[ozmidwifery] research @ uni
This semester @ uni we're doing a subject called Research in Healthcare (we share it w/ nursing bioscience students). For 1/2 of our mark for the subject, we have to write a research proposal w/ 2 other students. At this stage, we've thought of a question have begun to do a literature review have hit a brick wall! Basically, we haven't found any existing research on our topic. I know that doesn't neccesarily mean our topic is crap, but I don't know if that means if our topic is feasible or not! Just wondering what you all think... whether the topic's feasible, any article suggestions, or anything else that comes to mind. Here's our question: "Do women need a routine VE to confirm they're fully dialated before they are 'allowed' to begin pushing?" or alternatively "Does performing a routine VE to confirm a women's fully dialated before she's 'allowed' to begin pushing reduce maternal /or fetal outcome?" All of the midwives did a routine VE to confirm a women's fully dialated before she's 'allowed' to begin pushing @ the hospital we did our clinicals in. w/ increasing the risk of ascending infection, discomfort for the woman, the need to validate what the woman's body is telling her, etc... it just seemed really unnecessary. Anyway, it's early days, so if this question won't work, we have plenty of time to do something else. Jen Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile.
Re: [ozmidwifery] research @ uni
Jen, I am not sure how helpful this is, but I personally think that asking this question is valid and would cause a few to stop and think. It would certainly go some way to bringing it home that allowing a mother to go by what her body is telling her rather than when the clock or the care provider tells her. I will ask around with some of my academic contacts to see if there is much around. cheers jo Jo Bainbridgefounding member CARES SAwww.cares-sa.org.au[EMAIL PROTECTED]phone: 08 8388 6918birth with trust, faith love... - Original Message - From: Jen Semple To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 7:02 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] research @ uni This semester @ uni we're doing a subject called Research in Healthcare (we share it w/ nursing bioscience students). For 1/2 of our mark for the subject, we have to write a research proposal w/ 2 other students. At this stage, we've thought of a question have begun to do a literature review have hit a brick wall! Basically, we haven't found any existing research on our topic. I know that doesn't neccesarily mean our topic is crap, but I don't know if that means if our topic is feasible or not! Just wondering what you all think... whether the topic's feasible, any article suggestions, or anything else that comes to mind. Here's our question: "Do women need a routine VE to confirm they're fully dialated before they are 'allowed' to begin pushing?" or alternatively "Does performing a routine VE to confirm a women's fully dialated before she's 'allowed' to begin pushing reduce maternal /or fetal outcome?" All of the midwives did a routine VE to confirm a women's fully dialated before she's 'allowed' to begin pushing @ the hospital we did our clinicals in. w/ increasing the risk of ascending infection, discomfort for the woman, the need to validate what the woman's body is telling her, etc... it just seemed really unnecessary. Anyway, it's early days, so if this question won't work, we have plenty of time to do something else. Jen Yahoo! Mobile- Check compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile.
Re: [ozmidwifery] research @ uni
Jen, What a wonderful research question! As a homebirth midwife I do not routinely do V.E's to confirm full dialtion before "allowing" a woman to push. Many primiparous women do not have V.E's at home and progress without harm,to the birth of their babies. The only time I do a V.E in that situation is when the women is saying that it "really hurts" when she pushes.That is often a signaland means that she isn't yet in 2nd stage or that there is a hand lying alongside the head (not proven until birthing). It shouldn't hurt so badly whenin normal 2nd stage.If I suspect a woman is not really in 2nd stge, I ask her to try and breathe through thecontractions to the best of her ability until the head descends some more. Occasionally there is an "anterior lip". As for "allowing" What does that mean? The woman will push when she has to and no amount of "not allowing" will stop her. Multiparous women at home never have a V.E to 'Prove' full dilation. Why would you? Also there is that lovely "red/purple line" that appears. I think that is a really good guide to full dilation, but I don't always see it. In the research question, are you going to differentiate between Primips or multips? I would suggest just using primips. If it is entrenched behaviour or routine, you might not get the numbers in hospitals so think about involving a homebirth or birthcentre practice. Also, if you haven't already,do your literature search in homebirth/midwives magazines. Midwifery today etc. Love to hear how you are going with it and what you decide. MM
[ozmidwifery] 'Allowing' to push
