subject:"Re\: \[OT\] Developer keyboard"

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-29 Thread mike smith

On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 5:31 PM, Nathan Chere nathan.ch...@saiglobal.comwrote:

  **Ø  **What's the real benefit to wireless keyboards?

 ** **

 **1)  **You haven’t seen my desk at work. Once you get to a certain
 point, every additional wire increases clutter O(C^n).


Gritting your teeth helps here.

 

 **2)  **For my main music workstation at home, the tower is far
 enough from the keyboard/mouse area that I can’t route the cabling cleanly
 without cutting holes in my desk or running the wires around the front. I
 tried USB extension leads but the 3-4 I tried had a tendency to stop
 responding intermittently or come unplugged too easily.

 **3)  **If you want the keyboard and mouse out of the way (eg you’re
 using a graphics tablet or perhaps not using the computer at all, just want
 the desk space for old fashioned pen on paper brainstorming) it’s much more
 convenient to pop them both in a drawer than finding somewhere to stick
 them subject to the usable reach of the cable (see: beginning of clutter).
 

 ** **

 That’s my main three, and aside from more practical concerns it just looks
 cleaner. 

 **


SO what you'd really like would be a wireless monitor.  Because 2 applies
just as much here.  This is where I like Apple's Thunderbolt cabling.  Its
one wire that daisychains any desk item, and it's a really thin cable
(compared to standard monitor cables)


  **

 My main concern with a backlit wireless keyboard would be battery life but
 after having a wireless keyboard at home I wouldn’t use anything else
 there. At work the laptop is on the desk so cable reach is not such an
 issue but clutter still is. I only use a wired keyboard there because there
 isn’t exactly an abundance of mechanical tenkey-less wireless keyboards to
 choose from.

 **


The Apple KB would be good here, but its got hopeless keys.  But its
wireless and very small (that's another complaint)


 **

 (PS: FWIW ever since ball mice went the way of the dodo I’ve never had a
 mouse cable wear out on me before the buttons or optical/laser/etc sensor).


Razers seem to wear the cable out before the buttons or sensors.  IIRC they
are available as spares.   Oh, and the teflon pads wear fast.  (or you
brick them by using the wrong OS  to update the firmware (x64 instead of
x86 cry))


 

 ** **

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *mike smith
 *Sent:* Wednesday, 28 August 2013 4:26 PM

 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

 ** **

 On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Nathan Chere nathan.ch...@saiglobal.com
 wrote:

  If it was wireless and had an option for other keys (eg Cherry blue) it
 would be near perfect.

 Or at least if not wireless, have a built-in USB hub… but would definitely
 prefer wireless. 

  ** **

 What's the real benefit to wireless keyboards?  Mice I understand, but you
 just don't have a need to move a keyboard.  Mine is wireless, but the
 wireless point for it is an inch or so from the keyboard.  Unless you're
 worried about electric shock during a thunderstorm...

 ** **

 Mice, OTOH, the need is that the mouse cable wears out near the entry into
 the mouse. 

  

   

 As it stands it really isn’t bringing anything overly compelling to the
 table which isn’t already done elsewhere. The dip switch behaviour is nice
 but still not enough of a selling point to make me choose that over the
 many alternatives.

  

  ** **

 Reading it, this keyboard is backlit, but doesn't allow for changing
 layout electronically.  I've seen some that consist of led/lcd keybacks
 that do though. 

   

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *David Richards
 *Sent:* Wednesday, 28 August 2013 3:06 PM


 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

  

 Greetings all,

  

 I don't mean to resurrect this thread (especially since I already have my
 new keyboard) but I just saw this post which was an interesting coincidence:
 

  

 http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2013/08/the-code-keyboard.html

  

 Thought some of you might be interested.


 

 David

 If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
  will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
  -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

  

 On 21 August 2013 16:56, Stephen Price step...@perthprojects.com wrote:*
 ***

 Careful looking/listening to things on YouTube. Last week a guy here at
 work was freaking out about the back light leakage on these fancy new IPS
 screens. 

 I never noticed it, but when I took a photo of it with my phone camera the
 backlight was quite noticeable. I guess the camera takes in lots of light
 causing a kind of over exposure in the photo... It looks no where near how
 bad the photos posted online (or that I took) make the screen look. Its
 only noticeable in a dark room when

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-28 Thread mike smith

On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Nathan Chere nathan.ch...@saiglobal.comwrote:

  If it was wireless and had an option for other keys (eg Cherry blue) it
 would be near perfect.

 Or at least if not wireless, have a built-in USB hub… but would definitely
 prefer wireless. 

 **


What's the real benefit to wireless keyboards?  Mice I understand, but you
just don't have a need to move a keyboard.  Mine is wireless, but the
wireless point for it is an inch or so from the keyboard.  Unless you're
worried about electric shock during a thunderstorm...

Mice, OTOH, the need is that the mouse cable wears out near the entry into
the mouse.


  **

 As it stands it really isn’t bringing anything overly compelling to the
 table which isn’t already done elsewhere. The dip switch behaviour is nice
 but still not enough of a selling point to make me choose that over the
 many alternatives.

 **


Reading it, this keyboard is backlit, but doesn't allow for changing layout
electronically.  I've seen some that consist of led/lcd keybacks that do
though.

 **

 ** **

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *David Richards
 *Sent:* Wednesday, 28 August 2013 3:06 PM

 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

 ** **

 Greetings all,

 ** **

 I don't mean to resurrect this thread (especially since I already have my
 new keyboard) but I just saw this post which was an interesting coincidence:
 

 ** **

 http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2013/08/the-code-keyboard.html

 ** **

 Thought some of you might be interested.


 

 David

 If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
  will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
  -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

 ** **

 On 21 August 2013 16:56, Stephen Price step...@perthprojects.com wrote:*
 ***

 Careful looking/listening to things on YouTube. Last week a guy here at
 work was freaking out about the back light leakage on these fancy new IPS
 screens. 

 I never noticed it, but when I took a photo of it with my phone camera the
 backlight was quite noticeable. I guess the camera takes in lots of light
 causing a kind of over exposure in the photo... It looks no where near how
 bad the photos posted online (or that I took) make the screen look. Its
 only noticeable in a dark room when looking at an all black screen (and
 even then to your naked eye its fine, but the photo looks like a brightly
 lit screen). 

 ** **

 He bought one anyway :)

 ** **

 On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 1:46 PM, David Richards 
 ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote:

 It's louder than the Microsoft Digital Media Keyboard 1.0a I was using
 before.  It sounds very similar to that video.  It's a bit hard to tell if
 its louder or not since it kind of depended on how loud I set the volume :)
  But if it has the same switches its probably the same.  It's much quieter
 than a clicky one I had some time ago.  I think it actually depends on
 your typing style.  If I'm careful and don't bottom out the keys it's much
 quieter.  I think it would take a bit if practice to do that normally.


 

 David

 If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
  will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
  -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

 ** **

 On 21 August 2013 14:55, Peter Gfader pe...@gfader.com wrote:

 Nice keyboard!

 How loud is it?

 ** **

 I bought the daskeyboard ultimate silent and I am not so happy with it.
 

 I got the silent one, but it is still too loud. I use it at home where no
 one else sits in my home office, but doing remote pairing or calls is not a
 nice experience...

 ** **

 Here how loud that silent keyboard is
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTrj9QMonts 

 ** **

.peter.gfader. (current mood = warm sun makes my heart jump and puts a
 smile on my face)

http://blog.gfader.com

 ** **

 ** **

 On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 6:26 AM, David Richards 
 ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote:

 I got it from mighty ape on sale but I'm pretty sure I saw it for similar
 prices elsewhere.  The link below is for a cyborg branded one which is the
 same thing.  mad catz own the cyborg brand.

 ** **

 http://www.mightyape.com.au/product/Cyborg-MMO7-Gaming-Mouse/19700928/


 

 David

 If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
  will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
  -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

 ** **

 On 21 August 2013 14:19, Stephen Price step...@perthprojects.com wrote:*
 ***

 Where did you buy the mouse from? Looking about on my normal online
 stores, can't find that particular model.

 ** **

 cheers,

 Stephen

 ** **

  ** **

** **

 ** **

 ** **

 ** **

 ** **

 Click here https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/MZbqvYs5QwJvpeaetUwhCQ== to
 report this email as spam.


 This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com




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Meski

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RE: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-28 Thread Nathan Chere

Ø  What's the real benefit to wireless keyboards?


1)  You haven’t seen my desk at work. Once you get to a certain point, 
every additional wire increases clutter O(C^n).

2)  For my main music workstation at home, the tower is far enough from the 
keyboard/mouse area that I can’t route the cabling cleanly without cutting 
holes in my desk or running the wires around the front. I tried USB extension 
leads but the 3-4 I tried had a tendency to stop responding intermittently or 
come unplugged too easily.

3)  If you want the keyboard and mouse out of the way (eg you’re using a 
graphics tablet or perhaps not using the computer at all, just want the desk 
space for old fashioned pen on paper brainstorming) it’s much more convenient 
to pop them both in a drawer than finding somewhere to stick them subject to 
the usable reach of the cable (see: beginning of clutter).

