Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin" mailing list

[Chris Sharp]

Good Morning,

I just wanted to summarize the discussion and try and bring it to some sort of 
action point.  Here's what I've got:

Explicit Votes: 
Yes (+1)9
No  (-1)1
Neutral (0) 1

Opinions/Discussion Highlights: 
"My counter-recommendation is to invite people to subscribe to all topical 
lists and when posting messages to first consider posting on one of the sub 
lists and then if none fit the bill, use the general list."  
"... I am concerned that we are doing a disservice to new community members by 
telling them a list is available to help them when there don't seem to be many 
experienced folks who could help them actively participating on that list." 
  
"Since the list was created, there's been long periods where it has been mostly 
ignored, either passively or actively, and I think it long ago reached the 
point where reluctance to use it has self-fulfilled a prophecy that it would 
not be used."   
"If you read the IRC meeting log (referenced below), there was a great deal of 
interest in having a separate list, but most who participated in that meeting 
have not participated in Evergreen-Admin list disscussions. Is 2+ years not 
enough time to allow for growth?"  
"If we do eliminate the "evergreen-admin," I would love to see a word or two 
added to the list descriptions to make it more clear where sysadmin question 
would be most welcomed."  
"Perhaps in the process of moving the "dev" list to the community lists server, 
we might consider renaming it to be a bit broader than just "dev" meaning 
developer."   
"I think the issue is that perhaps some of our most experienced community 
members feel that they are subscribed to a generous amount of Evergreen 
specific lists already... there is a risk of "hurting" people in the sense that 
they may not get their questions answered well or expediently via the sys admin 
mailing list and that will lead them to believe we just don't care."

There was also additional discussion around moving the Open-ILS-* lists from 
the GPLS list server to the Evergreen community list server and in the process, 
renaming, reorganizing, and/or clarifying the usage of, the current -dev and 
-general lists.  I'm considering those issues outside the scope of my original 
motion, but I'm happy to assist in any reorganization the community agrees on.

My takeaway is that, with objections noted, there is general consensus that the 
Evergreen-Admin list should be deactivated.  Accordingly, I will deactivate the 
list, keeping the archived posts available for viewing/web searching purposes.  
I will send a "swan song" post to that list, inviting subscribers to ask 
technical questions on the Open-ILS-Dev list.  I'll defer to the web team for 
how to re-do the mailing list web page 
(http://evergreen-ils.org/communicate/mailing-lists/) to reflect this change.

Please let me know if you have further questions or concerns!

Chris

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Sharp" 
> To: "Evergreen Discussion Group" 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 4:02:23 PM
> Subject: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin"
> mailing list
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I administer or co-administer all of the open-ils/evergreen mailing lists,
> and I would like to make a motion that we deactivate the Evergreen-Admin
> mailing list.  It is a very low-traffic list (maybe a dozen monthly posts at
> its busiest) with low membership (75 members), and most of the questions
> asked there would be appropriate for Open-ILS-General.  The list became
> active in September 2012 in response to an IRC discussion
> (http://evergreen-ils.org/irc_logs/evergreen/2012-05/%23evergreen.18-Fri-2012.log)
> where the majority of attendees wanted a dedicated system administration
> mailing list.
> 
> In my view, the Evergreen-Admin list duplicates the purpose of this, the
> General list, in that the General list serves as an all-purpose venue for
> (non-development related) technical help in running Evergreen.  If you
> agree, please +1, otherwise, please state your case for keeping it. ;-)
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Chris
> 
> --
> Chris Sharp
> PINES System Administrator
> Georgia Public Library Service
> 1800 Century Place, Suite 150
> Atlanta, Georgia 30345
> (404) 235-7147
> csh...@georgialibraries.org
> http://pines.georgialibraries.org/
> 

-- 
Chris Sharp
PINES System Administrator
Georgia Public Library Service
1800 Century Place, Suite 150
Atlanta, Georgia 30345
(404) 235-7147
csh...@georgialibraries.org
http://pines.georgialibraries.org/

Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin" mailing list

[Kathy Lussier]

On 01/16/2015 12:44 PM, Lazar, Alexey Vladimirovich wrote:

A potential time-saving benefit of implementing such a structure or some 
variant of it (and finishing migrating to the new list server) could be that 
for the foreseeable future this would remain the last discussion thread on the 
topic of activating/deactivating mailing lists.;)

Ha ha. One can dream! :)

Kathy

--
Kathy Lussier
Project Coordinator
Massachusetts Library Network Cooperative
(508) 343-0128
kluss...@masslnc.org
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/kmlussier

Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin" mailing list

[Lazar, Alexey Vladimirovich]

mbers of the Evergreen community an
>>> opportunity to share their growing knowledge.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> 
>>> Technical Lists
>>> 
>>> Evergreen Development Discussion List
>>> 
>>> This list is for patches and technical discussions about Evergreen and
>>> OpenSRF development. Messages and responses are often in the shorthand
>>> common to this culture.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Just my two cents,
>>> Yamil
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Michael Peters 
>>> wrote:
>>>> Just my 2 cents, but I've always felt IRC was the best place to reach
>>>> other
>>>> sys-admins for advice.  I can't recall ever posting to the mailing list
>>>> about a system administration issue.  I know there are so many active
>>>> sys-admins on the IRC that I think the response is likely to be quicker
>>>> there.
>>>> 
>>>> I'm also more apt to answer a question I see in IRC.  I'm not sure I'm
>>>> even
>>>> subscribed to anything other than Dev and General.
>>>> 
>>>> Michael Peters
>>>> Senior Systems Analyst
>>>> Emerald Data Networks, Inc.
>>>> Phone: 678.302.3000 x1013
>>>> Help Desk: 678.302.3000 x1500
>>>> www.emeralddata.net
>>>> 
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org
>>>> [mailto:open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> Galen Charlton
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 12:43 PM
>>>> To: Evergreen Discussion Group
>>>> Subject: Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the
>>>> "evergreen-admin"
>>>> mailing list
>>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Chris Sharp
>>>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> In my view, the Evergreen-Admin list duplicates the purpose of this,
>>>>> the General list, in that the General list serves as an all-purpose
>>>>> venue for (non-development related) technical help in running
>>>>> Evergreen.  If you agree, please +1, otherwise, please state your case
>>>>> for keeping it. ;-)
>>>> 
>>>> 0.
>>>> 
>>>> A dedicated list for Evergreen sysadmins could work in principle, but of
>>>> course requires that folks actually answer questions posted to it.
>>>> Since the list was created, there's been long periods where it has been
>>>> mostly ignored, either passively or actively, and I think it long ago
>>>> reached the point where reluctance to use it has self-fulfilled a
>>>> prophecy
>>>> that it would not be used.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Galen
>>>> --
>>>> Galen Charlton
>>>> Manager of Implementation
>>>> Equinox Software, Inc. / The Open Source Experts
>>>> email:  g...@esilibrary.com
>>>> direct: +1 770-709-5581
>>>> cell:   +1 404-984-4366
>>>> skype:  gmcharlt
>>>> web:http://www.esilibrary.com/
>>>> Supporting Koha and Evergreen: http://koha-community.org &
>>>> http://evergreen-ils.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Yamil Suarez, MCS
>>> Library System Administrator/Developer
>>> 
>>> Stan Getz Library
>>> Berklee College of Music
>>> 1140 Boylston St
>>> Boston, MA 02215
>>> 
>>> ysua...@berklee.edu
>>> 617-747-2617
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA
>> Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services,
>> York County Library System
>> 
>> “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit
>> me.”
>> ― C.S. Lewis
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Benjamin Shum
> Evergreen Systems Manager
> Bibliomation, Inc.
> 24 Wooster Ave.
> Waterbury, CT 06708
> 203-577-4070, ext. 113

Aleksey Lazar
IS Developer and Integrator - PALS
http://www.mnpals.org/

Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin" mailing list

[Yamil Suarez]

I like idea of making the dev list as an explicitly advertised place
where sysadmins should go for advice. Alternatively I still like the
idea of making it explicitly clear that the general list is where
sysadmins questions can be sent (if the sender prefers to use email).

