Re: [NTG-context] TwoColumns in two different languages, with alternate text on even and odd page.

[Jean-Pierre Delange]

Hi again Marcello,

I was somehow busy and forgot that I made a promise to give you a better answer 
than I did about bilingual texts on two columns. If you need only to print some 
simple texts on two columns, there is no major issues. Problems occur when you 
want to print two texts in different languages, with a complex criticus 
apparatus.

But I've forgotten that (when I first began to work with ConTeXt, under the 
Pablo Rodriguez's eye), I was looking for a mechanism which allow to print 
greek/latin original text on the left column with a translation within the 
right column and a few series of footnotes in the footer. Notes dealing with 
the original text and different notes for the translation, given that if the 
original text was on the even page (left), a commentary might be print on the 
right page. The situation is clear : an even page with original language and 
translation (on two separate columns), and criticus apparatus in  the footer; 
an odd page which contains some material like a commentary. It is without 
saying that the translation has to follow the original text line by line, not 
in a strictly way, but almost, when the odd page may be much more flexible. I 
know there are some technical ways under LaTeX (Maieul Rouquette made some work 
on that), and with non-free software but I had forgotten that Wolfgang made a 
simple proposal with the Stream mechanism. I have to work on that, but I am 
currently working on other jobs.

See what Wolfgang wrote in the end of 2016 here on the wiki : 
http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Columns#Streams

There are two non-free softwares, just as CET (Critical Edition Typesetter) : 
http://karas.ch/cet/cetinfo.htm

or Classical Text Editor :
http://cte.oeaw.ac.at/

JP


- Mail original -
De: "Jean-Pierre Delange" 
À: "mailing list for ConTeXt users" 
Envoyé: Jeudi 27 Juillet 2017 12:11:05
Objet: Re: [NTG-context] TwoColumns in two different languages, with alternate 
text on even and odd page.

Hi Marcello,

As you say "this feature could be really interesting", but as far as I know, 
there are many issues to deal with, in order to print 2 columns on the same 
page with different languages (say : greek and latin). This is not only because 
of two languages (say : english and russian, or greek and german), but because 
such work needs some editing datas, like footnotes, or more complex type of 
single line footnotes. I'll give some samples in a few hours. I've written once 
to Maieul Rouquette (author of (xe)LaTeX and in charge or reledpar 
(http://distrib-coffee.ipsl.jussieu.fr/pub/mirrors/ctan/macros/latex/contrib/reledmac/reledpar.pdf)
 and reledmac 
(ftp://ftp.dante.de/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/reledmac/reledmac.pdf) 
LaTeX packages for asking him about complex "criticus apparatus" in edition 
issues for Classics. Pablo Rodriguez has a better knowledfge as me on these 
topics. 
In fact, there is currently no strictly satisfying way to deal with different 
texts with ConTeXt on even and odd page (or on the same page with two columns), 
except if there is no need of footnotes (or criticus apparatus), because some 
mismatches between texts with the second page. But, there is possibly some 
solutions with XML and CTX (which I didn't try) ?

JP



- Mail original -
De: "Marcello Urgo" 
À: ntg-context@ntg.nl
Envoyé: Samedi 22 Juillet 2017 19:14:03
Objet: Re: [NTG-context] TwoColumns in two different languages, with alternate 
text on even and odd page.


Dear Hans, 
I am also intersted in this issue. 
In the last years I am dealing with a multi-language technical lexicon. 
Hence, different languages refer to different columns, and if the languages are 
three or four, then it is better to go with two pages side-by-side. 
Nevertheless this seems a problem also in LaTeX redelpar (multiple columns are 
not supported). 
I tried to manage it with \linetable but without success ( 
https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/380923/synchronise-data-spanning-over-two-side-by-side-pages-in-context
 ) 
I think this feature could be really interesting because, according to my 
knowledge, ConTeXt is at present the best way to manage the publishing of XML 
data. 
Hence, this could be a useful tool to publish large sets of data. 
Thank you in advance 







Marcello Urgo, Ph.D. 
Assistant Professor 
Manufacturing and Production Systems Lab. 
Mechanical Engineering Department 
POLITECNICO DI MILANO 
Via La Masa, 1 - 20156 Milano 


Phone +39 02 2399 8521 
Fax +39 02 2399 8585 
tecnologie.mecc.polimi.it 
www.polimi.it 



This message may contain confidential and/or otherwise reserved information and 
is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you received this in error, 
please contact the sender and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your 
computer. Thank you. 
Il presente messaggio può contenere informazioni di carattere confidenziale e/o 
riservate ed è quindi ad uso 

Re: [NTG-context] TwoColumns in two different languages, with alternate text on even and odd page.

[Jean-Pierre Delange]

Hi Marcello,

As you say "this feature could be really interesting", but as far as I know, 
there are many issues to deal with, in order to print 2 columns on the same 
page with different languages (say : greek and latin). This is not only because 
of two languages (say : english and russian, or greek and german), but because 
such work needs some editing datas, like footnotes, or more complex type of 
single line footnotes. I'll give some samples in a few hours. I've written once 
to Maieul Rouquette (author of (xe)LaTeX and in charge or reledpar 
(http://distrib-coffee.ipsl.jussieu.fr/pub/mirrors/ctan/macros/latex/contrib/reledmac/reledpar.pdf)
 and reledmac 
(ftp://ftp.dante.de/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/reledmac/reledmac.pdf) 
LaTeX packages for asking him about complex "criticus apparatus" in edition 
issues for Classics. Pablo Rodriguez has a better knowledfge as me on these 
topics. 
In fact, there is currently no strictly satisfying way to deal with different 
texts with ConTeXt on even and odd page (or on the same page with two columns), 
except if there is no need of footnotes (or criticus apparatus), because some 
mismatches between texts with the second page. But, there is possibly some 
solutions with XML and CTX (which I didn't try) ?

