[opensource-dev] UI Map

[miss c]

Hello,

I am working on a new skin for Viewer 2.XX.  I noticed that some of the 
textures 
aren't even used and I am having difficulty finding the referencing commands to 
apply them.  Example would be the bottom panel background image, which doesn't 
appear to be referenced in any of the xmls.  Is there a UI map or list of 
appropriate commands to apply the images?  I have made many changes but none 
seem to take effect.

Thank you
Miss



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] UI Map

[miss c]

I noticed that when I go into the debug menu on the login page to access the UI 
tools, under the widget option there is a link to view widget lists, but it 
takes me to wiki.lindenlab.com which is password protected.  Would be so nice 
to 
have access to those lists.

TY

Miss





From: miss c 
To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 11:56:44 PM
Subject: [opensource-dev] UI Map


Hello,

I am working on a new skin for Viewer 2.XX.  I noticed that some of the 
textures 
aren't even used and I am having difficulty finding the referencing commands to 
apply them.  Example would be the bottom panel background image, which doesn't 
appear to be referenced in any of the xmls.  Is there a UI map or list of 
appropriate commands to apply the images?  I have made many changes but none 
seem to take effect.

Thank you
Miss


  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] User Story: Inventory Sorting

[miss c]

Zha,

I might be able to accomplish some of these requests within the skin UI.  The 
UI 
for 2.xx is so amazing, I am so thrilled to be digging into it after working in 
the 1.XX UI, bleh.  It would be a lot more helpful to us all if you had a list 
of specific suggestions, rather than burying requests in vague expectations.  I 
understand your frustration, going from Microsoft based terminology to Adobe 
terminology a few years ago was quite a task for me.  At this point though, the 
viewer terminology seems quite self explanitory to me with my current 
knowledge, 
can you please point out specific terminology which may be confusing to the 
average user?

TY

Miss





From: Zha Ewry 
To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Tue, September 21, 2010 10:48:38 AM
Subject: [opensource-dev] User Story: Inventory Sorting

As a user I want to be able to sort my inventory with tools which 
embody familiar metaphors from Windows,  Mac and Linux file browsers.  I expect 
a folder system which exposes attributes in a familiar fashion and permits 
sorting of those attributes in a consistent fashion. I expect folders to be 
sorted by date as well as their contents. I expect to be able to leverage my 
experience as a computer user and find common metaphors such as  sorting 
columns 
 implemented in the inventory sorter. I expect to be able to create deeply 
nested folder structures and easily find things based on most recently added, 
most recently modified, I expect a consistent approach to displaying nested 
material throughout the viewer. I expect to be able to select which details are 
exposed in an inventory view, and I expect column sorting implemented in a 
familiar fashion. 

~ Zha Ewry



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Possibility to revert UI changes on snowstorm?

[miss c]

The point is people do not like change.  I love the new UI and to assist people 
with making that change I have been working today on making the UI look similar 
to the old one.  Such a coincidence this was brought up.  Its going to be the 
same color scheme with a few shiny upgrades to make it look more state of the 
art.  See link...  
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4113/5012955294_3f0d0de19b_b.jpg

Miss







From: Mike Monkowski 
To: Ponzu 
Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Tue, September 21, 2010 2:40:47 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Possibility to revert UI changes on snowstorm?

I don't know what a model-view-controller approach is, but if you say it 
adds an extra layer of abstraction, then it doesn't matter anyway.

The UI is defined in XML and so is called XUI.  Admiral Admiral and I 
wrote some patches that, among other things, let you instantiate a 
floater from XML on the fly so that you could edit XML and reload 
immediately to see the effect of your changes.  See VWR-10924. 
Unfortunately the 2.x changes stomped all over the code affected by the 
patches and made it incompatible.

1.x was starting to implement callback functions that could be 
referenced by name rather than hardcoded as part of the floater 
initialization routine.  That was a good step toward being customizable. 
  I think there were some people in Linden Lab that may have been headed 
in that direction.

It's not "really hard."  It's just a matter of priorities.

Mike


Ponzu wrote:
> 
> 
> On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Daniel Smith  > wrote:
> 
>  
> 
> 
> +1 for customization.
> 
> An effort to merge the 1.x and 2.x UI into a viewer with a highly 
> customizable interface might be fun.  At some point, I could even see 
> the Lindens being officially tasked with that effort.  For right now, it 
> is unlikely to be the Lindens who lead that way.
>  
> Could you break the Viewer into two parts, the innards and then UI.  
> Sort of a model-view-controller approach?  Make the View a separate 
> process perhaps, that talks to the controller-model?  That might be 
> useful to people who want SL on their iPhone 8-)
>  
> Sounds really hard to me, plus the extra layer of abstraction will 
> contribute to lag.  (Imagine a graphics engine that creates a movie 
> file, and then streams that to your phone).
>  

___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Possibility to revert UI changes on snowstorm?

[miss c]

AK,

I totally agree with you, the new functionality is awesome!  The problem is the 
UI, with 2.xx you can change just about anything in the UI compared to the old 
viewer where it was hard coded into the viewer.  I know that my husband was 
able 
to remove the sidebar completely and resize it, although I am not sure where he 
did that.   I know that Hitomi was able to move some of the buttons around on 
the interface with just skin commands.  I am just starting to get my feet wet 
in 
this new UI and figure out where everything is.   Sadly I am not a coder, but I 
want to do my part to help, and this is something I can do! ...  which is make 
the UI more user friendly, and more familiar.  


:)

Miss





From: "a...@skyhighway.com" 
To: miss_c...@yahoo.com
Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Tue, September 21, 2010 4:59:36 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Possibility to revert UI changes on snowstorm?

Miss C,

as someone who's complained bitterly about the Viewer 2 UI, i wanna say
that i *like* change.  It just has to mean something.  It has to make
things better, not just different.  My opinion has been that the Viewer 2
UI seems to be trying to fix a lot of stuff that wasn't broken.  i think
what i'm criticizing is called "gratuitous change."

The added & improved functionality in Viewer 2 is awesome!  Everybody who
worked on that should feel real happy with themselves!  It's the using of
the functionality that's the problem.

It's not even stuff that skins are for.  Maybe people like shiny buttons,
or 3D ones, or whatever kinda color schemes.  Maybe even rearranged
toolbars & whatever.  The problem is pointless changes in the way a user
has to do the same things, things that were easy that are now more
complicated (or impossible!) without any perceivable reason for them being
that way, and drastic presentation changes that alter the way a person
feels about using the interface.

The UI isn't like looking in the closet in the morning to decide what to
wear, and matching earring & necklace selection to mood.  It's more like
where everything is in the kitchen, whether you can cook yourself an egg
sandwich for breakfast or have to eat some of McD's cardboard - or go
hungry until dinner, and whether you ride the bus or your bike to work. 
(Especially if it's raining!)

My biggest complaint has been that Viewer 2 UI's biggest change is making
SL less "real."  For me, that's the way wrong direction!  Instead of
browserfication of the controls and experience, i'd like to see things
moving more in the direction of controls and displays like enhanced
reality.  i think browserfication is going backwards.  i think others
agree?

Sorry if this msg was too long and sorta off-topic.  i'll go back to
lurking now.  Thx!

- AK

The point is people do not like change.  I love the new UI and to assist
people with making that change I have been working today on making the UI
look similar to the old one.  Such a coincidence this was brought up.  Its
going to be the same color scheme with a few shiny upgrades to make it
look more state of the art.  See link... 
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4113/5012955294_3f0d0de19b_b.jpg

Miss


  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Larger UI Question - Skinning Progress

[miss c]

Well, I changed the whole bottom panel and upper bars with images so far so 
instead of just the colored chrome it does have a sleek image now.  Dimentox is 
working on an installer for skins for me, that everyone can use for those that 
screw up replacing certain files or just don't feel comfortable with it.  The 
external installer will also replace the UI to the default if wanted.  


http://www.flickr.com/photos/toxiancity/5012858747/lightbox/

Here is a picture of the bottom panel with the image, I was going for subtle.

Miss







From: Nexeus Fatale 
To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Tue, September 21, 2010 6:45:01 PM
Subject: [opensource-dev] Larger UI Question - Skinning Progress

So, I'm kinda getting sick of hearing about why the Viewer 2 UI is bad or good, 
etc, etc, etc... it's kinda a pointless argument that should be left for forums 
and forum threads where people can flame each other about what's good or bad 
with the UI. I'm one of the view who likes many aspects of the Viewer 2 UI - 
but 
that's neither here nor there...

The question I have, relates more to a topic that has been talked about and 
displayed in the past, but I would love if there was an update or some progress 
of the nature of the project. I want to know if the  Skinning (or Project 
Dazzle 
- http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Skinning) application to the viewer (third 
party or other) is currently an active project? If so, at what phase is it? Is 
the entire UI Skinnable and adaptable? or are only the colors and feel 
changeable? Better question is are there any efforts among the many third-party 
viewer developers to have created a skinning template/process that isn't just 
adding/changing colors of the viewer?