I am completely opposed to expecting that sysadmin question be ONLY
sent in by IRC. I occasionally use IRC for myriad types of questions
including sysadmin questions, but I would hate to see it as the only
preferred avenue for sysadmin questions.

Thanks,
Yamil




On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Ruth Frasur
 wrote:
> Totally fair and thanks for the explanation.
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Grace Dunbar 
> wrote:
>>
>> I am in agreement with Kathy on this as well.
>>
>> To respond to Ruth's question of "...does it hurt anything to have it no
>> matter how active/inactive it is?  Does it cost anything?"
>> I think the issue is that perhaps some of our most experienced community
>> members feel that they are subscribed to a generous amount of Evergreen
>> specific lists already.  I know for a fact that some of our best resources
>> chose not to subscribe to that list  - perhaps because they felt it was
>> redundant, I can't say.  So, there is a risk of "hurting" people in the
>> sense that they may not get their questions answered well or expediently via
>> the sys admin mailing list and that will lead them to believe we just don't
>> care.  And I like to believe that we care quite a lot.  So, I'm a +1 for
>> making the dev list more of a technical list which can be inclusive of sys
>> admins and concentrating our knowledge/skills there.
>>
>> Of course, that's just my $.02.
>> :)
>>
>> Grace
>>

Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin" mailing list

[Rogan Hamby]

gt; the chances of not being heard are high.
>>>>>
>>>>> With the mailing list, a new message from a list has a slim chance of
>>>>> being unseen.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally to me, it’s also a bit ironic that the topic of IRC came up
>>>>> in the context of yet another discussion about the existence of
>>>>> evergreen-admin list. That IRC meeting about setting up the list was about
>>>>> my first time using the IRC for Evergreen, and it was not a pleasant
>>>>> experience. I don’t recall all the details, but my general takeaway was
>>>>> that by the time I was done typing up a response, several posts would
>>>>> either modify the original premise or move the topic along to something
>>>>> else. To counter that effect, when I tried to be brief and fast things did
>>>>> not always come out sounding the way I intended. I had similar experiences
>>>>> when participating in other types meetings on IRC. Based on my personal
>>>>> subjective experience, my view is that the IRC is not a good channel for
>>>>> meaningful discussion.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Michael Peters
>>>>>> Senior Systems Analyst
>>>>>> Emerald Data Networks, Inc.
>>>>>> Phone: 678.302.3000 x1013
>>>>>> Help Desk: 678.302.3000 x1500
>>>>>> www.emeralddata.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>> From: open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org
>>>>>> [mailto:open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of
>>>>>> Galen Charlton
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 12:43 PM
>>>>>> To: Evergreen Discussion Group
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the
>>>>>> "evergreen-admin"
>>>>>> mailing list
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Chris Sharp <
>>>>>> csh...@georgialibraries.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In my view, the Evergreen-Admin list duplicates the purpose of this,
>>>>>>> the General list, in that the General list serves as an all-purpose
>>>>>>> venue for (non-development related) technical help in running
>>>>>>> Evergreen.  If you agree, please +1, otherwise, please state your
>>>>>>> case
>>>>>>> for keeping it. ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> 0.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A dedicated list for Evergreen sysadmins could work in principle, but
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> course requires that folks actually answer questions posted to it.
>>>>>> Since the list was created, there's been long periods where it has
>>>>>> been
>>>>>> mostly ignored, either passively or actively, and I think it long ago
>>>>>> reached the point where reluctance to use it has self-fulfilled a
>>>>>> prophecy
>>>>>> that it would not be used.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Galen
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Galen Charlton
>>>>>> Manager of Implementation
>>>>>> Equinox Software, Inc. / The Open Source Experts
>>>>>> email:  g...@esilibrary.com
>>>>>> direct: +1 770-709-5581
>>>>>> cell:   +1 404-984-4366
>>>>>> skype:  gmcharlt
>>>>>> web:http://www.esilibrary.com/
>>>>>> Supporting Koha and Evergreen: http://koha-community.org &
>>>>>> http://evergreen-ils.org
>>>>>>
>>>>> Aleksey Lazar
>>>>> IS Developer and Integrator - PALS
>>>>> http://www.mnpals.org/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kathy Lussier
>>>> Project Coordinator
>>>> Massachusetts Library Network Cooperative
>>>> (508) 343-0128
>>>> kluss...@masslnc.org
>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/kmlussier
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ruth Frasur
>>> Director of the Historic(ally Awesome) Hagerstown - Jefferson Township
>>> Library
>>> 10 W. College Street in Hagerstown, Indiana (47346)
>>> p (765) 489-5632; f (765) 489-5808
>>>
>>> Our Kickin' Website <http://hagerstownlibrary.org>  Our Rockin'
>>> Facebook Page <http://facebook.com/hjtplibrary>  and Stuff I'm Reading
>>> <http://pinterest.com/hjtplibrary/ruth-reads/>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Grace Dunbar, Vice President
>> Equinox Software, Inc.  -  The Open Source Experts
>> gdun...@esilibrary.com
>> 1-877-OPEN-ILSwww.esilibrary.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Ruth Frasur
> Director of the Historic(ally Awesome) Hagerstown - Jefferson Township
> Library
> 10 W. College Street in Hagerstown, Indiana (47346)
> p (765) 489-5632; f (765) 489-5808
>
> Our Kickin' Website <http://hagerstownlibrary.org>  Our Rockin' Facebook
> Page <http://facebook.com/hjtplibrary>  and Stuff I'm Reading
> <http://pinterest.com/hjtplibrary/ruth-reads/>
>
>


-- 

Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA
Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services,
York County Library System

“You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit
me.”
― C.S. Lewis <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis>

Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin" mailing list

[Ruth Frasur]

he topic along to something
>>>> else. To counter that effect, when I tried to be brief and fast things did
>>>> not always come out sounding the way I intended. I had similar experiences
>>>> when participating in other types meetings on IRC. Based on my personal
>>>> subjective experience, my view is that the IRC is not a good channel for
>>>> meaningful discussion.
>>>>
>>>>  Michael Peters
>>>>> Senior Systems Analyst
>>>>> Emerald Data Networks, Inc.
>>>>> Phone: 678.302.3000 x1013
>>>>> Help Desk: 678.302.3000 x1500
>>>>> www.emeralddata.net
>>>>>
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org
>>>>> [mailto:open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org] On Behalf
>>>>> Of
>>>>> Galen Charlton
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 12:43 PM
>>>>> To: Evergreen Discussion Group
>>>>> Subject: Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the
>>>>> "evergreen-admin"
>>>>> mailing list
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Chris Sharp <
>>>>> csh...@georgialibraries.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In my view, the Evergreen-Admin list duplicates the purpose of this,
>>>>>> the General list, in that the General list serves as an all-purpose
>>>>>> venue for (non-development related) technical help in running
>>>>>> Evergreen.  If you agree, please +1, otherwise, please state your case
>>>>>> for keeping it. ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>> 0.
>>>>>
>>>>> A dedicated list for Evergreen sysadmins could work in principle, but
>>>>> of
>>>>> course requires that folks actually answer questions posted to it.
>>>>> Since the list was created, there's been long periods where it has been
>>>>> mostly ignored, either passively or actively, and I think it long ago
>>>>> reached the point where reluctance to use it has self-fulfilled a
>>>>> prophecy
>>>>> that it would not be used.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Galen
>>>>> --
>>>>> Galen Charlton
>>>>> Manager of Implementation
>>>>> Equinox Software, Inc. / The Open Source Experts
>>>>> email:  g...@esilibrary.com
>>>>> direct: +1 770-709-5581
>>>>> cell:   +1 404-984-4366
>>>>> skype:  gmcharlt
>>>>> web:http://www.esilibrary.com/
>>>>> Supporting Koha and Evergreen: http://koha-community.org &
>>>>> http://evergreen-ils.org
>>>>>
>>>> Aleksey Lazar
>>>> IS Developer and Integrator - PALS
>>>> http://www.mnpals.org/
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Kathy Lussier
>>> Project Coordinator
>>> Massachusetts Library Network Cooperative
>>> (508) 343-0128
>>> kluss...@masslnc.org
>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/kmlussier
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ruth Frasur
>> Director of the Historic(ally Awesome) Hagerstown - Jefferson Township
>> Library
>> 10 W. College Street in Hagerstown, Indiana (47346)
>> p (765) 489-5632; f (765) 489-5808
>>
>> Our Kickin' Website <http://hagerstownlibrary.org>  Our Rockin' Facebook
>> Page <http://facebook.com/hjtplibrary>  and Stuff I'm Reading
>> <http://pinterest.com/hjtplibrary/ruth-reads/>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Grace Dunbar, Vice President
> Equinox Software, Inc.  -  The Open Source Experts
> gdun...@esilibrary.com
> 1-877-OPEN-ILSwww.esilibrary.com
>