JP



- Mail original -
De: "Marcello Urgo" 
À: ntg-context@ntg.nl
Envoyé: Samedi 22 Juillet 2017 19:14:03
Objet: Re: [NTG-context] TwoColumns in two different languages, with alternate 
text on even and odd page.


Dear Hans, 
I am also intersted in this issue. 
In the last years I am dealing with a multi-language technical lexicon. 
Hence, different languages refer to different columns, and if the languages are 
three or four, then it is better to go with two pages side-by-side. 
Nevertheless this seems a problem also in LaTeX redelpar (multiple columns are 
not supported). 
I tried to manage it with \linetable but without success ( 
https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/380923/synchronise-data-spanning-over-two-side-by-side-pages-in-context
 ) 
I think this feature could be really interesting because, according to my 
knowledge, ConTeXt is at present the best way to manage the publishing of XML 
data. 
Hence, this could be a useful tool to publish large sets of data. 
Thank you in advance 







Marcello Urgo, Ph.D. 
Assistant Professor 
Manufacturing and Production Systems Lab. 
Mechanical Engineering Department 
POLITECNICO DI MILANO 
Via La Masa, 1 - 20156 Milano 


Phone +39 02 2399 8521 
Fax +39 02 2399 8585 
tecnologie.mecc.polimi.it 
www.polimi.it 



This message may contain confidential and/or otherwise reserved information and 
is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you received this in error, 
please contact the sender and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your 
computer. Thank you. 
Il presente messaggio può contenere informazioni di carattere confidenziale e/o 
riservate ed è quindi ad uso esclusivo del destinatario. Nel caso aveste 
ricevuto questa e-mail per errore siete pregati di contattare immediatamente il 
mittente e di cancellare il messaggio ed i suoi allegati dal vostro computer . 
Grazie. 





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Re: [NTG-context] TwoColumns in two different languages, with alternate text on even and odd page.

[Marcello Urgo]

Dear Hans,
I am also intersted in this issue.
In the last years I am dealing with a multi-language technical lexicon.
Hence, different languages refer to different columns, and if the languages are 
three or four, then it is better to go with two pages side-by-side.
Nevertheless this seems a problem also in LaTeX redelpar (multiple columns are 
not supported).
I tried to manage it with \linetable but without success 
(https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/380923/synchronise-data-spanning-over-two-side-by-side-pages-in-context)
I think this feature could be really interesting because, according to my 
knowledge, ConTeXt is at present the best way to manage the publishing of XML 
data.
Hence, this could be a useful tool to publish large sets of data.
Thank you in advance


Marcello Urgo, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Manufacturing and Production Systems Lab.
Mechanical Engineering Department
POLITECNICO DI MILANO
Via La Masa, 1 - 20156 Milano

Phone +39 02 2399 8521
Fax +39 02 2399 8585
tecnologie.mecc.polimi.it
www.polimi.it

This message may contain confidential and/or otherwise reserved information and 
is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you received this in error, 
please contact the sender and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your 
computer. Thank you.
Il presente messaggio può contenere informazioni di carattere confidenziale e/o 
riservate ed è quindi ad uso esclusivo del destinatario. Nel caso aveste 
ricevuto questa e-mail  per errore siete pregati di contattare immediatamente 
il mittente e di cancellare il messaggio ed i suoi allegati dal vostro 
computer. Grazie.




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Re: [NTG-context] TwoColumns in two different languages, with alternate text on even and odd page.

[Jean-Pierre Delange]

Dear List,

I've made 2 mistakes : 
1) a false link to a PDF text;
2) Giving a large PDF text.
There is the link to Petr Březina paper on TeX and bilingual editions, that 
I've previously mentionned :
http://mujweb.cz/petr-brezina/libelli/bilingue.pdf

Certainly, as Wolfgang put it, there is probably some ways to achieve the goal 
mentionned in the title of this thread : 2 parallel texts synchronized on the 
same page, in 2 different languages. Maybe through the "stream" macros.

JP

- Mail original -
De: "Jean-Pierre Delange" 
À: "mailing list for ConTeXt users" 
Envoyé: Dimanche 27 Novembre 2016 12:27:31
Objet: Re: [NTG-context] TwoColumns in two different languages, with alternate 
text on even and odd page.


Dear List,
I fear I made a mistake with this paper's address : 
https://zimbra.free.fr/service/home/~/bilingue.pdf?auth=co=fr=253997=2
Please, read it as attached file.
Best,
JP
- Mail original -
De: "Jean-Pierre Delange" 
À: "mailing list for ConTeXt users" 
Envoyé: Samedi 26 Novembre 2016 18:51:11
Objet: Re: [NTG-context] TwoColumns in two different languages, with alternate 
text on even and odd page.


Hi Arthur, Hans, Pablo and other brave ConteXT users !

The only development I've found on the subject matter of this thread is from 
Petr Březina (but in French), with some examples of historical printing 
material (like Novum Testamentum Graece et Latine and M. Tullius Cicero, Pro A. 
Licinio Archia poeta oratio. Rede für den Dichter A. Licinius Archias. 
Lateinisch / Deutsch. Übersetzt und herausgegeben von Otto Schönberger, 
bibliographisch ergänzte Ausgabe 1990, printed in Germany 1996, Reclam, 
Stuttgart, ISBN 3-15-001268-6.