As well, How far along the UI Roadmap is LL? 
(http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User_Interface_Roadmap)

I know this is a LOT of questions all at once, but I would love to hear more 
about the current work towards the larger UI question, instead of this snipping 
about the Viewer 2 UI not being good.


  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Larger UI Question - Skinning Progress

[miss c]

More...

The buttons are hand made in photoshop, not a color overlay.  As far as I can 
tell everything is "skinnable"  but I am still experimenting and digging around.

Miss




____
From: miss c 
To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Tue, September 21, 2010 7:45:53 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Larger UI Question - Skinning Progress


Well, I changed the whole bottom panel and upper bars with images so far so 
instead of just the colored chrome it does have a sleek image now.  Dimentox is 
working on an installer for skins for me, that everyone can use for those that 
screw up replacing certain files or just don't feel comfortable with it.  The 
external installer will also replace the UI to the default if wanted.  


http://www.flickr.com/photos/toxiancity/5012858747/lightbox/

Here is a picture of the bottom panel with the image, I was going for subtle.

Miss







From: Nexeus Fatale 
To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Tue, September 21, 2010 6:45:01 PM
Subject: [opensource-dev] Larger UI Question - Skinning Progress

So, I'm kinda getting sick of hearing about why the Viewer 2 UI is bad or good, 
etc, etc, etc... it's kinda a pointless argument that should be left for forums 
and forum threads where people can flame each other about what's good or bad 
with the UI. I'm one of the view who likes many aspects of the Viewer 2 UI - 
but 
that's neither here nor there...

The question I have, relates more to a topic that has been talked about and 
displayed in the past, but I would love if there was an update or some progress 
of the nature of the project. I want to know if the  Skinning (or Project 
Dazzle 
- http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Skinning) application to the viewer (third 
party or other) is currently an active project? If so, at what phase is it? Is 
the entire UI Skinnable and adaptable? or are only the colors and feel 
changeable? Better question is are there any efforts among the many third-party 
viewer developers to have created a skinning template/process that isn't just 
adding/changing colors of the viewer?

As well, How far along the UI Roadmap is LL? 
(http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User_Interface_Roadmap)

I know this is a LOT of questions all at once, but I would love to hear more 
about the current work towards the larger UI question, instead of this snipping 
about the Viewer 2 UI not being good.



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Larger UI Question - Skinning Progress - FURRY

[miss c]

Smiles

I just threw this one together.  The very first FURRY skin.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/toxiancity/5013092711/lightbox/






From: miss c 
To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Tue, September 21, 2010 7:54:34 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Larger UI Question - Skinning Progress


More...

The buttons are hand made in photoshop, not a color overlay.  As far as I can 
tell everything is "skinnable"  but I am still experimenting and digging around.

Miss




____
From: miss c 
To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Tue, September 21, 2010 7:45:53 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Larger UI Question - Skinning  Progress


Well, I changed the whole bottom panel and upper bars with images so far so 
instead of just the colored chrome it does have a sleek image now.  Dimentox is 
working on an installer for skins for me, that everyone can use for those that 
screw up replacing certain files or just don't feel comfortable with it.  The 
external installer will also replace the UI to the default if wanted.  


http://www.flickr.com/photos/toxiancity/5012858747/lightbox/

Here is a picture of the bottom panel with the image, I was going for subtle.

Miss







From: Nexeus Fatale 
To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Tue, September 21, 2010 6:45:01 PM
Subject: [opensource-dev] Larger UI Question - Skinning Progress

So, I'm kinda getting sick of hearing about why the Viewer 2 UI is bad or good, 
etc, etc, etc... it's kinda a pointless argument that should be left for forums 
and forum threads where people can flame each other about what's good or bad 
with the UI. I'm one of the view who likes many aspects of the Viewer 2 UI - 
but 
that's neither here nor there...

The question I have, relates more to a topic that has been talked about and 
displayed in the past, but I would love if there was an update or some progress 
of the nature of the project. I want to know if the  Skinning (or Project 
Dazzle 
- http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Skinning) application to the viewer (third 
party or other) is currently an active project? If so, at what phase is it? Is 
the entire UI Skinnable and adaptable? or are only the colors and feel 
changeable? Better question is are there any efforts among the many third-party 
viewer developers to have created a skinning template/process that isn't just 
adding/changing colors of the viewer?

As well, How far along the UI Roadmap is LL? 
(http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User_Interface_Roadmap)

I know this is a LOT of questions all at once, but I would love to hear more 
about the current work towards the larger UI question, instead of this snipping 
about the Viewer 2 UI not being good.


  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Larger UI Question - Skinning Progress

[miss c]

I love your Nostalgia one, great job.





From: Hitomi Tiponi 
To: Opensource_dev 
Sent: Wed, September 22, 2010 7:30:26 AM
Subject: [opensource-dev] Larger UI Question - Skinning Progress


Just some thoughts about Skinning - love the Furry bottombar btw Miss. :-)

Currently I skin for Viewer 2 - see 
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Viewer_Skins/Starlight,  and also for the 
Viewer 
2-based TPV Kirstens Viewer (as do Ginger M and Niran).  I have carried out a 
number of xml changes and incorporated many made by other residents in 
StarLight.

First, a reality check - you can change only so much, even if you are good at 
deciphering and twisting the xml.  Remember that all of the functionality is 
carried out in the code which is in the world of TPV changes.  StarLight 
employs 
little UI changes (or big in the case of the profile panels) and the use of  
'functions/controls' provided to the interface, which are normally buried in 
the 
debug settings.

What you can do is give the interface a slightly different look and feel, but 
the more different you want it, other than new background files or colours, the 
harder it gets - but sometimes some clever colouring or textures can make a big 
difference to user impression.  You can also make all elements aero (i.e. 
see-through) if you want - with the exception of the menu bar, which even 
KirstenLee hasn't been able to sort out.  Recently I have changed a number of 
the xml files to make a version that can be used with both light (i.e. dark on 
light) and the normal (i.e. light on dark) skins by just changing the textures 
and colors.xml file, and expect to launch a first 'light' skin soon as this is 
a 
big demand.

An example of a pink light on dark skin I am working on is at 
https://wiki.secondlife.com/w/images/0/02/StarLight_Piggy_Pink.jpg - and don't 
worry, I am making more plain versions.
My own 'Nostalgia Blue' version incorporating a touch of Viewer 1 is at 
https://wiki.secondlife.com/w/images/3/3e/Nostalgia_Blue.png - out as an option 
in the next StarLight version.

If anyone has any questions about what can or can't be done (or at least my 
understanding FWIW) or wants help I am always willing to help, whether you want 
to use StarLight tweaks, add a skin over StarLight, or just colour the 
interface.


  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] off the wall idea of the day

[miss c]

You can do that in the Skin files, I already changed "Quit" to "Real Life" :P






From: dilly dobbs 
To: Rob Nelson 
Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Thu, September 23, 2010 10:10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] off the wall idea of the day

now we are talking cool, i can make ya some tracks for the music if ya like 
lol.. 


I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by 

Douglas Adams 



On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 9:46 PM, Rob Nelson  
wrote:

You could always have a cheesy minigame where you play a breakout clone to 
get your avatar past a firewall to get to one of the servers.
>
>Which then explodes.
>
>
>On 9/23/2010 6:41 PM, Ponzu wrote: 
>Remember when at the keynote Philip said that Second   Life should be 
>"fun" 
>like the iPhone is fun?  I had an idea   tonight that is more along those 
>lines then the usual suggestions   for the Viewer.  if there is some sort 
>of 
>Linden Art Department,   maybe they can do something with this idea. 
>
>>
>>
>>"Logging in" is so *boring*.  You log in to the mainframe, or your 
>>prison cell.  When a user connects to Second Life, we need a better 
>>metaphor and a more "fun" experience.
>>
>>
>>I am thinking of something like ENTER THE METAVERSE  or UPLOAD 
>>YOURSELF 
>>NOW.  Then, instead of the boring progress bar, how about swirling 
>>lights or a visual whirl pool or something, like a music 
>>visualization 
>>plug in from iTunes.  Of course, it would have to be cool, and not 
>>cheesy, and that might be hard.  It might need cool sound effects to 
>>go 
>>with it.  It might need an entire control panel so that each user can 
>>customize to what he or she  (or any of those other possibilities) 
>>prefers. maybe audio to go with the video... Maybe each region in 
>>Second 
>>Life would have its own custom ENTRY video and audio.  Fairy dust and 
>>
>>tinkly celeste for one place, Dark Explosions and subsonic booms for 
>>another.
>>
>>
>>or, just hire me to consult for the user experience group.  I've got 
>>more ideas, and I am hirable and cheap.   8-)
>>
>>
>>Ponzu
>>
>>
>> ___ Policies and (un)subscribe 
>>information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev 
>>Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

>___
>Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
>



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

[opensource-dev] Third Party Plug-ins?

