Re: [osg-users] Anyone Experimenting with OSVR

[David Glenn]

dimi christop wrote:
> I also just got my Unit.
> The say that the HDK 1.3 hav superior lenses compared to the DK2.
> OSG support should be possible taking the osvrtrackviewer code as a starting 
> point . They use side-side split screen stereo.
> 
> 
> Dimi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 8:50 PM, David Glenn <> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Greetings All!
> 
> Got my OSVR HDKv1.3 last week! I had to wait till the weekend to really try 
> it out and there are still parts of it that I have not tried out yet (like 
> the IR camera). So far most of the effort has been testing what works and 
> what is a work in progress. One thing that I noticed off the bat is that the 
> screen is only at an HD level. 
> 
> Also, I'm evaluating it using game development software. So I'm going off the 
> deep end right out of the box. I feel comfortable doing this given that I 
> have already been dabbling in Oculus Rift from the start, so I can compare 
> and contrast. So far, I have dealt with Dev Kit 1 and have dabbled with DK2 
> and other demos and this is just another notch in the belt for me, but most 
> of this has been done using Unity because it more geared to what my handlers 
> expect me to develop to theses days. 
> 
> However, I am always looking at subjects that I can learn and give talks 
> about and I'm getting a little sick of talking terrain. VR has a little more 
> meat on bones and it would be nice to get something working in VR for the 
> next SIGGRAPH BOF. 
> 
> Oh, and it looking at it, there seems to be at least one OSVR test app that 
> uses OSG, but it's not a VR Demo as it is just a way to test head tracking 
> movement. 
> 
> ... 
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Cheers,
> David
> 
> 
> David Glenn
> ---
> D Glenn 3D Computer Graphics Entertainment.
> www.dglenn.com
> 
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So far I have only tried the IR camera once with limited success! The internal 
accelerometer seems to work well enough for me so I've just been using that 
alone for now. They have a Unity plug-in and it has it's own version of the 
server that I've been using. I have made some Unity test Demos using that and 
it has been working well. 

I'm going to whip up some simulation demo and attach OSVR (and later Oculus 
Rift) to it. Maybe John will let me demo it at one of his BOF's at Siggraph 
this year. I may give a pretention at one of the fan cons - like at Dragon Con. 
 

I'm almost putting the PowerPoint presentation together as I speak.

Using this stuff, I'm reminded of the tracking stuff that I used to do when was 
working in immersive simulation. Especially the tracking! I used to use that 
tracking hardware that InterSense made long ago! I know that it's exactly like 
the good old days, but it surprisingly close - even better in some ways! :)


David Glenn
---
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www.dglenn.com

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Re: [osg-users] Anyone Experimenting with OSVR

[dimi christop]

I also just got my Unit.The say that the HDK 1.3 hav superior lenses compared 
to the DK2.OSG support should be possible taking the osvrtrackviewer  code as a 
starting point . They use side-side split screen stereo.
Dimi

 

On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 8:50 PM, David Glenn  wrote:
 

 Greetings All!

Got my OSVR HDKv1.3 last week! I had to wait till the weekend to really try it 
out and there are still parts of it that I have not tried out yet (like the IR 
camera). So far most of the effort has been testing what works and what is a 
work in progress. One thing that I noticed off the bat is that the screen is 
only at an HD level. 

Also, I'm evaluating it using game development software. So I'm going off the 
deep end right out of the box. I feel comfortable doing this given that I have 
already been dabbling in Oculus Rift from the start, so I can compare and 
contrast. So far, I have dealt with Dev Kit 1 and have dabbled with DK2 and 
other demos and this is just another notch in the belt for me, but most of this 
has been done using Unity because it more geared to what my handlers expect me 
to develop to theses days. 

However, I am always looking at subjects that I can learn and give talks about 
and I'm getting a little sick of talking terrain. VR has a little more meat on 
bones and it would be nice to get something working in VR for the next SIGGRAPH 
BOF. 

Oh, and it looking at it, there seems to be at least one OSVR test app that 
uses OSG, but it's not a VR Demo as it is just a way to test head tracking 
movement.    