Mary said:As for "allowing" What does that mean? The woman will push when she has to and no amount of "not allowing" will stop her. The major concern is for those mothers who are told to push when they don't need to. There really is no way a woman can be told not to push; but the damage that can because when forced to push is hugely ignored. When I had my second baby (first vbac) the hospital midwife said to my Independent midwife "don't you teach your women to push!" Hmm kinda says alot Jo Bainbridgefounding member CARES SAwww.cares-sa.org.au[EMAIL PROTECTED]phone: 08 8388 6918birth with trust, faith love... - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 7:56 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] research @ uni Jen, What a wonderful research question! As a homebirth midwife I do not routinely do V.E's to confirm full dialtion before "allowing" a woman to push. Many primiparous women do not have V.E's at home and progress without harm,to the birth of their babies. The only time I do a V.E in that situation is when the women is saying that it "really hurts" when she pushes.That is often a signaland means that she isn't yet in 2nd stage or that there is a hand lying alongside the head (not proven until birthing). It shouldn't hurt so badly whenin normal 2nd stage.If I suspect a woman is not really in 2nd stge, I ask her to try and breathe through thecontractions to the best of her ability until the head descends some more. Occasionally there is an "anterior lip". As for "allowing" What does that mean? The woman will push when she has to and no amount of "not allowing" will stop her. Multiparous women at home never have a V.E to 'Prove' full dilation. Why would you? Also there is that lovely "red/purple line" that appears. I think that is a really good guide to full dilation, but I don't always see it. In the research question, are you going to differentiate between Primips or multips? I would suggest just using primips. If it is entrenched behaviour or routine, you might not get the numbers in hospitals so think about involving a homebirth or birthcentre practice. Also, if you haven't already,do your literature search in homebirth/midwives magazines. Midwifery today etc. Love to hear how you are going with it and what you decide. MM
Re: [ozmidwifery] research @ uni
In a message dated 15/03/03 7:54:00 PM AUS Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This semester @ uni we're doing a subject called Research in Healthcare (we share it w/ nursing bioscience students). For 1/2 of our mark for the subject, we have to write a research proposal w/ 2 other students. At this stage, we've thought of a question have begun to do a literature review have hit a brick wall! Basically, we haven't found any existing research on our topic. I know that doesn't neccesarily mean our topic is crap, but I don't know if that means if our topic is feasible or not! Just wondering what you all think... whether the topic's feasible, any article suggestions, or anything else that comes to mind. Here's our question: "Do women need a routine VE to confirm they're fully dialated before they are 'allowed' to begin pushing?" or alternatively "Does performing a routine VE to confirm a women's fully dialated before she's 'allowed' to begin pushing reduce maternal /or fetal outcome?" All of the midwives did a routine VE to confirm a women's fully dialated before she's 'allowed' to begin pushing @ the hospital we did our clinicals in. w/ increasing the risk of ascending infection, discomfort for the woman, the need to validate what the woman's body is telling her, etc... it just seemed really unnecessary. Anyway, it's early days, so if this question won't work, we have plenty of time to do something else. Jen Hi Jen...congrats on a great research topic...my thoughts are that this type of practice is sadly a symptom of our current model of service delivery that fails to offer continuity of carer to women...fragmented care fails to ehance the woman/midiwfe partnership, hence the levels of interventions and distrust in the woman's ability to safely and joyously birth her baby... I would be searching midiwfery data bases for literature, MIDIRS, Midwifery Today etc...I have one resource that may be a starting point...the article is Grant J. (1987) Reassessing Second Stage, Association of Charted Physiotherapists in Obstetrics and Gynaecology Journal No. 60 Jan 1987 pp26-30 In. MIDIRS Info pack Number 6. Dec. 1987. Good luck. Yours in reforming midwifery Tina Pettigrew. B Mid Student ACU Melb. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BMidStudentCollective/
Re: [ozmidwifery] research @ uni
HI Jen...found another ref worth looking at: Hobbs L. ((1998) 'Assessing cervical dilation without VEs - Watching the purple line ' The Practising Midwife November 1998 Vol.1 Number 11. Cheers Tina.
[ozmidwifery] attending the birth from a distance?...
Just wanted to share a lovely story about a birth I attended last night, where the woman planned to birth in hospital (having a VBAC) after labouring for as long as she could at home, with myself and Wendy, the midwife I work with. This woman's husband was unfortunately not here,as he is travelling overseas for work due home tomorrow. We managed not only to take heaps of photos and video footage (with a fantastic machine with a 'night vision' switch so you can literally see in the dark!), but we managed to get her husband on the phone (oops, forgot you're not supposed to use a moblie in hospitals :)) and he heard his baby boy being born, and take his first breath and letout his first little cry.What an amazing experience for us all, feeling all a bit emotional aboutthewhole thing at the moment, with my husband also out of the country for a few weeks (good for nothing blokes!) Just had to share, Tania ~Go after the thing you most hate, Doing what you most love, Using the skills you have...~
Re: [ozmidwifery] attending the birth from a distance?...
Have you watched the video footage yet? I'm currently doing a digital video editing course and even the expensive cameras show up black and white and a little blurry in night vision. I'm hoping to film some births! Sounds like you've had a great experience :sigh: lucky you and well done to the family! Jayne We managed not only to take heaps of photos and video footage (with a fantastic machine with a 'night vision' switch so you can literally see in the dark!), but we managed to get her husband on the phone (oops, forgot you're not supposed to use a moblie in hospitals :)) and he heard his baby boy being born, and take his first breath and letout his first little cry.What an amazing experience for us all, feeling all a bit emotional aboutthewhole thing at the moment, with my husband also out of the country for a few weeks (good for nothing blokes!)