[miss c]

Would it be a plausible feature in the future to have the code accept third 
party plug-ins instead of creating whole new viewers?  Then have a Third party 
directory approved plug-in list.  As I mentioned before, my husband is making 
an 
external installer for people that may have difficulty installing skins into 
the 
new viewer, this will be a directory that all skin designers can add their 
skins 
to.  Wouldn't it be better to have a RLV plug in or an AO plug in, or a radar 
plugin that displays distance, then have to add all that to each viewer?  I do 
realize that there may be some things that Linden Lab might not want to add to 
their code but if its switched to a plug in system, people can pick and choose 
which additional features they prefer without having whats considered competing 
iewers.

TY

Miss



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] major problem with beta 2.2 - link

[miss c]

Here is a screen shot of the bug

http://www.flickr.com/photos/toxiancity/5021728112/#/photos/toxiancity/5021728112/lightbox/





From: Kent Quirk (Q Linden) 
To: Erin Mallory 
Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Fri, September 24, 2010 4:39:37 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] major problem with beta 2.2



On Sep 24, 2010, at 2:36 PM, Erin Mallory wrote:

As a User I expect and NEED usernames to be displayed in group chat and used 
properly in group and conference chat logs.
>Instead I am seeing in both chat and in logs, usernames replaced with the 
>group 
>or conference name!!!
>
>


I see this in the development tip (210412) but NOT in the beta (210127). Is 
anyone seeing it in the beta?



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] major problem with beta 2.2 - link

[miss c]

I just uninstalled and installed the latest 2.2.1 (210446)  and the bug is 
still 
there.  There is something incorrect with the commands "user_name" as I have 
combed through the working version and this one and every xml file is stil the 
same.





From: Trilo Byte 
To: miss c 
Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Fri, September 24, 2010 6:13:58 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] major problem with beta 2.2 - link

I've seen the problem as well (and voted on the issue), but did not see it in 
the 2.2.0 beta (build 210127).  This only broke in a more recent build (one of 
the ones from yesterday, I believe).


On Sep 24, 2010, at 4:11 PM, miss c wrote:


>Here is a screen shot of the bug
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/toxiancity/5021728112/#/photos/toxiancity/5021728112/lightbox/
>
>
>
>

From: Kent Quirk (Q Linden) 
>To: Erin Mallory 
>Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
>Sent: Fri, September 24, 2010 4:39:37 PM
>Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] major problem with beta 2.2
>
>
>
>On Sep 24, 2010, at 2:36 PM, Erin Mallory wrote:
>
>As a User I expect and NEED usernames to be displayed in group chat and used 
>properly in group and conference chat logs.
>>Instead I am seeing in both chat and in logs, usernames replaced with the 
>>group 
>>or conference name!!!
>>
>>

>
>
>I see this in the development tip (210412) but NOT in the beta (210127). Is 
>anyone seeing it in the beta?
>
>___
>Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

[opensource-dev] Which viewer should I use as the new beta?

[miss c]

The version I have is much higher than the public release.  It looks like an 
update was pulled 9 hours ago from the repro, but I just downloaded this new 
version a couple of hours ago.

I am on 2.2.1 (210446) 

The official beta release appears to be 2.2.0 (210127)

Was the release reverted or do I have the bug tester version or something?  The 
whole group chat displaying group names instead of avatar names is really 
frustrating, but I do not want to revert any new features by installing the 
older.

Please Advise,

TY

Miss



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

[opensource-dev] Lindens way ahead of us

[miss c]

All this talk about adding these plug ins RLV and breast physics plug ins 
were added to viewer 2 already.

They were just going to surprise us I suppose -.-

I found it here http://bitbucket.org/oz_linden/test1/changeset/bbecf41db5c8

Quote: 
merge avatar physics up to latest viewer-development 

49 #include "llbreastmotion.h" 
49 50 #include "llviewercontrol.h" 


YAY

Miss



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Lindens way ahead of us

[miss c]

Giggles, you dont have to worry.  Other viewers have the option built in as 
well 
and it just sits there unless you turn it on.  




From: Erin Mallory 
To: miss_c...@yahoo.com
Sent: Sun, September 26, 2010 9:51:32 PM
Subject: RE: [opensource-dev] Lindens way ahead of us

 RLV?   ugggh please say it isnt so 
Yay for breast physics, but if i wanted RLV I would have used a TVP with it.  
><  I don't want others able to restrict my ims, or remove my clothes... Please 
tell me I don't need to start looking for a TVP in order to avoid it. 



Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 19:37:30 -0700
From: miss_c...@yahoo.com
To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Subject: [opensource-dev] Lindens way ahead of us


All this talk about adding these plug ins RLV and breast physics plug ins 
were added to viewer 2 already.

They were just going to surprise us I suppose -.-

I found it here http://bitbucket.org/oz_linden/test1/changeset/bbecf41db5c8

Quote: 
merge avatar physics up to latest viewer-development 

49 #include "llbreastmotion.h" 
49 50 #include "llviewercontrol.h" 


YAY

Miss


___ Policies and (un)subscribe 
information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev 
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges 



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Lindens way ahead of us

[miss c]

Before it turns into an even bigger debate.  First, I assumed that viewcontrol 
meant rlv since it was directly under breastphysics, I do not know what the 
viewercontrol code is for.  Secondly this could be Oz's personal build for 
himself XD.  It does say it was merged with the latest viewer, but its not here 
in the code, no breast physics period. 






From: Erin Mallory 
To: m...@inworlddesigns.com; opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Sun, September 26, 2010 10:48:41 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Lindens way ahead of us

 
"RLV adds a lot of useful features scripters can take advantage of just
like I mentioned previously like force sitting and force teliporting
can be great for automating things like rides and tours or even huds
for combat that can send you to other parts of a sim or detach weapons
or really anything you can imagine."

That's just creepy. I cannot think of a single legitimate reason I would need 
to 
be force teleported anywhere except possibly by a linden.
Linden teleports were already built into the viewer.  Why would I need or want 
a 
combat system to disarm me or teleport me? 

If a combat hud could disarm me, then so could someone that made a hacked hud 
to 
cheat with. And whose to say it would stop with weapons?
Sorry, I see way too much potential for abuse and not enough for gains. there 
are already systems in place for tours with teleportation systems that don't 
need rlv scripts to work. 



> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 23:37:07 -0400
> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Lindens way ahead of us
> From: m...@inworlddesigns.com
> To: angel_of_crim...@hotmail.com
> CC: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
> 
> Actually there is no way to turn it on in other peoples viewers if its
> in their viewer. If someone told you that they mislead you. The on/off
> is whatever you set it too, no body else can change that short of
> hacking your computer. There is no backend or hidden code or anything
> like that. I have yet to see a TPV that has any such feature.
> 
> RLV adds a lot of useful features scripters can take advantage of just
> like I mentioned previously like force sitting and force teliporting
> can be great for automating things like rides and tours or even huds
> for combat that can send you to other parts of a sim or detach weapons
> or really anything you can imagine. Please be careful repeating things
> you've herd false information can be very damaging and hinder very
> good progress. Personally I would rather see RLV over breast physics
> but then again thats just me :P
> 
> On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 11:30 PM, Erin Mallory
>  wrote:
> > yeah, I've had it on by default in a couple viewers i tried, and in one of
> > those it claimed to be off.  and there's ways to turn it on other people's
> > viewers without them even knowing.  I do not understand why LL would include
> > RLV into a viewer.
> >
> > 
> > Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 21:00:14 -0600
> > Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Lindens way ahead of us
> > From: ilana.debe...@gmail.com
> > To: angel_of_crim...@hotmail.com
> >
> > Don't panic. If you don't turn RLV on or you don't wear an RLV relay it
> > absolutely CAN NOT affect you
> > On Sep 26, 2010 8:56 PM, "Erin Mallory" 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Yay for breast physics, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE say that RLV is NOT being
> >> added
> >> RLV is just scary and I will look for a tvp without it before I allow
> >> others to take my clothes off with an RLV trap...
> >>
> >> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 19:37:30 -0700
> >> From: miss_c...@yahoo.com
> >> To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
> >> Subject: [opensource-dev] Lindens way ahead of us
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> All this talk about adding these plug ins RLV and breast physics plug
> >> ins were added to viewer 2 already.
> >>
> >> They were just going to surprise us I suppose -.-
> >>
> >> I found it here
> >> http://bitbucket.org/oz_linden/test1/changeset/bbecf41db5c8
> >>
> >> Quote:
> >> merge avatar physics up to latest viewer-development
> >> 49
> >> #include "llbreastmotion.h"
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 49
> >> 50
> >> #include "llviewercontrol.h"
> >>
> >>
> >> YAY
> >>
> >> Miss
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> >> privileges
> >
> > ___
> > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> > privileges
> >



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Lindens way ahead of us

[miss c]

yep that's why I said this 


Before it turns into an even bigger debate.  First, I assumed that  viewcontrol 
meant rlv since it was directly under breastphysics, I do  not know what the 
viewercontrol code is for.  Secondly this could be  Oz's personal build for 
himself XD.  It does say it was merged with the  latest viewer, but its not 
here 
in the code, no breast physics period. 