Petr Březina works with pure TeX, in order to imitate F. Didot in printing a 
bilingual text on 2 parallel paragraphs (see "Tâche n° 4", within his test, 
page 12).
At the end of this file, there are some examples (see specially pages 26,27,28) 
: 
https://zimbra.free.fr/service/home/~/bilingue.pdf?auth=co=fr=253997=2

  
- Mail original -
De: "Arthur Reutenauer" 
À: "Mailing list for ConTeXt users" 
Envoyé: Vendredi 25 Novembre 2016 23:33:59
Objet: Re: [NTG-context] TwoColumns in two different languages, with alternate 
text on even and odd page.

On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 01:16:28PM +0100, Jean-Pierre Delange wrote:
> I make a statement on a part of the Arthur's reply (" there are no real-life 
> examples of documents that use it") : in fact, there are rare examples of 
> such printing materials : scholar editing and printing of Ancient texts are 
> mainly (if I am right) such printing material (including Ancient Armenian or 
> Georgian liturgic hymns). 

  That’s not what I meant.  There is an experimental mechanism in
ConTeXt called streams that could be part of the solution to your
problem, but there are no publicly available documents that make use of
it.  The commands for creating and managing streams are in the file
page-str.mkiv; there are short examples at the end.

  I mention this because this is typically the kind of issue that need
serious input from users in order to become a meaningful feature.

Best,

Arthur
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Re: [NTG-context] TwoColumns in two different languages, with alternate text on even and odd page.

[Jean-Pierre Delange]

Hi Arthur, Hans, Pablo and other brave ConteXT users !

The only development I've found on the subject matter of this thread is from 
Petr Březina (but in French), with some examples of historical printing 
material (like Novum Testamentum Graece et Latine and M. Tullius Cicero, Pro A. 
Licinio Archia poeta oratio. Rede für den Dichter A. Licinius Archias. 
Lateinisch / Deutsch. Übersetzt und herausgegeben von Otto Schönberger, 
bibliographisch ergänzte Ausgabe 1990, printed in Germany 1996, Reclam, 
Stuttgart, ISBN 3-15-001268-6.

Petr Březina works with pure TeX, in order to imitate F. Didot in printing a 
bilingual text on 2 parallel paragraphs (see "Tâche n° 4", within his test, 
page 12).
At the end of this file, there are some examples (see specially pages 26,27,28) 
: 
https://zimbra.free.fr/service/home/~/bilingue.pdf?auth=co=fr=253997=2

  
- Mail original -
De: "Arthur Reutenauer" 
À: "Mailing list for ConTeXt users" 
Envoyé: Vendredi 25 Novembre 2016 23:33:59
Objet: Re: [NTG-context] TwoColumns in two different languages, with alternate 
text on even and odd page.

On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 01:16:28PM +0100, Jean-Pierre Delange wrote:
> I make a statement on a part of the Arthur's reply (" there are no real-life 
> examples of documents that use it") : in fact, there are rare examples of 
> such printing materials : scholar editing and printing of Ancient texts are 
> mainly (if I am right) such printing material (including Ancient Armenian or 
> Georgian liturgic hymns). 

  That’s not what I meant.  There is an experimental mechanism in
ConTeXt called streams that could be part of the solution to your
problem, but there are no publicly available documents that make use of
it.  The commands for creating and managing streams are in the file
page-str.mkiv; there are short examples at the end.

  I mention this because this is typically the kind of issue that need
serious input from users in order to become a meaningful feature.

Best,

Arthur
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Re: [NTG-context] TwoColumns in two different languages, with alternate text on even and odd page.

[Jean-Pierre Delange]

Hi Arthur,

Thanks a lot for your advise. I'm looking forward to the mechanism you're 
talking to (streams) and I don't give up for testing a useful kind of 
typesetting where the goal is to place 2 or 3 parallel paragraphs into columns 
on the even page (e. g. mainly greek & latin & modern language) with 'criticus 
apparatus' on different levels in the footnotes, with commentary on the odd 
page.

It seems that this combination with specific rulles for the even page (where 
the 2 or more parallel paragraphs are defined) aims some complex difficulties 
(because we have to synchronize the odd page text in facing the left page's 
text). There are some examples with LaTeX reledmac commands here : 
https://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/reledmac/examples (work 
done by Maieul Rouquette and alii). 

I've founded enumerations of such issues in order to compose a text on a double 
page with 'reledpar' and 'reledmac' packages in LaTeX here : 
http://distrib-coffee.ipsl.jussieu.fr/pub/mirrors/ctan/macros/latex/contrib/reledmac/reledpar.pdf
 (the document is 126 pages long). And for 'reledmac' package : 
ftp://ftp.dante.de/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/reledmac/reledmac.pdf (422 
pages).

I'll try to make some 'meaningful feature' step by step, in order to clarify 
what kind of issues we are confronting to. At the moment, the main issue would 
be to fix the parralel text (greek/latin) on the same columns on following 
pages in a page with footnotes (because the greek text - or latin - don't stay 
at the right place).

