Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Future of the desktop
Brian Cameron wrote: The JDS team is working to provide the CBE and the Sun patches needed to build the desktop, so is it similarly straightforward for someone to build the Xserver for Solaris? Does the Xserver team apply patches, use nondefault build options, or otherwise modify the Xserver code we build that we should share with OpenSolaris users? Schillix can run today with Xorg 6.8.2. It's not identical to what we ship in Solaris, but it's close enough for a first pass at the Xorg server. (It's much farther from our libraries and applications, and the differences in Xsun run into the hundreds of thousands of lines, not counting the wholly encumbered DPS system.) We are doing similar work to the JDS team (and have actually been working on it longer, since we didn't have the distraction of finishing up the JDS3/Linux release first), and I've actually shared our configuration options with Joerg.We have a bunch of source changes too - many of which are already in the Xorg CVS for 6.9, so at least initially, our source deltas should drop dramatically in the very near future. The biggest obstacle to getting our Xorg changes up on opensolaris.org is figuring out how to post them to opensolaris.org. I've been waiting for the opensolaris.org team to get higher priority things off their todo list before pestering them to figure out how to do this. -- -Alan Coopersmith- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Future of the desktop
On Tue, 2005-07-19 at 14:56 -0500, Eric Boutilier wrote: So what I should have said is, Blastwave's GNOME build (set of custom patches) is the leading community-based build. Agreed :) Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Java Desktop System Group http://ie.sun.com +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Future of the desktop
Joerg, I'm not sure what you mean by Solaris / CDE in this context? To reiterate what we are planning and to try clarify things (I hope) : JDS, as a desktop platform, is essentially GNOME, in that we take GNOME packages and apply patches (which include bug fixes, some features and branding) - but in it's full meaning it also includes StarOffice and Mozilla and other such apps, to provide a more complete desktop solution. Separating these out - leaving non-GNOME to be handled in their own respective areas - what Brian is saying that we intend to publish the CBE [1] and source deltas (aka patches) that we use internally to generate the JDS/GNOME desktop. We do not intend to in any way duplicate the code that already exists in the GNOME.org CVS archives on OpenSolaris.org (if we did we would be creating a fork which we want to avoid at all costs). The CBE should automatically pull the necessary GNOME sources from gnome.org as needed. The CBE we use for JDS internally is based on the pkgbuild (http://pkgbuild.sourceforge.net/) tool that Laca (aka Laszlo Peter, who produced pkgbuild and is also our main RE person in the JDS group in Sun). These tools work off rpm type .spec files (actually is possible to share these .spec files with the Linux build system - we do this too), and generate Solaris Packages. The CBE also includes things like the compiler, automake packages and more. The general idea is that given the JDS CBE it should be possible for anyone to build GNOME plus the JDS branding patches on Open Solaris and produce a set of Solaris packages for distribution. Ultimately what we would like to do is to minimise the set of patches that we have to use for JDS so that we can work as closely as possible to the main development branches of GNOME, which ultimately will enable us to be more involved in the GNOME community when decisions are being made, but also ensure that the latest tarballs will build easily on Solaris. Hope this clarifies things, Thanks, Darren. [1] CBE - Common Build Environment Joerg Schilling wrote: Brian Cameron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The intent is to make the build system and patches we use to build and brand GNOME into JDS available to the OpenSolaris community. Many of these patches are necessary since GNOME to get the code to build and to integrate GNOME properly with Solaris. Not all patches can go back to the GNOME community (GTK+/mediaLib integration and branding for example), but we are working to get patches that allow vanilla GNOME to build and work properly on Solaris upstream. So you integrate GNUME into Solaris or into Solaris/CDE? Jörg ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Future of the desktop
Darren Kenny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure what you mean by Solaris / CDE in this context? To reiterate what we are planning and to try clarify things (I hope) : JDS, as a desktop platform, is essentially GNOME, in that we take GNOME packages and apply patches (which include bug fixes, some features and branding) - but in it's full meaning it also includes StarOffice and Mozilla and other such apps, to provide a more complete desktop solution. If I look at Sun Solaris, I see that the login screen used by Sun is the CDE login screen and that a lot of programs are located under /usr/dt/* If JDS is build in a way that depends on CDE, then it cannot be used on OpenSolaris as CDE is not freely available/distributable. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED](work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Future of the desktop