...I am just combing the code and changes to work on UI customization.  I was 
trying to  locate change notes for the dev release when I ran across it.





From: Zabb65 
To: miss c 
Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Mon, September 27, 2010 1:00:48 AM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Lindens way ahead of us

llviewercontrol.h is the header that allows access to saved settings values 
within the viewer, and has nothing to do with RLV or any other form of control 
over the viewer. They are simply a set of saved control values in llsd xml 
format.


On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 22:37, miss c  wrote:

All this talk about adding these plug ins RLV and breast physics plug ins 
were added to viewer 2 already.
>
>They were just going to surprise us I suppose -.-
>
>I found it here http://bitbucket.org/oz_linden/test1/changeset/bbecf41db5c8
>
>Quote: 
>merge avatar physics up to latest viewer-development 
>
>49 #include "llbreastmotion.h" 
>49 50 #include "llviewercontrol.h" 
>
>
>YAY
>
>Miss
>
>
>___
>Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
>



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

[opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request

[miss c]

As a sim owner I have to have script counter so we can keep our scripts low in 
the sim because of the excessive us of resizing scripts.  Several times a day 
we 
have an exercise in our sim where we make an estate announcement to count your 
scripts and your neighbors to reduce the load on the servers.  Even though we 
do 
this several times a day there is always someone who forgot their scripts in 
something, you can easily find a good 5-10 people with 400+ scripts on them.  I 
am completely sold on the 2.0 code and can live without some of the other 
features in Phoenix/Emerald, but this one is an absolute deal breaker for me.  
I 
combed through the code to try and see if this was something handled in xml 
commands and its not, its in the Phoenix/Emerald code.  Can we please get this 
option, also the option of avatar announcement upon entering the sim helps 
combat scripts.  I have it announcing when an avatar enters and announcing 
region script count change so i know as soon as they enter and their script 
count if I am paying attention.  


TY

Miss



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Lindens way ahead of us

[miss c]

Well according to the merge, it looks like its a debug option to turn it on and 
is clientside.  So its optional.





From: Anders Arnholm 
To: Tigro Spottystripes 
Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Mon, September 27, 2010 6:21:03 AM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Lindens way ahead of us

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 05:29:15AM -0300, Tigro Spottystripes wrote:

> If we indeed are getting individual breast jiggle settings, that is a
> great move by LL, i had already proposed a way for Emerald users to have
> individual settings some time ago (embedding the parameters in the baked

I'm not sure what expensive renderings i should be able to have enables
should be on the other side. The breasts moment are about adding
realism, it takes rendering cost and kills tons of attachments.

The probels added with other parts moving ARE much bigger. How
attachment work win the moving part is really hard to get right. The
emerals solotions really should need a right/left nipple attackmant
point. We should also need the possibility for obejste to flex between
two, or more attackmants points. To make a realistic teeshirt needs,
three reference points, the spine/cheat and the two nipples. I would
love to see a tee that dorks and don't look like a bodypainting.


-- 
  o_   Anders Arnholm,
o/  /\and...@arnholm.se
/|_, \\http://anders.arnholm.se/
/
`

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.

___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request

[miss c]

I added it to the Jira : https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23200

If it is a duplicate, I apologize, I did search and didn't find anything.

TY 

Miss



From: miss c 
To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Mon, September 27, 2010 9:21:39 AM
Subject: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature 
request


As a sim owner I have to have script counter so we can keep our scripts low in 
the sim because of the excessive us of resizing scripts.  Several times a day 
we 
have an exercise in our sim where we make an estate announcement to count your 
scripts and your neighbors to reduce the load on the servers.  Even though we 
do 
this several times a day there is always someone who forgot their scripts in 
something, you can easily find a good 5-10 people with 400+ scripts on them.  I 
am completely sold on the 2.0 code and can live without some of the other 
features in Phoenix/Emerald, but this one is an absolute deal breaker for me.  
I 
combed through the code to try and see if this was something handled in xml 
commands and its not, its in the Phoenix/Emerald code.  Can we please  get this 
option, also the option of avatar announcement upon entering the sim helps 
combat scripts.  I have it announcing when an avatar enters and announcing 
region script count change so i know as soon as they enter and their script 
count if I am paying attention.  


TY

Miss


  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request

[miss c]

t;other is in script change region announcements under phoenix misc in  
>preferences.  You see here his script count is higher than what his  body 
>count 
>is because the body count does not include HUD attachments.   So this means he 
>has 60 on his HUD I cant see or count, I just know  there was a region change 
>when he entered the sim.

-- 
This message is automatically generated by JIRA.
-
If you think it was sent incorrectly contact one of the administrators: 
https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/Administrators.jspa
-
For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira









From: Frans 
To: miss c 
Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Mon, September 27, 2010 4:18:41 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature 
request

For some reason I can't access the Jira. I'm not sure what you are asking for. 
If you are asking for a script counter, there is the top scripts counter in the 
estate panel.

-Frans
 


On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 4:47 PM, miss c  wrote:


>
>I added it to the Jira : https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23200
>
>If it is a duplicate, I apologize, I did search and didn't find anything.
>
>TY 
>
>Miss
>
>

From: miss c 
>To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
>Sent: Mon, September 27, 2010 9:21:39 AM
>Subject: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature 
>request
>
>
>
>As a sim owner I have to have script counter so we can keep our scripts low in 
>the sim because of the excessive us of resizing scripts.  Several times a day 
>we 
>have an exercise in our sim where we make an estate announcement to count your 
>scripts and your neighbors to reduce the load on the servers.  Even though we 
>do 
>this several times a day there is always someone who forgot their scripts in 
>something, you can easily find a good 5-10 people with 400+ scripts on them.  
>I 
>am completely sold on the 2.0 code and can live without some of the other 
>features in Phoenix/Emerald, but this one is an absolute deal breaker for me.  
>I 
>combed through the code to try and see if this was something handled in xml 
>commands and its not, its in the Phoenix/Emerald code.  Can we please  get 
>this 
>option, also the option of avatar announcement upon entering the sim helps 
>combat scripts.  I have it announcing when an avatar enters and announcing 
>region script count change so i know as soon as they enter and their script 
>count if I am paying attention.  
>
>
>TY
>
>Miss
>
>
>
>___
>Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
>


  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request

[miss c]

t;other is in script change region announcements under phoenix misc in  
>preferences.  You see here his script count is higher than what his  body 
>count 
>is because the body count does not include HUD attachments.   So this means he 
>has 60 on his HUD I cant see or count, I just know  there was a region change 
>when he entered the sim.

-- 
This message is automatically generated by JIRA.
-
If you think it was sent incorrectly contact one of the administrators: 
https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/Administrators.jspa
-
For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira









From: Frans 
To: miss c  
Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Mon, September 27, 2010 4:18:41 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature 
request

For some reason I can't access the Jira. I'm not sure what you are asking for. 
If you are asking for a script counter, there is the top scripts counter in the 
estate panel.

-Frans
 


On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 4:47 PM, miss c  wrote:


>
>I added it to the Jira : https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23200
>
>If it is a duplicate, I apologize, I did search and didn't find anything.
>
>TY 
>
>Miss
>
>

From: miss c 
>To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
>Sent: Mon, September 27, 2010 9:21:39 AM
>Subject: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature 
>request
>
>
>
>As a sim owner I have to have script counter so we can keep our scripts low in 
>the sim because of the excessive us of resizing scripts.  Several times a day 
>we 
>have an exercise in our sim where we make an estate announcement to count your 
>scripts and your neighbors to reduce the load on the servers.  Even though we 
>do 
>this several times a day there is always someone who forgot their scripts in 
>something, you can easily find a good 5-10 people with 400+ scripts on them.  
>I 
>am completely sold on the 2.0 code and can live without some of the other 
>features in Phoenix/Emerald, but this one is an absolute deal breaker for me.  
>I 
>combed through the code to try and see if this was something handled in xml 
>commands and its not, its in the Phoenix/Emerald code.  Can we please  get 
>this 
>option, also the option of avatar announcement upon entering the sim helps 
>combat scripts.  I have it announcing when an avatar enters and announcing 
>region script count change so i know as soon as they enter and their script 
>count if I am paying attention.  
>
>
>TY
>
>Miss
>
>
>
>___
>Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
>



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request

[miss c]

It isn't a server feature, this works right now in all the OTHER viewers.  I 
attached like 10 files from the source code of all those viewers, the same 
exact 
files in each viewer that does this NOW.  Did you even read my Jira??  I worked 
so hard to supply every bit of information.  Unless you have allowed all these 
other viewers access to the server code, I think there has been a mistake, 
could 
you please reread my Jira.

TY

Miss





From: Brandon Husbands 
To: Sarah (Esbee) Hutchinson 
Cc: miss c ; opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Tue, September 28, 2010 12:12:33 AM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature 
request

Actually no its a viewer feature...

http://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-sg/file/cc7894faa410/indra/newview/scriptcounter.h

and
http://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-sg/file/cc7894faa410/indra/newview/scriptcounter.cpp


Just plugin and create a menu etc...

