Re: Fwd: [users] Re: Languages
BTW: IMHO there was a similar discussion if and how to integrate the Catalan language variante spoken in Valencian beside the normal Catalan one. At the end we have enabled and integrated translation for Valencian - also because there was a strong support to do all the work - as you can see here: http://download.openoffice.org/other.html Marcus Am 09/04/2011 12:23 AM, schrieb Rob Weir: OK. Before someone starts saying nasty things about Garibaldi, it would be good to state some things I hope we all agree on: 1) What constitutes a language is as much a political and cultural question as a linguistic one. No sense debating it here. 2) OpenOffice.org has a rich history of offering support for many languages, many more than commercial office suites do. This is something we take pride in. This includes many minority languages, and even artificial languages like Esperanto. 3) If a group of volunteers wants to enable OpenOffice.org for a new language, we should point them to information on how to do this. We don't need to volunteer to do the translation, or use the translation, or even agree on the status of the language. But we should help someone understand how to do this. Remember, this might help lead to a future volunteer for the standard Italian translation as well. Thanks! -Rob On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Dale Erwind...@casaerwin.org wrote: On 9/2/2011 10:23 PM, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: Hi Dale; With due respect to Italy's cultural richness (which I so much admire being italian myself but not only because of that), Neapolitan is classified as a dialect, not a language, for good reasons. Compared to standard italian you use the same character set and gramatical rules. Furthermore the computer related terms that OpenOffice uses are the same as in standard italian. My recomendation is just to add a dictionary with Naepolitan terms to the standard italian dictionary. best regards, Pedro, Spoken like a true northern Italian bigot... with all due respect. Please note I did not call you a northern Italian bigot... I said you speak like one. Maybe you are just misinformed. I agree that Neapolitan is a dialect because by definition a dialect is a LANGUAGE which is not the principal language of the country in which it is spoken and it is relegated to a particular region of that country. But it IS a language and is recognized as such by Wikipedia and by the Italian Province of Catania and has a rich literary presence spanning several centuries. For a brief time, from 1442 to 1458, Neapolitan was the official language of the Kingdom of Naples. It was supplanted by the Tuscan of Dante and Boccaccio which by 1500 had become the accepted literary language of Italy and generally referred to as Italian, but there was no official language called Italian until the unification of Italy. Although the official date of the unification is 1849, the Kingdom of Naples did not become part of the Kingdom of Italy until 1861. At that time Naples was possibly the richest city in the world and it was at this point that 80 million ducats were removed from the Bank of Naples and moved to the Bank of Italy causing the collapse of the entire southern Italian economy. It also gave rise to a bigotry in northern Italy which empowered them to deride the southern Italians because of their poverty (which they, the northerners, had caused). For this reason, it became unfashionable to speak Neapolitan. They call it the unification of Italy. I call it the rape of Naples. As for having the same character set as Italian, so does French, Spanish, Portughese, Rumanian and English. Are they also dialects? Of course not. And Neapolitan has its own grammar, too. There may be some similarities to Italian grammar, just as there are in French, Spanish, Portughese and any other Romance language. Here are but a few Neapolitan Grammar books: GRAMMATICA DEL DIALETTO NAPOLETANO compilata dal Dottor Raffaele Capozzoli; Luigi Chiurazzi Editore, 1889 'A LENGUA 'E PULECENELLA - GRAMMATICA NAPOLETANA Carlo Iandolo; Franco di Mauro Editore, 1994 IL NAPOLETANO PARLATO E SCRITTO Con Note di grammatica storica Nicola De Blasi - Luigi Imperatore; Libreria Dante Descartes, 2000 FACILE FACILE - Impariama la lingua napoletana - Grammatica Colomba Rosaria Andolfi; Kairos Edizioni - Napoli, 2008 MODERN NEAPOLITAN GRAMMAR - GRAMMATICA NAPOLETANA ODIERNA D. Erwin - M. T. Fedele Lulu Press, 2011 -- Dale Erwin Lurigancho, Lima 15 PERU http://leather.casaerwin.org === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.26, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18240) http://www.pctools.com/ ===
Re: Fwd: [users] Re: Languages
Rob Weir wrote: 1) What constitutes a language is as much a political and cultural question as a linguistic one. No sense debating it here. Ultimately what matters to us is whether ISO assigned a code to the language or not, so a technical issue; as I wrote earlier, it did in ISO 639-2 (Neapolitan = nap); and this is all that matters to us. I definitely agree people should not debate non-technical issues on this list. 3) If a group of volunteers wants to enable OpenOffice.org for a new language, we should point them to information on how to do this. Sure. I did this in my earlier message, but I've now found the exact links and I'm posting them here so that Dale can generate the locale data and take the first step: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/How_to_submit_new_Locale_Data http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Adding_a_new_language_or_locale (wiki is in the process of being migrated, but these pages are still available). I investigated the locale creation and apparently in the Locale Generator Dale will have to choose Napoletano-Calabrese (it's their hard-coded definition, again for technical reasons). Then Dale will be stuck at the issue creation phase, since BugZilla is being migrated too. This is why I wrote that it's probably best to contact Eike Rathke directly, since these issues used to be assigned to him. I've taken the liberty to CC him explicitly, sorry Eike if you preferred otherwise. And good luck with bringing a new language to OpenOffice.org! Regards, Andrea.
