Re: [OT] Developer keyboard
On a similar note, does anyone know where you can still get Microsoft Digital Media Keyboard 1.0a. They are still my favourite but seem not to be sold anymore. http://greengateway.home.pl/allegro//DSC_02411.JPG On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Richards ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote: A bit off topic and a bit on topic. I've been in the market for a good developer keyboard for a while but never seem to find anything I like. I was just wondering if others on this list had found a decent keyboard. A few qualifying points: I don't want a number pad or at least I don't want one on the right of the keyboard. Not that I have anything against them, I just want my mouse to be closer. I've tested this using a cheap (and crappy) laptop like keyboard and there is a noticeable difference in comfort. I can just as easily by a separate number pad keyboard to position elsewhere. I would prefer the cursor keys and the other navigation keys to be in a reasonable location. My crappy keyboard as some of these along the bottom. It also sacrificed the right Control key in favour of a Scroll Lock key. Who uses scroll lock any more? I don't like those ergonomic keyboards that split the keyboard to be comfortable for two hands. I don't know about the rest of you but I spend at least as much time with one hand on the mouse and the other on the keyboard as I do with both hands on the keyboard. So the ergonomic aspects are actually a hindrance when typing with one hand. I don't care about media buttons or any other specific use button. I never user them. They just make the keyboard bigger. 20% of the keys on my current keyboard will never be used. Obviously I want the keys to be comfortable to use 8 hours a day. The recently announce keyboard from microsoft is fairly close to what I'm looking for: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/08/microsofts-new-ergonomic-keyboard-is-just-plain-weird-looking/ But it's ergonomic style is a bit of a negative. Any thoughts? David If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... checkmate! -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama
Re: [OT] Developer keyboard
Who uses scroll lock any more? Teracopy. Uses it as a flag to decide whether to use Windows or Teracopy as the default copying mechanism. Sent from my flux capacitor. Please excuse brevity and any odd autocorrect errors. On 15/08/2013 12:05 PM, David Richards ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote: A bit off topic and a bit on topic. I've been in the market for a good developer keyboard for a while but never seem to find anything I like. I was just wondering if others on this list had found a decent keyboard. A few qualifying points: I don't want a number pad or at least I don't want one on the right of the keyboard. Not that I have anything against them, I just want my mouse to be closer. I've tested this using a cheap (and crappy) laptop like keyboard and there is a noticeable difference in comfort. I can just as easily by a separate number pad keyboard to position elsewhere. I would prefer the cursor keys and the other navigation keys to be in a reasonable location. My crappy keyboard as some of these along the bottom. It also sacrificed the right Control key in favour of a Scroll Lock key. Who uses scroll lock any more? I don't like those ergonomic keyboards that split the keyboard to be comfortable for two hands. I don't know about the rest of you but I spend at least as much time with one hand on the mouse and the other on the keyboard as I do with both hands on the keyboard. So the ergonomic aspects are actually a hindrance when typing with one hand. I don't care about media buttons or any other specific use button. I never user them. They just make the keyboard bigger. 20% of the keys on my current keyboard will never be used. Obviously I want the keys to be comfortable to use 8 hours a day. The recently announce keyboard from microsoft is fairly close to what I'm looking for: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/08/microsofts-new-ergonomic-keyboard-is-just-plain-weird-looking/ But it's ergonomic style is a bit of a negative. Any thoughts? David If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... checkmate! -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama
Re: [OT] Developer keyboard
Ergonomic keyboards are a must as you get older. I have been using one since 2000. When i type on a normal keyboard for more than a few hours I suffer from tremendous wrist pain and can't type for hours afterwards. Davy Sent from my starfleet datapad. On 14 août 2013, at 19:05, David Richards ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote: A bit off topic and a bit on topic. I've been in the market for a good developer keyboard for a while but never seem to find anything I like. I was just wondering if others on this list had found a decent keyboard. A few qualifying points: I don't want a number pad or at least I don't want one on the right of the keyboard. Not that I have anything against them, I just want my mouse to be closer. I've tested this using a cheap (and crappy) laptop like keyboard and there is a noticeable difference in comfort. I can just as easily by a separate number pad keyboard to position elsewhere. I would prefer the cursor keys and the other navigation keys to be in a reasonable location. My crappy keyboard as some of these along the bottom. It also sacrificed the right Control key in favour of a Scroll Lock key. Who uses scroll lock any more? I don't like those ergonomic keyboards that split the keyboard to be comfortable for two hands. I don't know about the rest of you but I spend at least as much time with one hand on the mouse and the other on the keyboard as I do with both hands on the keyboard. So the ergonomic aspects are actually a hindrance when typing with one hand. I don't care about media buttons or any other specific use button. I never user them. They just make the keyboard bigger. 20% of the keys on my current keyboard will never be used. Obviously I want the keys to be comfortable to use 8 hours a day. The recently announce keyboard from microsoft is fairly close to what I'm looking for: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/08/microsofts-new-ergonomic-keyboard-is-just-plain-weird-looking/ But it's ergonomic style is a bit of a negative. Any thoughts? David If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... checkmate! -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama
Re: [OT] Developer keyboard
That's the keyboard I'm using. It's pretty good as far as keyboards go. The keys feel nice to use. All the extra buttons go unused. It also puts my mouse at least 40cm off my centre line. My arm is on what I guess is a 45 degree angle to reach it. I think reducing that will have a substantial benefit in the long run. David If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... checkmate! -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama On 15 August 2013 12:11, Craig van Nieuwkerk crai...@gmail.com wrote: On a similar note, does anyone know where you can still get Microsoft Digital Media Keyboard 1.0a. They are still my favourite but seem not to be sold anymore. http://greengateway.home.pl/allegro//DSC_02411.JPG On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Richards ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote: A bit off topic and a bit on topic. I've been in the market for a good developer keyboard for a while but never seem to find anything I like. I was just wondering if others on this list had found a decent keyboard. A few qualifying points: I don't want a number pad or at least I don't want one on the right of the keyboard. Not that I have anything against them, I just want my mouse to be closer. I've tested this using a cheap (and crappy) laptop like keyboard and there is a noticeable difference in comfort. I can just as easily by a separate number pad keyboard to position elsewhere. I would prefer the cursor keys and the other navigation keys to be in a reasonable location. My crappy keyboard as some of these along the bottom. It also sacrificed the right Control key in favour of a Scroll Lock key. Who uses scroll lock any more? I don't like those ergonomic keyboards that split the keyboard to be comfortable for two hands. I don't know about the rest of you but I spend at least as much time with one hand on the mouse and the other on the keyboard as I do with both hands on the keyboard. So the ergonomic aspects are actually a hindrance when typing with one hand. I don't care about media buttons or any other specific use button. I never user them. They just make the keyboard bigger. 20% of the keys on my current keyboard will never be used. Obviously I want the keys to be comfortable to use 8 hours a day. The recently announce keyboard from microsoft is fairly close to what I'm looking for: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/08/microsofts-new-ergonomic-keyboard-is-just-plain-weird-looking/ But it's ergonomic style is a bit of a negative. Any thoughts? David If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... checkmate! -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama
Re: [OT] Developer keyboard
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Richards ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote: A bit off topic and a bit on topic. I've been in the market for a good developer keyboard for a while but never seem to find anything I like. I was just wondering if others on this list had found a decent keyboard. A few qualifying points: I don't want a number pad or at least I don't want one on the right of the keyboard. Not that I have anything against them, I just want my mouse to be closer. I've tested this using a cheap (and crappy) laptop like keyboard and there is a noticeable difference in comfort. I can just as easily by a separate number pad keyboard to position elsewhere. Or not at all. If you touchtype, they are almost unused. Funny I didn't realise this, I just picked up my somewhat used KB and held it to reflect light. Right. The numeric KB is still matte, the main KB numbers are shiny with wear. I would prefer the cursor keys and the other navigation keys to be in a reasonable location. My crappy keyboard as some of these along the bottom. It also sacrificed the right Control key in favour of a Scroll Lock key. Who uses scroll lock any more? What does it even do? I don't like those ergonomic keyboards that split the keyboard to be comfortable for two hands. I don't know about the rest of you but I spend at least as much time with one hand on the mouse and the other on the keyboard as I do with both hands on the keyboard. So the ergonomic aspects are actually a hindrance when typing with one hand. Disagree. Going back to flat KB's is a major pain now for me. I don't care about media buttons or any other specific use button. I never user them. They just make the keyboard bigger. 20% of the keys on my current keyboard will never be used. Agree, and get rid of the effing flock key and all the media shifts on the f keys. Obviously I want the keys to be comfortable to use 8 hours a day. Dude, at least 8. You likely use a KB another 4-8 when you get home. The recently announce keyboard from microsoft is fairly close to what I'm looking for: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/08/microsofts-new-ergonomic-keyboard-is-just-plain-weird-looking/ But it's ergonomic style is a bit of a negative. Yes, and I'm going to call in at officeworks to buy one on the way home. Thank you! Re ergonomic. Try it for a while, you'll learn to love leaning your wrists on something. And likely hate the normal ones. I use one at home on the iMac - for such an ergonomic company Apple has awful keyboards and mice. -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
Re: [OT] Developer keyboard