-- 
Ruth Frasur
Director of the Historic(ally Awesome) Hagerstown - Jefferson Township
Library
10 W. College Street in Hagerstown, Indiana (47346)
p (765) 489-5632; f (765) 489-5808

Our Kickin' Website <http://hagerstownlibrary.org>  Our Rockin' Facebook
Page <http://facebook.com/hjtplibrary>  and Stuff I'm Reading
<http://pinterest.com/hjtplibrary/ruth-reads/>

Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin" mailing list

[Grace Dunbar]

I am in agreement with Kathy on this as well.

To respond to Ruth's question of "...does it hurt anything to have it no
matter how active/inactive it is?  Does it cost anything?"
I think the issue is that perhaps some of our most experienced community
members feel that they are subscribed to a generous amount of Evergreen
specific lists already.  I know for a fact that some of our best resources
chose not to subscribe to that list  - perhaps because they felt it was
redundant, I can't say.  So, there is a risk of "hurting" people in the
sense that they may not get their questions answered well or expediently
via the sys admin mailing list and that will lead them to believe we just
don't care.  And I like to believe that we care quite a lot.  So, I'm a +1
for making the dev list more of a technical list which can be inclusive of
sys admins and concentrating our knowledge/skills there.

Of course, that's just my $.02.
:)

Grace


On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Ruth Frasur <
direc...@hagerstownlibrary.org> wrote:

> I've been weighing whether or not I had anything to add to this discussion
> or not.  I've deleted several drafts, but finally I have something.  It's
> this.  I agree with Kathy.  There are enough different people with
> different preferences for communications.  I've never joined the admin list
> because I wasn't really sure if it was for library admin (I'm that) or
> system admin (I'm not that).
>
> My question is - does it hurt anything to have it no matter how
> active/inactive it is?  Does it cost anything?  Create any headaches?
> Offend anyone's sensibilities?  Strike those last two.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:15 AM, Kathy Lussier 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> What I would hate to see is an IRC vs. email discussion.
>>
>> The fact is, when people are asking for help, they're going to gravitate
>> to the medium they are comfortable with. We get questions for help in IRC,
>> on the mailing lists, and sometimes even in Launchpad questions or on the
>> Evergreen Facebook page.
>>
>> The important thing is that we steer people, no matter what their
>> preference, to the place where their questions are likely to be answered,
>> and then that we do our best to help them out if we are able.
>>
>> +1 to the idea of making the dev list a "technical" discussion list to
>> handle development, sys admin, or any other technical discussions.
>>
>> Kathy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 01/15/2015 01:31 PM, Lazar, Alexey Vladimirovich wrote:
>>
>>> On 2015-01-14, at 14:18 , Michael Peters 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Just my 2 cents, but I've always felt IRC was the best place to reach
>>>> other
>>>> sys-admins for advice.  I can't recall ever posting to the mailing list
>>>> about a system administration issue.  I know there are so many active
>>>> sys-admins on the IRC that I think the response is likely to be quicker
>>>> there.
>>>>
>>>> I'm also more apt to answer a question I see in IRC.  I'm not sure I'm
>>>> even
>>>> subscribed to anything other than Dev and General.
>>>>
>>> A problem with IRC is that if no one happens to respond near the time
>>> after the question is asked, the IRC keeps rolling on and the question gets
>>> lost. If working in a different time zone, or during non-1st-shift hours,
>>> the chances of not being heard are high.
>>>
>>> With the mailing list, a new message from a list has a slim chance of
>>> being unseen.
>>>
>>> Personally to me, it’s also a bit ironic that the topic of IRC came up
>>> in the context of yet another discussion about the existence of
>>> evergreen-admin list. That IRC meeting about setting up the list was about
>>> my first time using the IRC for Evergreen, and it was not a pleasant
>>> experience. I don’t recall all the details, but my general takeaway was
>>> that by the time I was done typing up a response, several posts would
>>> either modify the original premise or move the topic along to something
>>> else. To counter that effect, when I tried to be brief and fast things did
>>> not always come out sounding the way I intended. I had similar experiences
>>> when participating in other types meetings on IRC. Based on my personal
>>> subjective experience, my view is that the IRC is not a good channel for
>>> meaningful discussion.
>>>
>>>  Michael Peters
>>>> Senior Systems An

Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin" mailing list

[Ruth Frasur]

I've been weighing whether or not I had anything to add to this discussion
or not.  I've deleted several drafts, but finally I have something.  It's
this.  I agree with Kathy.  There are enough different people with
different preferences for communications.  I've never joined the admin list
because I wasn't really sure if it was for library admin (I'm that) or
system admin (I'm not that).

My question is - does it hurt anything to have it no matter how
active/inactive it is?  Does it cost anything?  Create any headaches?
Offend anyone's sensibilities?  Strike those last two.



On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:15 AM, Kathy Lussier 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> What I would hate to see is an IRC vs. email discussion.
>
> The fact is, when people are asking for help, they're going to gravitate
> to the medium they are comfortable with. We get questions for help in IRC,
> on the mailing lists, and sometimes even in Launchpad questions or on the
> Evergreen Facebook page.
>
> The important thing is that we steer people, no matter what their
> preference, to the place where their questions are likely to be answered,
> and then that we do our best to help them out if we are able.
>
> +1 to the idea of making the dev list a "technical" discussion list to
> handle development, sys admin, or any other technical discussions.
>
> Kathy
>
>
>
>
> On 01/15/2015 01:31 PM, Lazar, Alexey Vladimirovich wrote:
>
>> On 2015-01-14, at 14:18 , Michael Peters  wrote:
>>
>>  Just my 2 cents, but I've always felt IRC was the best place to reach
>>> other
>>> sys-admins for advice.  I can't recall ever posting to the mailing list
>>> about a system administration issue.  I know there are so many active
>>> sys-admins on the IRC that I think the response is likely to be quicker
>>> there.
>>>
>>> I'm also more apt to answer a question I see in IRC.  I'm not sure I'm
>>> even
>>> subscribed to anything other than Dev and General.
>>>
>> A problem with IRC is that if no one happens to respond near the time
>> after the question is asked, the IRC keeps rolling on and the question gets
>> lost. If working in a different time zone, or during non-1st-shift hours,
>> the chances of not being heard are high.
>>
>> With the mailing list, a new message from a list has a slim chance of
>> being unseen.
>>
>> Personally to me, it’s also a bit ironic that the topic of IRC came up in
>> the context of yet another discussion about the existence of
>> evergreen-admin list. That IRC meeting about setting up the list was about
>> my first time using the IRC for Evergreen, and it was not a pleasant
>> experience. I don’t recall all the details, but my general takeaway was
>> that by the time I was done typing up a response, several posts would
>> either modify the original premise or move the topic along to something
>> else. To counter that effect, when I tried to be brief and fast things did
>> not always come out sounding the way I intended. I had similar experiences
>> when participating in other types meetings on IRC. Based on my personal
>> subjective experience, my view is that the IRC is not a good channel for
>> meaningful discussion.
>>
>>  Michael Peters
>>> Senior Systems Analyst
>>> Emerald Data Networks, Inc.
>>> Phone: 678.302.3000 x1013
>>> Help Desk: 678.302.3000 x1500
>>> www.emeralddata.net
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org
>>> [mailto:open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Galen Charlton
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 12:43 PM
>>> To: Evergreen Discussion Group
>>> Subject: Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the
>>> "evergreen-admin"
>>> mailing list
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Chris Sharp <
>>> csh...@georgialibraries.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In my view, the Evergreen-Admin list duplicates the purpose of this,
>>>> the General list, in that the General list serves as an all-purpose
>>>> venue for (non-development related) technical help in running
>>>> Evergreen.  If you agree, please +1, otherwise, please state your case
>>>> for keeping it. ;-)
>>>>
>>> 0.
>>>
>>> A dedicated list for Evergreen sysadmins could work in principle, but of
>>> course requires that folks actually answer questions posted to it.

Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin" mailing list

[Kathy Lussier]

Hi all,

What I would hate to see is an IRC vs. email discussion.

The fact is, when people are asking for help, they're going to gravitate 
to the medium they are comfortable with. We get questions for help in 
IRC, on the mailing lists, and sometimes even in Launchpad questions or 
on the Evergreen Facebook page.


The important thing is that we steer people, no matter what their 
preference, to the place where their questions are likely to be 
answered, and then that we do our best to help them out if we are able.


+1 to the idea of making the dev list a "technical" discussion list to 
handle development, sys admin, or any other technical discussions.


Kathy



On 01/15/2015 01:31 PM, Lazar, Alexey Vladimirovich wrote:

On 2015-01-14, at 14:18 , Michael Peters  wrote:


Just my 2 cents, but I've always felt IRC was the best place to reach other
sys-admins for advice.  I can't recall ever posting to the mailing list
about a system administration issue.  I know there are so many active
sys-admins on the IRC that I think the response is likely to be quicker
there.

I'm also more apt to answer a question I see in IRC.  I'm not sure I'm even
subscribed to anything other than Dev and General.

A problem with IRC is that if no one happens to respond near the time after the 
question is asked, the IRC keeps rolling on and the question gets lost. If 
working in a different time zone, or during non-1st-shift hours, the chances of 
not being heard are high.

With the mailing list, a new message from a list has a slim chance of being 
unseen.

Personally to me, it’s also a bit ironic that the topic of IRC came up in the 
context of yet another discussion about the existence of evergreen-admin list. 
That IRC meeting about setting up the list was about my first time using the 
IRC for Evergreen, and it was not a pleasant experience. I don’t recall all the 
details, but my general takeaway was that by the time I was done typing up a 
response, several posts would either modify the original premise or move the 
topic along to something else. To counter that effect, when I tried to be brief 
and fast things did not always come out sounding the way I intended. I had 
similar experiences when participating in other types meetings on IRC. Based on 
my personal subjective experience, my view is that the IRC is not a good 
channel for meaningful discussion.


Michael Peters
Senior Systems Analyst
Emerald Data Networks, Inc.
Phone: 678.302.3000 x1013
Help Desk: 678.302.3000 x1500
www.emeralddata.net

-Original Message-
From: open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org
[mailto:open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org] On Behalf Of
Galen Charlton
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 12:43 PM
To: Evergreen Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin"
mailing list

Hi,

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Chris Sharp 
wrote:

In my view, the Evergreen-Admin list duplicates the purpose of this,
the General list, in that the General list serves as an all-purpose
venue for (non-development related) technical help in running
Evergreen.  If you agree, please +1, otherwise, please state your case
for keeping it. ;-)

0.

A dedicated list for Evergreen sysadmins could work in principle, but of
course requires that folks actually answer questions posted to it.
Since the list was created, there's been long periods where it has been
mostly ignored, either passively or actively, and I think it long ago
reached the point where reluctance to use it has self-fulfilled a prophecy
that it would not be used.

Regards,

Galen
--
Galen Charlton
Manager of Implementation
Equinox Software, Inc. / The Open Source Experts
email:  g...@esilibrary.com
direct: +1 770-709-5581
cell:   +1 404-984-4366
skype:  gmcharlt
web:http://www.esilibrary.com/
Supporting Koha and Evergreen: http://koha-community.org &
http://evergreen-ils.org

Aleksey Lazar
IS Developer and Integrator - PALS
http://www.mnpals.org/



--
Kathy Lussier
Project Coordinator
Massachusetts Library Network Cooperative
(508) 343-0128
kluss...@masslnc.org
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/kmlussier

Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin" mailing list

[Lazar, Alexey Vladimirovich]

On 2015-01-14, at 14:18 , Michael Peters  wrote:

> Just my 2 cents, but I've always felt IRC was the best place to reach other 
> sys-admins for advice.  I can't recall ever posting to the mailing list 
> about a system administration issue.  I know there are so many active 
> sys-admins on the IRC that I think the response is likely to be quicker 
> there.
> 
> I'm also more apt to answer a question I see in IRC.  I'm not sure I'm even 
> subscribed to anything other than Dev and General.

A problem with IRC is that if no one happens to respond near the time after the 
question is asked, the IRC keeps rolling on and the question gets lost. If 
working in a different time zone, or during non-1st-shift hours, the chances of 
not being heard are high.

With the mailing list, a new message from a list has a slim chance of being 
unseen.

Personally to me, it’s also a bit ironic that the topic of IRC came up in the 
context of yet another discussion about the existence of evergreen-admin list. 
That IRC meeting about setting up the list was about my first time using the 
IRC for Evergreen, and it was not a pleasant experience. I don’t recall all the 
details, but my general takeaway was that by the time I was done typing up a 
response, several posts would either modify the original premise or move the 
topic along to something else. To counter that effect, when I tried to be brief 
and fast things did not always come out sounding the way I intended. I had 
similar experiences when participating in other types meetings on IRC. Based on 
my personal subjective experience, my view is that the IRC is not a good 
channel for meaningful discussion.  

> 
> Michael Peters
> Senior Systems Analyst
> Emerald Data Networks, Inc.
> Phone: 678.302.3000 x1013
> Help Desk: 678.302.3000 x1500
> www.emeralddata.net
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org 
> [mailto:open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org] On Behalf Of 
> Galen Charlton
> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 12:43 PM
> To: Evergreen Discussion Group
> Subject: Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin" 
> mailing list
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Chris Sharp  
> wrote:
>> In my view, the Evergreen-Admin list duplicates the purpose of this,
>> the General list, in that the General list serves as an all-purpose
>> venue for (non-development related) technical help in running
>> Evergreen.  If you agree, please +1, otherwise, please state your case
>> for keeping it. ;-)
> 
> 0.
> 
> A dedicated list for Evergreen sysadmins could work in principle, but of 
> course requires that folks actually answer questions posted to it.
> Since the list was created, there's been long periods where it has been 
> mostly ignored, either passively or actively, and I think it long ago 
> reached the point where reluctance to use it has self-fulfilled a prophecy 
> that it would not be used.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Galen
> --
> Galen Charlton
> Manager of Implementation
> Equinox Software, Inc. / The Open Source Experts
> email:  g...@esilibrary.com
> direct: +1 770-709-5581
> cell:   +1 404-984-4366
> skype:  gmcharlt
> web:http://www.esilibrary.com/
> Supporting Koha and Evergreen: http://koha-community.org & 
> http://evergreen-ils.org

Aleksey Lazar
IS Developer and Integrator - PALS
http://www.mnpals.org/

Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin" mailing list

[Rogan Hamby]

Ben,

I have been for shutting down the sysadmin list since it wasn't used but
clarifying the name and description to match how the "dev" list is used I'm
very much for.