Re: Fwd: [users] Re: Languages
Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: Neapolitan is classified as a dialect, not a language, for good reasons. It's in ISO 639-2 so it's a language, and it's distinct from Italian. Among the local languages spoken in Italy, we already fully support the four variants of Sardinian according to ISO 639-3 (Campidanese, Gallurese, Logudorese, Sassarese) and Friulian according to ISO 639-2. The first step would be to add locale data to OpenOffice.org so that OpenOffice.org knows that a Neapolitan language exists. Once that's in place, you can translate the interface and even create dictionaries. Eike Rathke is on this list and he's probably the most knowledgeable person about this topic, so I'll stop here. I remember there were issues with mapping 3-letter codes (like nap, ISO 639-2 for Neapolitan) to the conventions used by OpenOffice.org, but this could be a problem from the past. My recomendation is just to add a dictionary with Naepolitan terms to the standard italian dictionary. This won't work for regional variants of Italian: it will break spell checking and/or interoperability. At least in this case, where we are speaking of a separate language, the only viable solution is to make it known to OpenOffice.org by creating locale data for it. Regards, Andrea.
Re: Fwd: [users] Re: Languages
On 9/2/2011 10:23 PM, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: Hi Dale; With due respect to Italy's cultural richness (which I so much admire being italian myself but not only because of that), Neapolitan is classified as a dialect, not a language, for good reasons. Compared to standard italian you use the same character set and gramatical rules. Furthermore the computer related terms that OpenOffice uses are the same as in standard italian. My recomendation is just to add a dictionary with Naepolitan terms to the standard italian dictionary. best regards, Pedro, Spoken like a true northern Italian bigot... with all due respect. Please note I did not call you a northern Italian bigot... I said you speak like one. Maybe you are just misinformed. I agree that Neapolitan is a dialect because by definition a dialect is a LANGUAGE which is not the principal language of the country in which it is spoken and it is relegated to a particular region of that country. But it IS a language and is recognized as such by Wikipedia and by the Italian Province of Catania and has a rich literary presence spanning several centuries. For a brief time, from 1442 to 1458, Neapolitan was the official language of the Kingdom of Naples. It was supplanted by the Tuscan of Dante and Boccaccio which by 1500 had become the accepted literary language of Italy and generally referred to as Italian, but there was no official language called Italian until the unification of Italy. Although the official date of the unification is 1849, the Kingdom of Naples did not become part of the Kingdom of Italy until 1861. At that time Naples was possibly the richest city in the world and it was at this point that 80 million ducats were removed from the Bank of Naples and moved to the Bank of Italy causing the collapse of the entire southern Italian economy. It also gave rise to a bigotry in northern Italy which empowered them to deride the southern Italians because of their poverty (which they, the northerners, had caused). For this reason, it became unfashionable to speak Neapolitan. They call it the unification of Italy. I call it the rape of Naples. As for having the same character set as Italian, so does French, Spanish, Portughese, Rumanian and English. Are they also dialects? Of course not. And Neapolitan has its own grammar, too. There may be some similarities to Italian grammar, just as there are in French, Spanish, Portughese and any other Romance language. Here are but a few Neapolitan Grammar books: GRAMMATICA DEL DIALETTO NAPOLETANO compilata dal Dottor Raffaele Capozzoli; Luigi Chiurazzi Editore, 1889 'A LENGUA 'E PULECENELLA - GRAMMATICA NAPOLETANA Carlo Iandolo; Franco di Mauro Editore, 1994 IL NAPOLETANO PARLATO E SCRITTO Con Note di grammatica storica Nicola De Blasi - Luigi Imperatore; Libreria Dante Descartes, 2000 FACILE FACILE - Impariama la lingua napoletana - Grammatica Colomba Rosaria Andolfi; Kairos Edizioni - Napoli, 2008 MODERN NEAPOLITAN GRAMMAR - GRAMMATICA NAPOLETANA ODIERNA D. Erwin - M. T. Fedele Lulu Press, 2011 -- Dale Erwin Lurigancho, Lima 15 PERU http://leather.casaerwin.org === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.26, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18240) http://www.pctools.com/ ===
