Re: [openstack-dev] Summit Core Party after Austin

[Matt Riedemann]

On 4/22/2016 4:58 PM, Tom Fifield wrote:

Hi all,

On 22/04/16 16:40, Clint Byrum wrote:

But in the mean time, maybe we can just send this message
to party planners: Provide us with interesting spaces to converse and
bond in, and we will be happier.


Spoke with the party planners and got the inside gossip :)

The good news: for the Austin summit party, those who are looking for a
quieter space will be served as well as those who enjoy live music.

ProTip: http://stackcityaustin.openstack.org/map.php

For the quieter space, G'Raj Mahal, Parlor Room and L'Estelle are the
ones you want. Within these venues, the noise will come from your
voices, rather than an amplified band.



Regards,



Tom

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Will there be a lawn somewhere that I can yell at kids to get off of? 
Also, I hope there is some soup available (not too hot, not too cold). 
And finally, I'm going to need a thermostat to constantly adjust.


--

Thanks,

Matt Riedemann


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Re: [openstack-dev] Summit Core Party after Austin

[Thierry Carrez]

Amrith Kumar wrote:

To all who have said the Core Party was a bad thing, let me echo Sean's 
feelings, and add that I actually liked the core parties more than any of the 
others, and actually found them to be a very good thing. I too got to meet 
people who I would normally not have had a chance to have a conversation with.

They were the only social events where one could have a conversation without 
having to talk over music at 179dB (tissue death occurs at 180dB, [1]). 
However, the thing that some have called exclusivity (exclusionary) is not 
consistent with OpenStack.

I would therefore like to take the opportunity to thank Mark and the team who 
have run these events in the past, and make a request for more social events 
where the sound level is limited to, say 80dB?

The value of the social events is in the social interactions and the 
conversation, and the opportunity to meet and interact with people in the 
community that one would not have otherwise had a chance to do. I can do 
without the hearing loss, thank you very much.

So thanks Mark, and thanks to team HP for making this possible.


Although I think the focus on "core reviewers" was wrong, let me say 
that those were always the best party in the week. The combination of 
quiet setting, smaller attendance, local/cultural content and great food 
always made those a treat.


--
Thierry Carrez (ttx)

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Re: [openstack-dev] Summit Core Party after Austin

[Amrith Kumar]

Many thanks Tom!

> -Original Message-
> From: Tom Fifield [mailto:t...@openstack.org]
> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 5:59 PM
> To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org
> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] Summit Core Party after Austin
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> On 22/04/16 16:40, Clint Byrum wrote:
> > But in the mean time, maybe we can just send this message to party
> > planners: Provide us with interesting spaces to converse and bond in,
> > and we will be happier.
> 
> Spoke with the party planners and got the inside gossip :)
> 
> The good news: for the Austin summit party, those who are looking for a
> quieter space will be served as well as those who enjoy live music.
> 
> ProTip: http://stackcityaustin.openstack.org/map.php
> 
> For the quieter space, G'Raj Mahal, Parlor Room and L'Estelle are the ones
> you want. Within these venues, the noise will come from your voices,
> rather than an amplified band.
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> 
> Tom
> 
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Re: [openstack-dev] Summit Core Party after Austin

[Morgan Fainberg]

On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 2:58 PM, Tom Fifield  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> On 22/04/16 16:40, Clint Byrum wrote:
>
>> But in the mean time, maybe we can just send this message
>> to party planners: Provide us with interesting spaces to converse and
>> bond in, and we will be happier.
>>
>
> Spoke with the party planners and got the inside gossip :)
>
> The good news: for the Austin summit party, those who are looking for a
> quieter space will be served as well as those who enjoy live music.
>
> ProTip: http://stackcityaustin.openstack.org/map.php
>
> For the quieter space, G'Raj Mahal, Parlor Room and L'Estelle are the ones
> you want. Within these venues, the noise will come from your voices, rather
> than an amplified band.
>
>
>
Fantastic tips! Thanks Tom!


>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Tom
>
>
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Re: [openstack-dev] Summit Core Party after Austin

[Tom Fifield]

Hi all,

On 22/04/16 16:40, Clint Byrum wrote:

But in the mean time, maybe we can just send this message
to party planners: Provide us with interesting spaces to converse and
bond in, and we will be happier.


Spoke with the party planners and got the inside gossip :)

The good news: for the Austin summit party, those who are looking for a 
quieter space will be served as well as those who enjoy live music.