On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 7:10 PM, Ben Shum  wrote:

> Since we're bringing up the existing general and dev list
> descriptions, I'd like to raise my question in the past about
> migrating the general and dev list to the new list server instead of
> continuing the present legacy "open-ils-" prefixes on the current
> general and dev (and actually, documentation too) lists.
>
> Perhaps in the process of moving the "dev" list to the community lists
> server, we might consider renaming it to be a bit broader than just
> "dev" meaning developer.  Using something else like "technical" or
> "tech" bridging the gap between purely "developer"-centric
> discussions, which in and of themselves tend to vary in degree of
> usage of the existing dev list as well, but allow us to encompass a
> broader technical discussion list.
>
> Just suggesting that possibility again
>
> -- Ben
>
> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 6:55 PM, Rogan Hamby 
> wrote:
> > I would support refreshing those descriptions to reflect their use more
> > clearly, as Yamil points out.
> >
> >
> > On Wednesday, January 14, 2015, Yamil Suarez 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I am OK with the deletion of the "evergreen-admin". Part of my reason
> >> is that it is not getting as much use as I would have expected. Before
> >> this "evergreen-admin" list existed and while I was a new to the EG
> >> community, I was often not sure if I should post my sysadmin questions
> >> in the general or the developer list, or both. If we do eliminate the
> >> "evergreen-admin," I would love to see a word or two added to the list
> >> descriptions to make it more clear where sysadmin question would be
> >> most welcomed.
> >>
> >>
> >> Currently the descriptions are
> >>
> >> --
> >> General Mailing List
> >>
> >> Evergreen General Discussion List
> >>
> >> This is the general-topic, (usually) non-technical list for the
> >> Evergreen community — Evergreen users, librarians, library workers,
> >> library users, developers, fellow travelers, or people just plain
> >> curious about Evergreen. As of October, 2008, this list had over 500
> >> members. Its traffic is moderate.
> >>
> >> General means general. Posts range from discussions about possible new
> >> features to quick questions about implementation. There is no such
> >> thing as a “dumb” question or comment for the Evergreen general list.
> >> If you’re thinking the question, chances are, you’re in good company.
> >> Ask, and you give other members of the Evergreen community an
> >> opportunity to share their growing knowledge.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---
> >>
> >> Technical Lists
> >>
> >> Evergreen Development Discussion List
> >>
> >> This list is for patches and technical discussions about Evergreen and
> >> OpenSRF development. Messages and responses are often in the shorthand
> >> common to this culture.
> >>
> >>
> >> Just my two cents,
> >> Yamil
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Michael Peters <
> mpet...@emeralddata.net>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Just my 2 cents, but I've always felt IRC was the best place to reach
> >> > other
> >> > sys-admins for advice.  I can't recall ever posting to the mailing
> list
> >> > about a system administration issue.  I know there are so many active
> >> > sys-admins on the IRC that I think the response is likely to be
> quicker
> >> > there.
> >> >
> >> > I'm also more apt to answer a question I see in IRC.  I'm not sure I'm
> >> > even
> >> > subscribed to anything other than Dev and General.
> >> >
> >> > Michael Peters
> >> > Senior Systems Analyst
> >> > Emerald Data Networks, Inc.
> >> > Phone: 678.302.3000 x1013
> >> > Help Desk: 678.302.3000 x1500
> >> > www.emeralddata.net
> >> >
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > From: open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org
> >> > [mailto:open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibrari

Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin" mailing list

[Ben Shum]

Since we're bringing up the existing general and dev list
descriptions, I'd like to raise my question in the past about
migrating the general and dev list to the new list server instead of
continuing the present legacy "open-ils-" prefixes on the current
general and dev (and actually, documentation too) lists.

Perhaps in the process of moving the "dev" list to the community lists
server, we might consider renaming it to be a bit broader than just
"dev" meaning developer.  Using something else like "technical" or
"tech" bridging the gap between purely "developer"-centric
discussions, which in and of themselves tend to vary in degree of
usage of the existing dev list as well, but allow us to encompass a
broader technical discussion list.

Just suggesting that possibility again

-- Ben

On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 6:55 PM, Rogan Hamby  wrote:
> I would support refreshing those descriptions to reflect their use more
> clearly, as Yamil points out.
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 14, 2015, Yamil Suarez  wrote:
>>
>> I am OK with the deletion of the "evergreen-admin". Part of my reason
>> is that it is not getting as much use as I would have expected. Before
>> this "evergreen-admin" list existed and while I was a new to the EG
>> community, I was often not sure if I should post my sysadmin questions
>> in the general or the developer list, or both. If we do eliminate the
>> "evergreen-admin," I would love to see a word or two added to the list
>> descriptions to make it more clear where sysadmin question would be
>> most welcomed.
>>
>>
>> Currently the descriptions are
>>
>> --
>> General Mailing List
>>
>> Evergreen General Discussion List
>>
>> This is the general-topic, (usually) non-technical list for the
>> Evergreen community — Evergreen users, librarians, library workers,
>> library users, developers, fellow travelers, or people just plain
>> curious about Evergreen. As of October, 2008, this list had over 500
>> members. Its traffic is moderate.
>>
>> General means general. Posts range from discussions about possible new
>> features to quick questions about implementation. There is no such
>> thing as a “dumb” question or comment for the Evergreen general list.
>> If you’re thinking the question, chances are, you’re in good company.
>> Ask, and you give other members of the Evergreen community an
>> opportunity to share their growing knowledge.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Technical Lists
>>
>> Evergreen Development Discussion List
>>
>> This list is for patches and technical discussions about Evergreen and
>> OpenSRF development. Messages and responses are often in the shorthand
>> common to this culture.
>>
>>
>> Just my two cents,
>> Yamil
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Michael Peters 
>> wrote:
>> > Just my 2 cents, but I've always felt IRC was the best place to reach
>> > other
>> > sys-admins for advice.  I can't recall ever posting to the mailing list
>> > about a system administration issue.  I know there are so many active
>> > sys-admins on the IRC that I think the response is likely to be quicker
>> > there.
>> >
>> > I'm also more apt to answer a question I see in IRC.  I'm not sure I'm
>> > even
>> > subscribed to anything other than Dev and General.
>> >
>> > Michael Peters
>> > Senior Systems Analyst
>> > Emerald Data Networks, Inc.
>> > Phone: 678.302.3000 x1013
>> > Help Desk: 678.302.3000 x1500
>> > www.emeralddata.net
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org
>> > [mailto:open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org] On Behalf Of
>> > Galen Charlton
>> > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 12:43 PM
>> > To: Evergreen Discussion Group
>> > Subject: Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the
>> > "evergreen-admin"
>> > mailing list
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Chris Sharp
>> > 
>> > wrote:
>> >> In my view, the Evergreen-Admin list duplicates the purpose of this,
>> >> the General list, in that the General list serves as an all-purpose
>> >> venue for (non-development related) technical help in running
>> >> Evergreen.  If you agree, please +1, otherwise, please state you

Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin" mailing list

[Rogan Hamby]

I would support refreshing those descriptions to reflect their use more
clearly, as Yamil points out.