On 7/19/05, Darren Kenny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At present dtlogin is the default login process, but you can change to using GDM2 if you so desire, just disable the rc*/*dtlogin scripts and enable the GDM2 service (under SMF). The easiest way of which is to do: To switch to using GDM instead of dtlogin you can do the following: Select Command Line login from the dtlogin screen. Login as root and run the following commands. # /usr/dt/bin/dtconfig -kill # /usr/dt/bin/dtconfig -d # ((sleep 5 svcadm enable -s gdm2-login)) ; exit GDM will start now, the sleep and backgrounding are to ensure your shell exits. GDM will be the graphic login manager on subsequent reboots. Note that the FMRI for GDM may change in a future release of Solaris as it is an Unstable interface (as per the definition in attributes(5)). From: http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/darren/20050318 -- Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/ ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Future of the desktop
Darren: At present dtlogin is the default login process, but you can change to using GDM2 if you so desire, just disable the rc*/*dtlogin scripts and enable the GDM2 service (under SMF). Yes, we ship GDM2 with Solaris. CDE login is the default login program in Solaris. I'm not sure what login you get in OpenSolaris by default. To disable starting of CDE login on startup, you can run: /usr/dt/bin/dtconfig -d To specify GDM should be started at login you run: svcadm enable application/gdm2-login Though we are in the middle of changing the service name for GDM, so in future builds, it may instead be: svcadm enable application/graphical-login/gdm Yes, we are working to make GDM2 the default Solaris login program, though it isn't clear yet if this will go into S10 or S11. Brian ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Future of the desktop
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, Calum Benson wrote: On Tue, 2005-07-19 at 13:39 -0500, Eric Boutilier wrote: ... From what I'm hearing, it's more likely that vanilla community versions of the JDS components (GNOME, Mozilla etc.) will be made available under the OpenSolaris umbrella... Blastwave's GNOME implementation -- which in this context is vanilla GNOME -- is the leading (the only?) vanilla GNOME for Solaris. I just thought I'd insert this fact because it might make sense for the groups to join forces and leverage each other -- especially in light of Blastwave's forthcoming new build system. Since it was me who wrote that original sentence, I should add that I'm totally in favour of that... I was just trying to outline things in general terms :) FWIW though, I'm not entirely convinced that you can really have an 'implementation' of vanilla GNOME (or vanilla anything else); IMHO you can only have the source code and/or a build... Hmm, good point. I misunderstood some of the messages in this thread to mean that there are a lot of customizations in the JDS version of GNOME, but looking back I see that people were really saying that it's mostly just vanilla, plus bug fixes. So what I should have said is, Blastwave's GNOME build (set of custom patches) is the leading community-based build. --Eric (It's also quite possible to build community GNOME 2.10 from cvs on Solaris with jhbuild, for example, and some folks here already have, but you couldn't really call that an 'implementation'...) Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Java Desktop System Group http://ie.sun.com +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Future of the desktop
Brian Cameron wrote: Yes, we ship GDM2 with Solaris. CDE login is the default login program in Solaris. I'm not sure what login you get in OpenSolaris by default. Command line.(OpenSolaris is simply the release of the Solaris ON consolidation source code so far. No X. There's also not anyone out there really running something you can call OpenSolaris - they are running either Solaris Express or Schillix, which are OpenSolaris plus more bits from other places - in the case of Solaris Express, many more bits.) -- -Alan Coopersmith- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Future of the desktop
Alan: Yes, we ship GDM2 with Solaris. CDE login is the default login program in Solaris. I'm not sure what login you get in OpenSolaris by default. Command line.(OpenSolaris is simply the release of the Solaris ON consolidation source code so far. No X. There's also not anyone out there really running something you can call OpenSolaris - they are running either Solaris Express or Schillix, which are OpenSolaris plus more bits from other places - in the case of Solaris Express, many more bits.) The JDS team is working to provide the CBE and the Sun patches needed to build the desktop, so is it similarly straightforward for someone to build the Xserver for Solaris? Does the Xserver team apply patches, use nondefault build options, or otherwise modify the Xserver code we build that we should share with OpenSolaris users? Brian ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Future of the desktop