ProTip: http://stackcityaustin.openstack.org/map.php

For the quieter space, G'Raj Mahal, Parlor Room and L'Estelle are the 
ones you want. Within these venues, the noise will come from your 
voices, rather than an amplified band.




Regards,



Tom

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Re: [openstack-dev] Summit Core Party after Austin

[Clint Byrum]

Excerpts from Chivers, Doug's message of 2016-04-22 10:17:45 -0700:
> The Vancouver core party was a fantastic opportunity to meet some very smart 
> people and learn a lot about the projects they worked on. It was probably one 
> of the most useful parts of the summit, certainly more so than the greasy 
> marketing party, and arguably a much better use of developer time.
> 
> An opportunity to chill out and talk to technical people over a quiet beer? 
> Long may that continue, even if it is not the core party in its current form.
> 

Honestly, a common theme I see in all of this is "can we just have more
relaxed evening events?"

Perhaps this will happen naturally if/when we split design summit and
conference. But in the mean time, maybe we can just send this message
to party planners: Provide us with interesting spaces to converse and
bond in, and we will be happier.

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Re: [openstack-dev] Summit Core Party after Austin

[Chivers, Doug]

The Vancouver core party was a fantastic opportunity to meet some very smart 
people and learn a lot about the projects they worked on. It was probably one 
of the most useful parts of the summit, certainly more so than the greasy 
marketing party, and arguably a much better use of developer time.

An opportunity to chill out and talk to technical people over a quiet beer? 
Long may that continue, even if it is not the core party in its current form.

Doug





On 22/04/2016, 14:52, "Mike Perez"  wrote:

>On 18:57 Apr 21, Thierry Carrez wrote:
>> Thierry Carrez wrote:
>> >[...]
>> >I think it's inappropriate because it gives a wrong incentive to become
>> >a core reviewer. Core reviewing should just be a duty you sign up to,
>> >not necessarily a way to get into a cool party. It was also a bit
>> >exclusive of other types of contributions.
>> >
>> >Apparently in Austin the group was reduced to only release:managed
>> >repositories. This tag is to describe which repositories the release
>> >team is comfortable handling. I think it's inappropriate to reuse it to
>> >single out a subgroup of cool folks, and if that became a tradition the
>> >release team would face pressure from repositories to get the tag that
>> >are totally unrelated to what the tag describes.
>> 
>> Small precision, since I realize after posting this might be taken the wrong
>> way:
>> 
>> Don't get me wrong, HPE is of course free to invite whoever they want to
>> their party :) But since you asked for opinions, my personal wish if it
>> continues would be that it is renamed "the HPE VIP party" rather than
>> partially tie it to specific rights or tags we happen to use upstream.
>
>After seeing numerous threads from people in the community being upset by these
>parties, I'd be fine with them not continuing.
>
>-- 
>Mike Perez
>
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Re: [openstack-dev] Summit Core Party after Austin

[Clint Byrum]

Excerpts from Thierry Carrez's message of 2016-04-21 09:22:53 -0700:
> Michael Krotscheck wrote:
> > So, HPE is seeking sponsors to continue the core party. The reasons are
> > varied - internal sponsors have moved to other projects, the Big Tent
> > has drastically increased the # of cores, and the upcoming summit format
> > change creates quite a bit of uncertainty on everything surrounding the
> > summit.
> >
> > Furthermore, the existence of the Core party has been... contentious.
> > Some believe it's exclusionary, others think it's inappropriate, yet
> > others think it's a good way to thank those of use who agree to be
> > constantly pestered for code reviews.
> >
> > I'm writing this message for two reasons - mostly, to kick off a
> > discussion on whether the party is worthwhile. Secondly, to signal to
> > other organizations that this promotional opportunity is available.
> >
> > Personally, I appreciate being thanked for my work. I do not necessarily
> > need to be thanked in this fashion, however as the past venues have been
> > far more subdued than the Tuesday night events (think cocktail party),
> > it's a welcome mid-week respite for this overwhelmed little introvert. I
> > don't want to see it go, but I will understand if it does.
> >
> > Some numbers, for those who like them (Thanks to Mark Atwood for
> > providing them):
> >
> > Total repos: 1010
> > Total approvers: 1085
> > Repos for official teams: 566
> > OpenStack repo approvers: 717
> > Repos under release management: 90
> > Managed release repo approvers: 281
> 
> I think it's inappropriate because it gives a wrong incentive to become 
> a core reviewer. Core reviewing should just be a duty you sign up to, 
> not necessarily a way to get into a cool party. It was also a bit 
> exclusive of other types of contributions.
> 
> Apparently in Austin the group was reduced to only release:managed 
> repositories. This tag is to describe which repositories the release 
> team is comfortable handling. I think it's inappropriate to reuse it to 
> single out a subgroup of cool folks, and if that became a tradition the 
> release team would face pressure from repositories to get the tag that 
> are totally unrelated to what the tag describes.
> 
> So.. while I understand the need for calmer parties during the week, I 
> think the general trends is to have less parties and more small group 
> dinners. I would be fine with HPE sponsoring more project team dinners 
> instead :)
> 