On Wednesday, January 14, 2015, Yamil Suarez  wrote:

> I am OK with the deletion of the "evergreen-admin". Part of my reason
> is that it is not getting as much use as I would have expected. Before
> this "evergreen-admin" list existed and while I was a new to the EG
> community, I was often not sure if I should post my sysadmin questions
> in the general or the developer list, or both. If we do eliminate the
> "evergreen-admin," I would love to see a word or two added to the list
> descriptions to make it more clear where sysadmin question would be
> most welcomed.
>
>
> Currently the descriptions are
>
> --
> General Mailing List
>
> Evergreen General Discussion List
>
> This is the general-topic, (usually) non-technical list for the
> Evergreen community — Evergreen users, librarians, library workers,
> library users, developers, fellow travelers, or people just plain
> curious about Evergreen. As of October, 2008, this list had over 500
> members. Its traffic is moderate.
>
> General means general. Posts range from discussions about possible new
> features to quick questions about implementation. There is no such
> thing as a “dumb” question or comment for the Evergreen general list.
> If you’re thinking the question, chances are, you’re in good company.
> Ask, and you give other members of the Evergreen community an
> opportunity to share their growing knowledge.
>
>
>
> ---
>
> Technical Lists
>
> Evergreen Development Discussion List
>
> This list is for patches and technical discussions about Evergreen and
> OpenSRF development. Messages and responses are often in the shorthand
> common to this culture.
>
>
> Just my two cents,
> Yamil
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Michael Peters  > wrote:
> > Just my 2 cents, but I've always felt IRC was the best place to reach
> other
> > sys-admins for advice.  I can't recall ever posting to the mailing list
> > about a system administration issue.  I know there are so many active
> > sys-admins on the IRC that I think the response is likely to be quicker
> > there.
> >
> > I'm also more apt to answer a question I see in IRC.  I'm not sure I'm
> even
> > subscribed to anything other than Dev and General.
> >
> > Michael Peters
> > Senior Systems Analyst
> > Emerald Data Networks, Inc.
> > Phone: 678.302.3000 x1013
> > Help Desk: 678.302.3000 x1500
> > www.emeralddata.net
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org 
> > [mailto:open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org
> ] On Behalf Of
> > Galen Charlton
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 12:43 PM
> > To: Evergreen Discussion Group
> > Subject: Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the
> "evergreen-admin"
> > mailing list
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Chris Sharp <
> csh...@georgialibraries.org >
> > wrote:
> >> In my view, the Evergreen-Admin list duplicates the purpose of this,
> >> the General list, in that the General list serves as an all-purpose
> >> venue for (non-development related) technical help in running
> >> Evergreen.  If you agree, please +1, otherwise, please state your case
> >> for keeping it. ;-)
> >
> > 0.
> >
> > A dedicated list for Evergreen sysadmins could work in principle, but of
> > course requires that folks actually answer questions posted to it.
> > Since the list was created, there's been long periods where it has been
> > mostly ignored, either passively or actively, and I think it long ago
> > reached the point where reluctance to use it has self-fulfilled a
> prophecy
> > that it would not be used.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Galen
> > --
> > Galen Charlton
> > Manager of Implementation
> > Equinox Software, Inc. / The Open Source Experts
> > email:  g...@esilibrary.com 
> > direct: +1 770-709-5581
> > cell:   +1 404-984-4366
> > skype:  gmcharlt
> > web:http://www.esilibrary.com/
> > Supporting Koha and Evergreen: http://koha-community.org &
> > http://evergreen-ils.org
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> 
>
> Yamil Suarez, MCS
> Library System Administrator/Developer
>
> Stan Getz Library
> Berklee College of Music
> 1140 Boylston St
> Boston, MA 02215
>
> ysua...@berklee.edu 
> 617-747-2617
>


-- 

Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA
Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services,
York County Library System

“You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit
me.”
― C.S. Lewis <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis>

Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin" mailing list

[Yamil Suarez]

I am OK with the deletion of the "evergreen-admin". Part of my reason
is that it is not getting as much use as I would have expected. Before
this "evergreen-admin" list existed and while I was a new to the EG
community, I was often not sure if I should post my sysadmin questions
in the general or the developer list, or both. If we do eliminate the
"evergreen-admin," I would love to see a word or two added to the list
descriptions to make it more clear where sysadmin question would be
most welcomed.


Currently the descriptions are

--
General Mailing List

Evergreen General Discussion List

This is the general-topic, (usually) non-technical list for the
Evergreen community — Evergreen users, librarians, library workers,
library users, developers, fellow travelers, or people just plain
curious about Evergreen. As of October, 2008, this list had over 500
members. Its traffic is moderate.

General means general. Posts range from discussions about possible new
features to quick questions about implementation. There is no such
thing as a “dumb” question or comment for the Evergreen general list.
If you’re thinking the question, chances are, you’re in good company.
Ask, and you give other members of the Evergreen community an
opportunity to share their growing knowledge.



---

Technical Lists

Evergreen Development Discussion List

This list is for patches and technical discussions about Evergreen and
OpenSRF development. Messages and responses are often in the shorthand
common to this culture.


Just my two cents,
Yamil


On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Michael Peters  wrote:
> Just my 2 cents, but I've always felt IRC was the best place to reach other
> sys-admins for advice.  I can't recall ever posting to the mailing list
> about a system administration issue.  I know there are so many active
> sys-admins on the IRC that I think the response is likely to be quicker
> there.
>
> I'm also more apt to answer a question I see in IRC.  I'm not sure I'm even
> subscribed to anything other than Dev and General.
>
> Michael Peters
> Senior Systems Analyst
> Emerald Data Networks, Inc.
> Phone: 678.302.3000 x1013
> Help Desk: 678.302.3000 x1500
> www.emeralddata.net
>
> -Original Message-
> From: open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org
> [mailto:open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org] On Behalf Of
> Galen Charlton
> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 12:43 PM
> To: Evergreen Discussion Group
> Subject: Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin"
> mailing list
>
> Hi,
>
> On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Chris Sharp 
> wrote:
>> In my view, the Evergreen-Admin list duplicates the purpose of this,
>> the General list, in that the General list serves as an all-purpose
>> venue for (non-development related) technical help in running
>> Evergreen.  If you agree, please +1, otherwise, please state your case
>> for keeping it. ;-)
>
> 0.
>
> A dedicated list for Evergreen sysadmins could work in principle, but of
> course requires that folks actually answer questions posted to it.
> Since the list was created, there's been long periods where it has been
> mostly ignored, either passively or actively, and I think it long ago
> reached the point where reluctance to use it has self-fulfilled a prophecy
> that it would not be used.
>
> Regards,
>
> Galen
> --
> Galen Charlton
> Manager of Implementation
> Equinox Software, Inc. / The Open Source Experts
> email:  g...@esilibrary.com
> direct: +1 770-709-5581
> cell:   +1 404-984-4366
> skype:  gmcharlt
> web:http://www.esilibrary.com/
> Supporting Koha and Evergreen: http://koha-community.org &
> http://evergreen-ils.org



-- 





Yamil Suarez, MCS
Library System Administrator/Developer

Stan Getz Library
Berklee College of Music
1140 Boylston St
Boston, MA 02215

ysua...@berklee.edu
617-747-2617

Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin" mailing list

[Michael Peters]

Just my 2 cents, but I've always felt IRC was the best place to reach other 
sys-admins for advice.  I can't recall ever posting to the mailing list 
about a system administration issue.  I know there are so many active 
sys-admins on the IRC that I think the response is likely to be quicker 
there.

I'm also more apt to answer a question I see in IRC.  I'm not sure I'm even 
subscribed to anything other than Dev and General.

Michael Peters
Senior Systems Analyst
Emerald Data Networks, Inc.
Phone: 678.302.3000 x1013
Help Desk: 678.302.3000 x1500
www.emeralddata.net

-Original Message-
From: open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org 
[mailto:open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org] On Behalf Of 
Galen Charlton
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 12:43 PM
To: Evergreen Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin" 
mailing list

Hi,

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Chris Sharp  
wrote:
> In my view, the Evergreen-Admin list duplicates the purpose of this,
> the General list, in that the General list serves as an all-purpose
> venue for (non-development related) technical help in running
> Evergreen.  If you agree, please +1, otherwise, please state your case
> for keeping it. ;-)

0.

A dedicated list for Evergreen sysadmins could work in principle, but of 
course requires that folks actually answer questions posted to it.
Since the list was created, there's been long periods where it has been 
mostly ignored, either passively or actively, and I think it long ago 
reached the point where reluctance to use it has self-fulfilled a prophecy 
that it would not be used.