Re: [ozmidwifery] research @ uni
Jen, I have to agree with Mary's comments. I believe it is very 'institutional' to not 'allow' a woman to push before we do a VE to ascertain if she is fully dilated. Gosh, who are we! Not only are we setting the woman up for intervention, because many women can be fully and then move into that resting phase before pushing, but we are taking away completely their confidence in their own ability to birth. In units like mine where some of the obstetriciansset the time clock for second stage ie one hour for primi, half hour for multi, then Iam certainly averse to jumping in and doing a VE.Surely as midwives we can observe the body language and hear the change in the woman's sounds. After bumper to bumper contractions, transition stuff and you hear those wonderful 'pushing' noises. Whoa, to me we are on a roll. Why would I want to do a VE! As Mary so aptly states there are times that progress does indicate that we need to do a VE, but let's identify the normal and leave well alone. Sometimes yes, primis can be tricky, but time will tell. My unit is very obstetrical, but I rarely do a VE to establish second stage. Women who are regarded as high risk, have induction of labour, epidurals and other interventions are in a different category of course. You can't always rely on their innate ability to labour and birth because of the interventions and therefore cannot recognise the signs of normal progress so easily. Tew (Safer childbirth) may be of help and the WHO guide to normal birth (1996). A great topic toexplore and I wish you luck. Nola - Original Message - From: Jen Semple To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 7:32 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] research @ uni This semester @ uni we're doing a subject called Research in Healthcare (we share it w/ nursing bioscience students). For 1/2 of our mark for the subject, we have to write a research proposal w/ 2 other students. At this stage, we've thought of a question have begun to do a literature review have hit a brick wall! Basically, we haven't found any existing research on our topic. I know that doesn't neccesarily mean our topic is crap, but I don't know if that means if our topic is feasible or not! Just wondering what you all think... whether the topic's feasible, any article suggestions, or anything else that comes to mind. Here's our question: "Do women need a routine VE to confirm they're fully dialated before they are 'allowed' to begin pushing?" or alternatively "Does performing a routine VE to confirm a women's fully dialated before she's 'allowed' to begin pushing reduce maternal /or fetal outcome?" All of the midwives did a routine VE to confirm a women's fully dialated before she's 'allowed' to begin pushing @ the hospital we did our clinicals in. w/ increasing the risk of ascending infection, discomfort for the woman, the need to validate what the woman's body is telling her, etc... it just seemed really unnecessary. Anyway, it's early days, so if this question won't work, we have plenty of time to do something else. Jen Yahoo! Mobile- Check compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile.
Re: [ozmidwifery] research @ uni
Valid research questions, although the first one is better worded (IMHO) however, the practice of VE to confirm full dilatation is not universal although if this is the practise that you have witnessed ... As you state there are so many other signs that a Midwife who is astute will note that confirm full dilation has occured- especially if she has been accompanying the woman for some time along her birth journey Alesa Alesa KoziolClinical Midwifery EducatorMelbourne - Original Message - From: Jen Semple To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 7:32 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] research @ uni This semester @ uni we're doing a subject called Research in Healthcare (we share it w/ nursing bioscience students). For 1/2 of our mark for the subject, we have to write a research proposal w/ 2 other students. At this stage, we've thought of a question have begun to do a literature review have hit a brick wall! Basically, we haven't found any existing research on our topic. I know that doesn't neccesarily mean our topic is crap, but I don't know if that means if our topic is feasible or not! Just wondering what you all think... whether the topic's feasible, any article suggestions, or anything else that comes to mind. Here's our question: "Do women need a routine VE to confirm they're fully dialated before they are 'allowed' to begin pushing?" or alternatively "Does performing a routine VE to confirm a women's fully dialated before she's 'allowed' to begin pushing reduce maternal /or fetal outcome?" All of the midwives did a routine VE to confirm a women's fully dialated before she's 'allowed' to begin pushing @ the hospital we did our clinicals in. w/ increasing the risk of ascending infection, discomfort for the woman, the need to validate what the woman's body is telling her, etc... it just seemed really unnecessary. Anyway, it's early days, so if this question won't work, we have plenty of time to do something else. Jen Yahoo! Mobile- Check compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile.
Re: [ozmidwifery] failure to sleep through the night!!!