If you want a non phoenix one re written for viewer 2.x i can easily do that 
and 
comply with lgpl as it wont be a port but a re implementation.

Dim.



On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Sarah (Esbee) Hutchinson 
 
wrote:

Hi Miss C, 
>
>
>The script count feature you requested is something that the Snowstorm Team 
>wouldn't work on as its not really a Viewer feature - requiring mostly work on 
>the server-side. 
>
>
>I've moved the issue to our Land team so they can evaluate and prioritize the 
>request. Unfortunately, the Land Team's tasks are not publicly visible in the 
>new Jira set up. The ticket was moved intact with all the supporting data and 
>will be given proper consideration. 
>
>
>Best, 
>Esbee
>
>
>
>
>
>This is really a request for a new script function to report # of scripts on 
>an 
>avatar; it's not a viewer feature (or even possible to do correctly/reliably 
>with current grid protocols). Kicking to the Land team for 
>evaluation/prioritization.
>
>
>
>On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 6:19 PM, miss c  wrote:
>
>Apparently it was moved, leaped the the land group, but I cant access where it 
>went either.  Below are the details I added, worked real hard on getting all 
>information needed, all the referencing files uploaded, had 50 something 
>votes, 
>now gone, I hope it is taken seriously.
>>
>>
>>Miss
>>
>>   [ 
>>https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23200?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel
>> ]
>>
>>Esbee Linden updated VWR-23200:
>>---
>>
>>Summary: Script count feature request   (was: Script Count - 2.0 Absolute 
>>Dealbreaker - script count feature request)
>>
>>This  is really a request for a new script function to report # of scripts on 
>> 
>>an avatar; it's not a viewer feature (or even possible to do  
>>correctly/reliably 
>>with current grid protocols). Kicking to the Land  team for 
>>evaluation/prioritization.
>>
>>> Script count feature request 
>>> -
>>>
>>> Key: VWR-23200
>>> URL: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23200
>>> Project: 1. Second Life Viewer - VWR
>>>  Issue Type: New Feature
>>>  Components: Avatar/Character, Building (in-world), Performance, 
>>>Scripting, Source Code, User Interface
>>> Environment: Second Life 2.2.1 (210525) Sep 25 2010 08:22:37 
>>> (Second 
>>>Life Development)
>>> Release Notes
>>>  CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPUQ8300  @ 2.50GHz (2493.73 MHz)
>>> Memory: 6078 MB
>>> OS Version: Microsoft Windows Vista 64-bit Service Pack 1 (Build 6001)
>>> Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
>>> Graphics Card: ATI Radeon HD 4600 Series 
>>> Windows Graphics Driver Version: 8.17.0010.1041
>>> OpenGL Version: 3.3.10151 Compatibility Profile Context
>>> libcurl Version: libcurl/7.20.1 OpenSSL/0.9.8j zlib/1.2.3
>>> J2C Decoder Version: KDU
>>> Audio Driver Version: FMOD version 3.74
>>> Qt Webkit Version: 4.6 (version number hard-coded)
>>> Voice Server Version: Not Connected
>>> Built with MSVC version 1400
>>>Reporter: Miss Wright
>>>Priority: Severe
>>>  Attachments: CMakeLists.txt, floateravatarlist.cpp,  
>>> llstartup.cpp, 
>>>llviewermenu.cpp, menu_pie_attachment.xml,  menu_pie_avatar.xml, 
>>>menu_pie_object.xml, menu_pie_self.xml,  message.xml, scriptcounter.cpp, 
>>>scriptcounter.h, scriptcountsample.jpg
>>>
>>>
>&

Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request

[miss c]

luated as a product from end to end. These 
features almost always benefit from both viewer and server development. It is 
also beneficial to keep the backlogs of related functionality together so we 
can 
better prioritize the features and bugs that effect the Land product against 
each other.

So, *yes* it is quite possible to implement this check in the viewer alone, and 
kudos to the team(s) that have done it. However, we feel obligated to do a more 
thorough solution by fixing the server and viewer together, and to prioritize 
this feature request against the many other feature requests for the Land 
product.

 - Kelly

P.S. I am also not sure on the legal issues involved around the software 
licenses here. As far as I'm aware we still require a contributors agreement 
and 
it is not clear that the code added to the jira was actually written by the 
person who attached it to jira, whether that person has a contributors 
agreement 
or what license was attached to that code. At the very least I am guessing it 
is 
extremely bad form to submit code you don't own and didn't create into the jira.


On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Brandon Husbands  wrote:

Just to iterate that it does work.
>
>[22:22]  Counting scripts. Please wait.
>[22:22]  Counted scripts on object SL Exchange Magic Box white: 5
>
>Works for any object.
>The code even allows you if you have permissions to remove all scripts which 
>is 
>a desperately needed function with all the poorly scripted re-sizer scripts in 
>object.
>
>
>
>On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 12:18 AM, miss c  wrote:
>
>It isn't a server feature, this works right now in all the OTHER viewers.  I 
>attached like 10 files from the source code of all those viewers, the same 
>exact 
>files in each viewer that does this NOW.  Did you even read my Jira??  I 
>worked 
>so hard to supply every bit of information.  Unless you have allowed all these 
>other viewers access to the server code, I think there has been a mistake, 
>could 
>you please reread my Jira.
>>
>>TY
>>
>>Miss
>>
>>
>>
>>

From: Brandon Husbands 
>>To: Sarah (Esbee) Hutchinson 
>>Cc: miss c ; opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
>>Sent: Tue, September 28, 2010 12:12:33 AM
>>
>>Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature 
>>request
>>
>>
>>Actually no its a viewer feature...
>>
>>http://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-sg/file/cc7894faa410/indra/newview/scriptcounter.h
>>
>>and
>>http://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-sg/file/cc7894faa410/indra/newview/scriptcounter.cpp
>>
>>
>>Just plugin and create a menu etc...
>>
>>If you want a non phoenix one re written for viewer 2.x i can easily do that 
>>and 
>>comply with lgpl as it wont be a port but a re implementation.
>>
>>Dim.
>>
>>
>>
>>On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Sarah (Esbee) Hutchinson 
>> 
>>wrote:
>>
>>Hi Miss C, 
>>>
>>>
>>>The script count feature you requested is something that the Snowstorm Team 
>>>wouldn't work on as its not really a Viewer feature - requiring mostly work 
>>>on 
>>>the server-side. 
>>>
>>>
>>>I've moved the issue to our Land team so they can evaluate and prioritize 
>>>the 
>>>request. Unfortunately, the Land Team's tasks are not publicly visible in 
>>>the 
>>>new Jira set up. The ticket was moved intact with all the supporting data 
>>>and 
>>>will be given proper consideration. 
>>>
>>>
>>>Best, 
>>>Esbee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>This is really a request for a new script function to report # of scripts on 
>>>an 
>>>avatar; it's not a viewer feature (or even possible to do correctly/reliably 
>>>with current grid protocols). Kicking to the Land team for 
>>>evaluation/prioritization.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 6:19 PM, miss c  wrote:
>>>
>>>Apparently it was moved, leaped the the land group, but I cant access where 
>>>it 
>>>went either.  Below are the details I added, worked real hard on getting all 
>>>information needed, all the referencing files uploaded, had 50 something 
>>>votes, 
>>>now gone, I hope it is taken seriously.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Miss
>>>>
>>>>   [ 
>>>>https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23200?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel
>>>> ]
>>

Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request

[miss c]

The point is this, that this option is already readily available.  I use this 
option everyday and see no problem with it.  Thousands of people all over 
Second 
Life use this option.  It is harder on the servers to have a million scripts 
than to have this tool to reduce them, I know because I can see the difference. 
 
I know ideally it would be both a server and viewer function, but I can't wait 
another 6 months hoping the feature shows up.  I realize the script Limits were 
suppose to help fix this but the problem is avatars, and oddly avatars were 
left 
out of the script limit tools, rendering them useless.  I have paid out well 
over 20 grand in tier over the past several of years, and that's not an 
exaggeration, I have yearned for more sim tools as many others have for years.  
Creating something from scratch I can understand is a long hard process, but 
this is something that is there and works.  I have to have this option cause I 
have no other real tools, therefore I can't use your viewer.  That's my point, 
I 
can't enjoy these new wonderful features only available in your viewer because 
my responsibilities and priorities as an Estate Owner come first.  So the 
argument that it would be better to do it server side still doesn't change the 
fact that not having this option is an absolute deal breaker for me, I am not 
trying to be stubborn, this is a REAL need.