Regards,

Galen
--
Galen Charlton
Manager of Implementation
Equinox Software, Inc. / The Open Source Experts
email:  g...@esilibrary.com
direct: +1 770-709-5581
cell:   +1 404-984-4366
skype:  gmcharlt
web:http://www.esilibrary.com/
Supporting Koha and Evergreen: http://koha-community.org & 
http://evergreen-ils.org

Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin" mailing list

[Chris Sharp]

More detailed statistics on Evergreen-Admin list usage:

Over the last 12 months, we've had 35 posts from 10 distinct users.

There were 3 unanswered posts from users (who may have followed up on -Dev or 
-General - I haven't cross checked).

There have been 4 posts from 3 distinct users over the last 6 months, and at 
least one of those threads was cross-posted to -General.

My motion to deactivate the list is not intended to sabotage something that 
people find useful, but whatever the reasons, people really aren't using this 
list and the ones who do appear to be getting overlooked (to Kathy's points).  

If you read the IRC meeting log (referenced below), there was a great deal of 
interest in having a separate list, but most who participated in that meeting 
have not participated in Evergreen-Admin list discussions.  Is 2+ years not 
enough time to allow for growth?

Chris

- Original Message -
> From: "Chris Sharp" 
> To: "Evergreen Discussion Group" 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 4:02:23 PM
> Subject: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin"
> mailing list
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I administer or co-administer all of the open-ils/evergreen mailing lists,
> and I would like to make a motion that we deactivate the Evergreen-Admin
> mailing list.  It is a very low-traffic list (maybe a dozen monthly posts at
> its busiest) with low membership (75 members), and most of the questions
> asked there would be appropriate for Open-ILS-General.  The list became
> active in September 2012 in response to an IRC discussion
> (http://evergreen-ils.org/irc_logs/evergreen/2012-05/%23evergreen.18-Fri-2012.log)
> where the majority of attendees wanted a dedicated system administration
> mailing list.
> 
> In my view, the Evergreen-Admin list duplicates the purpose of this, the
> General list, in that the General list serves as an all-purpose venue for
> (non-development related) technical help in running Evergreen.  If you
> agree, please +1, otherwise, please state your case for keeping it. ;-)
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Chris
> 
> --
> Chris Sharp
> PINES System Administrator
> Georgia Public Library Service
> 1800 Century Place, Suite 150
> Atlanta, Georgia 30345
> (404) 235-7147
> csh...@georgialibraries.org
> http://pines.georgialibraries.org/
> 

-- 
Chris Sharp
PINES System Administrator
Georgia Public Library Service
1800 Century Place, Suite 150
Atlanta, Georgia 30345
(404) 235-7147
csh...@georgialibraries.org
http://pines.georgialibraries.org/

Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin" mailing list

[Galen Charlton]

Hi,

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Chris Sharp
 wrote:
> In my view, the Evergreen-Admin list duplicates the purpose of this, the
> General list, in that the General list serves as an all-purpose venue for
> (non-development related) technical help in running Evergreen.  If you
> agree, please +1, otherwise, please state your case for keeping it. ;-)

0.

A dedicated list for Evergreen sysadmins could work in principle, but
of course requires that folks actually answer questions posted to it.
Since the list was created, there's been long periods where it has
been mostly ignored, either passively or actively, and I think it long
ago reached the point where reluctance to use it has self-fulfilled a
prophecy that it would not be used.

Regards,

Galen
-- 
Galen Charlton
Manager of Implementation
Equinox Software, Inc. / The Open Source Experts
email:  g...@esilibrary.com
direct: +1 770-709-5581
cell:   +1 404-984-4366
skype:  gmcharlt
web:http://www.esilibrary.com/
Supporting Koha and Evergreen: http://koha-community.org &
http://evergreen-ils.org

Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin" mailing list

[Kathy Lussier]

Hi all,

When the initial discussion arose about the creation of the sys admin 
list, I sat on the sidelines and watched the discussion, but I didn't 
offer an opinion because I'm not a sys admin, and I think the sys admins 
should make the decision. However, I do subscribe to all the lists, and 
there was a reason why I quickly gave a +1 to Chris' proposal.


On occasion (not often, but, as Chris related, there aren't many posts 
to the list), I have seen people new to the community post a question to 
the list that remains unanswered or requires a follow-up email before 
somebody offers an answer.


I'm picturing a new Evergreener, who is lost trying to figure out this 
system and the community at the same time, sees there is a sys admin 
list available, and posts the question not realizing that there are very 
few people who are monitoring this list and replying to emails.


It's quite possible that those questions would have remained unanswered 
on the general and dev lists too (I've seen the same sequence of events 
happen quite often there too), and maybe eliminating the sys admin list 
wouldn't help those people. But I am concerned that we are doing a 
disservice to new community members by telling them a list is available 
to help them when there don't seem to be many experienced folks who 
could help them actively participating on that list.


On the other hand, the catalogers list, which was set up around the same 
time as the sys admin list, also has less activity than the general 
list, but, when somebody posts a question, there always seem to be many 
catalogers ready to respond.


Just my 2 cents.

Kathy

On 01/14/2015 11:35 AM, Lazar, Alexey Vladimirovich wrote:

-1.

Using similar logic, the cataloguers, web team, reports, DIG and even the dev list 
should also be eliminated. They are all low-traffic and the general list serves as 
the all-purpose venue for any of the content there, because “general" means 
anything and everything.

I suspect that low list membership and low traffic are somewhat of a 
chicken-egg type issue where one leads to another and vice versa.

My counter-recommendation is to invite people to subscribe to all topical lists 
and when posting messages to first consider posting on one of the sub lists and 
then if none fit the bill, use the general list.

In theory, this should lead to a cleaner separation of posts by topic, where 
the general list is used more for general announcements - future development 
proposals, future functionality discussion, new releases, event and community 
announcements - general topics, while more of the specific user and technical 
discussion is done using the topical lists.

On 2015-01-13, at 15:02 , Chris Sharp  wrote:


Hi all,

I administer or co-administer all of the open-ils/evergreen mailing lists, and 
I would like to make a motion that we deactivate the Evergreen-Admin mailing 
list.  It is a very low-traffic list (maybe a dozen monthly posts at its 
busiest) with low membership (75 members), and most of the questions asked 
there would be appropriate for Open-ILS-General.  The list became active in 
September 2012 in response to an IRC discussion 
(http://evergreen-ils.org/irc_logs/evergreen/2012-05/%23evergreen.18-Fri-2012.log)
 where the majority of attendees wanted a dedicated system administration 
mailing list.

In my view, the Evergreen-Admin list duplicates the purpose of this, the 
General list, in that the General list serves as an all-purpose venue for 
(non-development related) technical help in running Evergreen.  If you agree, 
please +1, otherwise, please state your case for keeping it. ;-)

Thanks!

Chris

--
Chris Sharp
PINES System Administrator
Georgia Public Library Service
1800 Century Place, Suite 150
Atlanta, Georgia 30345
(404) 235-7147
csh...@georgialibraries.org
http://pines.georgialibraries.org/

Aleksey Lazar
IS Developer and Integrator - PALS
http://www.mnpals.org/



--
Kathy Lussier
Project Coordinator
Massachusetts Library Network Cooperative
(508) 343-0128
kluss...@masslnc.org
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/kmlussier

Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin" mailing list

[Jason Stephenson]

/me pretty much agrees with Alexey.

Quoting "Lazar, Alexey Vladimirovich" :


-1.

Using similar logic, the cataloguers, web team, reports, DIG and  
even the dev list should also be eliminated. They are all  
low-traffic and the general list serves as the all-purpose venue for  
any of the content there, because “general" means anything and  
everything.


I suspect that low list membership and low traffic are somewhat of a  
chicken-egg type issue where one leads to another and vice versa.


My counter-recommendation is to invite people to subscribe to all  
topical lists and when posting messages to first consider posting on  
one of the sub lists and then if none fit the bill, use the general  
list.


In theory, this should lead to a cleaner separation of posts by  
topic, where the general list is used more for general announcements  
- future development proposals, future functionality discussion, new  
releases, event and community announcements - general topics, while  
more of the specific user and technical discussion is done using the  
topical lists.