Re: Fwd: [users] Re: Languages
Hi Andrea and Dale; Ugh... I'll take back everything I wrote ... sorry. The classification between languages or dialects in Italy, is something that I know very well not to get into. Yes, I've had my doze of Naepolitan, Friulian, Roman, and Triestin. cheers, Pedro. --- On Sat, 9/3/11, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@openoffice.org wrote: Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: Neapolitan is classified as a dialect, not a language, for good reasons. It's in ISO 639-2 so it's a language, and it's distinct from Italian. Among the local languages spoken in Italy, we already fully support the four variants of Sardinian according to ISO 639-3 (Campidanese, Gallurese, Logudorese, Sassarese) and Friulian according to ISO 639-2. The first step would be to add locale data to OpenOffice.org so that OpenOffice.org knows that a Neapolitan language exists. Once that's in place, you can translate the interface and even create dictionaries. Eike Rathke is on this list and he's probably the most knowledgeable person about this topic, so I'll stop here. I remember there were issues with mapping 3-letter codes (like nap, ISO 639-2 for Neapolitan) to the conventions used by OpenOffice.org, but this could be a problem from the past. My recomendation is just to add a dictionary with Naepolitan terms to the standard italian dictionary. This won't work for regional variants of Italian: it will break spell checking and/or interoperability. At least in this case, where we are speaking of a separate language, the only viable solution is to make it known to OpenOffice.org by creating locale data for it. Regards, Andrea.
Re: Fwd: [users] Re: Languages
OK. Before someone starts saying nasty things about Garibaldi, it would be good to state some things I hope we all agree on: 1) What constitutes a language is as much a political and cultural question as a linguistic one. No sense debating it here. 2) OpenOffice.org has a rich history of offering support for many languages, many more than commercial office suites do. This is something we take pride in. This includes many minority languages, and even artificial languages like Esperanto. 3) If a group of volunteers wants to enable OpenOffice.org for a new language, we should point them to information on how to do this. We don't need to volunteer to do the translation, or use the translation, or even agree on the status of the language. But we should help someone understand how to do this. Remember, this might help lead to a future volunteer for the standard Italian translation as well. Thanks! -Rob On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Dale Erwin d...@casaerwin.org wrote: On 9/2/2011 10:23 PM, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: Hi Dale; With due respect to Italy's cultural richness (which I so much admire being italian myself but not only because of that), Neapolitan is classified as a dialect, not a language, for good reasons. Compared to standard italian you use the same character set and gramatical rules. Furthermore the computer related terms that OpenOffice uses are the same as in standard italian. My recomendation is just to add a dictionary with Naepolitan terms to the standard italian dictionary. best regards, Pedro, Spoken like a true northern Italian bigot... with all due respect. Please note I did not call you a northern Italian bigot... I said you speak like one. Maybe you are just misinformed. I agree that Neapolitan is a dialect because by definition a dialect is a LANGUAGE which is not the principal language of the country in which it is spoken and it is relegated to a particular region of that country. But it IS a language and is recognized as such by Wikipedia and by the Italian Province of Catania and has a rich literary presence spanning several centuries. For a brief time, from 1442 to 1458, Neapolitan was the official language of the Kingdom of Naples. It was supplanted by the Tuscan of Dante and Boccaccio which by 1500 had become the accepted literary language of Italy and generally referred to as Italian, but there was no official language called Italian until the unification of Italy. Although the official date of the unification is 1849, the Kingdom of Naples did not become part of the Kingdom of Italy until 1861. At that time Naples was possibly the richest city in the world and it was at this point that 80 million ducats were removed from the Bank of Naples and moved to the Bank of Italy causing the collapse of the entire southern Italian economy. It also gave rise to a bigotry in northern Italy which empowered them to