That’s my main three, and aside from more practical concerns it just looks 
cleaner.

My main concern with a backlit wireless keyboard would be battery life but 
after having a wireless keyboard at home I wouldn’t use anything else there. At 
work the laptop is on the desk so cable reach is not such an issue but clutter 
still is. I only use a wired keyboard there because there isn’t exactly an 
abundance of mechanical tenkey-less wireless keyboards to choose from.

(PS: FWIW ever since ball mice went the way of the dodo I’ve never had a mouse 
cable wear out on me before the buttons or optical/laser/etc sensor).

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of mike smith
Sent: Wednesday, 28 August 2013 4:26 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Nathan Chere 
nathan.ch...@saiglobal.commailto:nathan.ch...@saiglobal.com wrote:
If it was wireless and had an option for other keys (eg Cherry blue) it would 
be near perfect.
Or at least if not wireless, have a built-in USB hub… but would definitely 
prefer wireless.

What's the real benefit to wireless keyboards?  Mice I understand, but you just 
don't have a need to move a keyboard.  Mine is wireless, but the wireless point 
for it is an inch or so from the keyboard.  Unless you're worried about 
electric shock during a thunderstorm...

Mice, OTOH, the need is that the mouse cable wears out near the entry into the 
mouse.


As it stands it really isn’t bringing anything overly compelling to the table 
which isn’t already done elsewhere. The dip switch behaviour is nice but still 
not enough of a selling point to make me choose that over the many alternatives.


Reading it, this keyboard is backlit, but doesn't allow for changing layout 
electronically.  I've seen some that consist of led/lcd keybacks that do though.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Richards
Sent: Wednesday, 28 August 2013 3:06 PM

To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

Greetings all,

I don't mean to resurrect this thread (especially since I already have my new 
keyboard) but I just saw this post which was an interesting coincidence:

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2013/08/the-code-keyboard.html

Thought some of you might be interested.

David

If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

On 21 August 2013 16:56, Stephen Price 
step...@perthprojects.commailto:step...@perthprojects.com wrote:
Careful looking/listening to things on YouTube. Last week a guy here at work 
was freaking out about the back light leakage on these fancy new IPS screens.
I never noticed it, but when I took a photo of it with my phone camera the 
backlight was quite noticeable. I guess the camera takes in lots of light 
causing a kind of over exposure in the photo... It looks no where near how bad 
the photos posted online (or that I took) make the screen look. Its only 
noticeable in a dark room when looking at an all black screen (and even then to 
your naked eye its fine, but the photo looks like a brightly lit screen).

He bought one anyway :)

On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 1:46 PM, David Richards 
ausdot...@davidsuniverse.commailto:ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote:
It's louder than the Microsoft Digital Media Keyboard 1.0a I was using 
before.  It sounds very similar to that video.  It's a bit hard to tell if its 
louder or not since it kind of depended on how loud I set the volume :)  But if 
it has the same switches its probably the same.  It's much quieter than a 
clicky one I had some time ago.  I think it actually depends on your typing 
style.  If I'm careful and don't bottom out the keys it's much quieter.  I 
think it would take a bit if practice to do that normally.

David

If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

On 21 August 2013

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-27 Thread David Richards

Greetings all,

I don't mean to resurrect this thread (especially since I already have my
new keyboard) but I just saw this post which was an interesting coincidence:

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2013/08/the-code-keyboard.html

Thought some of you might be interested.

David

If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama


On 21 August 2013 16:56, Stephen Price step...@perthprojects.com wrote:

 Careful looking/listening to things on YouTube. Last week a guy here at
 work was freaking out about the back light leakage on these fancy new IPS
 screens.
 I never noticed it, but when I took a photo of it with my phone camera the
 backlight was quite noticeable. I guess the camera takes in lots of light
 causing a kind of over exposure in the photo... It looks no where near how
 bad the photos posted online (or that I took) make the screen look. Its
 only noticeable in a dark room when looking at an all black screen (and
 even then to your naked eye its fine, but the photo looks like a brightly
 lit screen).

 He bought one anyway :)


 On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 1:46 PM, David Richards 
 ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote:

 It's louder than the Microsoft Digital Media Keyboard 1.0a I was using
 before.  It sounds very similar to that video.  It's a bit hard to tell if
 its louder or not since it kind of depended on how loud I set the volume :)
  But if it has the same switches its probably the same.  It's much quieter
 than a clicky one I had some time ago.  I think it actually depends on
 your typing style.  If I'm careful and don't bottom out the keys it's much
 quieter.  I think it would take a bit if practice to do that normally.

 David

 If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
  will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
  -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama


 On 21 August 2013 14:55, Peter Gfader pe...@gfader.com wrote:

 Nice keyboard!
 How loud is it?

 I bought the daskeyboard ultimate silent and I am not so happy with
 it.
 I got the silent one, but it is still too loud. I use it at home where
 no one else sits in my home office, but doing remote pairing or calls is
 not a nice experience...

 Here how loud that silent keyboard is
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTrj9QMonts

.peter.gfader. (current mood = warm sun makes my heart jump and puts
 a smile on my face)
http://blog.gfader.com



 On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 6:26 AM, David Richards 
 ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote:

 I got it from mighty ape on sale but I'm pretty sure I saw it for
 similar prices elsewhere.  The link below is for a cyborg branded one which
 is the same thing.  mad catz own the cyborg brand.

 http://www.mightyape.com.au/product/Cyborg-MMO7-Gaming-Mouse/19700928/

 David

 If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
  will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
  -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama


 On 21 August 2013 14:19, Stephen Price step...@perthprojects.comwrote:

 Where did you buy the mouse from? Looking about on my normal online
 stores, can't find that particular model.

 cheers,
 Stephen

RE: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-27 Thread Nathan Chere

If it was wireless and had an option for other keys (eg Cherry blue) it would 
be near perfect.
Or at least if not wireless, have a built-in USB hub... but would definitely 
prefer wireless.

As it stands it really isn't bringing anything overly compelling to the table 
which isn't already done elsewhere. The dip switch behaviour is nice but still 
not enough of a selling point to make me choose that over the many alternatives.


From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Richards
Sent: Wednesday, 28 August 2013 3:06 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

Greetings all,

I don't mean to resurrect this thread (especially since I already have my new 
keyboard) but I just saw this post which was an interesting coincidence:

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2013/08/the-code-keyboard.html

Thought some of you might be interested.

David

If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

On 21 August 2013 16:56, Stephen Price 
step...@perthprojects.commailto:step...@perthprojects.com wrote:
Careful looking/listening to things on YouTube. Last week a guy here at work 
was freaking out about the back light leakage on these fancy new IPS screens.
I never noticed it, but when I took a photo of it with my phone camera the 
backlight was quite noticeable. I guess the camera takes in lots of light 
causing a kind of over exposure in the photo... It looks no where near how bad 
the photos posted online (or that I took) make the screen look. Its only 
noticeable in a dark room when looking at an all black screen (and even then to 
your naked eye its fine, but the photo looks like a brightly lit screen).

He bought one anyway :)

On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 1:46 PM, David Richards 
ausdot...@davidsuniverse.commailto:ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote:
It's louder than the Microsoft Digital Media Keyboard 1.0a I was using 
before.  It sounds very similar to that video.  It's a bit hard to tell if its 
louder or not since it kind of depended on how loud I set the volume :)  But if 
it has the same switches its probably the same.  It's much quieter than a 
clicky one I had some time ago.  I think it actually depends on your typing 
style.  If I'm careful and don't bottom out the keys it's much quieter.  I 
think it would take a bit if practice to do that normally.

David

If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

On 21 August 2013 14:55, Peter Gfader 
pe...@gfader.commailto:pe...@gfader.com wrote:
Nice keyboard!
How loud is it?

I bought the daskeyboard ultimate silent and I am not so happy with it.
I got the silent one, but it is still too loud. I use it at home where no one 
else sits in my home office, but doing remote pairing or calls is not a nice 
experience...

Here how loud that silent keyboard is 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTrj9QMonts

   .peter.gfader. (current mood = warm sun makes my heart jump and puts a smile 
on my face)
   http://blog.gfader.com


On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 6:26 AM, David Richards 
ausdot...@davidsuniverse.commailto:ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote:
I got it from mighty ape on sale but I'm pretty sure I saw it for similar 
prices elsewhere.  The link below is for a cyborg branded one which is the same 
thing.  mad catz own the cyborg brand.

http://www.mightyape.com.au/product/Cyborg-MMO7-Gaming-Mouse/19700928/

David

If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

On 21 August 2013 14:19, Stephen Price 
step...@perthprojects.commailto:step...@perthprojects.com wrote:
Where did you buy the mouse from? Looking about on my normal online stores, 
can't find that particular model.

cheers,
Stephen








Click herehttps://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/MZbqvYs5QwJvpeaetUwhCQ== to report 
this email as spam.