--- Eric Boutilier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, Calum Benson wrote: On Tue, 2005-07-19 at 13:39 -0500, Eric Boutilier wrote: ... From what I'm hearing, it's more likely that vanilla community versions of the JDS components (GNOME, Mozilla etc.) will be made available under the OpenSolaris umbrella... Blastwave's GNOME implementation -- which in this context is vanilla GNOME -- is the leading (the only?) vanilla GNOME for Solaris. I just thought I'd insert this fact because it might make sense for the groups to join forces and leverage each other -- especially in light of Blastwave's forthcoming new build system. Since it was me who wrote that original sentence, I should add that I'm totally in favour of that... I was just trying to outline things in general terms :) FWIW though, I'm not entirely convinced that you can really have an 'implementation' of vanilla GNOME (or vanilla anything else); IMHO you can only have the source code and/or a build... Hmm, good point. I misunderstood some of the messages in this thread to mean that there are a lot of customizations in the JDS version of GNOME, but looking back I see that people were really saying that it's mostly just vanilla, plus bug fixes. So what I should have said is, Blastwave's GNOME build (set of custom patches) is the leading community-based build. --Eric (It's also quite possible to build community GNOME 2.10 from cvs on Solaris with jhbuild, for example, and some folks here already have, but you couldn't really call that an 'implementation'...) Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Java Desktop System Group http://ie.sun.com +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems The nice thing is both the community and Sun is building GNOME 2.10.x and providing a means to an end. I actually started building GNOME 2.10.2/2.11.5 in preparation of GNOME 2.12.0. in which I ran into the Totem 1.1.3 package I mentioned earlier with the NVTV Out feature. These packages seem a lot smoother in their transition to Solaris whch wasn't the case of certain source packages during GNOME 2.6-2.8. Either way, the Solaris community has a large collection of free desktops and some of the latest versions. Most Linux distributions don't deliver that nor the level of upkeep of packages - although Gentoo/Ubuntu/Debian/Slackware and many other do an excellent job and even bug tracking. What really is nice is that we have Sunfreeware, Blastwave, Sun engineers (like the JDS team) and many others picking up speed in delivering open source packages and providing the latest versions of Mozilla, OpenOffice, Firefox, and KDE/GNOME. It would be nice to see JDS done with GNOME 2.12.x or at least backport some of the latest apps to a GNOME 2.10.x release. I'm amazing at how much talent is out in the open source world willing to donate time and energy to produce quality free desktops. Ken Mays @ EarthLink, Inc. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: Future of the desktop
On Fri, 2005-07-15 at 11:04 -0700, Daniel Johnsen wrote: a week ago I read, that the development resources for the Java Desktop System will be decreased, All Sun has said is that we'll be focusing more on Solaris and less on Linux... just like we did when we first joined the GNOME Foundation back in 2000. IMHO, the period between then and Sun's release of GNOME 2.0 on Solaris represented one of our most productive periods of involvement with the opsn source desktop community... but since the Linux versions of the stuff we picked up for JDS 'just worked' to a large extent, we had less need to get involved with them, and spent more time on branding and other Sun-specific stuff instead. Thank God Open Solaris doesn't have to worry about JDS branding success or issues. But I have to ask which Sun-specific stuff is or will be part of Open Solaris? ---Bob This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Future of the desktop
On Mon, 2005-07-18 at 07:06 -0700, Bob Palowoda wrote: Thank God Open Solaris doesn't have to worry about JDS branding success or issues. But I have to ask which Sun-specific stuff is or will be part of Open Solaris? I don't think anyone knows the answer to that yet, but I'm pretty sure we're all hoping that it will be as little as possible. From what I'm hearing, it's more likely that vanilla community versions of the JDS components (GNOME, Mozilla etc.) will be made available under the OpenSolaris umbrella, and after that it will be partly up to the community to decide whether it would make sense to include some or any of the feature patches that are currently unique to JDS. (Of which, frankly, there are currently too many, and we'd like to get the majority of them back upstream ASAP anyway.) Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Java Desktop System Group http://ie.sun.com +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: Future of the desktop
The only thing I have heard about JDS development is that the focus was shifting to JDS/Solaris instead of JDS/Linux. Are you certain about this? Can you quote a source? I don't think SUN would speak this out that directly. They aimed to create an alternate to Windows: http://www.sun.com/smi/Press/sunflash/2003-08/sunflash.20030813.1.html Now you can say, it's working, it's an alternate, but I am sure internally SUN shares my view. But no, I don't have offical sources, that quote a statement like this. I just heard some people, sharing the same opinion I do. While I respect that is your opinion, please don't start KDE vs. GNOME flamewars using inflammatory language. I know this topic can easily lead to a flame war, but I don't think my message has the potential to start one. You see, I also told what I like on Gnome, that KDE isn't perfect, and that I prefer KDE. But I accept people who don't like it (flavours are different). I am really serious about this, and I hope the OpenSolaris community is able to give their opinions about this topic without flaming. (btw, take a look at the Topic Solaris vs. Linux, some threads ago, this is a flame topic, too). This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: Future of the desktop