I echo all your thoughts above Thierry, though I'd like to keep around
one aspect of them.

Some of these parties have been fantastic for learning about the local
culture of each city, so I want to be clear: that is something that
_does_ embody the spirit of the summit. Being in different cities brings
different individuals, and also puts all of us in a different frame
of mind, which I think opens us up to more collaboration. As has been
stated before, some of our more introverted collaborators welcome the
idea of a smaller party, but still one where introductions can be made,
and new social networks can be built.

Since part of this process is spending more money per person to produce a
deeper cultural experience, I wonder if a more fair system for attendance
could be devised. Instead of limiting to release:managed repositories,
could we randomize selection? In doing so, we could also include a
percentage of people who are not core reviewers but have expressed
interest in attending.

Anyway, I suppose this just boils down to a suggestion for whoever
decides to pick up the bill. Thanks for your consideration, whoever you
are. :)

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Re: [openstack-dev] Summit Core Party after Austin

[Mike Perez]

On 18:57 Apr 21, Thierry Carrez wrote:
> Thierry Carrez wrote:
> >[...]
> >I think it's inappropriate because it gives a wrong incentive to become
> >a core reviewer. Core reviewing should just be a duty you sign up to,
> >not necessarily a way to get into a cool party. It was also a bit
> >exclusive of other types of contributions.
> >
> >Apparently in Austin the group was reduced to only release:managed
> >repositories. This tag is to describe which repositories the release
> >team is comfortable handling. I think it's inappropriate to reuse it to
> >single out a subgroup of cool folks, and if that became a tradition the
> >release team would face pressure from repositories to get the tag that
> >are totally unrelated to what the tag describes.
> 
> Small precision, since I realize after posting this might be taken the wrong
> way:
> 
> Don't get me wrong, HPE is of course free to invite whoever they want to
> their party :) But since you asked for opinions, my personal wish if it
> continues would be that it is renamed "the HPE VIP party" rather than
> partially tie it to specific rights or tags we happen to use upstream.

After seeing numerous threads from people in the community being upset by these
parties, I'd be fine with them not continuing.

-- 
Mike Perez

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Re: [openstack-dev] Summit Core Party after Austin

[Amrith Kumar]

To all who have said the Core Party was a bad thing, let me echo Sean's 
feelings, and add that I actually liked the core parties more than any of the 
others, and actually found them to be a very good thing. I too got to meet 
people who I would normally not have had a chance to have a conversation with.

They were the only social events where one could have a conversation without 
having to talk over music at 179dB (tissue death occurs at 180dB, [1]). 
However, the thing that some have called exclusivity (exclusionary) is not 
consistent with OpenStack. 

I would therefore like to take the opportunity to thank Mark and the team who 
have run these events in the past, and make a request for more social events 
where the sound level is limited to, say 80dB? 

The value of the social events is in the social interactions and the 
conversation, and the opportunity to meet and interact with people in the 
community that one would not have otherwise had a chance to do. I can do 
without the hearing loss, thank you very much.

So thanks Mark, and thanks to team HP for making this possible.