... 

Thank you!

Cheers,
David


David Glenn
---
D Glenn 3D Computer Graphics Entertainment.
www.dglenn.com

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Re: [osg-users] Anyone Experimenting with OSVR

[David Glenn]

Greetings All!

Got my OSVR HDKv1.3 last week! I had to wait till the weekend to really try it 
out and there are still parts of it that I have not tried out yet (like the IR 
camera). So far most of the effort has been testing what works and what is a 
work in progress. One thing that I noticed off the bat is that the screen is 
only at an HD level. 

Also, I'm evaluating it using game development software. So I'm going off the 
deep end right out of the box. I feel comfortable doing this given that I have 
already been dabbling in Oculus Rift from the start, so I can compare and 
contrast. So far, I have dealt with Dev Kit 1 and have dabbled with DK2 and 
other demos and this is just another notch in the belt for me, but most of this 
has been done using Unity because it more geared to what my handlers expect me 
to develop to theses days. 

However, I am always looking at subjects that I can learn and give talks about 
and I'm getting a little sick of talking terrain. VR has a little more meat on 
bones and it would be nice to get something working in VR for the next SIGGRAPH 
BOF. 

Oh, and it looking at it, there seems to be at least one OSVR test app that 
uses OSG, but it's not a VR Demo as it is just a way to test head tracking 
movement. 

... 

Thank you!

Cheers,
David


David Glenn
---
D Glenn 3D Computer Graphics Entertainment.
www.dglenn.com

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Re: [osg-users] Anyone Experimenting with OSVR

[Jan Ciger]

On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 9:37 AM, Björn Blissing  wrote:

>
> This is a good idea, provided that you are able to send the HMD an image with 
> higher resolution then the native resolution of the display. Otherwise the 
> warping inside the FPGA will have too few pixels to work with.
>
> /Björn

Well, that is no different than what we do now with the Rifts - you
also render in higher resolution so that the shaders have a margin for
the warping. I don't know which version of HDMI does the HDK use, but
there should be ample bandwidth to do this. If they are using Display
Port instead, it is even easier, because that supports higher
resolutions.

J.
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Re: [osg-users] Anyone Experimenting with OSVR

[Björn Blissing]

Jan Ciger wrote:
> The HDK itself has some interesting features that no other consumer HMD on 
> the market has, though. Display resolution is not the main thing there, even 
> though it should be comparable to Rift DK2.
> 
> For me the key differentiator is the built-in FPGA for image processing. That 
> could do things like the image distortion and colour aberration correction in 
> hardware, without the application needing to be aware of it all. The 
> application feeds it a regular side-by-side or frame sequential signal and 
> the FPGA would do all the work that currently has to be hacked in through 
> shaders or the late image warping used by Rift for reducing the tracking 
> latency. Basically that would make integration of such HMD very trivial, not 
> requiring specific support from Nvidia or a proprietary SDK where you are at 
> the mercy of the driver vendor because everything is done by your PC. 


This is a good idea, provided that you are able to send the HMD an image with 
higher resolution then the native resolution of the display. Otherwise the 
warping inside the FPGA will have too few pixels to work with.

/Björn

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Re: [osg-users] Anyone Experimenting with OSVR

[Jan Ciger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello,

On 19/11/15 19:50, David Glenn wrote:
> Greetings All!
> 
> I've been messing with Rift at work for some time now but mostly on
> Unity, so I wanted to get a feel of how others are out there and I
> did get a taste of OSVR at the razor booth at GDC. So when it came
> to getting one for my own experimentation, I decided to try the HDK
> out! I Figure that it might not be at the level of Crescent Bay,
> but it can't be any worse than DK1.
> 
> That's about the level that I've been able to study at in given
> that I'm not a AAA game developer.
> 
> FYI: My lone game credit in my resume was WWII-online!
> 

Please be aware that OSVR is not really the HMD (HDK) - the much
larger part is the software framework to manage the VR hardware for
you application (even if you are not using the HDK).