While I respect that is your opinion, please don't start KDE vs. GNOME flamewars using inflammatory language. hey, they are so much fun...:-) and I have to admit that gnome developers have no regard for portability. kde 3.4.1 compiles OOB on solaris, while every other pkg for gnome 2.10.1 needs a manual patch. KDE is a mature codebase and developers there have much more respect for OS's other than linux (I even once did a cygwin port of KDE just for kicks, and it works looks exactly like solaris/linux KDE, for its mass). but this is MY personal view and experience with each of them. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: Future of the desktop
My two cents (from someone who has been using Linux desktops since the late 90's): since JDS stayed behind the expectations. JDS never took off b/c imho it was based on a platform (GPL/Linux) that was, on hindsight, never suitable for a desktop OS. A desktop involves as much hardware as it does software. GPL was developed strictly from the point of view of software. Essentially all the GPL demigods fail to recognize that while software can be protected by copyrights, hardware cannot. For a hardware company, once you open source your little secret, you are instantly reduced to nothing. Your shareholders will never allow you to do that, and if you do, there is a potential for criminal liabilities. (If you are from Linux background, treat my last statement as FUD.) We have several clients in Taiwan which are hardware manufacturers (memory, OEM notebooks, motherboards, graphic chipsets, ASICs, etc.) The insistence of GPL to exclude proprietary hardware drivers from the kernel absolutely excludes them from having any interest in Linux desktops. (Many of them are interested in embedded Linux, but that's a different story.) Most desktop hardware manufacturers also don't have the resources to write drivers for Linux. One of the key reasons why Microsoft Windows has been so successful is that, at least in the beginning, it never trusted hardware makers to write drivers themselves. Instead, Microsoft devoted a good chunk of resources to help hardware makers to, under NDA, write drivers. In Linux, in addition to the exclusionary obstacles of GPL, there are also concerns (grave) about the enforcibility of an NDA with a kernel developer. (So I breached the NDA. So what? Sue me--and you will get nothing but bad publicity and a perpetual curse by the Linux community.) This concern may not be well founded, but it nevertheless exists. I don't know how many respected participants of this forum have used the proprietary nVidia drivers in Linux. You need this proprietary driver for even some of the mundane functionalities such as dual-head, TV-out, STR, etc.--the native (i.e., open-sourced) nv driver simply won't cut it. Since the nVidia driver cannot be included in the kernel, every time you update the kernel, you will lose your graphics (this can be a shocking experience to a lot of desktop users) until you recompile the link interface. I don't have enough experience with Solaris to make any comment that can be taken seriously. However, as I mentioned in a previous thread, I have noticed that JDS (more particularly StarOffice 7) behaves much better (faster, more polished) on Solaris 10 than GNOME on Fedora Core ( 1 through 4). I understand that this comparison may not be fair since Sun might have jointly developed the graphic driver with nVidia (under an NDA). However, isn't lack of cooperation (b/t kernel developers and hardware makers) one of the most critical weaknesses of Linux? OTOH, this can, indeed, be one of the strongest arguments for Solaris to be accepted as the platform for opensourced desktops. Better take a look at KDE. My experience with KDE, vis-a-vis GNOME, is that KDE has more bells and whistles but not as stable as GNOME, especially after GNOME 2.6. More recently, I have been using GNOME (on Fedora Core 3 and 4) exclusively because of its integration with iiimf. I will be willing to consider KDE if iiimf is similarly integrated. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: Future of the desktop
I know this topic can easily lead to a flame war, but I don't think my message has the potential to start one. You see, I also told what I like on Gnome, that KDE isn't perfect, and that I prefer KDE. But I accept people who don't like it (flavours are different). I am really serious about this, and I hope the OpenSolaris community is able to give their opinions about this topic without flaming. (btw, take a look at the Topic Solaris vs. Linux, some threads ago, this is a flame topic, too). I'm sure we can all agree that there is plenty of room for both GNOME and KDE on OpenSolaris. To answer the question of why Sun chose GNOME over KDE as the basis for JDS, one good place to start is the answer to that question in Sun's GNOME 2.0 FAQ (oddly, this is not in the JDS FAQ): http://www.sun.com/software/star/gnome/faq/generalfaq.xml#q23 Q: Why did Sun choose to support GNOME instead of KDE? A: GNOME and KDE are both powerful desktop environments. Sun has completed a comprehensive technical review of both environments and concluded that GNOME's architecture is a better match for Sun's software strategy, which promotes the creation and use of highly distributed, network-savvy software, as well as easy access to data wherever it might be located. One example is GNOME's innovative use of CORBA for network-aware interprocess communication between disparate systems. Others are the Bonobo component architecture, which enables easier creation of compound documents and