This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-21 Thread Stephen Price

Careful looking/listening to things on YouTube. Last week a guy here at
work was freaking out about the back light leakage on these fancy new IPS
screens.
I never noticed it, but when I took a photo of it with my phone camera the
backlight was quite noticeable. I guess the camera takes in lots of light
causing a kind of over exposure in the photo... It looks no where near how
bad the photos posted online (or that I took) make the screen look. Its
only noticeable in a dark room when looking at an all black screen (and
even then to your naked eye its fine, but the photo looks like a brightly
lit screen).

He bought one anyway :)


On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 1:46 PM, David Richards 
ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote:

 It's louder than the Microsoft Digital Media Keyboard 1.0a I was using
 before.  It sounds very similar to that video.  It's a bit hard to tell if
 its louder or not since it kind of depended on how loud I set the volume :)
  But if it has the same switches its probably the same.  It's much quieter
 than a clicky one I had some time ago.  I think it actually depends on
 your typing style.  If I'm careful and don't bottom out the keys it's much
 quieter.  I think it would take a bit if practice to do that normally.

 David

 If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
  will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
  -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama


 On 21 August 2013 14:55, Peter Gfader pe...@gfader.com wrote:

 Nice keyboard!
 How loud is it?

 I bought the daskeyboard ultimate silent and I am not so happy with it.
 I got the silent one, but it is still too loud. I use it at home where no
 one else sits in my home office, but doing remote pairing or calls is not a
 nice experience...

 Here how loud that silent keyboard is
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTrj9QMonts

.peter.gfader. (current mood = warm sun makes my heart jump and puts a
 smile on my face)
http://blog.gfader.com



 On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 6:26 AM, David Richards 
 ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote:

 I got it from mighty ape on sale but I'm pretty sure I saw it for
 similar prices elsewhere.  The link below is for a cyborg branded one which
 is the same thing.  mad catz own the cyborg brand.

 http://www.mightyape.com.au/product/Cyborg-MMO7-Gaming-Mouse/19700928/

 David

 If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
  will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
  -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama


 On 21 August 2013 14:19, Stephen Price step...@perthprojects.comwrote:

 Where did you buy the mouse from? Looking about on my normal online
 stores, can't find that particular model.

 cheers,
 Stephen

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-20 Thread David Richards

Just an epilogue for those that are interested.  I've got my new mouse and
keyboard set up and have been using it for a couple of days.  The closer
mouse is much more comfortable and the keys on the new keyboard are very
nice to type on.  The separate wireless number pad is quite good too.  I'm
quite happy with the result (see attached image).

Keyboard is a filco ninja majestouch2 tenkeyless with brown switches. About
$170 with postage.
Mouse is a mad catz mmo 7, about $120.  There is a visual studio profile
available for the extra buttons although I reprogrammed most anyway.
Mouse pad is a mad cats glide 7, $50.  I have this at home.  It's very thin
and quite comfortable to use.
Number pad is a logitech n305, $35.  Hard to get but convenient and I think
makes sure I don't lose functionality with the new setup.  Apparently the
batteries will last 3 years.

Total price then was about $375.  Time will tell if it was a worthwhile
investment :)

Interesting side note.  As I've been using the new keyboard, every time I
reach for the cursor keys, my hand naturally goes to just right of the
space bar.  This is about where the cursor keys were on my previous
keyboard, relative to the right edge of the keyboard.  So it seems I
subconsciously use the right edge of the keyboard as my reference point.
 Previously, it never occurred to me how I could always go straight to the
correct keys without any tactile queue or looking at the keyboard.


 [image: Inline images 1]

David

If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama
KeyboardAndMouse.jpg

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-20 Thread Stephen Price

Slick looking mouse. *want*


On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 7:38 AM, David Richards 
ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote:

 Just an epilogue for those that are interested.  I've got my new mouse and
 keyboard set up and have been using it for a couple of days.  The closer
 mouse is much more comfortable and the keys on the new keyboard are very
 nice to type on.  The separate wireless number pad is quite good too.  I'm
 quite happy with the result (see attached image).

 Keyboard is a filco ninja majestouch2 tenkeyless with brown switches.
 About $170 with postage.
 Mouse is a mad catz mmo 7, about $120.  There is a visual studio profile
 available for the extra buttons although I reprogrammed most anyway.
 Mouse pad is a mad cats glide 7, $50.  I have this at home.  It's very
 thin and quite comfortable to use.
 Number pad is a logitech n305, $35.  Hard to get but convenient and I
 think makes sure I don't lose functionality with the new setup.  Apparently
 the batteries will last 3 years.

 Total price then was about $375.  Time will tell if it was a worthwhile
 investment :)

 Interesting side note.  As I've been using the new keyboard, every time I
 reach for the cursor keys, my hand naturally goes to just right of the
 space bar.  This is about where the cursor keys were on my previous
 keyboard, relative to the right edge of the keyboard.  So it seems I
 subconsciously use the right edge of the keyboard as my reference point.
  Previously, it never occurred to me how I could always go straight to the
 correct keys without any tactile queue or looking at the keyboard.


  [image: Inline images 1]


 David

 If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
  will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
  -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama


KeyboardAndMouse.jpg

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-20 Thread osjasonroberts

That mouse looks like some crazy borg-transformers love-child  Like the idea 
of programmable buttons though, any good for big-handed oafs like me?



Jason Roberts
Journeyman Software Developer

Twitter: @robertsjason
Blog: http://DontCodeTired.com
Pluralsight Courses: http://bit.ly/psjasonroberts



From: David Richards
Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎21‎ ‎August‎ ‎2013 ‎7‎:‎38‎ ‎AM
To: ozDotNet


Just an epilogue for those that are interested.  I've got my new mouse and 
keyboard set up and have been using it for a couple of days.  The closer mouse 
is much more comfortable and the keys on the new keyboard are very nice to type 
on.  The separate wireless number pad is quite good too.  I'm quite happy with 
the result (see attached image).



Keyboard is a filco ninja majestouch2 tenkeyless with brown switches. About 
$170 with postage.

Mouse is a mad catz mmo 7, about $120.  There is a visual studio profile 
available for the extra buttons although I reprogrammed most anyway.

Mouse pad is a mad cats glide 7, $50.  I have this at home.  It's very thin and 
quite comfortable to use.

Number pad is a logitech n305, $35.  Hard to get but convenient and I think 
makes sure I don't lose functionality with the new setup.  Apparently the 
batteries will last 3 years.




Total price then was about $375.  Time will tell if it was a worthwhile 
investment :)




Interesting side note.  As I've been using the new keyboard, every time I reach 
for the cursor keys, my hand naturally goes to just right of the space bar.  
This is about where the cursor keys were on my previous keyboard, relative to 
the right edge of the keyboard.  So it seems I subconsciously use the right 
edge of the keyboard as my reference point.  Previously, it never occurred to 
me how I could always go straight to the correct keys without any tactile queue 
or looking at the keyboard.






 Inline images 1



David

If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes 
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futuramainline: KeyboardAndMouse.jpg

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-20 Thread David Richards

Jason,

The mouse is adjustable.  The palm rest comes in two heights and can slide
in and out to suite.  The thumb part with the buttons can be adjusted
forwards and backwards.  The pinky rest can be removed.  There are other
models where the thumb part can also tilt outward but I read somewhere they
tend to get pushed in if you push the buttons too hard.  They also have
less buttons.  I have reasonably large hands and I find it quite
comfortable.  The only real criticism I would give it is that there's
nowhere to put your thumb when you want to pickup and move the mouse over.
 You have to carefully put your thumb between two buttons.  I was
accidentally pressing buttons a lot at first.  Not so much now though.

You can also add included weights to it if you want a heavier mouse but I
can't imagine why you would.


David

If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama


On 21 August 2013 12:36, osjasonrobe...@gmail.com wrote:

 That mouse looks like some crazy borg-transformers love-child  Like the
 idea of programmable buttons though, any good for big-handed oafs like me?

 Jason Roberts
 Journeyman Software Developer

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-20 Thread Stephen Price

A heavier mouse would help with your Right BICEP.


:)


On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 11:37 AM, David Richards 
ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote:

 Jason,

 The mouse is adjustable.  The palm rest comes in two heights and can slide
 in and out to suite.  The thumb part with the buttons can be adjusted
 forwards and backwards.  The pinky rest can be removed.  There are other
 models where the thumb part can also tilt outward but I read somewhere they
 tend to get pushed in if you push the buttons too hard.  They also have
 less buttons.  I have reasonably large hands and I find it quite
 comfortable.  The only real criticism I would give it is that there's
 nowhere to put your thumb when you want to pickup and move the mouse over.
  You have to carefully put your thumb between two buttons.  I was
 accidentally pressing buttons a lot at first.  Not so much now though.

 You can also add included weights to it if you want a heavier mouse but I
 can't imagine why you would.


 David

 If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
  will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
  -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama


 On 21 August 2013 12:36, osjasonrobe...@gmail.com wrote:

  That mouse looks like some crazy borg-transformers love-child  Like
 the idea of programmable buttons though, any good for big-handed oafs like
 me?