-amrith

[1] http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html

> -Original Message-
> From: Sean Dague [mailto:s...@dague.net]
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2016 4:12 PM
> To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org
> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] Summit Core Party after Austin
> 
> On 04/21/2016 04:04 PM, Monty Taylor wrote:
> > On 04/21/2016 02:08 PM, Devananda van der Veen wrote:
> >> The first cross-project design summit tracks were held at the
> >> following summit, in Atlanta, though I recall it lacking the
> >> necessary participation to be successful. Today, we have many more
> >> avenues to discuss important topics affecting all (or more than one)
> >> projects. The improved transparency into those discussions is
> >> beneficial to everyone; the perceived exclusivity of the "core party"
> is helpful to no one.
> >>
> >> So, in summary, I believe this party served a good purpose in Hong
> >> Kong and Atlanta. While it provided some developers with a quiet
> >> evening for discussions to happen in Paris, Vancouver, and Tokyo, we
> >> now have other
> >> (better) venues for the discussions this party once facilitated, and
> >> it has outlived its purpose.
> >>
> >> For what it's worth, I would be happy to see it replaced with smaller
> >> gatherings around cross-project initiatives. I continue to believe
> >> that one of the most important aspects of our face-to-face
> >> gatherings, as a community, is building the camaraderie and social
> >> connections between developers, both within and across corporate and
> project boundaries.
> >
> > I was in the middle of an email that said some of this, but this says
> > it better.
> >
> > So, ++
> 
> Agree. I'd like to thank Mark for this contribution to our community. I
> know that I had interactions with folks at these events that I probably
> wouldn't have otherwise, that led to understanding different parts of our
> project space and culture.
> 
>   -Sean
> 
> --
> Sean Dague
> http://dague.net
> 
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Re: [openstack-dev] Summit Core Party after Austin

[Flavio Percoco]

On 21/04/16 13:40 -0400, Doug Hellmann wrote:

Excerpts from Thierry Carrez's message of 2016-04-21 18:22:53 +0200:

Michael Krotscheck wrote:
> So, HPE is seeking sponsors to continue the core party. The reasons are
> varied - internal sponsors have moved to other projects, the Big Tent
> has drastically increased the # of cores, and the upcoming summit format
> change creates quite a bit of uncertainty on everything surrounding the
> summit.
>
> Furthermore, the existence of the Core party has been... contentious.
> Some believe it's exclusionary, others think it's inappropriate, yet
> others think it's a good way to thank those of use who agree to be
> constantly pestered for code reviews.
>
> I'm writing this message for two reasons - mostly, to kick off a
> discussion on whether the party is worthwhile. Secondly, to signal to
> other organizations that this promotional opportunity is available.
>
> Personally, I appreciate being thanked for my work. I do not necessarily
> need to be thanked in this fashion, however as the past venues have been
> far more subdued than the Tuesday night events (think cocktail party),
> it's a welcome mid-week respite for this overwhelmed little introvert. I
> don't want to see it go, but I will understand if it does.
>
> Some numbers, for those who like them (Thanks to Mark Atwood for
> providing them):
>
> Total repos: 1010
> Total approvers: 1085
> Repos for official teams: 566
> OpenStack repo approvers: 717
> Repos under release management: 90
> Managed release repo approvers: 281

I think it's inappropriate because it gives a wrong incentive to become
a core reviewer. Core reviewing should just be a duty you sign up to,
not necessarily a way to get into a cool party. It was also a bit
exclusive of other types of contributions.

Apparently in Austin the group was reduced to only release:managed
repositories. This tag is to describe which repositories the release
team is comfortable handling. I think it's inappropriate to reuse it to
single out a subgroup of cool folks, and if that became a tradition the
release team would face pressure from repositories to get the tag that
are totally unrelated to what the tag describes.


I didn't realize the tag was being used that way. I agree it's completely
inappropriate, and I wish someone had asked.



So.. while I understand the need for calmer parties during the week, I
think the general trends is to have less parties and more small group
dinners. I would be fine with HPE sponsoring more project team dinners
instead :)


That fits my vision of the new event, which is less focused on big
glitzy events and more on small socializing opportunities.


++

to all the above! I just wanted to agree with this and I don't have much else to
add.

