Re: [ozmidwifery] was I need to vent!!! now WYETH???
Well as a MCHN i was certainly not trained by Wyeth. I paid for it myself at great expense. We did have one session from a company rep talking about formula in the context of those mothers who choose to use formula. It was in relation to how to read the nutritional panel on the tin and what to look for. They were under no illusion when they left that al the women in the room were advocates of breast feeding but I found it quite informative none the less and have found it useful in my role as a MCHN when relieving for the shires when the breast feeding rates are often abismal. Just out of interest the rep that attended was not from wyeth. I am interested to know where this idea that they are sponsoring MCHN's comes fromand the inference that MCHN are brainless idiots that cant see through their aadvertising gamesAndreaOn 21/10/2006, at 8:38 AM, jesse/jayne wrote:Really? Is it really happening re Wyeth educating MCH nurses? Aren't there some Vic MCH nurses on this list? I read your email Barb. I complain, and complain, and complaincall hotlines/email, customer service lines, magazines etc. They always have an answer. Nothing changes. Sorry to sound negative. It seems to be as steep a mountain to climb as the whole birth thing. There is a whole network of 'lactavists' out there but I see very little difference (if any??) compared to almost 15 years ago when this was all bought to my attention :( Jayne - Original Message -From: Janet FraserTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Friday, October 20, 2006 10:09 AMSubject: [ozmidwifery] was I need to vent!!! now WYETH???While you are at it, you could complain to the Victorian Office of Children about their decision to keep having their Maternal and child health nurses educated by Wyeth. WTF? My jokes about MCHNs being sponsored by formula companies isn't a joke? Where can I learn more, Barb?Janet
RE: [ozmidwifery] was I need to vent!!! now WYETH???
After today, I am definitely going to complain. As soon as I heard the words uttered to a consumer that its like breastmilk; I just thought that was so wrong and gave the saleswoman daggers. I dont like how they are selling the products and relating it to breastmilk, its misleading. And while the main exercise seems to be promoting toddler formula, they are not shying to chat to those with newborns people were walking away with boxes of the stuff, some 2, 3 even 8 boxes. It breaks my heart that they think this stuff is really what they need to give their babies / toddlers the best. My mind started ticking over all these slogans I would love to see in advertising, inspired by the Suck on This article that was published in Ecologist Magazine in April, but I will bite my tongue. Btw. LOVE the new ABA calendar. Will be sure to get one tomorrow, just divine. Yvette actually brought me over some beautiful ABA posters which now proudly decorate my stand!!! Id love to do more work/promotion with the ABA; I loved the messages on the posters. Just reminded me of how awesome of an organization they are and how wonderful the messages they offer. Keep up the fabulous work guys love it. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Andrea Quanchi Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 5:04 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] was I need to vent!!! now WYETH??? Well as a MCHN i was certainly not trained by Wyeth. I paid for it myself at great expense. We did have one session from a company rep talking about formula in the context of those mothers who choose to use formula. It was in relation to how to read the nutritional panel on the tin and what to look for. They were under no illusion when they left that al the women in the room were advocates of breast feeding but I found it quite informative none the less and have found it useful in my role as a MCHN when relieving for the shires when the breast feeding rates are often abismal. Just out of interest the rep that attended was not from wyeth. I am interested to know where this idea that they are sponsoring MCHN's comes from and the inference that MCHN are brainless idiots that cant see through their aadvertising games Andrea On 21/10/2006, at 8:38 AM, jesse/jayne wrote: Really? Is it really happening re Wyeth educating MCH nurses? Aren't there some Vic MCH nurses on this list? I read your email Barb. I complain, and complain, and complaincall hotlines/email, customer service lines, magazines etc. They always have an answer. Nothing changes. Sorry to sound negative. It seems to be as steep a mountain to climb as the whole birth thing. There is a whole network of 'lactavists' out there but I see very little difference (if any??) compared to almost 15 years ago when this was all bought to my attention :( Jayne - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 10:09 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] was I need to vent!!! now WYETH??? While you are at it, you could complain to the Victorian Office of Children about their decision to keep having their Maternal and child health nurses educated by Wyeth. WTF? My jokes about MCHNs being sponsored by formula companies isn't a joke? Where can I learn more, Barb? Janet
RE: [ozmidwifery] was I need to vent!!! now WYETH???