Well, whatever the whole problem is, thank you very much to help me to clarify 
the situation.
JP 

- Mail original -
De: "Arthur Reutenauer" 
À: "Mailing list for ConTeXt users" 
Envoyé: Vendredi 25 Novembre 2016 23:33:59
Objet: Re: [NTG-context] TwoColumns in two different languages, with alternate 
text on even and odd page.

On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 01:16:28PM +0100, Jean-Pierre Delange wrote:
> I make a statement on a part of the Arthur's reply (" there are no real-life 
> examples of documents that use it") : in fact, there are rare examples of 
> such printing materials : scholar editing and printing of Ancient texts are 
> mainly (if I am right) such printing material (including Ancient Armenian or 
> Georgian liturgic hymns). 

  That’s not what I meant.  There is an experimental mechanism in
ConTeXt called streams that could be part of the solution to your
problem, but there are no publicly available documents that make use of
it.  The commands for creating and managing streams are in the file
page-str.mkiv; there are short examples at the end.

  I mention this because this is typically the kind of issue that need
serious input from users in order to become a meaningful feature.

Best,

Arthur
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Re: [NTG-context] TwoColumns in two different languages, with alternate text on even and odd page.

[Arthur Reutenauer]

On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 01:16:28PM +0100, Jean-Pierre Delange wrote:
> I make a statement on a part of the Arthur's reply (" there are no real-life 
> examples of documents that use it") : in fact, there are rare examples of 
> such printing materials : scholar editing and printing of Ancient texts are 
> mainly (if I am right) such printing material (including Ancient Armenian or 
> Georgian liturgic hymns). 

  That’s not what I meant.  There is an experimental mechanism in
ConTeXt called streams that could be part of the solution to your
problem, but there are no publicly available documents that make use of
it.  The commands for creating and managing streams are in the file
page-str.mkiv; there are short examples at the end.

  I mention this because this is typically the kind of issue that need
serious input from users in order to become a meaningful feature.

Best,

Arthur
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Re: [NTG-context] TwoColumns in two different languages, with alternate text on even and odd page.

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 11/23/2016 10:58 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 11/23/2016 10:31 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>> [...]
>> I reported an issue about the distance in the before option from
>> \setupnote not being honoured when using paragraphed notes (many times,
>> being the last one
>> https://mailman.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2014/077280.html).
>>
>> In the attached PDF file, pages 1, 4 and 5 (maybe page 2 should be
>> included in that series) don’t respect
>> \setupnote[critical][before={\blank[big]}].
>>
>> So my question is: would the key "spacebefore" fix this issue?
> 
> you could try it ... with paragraph notes you'd better then use a bit 
> larger spacebefore because rendering them is kind of fuzzy (i.e. the 
> paragraph can only be rendered after the page is split so there is some 
> guess work involved (which can result in the blank space begin used as 
> overflow)

So, looking forward the next luatex binary being released for the Linux
32bit platform... ;-)

Many thanks for your help,

Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
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Re: [NTG-context] TwoColumns in two different languages, with alternate text on even and odd page.

[Hans Hagen]

On 11/23/2016 10:31 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:

On 11/22/2016 08:14 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:

[...]
Below is an example that should work with the latest beta. I introduced
two new keys 'spacebefore' and 'spaceinbetween' for notes. These are
needed when we have multiple note categories. In mixed columns this is
supported. In single column mode only with luatex experimental (so
patience is needed, but no one asked for this feature anyway).


Hans,

I reported an issue about the distance in the before option from
\setupnote not being honoured when using paragraphed notes (many times,
being the last one
https://mailman.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2014/077280.html).

In the attached PDF file, pages 1, 4 and 5 (maybe page 2 should be
included in that series) don’t respect
\setupnote[critical][before={\blank[big]}].

So my question is: would the key "spacebefore" fix this issue?


you could try it ... with paragraph notes you'd better then use a bit 
larger spacebefore because rendering them is kind of fuzzy (i.e. the 
paragraph can only be rendered after the page is split so there is some 
guess work involved (which can result in the blank space begin used as 
overflow)



-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___

Re: [NTG-context] TwoColumns in two different languages, with alternate text on even and odd page.

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 11/22/2016 08:14 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> [...]
> Below is an example that should work with the latest beta. I introduced 
> two new keys 'spacebefore' and 'spaceinbetween' for notes. These are 
> needed when we have multiple note categories. In mixed columns this is 
> supported. In single column mode only with luatex experimental (so 
> patience is needed, but no one asked for this feature anyway).

Hans,

I reported an issue about the distance in the before option from
\setupnote not being honoured when using paragraphed notes (many times,
being the last one
https://mailman.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2014/077280.html).

In the attached PDF file, pages 1, 4 and 5 (maybe page 2 should be
included in that series) don’t respect
\setupnote[critical][before={\blank[big]}].

So my question is: would the key "spacebefore" fix this issue?