Do not accept that the ergonomic keyboard will make your life easier. I used one for well over a year before I realised I hated it. its too big, its inconvenient. when debugging step out is a pain in the neck as I'm used to using my left hand alone to do this (Shift-11) as my right hand is on the mouse so i can inspect variables or whatever I need to do when debugging. I'm back on a compact keyboard - works for me. http://www.dhgate.com/product/new-dell-mini-1012-series-uk-black-keyboard/143650991.html?utm_source=plautm_medium=GMCutm_campaign=wisshenutm_term=143650991f=bm%7c143650991%7c104006-Keyboards-Mice-Input%7cGMC%7cAdwords%7cpla%7cwisshen%7cAU%7c104006007-LaptopReplacementKeyboards%7cc%7cgclid=CIvSya7F_rgCFcYipQodXjoAkA On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Corneliu I. Tusnea corne...@acorns.com.au wrote: Hi David, I'm a big fan of keyboards and I've tested heaps and heaps of them and I always go back to the ergonomic ones from Microsoft. I know you don't like them but I think they are very very good and once you get used you'll never want to go back. I'm currently using the Microsoft Natural 400 http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/natural-ergonomic-keyboard-4000 I have one at home and one at work and they rock. The split angle is small enough to allow easy use with one hand in the rare moments that I need to use a single hand and keep a hand on the mouse. The older ergonomic ones were having a higher angle making them impossible to use with one hand. I also looked at that new Manta Ray and I think I'll buy one. I like that the keypad is separate and I love the long delete key (my previous keyboard had that long delete and I enjoyed it. To make my life easier I always remap most of VS commands that I frequently use to use only the left hand with no need to use the right hand. - Alt+1 - Build Selected Project - Alt+2 - Find References (Resharper) - Alt+W - Highlight References - Alt+Q - Goto Definition and few more so you can keep a hand on the mouse and one on the keyboard :) I think no keyboard shortcut should ever need two hands. Whoever came up with the Ctrl+Shift+F12 shortcut and Ctrl+Shift+B? Have you tried to press Ctrl+Shift+B with one hand? My hand hurts just looking a the keyboard to try to figure out how to press that. On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 1:08 PM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Richards ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote: A bit off topic and a bit on topic. I've been in the market for a good developer keyboard for a while but never seem to find anything I like. I was just wondering if others on this list had found a decent keyboard. A few qualifying points: I don't want a number pad or at least I don't want one on the right of the keyboard. Not that I have anything against them, I just want my mouse to be closer. I've tested this using a cheap (and crappy) laptop like keyboard and there is a noticeable difference in comfort. I can just as easily by a separate number pad keyboard to position elsewhere. Or not at all. If you touchtype, they are almost unused. Funny I didn't realise this, I just picked up my somewhat used KB and held it to reflect light. Right. The numeric KB is still matte, the main KB numbers are shiny with wear. I would prefer the cursor keys and the other navigation keys to be in a reasonable location. My crappy keyboard as some of these along the bottom. It also sacrificed the right Control key in favour of a Scroll Lock key. Who uses scroll lock any more? What does it even do? I don't like those ergonomic keyboards that split the keyboard to be comfortable for two hands. I don't know about the rest of you but I spend at least as much time with one hand on the mouse and the other on the keyboard as I do with both hands on the keyboard. So the ergonomic aspects are actually a hindrance when typing with one hand. Disagree. Going back to flat KB's is a major pain now for me. I don't care about media buttons or any other specific use button. I never user them. They just make the keyboard bigger. 20% of the keys on my current keyboard will never be used. Agree, and get rid of the effing flock key and all the media shifts on the f keys. Obviously I want the keys to be comfortable to use 8 hours a day. Dude, at least 8. You likely use a KB another 4-8 when you get home. The recently announce keyboard from microsoft is fairly close to what I'm looking for: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/08/microsofts-new-ergonomic-keyboard-is-just-plain-weird-looking/ But it's ergonomic style is a bit of a negative. Yes, and I'm going to call in at officeworks to buy one on the way home. Thank you! Re ergonomic. Try it for a while, you'll learn to love leaning your wrists on something. And likely hate the normal ones. I use one at home on the iMac - for such an ergonomic company Apple has awful
Re: [OT] Developer keyboard
You really ought to try a mechanical keyboard. They are more expensive but they are solid, well built, and will last you a lifetime if you look after them. My (non-touch) typing has improved by a factor of 2, and I was pretty fast before this. Look at Armor for a wireless one or SteelSeries for a wired one. On 15 August 2013 13:51, Wallace Turner wallace.tur...@gmail.com wrote: Do not accept that the ergonomic keyboard will make your life easier. I used one for well over a year before I realised I hated it. its too big, its inconvenient. when debugging step out is a pain in the neck as I'm used to using my left hand alone to do this (Shift-11) as my right hand is on the mouse so i can inspect variables or whatever I need to do when debugging. I'm back on a compact keyboard - works for me. http://www.dhgate.com/product/new-dell-mini-1012-series-uk-black-keyboard/143650991.html?utm_source=plautm_medium=GMCutm_campaign=wisshenutm_term=143650991f=bm%7c143650991%7c104006-Keyboards-Mice-Input%7cGMC%7cAdwords%7cpla%7cwisshen%7cAU%7c104006007-LaptopReplacementKeyboards%7cc%7cgclid=CIvSya7F_rgCFcYipQodXjoAkA On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Corneliu I. Tusnea corne...