 Jason Roberts
 Journeyman Software Developer

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-20 Thread mike smith

It's the 'transformers' look.  It doubles as a backup drive.


On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 11:09 AM, Stephen Price
step...@perthprojects.comwrote:

 Slick looking mouse. *want*


 On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 7:38 AM, David Richards 
 ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote:

 Just an epilogue for those that are interested.  I've got my new mouse
 and keyboard set up and have been using it for a couple of days.  The
 closer mouse is much more comfortable and the keys on the new keyboard are
 very nice to type on.  The separate wireless number pad is quite good too.
  I'm quite happy with the result (see attached image).

 Keyboard is a filco ninja majestouch2 tenkeyless with brown switches.
 About $170 with postage.
 Mouse is a mad catz mmo 7, about $120.  There is a visual studio profile
 available for the extra buttons although I reprogrammed most anyway.
 Mouse pad is a mad cats glide 7, $50.  I have this at home.  It's very
 thin and quite comfortable to use.
 Number pad is a logitech n305, $35.  Hard to get but convenient and I
 think makes sure I don't lose functionality with the new setup.  Apparently
 the batteries will last 3 years.

 Total price then was about $375.  Time will tell if it was a worthwhile
 investment :)

 Interesting side note.  As I've been using the new keyboard, every time I
 reach for the cursor keys, my hand naturally goes to just right of the
 space bar.  This is about where the cursor keys were on my previous
 keyboard, relative to the right edge of the keyboard.  So it seems I
 subconsciously use the right edge of the keyboard as my reference point.
  Previously, it never occurred to me how I could always go straight to the
 correct keys without any tactile queue or looking at the keyboard.


  [image: Inline images 1]


 David

 If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
  will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
  -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama





-- 
Meski

 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv

Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure,
you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
KeyboardAndMouse.jpg

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-20 Thread osjasonroberts

Cool, thanks David 



Jason Roberts
Journeyman Software Developer

Twitter: @robertsjason
Blog: http://DontCodeTired.com
Pluralsight Courses: http://bit.ly/psjasonroberts



From: David Richards
Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎21‎ ‎August‎ ‎2013 ‎11‎:‎37‎ ‎AM
To: ozDotNet



Jason,




The mouse is adjustable.  The palm rest comes in two heights and can slide in 
and out to suite.  The thumb part with the buttons can be adjusted forwards and 
backwards.  The pinky rest can be removed.  There are other models where the 
thumb part can also tilt outward but I read somewhere they tend to get pushed 
in if you push the buttons too hard.  They also have less buttons.  I have 
reasonably large hands and I find it quite comfortable.  The only real 
criticism I would give it is that there's nowhere to put your thumb when you 
want to pickup and move the mouse over.  You have to carefully put your thumb 
between two buttons.  I was accidentally pressing buttons a lot at first.  Not 
so much now though.




You can also add included weights to it if you want a heavier mouse but I can't 
imagine why you would.




David

If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes 
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama




On 21 August 2013 12:36, osjasonrobe...@gmail.com wrote:




That mouse looks like some crazy borg-transformers love-child  Like the idea 
of programmable buttons though, any good for big-handed oafs like me?


 

Jason Roberts
Journeyman Software Developer

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-20 Thread Stephen Price

Where did you buy the mouse from? Looking about on my normal online stores,
can't find that particular model.

cheers,
Stephen


On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 11:57 AM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote:

 It's the 'transformers' look.  It doubles as a backup drive.


 On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 11:09 AM, Stephen Price step...@perthprojects.com
  wrote:

 Slick looking mouse. *want*


 On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 7:38 AM, David Richards 
 ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote:

 Just an epilogue for those that are interested.  I've got my new mouse
 and keyboard set up and have been using it for a couple of days.  The
 closer mouse is much more comfortable and the keys on the new keyboard are
 very nice to type on.  The separate wireless number pad is quite good too.
  I'm quite happy with the result (see attached image).

 Keyboard is a filco ninja majestouch2 tenkeyless with brown switches.
 About $170 with postage.
 Mouse is a mad catz mmo 7, about $120.  There is a visual studio profile
 available for the extra buttons although I reprogrammed most anyway.
 Mouse pad is a mad cats glide 7, $50.  I have this at home.  It's very
 thin and quite comfortable to use.
 Number pad is a logitech n305, $35.  Hard to get but convenient and I
 think makes sure I don't lose functionality with the new setup.  Apparently
 the batteries will last 3 years.

 Total price then was about $375.  Time will tell if it was a worthwhile
 investment :)

 Interesting side note.  As I've been using the new keyboard, every time
 I reach for the cursor keys, my hand naturally goes to just right of the
 space bar.  This is about where the cursor keys were on my previous
 keyboard, relative to the right edge of the keyboard.  So it seems I
 subconsciously use the right edge of the keyboard as my reference point.
  Previously, it never occurred to me how I could always go straight to the
 correct keys without any tactile queue or looking at the keyboard.


  [image: Inline images 1]


 David

 If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
  will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
  -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama





 --
 Meski

http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv

 Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure,
 you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills

KeyboardAndMouse.jpg

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-20 Thread David Richards

I got it from mighty ape on sale but I'm pretty sure I saw it for similar
prices elsewhere.  The link below is for a cyborg branded one which is the
same thing.  mad catz own the cyborg brand.

http://www.mightyape.com.au/product/Cyborg-MMO7-Gaming-Mouse/19700928/

David

If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama


On 21 August 2013 14:19, Stephen Price step...@perthprojects.com wrote:

 Where did you buy the mouse from? Looking about on my normal online
 stores, can't find that particular model.

 cheers,
 Stephen

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-20 Thread Peter Gfader

Nice keyboard!
How loud is it?

I bought the daskeyboard ultimate silent and I am not so happy with it.
I got the silent one, but it is still too loud. I use it at home where no
one else sits in my home office, but doing remote pairing or calls is not a
nice experience...

Here how loud that silent keyboard is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTrj9QMonts

   .peter.gfader. (current mood = warm sun makes my heart jump and puts a
smile on my face)
   http://blog.gfader.com



On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 6:26 AM, David Richards 
ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote:

 I got it from mighty ape on sale but I'm pretty sure I saw it for similar
 prices elsewhere.  The link below is for a cyborg branded one which is the
 same thing.  mad catz own the cyborg brand.

 http://www.mightyape.com.au/product/Cyborg-MMO7-Gaming-Mouse/19700928/

 David

 If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
  will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
  -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama


 On 21 August 2013 14:19, Stephen Price step...@perthprojects.com wrote:

 Where did you buy the mouse from? Looking about on my normal online
 stores, can't find that particular model.

 cheers,
 Stephen

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-20 Thread David Richards

It's louder than the Microsoft Digital Media Keyboard 1.0a I was using
before.  It sounds very similar to that video.  It's a bit hard to tell if
its louder or not since it kind of depended on how loud I set the volume :)
 But if it has the same switches its probably the same.  It's much quieter
than a clicky one I had some time ago.  I think it actually depends on
your typing style.  If I'm careful and don't bottom out the keys it's much
quieter.  I think it would take a bit if practice to do that normally.

David

If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama


On 21 August 2013 14:55, Peter Gfader pe...@gfader.com wrote:

 Nice keyboard!
 How loud is it?

 I bought the daskeyboard ultimate silent and I am not so happy with it.
 I got the silent one, but it is still too loud. I use it at home where no
 one else sits in my home office, but doing remote pairing or calls is not a
 nice experience...

 Here how loud that silent keyboard is
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTrj9QMonts

.peter.gfader. (current mood = warm sun makes my heart jump and puts a
 smile on my face)
http://blog.gfader.com



 On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 6:26 AM, David Richards 
 ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote:

 I got it from mighty ape on sale but I'm pretty sure I saw it for similar
 prices elsewhere.  The link below is for a cyborg branded one which is the
 same thing.  mad catz own the cyborg brand.

 http://www.mightyape.com.au/product/Cyborg-MMO7-Gaming-Mouse/19700928/

 David

 If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
  will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
  -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama


 On 21 August 2013 14:19, Stephen Price step...@perthprojects.com wrote:

 Where did you buy the mouse from? Looking about on my normal online
 stores, can't find that particular model.

 cheers,
 Stephen

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-18 Thread Grant Maw

Greg

Currently using the 7G

On 15 August 2013 14:11, Greg Low (Old POP Address) g...@greglow.comwrote:

Hi Grant,

** **

Which SteelSeries ones do you like?

** **

Regards,

** **

Greg

** **

Dr Greg Low

** **

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913fax

SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com

** **

*From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Grant Maw
*Sent:* Thursday, 15 August 2013 2:00 PM
*To:* ozDotNet
*Subject:* Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

** **

You really ought to try a mechanical keyboard. They are more expensive but
they are solid, well built, and will last you a lifetime if you look after
them. My (non-touch) typing has improved by a factor of 2, and I was pretty
fast before this. Look at Armor for a wireless one or SteelSeries for a
wired one.