Flavio

--
@flaper87
Flavio Percoco


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Re: [openstack-dev] Summit Core Party after Austin

[Sean Dague]

On 04/21/2016 04:04 PM, Monty Taylor wrote:
> On 04/21/2016 02:08 PM, Devananda van der Veen wrote:
>> The first cross-project design summit tracks were held at the following
>> summit, in Atlanta, though I recall it lacking the necessary
>> participation to be successful. Today, we have many more avenues to
>> discuss important topics affecting all (or more than one) projects. The
>> improved transparency into those discussions is beneficial to everyone;
>> the perceived exclusivity of the "core party" is helpful to no one.
>>
>> So, in summary, I believe this party served a good purpose in Hong Kong
>> and Atlanta. While it provided some developers with a quiet evening for
>> discussions to happen in Paris, Vancouver, and Tokyo, we now have other
>> (better) venues for the discussions this party once facilitated, and it
>> has outlived its purpose.
>>
>> For what it's worth, I would be happy to see it replaced with smaller
>> gatherings around cross-project initiatives. I continue to believe that
>> one of the most important aspects of our face-to-face gatherings, as a
>> community, is building the camaraderie and social connections between
>> developers, both within and across corporate and project boundaries.
> 
> I was in the middle of an email that said some of this, but this says it
> better.
> 
> So, ++

Agree. I'd like to thank Mark for this contribution to our community. I
know that I had interactions with folks at these events that I probably
wouldn't have otherwise, that led to understanding different parts of
our project space and culture.

-Sean

-- 
Sean Dague
http://dague.net

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Re: [openstack-dev] Summit Core Party after Austin

[Monty Taylor]

On 04/21/2016 02:08 PM, Devananda van der Veen wrote:

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 9:07 AM, Michael Krotscheck
> wrote:

Hey everyone-

So, HPE is seeking sponsors to continue the core party. The reasons
are varied - internal sponsors have moved to other projects, the Big
Tent has drastically increased the # of cores, and the upcoming
summit format change creates quite a bit of uncertainty on
everything surrounding the summit.

Furthermore, the existence of the Core party has been...
contentious. Some believe it's exclusionary, others think it's
inappropriate, yet others think it's a good way to thank those of
use who agree to be constantly pestered for code reviews.

I'm writing this message for two reasons - mostly, to kick off a
discussion on whether the party is worthwhile.


The rationale for the creation of the first "core party" in Hong Kong
was to facilitate a setting for informal discussions that could bring
about a consensus on potentially-contentious cross-project topics, when
there was no other time or location that brought together all the TC
members, PTLs, and project core reviewers -- many of whom did not yet
know each other. Note that Hong Kong was the first summit where the
Technical Committee was composed of elected members, not just PTLs, and
we did not have a separate day at the design summit to discuss
cross-project issues.

The first cross-project design summit tracks were held at the following
summit, in Atlanta, though I recall it lacking the necessary
participation to be successful. Today, we have many more avenues to
discuss important topics affecting all (or more than one) projects. The
improved transparency into those discussions is beneficial to everyone;
the perceived exclusivity of the "core party" is helpful to no one.

So, in summary, I believe this party served a good purpose in Hong Kong
and Atlanta. While it provided some developers with a quiet evening for
discussions to happen in Paris, Vancouver, and Tokyo, we now have other
(better) venues for the discussions this party once facilitated, and it
has outlived its purpose.

For what it's worth, I would be happy to see it replaced with smaller
gatherings around cross-project initiatives. I continue to believe that
one of the most important aspects of our face-to-face gatherings, as a
community, is building the camaraderie and social connections between
developers, both within and across corporate and project boundaries.


I was in the middle of an email that said some of this, but this says it 
better.


So, ++


-Devananda


Secondly, to signal to other organizations that this promotional
opportunity is available.

Personally, I appreciate being thanked for my work. I do not
necessarily need to be thanked in this fashion, however as the past
venues have been far more subdued than the Tuesday night events
(think cocktail party), it's a welcome mid-week respite for this
overwhelmed little introvert. I don't want to see it go, but I will
understand if it does.

Some numbers, for those who like them (Thanks to Mark Atwood for
providing them):

Total repos: 1010
Total approvers: 1085
Repos for official teams: 566
OpenStack repo approvers: 717
Repos under release management: 90
Managed release repo approvers: 281

Michael

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Re: [openstack-dev] Summit Core Party after Austin

[Devananda van der Veen]

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 9:07 AM, Michael Krotscheck 
wrote:

> Hey everyone-
>
> So, HPE is seeking sponsors to continue the core party. The reasons are
> varied - internal sponsors have moved to other projects, the Big Tent has
> drastically increased the # of cores, and the upcoming summit format change
> creates quite a bit of uncertainty on everything surrounding the summit.
>
> Furthermore, the existence of the Core party has been... contentious. Some
> believe it's exclusionary, others think it's inappropriate, yet others
> think it's a good way to thank those of use who agree to be constantly
> pestered for code reviews.
>
> I'm writing this message for two reasons - mostly, to kick off a
> discussion on whether the party is worthwhile.
>

The rationale for the creation of the first "core party" in Hong Kong was
to facilitate a setting for informal discussions that could bring about a
consensus on potentially-contentious cross-project topics, when there was
no other time or location that brought together all the TC members, PTLs,
and project core reviewers -- many of whom did not yet know each other.
Note that Hong Kong was the first summit where the Technical Committee was
composed of elected members, not just PTLs, and we did not have a separate
day at the design summit to discuss cross-project issues.