The HDK itself has some interesting features that no other consumer
HMD on the market has, though. Display resolution is not the main
thing there, even though it should be comparable to Rift DK2.

For me the key differentiator is the built-in FPGA for image
processing. That could do things like the image distortion and colour
aberration correction in hardware, without the application needing to
be aware of it all. The application feeds it a regular side-by-side or
frame sequential signal and the FPGA would do all the work that
currently has to be hacked in through shaders or the late image
warping used by Rift for reducing the tracking latency. Basically that
would make integration of such HMD very trivial, not requiring
specific support from Nvidia or a proprietary SDK where you are at the
mercy of the driver vendor because everything is done by your PC. You
could  even connect the thing to your Bluray player or a Playstation
and play 3D movies on it directly, without any special software
support. Good luck trying to do something like that with the Rift ...


The FPGA firmware for this isn't available yet, but the hardware is in
place and is documented - they are a bit hoping that some 3rdparty
hacker will sit down and write the necessary Verilog for this, based
on the recent blog post.

Regards,

J.




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Re: [osg-users] Anyone Experimenting with OSVR

[David Glenn]

Greetings All!

I've been messing with Rift at work for some time now but mostly on Unity, so I 
wanted to get a feel of how others are out there and I did get a taste of OSVR 
at the razor booth at GDC. So when it came to getting one for my own 
experimentation, I decided to try the HDK out! I Figure that it might not be at 
the level of Crescent Bay, but it can't be any worse than DK1. 

That's about the level that I've been able to study at in given that I'm not a 
AAA game developer. 

FYI: My lone game credit in my resume was WWII-online!


David Glenn
---
D Glenn 3D Computer Graphics Entertainment.
www.dglenn.com

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Re: [osg-users] Anyone Experimenting with OSVR

[Björn Blissing]

Hi David,

I looked at it a couple of months back. My hope was to generalize my Oculus 
integration to be able to use OSVR as well. But due to lack of time and lack of 
an OSVR HMD for testing I had to abandon my efforts. 

Regards
Björn

>-Original Message-
>From: osg-users [mailto:osg-users-boun...@lists.openscenegraph.org] On
>Behalf Of David Glenn
>Sent: Monday, November 09, 2015 11:27 PM
>To: osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org
>Subject: [osg-users] Anyone Experimenting with OSVR
>
>Greetings All!
>
>Is anyone experimenting with OSVR yet?
>
>I know that there is some Oculus stuff that people have tried with some
>limited success, but just wondering if anyone looked at it from the OSVR
>standpoint!
>
>...
>
>Thank you!
>
>Cheers,
>David
>
>
>David Glenn
>---
>D Glenn 3D Computer Graphics Entertainment.
>www.dglenn.com
>
>--
>Read this topic online here:
>http://forum.openscenegraph.org/viewtopic.php?p=65589#65589
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [osg-users] Anyone Experimenting with OSVR

[Jan Ciger]

Hi,

On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Björn Blissing  wrote:
> Hi David,
>
> I looked at it a couple of months back. My hope was to generalize my Oculus 
> integration to be able to use OSVR as well. But due to lack of time and lack 
> of an OSVR HMD for testing I had to abandon my efforts.

You don't really need an OSVR HDK to test this. It should work even
with Oculus Rift DK1 and DK2, Vrvana's Totem and, of course, the
Sensics HMDs (dSight and such). They ship example descriptors for
these.

Basically what OSVR manages for you is mainly the display
configuration - things like what are the distortion parameters, IPD,
focal distance, resolution, etc.

I am not sure whether or not there are plugins written to initialize
the individual HMDs and handle their built-in trackers - I am sure
there is one for the OSVR HDK, but I haven't seen ones for the other
HMDs. If there isn't one already (I didn't really look), it wouldn't
be too hard to write one, though, using the official Rift SDK.