@acorns.com.au wrote: Hi David, I'm a big fan of keyboards and I've tested heaps and heaps of them and I always go back to the ergonomic ones from Microsoft. I know you don't like them but I think they are very very good and once you get used you'll never want to go back. I'm currently using the Microsoft Natural 400 http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/natural-ergonomic-keyboard-4000 I have one at home and one at work and they rock. The split angle is small enough to allow easy use with one hand in the rare moments that I need to use a single hand and keep a hand on the mouse. The older ergonomic ones were having a higher angle making them impossible to use with one hand. I also looked at that new Manta Ray and I think I'll buy one. I like that the keypad is separate and I love the long delete key (my previous keyboard had that long delete and I enjoyed it. To make my life easier I always remap most of VS commands that I frequently use to use only the left hand with no need to use the right hand. - Alt+1 - Build Selected Project - Alt+2 - Find References (Resharper) - Alt+W - Highlight References - Alt+Q - Goto Definition and few more so you can keep a hand on the mouse and one on the keyboard :) I think no keyboard shortcut should ever need two hands. Whoever came up with the Ctrl+Shift+F12 shortcut and Ctrl+Shift+B? Have you tried to press Ctrl+Shift+B with one hand? My hand hurts just looking a the keyboard to try to figure out how to press that. On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 1:08 PM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Richards ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote: A bit off topic and a bit on topic. I've been in the market for a good developer keyboard for a while but never seem to find anything I like. I was just wondering if others on this list had found a decent keyboard. A few qualifying points: I don't want a number pad or at least I don't want one on the right of the keyboard. Not that I have anything against them, I just want my mouse to be closer. I've tested this using a cheap (and crappy) laptop like keyboard and there is a noticeable difference in comfort. I can just as easily by a separate number pad keyboard to position elsewhere. Or not at all. If you touchtype, they are almost unused. Funny I didn't realise this, I just picked up my somewhat used KB and held it to reflect light. Right. The numeric KB is still matte, the main KB numbers are shiny with wear. I would prefer the cursor keys and the other navigation keys to be in a reasonable location. My crappy keyboard as some of these along the bottom. It also sacrificed the right Control key in favour of a Scroll Lock key. Who uses scroll lock any more? What does it even do? I don't like those ergonomic keyboards that split the keyboard to be comfortable for two hands. I don't know about the rest of you but I spend at least as much time with one hand on the mouse and the other on the keyboard as I do with both hands on the keyboard. So the ergonomic aspects are actually a hindrance when typing with one hand. Disagree. Going back to flat KB's is a major pain now for me. I don't care about media buttons or any other specific use button. I never user them. They just make the keyboard bigger. 20% of the keys on my current keyboard will never be used. Agree, and get rid of the effing flock key and all the media shifts on the f keys. Obviously I want the keys to be comfortable to use 8 hours a day. Dude, at least 8. You likely use a KB another 4-8 when you get home. The recently announce keyboard from microsoft is fairly close to what I'm looking for:
Re: [OT] Developer keyboard
We have a Microsoft Natural 400 in the office. I don't like it. it doesn't fit my typing style. Apart from using my left hand for most of my typing, I suspect part of my problem with ergonomic keyboards is a bit of RSI in the first knuckle of my index fingers. I consequently don't use these for typing or on the mouse. I stopped a good 10 years ago (have been typing for at least 30 years). It's a bit strange since I was never a two finger typer. My guess is I used to hit keys harder with those fingers. I remember my C64 keys needing to be hit pretty hard. So my typing style isn't standard. On the topic of shortcuts, this is the mouse I use: http://www.cyborggaming.com/prod/mmo.htm The extra buttons are quite handy in that regard. And its a comfortable mouse to use. David If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... checkmate! -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama On 15 August 2013 13:33, Corneliu I. Tusnea corne...@acorns.com.au wrote: Hi David, I'm a big fan of keyboards and I've tested heaps and heaps of them and I always go back to the ergonomic ones from Microsoft. I know you don't like them but I think they are very very good and once you get used you'll never want to go back. I'm currently using the Microsoft Natural 400 http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/natural-ergonomic-keyboard-4000 I have one at home and one at work and they rock. The split angle is small enough to allow easy use with one hand in the rare moments that I need to use a single hand and keep a hand on the mouse. The older ergonomic ones were having a higher angle making them impossible to use with one hand. I also looked at that new Manta Ray and I think I'll buy one. I like that the keypad is separate and I love the long delete key (my previous keyboard had that long delete and I enjoyed it. To make my life easier I always remap most of VS commands that I frequently use to use only the left hand with no need to use the right hand. - Alt+1 - Build Selected Project - Alt+2 - Find References (Resharper) - Alt+W - Highlight References - Alt+Q - Goto Definition and few more so you can keep a hand on the mouse and one on the keyboard :) I think no keyboard shortcut should ever need two hands. Whoever