The first cross-project design summit tracks were held at the following
summit, in Atlanta, though I recall it lacking the necessary participation
to be successful. Today, we have many more avenues to discuss important
topics affecting all (or more than one) projects. The improved transparency
into those discussions is beneficial to everyone; the perceived exclusivity
of the "core party" is helpful to no one.

So, in summary, I believe this party served a good purpose in Hong Kong and
Atlanta. While it provided some developers with a quiet evening for
discussions to happen in Paris, Vancouver, and Tokyo, we now have other
(better) venues for the discussions this party once facilitated, and it has
outlived its purpose.

For what it's worth, I would be happy to see it replaced with smaller
gatherings around cross-project initiatives. I continue to believe that one
of the most important aspects of our face-to-face gatherings, as a
community, is building the camaraderie and social connections between
developers, both within and across corporate and project boundaries.

-Devananda




> Secondly, to signal to other organizations that this promotional
> opportunity is available.
>
> Personally, I appreciate being thanked for my work. I do not necessarily
> need to be thanked in this fashion, however as the past venues have been
> far more subdued than the Tuesday night events (think cocktail party), it's
> a welcome mid-week respite for this overwhelmed little introvert. I don't
> want to see it go, but I will understand if it does.
>
> Some numbers, for those who like them (Thanks to Mark Atwood for providing
> them):
>
> Total repos: 1010
> Total approvers: 1085
> Repos for official teams: 566
> OpenStack repo approvers: 717
> Repos under release management: 90
> Managed release repo approvers: 281
>
> Michael
>
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Re: [openstack-dev] Summit Core Party after Austin

[Shamail Tahir]

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 2:43 PM, Tim Bell  wrote:

>
> On 21/04/16 19:40, "Doug Hellmann"  wrote:
>
> >Excerpts from Thierry Carrez's message of 2016-04-21 18:22:53 +0200:
> >> Michael Krotscheck wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> So.. while I understand the need for calmer parties during the week, I
> >> think the general trends is to have less parties and more small group
> >> dinners. I would be fine with HPE sponsoring more project team dinners
> >> instead :)
> >
> >That fits my vision of the new event, which is less focused on big
> >glitzy events and more on small socializing opportunities.
>
> At OSCON, I remember some very useful discussions where tables had signs
> showing
> the topics for socializing. While I have appreciated the core reviewers
> (and others)
> events, I think there are better formats given the massive expansion of
> the projects
> and ecosystem, which reduce the chances for informal discussions.
>
+1

This is a great idea.. The topics could even be sourced similar to how
lightning talks are determined.  If there is a topic that you are
interested then post/write it down and others can +1 it.

>
> I remember in the OpenStack Boston summit when there was a table marked
> ‘Puppet’ which was one of the most
> productive discussions I have had in the OpenStack summits (Thanks Dan :-)
>
> Tim
>
> >
> >Doug
> >
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-- 
Thanks,
Shamail Tahir
t: @ShamailXD
tz: Eastern Time
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Re: [openstack-dev] Summit Core Party after Austin

[Tim Bell]

On 21/04/16 19:40, "Doug Hellmann"  wrote:

>Excerpts from Thierry Carrez's message of 2016-04-21 18:22:53 +0200:
>> Michael Krotscheck wrote:
>>
>> 
>> So.. while I understand the need for calmer parties during the week, I 
>> think the general trends is to have less parties and more small group 
>> dinners. I would be fine with HPE sponsoring more project team dinners 
>> instead :)
>
>That fits my vision of the new event, which is less focused on big
>glitzy events and more on small socializing opportunities.

At OSCON, I remember some very useful discussions where tables had signs 
showing 
the topics for socializing. While I have appreciated the core reviewers (and 
others)
events, I think there are better formats given the massive expansion of the 
projects
and ecosystem, which reduce the chances for informal discussions.