Correction: Of course that there is one:
https://github.com/OSVR/OSVR-Oculus-Rift (haven't tried it)

Regards,

Jan
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Re: [osg-users] Anyone Experimenting with OSVR

[Jan Ciger]

On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 11:26 PM, David Glenn  wrote:
> Greetings All!
>
> Is anyone experimenting with OSVR yet?
>
> I know that there is some Oculus stuff that people have tried with some 
> limited success, but just wondering if anyone looked at it from the OSVR 
> standpoint!

I am doing quite a bit of OSVR integration work at my current job,
mostly because we use GearVR quite a bit and getting VRPN working on
Android and in Unity3D is a pain. It can be done, but OSVR had
supposedly supported Android port and more features, so we have tried
that instead.

In short, the framework parts related to device management and
tracking work, even though you need to expect some rough edges. It is
basically a layer on top of VRPN (the VRPN maintainer now works for
Sensics, the company behind OSVR), with the protocol mostly being
compatible. For example, you can use VRPN clients to receive data from
an OSVR server for devices like trackers or buttons, of course without
the extra metadata.

I have also written a few plugins for OSVR to expose data from other
sources (Kinect, Natural Point's Optitrack, etc.) or to
process/transform tracking data using scripts - the APIs required are
there and it basically works, even though a few things are still a bit
rough. It is usable, though.

Where things could go south is if you try to do things the OSVR
developers didn't anticipate - I think I am one of the leading
external bug reporters on their issue tracker because we are always
finding use cases they didn't expect or that nobody has attempted
before.

For example, right now it is impossible to use an external OSVR server
(i.e. not running on the same machine as your client - probably the
most common VRPN setup) with the official code, unless you use kludges
like defining an environment variable or a local OSVR server to point
to the remote one. The code to allow this is there and works, but I
was told that the clients are not supposed to use the sw in this way
so it is not exposed in the API. I have a patch submitted for this,
but it wasn't accepted yet.

I cannot comment on the parts related to HMDs (management of
distortion and such) - never used it and Oculus Rift and GearVR that
we use pretty much require the use of their native SDKs so unless you
have the OSVR HDK helmet, it is probably not going to be all that
useful, because the Rift-proprietary features will not be supported
(at least with the current code - could change in the future).

>From what I can see from the source, the HMD support is right now
mostly about publishing the HMD parameters (like the distortion
parameters, focal length, etc.) in the metadata tree and then there
are some utilities and examples provided that can use that information
and calculate the correct matrices for your client application (it
uses Eigen everywhere, so it is API agnostic), making it independent
from the exact model of the HMD you use. At least that's the idea, the
practical implementation (and performance) of this remains to be seen.
There may be some other tools available which are outside of the main
OSVR-Core tree, but I haven't looked at this part of OSVR in any
depth, so take this with a grain of salt.

Also keep in mind that OSVR is still under a heavy development - if
you need unconditional API/protocol stability, it is probably safer to
use VRPN, which is a known quantity and pretty much an industry
standard. In addition, there is likely a lot of OSVR development
happening out of public view - they (Sensics) are certainly at least
in talks with major hw/sw players if not in collaborations already,
judging from the list of partners, so things will most likely change
quite a bit.

On the other hand, VRPN is very limited compared to what OSVR can do,
especially when it comes to publishing of the metadata - publishing
things like names of the tracked rigid bodies, marker - rigid body
associations, orphan markers in the scene, quality of tracking per
joint, etc. VRPN cannot deal with any of that without major
nonstandard kludges. OSVR is also designed for runtime reconfiguration
without restarting the server, so you can have plugins publish changes
(e.g. when a new device is connected) on the fly and the client will
pick that up and re-establish the data routing correctly. Again not
something typical VRPN setups can do.

I suggest you test the software and see whether it fits your needs.

Regards,

Jan
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[osg-users] Anyone Experimenting with OSVR

[David Glenn]

Greetings All!

Is anyone experimenting with OSVR yet?

I know that there is some Oculus stuff that people have tried with some limited 
success, but just wondering if anyone looked at it from the OSVR standpoint!  

... 

Thank you!

Cheers,
David


David Glenn
---
D Glenn 3D Computer Graphics Entertainment.
www.dglenn.com

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