came up with the Ctrl+Shift+F12 shortcut and Ctrl+Shift+B? Have you tried to press Ctrl+Shift+B with one hand? My hand hurts just looking a the keyboard to try to figure out how to press that. On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 1:08 PM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Richards ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote: A bit off topic and a bit on topic. I've been in the market for a good developer keyboard for a while but never seem to find anything I like. I was just wondering if others on this list had found a decent keyboard. A few qualifying points: I don't want a number pad or at least I don't want one on the right of the keyboard. Not that I have anything against them, I just want my mouse to be closer. I've tested this using a cheap (and crappy) laptop like keyboard and there is a noticeable difference in comfort. I can just as easily by a separate number pad keyboard to position elsewhere. Or not at all. If you touchtype, they are almost unused. Funny I didn't realise this, I just picked up my somewhat used KB and held it to reflect light. Right. The numeric KB is still matte, the main KB numbers are shiny with wear. I would prefer the cursor keys and the other navigation keys to be in a reasonable location. My crappy keyboard as some of these along the bottom. It also sacrificed the right Control key in favour of a Scroll Lock key. Who uses scroll lock any more? What does it even do? I don't like those ergonomic keyboards that split the keyboard to be comfortable for two hands. I don't know about the rest of you but I spend at least as much time with one hand on the mouse and the other on the keyboard as I do with both hands on the keyboard. So the ergonomic aspects are actually a hindrance when typing with one hand. Disagree. Going back to flat KB's is a major pain now for me. I don't care about media buttons or any other specific use button. I never user them. They just make the keyboard bigger. 20% of the keys on my current keyboard will never be used. Agree, and get rid of the effing flock key and all the media shifts on the f keys. Obviously I want the keys to be comfortable to use 8 hours a day. Dude, at least 8. You likely use a KB another 4-8 when you get home. The recently announce keyboard from microsoft is fairly close to what I'm looking for: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/08/microsofts-new-ergonomic-keyboard-is-just-plain-weird-looking/ But it's ergonomic style is a bit of a negative. Yes, and I'm going to call in at officeworks to buy one on the way home. Thank you! Re ergonomic. Try it for a while,
Re: [OT] Developer keyboard
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Corneliu I. Tusnea corne...@acorns.com.auwrote: Hi David, I'm a big fan of keyboards and I've tested heaps and heaps of them and I always go back to the ergonomic ones from Microsoft. I know you don't like them but I think they are very very good and once you get used you'll never want to go back. I'm currently using the Microsoft Natural 400 http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/natural-ergonomic-keyboard-4000 I have one at home and one at work and they rock. The split angle is small enough to allow easy use with one hand in the rare moments that I need to use a single hand and keep a hand on the mouse. The older ergonomic ones were having a higher angle making them impossible to use with one hand. I also looked at that new Manta Ray and I think I'll buy one. I like that the keypad is separate and I love the long delete key (my previous keyboard had that long delete and I enjoyed it. To make my life easier I always remap most of VS commands that I frequently use to use only the left hand with no need to use the right hand. - Alt+1 - Build Selected Project - Alt+2 - Find References (Resharper) - Alt+W - Highlight References - Alt+Q - Goto Definition and few more so you can keep a hand on the mouse and one on the keyboard :) I think no keyboard shortcut should ever need two hands. Whoever came up with the Ctrl+Shift+F12 shortcut and Ctrl+Shift+B? Have you tried to press Ctrl+Shift+B with one hand? My hand hurts just looking a the keyboard to try to figure out how to press that. +1 on this. How many of you play games? With definable keys? Now look at the key/mouse combos you're using day to day doing that, and you won't find Ctrl+Shift+B amongst them. Multiple modifiers are a pain. On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 1:08 PM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Richards ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote: A bit off topic and a bit on topic. I've been in the market for a good developer keyboard for a while but never seem to find anything I like. I was just wondering if others on this list had found a decent keyboard. A few qualifying points: I don't want a number pad or at least I don't want one on the right of the keyboard. Not that I have anything against them, I just want my mouse to be closer. I've tested this using a cheap (and crappy) laptop like keyboard and there is a noticeable difference in comfort. I can just as easily by a separate number pad keyboard to position elsewhere. Or not at all. If you touchtype, they are almost unused. Funny I didn't realise this, I just picked up my somewhat used KB and held it to reflect light. Right. The numeric KB is still matte, the main KB numbers are shiny with wear. I would prefer the cursor keys and the other navigation keys to be in a reasonable location. My crappy keyboard as some of these along the bottom. It also sacrificed the right Control key in favour of a Scroll Lock key. Who uses scroll lock any more? What does it even do? I don't like those ergonomic keyboards that split the keyboard to be comfortable for two hands. I don't know about the rest of you but I spend at least as much time with one hand on the mouse and the other on the keyboard as I do with both hands on the keyboard. So the ergonomic aspects are actually a hindrance when typing with one hand. Disagree. Going back to flat KB's is a major pain now for me. I don't care about media buttons or any other specific use button. I never user them. They just make the keyboard bigger. 