Many thanks for your help,

Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk


hefestio-ctx-mailinglist.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
\showframe
\mainlanguage[la]
\setuplanguage[la][patterns={la,agr}]
\definefontfamily[mainface][serif][Minion Pro]
\setupbodyfont[mainface,12pt]
\setupbodyfontenvironment[default][em=italic]
\setupinterlinespace[line=3ex]
\setuplinenumbering[location=left, step=5, method=section, style=\tfxx, align=left, distance=1em, width=0.4em]
\setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided,location=]

\definelinenote[comment]
\setupnote[comment][paragraph=yes, rule=off, split=verystrict, scope=page, inbetween={\hskip1.5em plus.15em minus.15em}]
\setupnotation[comment][numbercommand=,alternative=serried,distance=.5em,width=broad,compress=yes,compressseparator=]

\definelinenote[critical]
\setupnote[critical][paragraph=yes, rule=off, split=verystrict, scope=page, inbetween=\hskip1.5em, before={\blank[big]}]
\setupnotation[critical][numbercommand=,alternative=serried,distance=.5em,width=broad,compress=yes,compressseparator=]

\def\variante#1#2{#1\critical{#1] #2}}
\def\comentario#1#2{#1\comment{#2}}

\starttext

\title{Ἰωάννου γραμματικοῦ τοῦ Τζέτζου\\Τὰ πρὸ Ὁμήρου}

\startlinenumbering
Ἀργαλεοῦ πολέμοιο \variante{μέγαν κλόνον}{κακὸν πόνον Jac.} Ἰλιακοῖο\\
ἔννεπε, Καλλιόπεια, ὑφ᾽ ἡμετέρῃσιν ἀοιδαῖς,\\
ἀρχῆθε δ᾽ ἐπαέιδε καὶ ἐς τέλος ἐξερέεινε,\\
ἐξ \variante{ὅτεο}{ὅτεω P, ὅτε ὁ Jac.} Πρίαμος λοιγὸν Τρώεσσι φυτεύει\\
\comentario{δύσπαριν}{δύσπαριν, cf. {\em Il.} 3.39, 13.769 (δύσπαρι). Cf. et {\em Sud.} δ, 1681: Δύσπαρι· ἐπὶ κακῷ ὠνομασμένε, οἷον ζήσας ὡς Πάρις, δυσώνυμε. } οὐλόμενον, \comentario{ἀρχὴν πολέμοιο κακοῖο}{ἀρχὴν πολέμοιο κακοῖο cf. {\em Il.} 8.374: Ἀλεξάνδροιο, τοῦ εἵνεκα νεῖκος ὄρωρε.},\\
τὸν νόος οὐκ ἐρέεινεν Ὁμήρου κυδαλίμοιο.\\
Ἔννεπε δ᾽ Ἀργείης Ἑλένης ἐρόεσσαν ὀπωπήν,\\
πῶς τέ \variante{μιν}{μέν A} ἦγεν Ἀλέξανδρος \variante{Σπάρτηθεν Τροίην}{Σπάρτηθεν ἐς Τροίην P, Σπαρτῆθε Τροΐην Jac.}.\\
Ἔννεπε δὲ πλόον Ἑλλήνων καὶ νῆας ἁπάσας·\\
εἰπὲ δὲ Πηλείδαο κότον καὶ ὄλεθρον Ἀχαιῶν,\\
Σαρπηδόντος Πατρόκλου τε καὶ Ἕκτορος οἶτον·\\
εἰπὲ δὲ Πενθεσίλειαν, \comentario{κούρην ἀντιάνειραν}{κούρην ἀντιάνειραν cf. {\em Il.} 3.189, 6.186 et Nonnus, {\em Dyon.} 48.248.}.\\
Ἔννεπε δ᾽ Αἰθιόπων στρατόν, \variante{υἱέα τ᾽}{υἷά τε V, υἷα δ᾽ A} Ἠριγενείης.\\
Φράζεο δ᾽ Αἰακίδαο πότμον \variante{δακρυόεντα}{ὀκρυόεντα V}·\\
Εὐρύπυλόν τε ἄειδε καὶ υἱέα Αἰακίδαο·\\
μαντείας δ᾽ Ἑλένου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδροιο φονῆα.\\
Εἰπὲ δὲ καὶ πτολίπορθον Ἐπείου \variante{δούριον}{δούρειον A, δούρεον Jac.} ἵππον,\\
εἴσοκεν ἠϊστωσε πελώρια τείχεα Τροίης.\\
Ταῦτά μοι εὐπατέρεια, Διὸς τέκος, ἔννεπε Μοῦσα.\\
\variante{Ἤτοι}{ἥ τοι Schir.} μὲν Τροίη πολέμοις \variante{προτέροις}{πρότερον Bekk.} μογέεσκε,\\
πέρσε γὰρ αὐτὴν Ἡρακλέος μένος ἀγριοθύμου·\\
δουρὶ δ᾽ αὖ \variante{αἱ}{om. Jac.} Σκυθόμητρες ἐπέδραμον εἶτα γυναῖκες,\\
\comentario{θυγατέρες Ἄρηος}{θυγατέρες Ἄρηος cf. Hdt. 4.114 ss., 

Re: [NTG-context] TwoColumns in two different languages, with alternate text on even and odd page.

[Jean-Pierre Delange]

Hi Hans,

Thank you very much Hans for your help. I'll soon try your code and I'll report 
sooner as possible.
A sample of some work I've referred to, using two columns, a rich criticus 
apparatus in greek, latin and georgian, is : "Les Hymnes de la Résurrection. I. 
Hymnographie liturgique géorgienne, introduction, traduction et annotation des 
textes du Sinaï 18 (Sources liturgiques, 3), Paris, 2000" (see here : 
https://rbecs.org/2015/05/06/hr/#more-3249)
Unfortunately, the book is not under my hand.

JP


- Mail original -
De: "Hans Hagen" 
À: ntg-context@ntg.nl
Envoyé: Mardi 22 Novembre 2016 20:14:45
Objet: Re: [NTG-context] TwoColumns in two different languages, with alternate 
text on even and odd page.