** **

On 15 August 2013 13:51, Wallace Turner wallace.tur...@gmail.com wrote:*
***

Do not accept that the ergonomic keyboard will make your life easier. I
used one for well over a year before I realised I hated it. its too big,
its inconvenient. when debugging step out is a pain in the neck as I'm used
to using my left hand alone to do this (Shift-11) as my right hand is on
the mouse so i can inspect variables or whatever I need to do when
debugging.

** **

I'm back on a compact keyboard - works for me.

http://www.dhgate.com/product/new-dell-mini-1012-series-uk-black-keyboard/143650991.html?utm_source=plautm_medium=GMCutm_campaign=wisshenutm_term=143650991f=bm%7c143650991%7c104006-Keyboards-Mice-Input%7cGMC%7cAdwords%7cpla%7cwisshen%7cAU%7c104006007-LaptopReplacementKeyboards%7cc%7cgclid=CIvSya7F_rgCFcYipQodXjoAkA

** **

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Corneliu I. Tusnea
corne...@acorns.com.au wrote:

Hi David,

** **

I'm a big fan of keyboards and I've tested heaps and heaps of them and I
always go back to the ergonomic ones from Microsoft.

I know you don't like them but I think they are very very good and once
you get used you'll never want to go back.

** **

I'm currently using the Microsoft Natural 400

http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/natural-ergonomic-keyboard-4000*
***

** **

I have one at home and one at work and they rock. The split angle is small
enough to allow easy use with one hand in the rare moments that I need to
use a single hand and keep a hand on the mouse.

The older ergonomic ones were having a higher angle making them impossible
to use with one hand.

I also looked at that new Manta Ray and I think I'll buy one. I like that
the keypad is separate and I love the long delete key (my previous keyboard
had that long delete and I enjoyed it.

** **

To make my life easier I always remap most of VS commands that I
frequently use to use only the left hand with no need to use the right hand.

- Alt+1 - Build Selected Project

- Alt+2 - Find References (Resharper)

- Alt+W - Highlight References

- Alt+Q - Goto Definition

and few more so you can keep a hand on the mouse and one on the keyboard :)

** **

I think no keyboard shortcut should ever need two hands.

Whoever came up with the Ctrl+Shift+F12 shortcut and Ctrl+Shift+B?

Have you tried to press Ctrl+Shift+B with one hand? My hand hurts just
looking a the keyboard to try to figure out how to press that.

** **

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 1:08 PM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote:***
*

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Richards
ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote:

A bit off topic and a bit on topic. I've been in the market for a good
developer keyboard for a while but never seem to find anything I like. I
was just wondering if others on this list had found a decent keyboard.

** **

A few qualifying points:

** **

I don't want a number pad or at least I don't want one on the right of the
keyboard. Not that I have anything against them, I just want my mouse to
be closer. I've tested this using a cheap (and crappy) laptop like
keyboard and there is a noticeable difference in comfort. I can just as
easily by a separate number pad keyboard to position elsewhere.

** **

Or not at all. If you touchtype, they are almost unused. Funny I didn't
realise this, I just picked up my somewhat used KB and held it to reflect
light. Right. The numeric KB is still matte, the main KB numbers are
shiny with wear.

I would prefer the cursor keys and the other navigation keys to be in a
reasonable location. My crappy keyboard as some of these along the
bottom. It also sacrificed the right Control key in favour of a Scroll
Lock key. Who uses scroll lock any more?

** **

What does it even do?

I don't like those ergonomic keyboards that split the keyboard

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-15 Thread Thomas Koster

Hi list,

On 15 August 2013 12:46, David Richards ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com
 wrote:

 I actually get more discomfort from the mouse than I do from the keyboard.


Same here. I get a cramped mousehand when gaming sometimes. Time for a
break then.

On 15 August 2013 13:08, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote:

 Re ergonomic.  Try it for a while, you'll learn to love leaning your
 wrists on something.  And likely hate the normal ones.  I use one at home
 on the iMac - for such an ergonomic company Apple has awful keyboards and
 mice.


I often use three or more different keyboards during the day and posture
seems a much more significant factor to me on stress and strain than any
attribute of the keyboard itself. Opposite to Mike's experience, staying
mobile at the keyboard is the key for me, rather than leaning on anything.
This may be because coding needs much more than A-Z. The keyboard itself
doesn't matter except when typing quickly from muscle memory.

That said, personally, ergonomic is synonymous with uncomfortable
- keyboards, mice, chairs, car interiors, phones, toothbrushes, cutlery,
you name it - but I understand that it may fit others. Compact is as bad
for me as ergonomic. I don't have larger-than-average hands but larger
keyboards and larger mice especially are much more comfortable for me, as
well as large cutlery and steering wheels.

I'm still young, but I find that I type better and with less stress at any
keyboard by adopting a pianist's posture at the computer: back straight
(not leaning against the chair back), elbows in, wrists level (not leaning
on the desk or gel pad) and fingers curled so that my whole upper body is
relaxed and mobile from the seat to my fingers. Of course you don't need to
move from side to side nearly as much at the computer as you would when
performing at the piano, but if I let the brain subconsciously take care of
balance with micro-movements in the back, shoulders, elbows and wrists then
all upper body muscles will not tense whether I'm reaching as near as the
tab key or as far as the phone. I can't type efficiently with my shoulders
anchored to the chair back, let alone wrists anchored to the desk (although
I am guilty of adopting this slouched posture from time to time when
despondently mouse-wheeling through a forum full of garbage answers hidden
amongst the advertising).

You can also try standing at the keyboard, which I find surprisingly
comfortable (at proper height like on the kitchen bench of course).

--
Thomas

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-15 Thread les

Heya David,

I've tried and own many keyboards (bit of a junkie). I have a couple
of Microsoft Ergonomic ones, I've tried a few mechanical ones, and
I've also got a few weirdish ones (microsoft arc, kenesis freestyle
split keyboard (split down the middle as two x half keyboards)).

My favourite is by far the Filco Majestictouch Tenkeyless with the
Blue Cherry switches. It's a mechanical keyboard with Cherry switches,
and this particular keyboard has no keypad, or other junk buttons
(email/paint/etc) AusPCMarket sell them in Aus and provide pretty good
service.

I use the Filco probably 80% of the time, and a Microsoft Ergonomic
keyboard the other 20%. What I really disliked about the Ergonomic one
was the Keypad as well as I found that reaching for the mouse started
to become a problem. Given that, their new one looks interesting.

I also found the new keyboard on Amazon, but it looks like neither
they, or anyone else is shipping.

I'm currently in Manhattan returning to Australia on Thursday (leaving
Tuesday here time) and if anyone knows where I can buy the new MS
keyboard locally and wants one, I can probably pick a few up and bring
them back to Straya (one for myself too!).

Cheers,
--
Les Hughes
l...@datarev.com.au

Quoting David Richards ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com:

A few qualifying points:

I don't like those ergonomic keyboards that split the keyboard to be
comfortable for two hands. I don't know about the rest of you but I spend
at least as much time with one hand on the mouse and the other on the
keyboard as I do with both hands on the keyboard. So the ergonomic aspects
are actually a hindrance when typing with one hand.

I don't care about media buttons or any other specific use button. I never
user them. They just make the keyboard bigger. 20% of the keys on my
current keyboard will never be used.

Obviously I want the keys to be comfortable to use 8 hours a day.

The recently announce keyboard from microsoft is fairly close to what I'm
looking for:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/08/microsofts-new-ergonomic-keyboard-is-just-plain-weird-looking/

But it's ergonomic style is a bit of a negative.

Any thoughts?

David

If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
-Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-15 Thread David Richards

I've done some more searching.  I can't believe it never occurred to me to
include compact as a keyword when searching for these keyboards.  Has
anyone used either of these keyboards?

http://shopap.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/auweb/LenovoPortal/en_AU/integration.workflow:ProductDisplayItem?IsBundle=falseGroupID=460Code=0B47190sb=:01CC:4A46:hide_menu_area=yescid=au|cse|df|myshopping|101CA_6C15C=1924906834

or shortened: http://goo.gl/TXvTyx

Lenovo thinkpad compact I think its called.  It looks ok and has the right
layout.  Although it seems to have laptop style keys.  It also seems far
more expensive than it should be.

This one (logitech k340) still has the number pad so I'm not so sure:

http://www.logitech.com/en-sg/product/6007?crid=26

I grabbed one of these (logitech k230) for $23 from office works on the way
home last night.  Again it still has the number pad but it is more compact.

 http://www.logitech.com/en-au/product/wireless-keyboard-k230

It's not a great keyboard but my mouse is a little closer.  Worse case I'll
delegate it to a couch keyboard.