I remember in the OpenStack Boston summit when there was a table marked 
‘Puppet’ which was one of the most
productive discussions I have had in the OpenStack summits (Thanks Dan :-)

Tim

>
>Doug
>
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Re: [openstack-dev] Summit Core Party after Austin

[Doug Hellmann]

Excerpts from Jeremy Stanley's message of 2016-04-21 17:54:37 +:
> On 2016-04-21 13:40:15 -0400 (-0400), Doug Hellmann wrote:
> [...]
> > I didn't realize the tag was being used that way. I agree it's
> > completely inappropriate, and I wish someone had asked.
> [...]
> 
> It's likely seen by some as a big-tent proxy for the old integrated
> vs. incubated distinction.

I'm sure that's it, even though that's not really what it's about. I
hoped to deprecate that tag anyway, so this is just another reason to do
so.

Doug

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Re: [openstack-dev] Summit Core Party after Austin

[Jeremy Stanley]

On 2016-04-21 13:40:15 -0400 (-0400), Doug Hellmann wrote:
[...]
> I didn't realize the tag was being used that way. I agree it's
> completely inappropriate, and I wish someone had asked.
[...]

It's likely seen by some as a big-tent proxy for the old integrated
vs. incubated distinction.
-- 
Jeremy Stanley

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Re: [openstack-dev] Summit Core Party after Austin

[Doug Hellmann]

Excerpts from Thierry Carrez's message of 2016-04-21 18:22:53 +0200:
> Michael Krotscheck wrote:
> > So, HPE is seeking sponsors to continue the core party. The reasons are
> > varied - internal sponsors have moved to other projects, the Big Tent
> > has drastically increased the # of cores, and the upcoming summit format
> > change creates quite a bit of uncertainty on everything surrounding the
> > summit.
> >
> > Furthermore, the existence of the Core party has been... contentious.
> > Some believe it's exclusionary, others think it's inappropriate, yet
> > others think it's a good way to thank those of use who agree to be
> > constantly pestered for code reviews.
> >
> > I'm writing this message for two reasons - mostly, to kick off a
> > discussion on whether the party is worthwhile. Secondly, to signal to
> > other organizations that this promotional opportunity is available.
> >
> > Personally, I appreciate being thanked for my work. I do not necessarily
> > need to be thanked in this fashion, however as the past venues have been
> > far more subdued than the Tuesday night events (think cocktail party),
> > it's a welcome mid-week respite for this overwhelmed little introvert. I
> > don't want to see it go, but I will understand if it does.
> >
> > Some numbers, for those who like them (Thanks to Mark Atwood for
> > providing them):
> >
> > Total repos: 1010
> > Total approvers: 1085
> > Repos for official teams: 566
> > OpenStack repo approvers: 717
> > Repos under release management: 90
> > Managed release repo approvers: 281
> 
> I think it's inappropriate because it gives a wrong incentive to become 
> a core reviewer. Core reviewing should just be a duty you sign up to, 
> not necessarily a way to get into a cool party. It was also a bit 
> exclusive of other types of contributions.
> 
> Apparently in Austin the group was reduced to only release:managed 
> repositories. This tag is to describe which repositories the release 
> team is comfortable handling. I think it's inappropriate to reuse it to 
> single out a subgroup of cool folks, and if that became a tradition the 
> release team would face pressure from repositories to get the tag that 
> are totally unrelated to what the tag describes.

I didn't realize the tag was being used that way. I agree it's completely
inappropriate, and I wish someone had asked.

> 
> So.. while I understand the need for calmer parties during the week, I 
> think the general trends is to have less parties and more small group 
> dinners. I would be fine with HPE sponsoring more project team dinners 
> instead :)

That fits my vision of the new event, which is less focused on big
glitzy events and more on small socializing opportunities.

Doug

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Re: [openstack-dev] Summit Core Party after Austin

[Thierry Carrez]

Thierry Carrez wrote:

[...]
I think it's inappropriate because it gives a wrong incentive to become
a core reviewer. Core reviewing should just be a duty you sign up to,
not necessarily a way to get into a cool party. It was also a bit
exclusive of other types of contributions.

Apparently in Austin the group was reduced to only release:managed
repositories. This tag is to describe which repositories the release
team is comfortable handling. I think it's inappropriate to reuse it to
single out a subgroup of cool folks, and if that became a tradition the
release team would face pressure from repositories to get the tag that
are totally unrelated to what the tag describes.