20% of the keys on my current keyboard will never be used. Agree, and get rid of the effing flock key and all the media shifts on the f keys. Obviously I want the keys to be comfortable to use 8 hours a day. Dude, at least 8. You likely use a KB another 4-8 when you get home. The recently announce keyboard from microsoft is fairly close to what I'm looking for: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/08/microsofts-new-ergonomic-keyboard-is-just-plain-weird-looking/ David, did you find one of these in Australia? Amazon and costco in USA was all I could quickly see. But it's ergonomic style is a bit of a negative. Yes, and I'm going to call in at officeworks to buy one on the way home. Thank you! Re ergonomic. Try it for a while, you'll learn to love leaning your wrists on something. And likely hate the normal ones. I use one at home on the iMac - for such an ergonomic company Apple has awful keyboards and mice. -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
Re: [OT] Developer keyboard
I am a big fan of the das keyboard mechanical keyboards. I have 2, one for home, one for work. Slight preference for the older II series. On 15 Aug 2013 13:59, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote: You really ought to try a mechanical keyboard. They are more expensive but they are solid, well built, and will last you a lifetime if you look after them. My (non-touch) typing has improved by a factor of 2, and I was pretty fast before this. Look at Armor for a wireless one or SteelSeries for a wired one. On 15 August 2013 13:51, Wallace Turner wallace.tur...@gmail.com wrote: Do not accept that the ergonomic keyboard will make your life easier. I used one for well over a year before I realised I hated it. its too big, its inconvenient. when debugging step out is a pain in the neck as I'm used to using my left hand alone to do this (Shift-11) as my right hand is on the mouse so i can inspect variables or whatever I need to do when debugging. I'm back on a compact keyboard - works for me. http://www.dhgate.com/product/new-dell-mini-1012-series-uk-black-keyboard/143650991.html?utm_source=plautm_medium=GMCutm_campaign=wisshenutm_term=143650991f=bm%7c143650991%7c104006-Keyboards-Mice-Input%7cGMC%7cAdwords%7cpla%7cwisshen%7cAU%7c104006007-LaptopReplacementKeyboards%7cc%7cgclid=CIvSya7F_rgCFcYipQodXjoAkA On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Corneliu I. Tusnea corne...@acorns.com.au wrote: Hi David, I'm a big fan of keyboards and I've tested heaps and heaps of them and I always go back to the ergonomic ones from Microsoft. I know you don't like them but I think they are very very good and once you get used you'll never want to go back. I'm currently using the Microsoft Natural 400 http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/natural-ergonomic-keyboard-4000 I have one at home and one at work and they rock. The split angle is small enough to allow easy use with one hand in the rare moments that I need to use a single hand and keep a hand on the mouse. The older ergonomic ones were having a higher angle making them impossible to use with one hand. I also looked at that new Manta Ray and I think I'll buy one. I like that the keypad is separate and I love the long delete key (my previous keyboard had that long delete and I enjoyed it. To make my life easier I always remap most of VS commands that I frequently use to use only the left hand with no need to use the right hand. - Alt+1 - Build Selected Project - Alt+2 - Find References (Resharper) - Alt+W - Highlight References - Alt+Q - Goto Definition and few more so you can keep a hand on the mouse and one on the keyboard :) I think no keyboard shortcut should ever need two hands. Whoever came up with the Ctrl+Shift+F12 shortcut and Ctrl+Shift+B? Have you tried to press Ctrl+Shift+B with one hand? My hand hurts just looking a the keyboard to try to figure out how to press that. On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 1:08 PM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Richards ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote: A bit off topic and a bit on topic. I've been in the market for a good developer keyboard for a while but never seem to find anything I like. I was just wondering if others on this list had found a decent keyboard. A few qualifying points: I don't want a number pad or at least I don't want one on the right of the keyboard. Not that I have anything against them, I just want my mouse to be closer. I've tested this using a cheap (and crappy) laptop like keyboard and there is a noticeable difference in comfort. I can just as easily by a separate number pad keyboard to position elsewhere. Or not at all. If you touchtype, they are almost unused. Funny I didn't realise this, I just picked up my somewhat used KB and held it to reflect light. Right. The numeric KB is still matte, the main KB numbers are shiny with wear. I would prefer the cursor keys and the other navigation keys to be in a reasonable location. My crappy keyboard as some of these along the bottom. It also sacrificed the right Control key in favour of a Scroll Lock key. Who uses scroll lock any more? What does it even do? I don't like those ergonomic keyboards that split the keyboard to be comfortable for two hands. I don't know about the rest of you but I spend at least as much time with one hand on the mouse and the other on the keyboard as I do with both hands on the keyboard. So the ergonomic aspects are actually a hindrance when typing with one hand. Disagree. Going back to flat KB's is a major pain now for me. I don't care about media buttons or any other specific use button. I never user them. They just make the keyboard bigger. 20% of the keys on my current keyboard will never be used. Agree, and get rid of the effing flock key and all the media shifts on the f keys. Obviously I want the keys to be comfortable to use 8 hours a day. Dude, at