On 2015-01-13, at 15:02 , Chris Sharp  wrote:


Hi all,

I administer or co-administer all of the open-ils/evergreen mailing  
lists, and I would like to make a motion that we deactivate the  
Evergreen-Admin mailing list.  It is a very low-traffic list (maybe  
a dozen monthly posts at its busiest) with low membership (75  
members), and most of the questions asked there would be  
appropriate for Open-ILS-General.  The list became active in  
September 2012 in response to an IRC discussion  
(http://evergreen-ils.org/irc_logs/evergreen/2012-05/%23evergreen.18-Fri-2012.log) where the majority of attendees wanted a dedicated system administration mailing  
list.


In my view, the Evergreen-Admin list duplicates the purpose of  
this, the General list, in that the General list serves as an  
all-purpose venue for (non-development related) technical help in  
running Evergreen.  If you agree, please +1, otherwise, please  
state your case for keeping it. ;-)


Thanks!

Chris

--
Chris Sharp
PINES System Administrator
Georgia Public Library Service
1800 Century Place, Suite 150
Atlanta, Georgia 30345
(404) 235-7147
csh...@georgialibraries.org
http://pines.georgialibraries.org/


Aleksey Lazar
IS Developer and Integrator - PALS
http://www.mnpals.org/



--
Jason Stephenson
Assistant Director for Technology Services
Merrimack Valley Library Consortium
1600 Osgood ST, Suite 2094
North Andover, MA 01845
Phone: 978-557-5891
Email: jstephen...@mvlc.org

Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin" mailing list

[Lazar, Alexey Vladimirovich]

-1.

Using similar logic, the cataloguers, web team, reports, DIG and even the dev 
list should also be eliminated. They are all low-traffic and the general list 
serves as the all-purpose venue for any of the content there, because “general" 
means anything and everything.

I suspect that low list membership and low traffic are somewhat of a 
chicken-egg type issue where one leads to another and vice versa. 

My counter-recommendation is to invite people to subscribe to all topical lists 
and when posting messages to first consider posting on one of the sub lists and 
then if none fit the bill, use the general list. 

In theory, this should lead to a cleaner separation of posts by topic, where 
the general list is used more for general announcements - future development 
proposals, future functionality discussion, new releases, event and community 
announcements - general topics, while more of the specific user and technical 
discussion is done using the topical lists.

On 2015-01-13, at 15:02 , Chris Sharp  wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I administer or co-administer all of the open-ils/evergreen mailing lists, 
> and I would like to make a motion that we deactivate the Evergreen-Admin 
> mailing list.  It is a very low-traffic list (maybe a dozen monthly posts at 
> its busiest) with low membership (75 members), and most of the questions 
> asked there would be appropriate for Open-ILS-General.  The list became 
> active in September 2012 in response to an IRC discussion 
> (http://evergreen-ils.org/irc_logs/evergreen/2012-05/%23evergreen.18-Fri-2012.log)
>  where the majority of attendees wanted a dedicated system administration 
> mailing list.
> 
> In my view, the Evergreen-Admin list duplicates the purpose of this, the 
> General list, in that the General list serves as an all-purpose venue for 
> (non-development related) technical help in running Evergreen.  If you agree, 
> please +1, otherwise, please state your case for keeping it. ;-)
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Chris
> 
> -- 
> Chris Sharp
> PINES System Administrator
> Georgia Public Library Service
> 1800 Century Place, Suite 150
> Atlanta, Georgia 30345
> (404) 235-7147
> csh...@georgialibraries.org
> http://pines.georgialibraries.org/

Aleksey Lazar
IS Developer and Integrator - PALS
http://www.mnpals.org/

Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin" mailing list

[Rogan Hamby]

+1 to killing with fire

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 4:03 PM, Ben Shum  wrote:

> +1, deactivate.
>
> On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Chris Sharp
>  wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I administer or co-administer all of the open-ils/evergreen mailing
> lists, and I would like to make a motion that we deactivate the
> Evergreen-Admin mailing list.  It is a very low-traffic list (maybe a dozen
> monthly posts at its busiest) with low membership (75 members), and most of
> the questions asked there would be appropriate for Open-ILS-General.  The
> list became active in September 2012 in response to an IRC discussion (
> http://evergreen-ils.org/irc_logs/evergreen/2012-05/%23evergreen.18-Fri-2012.log)
> where the majority of attendees wanted a dedicated system administration
> mailing list.
> >
> > In my view, the Evergreen-Admin list duplicates the purpose of this, the
> General list, in that the General list serves as an all-purpose venue for
> (non-development related) technical help in running Evergreen.  If you
> agree, please +1, otherwise, please state your case for keeping it. ;-)
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > --
> > Chris Sharp
> > PINES System Administrator
> > Georgia Public Library Service
> > 1800 Century Place, Suite 150
> > Atlanta, Georgia 30345
> > (404) 235-7147
> > csh...@georgialibraries.org
> > http://pines.georgialibraries.org/
>
>
>
> --
> Benjamin Shum
> Evergreen Systems Manager
> Bibliomation, Inc.
> 24 Wooster Ave.
> Waterbury, CT 06708
> 203-577-4070, ext. 113
>



-- 

Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA
Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services,
York County Library System

“You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit
me.”
― C.S. Lewis 

Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin" mailing list

[Ben Shum]

+1, deactivate.

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Chris Sharp
 wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I administer or co-administer all of the open-ils/evergreen mailing lists, 
> and I would like to make a motion that we deactivate the Evergreen-Admin 
> mailing list.  It is a very low-traffic list (maybe a dozen monthly posts at 
> its busiest) with low membership (75 members), and most of the questions 
> asked there would be appropriate for Open-ILS-General.  The list became 
> active in September 2012 in response to an IRC discussion 
> (http://evergreen-ils.org/irc_logs/evergreen/2012-05/%23evergreen.18-Fri-2012.log)
>  where the majority of attendees wanted a dedicated system administration 
> mailing list.
>
> In my view, the Evergreen-Admin list duplicates the purpose of this, the 
> General list, in that the General list serves as an all-purpose venue for 
> (non-development related) technical help in running Evergreen.  If you agree, 
> please +1, otherwise, please state your case for keeping it. ;-)
>
> Thanks!
>
> Chris
>
> --
> Chris Sharp
> PINES System Administrator
> Georgia Public Library Service
> 1800 Century Place, Suite 150
> Atlanta, Georgia 30345
> (404) 235-7147
> csh...@georgialibraries.org
> http://pines.georgialibraries.org/



-- 
Benjamin Shum
Evergreen Systems Manager
Bibliomation, Inc.
24 Wooster Ave.
Waterbury, CT 06708
203-577-4070, ext. 113

[OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Motion to deactivate the "evergreen-admin" mailing list

[Chris Sharp]

Hi all,

I administer or co-administer all of the open-ils/evergreen mailing lists, and 
I would like to make a motion that we deactivate the Evergreen-Admin mailing 
list.  It is a very low-traffic list (maybe a dozen monthly posts at its 
busiest) with low membership (75 members), and most of the questions asked 
there would be appropriate for Open-ILS-General.  The list became active in 
September 2012 in response to an IRC discussion 
(http://evergreen-ils.org/irc_logs/evergreen/2012-05/%23evergreen.18-Fri-2012.log)
 where the majority of attendees wanted a dedicated system administration 
mailing list.

In my view, the Evergreen-Admin list duplicates the purpose of this, the 
General list, in that the General list serves as an all-purpose venue for 
(non-development related) technical help in running Evergreen.  If you agree, 
please +1, otherwise, please state your case for keeping it. ;-)

Thanks!

Chris

-- 
Chris Sharp
PINES System Administrator
Georgia Public Library Service
1800 Century Place, Suite 150
Atlanta, Georgia 30345
(404) 235-7147
csh...@georgialibraries.org
http://pines.georgialibraries.org/