Hi Pinky, Eat lots of apples too they will help to cleanse your system a bit. Hope all goes well for you. What you are saying about the isolation is so very true and it has got to a point where people are too afraid to offer help - A - just in case the Mother feels that you think she is not coping - don't want to offend her. B - Just in case she is in so much need of help that you can't help enough C- To interfere with things may look rude. The compasion and support mothers used to give each other is gone The understanding is not there - it is all very competative (The media has a lot to answer for here) Having the perfectly behaved toddler and a baby that sleep all night and a child who doesn't answer back is all importnant. The normal things like answering back and sibling rivalry have been pulled apart and disected and analised so much that there are so many experts who say don't smack, don't yell, don't be emotional about parenting - Don't molly codle and over cuddle - -They have forgoten to say any Do's. My mother said to me when i rang her absolutely bursting with joy - I had held my 2 week old prem baby for 10 mins (her first cuddle), I was so happy and I said - "I didn't want to put her back."My Mum's reply was, "Oh Now then - you will spoil her!" I was horrified - I was being judged as a bad mother (to spoil my child who was 2 weeks old) Ialready had guilt feeling of having to have her torn from my stomach at 27 weeks because i had failed at carrying her to term and shehad been on ventilators and close to death and was still seriously ill in NICU and then a 10 min cuddle which I didn't want to ever end was going to spoil her. How could I ever pick her up again without wondering if that was going to be too much. Then each time I sat and expressed there was a poster can't remember the exact words - it had a photo of a woman with her baby in a sling and saidhow women in Africa carry their babies on their backs and at the breast all day in slings - their babies hardly ever cry andgrow to be very secure children - How can we help our babies not to cry so much? This poster touched me and I realised at that point that no amount of cuddles could spoil a child. I would look at that and decided then that I would never leave my baby to cry itself to sleep alone. So maybe more women need to be reminded of that simple fact! Regards Rhonda. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, March 15, 2003 17:57:21 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] "failure to sleep through the night"!!! Hi Rhonda yes you are lucky to be away from the chemicals and smog -youve got me thinking - 2 emergency hospital visits in two weeks for allergic reactions to food - I bet my whole system is overloaded -am eating veges and rice til I see an allergy spec next week. I do remember working withmothercraft nurses (actually Karitane nurses as they were called in New Zealand way back then - dont know if NZ still has them)-great help to mums. Guess its another case of economic rationalism gone silly - maybe with the help early mums wouldnt all end up in sleep schools. I just visited my daughters friend in Private hosp with new bub last week and thought how isolated she really was in her flash single room watching TV - notice on the wall announced the times to watch the parenting video -I guess that was done in isolation too. Perhaps that is what some mums want but by being so separate from other women how do they role model ie from more experienced mums/get a taste of sharing experiences and feelings/ how do they know their own feelings are normal? Also just realised last night that I have been taking family members to a psychiatrist for the past almost 5 years (same guy) this guy is probably a fine medical Dr but he is also director of a mother baby unit so psecialises in PND - My lightbulb moment was that not once in all this time has he asked me "how are YOU managing? What support do you have? " Makes me wonder whether mums are simply offered babytraining as a cure or whether they are actually shown how to develop a support network -and how vital this is. Pinky - Original Message - From: Rhonda To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 4:59 PM
[ozmidwifery] March 2002
Dear ANJ Editor I am writing to say that I am more than disappointed with the ANJ (March 2003) uncritically reporting on a research project which gives legitimacy to the idea that we should be working towards increasing the number of very young infants who sleep through the night. Rather ANF as an organisation including maternaland child health professionalsshould have refuted this researchwhich shows a basic lack of understanding of the physiological needs of infantsas well as beingcounter productive to the promotion, support and encouragement of effective or demand breastfeedingand the related physiology and life time health benefits. The ANF should be setting an example for its members and fellow health professional organisations in refuting such poorly structured "research". It is time that ANF reviewed all their publications and activities to ensure that they be consistent and maintain the organisation's espousal support for evidence based programmess such as the Baby Friendly Hospital Initiative in this instance! Yourssincerely Denise Hynd RM, RN, BApSc(Nsg Ed).
Re: [ozmidwifery] research @ uni
There is also the possibilty of showing a lack of understanding of the empowerment of women and midwives with all the external signs of full dilatation, the effects of invasive procedures and attittudes including stopping or interfereing with the birthing process Denise - Original Message - From: Jo Dean Bainbridge To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 1:07 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] research @ uni Jen, I am not sure how helpful this is, but I personally think that asking this question is valid and would cause a few to stop and think. It would certainly go some way to bringing it home that allowing a mother to go by what her body is telling her rather than when the clock or the care provider tells her. I will ask around with some of my academic contacts to see if there is much around. cheers jo Jo Bainbridgefounding member CARES SAwww.cares-sa.org.au[EMAIL PROTECTED]phone: 08 8388 6918birth with trust, faith love... - Original Message - From: Jen Semple To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 7:02 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] research @ uni This semester @ uni we're doing a subject called Research in Healthcare (we share it w/ nursing bioscience students). For 1/2 of our mark for the subject, we have to write a research proposal w/ 2 other students. At this stage, we've thought of a question have begun to do a literature review have hit a brick wall! Basically, we haven't found any existing research on our topic. I know that doesn't neccesarily mean our topic is crap, but I don't know if that means if our topic is feasible or not! Just wondering what you all think... whether the topic's feasible, any article suggestions, or anything else that comes to mind. Here's our question: "Do women need a routine VE to confirm they're fully dialated before they are 'allowed' to begin pushing?" or alternatively "Does performing a routine VE to confirm a women's fully dialated before she's 'allowed' to begin pushing reduce maternal /or fetal outcome?" All of the midwives did a routine VE to confirm a women's fully dialated before she's 'allowed' to begin pushing @ the hospital we did our clinicals in. w/ increasing the risk of ascending infection, discomfort for the woman, the need to validate what the woman's body is telling her, etc... it just seemed really unnecessary. Anyway, it's early days, so if this question won't work, we have plenty of time to do something else. Jen Yahoo! Mobile- Check compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile.