On 11/18/2016 1:16 PM, Jean-Pierre Delange wrote:

> I make a statement on a part of the Arthur's reply (" there are no real-life 
> examples of documents that use it") : in fact, there are rare examples of 
> such printing materials : scholar editing and printing of Ancient texts are 
> mainly (if I am right) such printing material (including Ancient Armenian or 
> Georgian liturgic hymns).
>
> An example of such a book : on the even page you read a 'twocolumns' text 
> (say : Greek text with its Latin translation) with there own page setting, 
> including Stephanus apparatus in the footer, and several levels of footnotes 
> within the same footer. Commentaries (in English, French, German, usw) and 
> the like are on the odd page. The average (or regular) situation seems to be 
> less complicated : Greek or Latin text on the even page and translation on 
> the odd page. With Pablo Rodriguez help (actually, this is mainly Pablo's 
> work) I have tried to figure such a goal. But before setting up the even/odd 
> page, there is an issue which one has to fix: the text on two columns is well 
> fitted on the first page, but not on the following pages. How to fix this 
> issue with Greek text on the left column and Latin Text on the right one ? 
> See the mismatch between texts on the second page in the sample below .
> Thank you very much for your remarks and advices.

Below is an example that should work with the latest beta. I introduced 
two new keys 'spacebefore' and 'spaceinbetween' for notes. These are 
needed when we have multiple note categories. In mixed columns this is 
supported. In single column mode only with luatex experimental (so 
patience is needed, but no one asked for this feature anyway).

\setupnotes[spacebefore=4*line]
\setupnotes[spaceinbetween=line]

\starttext


 \setupnote [footnote][before=,after=]
 \definenote[toofnote][before=,after=]

 \dorecurse{100}{
 test #1.a\footnote{note #1}
 test #1.b\toofnote{eton #1}
 \par}

 \page

 \setuplanguage[agr][patterns={agr,la}]

 \mainlanguage[agr] % Greek as main language

 \definefallbackfamily [mainface] [serif] [GFS Didot] 
[preset=range:greek]
 \definefontfamily [mainface] [serif] [TeX Gyre Pagella]

 \setupbodyfont[mainface] % ,7.8pt]

 \setuplayout[header=2cm,footer=2cm]

 \setupnotes[compress=yes]
 \setupnotations[alternative=serried]

 \definenote[aNote]
 \definenote[bNote]
 \definenote[cNote]
 \definenote[dNote]

 \setupnote[aNote][before=,after=]
 \setupnote[bNote][before=,after=]
 \setupnote[cNote][before=,after=]
 \setupnote[dNote][before=,after=]

 \def\ANote#1#2{#1\aNote{#1] #2}}
 \def\BNote#1#2{#1\bNote{#1] #2}}
 \def\CNote#1#2{#1\cNote{#1] #2}}
 \def\DNote#1#2{#1\dNote{#1] #2}}

 \setupalign[hz, hanging]
 \setuptolerance[strict]

\setupnotes[spacebefore=4*line]
\setupnotes[spaceinbetween=]

 % \setuplinenumbering[step=5, location=inright, 
distance=1ex,align=center, width=0.5em]

 \definemargindata[Stephanus][location=inner, distance=2ex,style=\em]

 % \setupbodyfont[mainface,7.8pt]

 \start\fr % some text in French
 Définir un `apparat critique' et le mettre en page avec un 
traitement de texte
 courant est un véritable casse-tête. LaTeX et ConTeXt offrent des 
outils
 d'automatisation encore assez mal connus dans la communauté des 
éditeurs,
 notamment dans l'édition savante, pour la collation et la 
comparaison de textes
 médiévaux.
 \stop

 \blank

 \start\en % some text in English
 {\em It is not very easy to define a `criticus apparatus' with some 
current tools
 (like Microsoft Office Word or LibreOffice). Maybe \ConTeXt offers 
some ways that
 seem easier, in order to improve clear and precise printing.}
 \stop

 \dorecurse{4}{
 \startmixedcolumns[n=2, balance=yes]
 \Stephanus{1a} Ὁμώνυμα λέγεται ὧν ὄνομα μόνον κοινόν, ὁ δὲ 
κατὰ τοὔνομα
 λόγος τῆς οὐσίας ἕτερος, οἷον ζῷον ὅ τε ἄνθρωπος καὶ τὸ 
γεγραμμένον•
 τούτων γὰρ ὄνομα μόνον κοινόν, ὁ δὲ κατὰ τοὔνομα λόγος τῆς 
οὐσίας ἕτερος•
 ἐὰν γὰρ ἀποδιδῷ τις τί ἐστιν αὐτῶν ἑκατέρῳ τὸ ζῴῳ εἶναι, 

Re: [NTG-context] TwoColumns in two different languages, with alternate text on even and odd page.

[Hans Hagen]

On 11/18/2016 1:16 PM, Jean-Pierre Delange wrote:


I make a statement on a part of the Arthur's reply (" there are no real-life 
examples of documents that use it") : in fact, there are rare examples of such 
printing materials : scholar editing and printing of Ancient texts are mainly (if I am 
right) such printing material (including Ancient Armenian or Georgian liturgic hymns).

An example of such a book : on the even page you read a 'twocolumns' text (say 
: Greek text with its Latin translation) with there own page setting, including 
Stephanus apparatus in the footer, and several levels of footnotes within the 
same footer. Commentaries (in English, French, German, usw) and the like are on 
the odd page. The average (or regular) situation seems to be less complicated : 
Greek or Latin text on the even page and translation on the odd page. With 
Pablo Rodriguez help (actually, this is mainly Pablo's work) I have tried to 
figure such a goal. But before setting up the even/odd page, there is an issue 
which one has to fix: the text on two columns is well fitted on the first page, 
but not on the following pages. How to fix this issue with Greek text on the 
left column and Latin Text on the right one ? See the mismatch between texts on 
the second page in the sample below .
Thank you very much for your remarks and advices.