Re: [OT] Developer keyboard
That compact keyboard looks pretty good. Although it looks like a replacement for a laptop rather than a separate keyboard. There are no wasted keys and the keys it has seem at least mostly in the right places. Something like that with nice keys would be good. I've yet to find one though. The ones I've seen always try to make them like laptop keys. David If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... checkmate! -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama On 15 August 2013 13:51, Wallace Turner wallace.tur...@gmail.com wrote: Do not accept that the ergonomic keyboard will make your life easier. I used one for well over a year before I realised I hated it. its too big, its inconvenient. when debugging step out is a pain in the neck as I'm used to using my left hand alone to do this (Shift-11) as my right hand is on the mouse so i can inspect variables or whatever I need to do when debugging. I'm back on a compact keyboard - works for me. http://www.dhgate.com/product/new-dell-mini-1012-series-uk-black-keyboard/143650991.html?utm_source=plautm_medium=GMCutm_campaign=wisshenutm_term=143650991f=bm%7c143650991%7c104006-Keyboards-Mice-Input%7cGMC%7cAdwords%7cpla%7cwisshen%7cAU%7c104006007-LaptopReplacementKeyboards%7cc%7cgclid=CIvSya7F_rgCFcYipQodXjoAkA On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Corneliu I. Tusnea corne...@acorns.com.au wrote: Hi David, I'm a big fan of keyboards and I've tested heaps and heaps of them and I always go back to the ergonomic ones from Microsoft. I know you don't like them but I think they are very very good and once you get used you'll never want to go back. I'm currently using the Microsoft Natural 400 http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/natural-ergonomic-keyboard-4000 I have one at home and one at work and they rock. The split angle is small enough to allow easy use with one hand in the rare moments that I need to use a single hand and keep a hand on the mouse. The older ergonomic ones were having a higher angle making them impossible to use with one hand. I also looked at that new Manta Ray and I think I'll buy one. I like that the keypad is separate and I love the long delete key (my previous keyboard had that long delete and I enjoyed it. To make my life easier I always remap most of VS commands that I frequently use to use only the left hand with no need to use the right hand. - Alt+1 - Build Selected Project - Alt+2 - Find References (Resharper) - Alt+W - Highlight References - Alt+Q - Goto Definition and few more so you can keep a hand on the mouse and one on the keyboard :) I think no keyboard shortcut should ever need two hands. Whoever came up with the Ctrl+Shift+F12 shortcut and Ctrl+Shift+B? Have you tried to press Ctrl+Shift+B with one hand? My hand hurts just looking a the keyboard to try to figure out how to press that. On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 1:08 PM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Richards ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote: A bit off topic and a bit on topic. I've been in the market for a good developer keyboard for a while but never seem to find anything I like. I was just wondering if others on this list had found a decent keyboard. A few qualifying points: I don't want a number pad or at least I don't want one on the right of the keyboard. Not that I have anything against them, I just want my mouse to be closer. I've tested this using a cheap (and crappy) laptop like keyboard and there is a noticeable difference in comfort. I can just as easily by a separate number pad keyboard to position elsewhere. Or not at all. If you touchtype, they are almost unused. Funny I didn't realise this, I just picked up my somewhat used KB and held it to reflect light. Right. The numeric KB is still matte, the main KB numbers are shiny with wear. I would prefer the cursor keys and the other navigation keys to be in a reasonable location. My crappy keyboard as some of these along the bottom. It also sacrificed the right Control key in favour of a Scroll Lock key. Who uses scroll lock any more? What does it even do? I don't like those ergonomic keyboards that split the keyboard to be comfortable for two hands. I don't know about the rest of you but I spend at least as much time with one hand on the mouse and the other on the keyboard as I do with both hands on the keyboard. So the ergonomic aspects are actually a hindrance when typing with one hand. Disagree. Going back to flat KB's is a major pain now for me. I don't care about media buttons or any other specific use button. I never user them. They just make the keyboard bigger. 20% of the keys on my current keyboard will never be used. Agree, and get rid of the effing flock key and all the media shifts on the f keys. Obviously I want the keys to be comfortable to use 8 hours a day. Dude, at least 8. You likely use a KB
RE: [OT] Developer keyboard