Many doctors have been saying for many years that they are not swayed by pharmaceuticals advertising/giveaways/education sponsorhips. If there is not a substantial financial benefit to these companies why do they use these tactics? Because they are in business and wouldnt spend the money if they didnt see a business benefit to them. Not so long ago these companies used to give hospitals the ABM (artificial baby milk) free why? Not because they were philanthropists but because they knew that parents would go out and buy what they saw in the hospital (because that MUST be best) SO they knew this would boost their business market and hence profit. These companies are clever marketers and they know how to put their brand name in front of us education sessions are an important advertising strategy. They are a subtle way to get around the WHO Code principles. Who pays for the education if a manufacturer of artificial baby milk is sponsoring the education? Parents! I believe we, personally, and our employers need to be responsible for our education not manufacturers of artificial baby milk and certainly not parents. Instead of sponsoring education programmes for health professionals why dont they lower the price to parents who have made the choice to artificially feed? Or, why dont they send the money anonymously for the use of education of health professionals involved in infant feeding? Because this is an ADVERTISING tactic (and probably tax deductible). Why not find an independent dietician or other health professional to educate us on the pros and cons of the various brands? Why not ask our hospitals dietician to research these products and give us an education session? I believe that health professionals need to stand up and say NO to being educated by any particular ABM/pharmaceutical manufacturer. Many of us dont believe doctors should be wined, dined and supported in any monetary form by pharmaceutical companies why would we think that educational events are any different? Pharmaceutical companies use various tactics dependent on the market or country they are in and what latitude they are allowed. We can already see the limits being pushed by a particular company with their toddler milk advertising they are beginning to sneak under the radar and we must once again become vigilant! Sponsored education sessions may seem innocent in themselves but we do need to remember that breastmilk lacks the backing money that these companies can afford. This lack is the reason why the WHO Code was initiated in the first place and why there is a need to be vigilant. Shaughn
[ozmidwifery] Attached Parents - on Sixty Minutes
http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/sixtyminutes/stories/2006_10_22/story_1798.asp Interested to see how biased this story is going to be. Helen
Re: [ozmidwifery] was I need to vent!!! now WYETH???
Now, Shaughn, You'll be writing all that to the Victorian Department of Human Services, won't you? Well said! Barb - Original Message - From: Shaughn Leach To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 7:26 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] was I need to vent!!! now WYETH??? Many doctors have been saying for many years that they are not swayed by pharmaceuticals advertising/giveaways/education sponsorhips. If there is not a substantial financial benefit to these companies why do they use these tactics? Because they are in business and wouldnt spend the money if they didnt see a business benefit to them. Not so long ago these companies used to give hospitals the ABM (artificial baby milk) free why? Not because they were philanthropists but because they knew that parents would go out and buy what they saw in the hospital (because that MUST be best) SO they knew this would boost their business market and hence profit. These companies are clever marketers and they know how to put their brand name in front of us education sessions are an important advertising strategy. They are a subtle way to get around the WHO Code principles. Who pays for the education if a manufacturer of artificial baby milk is sponsoring the education? Parents! I believe we, personally, and our employers need to be responsible for our education not manufacturers of artificial baby milk and certainly not parents. Instead of sponsoring education programmes for health professionals why dont they lower the price to parents who have made the choice to artificially feed? Or, why dont they send the money anonymously for the use of education of health professionals involved in infant feeding? Because this is an ADVERTISING tactic (and probably tax deductible). Why not find an independent dietician or other health professional to educate us on the pros and cons of the various brands? Why not ask our hospitals dietician to research these products and give us an education session? I believe that health professionals need to stand up and say NO to being educated by any particular ABM/pharmaceutical manufacturer. Many of us dont believe doctors should be wined, dined and supported in any monetary form by pharmaceutical companies why would we think that educational events are any different? Pharmaceutical companies use various tactics dependent on the market or country they are in and what latitude they are allowed. We can already see the limits being pushed by a particular company with their toddler milk advertising they are beginning to sneak under the radar and we must once again become vigilant! Sponsored education sessions may seem innocent in themselves but we do need to remember that breastmilk lacks the backing money that these companies can afford. This lack is the reason why the WHO Code was initiated in the first place and why there is a need to be vigilant. Shaughn
Re: [ozmidwifery] was I need to vent!!! now WYETH???