David

If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-15 Thread David Richards

Thanks Les, that looks pretty good. Going by reviews it might be exactly
what I'm looking for. Although I'd get the brown switches as I prefer not
to have any clicking sound. If the keys feel good to use I'll be happy.
And a place nearby sells them for $149. I think I'll go get one :)

David

If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
-Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

On 16 August 2013 09:48, l...@datarev.com.au wrote:

Heya David,

I've tried and own many keyboards (bit of a junkie). I have a couple of
Microsoft Ergonomic ones, I've tried a few mechanical ones, and I've also
got a few weirdish ones (microsoft arc, kenesis freestyle split keyboard
(split down the middle as two x half keyboards)).

My favourite is by far the Filco Majestictouch Tenkeyless with the Blue
Cherry switches. It's a mechanical keyboard with Cherry switches, and this
particular keyboard has no keypad, or other junk buttons (email/paint/etc)
AusPCMarket sell them in Aus and provide pretty good service.

I use the Filco probably 80% of the time, and a Microsoft Ergonomic
keyboard the other 20%. What I really disliked about the Ergonomic one was
the Keypad as well as I found that reaching for the mouse started to become
a problem. Given that, their new one looks interesting.

I also found the new keyboard on Amazon, but it looks like neither they,
or anyone else is shipping.

I'm currently in Manhattan returning to Australia on Thursday (leaving
Tuesday here time) and if anyone knows where I can buy the new MS keyboard
locally and wants one, I can probably pick a few up and bring them back to
Straya (one for myself too!).

Cheers,
--
Les Hughes
l...@datarev.com.au

Quoting David Richards ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com**:

A few qualifying points:

I don't like those ergonomic keyboards that split the keyboard to be
comfortable for two hands. I don't know about the rest of you but I spend
at least as much time with one hand on the mouse and the other on the
keyboard as I do with both hands on the keyboard. So the ergonomic
aspects
are actually a hindrance when typing with one hand.

I don't care about media buttons or any other specific use button. I
never
user them. They just make the keyboard bigger. 20% of the keys on my
current keyboard will never be used.

Obviously I want the keys to be comfortable to use 8 hours a day.

The recently announce keyboard from microsoft is fairly close to what I'm
looking for:

http://arstechnica.com/**gadgets/2013/08/microsofts-**
new-ergonomic-keyboard-is-**just-plain-weird-looking/http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/08/microsofts-new-ergonomic-keyboard-is-just-plain-weird-looking/

But it's ergonomic style is a bit of a negative.

Any thoughts?

David

If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
-Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-14 Thread Craig van Nieuwkerk

On a similar note, does anyone know where you can still get Microsoft
Digital Media Keyboard 1.0a. They are still my favourite but seem not to
be sold anymore. http://greengateway.home.pl/allegro//DSC_02411.JPG

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Richards
ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote:

A few qualifying points:

I don't care about media buttons or any other specific use button. I
never user them. They just make the keyboard bigger. 20% of the keys on
my current keyboard will never be used.

Obviously I want the keys to be comfortable to use 8 hours a day.

The recently announce keyboard from microsoft is fairly close to what I'm
looking for:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/08/microsofts-new-ergonomic-keyboard-is-just-plain-weird-looking/

But it's ergonomic style is a bit of a negative.

Any thoughts?

David

If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
-Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-14 Thread David Burstin

Who uses scroll lock any more?

Teracopy. Uses it as a flag to decide whether to use Windows or Teracopy as
the default copying mechanism.

Sent from my flux capacitor. Please excuse brevity and any odd autocorrect
errors.
On 15/08/2013 12:05 PM, David Richards ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com
wrote:

A few qualifying points:

I don't care about media buttons or any other specific use button. I
never user them. They just make the keyboard bigger. 20% of the keys on
my current keyboard will never be used.

Obviously I want the keys to be comfortable to use 8 hours a day.

The recently announce keyboard from microsoft is fairly close to what I'm
looking for:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/08/microsofts-new-ergonomic-keyboard-is-just-plain-weird-looking/

But it's ergonomic style is a bit of a negative.

Any thoughts?

David

If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
-Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-14 Thread Davy Jones

Ergonomic keyboards are a must as you get older. I have been using one
since 2000. When i type on a normal keyboard for more than a few hours I
suffer from tremendous wrist pain and can't type for hours afterwards.

Davy

Sent from my starfleet datapad.

On 14 août 2013, at 19:05, David Richards ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com
wrote:

A few qualifying points:

I don't care about media buttons or any other specific use button. I never
user them. They just make the keyboard bigger. 20% of the keys on my
current keyboard will never be used.

Obviously I want the keys to be comfortable to use 8 hours a day.

The recently announce keyboard from microsoft is fairly close to what I'm
looking for:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/08/microsofts-new-ergonomic-keyboard-is-just-plain-weird-looking/

But it's ergonomic style is a bit of a negative.

Any thoughts?

David

If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
-Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-14 Thread David Richards

That's the keyboard I'm using. It's pretty good as far as keyboards go.
The keys feel nice to use. All the extra buttons go unused. It also puts
my mouse at least 40cm off my centre line. My arm is on what I guess is a
45 degree angle to reach it. I think reducing that will have a substantial
benefit in the long run.

David

If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
-Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

On 15 August 2013 12:11, Craig van Nieuwkerk crai...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Richards
ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote:

A few qualifying points:

I don't want a number pad or at least I don't want one on the right of
the keyboard. Not that I have anything against them, I just want my mouse
to be closer. I've tested this using a cheap (and crappy) laptop like
keyboard and there is a noticeable difference in comfort. I can just as
easily by a separate number pad keyboard to position elsewhere.

I don't care about media buttons or any other specific use button. I
never user them. They just make the keyboard bigger. 20% of the keys on
my current keyboard will never be used.

Obviously I want the keys to be comfortable to use 8 hours a day.

The recently announce keyboard from microsoft is fairly close to what I'm
looking for:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/08/microsofts-new-ergonomic-keyboard-is-just-plain-weird-looking/

But it's ergonomic style is a bit of a negative.

Any thoughts?

David

If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
-Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-14 Thread mike smith

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Richards
ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote:

A few qualifying points:

What does it even do?

Disagree. Going back to flat KB's is a major pain now for me.

I don't care about media buttons or any other specific use button. I
never user them. They just make the keyboard bigger. 20% of the keys on
my current keyboard will never be used.

Agree, and get rid of the effing flock key and all the media shifts on the
f keys.

Obviously I want the keys to be comfortable to use 8 hours a day.

Dude, at least 8. You likely use a KB another 4-8 when you get home.

The recently announce keyboard from microsoft is fairly close to what I'm
looking for:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/08/microsofts-new-ergonomic-keyboard-is-just-plain-weird-looking/

But it's ergonomic style is a bit of a negative.

Yes, and I'm going to call in at officeworks to buy one on the way home.
Thank you!

Re ergonomic. Try it for a while, you'll learn to love leaning your wrists
on something. And likely hate the normal ones. I use one at home on the
iMac - for such an ergonomic company Apple has awful keyboards and mice.

--
Meski

http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv

Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure,
you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-14 Thread Wallace Turner

I'm back on a compact keyboard - works for me.
http://www.dhgate.com/product/new-dell-mini-1012-series-uk-black-keyboard/143650991.html?utm_source=plautm_medium=GMCutm_campaign=wisshenutm_term=143650991f=bm%7c143650991%7c104006-Keyboards-Mice-Input%7cGMC%7cAdwords%7cpla%7cwisshen%7cAU%7c104006007-LaptopReplacementKeyboards%7cc%7cgclid=CIvSya7F_rgCFcYipQodXjoAkA

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Corneliu I. Tusnea corne...@acorns.com.au
wrote:

Hi David,

I'm a big fan of keyboards and I've tested heaps and heaps of them and I
always go back to the ergonomic ones from Microsoft.
I know you don't like them but I think they are very very good and once
you get used you'll never want to go back.

I'm currently using the Microsoft Natural 400
http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/natural-ergonomic-keyboard-4000

I have one at home and one at work and they rock. The split angle is small
enough to allow easy use with one hand in the rare moments that I need to
use a single hand and keep a hand on the mouse.
The older ergonomic ones were having a higher angle making them impossible
to use with one hand.
I also looked at that new Manta Ray and I think I'll buy one. I like that
the keypad is separate and I love the long delete key (my previous keyboard
had that long delete and I enjoyed it.

To make my life easier I always remap most of VS commands that I
frequently use to use only the left hand with no need to use the right hand.
- Alt+1 - Build Selected Project
- Alt+2 - Find References (Resharper)
- Alt+W - Highlight References
- Alt+Q - Goto Definition
and few more so you can keep a hand on the mouse and one on the keyboard :)

I think no keyboard shortcut should ever need two hands.
Whoever came up with the Ctrl+Shift+F12 shortcut and Ctrl+Shift+B?
Have you tried to press Ctrl+Shift+B with one hand? My hand hurts just
looking a the keyboard to try to figure out how to press that.

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 1:08 PM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Richards
ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote:

A few qualifying points:

I don't want a number pad or at least I don't want one on the right of
the keyboard. Not that I have anything against them, I just want my mouse
to be closer. I've tested this using a cheap (and crappy) laptop like
keyboard and there is a noticeable difference in comfort. I can just as
easily by a separate number pad keyboard to position elsewhere.

What does it even do?