system-wide scripting while promoting code reuse, and GConf, the network- and component-aware configuration management system. I would add that GNOME fits the UNIX model of a whole bunch of little pieces, each doing one thing well better than KDE's more pragmatic, but also more monolithic, division into kdebase, kdelibs, etc. The downside is that you have to deal with a whole bunch of little pieces of GNOME all being developed independently of each other (and it is a huge pain to compile it yourself, esp. since garnome doesn't work on Solaris!), but the upside is that you can generally update an individual component without having to rebuild the rest of GNOME. It also made sense for Sun to avoid having to deal with providing two different versions of every C++ shared library, one for Sun C++ and the other for GCC (plus, when they started, I believe GCC's C++ ABI had not even been frozen yet). Both KDE and GNOME have made great strides in the past few years, and both have always had the goals of consistency and ease-of-use necessary in order to put UNIX on the average person's desktop. Sun decided to go with GNOME several years ago, as did Red Hat and SuSE. The interesting thing about KDE is that it succeeded as a completely self-contained project, regardless of the official sanction of any Linux/UNIX vendor (besides Linspire). I'm not sure that GNOME would have reached the same level of success without the contributions of Red Hat and Sun, and so it's understandable that they would be committed to staying with that platform in order to protect their investments in bringing it to where it is today. -- Jake This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Future of the desktop
--- W. Wayne Liauh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My two cents (from someone who has been using Linux desktops since the late 90's): since JDS stayed behind the expectations. JDS never took off b/c imho it was based on a platform (GPL/Linux) that was, on hindsight, never suitable for a desktop OS. A desktop involves as much hardware as it does software. GPL was developed strictly from the point of view of software. Essentially all the GPL demigods fail to recognize that while software can be protected by copyrights, hardware cannot. For a hardware company, once you open source your little secret, you are instantly reduced to nothing. Your shareholders will never allow you to do that, and if you do, there is a potential for criminal liabilities. (If you are from Linux background, treat my last statement as FUD.) Most desktop hardware manufacturers also don't have the resources to write drivers for Linux. I don't know how many respected participants of this forum have used the proprietary nVidia drivers in Linux. You need this proprietary driver for even some of the mundane functionalities such as dual-head, TV-out, STR, etc.--the native (i.e., open-sourced) nv driver simply won't cut it. Since the nVidia driver cannot be included in the kernel, every time you update the kernel, you will lose your graphics (this can be a shocking experience to a lot of desktop users) until you recompile the link interface. I don't have enough experience with Solaris to make any comment that can be taken seriously. However, as I mentioned in a previous thread, I have noticed that JDS (more particularly StarOffice 7) behaves much better (faster, more polished) on Solaris 10 than GNOME on Fedora Core ( 1 through 4). I understand that this comparison may not be fair since Sun might have jointly developed the graphic driver with nVidia (under an NDA). However, isn't lack of cooperation (b/t kernel developers and hardware makers) one of the most critical weaknesses of Linux? OTOH, this can, indeed, be one of the strongest arguments for Solaris to be accepted as the platform for opensourced desktops. Better take a look at KDE. My experience with KDE, vis-a-vis GNOME, is that KDE has more bells and whistles but not as stable as GNOME, especially after GNOME 2.6. More recently, I have been using GNOME (on Fedora Core 3 and 4) exclusively because of its integration with iiimf. I will be willing to consider KDE if iiimf is similarly integrated. This message posted from opensolaris.org I like this message enough to comment on a few things. 1. KDE =v3.3.x is pretty stable on Solaris. Has been for quite some time. 2. Totem uses the Nvidia driver for the TV-out feature. I was building the latest source just recently and there it was. Goes to show you that we better keep those DVD players in mind 3. GNOME is a good desktop and although you have to add the optional 'eye candy' and clean up a few things to get it looking spiffy. JDS is proof of that. Both desktops are going to attract different people like when people buy cars. Not one glove fits all customers all of the time. Note: GNOME is just a lot more work in the building and packaging of the GNOME base platform and desktop sources. That is its drawback and benefit - depending how you look at it. Once you understand how to build GNOME and automate the process, it is like building a car or the space shuttle (ok, maybe not). Just takes a little time and axle grease. KDE and GNOME are just preferences like Window XP or Mac OSX. Each will have its loyal followers. Each person will have their rants and raves. The key thing is the user can run GNOME and CDE apps using KDE as their desktop or KDE/CDE apps under GNOME/JDS if they want. That should be something we strive for in the future of OpenSolaris and Solaris... Ken Mays @ EarthLink, Inc. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