Hi, Yes, complain, please! Send it to APMAIF. The money spent on promotion is unbelievable. I was daydreaming about putting an ad in "Australian Doctor" last week. I was thinking of a beautiful breastfeeding baby with the words "Breastfeeding. No false advertsing necesary" Until I found out the rates. $16 500 per page. Unbelievable. And, Kelly, and others thanks for your support of the Australian Breastfeeding Association. All money goes into supporting and promoting breastfeeding. Barb - Original Message - From: Kelly @ BellyBelly To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 7:15 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] was I need to vent!!! now WYETH??? After today, I am definitely going to complain. As soon as I heard the words uttered to a consumer that its like breastmilk; I just thought that was so wrong and gave the saleswoman daggers. I dont like how they are selling the products and relating it to breastmilk, its misleading. And while the main exercise seems to be promoting toddler formula, they are not shying to chat to those with newborns people were walking away with boxes of the stuff, some 2, 3 even 8 boxes. It breaks my heart that they think this stuff is really what they need to give their babies / toddlers the best. My mind started ticking over all these slogans I would love to see in advertising, inspired by the Suck on This article that was published in Ecologist Magazine in April, but I will bite my tongue. Btw. LOVE the new ABA calendar. Will be sure to get one tomorrow, just divine. Yvette actually brought me over some beautiful ABA posters which now proudly decorate my stand!!! Id love to do more work/promotion with the ABA; I loved the messages on the posters. Just reminded me of how awesome of an organization they are and how wonderful the messages they offer. Keep up the fabulous work guys love it. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Andrea QuanchiSent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 5:04 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] was I need to vent!!! now WYETH??? Well as a MCHN i was certainly not trained by Wyeth. I paid for it myself at great expense. We did have one session from a company rep talking about formula in the context of those mothers who choose to use formula. It was in relation to how to read the nutritional panel on the tin and what to look for. They were under no illusion when they left that al the women in the room were advocates of breast feeding but I found it quite informative none the less and have found it useful in my role as a MCHN when relieving for the shires when the breast feeding rates are often abismal. Just out of interest the rep that attended was not from wyeth. I am interested to know where this idea that they are sponsoring MCHN's comes from and the inference that MCHN are brainless idiots that cant see through their aadvertising games Andrea On 21/10/2006, at 8:38 AM, jesse/jayne wrote: Really? Is it really happening re Wyeth educating MCH nurses? Aren't there some Vic MCH nurses on this list? I read your email Barb. I complain, and complain, and complaincall hotlines/email, customer service lines, magazines etc. They always have an answer. Nothing changes. Sorry to sound negative. It seems to be as steep a mountain to climb as the whole birth thing. There is a whole network of 'lactavists' out there but I see very little difference (if any??) compared to almost 15 years ago when this was all bought to my attention :( Jayne - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 10:09 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] was I need to vent!!! now WYETH??? While you are at it, you could complain to the Victorian Office of Children about their decision to keep having their Maternal and child health nurses educated by Wyeth. WTF? My jokes about MCHNs being sponsored by formula companies isn't a joke? Where can I learn more, Barb? Janet
RE: [ozmidwifery] was I need to vent!!! now WYETH???
Barb do you have an address and a copy of the program? My email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Shaughn From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Barbara Glare Chris Bright Sent: Saturday, 21 October 2006 7:33 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] was I need to vent!!! now WYETH??? Now, Shaughn, You'll be writing all that to the Victorian Department of Human Services, won't you? Well said! Barb - Original Message - From: Shaughn Leach To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 7:26 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] was I need to vent!!! now WYETH??? Many doctors have been saying for many years that they are not swayed by pharmaceuticals advertising/giveaways/education sponsorhips. If there is not a substantial financial benefit to these companies why do they use these tactics? Because they are in business and wouldnt spend the money if they didnt see a business benefit to them. Not so long ago these companies used to give hospitals the ABM (artificial baby milk) free why? Not because they were philanthropists but because they knew that parents would go out and buy what they saw in the hospital (because that MUST be best) SO they knew this would boost their business market and hence profit. These companies are clever marketers and they know how to put their brand name in front of us education sessions are an important advertising strategy. They are a subtle way to get around the WHO Code principles. Who pays for the education if a manufacturer of artificial baby milk is sponsoring the education? Parents! I believe we, personally, and our employers need to be responsible for our education not manufacturers of artificial baby milk and certainly not parents. Instead of sponsoring education programmes for health professionals why dont they lower the price to parents who have made the choice to artificially feed? Or, why dont they send the money anonymously for the use of education of health professionals involved in infant feeding? Because this is an ADVERTISING tactic (and probably tax deductible). Why not find an independent dietician or other health professional to educate us on the pros and cons of the various brands? Why not ask our hospitals dietician to research these products and give us an education session? I believe that health professionals need to stand up and say NO to being educated by any particular ABM/pharmaceutical manufacturer. Many of us dont believe doctors should be wined, dined and supported in any monetary form by pharmaceutical companies why would we think that educational events are any different? Pharmaceutical companies use various tactics dependent on the market or country they are in and what latitude they are allowed. We can already see the limits being pushed by a particular company with their toddler milk advertising they are beginning to sneak under the radar and we must once again become vigilant! Sponsored education sessions may seem innocent in themselves but we do need to remember that breastmilk lacks the backing money that these companies can afford. This lack is the reason why the WHO Code was initiated in the first place and why there is a need to be vigilant. Shaughn
[ozmidwifery] hep c
Can anyone give me the rationale why an otherwise healthy woman with hep c shouldnt birth in water? Kathy
Re: [ozmidwifery] was I need to vent!!! now WYETH???