TY

Miss





From: Lance Corrimal 
To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Tue, September 28, 2010 5:44:08 AM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature 
request

Am Dienstag, 28. September 2010, 11:27:22 schrieb Marine Kelley:
> On 28 September 2010 11:20, Ann Otoole  wrote:
> > this isn't the place for that and LL needs to weigh in on things like
> > this.
> > 
> > It isn't the only one and one person LL openly promotes also sells over
> > scripted shoes.
> > If we are going after one we have to go after the ones LL promotes as
> > well.
> > 
> > Better for LL to step up first.
> 
> I think I know who you are talking about, Ann. I remember having sent a
> very detailed notecard with script time, snapshots and explanations,
> proving that the lag came from their shoes and that they really should do
> something to lighten the load on the sims. One resizer and texturer script
> per prim on a 250-prim shoe (and you got two feet), some of the prims
> never even showing because you have to actually buy an option to see them,
> is unacceptable.
> 
> No response from them whatsoever, and no change in their products. My
> message totally fell in deaf ears. So I gave up on them and went to the
> competition, who does listen to their customers. And I made a point in
> telling everyone I know to do the same. End of story.


could that by any chance be one of the reasons why that shop strictly refuses 
to make demo versions available... so that people could check the script load 
on those shoes before they buy?


bye,
LC

___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request

[miss c]

Support has been fantastic for me, its the live chat that is a problem.  I have 
changed my methods of using live chat to filing an actual ticket and I get a 
response almost immediately.

Still need a script counter *hides*  

What I am probably going to do is get my husband to build me a personal version 
of 2.2 with mesh and the script counter.  That doesn't help everyone else 
though.





From: Kadah 
To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Wed, September 29, 2010 1:11:46 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature 
request

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Sadly what sim and land owners really need most right now is support.
Anyone that's contacted live support, concierge, or filed a ticket in
the last few months knows what I'm taking about.

Getting support back on track should be priority.

v.v


On 9/28/2010 1:57 AM, Yoz Grahame wrote:
> In which case, we should consider that before we rush to an
> implementation which may end up worsening the problem that land owners
> need fixed.
> 
> It's in everyone's interest to provide something like this. Reducing lag
> is a key part of the "Fast, Easy, Fun" initiative. Giving land owners
> better tools to deal with sim load is a great way to divide-and-conquer
> on the many causes of lag, not to mention making our highest-paying
> customers happier. But if it's worth doing then it's worth doing right,
> and the Land team needs time to design and prioritise it properly.
> 
> -- Yoz
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJMo4FiAAoJEIdLfPRu7qE2V0YH+wQsQ3kSsB8qFXLDTZcNuBjB
3UZGr0LREG9PbwMiGSDTcxZ3XTORz1Kjv7OowphRfgwv+Djh0I1mj2FZyIVL6Itt
c+yg/D1RQjmWygsbDS6j2e7LwIInCNforoqKtWlTzOg9azA04EMwaMO5zDLl2oae
Uu0wWuBkwIovSsKfphrgGEAIUFhaR/VH+5QA1f5l6pMCwGryUB5CGA9Oz1cNmSoV
AXHd+9DkUkJt/E9I11XO9us6xFTZNWexNtEKF+OK0wxQ0XfUphrmCPY50zN/isNI
aBh2g11nf4ZqWHvKKErrsje2SqLDdSxPwyDD6zDkMoGTIvmlXsvsHR5FBBP0uhE=
=gUJb
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request

[miss c]

This again isn't that useful because you cant accurately guess how many scripts 
the person is wearing because of the memory difference.  Secondly the laggiest 
script with every lsl call in the world would still only register at 16k.  I 
think that what would make my body melt into a pool of happiness is a script 
usage per avatar, the calls coming from an avatar that put strain on the server 
because some LSL functions are more evil than others.  I don't know how complex 
something like this would be to do.  At least with the script counter I know 
accurately that Mr. Cybernetic has 1534 scripts in his suit and each script 
takes up .02 ms of memory if there isnt strain on the sim.  Did you know there 
are some resizing scripts that have chat listeners, OMG, someone go shoot those 
designers.  :p

But I want to thank you so much with everything in my soul that your attempting 
to find a solution to this problem, just for your attempt I completely adore 
you, please don't stop!

:p

Miss





From: Bryon Ruxton 
To: Kelly Linden ; miss c 
Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Wed, September 29, 2010 4:33:30 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature 
request

Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request 
Sounds good to begin with! The caveats you mentioned are not really problems to 
be concerned too much about.
I would just suggest llGetObjectMemory(key id) for the function name.
Perhaps a list params with SCRIPT_COUNT and SCRIPT_MEMORY then SCRIPT_USAGE 
with 
the lower results for mono scripts later on...

On 9/29/10 2:00 PM, "Kelly Linden"  wrote:


So I was playing with the following LSL function in a sandbox yesterday and I 
like it, but I'm gonna guess not everyone will.
>integer llGetScriptMemoryTotal(key id) returns the total script memory used by 
>all scripts in the object or for agents the total script memory used by all 
>attachments combined. Only works for objects and avatars in the same region.
>
>Potential problems with it:
>* Dyslexic naming weird it is.
>* No permissions checks, anyone can view the sum for anyone / any object. 
>Since 
>this is the case for the viewer feature it seems like adding any restrictions 
>will just leave people still wanting the viewer hack version.
>* No detail information. I think this is best when used on anyone not yourself 
>for privacy reasons. And we do have the UI for finding per-attachment details 
>on 
>yourself. So maybe not an issue.
>* Reports 'reserved' script memory. A mono-script will report 64k while an LSL 
>script will report 16k, when really the mono script may be using less (mono 
>scripts average 8-10k last I checked, in actual usage). Being able to report 
>lower results for mono scripts is gated on other development work not 
>currently 
>in progress.
>* It doesn't seem like a very complete API.
>
>On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 12:47 PM, miss c  wrote:
>
>Still need a script counter *hides*  
>>
>>What I am probably going to do is get my husband to build me a personal 
>>version 
>>of 2.2 with mesh and the script counter.  That doesn't help everyone else 
>>though.
>>
>>

___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request

[miss c]

This is a tough one because it does leave a lot of guess work, but still could 
be added to my list of tools I use to guess with.  I will totally take it if 
it's being offered, I just pray this inst the foundation the future tools will 
be built off of.  And about the whole banning, my regions private, just open to 
the public, if I want to ban anyone coming in my sim wearing pink, I can.  I 
hope thats not why tools are being kept from us, is because the Linden's are 
afraid we will make unintelligent bans.  I pay a lot of money out I should be 
able to do what I want with it within the ToS, I should be given the tools to 
at 
least keep random newbs from secretly crashing my sim.  






From: Zi Ree 
To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Wed, September 29, 2010 5:28:07 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature 
request

> Do you want an incomplete yet helpful solution doable now, to be
> improved/completed later on,
> or do you prefer to wait another 6-12+ month with nothing at all?

Since improvised and incomplete solutions tend to become the final one after a 
while, and since I have no issues with script memory whatsoever, I rather wait 
for a fully functional, complete implementation than seeing a temporary and 
useless "solution" in place.

Zi
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request

[miss c]

Let me reword that last part.  I should be able to locate a person using 
excessive amounts of resources on my sim.  I also should be able to stop random 
people on alts setting out to grief secretly with the overuse of scripts.





From: miss c 
To: Zi Ree ; opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Wed, September 29, 2010 5:45:25 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature 
request


This is a tough one because it does leave a lot of guess work, but still could 
be added to my list of tools I use to guess with.  I will totally take it if 
it's being offered, I just pray this inst the foundation the future tools will 
be built off of.  And about the whole banning, my regions private, just open to 
the public, if I want to ban anyone coming in my sim wearing pink, I can.  I 
hope thats not why tools are being kept from us, is because the Linden's are 
afraid we will make unintelligent bans.  I pay a lot of money out I should be 
able to do what I want with it within the ToS, I should be given the tools to 
at 
least keep random newbs from secretly crashing my sim.  






From: Zi Ree 
To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Wed, September 29, 2010 5:28:07 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature 
request

> Do you want an incomplete yet helpful solution doable now, to be
> improved/completed later on,
> or do you prefer to wait another 6-12+ month with nothing at all?

Since improvised and incomplete solutions tend to become the final one after a 
while, and since I have no issues with script memory whatsoever, I rather wait 
for a fully functional, complete implementation than seeing a temporary and 
useless "solution" in place.

Zi
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges


  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request

[miss c]

We all know about the amount of lag on avatars, some are from resizing scripts 
some are from excessive calls, sensors, some are from chat listeners that have 
to filter out ever single bit of chat in a region.  Most avatars do not even 
realize they have purchased something causing issues.  


I think "scanning" an avatar before it goes to a teleport destination to see if 
that amount of script usage is allowed on that region isn't fixing a problem, 
and leaves someone that doesnt know any better at a loss.  I also believe that 
limiting the amount of scripts in one object is a little more doable, but some 
functions are at idle in scripts.  


I think the best method that goes with Linden Labs philosophy of be and do what 
you want to do, would just be to give better monitoring tools to Estate owners, 
they pay those server bills they should have some better tools.  Whether its a 
script count, usage, calls to the server, or just be able to open up a server 
window to see what is going WITH a must have uuid and location its coming from. 
 