deride the southern Italians because of their poverty (which they, the northerners, had caused). For this reason, it became unfashionable to speak Neapolitan. They call it the unification of Italy. I call it the rape of Naples. As for having the same character set as Italian, so does French, Spanish, Portughese, Rumanian and English. Are they also dialects? Of course not. And Neapolitan has its own grammar, too. There may be some similarities to Italian grammar, just as there are in French, Spanish, Portughese and any other Romance language. Here are but a few Neapolitan Grammar books: GRAMMATICA DEL DIALETTO NAPOLETANO compilata dal Dottor Raffaele Capozzoli; Luigi Chiurazzi Editore, 1889 'A LENGUA 'E PULECENELLA - GRAMMATICA NAPOLETANA Carlo Iandolo; Franco di Mauro Editore, 1994 IL NAPOLETANO PARLATO E SCRITTO Con Note di grammatica storica Nicola De Blasi - Luigi Imperatore; Libreria Dante Descartes, 2000 FACILE FACILE - Impariama la lingua napoletana - Grammatica Colomba Rosaria Andolfi; Kairos Edizioni - Napoli, 2008 MODERN NEAPOLITAN GRAMMAR - GRAMMATICA NAPOLETANA ODIERNA D. Erwin - M. T. Fedele Lulu Press, 2011 -- Dale Erwin Lurigancho, Lima 15 PERU http://leather.casaerwin.org === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.26, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18240) http://www.pctools.com/ ===
Re: Fwd: [users] Re: Languages
Hi; --- On Sat, 9/3/11, Dale Erwin d...@casaerwin.org wrote: ... Spoken like a true northern Italian bigot... with all due respect. Please note I did not call you a northern Italian bigot... I said you speak like one. Maybe you are just misinformed. I should've thought better before my original posting because this subject touches deep fibers in people. I am pretty aware that all italian dialects are proper languages that predate standard italian. They are very much alive in basically every city in Italy. The issue is none of these languages is actually taught in schools anymore(?) and it's usually the older people that use them most. I have no objection to any of them being added to OpenOffice, it's just that many of the computer related terms (open file, print, etc) are unlikely to change with respect to the official italian. Yes, many people argue these languages are a cultural value and I am OK with them being preserved. Pedro. FWIW, .. No I am not from northern Italy.
Re: Fwd: [users] Re: Languages
A huge +1 on that ! Jomar PS.: A Klingon OpenOffice would be amazing to see :) On 2011/8/3 19:24 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: OK. Before someone starts saying nasty things about Garibaldi, it would be good to state some things I hope we all agree on: 1) What constitutes a language is as much a political and cultural question as a linguistic one. No sense debating it here. 2) OpenOffice.org has a rich history of offering support for many languages, many more than commercial office suites do. This is something we take pride in. This includes many minority languages, and even artificial languages like Esperanto. 3) If a group of volunteers wants to enable OpenOffice.org for a new language, we should point them to information on how to do this. We don't need to volunteer to do the translation, or use the translation, or even agree on the status of the language. But we should help someone understand how to do this. Remember, this might help lead to a future volunteer for the standard Italian translation as well. Thanks! -Rob On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Dale Erwin d...@casaerwin.org wrote: On 9/2/2011 10:23 PM, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: Hi Dale; With due respect to Italy's cultural richness (which I so much admire being italian myself but not only because of that), Neapolitan is classified as a dialect, not a language, for good reasons. Compared to standard italian you use the same character set and gramatical rules. Furthermore the computer related terms that OpenOffice uses are the same as in standard italian. My recomendation is just to add a dictionary with Naepolitan terms to the standard italian dictionary. best regards, Pedro, Spoken like a true northern Italian bigot... with all due respect. Please note I did not call you a northern Italian bigot... I said you speak like one. Maybe you are just misinformed. I agree that Neapolitan is a dialect because by definition a dialect is a LANGUAGE which is not the principal language of the country in which it is spoken and it is relegated to a particular region of that country. But it IS a language and is recognized as such by Wikipedia and by the Italian Province of Catania and