Hi Grant, Which SteelSeries ones do you like? Regards, Greg Dr Greg Low 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax SQL Down Under | Web: http://www.sqldownunder.com/ www.sqldownunder.com From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Grant Maw Sent: Thursday, 15 August 2013 2:00 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: [OT] Developer keyboard You really ought to try a mechanical keyboard. They are more expensive but they are solid, well built, and will last you a lifetime if you look after them. My (non-touch) typing has improved by a factor of 2, and I was pretty fast before this. Look at Armor for a wireless one or SteelSeries for a wired one. On 15 August 2013 13:51, Wallace Turner wallace.tur...@gmail.com mailto:wallace.tur...@gmail.com wrote: Do not accept that the ergonomic keyboard will make your life easier. I used one for well over a year before I realised I hated it. its too big, its inconvenient. when debugging step out is a pain in the neck as I'm used to using my left hand alone to do this (Shift-11) as my right hand is on the mouse so i can inspect variables or whatever I need to do when debugging. I'm back on a compact keyboard - works for me. http://www.dhgate.com/product/new-dell-mini-1012-series-uk-black-keyboard/14 3650991.html?utm_source=pla http://www.dhgate.com/product/new-dell-mini-1012-series-uk-black-keyboard/1 43650991.html?utm_source=plautm_medium=GMCutm_campaign=wisshenutm_term=14 3650991f=bm%7c143650991%7c104006-Keyboards-Mice-Input%7cGMC%7cAdwords%7cpla %7cwisshen%7cAU%7c104006007-LaptopReplacementKeyboards%7cc%7cgclid=CIvSya7F _rgCFcYipQodXjoAkA utm_medium=GMCutm_campaign=wisshenutm_term=143650991f=bm%7c143650991%7c1 04006-Keyboards-Mice-Input%7cGMC%7cAdwords%7cpla%7cwisshen%7cAU%7c104006007- LaptopReplacementKeyboards%7cc%7cgclid=CIvSya7F_rgCFcYipQodXjoAkA On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Corneliu I. Tusnea corne...@acorns.com.au mailto:corne...@acorns.com.au wrote: Hi David, I'm a big fan of keyboards and I've tested heaps and heaps of them and I always go back to the ergonomic ones from Microsoft. I know you don't like them but I think they are very very good and once you get used you'll never want to go back. I'm currently using the Microsoft Natural 400 http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/natural-ergonomic-keyboard-4000 I have one at home and one at work and they rock. The split angle is small enough to allow easy use with one hand in the rare moments that I need to use a single hand and keep a hand on the mouse. The older ergonomic ones were having a higher angle making them impossible to use with one hand. I also looked at that new Manta Ray and I think I'll buy one. I like that the keypad is separate and I love the long delete key (my previous keyboard had that long delete and I enjoyed it. To make my life easier I always remap most of VS commands that I frequently use to use only the left hand with no need to use the right hand. - Alt+1 - Build Selected Project - Alt+2 - Find References (Resharper) - Alt+W - Highlight References - Alt+Q - Goto Definition and few more so you can keep a hand on the mouse and one on the keyboard :) I think no keyboard shortcut should ever need two hands. Whoever came up with the Ctrl+Shift+F12 shortcut and Ctrl+Shift+B? Have you tried to press Ctrl+Shift+B with one hand? My hand hurts just looking a the keyboard to try to figure out how to press that. On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 1:08 PM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com mailto:meski...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Richards ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com mailto:ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote: A bit off topic and a bit on topic. I've been in the market for a good developer keyboard for a while but never seem to find anything I like. I was just wondering if others on this list had found a decent keyboard. A few qualifying points: I don't want a number pad or at least I don't want one on the right of the keyboard. Not that I have anything against them, I just want my mouse to be closer. I've tested this using a cheap (and crappy) laptop like keyboard and there is a noticeable difference in comfort. I can just as easily by a separate number pad keyboard to position elsewhere. Or not at all. If you touchtype, they are almost unused. Funny I didn't realise this, I just picked up my somewhat used KB and held it to reflect light. Right. The numeric KB is still matte, the main KB numbers are shiny with wear. I would prefer the cursor keys and the other navigation keys to be in a reasonable location. My crappy keyboard as some of these along the bottom. It also sacrificed the right Control key in favour of a Scroll Lock key. Who uses scroll lock any more? What does it even do? I don't like those ergonomic keyboards that split the keyboard to be comfortable for
Re: [OT] Developer keyboard
das keyboard mechanical keyboards http://www.daskeyboard.com/product/model-s-ultimate/ these are especially fun when you want to check you got a password correct :) For fun, I would like to see them remove the F1 key from this model (useless help) and the scroll lock key, (sry teracopy)
Re: [OT] Developer keyboard
Mike, I saw it on arstechnica. I didn't think it was even out yet. If it wasn't ergonomic, I'd get it as soon as it was available. David If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... checkmate! -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama On 15 August 2013 14:05, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote: The recently announce keyboard from microsoft is fairly close to what I'm looking for: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/08/microsofts-new-ergonomic-keyboard-is-just-plain-weird-looking/ David, did you find one of these in Australia? Amazon and costco in USA was all I could quickly see.
Re: [OT] Developer keyboard
I had a mechanical keyboard many years ago and from memory, it required a harder tap on the keys. Plus it was noisy. Unless they have changed in recent years (which is likely) I'd be worried about it slowing me down, requiring harder tapping or just generally being annoying in the office. I might have to see if there is a demo unit in a shop somewhere. Still, they all seem to have a number pad which I want to avoid. David If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... checkmate! -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama On 15 August 2013 14:14, Wallace Turner wallace.tur...@gmail.com wrote: das keyboard mechanical keyboards http://www.daskeyboard.com/product/model-s-ultimate/ these are especially fun when you want to check you got a password correct :) For fun, I would like to see them remove the F1 key from this model (useless help) and the scroll lock key, (sry teracopy)