Below is an example that should work with the latest beta. I introduced 
two new keys 'spacebefore' and 'spaceinbetween' for notes. These are 
needed when we have multiple note categories. In mixed columns this is 
supported. In single column mode only with luatex experimental (so 
patience is needed, but no one asked for this feature anyway).


\setupnotes[spacebefore=4*line]
\setupnotes[spaceinbetween=line]

\starttext


\setupnote [footnote][before=,after=]
\definenote[toofnote][before=,after=]

\dorecurse{100}{
test #1.a\footnote{note #1}
test #1.b\toofnote{eton #1}
\par}

\page

\setuplanguage[agr][patterns={agr,la}]

\mainlanguage[agr] % Greek as main language

\definefallbackfamily [mainface] [serif] [GFS Didot] 
[preset=range:greek]

\definefontfamily [mainface] [serif] [TeX Gyre Pagella]

\setupbodyfont[mainface] % ,7.8pt]

\setuplayout[header=2cm,footer=2cm]

\setupnotes[compress=yes]
\setupnotations[alternative=serried]

\definenote[aNote]
\definenote[bNote]
\definenote[cNote]
\definenote[dNote]

\setupnote[aNote][before=,after=]
\setupnote[bNote][before=,after=]
\setupnote[cNote][before=,after=]
\setupnote[dNote][before=,after=]

\def\ANote#1#2{#1\aNote{#1] #2}}
\def\BNote#1#2{#1\bNote{#1] #2}}
\def\CNote#1#2{#1\cNote{#1] #2}}
\def\DNote#1#2{#1\dNote{#1] #2}}

\setupalign[hz, hanging]
\setuptolerance[strict]

\setupnotes[spacebefore=4*line]
\setupnotes[spaceinbetween=]

% \setuplinenumbering[step=5, location=inright, 
distance=1ex,align=center, width=0.5em]


\definemargindata[Stephanus][location=inner, distance=2ex,style=\em]

% \setupbodyfont[mainface,7.8pt]

\start\fr % some text in French
Définir un `apparat critique' et le mettre en page avec un 
traitement de texte
courant est un véritable casse-tête. LaTeX et ConTeXt offrent des 
outils
d'automatisation encore assez mal connus dans la communauté des 
éditeurs,
notamment dans l'édition savante, pour la collation et la 
comparaison de textes

médiévaux.
\stop

\blank

\start\en % some text in English
{\em It is not very easy to define a `criticus apparatus' with some 
current tools
(like Microsoft Office Word or LibreOffice). Maybe \ConTeXt offers 
some ways that

seem easier, in order to improve clear and precise printing.}
\stop

\dorecurse{4}{
\startmixedcolumns[n=2, balance=yes]
\Stephanus{1a} Ὁμώνυμα λέγεται ὧν ὄνομα μόνον κοινόν, ὁ δὲ 
κατὰ τοὔνομα
λόγος τῆς οὐσίας ἕτερος, οἷον ζῷον ὅ τε ἄνθρωπος καὶ τὸ 
γεγραμμένον•
τούτων γὰρ ὄνομα μόνον κοινόν, ὁ δὲ κατὰ τοὔνομα λόγος τῆς 
οὐσίας ἕτερος•
ἐὰν γὰρ ἀποδιδῷ τις τί ἐστιν αὐτῶν ἑκατέρῳ τὸ ζῴῳ εἶναι, 
ἴδιον ἑκατέρου
λόγον ἀποδώσει. συνώνυμα δὲ λέγεται ὧν τό τε ὄνομα κοινὸν 
καὶ ὁ κατὰ
τοὔνομα λόγος τῆς οὐσίας ὁ αὐτός, οἷον ζῷον ὅ τε ἄνθρωπος 
καὶ ὁ βοῦς•
τούτων γὰρ ἑκάτερον κοινῷ ὀνόματι προσαγορεύεται ζῷον, καὶ 
ὁ λόγος δὲ τῆς
οὐσίας ὁ αὐτός• ἐὰν γὰρ ἀποδιδῷ τις τὸν ἑκατέρου λόγον τί 
ἐστιν αὐτῶν

ἑκατέρῳ τὸ ζῴῳ εἶναι, τὸν αὐτὸν λόγον ἀποδώσει.
\column
\startlinenumbering[continue]
Aequivoca dicuntur quorum \CNote{nomen}{first note} 
solum commune

est, secundum nomen vero \ANote{substantiae}{second note}
\ANote{ratio}{second note} diversa, ut animal 
\DNote{homo}{third
note} et quod pingitur. Horum enim solum nomen commune 
est, secundum
nomen vero 

[NTG-context] TwoColumns in two different languages, with alternate text on even and odd page.

[Jean-Pierre Delange]

Hi Arthur and Hans,

I make a statement on a part of the Arthur's reply (" there are no real-life 
examples of documents that use it") : in fact, there are rare examples of such 
printing materials : scholar editing and printing of Ancient texts are mainly 
(if I am right) such printing material (including Ancient Armenian or Georgian 
liturgic hymns). 