While you are at it, you could complain to the Victorian Office of Children about their decision to keep having their Maternal and child health nurses educated by Wyeth. WTF? My jokes about MCHNs being sponsored by formula companies isn't a joke? Where can I learn more, Barb? Janet __ NOD32 1.1821 (20061021) Information __This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com
[ozmidwifery] Do Doulas need insurance?
I have been asked this by a couple who would like me to be their doula at their birth. I said that I consider myself as 'birth support' and could be a friend, relative or even a midwife off duty I suppose...? Does anyone know anymore about insurance and doulas? As a Naturopath, I have Medical Malpractise Public/Products liability - which also covers me for my CBE work. Kristin Sell ANYTHING for $10 or less at tradingpost.com.au -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Do Doulas need insurance?
Hi Kristin, Ive been working as a doula for 5 years now. Doulas are not medically trained and do not give advise but rather present a list of options so that the birthing woman can make a truly informed decision herself, therefore insurance is not necessary. The doulas role is to physically and emotionally support the birthing woman and her family. In terms of advocating, it is always ideal for the woman to advocate for herself. So if things are suggested that are against her wishes, posing the question back to the woman or reminding her of what is written on her birth plan I cant see that any of this would require insurance. Warn regards Jo Hunter From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Kristin Beckedahl Sent: Sunday, 22 October 2006 10:29 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Do Doulas need insurance? I have been asked this by a couple who would like me to be their doula at their birth. I said that I consider myself as 'birth support' and could be a friend, relative or even a midwife off duty I suppose...? Does anyone know anymore about insurance and doulas? As a Naturopath, I have Medical Malpractise Public/Products liability - which also covers me for my CBE work. Kristin Sell ANYTHING for $10 or less at tradingpost.com.au -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Do Doulas need insurance?
I would be cautious of a couple asking about insurance. Aren't they prepared to be responsible for their decisions, do they not understand a doulas role? -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of joSent: Sunday, 22 October 2006 10:50 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Do Doulas need insurance? Hi Kristin, Ive been working as a doula for 5 years now. Doulas are not medically trained and do not give advise but rather present a list of options so that the birthing woman can make a truly informed decision herself, therefore insurance is not necessary. The doulas role is to physically and emotionally support the birthing woman and her family. In terms of advocating, it is always ideal for the woman to advocate for herself. So if things are suggested that are against her wishes, posing the question back to the woman or reminding her of what is written on her birth plan I cant see that any of this would require insurance. Warn regards Jo Hunter From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Kristin BeckedahlSent: Sunday, 22 October 2006 10:29 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Do Doulas need insurance? I have been asked this by a couple who would like me to be their doula at their birth. I said that I consider myself as 'birth support' and could be a friend, relative or even a midwife off duty I suppose...? Does anyone know anymore about insurance and doulas? As a Naturopath, I have Medical Malpractise Public/Products liability - which also covers me for my CBE work. Kristin Sell ANYTHING for $10 or less at tradingpost.com.au -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Rest phase before 2nd stage
I know this was recently discussed on the list - but I was wondering how long you lovely midwives haveseen this occur for within a natural labour? I remembermine lasting about 10mins (enough time to get out of the car - nota great place to do transition! - and into BC) What is considered too long? 2 hours? What are the 'typical time limits' - when would risk factors be considered? Thanks, Kristin Research and compare new cars side by side at carpoint.com.au -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