has a rich literary presence spanning several centuries. For a brief time, from 1442 to 1458, Neapolitan was the official language of the Kingdom of Naples. It was supplanted by the Tuscan of Dante and Boccaccio which by 1500 had become the accepted literary language of Italy and generally referred to as Italian, but there was no official language called Italian until the unification of Italy. Although the official date of the unification is 1849, the Kingdom of Naples did not become part of the Kingdom of Italy until 1861. At that time Naples was possibly the richest city in the world and it was at this point that 80 million ducats were removed from the Bank of Naples and moved to the Bank of Italy causing the collapse of the entire southern Italian economy. It also gave rise to a bigotry in northern Italy which empowered them to deride the southern Italians because of their poverty (which they, the northerners, had caused). For this reason, it became unfashionable to speak Neapolitan. They call it the unification of Italy. I call it the rape of Naples. As for having the same character set as Italian, so does French, Spanish, Portughese, Rumanian and English. Are they also dialects? Of course not. And Neapolitan has its own grammar, too. There may be some similarities to Italian grammar, just as there are in French, Spanish, Portughese and any other Romance language. Here are but a few Neapolitan Grammar books: GRAMMATICA DEL DIALETTO NAPOLETANO compilata dal Dottor Raffaele Capozzoli; Luigi Chiurazzi Editore, 1889 'A LENGUA 'E PULECENELLA - GRAMMATICA NAPOLETANA Carlo Iandolo; Franco di Mauro Editore, 1994 IL NAPOLETANO PARLATO E SCRITTO Con Note di grammatica storica Nicola De Blasi - Luigi Imperatore; Libreria Dante Descartes, 2000 FACILE FACILE - Impariama la lingua napoletana - Grammatica Colomba Rosaria Andolfi; Kairos Edizioni - Napoli, 2008 MODERN NEAPOLITAN GRAMMAR - GRAMMATICA NAPOLETANA ODIERNA D. Erwin - M. T. Fedele Lulu Press, 2011 -- Dale Erwin Lurigancho, Lima 15 PERU http://leather.casaerwin.org === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.26, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18240) http://www.pctools.com/ ===
Re: Fwd: [users] Re: Languages
On 04.09.2011 06:47, Jomar Silva wrote: A huge +1 on that ! Jomar PS.: A Klingon OpenOffice would be amazing to see :) AFAIR that was one of the first language projects back in 2001 (or so), at least it was discussed, but was never released. On 2011/8/3 19:24 Rob Weirrobw...@apache.org wrote: OK. Before someone starts saying nasty things about Garibaldi, it would be good to state some things I hope we all agree on: 1) What constitutes a language is as much a political and cultural question as a linguistic one. No sense debating it here. 2) OpenOffice.org has a rich history of offering support for many languages, many more than commercial office suites do. This is something we take pride in. This includes many minority languages, and even artificial languages like Esperanto. 3) If a group of volunteers wants to enable OpenOffice.org for a new language, we should point them to information on how to do this. We don't need to volunteer to do the translation, or use the translation, or even agree on the status of the language. But we should help someone understand how to do this. Remember, this might help lead to a future volunteer for the standard Italian translation as well. Thanks! -Rob On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Dale Erwind...@casaerwin.org wrote: On 9/2/2011 10:23 PM, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: Hi Dale; With due respect to Italy's cultural richness (which I so much admire being italian myself but not only because of that), Neapolitan is classified as a dialect, not a language, for good reasons. Compared to standard italian you use the same character set and gramatical rules. Furthermore the computer related terms that OpenOffice uses are the same as in standard italian. My recomendation is just to add a dictionary with Naepolitan terms to the standard italian dictionary. best regards, Pedro, Spoken like a true northern Italian bigot... with all due respect. Please note I did not call you a northern Italian bigot... I said you speak like one. Maybe you are just misinformed. I agree that Neapolitan is a dialect because by definition a dialect is a LANGUAGE which is not the principal language of the country in which it is spoken and it is relegated to a particular region of that country. But it IS a language and is recognized as such by Wikipedia and by the Italian Province of Catania and has a rich literary presence spanning