Small precision, since I realize after posting this might be taken the 
wrong way:


Don't get me wrong, HPE is of course free to invite whoever they want to 
their party :) But since you asked for opinions, my personal wish if it 
continues would be that it is renamed "the HPE VIP party" rather than 
partially tie it to specific rights or tags we happen to use upstream.


--
Thierry Carrez (ttx)

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Re: [openstack-dev] Summit Core Party after Austin

[Thierry Carrez]

Michael Krotscheck wrote:

So, HPE is seeking sponsors to continue the core party. The reasons are
varied - internal sponsors have moved to other projects, the Big Tent
has drastically increased the # of cores, and the upcoming summit format
change creates quite a bit of uncertainty on everything surrounding the
summit.

Furthermore, the existence of the Core party has been... contentious.
Some believe it's exclusionary, others think it's inappropriate, yet
others think it's a good way to thank those of use who agree to be
constantly pestered for code reviews.

I'm writing this message for two reasons - mostly, to kick off a
discussion on whether the party is worthwhile. Secondly, to signal to
other organizations that this promotional opportunity is available.

Personally, I appreciate being thanked for my work. I do not necessarily
need to be thanked in this fashion, however as the past venues have been
far more subdued than the Tuesday night events (think cocktail party),
it's a welcome mid-week respite for this overwhelmed little introvert. I
don't want to see it go, but I will understand if it does.

Some numbers, for those who like them (Thanks to Mark Atwood for
providing them):

Total repos: 1010
Total approvers: 1085
Repos for official teams: 566
OpenStack repo approvers: 717
Repos under release management: 90
Managed release repo approvers: 281


I think it's inappropriate because it gives a wrong incentive to become 
a core reviewer. Core reviewing should just be a duty you sign up to, 
not necessarily a way to get into a cool party. It was also a bit 
exclusive of other types of contributions.


Apparently in Austin the group was reduced to only release:managed 
repositories. This tag is to describe which repositories the release 
team is comfortable handling. I think it's inappropriate to reuse it to 
single out a subgroup of cool folks, and if that became a tradition the 
release team would face pressure from repositories to get the tag that 
are totally unrelated to what the tag describes.


So.. while I understand the need for calmer parties during the week, I 
think the general trends is to have less parties and more small group 
dinners. I would be fine with HPE sponsoring more project team dinners 
instead :)


--
Thierry Carrez (ttx)

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Re: [openstack-dev] Summit Core Party after Austin

[Morgan Fainberg]

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 9:07 AM, Michael Krotscheck 
wrote:

> Hey everyone-
>
> So, HPE is seeking sponsors to continue the core party. The reasons are
> varied - internal sponsors have moved to other projects, the Big Tent has
> drastically increased the # of cores, and the upcoming summit format change
> creates quite a bit of uncertainty on everything surrounding the summit.
>
> Furthermore, the existence of the Core party has been... contentious. Some
> believe it's exclusionary, others think it's inappropriate, yet others
> think it's a good way to thank those of use who agree to be constantly
> pestered for code reviews.
>
> I'm writing this message for two reasons - mostly, to kick off a
> discussion on whether the party is worthwhile. Secondly, to signal to other
> organizations that this promotional opportunity is available.
>
> Personally, I appreciate being thanked for my work. I do not necessarily
> need to be thanked in this fashion, however as the past venues have been
> far more subdued than the Tuesday night events (think cocktail party), it's
> a welcome mid-week respite for this overwhelmed little introvert. I don't
> want to see it go, but I will understand if it does.
>
> Some numbers, for those who like them (Thanks to Mark Atwood for providing
> them):
>
> Total repos: 1010
> Total approvers: 1085
> Repos for official teams: 566
> OpenStack repo approvers: 717
> Repos under release management: 90
> Managed release repo approvers: 281
>
> Michael
>

Personally, I am in the camp that the core party is something that should
not be continued because of it's somewhat exclusionary aspects. I don't
have an alternative in mind to fill the space of the party. I often find
that given an open/free night something a bit more subdued (even than the
core party) can occur, it just tends to be in a number of smaller groups.
Having a further respite from the speed/intensity of the summit (an open
night with even less plans!), would be welcome to many of us.

Also consider the split summit proposal and if the core party really has a
place in the new proposed summit/project gathering world.

Cheers,
--Morgan
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