Disagree. Going back to flat KB's is a major pain now for me.

I don't care about media buttons or any other specific use button. I
never user them. They just make the keyboard bigger. 20% of the keys on
my current keyboard will never be used.

Agree, and get rid of the effing flock key and all the media shifts on
the f keys.

Obviously I want the keys to be comfortable to use 8 hours a day.

Dude, at least 8. You likely use a KB another 4-8 when you get home.

The recently announce keyboard from microsoft is fairly close to what
I'm looking for:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/08/microsofts-new-ergonomic-keyboard-is-just-plain-weird-looking/

But it's ergonomic style is a bit of a negative.

Yes, and I'm going to call in at officeworks to buy one on the way home.
Thank you!

Re ergonomic. Try it for a while, you'll learn to love leaning your
wrists on something. And likely hate the normal ones. I use one at home
on the iMac - for such an ergonomic company Apple has awful

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-14 Thread Grant Maw

On 15 August 2013 13:51, Wallace Turner wallace.tur...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm back on a compact keyboard - works for me.

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Corneliu I. Tusnea
corne...@acorns.com.au wrote:

Hi David,

I'm currently using the Microsoft Natural 400
http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/natural-ergonomic-keyboard-4000

I have one at home and one at work and they rock. The split angle is
small enough to allow easy use with one hand in the rare moments that I
need to use a single hand and keep a hand on the mouse.
The older ergonomic ones were having a higher angle making them
impossible to use with one hand.
I also looked at that new Manta Ray and I think I'll buy one. I like that
the keypad is separate and I love the long delete key (my previous keyboard
had that long delete and I enjoyed it.

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 1:08 PM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Richards
ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote:

A few qualifying points:

I don't want a number pad or at least I don't want one on the right of
the keyboard. Not that I have anything against them, I just want my mouse
to be closer. I've tested this using a cheap (and crappy) laptop like
keyboard and there is a noticeable difference in comfort. I can just as
easily by a separate number pad keyboard to position elsewhere.

Or not at all. If you touchtype, they are almost unused. Funny I
didn't realise this, I just picked up my somewhat used KB and held it to
reflect light. Right. The numeric KB is still matte, the main KB numbers
are shiny with wear.

What does it even do?

I don't like those ergonomic keyboards that split the keyboard to
be comfortable for two hands. I don't know about the rest of you but I
spend at least as much time with one hand on the mouse and the other on the
keyboard as I do with both hands on the keyboard. So the ergonomic aspects
are actually a hindrance when typing with one hand.

Disagree. Going back to flat KB's is a major pain now for me.

I don't care about media buttons or any other specific use button. I
never user them. They just make the keyboard bigger. 20% of the keys on
my current keyboard will never be used.

Agree, and get rid of the effing flock key and all the media shifts on
the f keys.

Obviously I want the keys to be comfortable to use 8 hours a day.

Dude, at least 8. You likely use a KB another 4-8 when you get home.

The recently announce keyboard from microsoft is fairly close to what
I'm looking for:

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-14 Thread David Richards

We have a Microsoft Natural 400 in the office. I don't like it. it
doesn't fit my typing style. Apart from using my left hand for most of my
typing, I suspect part of my problem with ergonomic keyboards is a bit of
RSI in the first knuckle of my index fingers. I consequently don't use
these for typing or on the mouse. I stopped a good 10 years ago (have been
typing for at least 30 years). It's a bit strange since I was never a two
finger typer. My guess is I used to hit keys harder with those fingers. I
remember my C64 keys needing to be hit pretty hard. So my typing style
isn't standard.

On the topic of shortcuts, this is the mouse I use:
http://www.cyborggaming.com/prod/mmo.htm

The extra buttons are quite handy in that regard. And its a comfortable
mouse to use.

David

If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
-Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

On 15 August 2013 13:33, Corneliu I. Tusnea corne...@acorns.com.au wrote:

Hi David,

I'm currently using the Microsoft Natural 400
http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/natural-ergonomic-keyboard-4000

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 1:08 PM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Richards
ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote:

A few qualifying points:

I don't want a number pad or at least I don't want one on the right of
the keyboard. Not that I have anything against them, I just want my mouse
to be closer. I've tested this using a cheap (and crappy) laptop like
keyboard and there is a noticeable difference in comfort. I can just as
easily by a separate number pad keyboard to position elsewhere.

What does it even do?

Disagree. Going back to flat KB's is a major pain now for me.

I don't care about media buttons or any other specific use button. I
never user them. They just make the keyboard bigger. 20% of the keys on
my current keyboard will never be used.

Agree, and get rid of the effing flock key and all the media shifts on
the f keys.

Obviously I want the keys to be comfortable to use 8 hours a day.

Dude, at least 8. You likely use a KB another 4-8 when you get home.

The recently announce keyboard from microsoft is fairly close to what
I'm looking for:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/08/microsofts-new-ergonomic-keyboard-is-just-plain-weird-looking/

But it's ergonomic style is a bit of a negative.

Yes, and I'm going to call in at officeworks to buy one on the way home.
Thank you!

Re ergonomic. Try it for a while,

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-14 Thread mike smith

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Corneliu I. Tusnea
corne...@acorns.com.auwrote:

Hi David,

I'm currently using the Microsoft Natural 400
http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/natural-ergonomic-keyboard-4000

+1 on this. How many of you play games? With definable keys? Now look
at the key/mouse combos you're using day to day doing that, and you won't
find Ctrl+Shift+B amongst them. Multiple modifiers are a pain.

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 1:08 PM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Richards
ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote:

A few qualifying points:

I don't want a number pad or at least I don't want one on the right of
the keyboard. Not that I have anything against them, I just want my mouse
to be closer. I've tested this using a cheap (and crappy) laptop like
keyboard and there is a noticeable difference in comfort. I can just as
easily by a separate number pad keyboard to position elsewhere.

What does it even do?

Disagree. Going back to flat KB's is a major pain now for me.

I don't care about media buttons or any other specific use button. I
never user them. They just make the keyboard bigger. 20% of the keys on
my current keyboard will never be used.

Agree, and get rid of the effing flock key and all the media shifts on
the f keys.

Obviously I want the keys to be comfortable to use 8 hours a day.

Dude, at least 8. You likely use a KB another 4-8 when you get home.

The recently announce keyboard from microsoft is fairly close to what
I'm looking for:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/08/microsofts-new-ergonomic-keyboard-is-just-plain-weird-looking/

David, did you find one of these in Australia? Amazon and costco in USA
was all I could quickly see.

But it's ergonomic style is a bit of a negative.

Yes, and I'm going to call in at officeworks to buy one on the way home.
Thank you!

Re ergonomic. Try it for a while, you'll learn to love leaning your
wrists on something. And likely hate the normal ones. I use one at home
on the iMac - for such an ergonomic company Apple has awful keyboards and
mice.

--
Meski

http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv

Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure,
you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills

--
Meski

http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv

Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure,
you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-14 Thread Joseph Cooney

I am a big fan of the das keyboard mechanical keyboards. I have 2, one for
home, one for work. Slight preference for the older II series.
On 15 Aug 2013 13:59, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote:

On 15 August 2013 13:51, Wallace Turner wallace.tur...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm back on a compact keyboard - works for me.

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Corneliu I. Tusnea
corne...@acorns.com.au wrote:

Hi David,

I'm currently using the Microsoft Natural 400
http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/natural-ergonomic-keyboard-4000

I have one at home and one at work and they rock. The split angle is
small enough to allow easy use with one hand in the rare moments that I
need to use a single hand and keep a hand on the mouse.
The older ergonomic ones were having a higher angle making them
impossible to use with one hand.
I also looked at that new Manta Ray and I think I'll buy one. I like
that the keypad is separate and I love the long delete key (my previous
keyboard had that long delete and I enjoyed it.

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 1:08 PM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Richards
ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote:

A bit off topic and a bit on topic. I've been in the market for a
good developer keyboard for a while but never seem to find anything I
like.
I was just wondering if others on this list had found a decent keyboard.

A few qualifying points:

I don't want a number pad or at least I don't want one on the right of
the keyboard. Not that I have anything against them, I just want my mouse
to be closer. I've tested this using a cheap (and crappy) laptop like
keyboard and there is a noticeable difference in comfort. I can just as
easily by a separate number pad keyboard to position elsewhere.

Or not at all. If you touchtype, they are almost unused. Funny I
didn't realise this, I just picked up my somewhat used KB and held it to
reflect light. Right. The numeric KB is still matte, the main KB numbers
are shiny with wear.

I would prefer the cursor keys and the other navigation keys to be in
a reasonable location. My crappy keyboard as some of these along the
bottom. It also sacrificed the right Control key in favour of a Scroll
Lock key. Who uses scroll lock any more?

What does it even do?

I don't like those ergonomic keyboards that split the keyboard to
be comfortable for two hands. I don't know about the rest of you but I
spend at least as much time with one hand on the mouse and the other on
the
keyboard as I do with both hands on the keyboard. So the ergonomic
aspects
are actually a hindrance when typing with one hand.