several centuries. For a brief time, from 1442 to 1458, Neapolitan was the official language of the Kingdom of Naples. It was supplanted by the Tuscan of Dante and Boccaccio which by 1500 had become the accepted literary language of Italy and generally referred to as Italian, but there was no official language called Italian until the unification of Italy. Although the official date of the unification is 1849, the Kingdom of Naples did not become part of the Kingdom of Italy until 1861. At that time Naples was possibly the richest city in the world and it was at this point that 80 million ducats were removed from the Bank of Naples and moved to the Bank of Italy causing the collapse of the entire southern Italian economy. It also gave rise to a bigotry in northern Italy which empowered them to deride the southern Italians because of their poverty (which they, the northerners, had caused). For this reason, it became unfashionable to speak Neapolitan. They call it the unification of Italy. I call it the rape of Naples. As for having the same character set as Italian, so does French, Spanish, Portughese, Rumanian and English. Are they also dialects? Of course not. And Neapolitan has its own grammar, too. There may be some similarities to Italian grammar, just as there are in French, Spanish, Portughese and any other Romance language. Here are but a few Neapolitan Grammar books: GRAMMATICA DEL DIALETTO NAPOLETANO compilata dal Dottor Raffaele Capozzoli; Luigi Chiurazzi Editore, 1889 'A LENGUA 'E PULECENELLA - GRAMMATICA NAPOLETANA Carlo Iandolo; Franco di Mauro Editore, 1994 IL NAPOLETANO PARLATO E SCRITTO Con Note di grammatica storica Nicola De Blasi - Luigi Imperatore; Libreria Dante Descartes, 2000 FACILE FACILE - Impariama la lingua napoletana - Grammatica Colomba Rosaria Andolfi; Kairos Edizioni - Napoli, 2008 MODERN NEAPOLITAN GRAMMAR - GRAMMATICA NAPOLETANA ODIERNA D. Erwin - M. T. Fedele Lulu Press, 2011 -- Dale Erwin Lurigancho, Lima 15 PERU http://leather.casaerwin.org === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.26, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18240) http://www.pctools.com/ ===
Re: Fwd: [users] Re: Languages
On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 8:43 PM, Peter Junge peter.ju...@gmx.org wrote: On 04.09.2011 06:47, Jomar Silva wrote: A huge +1 on that ! Jomar PS.: A Klingon OpenOffice would be amazing to see :) AFAIR that was one of the first language projects back in 2001 (or so), at least it was discussed, but was never released. Hmm... I can see it now, Klingon BattleOffice. The nice thing is you do not need help or documentation. If you press F1 it just displays a message in Klingon saying, You are weak and pathetic. On 2011/8/3 19:24 Rob Weirrobw...@apache.org wrote: OK. Before someone starts saying nasty things about Garibaldi, it would be good to state some things I hope we all agree on: 1) What constitutes a language is as much a political and cultural question as a linguistic one. No sense debating it here. 2) OpenOffice.org has a rich history of offering support for many languages, many more than commercial office suites do. This is something we take pride in. This includes many minority languages, and even artificial languages like Esperanto. 3) If a group of volunteers wants to enable OpenOffice.org for a new language, we should point them to information on how to do this. We don't need to volunteer to do the translation, or use the translation, or even agree on the status of the language. But we should help someone understand how to do this. Remember, this might help lead to a future volunteer for the standard Italian translation as well. Thanks! -Rob On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Dale Erwind...@casaerwin.org wrote: On 9/2/2011 10:23 PM, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: Hi Dale; With due respect to Italy's cultural richness (which I so much admire being italian myself but not only because of that), Neapolitan is classified as a dialect, not a language, for good reasons. Compared to standard italian you use the same character set and gramatical rules. Furthermore the computer related terms that OpenOffice uses are the same as in standard italian. My recomendation is just to add a dictionary with Naepolitan terms to the standard italian dictionary. best regards, Pedro, Spoken like a true northern Italian bigot... with all due respect. Please note I did not call you a northern Italian bigot... I said you speak like one. Maybe you are just misinformed. I agree that Neapolitan is a dialect because by definition a dialect is a LANGUAGE which