An example of such a book : on the even page you read a 'twocolumns' text (say 
: Greek text with its Latin translation) with there own page setting, including 
Stephanus apparatus in the footer, and several levels of footnotes within the 
same footer. Commentaries (in English, French, German, usw) and the like are on 
the odd page. The average (or regular) situation seems to be less complicated : 
Greek or Latin text on the even page and translation on the odd page. With 
Pablo Rodriguez help (actually, this is mainly Pablo's work) I have tried to 
figure such a goal. But before setting up the even/odd page, there is an issue 
which one has to fix: the text on two columns is well fitted on the first page, 
but not on the following pages. How to fix this issue with Greek text on the 
left column and Latin Text on the right one ? See the mismatch between texts on 
the second page in the sample below .
Thank you very much for your remarks and advices.
JP

\setuplanguage[agr][patterns={agr,la}]
\mainlanguage[agr] % Greek as main language
 \definefallbackfamily [mainface] [serif] [GFS Didot] [preset=range:greek]
\definefontfamily [mainface] [serif] [TeX Gyre Pagella]
\setuplayout[header=2cm, footer=2cm]
  \setupnotes[compress=yes]
\setupnotations[alternative=serried]
\definelinenote[aNote]
\definelinenote[bNote][n=2]
\definelinenote[cNote][n=3]
\definelinenote[dNote][paragraph=yes]
\def\ANote#1#2{#1\aNote{#1] #2}}
\def\BNote#1#2{#1\bNote{#1] #2}}
\def\CNote#1#2{#1\cNote{#1] #2}}
\def\DNote#1#2{#1\dNote{#1] #2}}
\setupalign[hz, hanging]
\setuptolerance[strict]
\setuplinenumbering[step=5, location=inright, distance=1ex,
 align=center, width=0.5em]
\definemargindata[Stephanus][location=inner, distance=2ex,
 style=\em]
\setupbodyfont[mainface, 7.8pt]
   % \definecolumnset[example][n=2, balance=yes]
\starttext
\start\fr % some text in French
Définir un `apparat critique' et le mettre en page avec un
traitement de texte courant est un véritable casse-tête. LaTeX et
ConTeXt offrent des outils d'automatisation encore assez mal connus
dans la communauté des éditeurs, notamment dans l'édition
savante, pour la collation et la comparaison de textes
médiévaux.\par
\stop
\blank
\start\en % some text in English
{\em It is not very easy to define a `criticus apparatus' with some current 
tools (like Microsoft Office Word or LibreOffice). Maybe \ConTeXt offers some 
ways that seem easier, in order to improve clear and precise printing.}
  \stop


\dorecurse{4}{\startcolumns[n=2, balance=yes]
\Stephanus{1a} Ὁμώνυμα λέγεται ὧν ὄνομα μόνον κοινόν, ὁ δὲ κατὰ τοὔνομα 
λόγος τῆς οὐσίας ἕτερος, οἷον ζῷον ὅ τε ἄνθρωπος καὶ τὸ γεγραμμένον• τούτων γὰρ 
ὄνομα μόνον κοινόν, ὁ δὲ κατὰ τοὔνομα λόγος τῆς οὐσίας ἕτερος• ἐὰν γὰρ ἀποδιδῷ 
τις τί ἐστιν αὐτῶν ἑκατέρῳ τὸ ζῴῳ εἶναι, ἴδιον ἑκατέρου λόγον ἀποδώσει. 
συνώνυμα δὲ λέγεται ὧν τό τε ὄνομα κοινὸν καὶ ὁ κατὰ τοὔνομα λόγος τῆς οὐσίας ὁ 
αὐτός, οἷον ζῷον ὅ τε ἄνθρωπος καὶ ὁ βοῦς• τούτων γὰρ ἑκάτερον κοινῷ ὀνόματι 
προσαγορεύεται ζῷον, καὶ ὁ λόγος δὲ τῆς οὐσίας ὁ αὐτός• ἐὰν γὰρ ἀποδιδῷ τις τὸν 
ἑκατέρου λόγον τί ἐστιν αὐτῶν ἑκατέρῳ τὸ ζῴῳ εἶναι, τὸν αὐτὸν λόγον ἀποδώσει.  

\column

\startlinenumbering[continue]
Aequivoca dicuntur quorum \CNote{nomen}{first note} solum
commune est, secundum nomen vero \ANote{substantiae}{second note}
\ANote{ratio}{second note} diversa, ut animal
\DNote{homo}{third note} et quod pingitur. Horum enim solum nomen commune 
est, secundum nomen vero substantiae ratio diversa; si enim quis assignet quid 
est utrique eorum quo sint animalia, propriam assignabit utriusque rationem. 
Univoca vero dicuntur quorum et nomen commune est et secundum nomen eadem 
substantiae ratio, ut animal homo atque bos.

\stoplinenumbering

\stopcolumns}
\stoptext



- Mail original -
De: "Arthur Reutenauer" 
À: "Mailing list for ConTeXt users" 
Envoyé: Mardi 15 Novembre 2016 17:39:40
Objet: Re: [NTG-context] Wrtiting in two languages

> 2) Second situation : you want to print a translation on the same page (say 
> the even page) as the original Greek text, with the commentary (or whatever) 
> on the odd page. I fear there is no way to do this at the time (that was 
> impossible with CTX early in 2016). I didn't retry these former weeks...

  Actually, there has been, for quite a long time, a mechanism called
streams in ConTeXt that aimed at doing exactly that.  It’s incomplete
and there are no real-life