Re: [ozmidwifery] research @ uni
Let's not forget that lovely Michel Odent quote from Jenny (Reference PLEASE) Odent helps me to understand this fully when hesays"women can undilate with one unkind glance So even before you put your fingers near the woman words behaviours .. can interfere with the process of birth Denise - Original Message - From: Nola Aicken To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 4:30 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] research @ uni Jen, I have to agree with Mary's comments. I believe it is very 'institutional' to not 'allow' a woman to push before we do a VE to ascertain if she is fully dilated. Gosh, who are we! Not only are we setting the woman up for intervention, because many women can be fully and then move into that resting phase before pushing, but we are taking away completely their confidence in their own ability to birth. In units like mine where some of the obstetriciansset the time clock for second stage ie one hour for primi, half hour for multi, then Iam certainly averse to jumping in and doing a VE.Surely as midwives we can observe the body language and hear the change in the woman's sounds. After bumper to bumper contractions, transition stuff and you hear those wonderful 'pushing' noises. Whoa, to me we are on a roll. Why would I want to do a VE! As Mary so aptly states there are times that progress does indicate that we need to do a VE, but let's identify the normal and leave well alone. Sometimes yes, primis can be tricky, but time will tell. My unit is very obstetrical, but I rarely do a VE to establish second stage. Women who are regarded as high risk, have induction of labour, epidurals and other interventions are in a different category of course. You can't always rely on their innate ability to labour and birth because of the interventions and therefore cannot recognise the signs of normal progress so easily. Tew (Safer childbirth) may be of help and the WHO guide to normal birth (1996). A great topic toexplore and I wish you luck. Nola - Original Message - From: Jen Semple To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 7:32 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] research @ uni This semester @ uni we're doing a subject called Research in Healthcare (we share it w/ nursing bioscience students). For 1/2 of our mark for the subject, we have to write a research proposal w/ 2 other students. At this stage, we've thought of a question have begun to do a literature review have hit a brick wall! Basically, we haven't found any existing research on our topic. I know that doesn't neccesarily mean our topic is crap, but I don't know if that means if our topic is feasible or not! Just wondering what you all think... whether the topic's feasible, any article suggestions, or anything else that comes to mind. Here's our question: "Do women need a routine VE to confirm they're fully dialated before they are 'allowed' to begin pushing?" or alternatively "Does performing a routine VE to confirm a women's fully dialated before she's 'allowed' to begin pushing reduce maternal /or fetal outcome?" All of the midwives did a routine VE to confirm a women's fully dialated before she's 'allowed' to begin pushing @ the hospital we did our clinicals in. w/ increasing the risk of ascending infection, discomfort for the woman, the need to validate what the woman's body is telling her, etc... it just seemed really unnecessary. Anyway, it's early days, so if this question won't work, we have plenty of time to do something else. Jen Yahoo! Mobile- Check compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile.
[ozmidwifery] WEBSITE SEARCH??
Is there a web site for the WHO guide to normal birth (1996). Denise
Re: [ozmidwifery] failure to sleep through the night!!!
have been craving appl;es - my bodu must know! Re islolation/ performance anxiety -Im doing a toddler workshop today -and again these dear parents are all wanting to know how to make their children - (from about 14 months) "obey". Hopefully they come away more confident about the range of 'normal' . This pressure stuff keeps happening and none of thebaby training helps because even if it "works" (for the parents) at teh time, it gives nothing for later except a "fix it" mentality. Please can you contact me off listRhonda -I am doing a column for PRactical Parenting (YES!!! am slipping in some of this stuff!! real failings and feelings as well as the nice stuff) I would love to "interview" you. Pinky - Original Message - From: Rhonda To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 12:41 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] "failure to sleep through the night"!!! Hi Pinky, Eat lots of apples too they will help to cleanse your system a bit. Hope all goes well for you. What you are saying about the isolation is so very true and it has got to a point where people are too afraid to offer help - A - just in case the Mother feels that you think she is not coping - don't want to offend her. B - Just in case she is in so much need of help that you can't help enough C- To interfere with things may look rude. The compasion and support mothers used to give each other is gone The understanding is not there - it is all very competative (The media has a lot to answer for here) Having the perfectly behaved toddler and a baby that sleep all night and a child who doesn't answer back is all importnant. The normal things like answering back and sibling rivalry have been pulled apart and disected and analised so much that there are so many experts who say don't smack, don't yell, don't be emotional about parenting - Don't molly codle and over cuddle - -They have forgoten to say any Do's. My mother said to me when i rang her absolutely bursting with joy - I had held my 2 week old prem baby for 10 mins (her first cuddle), I was so happy and I said - "I didn't want to put her back."My Mum's reply was, "Oh Now then - you will spoil her!" I was horrified - I was being judged as a bad mother (to spoil my child who was 2 weeks old) Ialready had guilt feeling of having to have her torn from my stomach at 27 weeks because i had failed at carrying her to term and shehad been on ventilators and close to death and was still seriously ill in NICU and then a 10 min cuddle which I didn't want to ever end was going to spoil her. How could I ever pick her up again without wondering if that was going to be too much. Then each time I sat and expressed there was a poster can't remember the exact words - it had a photo of a woman with her baby in a sling and saidhow women in Africa carry their babies on their backs and at the breast all day in slings - their babies hardly ever cry andgrow to be very secure children - How can we help our babies not to cry so much? This poster touched me and I realised at that point that no amount of cuddles could spoil a child. I would look at that and decided then that I would never leave my baby to cry itself to sleep alone. So maybe more women need to be reminded of that simple fact! Regards Rhonda. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, March 15, 2003 17:57:21 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] "failure to sleep through the night"!!! Hi Rhonda yes you are lucky to be away from the chemicals and smog -youve got me thinking - 2 emergency hospital visits in two weeks for allergic reactions to food - I bet my whole system is overloaded -am eating veges and rice til I see an allergy spec next week. I do remember working withmothercraft nurses (actually Karitane nurses as they were called in New Zealand way back then - dont know if NZ still has them)-great help to mums. Guess its another case of economic rationalism gone silly - maybe with the help early mums wouldnt all end up in sleep schools. I just visited my daughters friend in Private hosp with new bub last week and thought how isolated she really was in her flash single room watching TV - notice on the wall announced the times to watch
Re: [ozmidwifery] research @ uni
Mary Thank you for this reference the archive list is wonderful and easy to access Denise - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 4:19 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] research @ uni "Like many others, I try to ensure that my practice is evidence based but research doesn't show much. Declan Devane declares that he is unable to find any research showing the necessity for VEs. Why undertake an unwelcome procedure if the information you are likely to get is not needed to inform your practice or to be necessary for subsequent decision making? " C. Warren "Invaders of Privacy" Midwifery Matters. Issue 81;Summer 99. a very interesting article. I am looking at the radical Midwives website www.radmid.demon.co.uk/index.htm Cheers, MM
Re: [ozmidwifery] A puzzle???
Lieve, I think your clever just for understanding your sons explanation LOL Its been explained to me and I still don't get it! When birth and death come together; How is the women and her family getting on? I have been looking at ethics allot in the past week and my thoughts turn to them often. Anyway,I hope things are going as well as they possibly can . Love Julie'', - Original Message - From: Lieve Huybrechts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 5:55 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] A puzzle??? It changes the symbols every time and the same symbol is on 9,18,27,36,45,54,63,72,91. One of those numbers is always the result :-)) Don't think I am so clever, I needed my son to explain... Lieve On 15-03-2003 04:31, Julie Garratt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry its not mid but its too fun not to share:) Love Julie:) http://mr-31238.mr.valuehost.co.uk/assets/Flash/psychic.swf -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] 'Allowing' to push
Hi all, A women very keen to have a "natural birth"with herfirst baby, brillante labour, full dilationbut the babes head not fully engaged was told to push way before she felt the need to. The outcome was lots of poo (very unpleasant for her and off-putting!)but maybe the reason that the head was high and the Doctor coming in and feeling what she described as a "fat lip!" and off we all went to theatre ): By the time we arrived she was very!!! ready to push but this was ignored as the intervention cascade was in full flood and despite a good FHR a section was preformed. Wisdom here please! what am I missing? Julie. - Original Message - From: Jo Dean Bainbridge To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 8:05 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] 'Allowing' to push Mary said:As for "allowing" What does that mean? The woman will push when she has to and no amount of "not allowing" will stop her. The major concern is for those mothers who are told to push when they don't need to. There really is no way a woman can be told not to push; but the damage that can because when forced to push is hugely ignored. When I had my second baby (first vbac) the hospital midwife said to my Independent midwife "don't you teach your women to push!" Hmm kinda says alot Jo Bainbridgefounding member CARES SAwww.cares-sa.org.au[EMAIL PROTECTED]phone: 08 8388 6918birth with trust, faith love... - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 7:56 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] research @ uni Jen, What a wonderful research question! As a homebirth midwife I do not routinely do V.E's to confirm full dialtion before "allowing" a woman to push. Many primiparous women do not have V.E's at home and progress without harm,to the birth of their babies. The only time I do a V.E in that situation is when the women is saying that it "really hurts" when she pushes.That is often a signaland means that she isn't yet in 2nd stage or that there is a hand lying alongside the head (not proven until birthing). It shouldn't hurt so badly whenin normal 2nd stage.If I suspect a woman is not really in 2nd stge, I ask her to try and breathe through thecontractions to the best of her ability until the head descends some more. Occasionally there is an "anterior lip". As for "allowing" What does that mean? The woman will push when she has to and no amount of "not allowing" will stop her. Multiparous women at home never have a V.E to 'Prove' full dilation. Why would you? Also there is that lovely "red/purple line" that appears. I think that is a really good guide to full dilation, but I don't always see it. In the research question, are you going to differentiate between Primips or multips? I would suggest just using primips. If it is entrenched behaviour or routine, you might not get the numbers in hospitals so think about involving a homebirth or birthcentre practice. Also, if you haven't already,do your literature search in homebirth/midwives magazines. Midwifery today etc. Love to hear how you are going with it and what you decide. MM
Re: [ozmidwifery] attending the birth from a distance?...
Maybe the youngest person ever to communicate OS by mobile:) (good for nothing blokescan bevery helpful when making babies LOL) You two are so cool. love Julie'' - Original Message - From: Tom, Tania and Sam Smallwood To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 9:32 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] attending the birth from a distance?... Just wanted to share a lovely story about a birth I attended last night, where the woman planned to birth in hospital (having a VBAC) after labouring for as long as she could at home, with myself and Wendy, the midwife I work with. This woman's husband was unfortunately not here,as he is travelling overseas for work due home tomorrow. We managed not only to take heaps of photos and video footage (with a fantastic machine with a 'night vision' switch so you can literally see in the dark!), but we managed to get her husband on the phone (oops, forgot you're not supposed to use a moblie in hospitals :)) and he heard his baby boy being born, and take his first breath and letout his first little cry.What an amazing experience for us all, feeling all a bit emotional aboutthewhole thing at the moment, with my husband also out of the country for a few weeks (good for nothing blokes!) Just had to share, Tania ~Go after the thing you most hate, Doing what you most love, Using the skills you have...~
Re: [ozmidwifery] A puzzle???
Julie: if you follow the litle example given ie # =23 then 2+3 = 5 then 23 -5 = 18 do the same for all numbers 20 through 29 they all = 18. Similarly think of a thirty something #: 36 then 3+6 = 9 then 36-9 = 27 and for all of the thirty somthing numbers the answer equals 27. There is a different number for each decade and these numbers all had the same symbol. So unless you just thought of any old number and tried to psych the computer into displaying its symbol without doing the little sum, if you followed the rules the trick worked. marilyn - Original Message - From: Julie Garratt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] A puzzle??? Lieve, I think your clever just for understanding your sons explanation LOL Its been explained to me and I still don't get it! When birth and death come together; How is the women and her family getting on? I have been looking at ethics allot in the past week and my thoughts turn to them often. Anyway,I hope things are going as well as they possibly can . Love Julie'', - Original Message - From: Lieve Huybrechts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 5:55 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] A puzzle??? It changes the symbols every time and the same symbol is on 9,18,27,36,45,54,63,72,91. One of those numbers is always the result :-)) Don't think I am so clever, I needed my son to explain... Lieve On 15-03-2003 04:31, Julie Garratt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry its not mid but its too fun not to share:) Love Julie:) http://mr-31238.mr.valuehost.co.uk/assets/Flash/psychic.swf -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] When birth and death come together
Hoi Julie and all of you, I went to the womans home yesterday evening. All is prepared for the birth. They have a swimmingpool in the livingroom for labor and maybe birth. They decided to keep the baby in the house till the cremation and arranged already a lot of the ceremony. They really want to have it the way they feel is good. They are very calm and ready to welcome the baby. Tomorrow is the expected date, but no signs so far. I admire the way they are handling it. She comes every week to the mothergroup. There are several pregnant mums and they are all supportive for her but also for us. A lot of people are aware of what is going to happen. I will keep you all informed and I am glad to have you for support. I am very trustfull and calm. Warm greetings Lieve When birth and death come together; How is the women and her family getting on? I have been looking at ethics allot in the past week and my thoughts turn to them often. Anyway,I hope things are going as well as they possibly can . Love Julie'', -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] WEBSITE SEARCH??
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] WEBSITE SEARCH?? On 16-03-2003 17:32, Denise Hynd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a web site for the WHO guide to normal birth (1996). Denise http://www.who.int/reproductive-health/publications/MSM_96_24/MSM_96_24_table_of_contents.en.html Greetings Lieve
Re: [ozmidwifery] research @ uni
It amazes me that there is research comparing 2nd hourly VEs to 4th hourly VEs but none on NOT doing VEs compared to doing them.. - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] research @ uni "Like many others, I try to ensure that my practice is evidence based but research doesn't show much. Declan Devane declares that he is unable to find any research showing the necessity for VEs. Why undertake an unwelcome procedure if the information you are likely to get is not needed to inform your practice or to be necessary for subsequent decision making? " C. Warren "Invaders of Privacy" Midwifery Matters. Issue 81;Summer 99. a very interesting article. I am looking at the radical Midwives website www.radmid.demon.co.uk/index.htm Cheers, MM
Re: [ozmidwifery] WEBSITE SEARCH??
Click on the link below: http://www.who.int/reproductive-health/publications/MSM_96_24/MSM_96_24_table_of_contents.en.html - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 2:32 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] WEBSITE SEARCH?? Is there a web site for the WHO guide to normal birth (1996). Denise
Re: [ozmidwifery] March 2002
Woohooo!! Well done Denise! Love Lois - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 4:55 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] March 2002 Dear ANJ Editor I am writing to say that I am more than disappointed with the ANJ (March 2003) uncritically reporting on a research project which gives legitimacy to the idea that we should be working towards increasing the number of very young infants who sleep through the night. Rather ANF as an organisation including maternaland child health professionalsshould have refuted this researchwhich shows a basic lack of understanding of the physiological needs of infantsas well as beingcounter productive to the promotion, support and encouragement of effective or demand breastfeedingand the related physiology and life time health benefits. The ANF should be setting an example for its members and fellow health professional organisations in refuting such poorly structured "research". It is time that ANF reviewed all their publications and activities to ensure that they be consistent and maintain the organisation's espousal support for evidence based programmess such as the Baby Friendly Hospital Initiative in this instance! Yourssincerely Denise Hynd RM, RN, BApSc(Nsg Ed).