is not the principal language of the country in which it is spoken and it is relegated to a particular region of that country. But it IS a language and is recognized as such by Wikipedia and by the Italian Province of Catania and has a rich literary presence spanning several centuries. For a brief time, from 1442 to 1458, Neapolitan was the official language of the Kingdom of Naples. It was supplanted by the Tuscan of Dante and Boccaccio which by 1500 had become the accepted literary language of Italy and generally referred to as Italian, but there was no official language called Italian until the unification of Italy. Although the official date of the unification is 1849, the Kingdom of Naples did not become part of the Kingdom of Italy until 1861. At that time Naples was possibly the richest city in the world and it was at this point that 80 million ducats were removed from the Bank of Naples and moved to the Bank of Italy causing the collapse of the entire southern Italian economy. It also gave rise to a bigotry in northern Italy which empowered them to deride the southern Italians because of their poverty (which they, the northerners, had caused). For this reason, it became unfashionable to speak Neapolitan. They call it the unification of Italy. I call it the rape of Naples. As for having the same character set as Italian, so does French, Spanish, Portughese, Rumanian and English. Are they also dialects? Of course not. And Neapolitan has its own grammar, too. There may be some similarities to Italian grammar, just as there are in French, Spanish, Portughese and any other Romance language. Here are but a few Neapolitan Grammar books: GRAMMATICA DEL DIALETTO NAPOLETANO compilata dal Dottor Raffaele Capozzoli; Luigi Chiurazzi Editore, 1889 'A LENGUA 'E PULECENELLA - GRAMMATICA NAPOLETANA Carlo Iandolo; Franco di Mauro Editore, 1994 IL NAPOLETANO PARLATO E SCRITTO Con Note di grammatica storica Nicola De Blasi - Luigi Imperatore; Libreria Dante Descartes, 2000 FACILE FACILE - Impariama la lingua napoletana - Grammatica Colomba Rosaria Andolfi; Kairos Edizioni - Napoli, 2008 MODERN NEAPOLITAN GRAMMAR - GRAMMATICA NAPOLETANA ODIERNA D. Erwin - M. T. Fedele Lulu Press, 2011 -- Dale Erwin Lurigancho, Lima 15 PERU http://leather.casaerwin.org === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.26, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18240) http://www.pctools.com/ ===
Re: Fwd: [users] Re: Languages
Hi Dale; With due respect to Italy's cultural richness (which I so much admire being italian myself but not only because of that), Neapolitan is classified as a dialect, not a language, for good reasons. Compared to standard italian you use the same character set and gramatical rules. Furthermore the computer related terms that OpenOffice uses are the same as in standard italian. My recomendation is just to add a dictionary with Naepolitan terms to the standard italian dictionary. best regards, Pedro, --- On Fri, 9/2/11, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: Hi Dale, I'm forwarding your question to the Apache list where OpenOffice development discussions are now taking place. Hopefully someone here has an answer to your question, about how to get started making a new language translation of OpenOffice. Regards, -Rob -- Forwarded message -- From: Dale Erwin d...@casaerwin.org Date: Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 4:43 PM Subject: [users] Re: Languages To: us...@openoffice.org On 8/29/2011 1:53 PM, Sigrid Carrera wrote: Hello Erwin, On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 12:14:10 -0500 Dale Erwind...@casaerwin.org wrote: If this is not the proper forum, perhaps someone could point me to the proper one, but I am trying to find out what is necessary to be done to have a new language available for OOo. You might have to download a so called languagepack for the language you want and have to install it alongside your OOo version. Once you have installed it, go to Tools - Options - Language settings - Language and choose there the default language you want. You will have to close OOo completely (even the Quickstarter if you use it) and restart OOo for the change to take effect. Hope this helps. Sigrid After sending my email, I was afraid it would be construed that way. I don't mean adding a language to my installation that OOo already supports. I mean adding a language to those that OOo supports. I'm specifically thinking of the Neapolitan language (I dislike using the term dialect, but it is commonly referred to as an Italian dialect). -- Dale Erwin Lurigancho, Lima 15 PERU http://leather.casaerwin.org