I would be happy with a debug server window that does this.  This isn't an 
unreasonable request to give me more tools, I am not hard to please, what is 
unreasonable is that I pay out the wazoo and anyone can come crash my region if 
they wanted to.  They can lag it up galore just for giggles and I cant do 
anything about it, they can do this daily , everyday several times a day, and I 
have to be the victim of it.  


As I said before, most don't even know they are doing this because it's in an 
item they purchased, so this is where the ***SCRIPT COUNTER*** comes in handy.  
We make the announcement for everyone to script count yourself and your 
neighbors , everyone does using the forks off of Emerald, and the region gets 
better.  It isn't the solution for everything, but it helps when excessive 
scripts is the cause.  I am not going to give you a full on user story because 
I 
feel like that gives you reason to place this in a faraway request.  This works 
now in other viewers, it can work in yours too :-)  






____
From: Joshua Bell 
To: miss c 
Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Wed, September 29, 2010 6:45:50 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature 
request

Taking a stab at a user story:

As a land owner, I want to ensure that sim performance is not negatively 
impacted by particular avatars with lots of scripts, so that all users of the 
sim have a good experience.

That abstracts away the mechanism... which suggests to me that approaches like 
dynamic per-avatar caps on script cycles might be a better approach to pursue 
than specific functions that enable monitoring. But I'm probably 
over-abstracting the desire and it would encode the policy in the sim, rather 
than letting land owners self-manage. Can we craft a better user story to 
capture the true need?


On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 4:09 PM, miss c  wrote:

Let me reword that last part.  I should be able to locate a person using 
excessive amounts of resources on my sim.  I also should be able to stop random 
people on alts setting out to grief secretly with the overuse of scripts.
>
>
>
>

From: miss c 
>To: Zi Ree ; opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
>Sent: Wed, September 29, 2010 5:45:25 PM
>
>Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature 
>request
>
>
>
>This is a tough one because it does leave a lot of guess work, but still could 
>be added to my list of tools I use to guess with.  I will totally take it if 
>it's being offered, I just pray this inst the foundation the future tools will 
>be built off of.  And about the whole banning, my regions private, just open 
>to 
>the public, if I want to ban anyone coming in my sim wearing pink, I can.  I 
>hope thats not why tools are being kept from us, is because the Linden's are 
>afraid we will make unintelligent bans.  I pay a lot of money out I should be 
>able to do what I want with it within the ToS, I should be given the tools to 
>at 
>least keep random newbs from secretly crashing my sim.  
>
>
>
>
>

From: Zi Ree 
>To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
>Sent: Wed, September 29, 2010 5:28:07 PM
>Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature 
>request
>
>> Do you want an incomplete yet helpful solution doable now, to be
>> improved/completed later on,
>> or do you prefer to wait another 6-12+ month with nothing at all?
>
>Since improvised and incomplete solutions tend to become the final one after a 
>while, and since I have no issues with script memory whatsoever, I rather wait 
>for a fully functional, complete implementation than seeing a temporary and 
>u

Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request

[miss c]

That sounds awesome, I just don't want to ask for too much and not get anything 
at all cause its put on the shelf.  I need a solution or replacement to my 
Estate tools that I lose by moving to the official viewer, or I can't possibly 
move.  As I said , my priorities and responsibilities as an estate owner come 
first.





From: Bryon Ruxton 
To: Kelly Linden ; miss c 
Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Wed, September 29, 2010 7:37:44 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature 
request

Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request 
That was in part my justification behind the need of script counts in the 
function, to assess numbers of scripts vs memory count in a slightly more 
meaningful manner, for lack of true memory usage.

e.g. 4 scripts with 64k memory usage can be evaluated as 64k accurately,
while a 64k memory without a number of scripts attached, give you indeed 
nothing 
to assess.

i.e. The number of LSL vs. Mono scripts can be easily figured out with quite 
simple math
if we have the script count under the initial conditions of 16k and 64k caps.

As you pointed out, true memory usage isn’t a given... Memory fluctuates over 
time or conditions and even snapshots of it would not reflect true usage... As 
you suggest, if you allowed mono scripts to set their own memory cap, I guess 
you could report the memory cap based on that, perhaps rounded to 
chunks/multiples of 4k...

So I’ll stick to list llGetObjectMemory( key id, list params ) with 
SCRIPT_COUNT 
and SCRIPT_MEMORY flags as the most viable initial solution I’d be happy with. 
Then once you add mono memory caps, either add a flag or change what is 
reported 
as SCRIPT_MEMORY...
OR possibly add those flags in LlGetObjectDetails?? But I don’t know the 
technicals there..

Anyway that was my suggestion of the day,
Back to RL work!


On 9/29/10 4:06 PM, "Kelly Linden"  wrote:


* In my mind the biggest issue is that mono scripts will appear 4x worse than 
LSL scripts.
>


  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] So long!

[miss c]

Hugs, take care, see you in game!





From: Tofu Linden 
To: opensource-dev List 
Sent: Thu, September 30, 2010 10:42:33 AM
Subject: [opensource-dev] So long!

It's been great working with you folks, some of you for years now!

SL is an amazing place, made amazing by its residents.  Thank you
all.  Please keep on making peoples first and second lives better!

You can always contact me as Tofu Buzzard on SL.

Be well!
--Adam M.
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request

[miss c]

THANK YOU, what he said.  Why lie and make up some weird inaccurate number to 
leave people guessing, just give us a script counter, LOL.





From: Erik Anderson 
To: Bryon Ruxton 
Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 9:05:41 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature 
request

I hate to break in like this, but we're discussing how inaccurate it is for 
Mono 
scripts to contribute a different multiple than LSL scripts, but in the end 
aren't we just counting scripts?  Would it be more accurate to report a script 
count and let the user do whatever multiple they want, and then later when 
there's a better number out there for memory usage release that as a new 
number? 
 If any assumptions are made by the scriptor at that point they know where the 
accuracy lies... 



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

[opensource-dev] TCMalloc Memory Profiling?

[miss c]

I saw the memoryprofiling debug option to enable the TCMalloc's memory 
profiling.  Reading up on it here 
http://goog-perftools.sourceforge.net/doc/tcmalloc.html

Will this enhance the performance of my viewer or is this legacy?  If it will 
enhance it, why is this option not on by default?  Can someone enlighten me 
please?

Thank you

Miss



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

[opensource-dev] another script fighting question

[miss c]

No one in concierge seems to know this, so I thought I would ask the viewer 
specialists here.  


When you first call for top scripts in region tools what is the order it is 
returning initially.  I know it's not random because some avatars come up in 
the 
same spots everytime.  I know its not time, because some avies and objects are 
higher than others.  Could it possibly be calls on the server??  or is it 
something as simple as UUID order.  I NEED A CLASS 7!


Combating the lag every hour on the hour.

TY

Miss



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request !!!!!!!

[miss c]

This is why we need it

 [12:52]  Counted scripts from 19 attachments on Sxt Cxxx: 1102


  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

[opensource-dev] Inventory Organization Feature Request

[miss c]

As a user, I would like to be able to have better  tools to keep my inventory 
neater and put less load on the server when it loads.  I would love a search 
for 
duplicate uuid option so I can easily remove duplicates.  I would also like an 
option to have certain things  received go in designated folders, for instance 
if i open a purchased item and there is a landmark in the box , the landmark 
automatically can go into the landmark folder.  Maybe possibly a warning popup 
saying I already have an item with this uuid in my inventory and asking if they 
can discard the new one.  An option when i do a search to be able to select all 
items returned without selecting the folder its in, for instance if i search 
for 
key phrase floating text or unpackboxscript I can highlight all the returns 
just 
deleting that one item out of every folder.  I would also like a function to 
remove old landmarks where the parcel no longer exists, same with avatar 
calling 
cards. Every single landmark in my inventory loads up when I start my viewer to 
check to see if I have visited that place before, it remembers places I havent  
vistted since 2006, just so it can change the pushpin color, is this really 
needed?

Thank you 

Miss



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

[opensource-dev] Translate hotkey?

[miss c]

Is there a translate hotkey, command or setting in the viewer that will 
translate note cards into your viewer language?

Thanks,

Miss



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

[opensource-dev] LLTextbox ETA?

[miss c]

Is there an ETA on when LLTextbox will work in the official viewer?  It only 
works in the Phoenix viewer.

Thank you

Miss



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

[opensource-dev] Again About Scripting Issues specifically KELLY LINDEN

[miss c]

Running more and more tests about the lag in regions it seems more and more to 
point towards this issue more than anything else.

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895 with over 900 votes
"Rezzing Mono scripted object cripples sim FPS"

Now Kelly mentioned on this post it had something to do with the mono 
secuirty.dll.

When I did a search for Security.dll and mono in google it pulled up mailing 
lists and posts where this is actually a mono bug coming from their software.  
The portion I gather is it was fixed or improved in newer versions.  I looked 
all over the wiki but I could not find what version of mono we are using.  Does 
anyone know?