Re: [ozmidwifery] Practising Midwife website
In a message dated 16/03/03 12:22:21 PM AUS Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Does anyone have a website address for the Practising Midwife journal? It is mentioned in many other website references but I can't seem to find anything specific to log on to. thanks, MM Ooo yes please, someone!! Yours in reforming midwifery Tina Pettigrew. B Mid Student ACU Melb http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BMidStudentCollective/ " As we trust the flowers to open to new life - So we can trust birth" Harriette Hartigan. ---
[ozmidwifery] Odent article - 'Labouring women are not Marathon runners'
Hello Midwives and wise women... just a request for some assistance pleaseDoes anyone have a copy handy (full text article) of Odent's paper 'Labouring women are not marathon runners' the reference I have is Odent M (1994) Midwifery Today, no 31 Autumn 1994 pp2-24, 43, 51. I would be very grateful :-)) Yours in reforming midwifery Tina Pettigrew. BMid Student ACU Melb. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BMidStudentCollective/
Re: [ozmidwifery] WEBSITE SEARCH??
I am ashamed to say that I have never accessed this document before. It is easy to read and has many good references. It errs on the side of "first, do not interfere unless..." - Original Message - From: Darren Sunn To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] WEBSITE SEARCH?? Click on the link below: http://www.who.int/reproductive-health/publications/MSM_96_24/MSM_96_24_table_of_contents.en.html - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 2:32 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] WEBSITE SEARCH?? Is there a web site for the WHO guide to normal birth (1996). Denise
[ozmidwifery] The Practising Midwife website
The magazine has a website address printed on the bottom of the page as www.thepractisingmidwife.com but I have tried it and it comes up as a zero found on search. I think Deb is right - they do not have the journal acessible on-line, however it would be WONDERFUL if they did. I subscribe to the magazine and in my opionion it is the best of the lot. Here are some email contacts: Group Editor, Louise Prime [EMAIL PROTECTED] Managing Editor, Jane Bowler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perhaps some inquiries and pressure might see this journal made available inon-line? Lois WattisRegistered Midwifewww.birthjourney.com Baby Rock-A-Bye.jpgBEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Wattis;Lois FN:Lois Wattis EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] REV:20030316T040252Z END:VCARD
[ozmidwifery] Good OB
My sister is having her thrid LSCS (sigh) later this year and has recently moved to Brisbane. Does anyone have the name of a good OB (preferably with admitting rights to Mater Mothers? Thanks Megan ** This e-mail, including any attachments sent with it, is confidential and for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). This confidentiality is not waived or lost if you receive it and you are not the intended recipient(s), or if it is transmitted/ received in error. Any unauthorised use, alteration, disclosure, distribution or review of this e-mail is prohibited. It may be subject to a statutory duty of confidentiality if it relates to health service matters. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or if you have received this e-mail in error, you are asked to immediately notify the sender by telephone or by return e-mail. You should also delete this e-mail message and destroy any hard copies produced. ** -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Good OB
My sister has recently moved to brisbane and would like to know the name of a good Ob who preferably has admitting rights to mater mothers. Thanks for any suggestions Megan ** This e-mail, including any attachments sent with it, is confidential and for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). This confidentiality is not waived or lost if you receive it and you are not the intended recipient(s), or if it is transmitted/ received in error. Any unauthorised use, alteration, disclosure, distribution or review of this e-mail is prohibited. It may be subject to a statutory duty of confidentiality if it relates to health service matters. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or if you have received this e-mail in error, you are asked to immediately notify the sender by telephone or by return e-mail. You should also delete this e-mail message and destroy any hard copies produced. ** -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] closure of neonatal intensive care unit
Last week I posted info regarding a rally to protest over the closure of one of Adelaides neonatal intensive care units, well in the afternoon the minister announced that the unit was to remain open. A win for women, children and families. Nice to know that when the people speak, we are listened to.(for a change) Megan -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] midwifery training
Hi all, My name is Jo Hunter and I have been a list subscriber on and off for the last year. I'm actually wanting a bit of advise regarding midwifery training. I'll tell you a bit about myself before moving on. I am the Coordinator of Homebirth Access Sydney (HAS) and have been involved with HAS for 5 years, I'm a homebirth mum with 4 small children, have an AssociateDiploma in Social Science(Child studies) have completed a few small CBE courses and workshops and am currently setting up Independent CBE classes and a Doula service in the Blue Mtns with Natalie Forbes Dash. My real passion and hope for future career is midwifery. I would desperately love to apply and be a successful applicant into the direct entry midwifery course at UTS. My currentsituation with 4 small children at home (only 1 at school) prevents me from applying in the next couple of years, however I'd love to know if there are any correspondence courses thatI could complete in order to put me in good stead for success in applying for the course in the future or that may give me exemptions when I do finally get there. Any ideas Thanks for your help. warmest regards Jo Hunter