Disagree. Going back to flat KB's is a major pain now for me.

I don't care about media buttons or any other specific use button. I
never user them. They just make the keyboard bigger. 20% of the keys on
my current keyboard will never be used.

Agree, and get rid of the effing flock key and all the media shifts on
the f keys.

Obviously I want the keys to be comfortable to use 8 hours a day.

Dude, at

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-14 Thread David Richards

That compact keyboard looks pretty good. Although it looks like a
replacement for a laptop rather than a separate keyboard. There are no
wasted keys and the keys it has seem at least mostly in the right places.
Something like that with nice keys would be good. I've yet to find one
though. The ones I've seen always try to make them like laptop keys.

David

If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
-Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

On 15 August 2013 13:51, Wallace Turner wallace.tur...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm back on a compact keyboard - works for me.

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Corneliu I. Tusnea
corne...@acorns.com.au wrote:

Hi David,

I'm currently using the Microsoft Natural 400
http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/natural-ergonomic-keyboard-4000

I have one at home and one at work and they rock. The split angle is
small enough to allow easy use with one hand in the rare moments that I
need to use a single hand and keep a hand on the mouse.
The older ergonomic ones were having a higher angle making them
impossible to use with one hand.
I also looked at that new Manta Ray and I think I'll buy one. I like that
the keypad is separate and I love the long delete key (my previous keyboard
had that long delete and I enjoyed it.

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 1:08 PM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Richards
ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote:

A few qualifying points:

I don't want a number pad or at least I don't want one on the right of
the keyboard. Not that I have anything against them, I just want my mouse
to be closer. I've tested this using a cheap (and crappy) laptop like
keyboard and there is a noticeable difference in comfort. I can just as
easily by a separate number pad keyboard to position elsewhere.

Or not at all. If you touchtype, they are almost unused. Funny I
didn't realise this, I just picked up my somewhat used KB and held it to
reflect light. Right. The numeric KB is still matte, the main KB numbers
are shiny with wear.

What does it even do?

I don't like those ergonomic keyboards that split the keyboard to
be comfortable for two hands. I don't know about the rest of you but I
spend at least as much time with one hand on the mouse and the other on the
keyboard as I do with both hands on the keyboard. So the ergonomic aspects
are actually a hindrance when typing with one hand.

Disagree. Going back to flat KB's is a major pain now for me.

I don't care about media buttons or any other specific use button. I
never user them. They just make the keyboard bigger. 20% of the keys on
my current keyboard will never be used.

Agree, and get rid of the effing flock key and all the media shifts on
the f keys.

Obviously I want the keys to be comfortable to use 8 hours a day.

Dude, at least 8. You likely use a KB

RE: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-14 Thread Greg Low (Old POP Address)

Hi Grant,

 

Which SteelSeries ones do you like?

 

Regards,

 

Greg

 

Dr Greg Low

 

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax


SQL Down Under | Web:  http://www.sqldownunder.com/ www.sqldownunder.com

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Grant Maw
Sent: Thursday, 15 August 2013 2:00 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

 

You really ought to try a mechanical keyboard. They are more expensive but
they are solid, well built, and will last you a lifetime if you look after
them. My (non-touch) typing has improved by a factor of 2, and I was pretty
fast before this. Look at Armor for a wireless one or SteelSeries for a
wired one.

 

On 15 August 2013 13:51, Wallace Turner wallace.tur...@gmail.com
mailto:wallace.tur...@gmail.com  wrote:

Do not accept that the ergonomic keyboard will make your life easier. I used
one for well over a year before I realised I hated it. its too big, its
inconvenient. when debugging step out is a pain in the neck as I'm used to
using my left hand alone to do this (Shift-11) as my right hand is on the
mouse so i can inspect variables or whatever I need to do when debugging.

 

I'm back on a compact keyboard - works for me.

http://www.dhgate.com/product/new-dell-mini-1012-series-uk-black-keyboard/14
3650991.html?utm_source=pla
http://www.dhgate.com/product/new-dell-mini-1012-series-uk-black-keyboard/1
43650991.html?utm_source=plautm_medium=GMCutm_campaign=wisshenutm_term=14
3650991f=bm%7c143650991%7c104006-Keyboards-Mice-Input%7cGMC%7cAdwords%7cpla
%7cwisshen%7cAU%7c104006007-LaptopReplacementKeyboards%7cc%7cgclid=CIvSya7F
_rgCFcYipQodXjoAkA
utm_medium=GMCutm_campaign=wisshenutm_term=143650991f=bm%7c143650991%7c1
04006-Keyboards-Mice-Input%7cGMC%7cAdwords%7cpla%7cwisshen%7cAU%7c104006007-
LaptopReplacementKeyboards%7cc%7cgclid=CIvSya7F_rgCFcYipQodXjoAkA

 

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Corneliu I. Tusnea corne...@acorns.com.au
mailto:corne...@acorns.com.au  wrote:

Hi David,

 

I'm a big fan of keyboards and I've tested heaps and heaps of them and I
always go back to the ergonomic ones from Microsoft.

I know you don't like them but I think they are very very good and once you
get used you'll never want to go back.

 

I'm currently using the Microsoft Natural 400 

http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/natural-ergonomic-keyboard-4000

 

I have one at home and one at work and they rock. The split angle is small
enough to allow easy use with one hand in the rare moments that I need to
use a single hand and keep a hand on the mouse.

The older ergonomic ones were having a higher angle making them impossible
to use with one hand.

I also looked at that new Manta Ray and I think I'll buy one. I like that
the keypad is separate and I love the long delete key (my previous keyboard
had that long delete and I enjoyed it.

 

To make my life easier I always remap most of VS commands that I frequently
use to use only the left hand with no need to use the right hand.

- Alt+1 - Build Selected Project

- Alt+2 - Find References (Resharper)

- Alt+W - Highlight References

- Alt+Q - Goto Definition

and few more so you can keep a hand on the mouse and one on the keyboard :)

 

I think no keyboard shortcut should ever need two hands.

Whoever came up with the Ctrl+Shift+F12 shortcut and Ctrl+Shift+B?

Have you tried to press Ctrl+Shift+B with one hand? My hand hurts just
looking a the keyboard to try to figure out how to press that.

 

 

 

 

 

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 1:08 PM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com
mailto:meski...@gmail.com  wrote:

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Richards
ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com mailto:ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com  wrote:

A bit off topic and a bit on topic.  I've been in the market for a good
developer keyboard for a while but never seem to find anything I like.  I
was just wondering if others on this list had found a decent keyboard.

 

A few qualifying points:

 

I don't want a number pad or at least I don't want one on the right of the
keyboard.  Not that I have anything against them, I just want my mouse to be
closer.  I've tested this using a cheap (and crappy) laptop like keyboard
and there is a noticeable difference in comfort.  I can just as easily by a
separate number pad keyboard to position elsewhere.

 

 

Or not at all.  If you touchtype, they are almost unused.  Funny I didn't
realise this, I just picked up my somewhat used KB and held it to reflect
light.   Right.  The numeric KB is still matte, the main KB numbers are
shiny with wear.

 

I would prefer the cursor keys and the other navigation keys to be in a
reasonable location.  My crappy keyboard as some of these along the
bottom.  It also sacrificed the right Control key in favour of a Scroll Lock
key.  Who uses scroll lock any more?

 

 

What does it even do?  

 

I don't like those ergonomic keyboards that split the keyboard to be
comfortable

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-14 Thread Wallace Turner

das keyboard mechanical keyboards
http://www.daskeyboard.com/product/model-s-ultimate/

these are especially fun when you want to check you got a password correct
:)
For fun, I would like to see them remove the F1 key from this model
(useless help) and the scroll lock key, (sry teracopy)

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-14 Thread David Richards

Mike,

I saw it on arstechnica.  I didn't think it was even out yet.  If it wasn't
ergonomic, I'd get it as soon as it was available.

David

If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama


On 15 August 2013 14:05, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote:




 The recently announce keyboard from microsoft is fairly close to what
 I'm looking for:


 http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/08/microsofts-new-ergonomic-keyboard-is-just-plain-weird-looking/


 David, did you find one of these in Australia?  Amazon and costco in USA
 was all I could quickly see.

Re: [OT] Developer keyboard

2013-08-14 Thread David Richards

I had a mechanical keyboard many years ago and from memory, it required a
harder tap on the keys.  Plus it was noisy.  Unless they have changed in
recent years (which is likely) I'd be worried about it slowing me down,
requiring harder tapping or just generally being annoying in the office.  I
might have to see if there is a demo unit in a shop somewhere.  Still, they
all seem to have a number pad which I want to avoid.

David

If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama


On 15 August 2013 14:14, Wallace Turner wallace.tur...@gmail.com wrote:

 das keyboard mechanical keyboards
 http://www.daskeyboard.com/product/model-s-ultimate/

 these are especially fun when you want to check you got a password correct
 :)
 For fun, I would like to see them remove the F1 key from this model
 (useless help) and the scroll lock key, (sry teracopy)

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