I know this is more of a server function, but we have discussed at length for 
adding more tools to the viewer to monitor lag, but this would really make a 
huge difference if we just needed to update the mono version on the servers.

If there is a server mailing list, please point me in that direction.

Thanks

Miss
Fighting the lag every hour on the hour


  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Again About Scripting Issues specifically KELLY LINDEN

[miss c]

Well here is the official mono bug list, over 1900 issues, I am sure one of 
those issues points to our problem if its not just a new version needed.

Anyway, hope this helps

Official Mono Novell Bugs







From: Stickman 
To: miss c 
Sent: Sun, October 17, 2010 2:54:31 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Again About Scripting Issues specifically KELLY 
LINDEN


They attempted a fix a few server versions ago. But it did horrible things to 
some scripts, causing them to crash in totally new and horrible ways.
The fix was pulled out and set to be put back in when everything else was 
updated so it could be included without causing horrors.
I'm sure someone can give you better specifics. I'm not in an area to look up 
the information. I do know that the server with the actual fix is coming 
"soon." 
Which is good, because it felt impossibly far off when it got taken back out.
Stickman
On Oct 17, 2010 12:41 PM, "miss c"  wrote:
>
>
>Running more and more tests about the lag in regions it seems more and more to 
>point towards this issue more than anything else.
>
>https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895 with over 900 votes
>"Rezzing Mono scripted object cripples sim FPS"
>
>Now Kelly mentioned on this post it had something to do with the mono 
>secuirty.dll.
>
>When I did a search for Security.dll and mono in google it pulled up mailing 
>lists and posts where this is actually a mono bug coming from their software.  
>The portion I gather is it was fixed or improved in newer versions.  I looked 
>all over the wiki but I could not find what version  of mono we are using.  
>Does 
>anyone know?
>
>I know this is more of a server function, but we have discussed at length for 
>adding more tools to the viewer to monitor lag, but this would really make a 
>huge difference if we just needed to update the mono version on the servers.
>
>If there is a server mailing list, please point me in that direction.
>
>Thanks
>
>Miss
>Fighting the lag every hour on the hour
>
> 
>
>___
>Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
>


  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Again About Scripting Issues specifically KELLY LINDEN

[miss c]

That bug is listed here with 2.6.7

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=581679

Quote "I have tested this in Mono 2.6.7 and it is still occurring.  it occurs 
when a second input field in added to a form (via the forms "+" button and 
happens at save."

In version 2.8 it looks like they redid how mono works so it doesn't look like 
this is a bug that's going to be fixed.

http://www.mono-project.com/Release_Notes_Mono_2.6.7
http://www.mono-project.com/Release_Notes_Mono_2.8

If this isn't fixable you may have to go to 2.8, but with as much as it looks 
like they changes, wow, a whole lot of work.  But thank you for answering, 
can't 
wait to see it deployed.  


Miss







From: Kelly Linden 
To: Rob Nelson 
Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Sun, October 17, 2010 3:17:40 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Again About Scripting Issues specifically KELLY 
LINDEN

Currently we use Mono 1.2.6.

Moving to Mono 2.6.7 is in testing right now. It requires a two stage process 
to 
deploy so there will be a 'mono2 aware' version that has to be deployed before 
we get all the new version stuff. We are currently working on tracking down 
hopefully one of the last issues, a "System.InvalidCastException" that we 
sometimes get when loading scripts. Unfortunately it is a bit difficult to 
repro, and is a bit more subtle than the name would make it seem relating to 
loading scripts.

I regularly give updates on this project and any other scripting work I am 
aware 
of at my office hours: 
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Kelly_Linden#Office_Hours . The only other 
relevant list is probably secondlifescript...@lists.secondlife.com.

 - Kelly


On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 1:01 PM, Rob Nelson  
wrote:

There is no "we".  The servers are proprietary; LL does this on their own 
dime and time.  From what I gather, there's a little bit of work going 
towards that direction, but the mesh changes have their attention for now, 
like car keys dangled in front of a toddler.
>
>Rob
>
>
>On 10/17/2010 12:40 PM, miss c wrote: 
>Running more and more tests about the lag in regions it   seems more 
>and 
>more to point towards this issue more than   anything else.
>>
>>https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895 with over 900 votes
>>"Rezzing   Mono scripted object cripples sim FPS"
>>
>>Now Kelly mentioned on this post it had something to do with the 
>>mono secuirty.dll.
>>
>>When I did a search for Security.dll and mono in google it pulled 
>>up 
>>mailing lists and posts where this is actually a mono bug coming 
>>from their software.  The portion I gather is it was fixed or 
>>improved in newer versions.  I looked all over the wiki but I 
>>could 
>>not find what version of mono we are using.  Does anyone know?
>>
>>I know this is more of a server function, but we have discussed 
>>at 
>>length for adding more tools to the viewer to monitor lag, but 
>>this 
>>would really make a huge difference if we just needed to update 
>>the 
>>mono version on the servers.
>>
>>If there is a server mailing list, please point me in that 
>>direction.
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Miss
>>Fighting the lag every hour on the hour
>>
>> 
>>
>> ___ Policies and (un)subscribe 
>>information available here: 
>>
>>http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies 
>>before 
>>posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

>___
>Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
>



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] fix System.InvalidCastException (was again about scripting issues)

[miss c]

https://bugzilla.novell.com/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=System.InvalidCastException

.The bug is listed 5 times...


 on one of these someone fixed the issue
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=619929






From: miss c 
To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Sun, October 17, 2010 4:00:46 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Again About Scripting Issues specifically KELLY 
LINDEN


That bug is listed here with 2.6.7

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=581679

Quote "I have tested this in Mono 2.6.7 and it is still occurring.  it occurs 
when a second input field in added to a form (via the forms "+" button and 
happens at save."

In version 2.8 it looks like they redid how mono works so it doesn't look like 
this is a bug that's going to be fixed.

http://www.mono-project.com/Release_Notes_Mono_2.6.7
http://www.mono-project.com/Release_Notes_Mono_2.8

If this isn't fixable you may have to go to 2.8, but with as much as it looks 
like they changes, wow, a whole lot of work.  But thank you for answering, 
can't 
wait to see it deployed.  


Miss







From: Kelly Linden  
To: Rob Nelson 
Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Sun, October 17, 2010 3:17:40 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Again About Scripting Issues specifically KELLY 
LINDEN

Currently we use Mono 1.2.6.

Moving to Mono 2.6.7 is in testing right now. It requires a two stage process 
to 
deploy so there will be a 'mono2 aware' version that has to be deployed before 
we get all the new version stuff. We are currently working on tracking down 
hopefully one of the last issues, a "System.InvalidCastException" that we 
sometimes get when loading scripts. Unfortunately it is a bit difficult to 
repro, and is a bit more subtle than the name would make it seem relating to 
loading scripts.

I regularly give updates on this project and any other scripting work I am 
aware 
of at my office hours: 
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Kelly_Linden#Office_Hours . The only other 
relevant list is probably secondlifescript...@lists.secondlife.com.

 - Kelly


On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 1:01 PM, Rob Nelson  
wrote:

There is no "we".  The servers are proprietary; LL does this on their own 
dime and time.  From what I gather, there's a little bit of work going 
towards that direction, but the mesh changes have their attention for now, 
like car keys dangled in front of a toddler.
>
>Rob
>
>
>On 10/17/2010 12:40 PM, miss c wrote: 
>Running more and more tests about the lag in regions it   seems more 
>and 
>more to point towards this issue more than   anything else.
>>
>>https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895 with over 900 votes
>>"Rezzing   Mono scripted object cripples sim FPS"
>>
>>Now Kelly mentioned on this post it had something to do with the 
>>mono secuirty.dll.
>>
>>When I did a search for Security.dll and mono in google it pulled 
>>up 
>>mailing lists and posts where this is actually a mono bug coming 
>>from their software.  The portion I gather is it was fixed or 
>>improved in newer versions.  I looked all over the wiki but I 
>>could 
>>not find what version of mono we are using.  Does anyone know?
>>
>>I know this is more of a server function, but we have discussed 
>>at 
>>length for adding more tools to the viewer to monitor lag, but 
>>this 
>>would really make a huge difference if we just needed to update 
>>the 
>>mono version on the servers.
>>
>>If there is a server mailing list, please point me in that 
>>direction.
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Miss
>>Fighting the lag every hour on the hour
>>
>> 
>>
>> ___ Policies and (un)subscribe 
>>information available here: 
>>
>>http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies 
>>before 
>>posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

>___
>Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
>


  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

[opensource-dev] user story - events and appointments

[miss c]

As a user I would like to be able to add a future event or office hours to an 
in 
game calender complete with email and in game reminder with a simple click.  
Toggling between windows to add an event to another calender or simply 
attempting to remember is not sufficient.  I feel that events would get more 
attendance with such a feature and should be considered critical to assist 
residents in their efforts to create such events.  


This is already on the Jira in many places.

Thank you

Miss



  ___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges