Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On 2010-12-14 05:58, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Pd doesn't really have classes like OOP (i.e. no inheritance), so I as a matter of fact Pd implements a simple OOP system in C (including rudimentary inheritance). think it can be confusing to use that term. so i think that we should use the term People have been saying objects for a long time with Pd and Max. which doesn't make it any better. people have been saying objects for a long time in OOP, and you could use this very definition for Pd/Max like objects as well: it's the little rectangle things in your Pd-patch. iirc, this has all been discussed to the end, and since then the term objectclass has been pretty much established for what matju refers to as class right now. fgmasdr IOhannes smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] msd-editor persistence question
Cheers for that Frank. Ok next question... Jb On 13 December 2010 20:07, Frank Barknecht f...@footils.org wrote: On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 05:53:25PM +, J bz wrote: Most immediate is how do I save the structure I have created as a pd patch? I'm aware I can save the DS as a txt file but does that mean that I have to go through the editor everytime I want to use the structure? If you choose the msd-option to save your settings, then everything is saved into a textfile as normal Pd messages, which you can directly feed to [msd2d] or [msd3d], so you don't need to go through the editor anymore. Ciao -- Frank BarknechtDo You RjDj.me? _ __footils.org__ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] pmpd maintainer; WAS Re: libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
hello Yves, i feel a bit concerned because you mention pmpd. I don't understand the problem about hans being pmpd maintainer. i can't find anything saying that a maintainer should be the author of a lib. the pmpd lib distributed with pd-extended clearly specify that's i'm the author of this lib. who's using other people work? well, there is a lot of answers to this question. -pd user (and developer) are using miller work -pd-extended user are using hans work -pmpd user are using my work -i'm using pmpd users to promote my work -i'm using hans work to promote pmpd -i'm using miller (and other) work everyday -hans is using pmpd to have more happy pd-extended user -etc lot's of people are using other people work. i'm using miller, hans and pd users lot's more than hans is using me. This is some short extract of the pmpd licence : 1. You may copy and distribute verbatim copies of the Program's source code as you receive it [...] 2. You may modify your copy or copies of the Program or any portion of it, thus forming a work based on the Program, and copy and distribute such modifications or work under the terms of Section 1 above [...] 3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, under Section 2 [...]) Reading it, you'll understand that anyone could be pmpd maintainer without other authorisation. Cyrille Le 14/12/2010 05:45, ydego...@gmail.com a écrit : you maintain unauthorized ( free version, if free ever meant anything ) and pmpd ? wow, if that's not using other people's work, i dunno what fresh hell is this... very good takeover, very good semester result, you can apply for the employee of the month ydego...@gmail.com wrote: that's really crazy what you did here : http://puredata.info/community/projects/software/unauthorized sorry i haven't seen any recent case of exploitation that reaches that level respect! sevy ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] msd structures and force
Hi all, I have created a 2d grid in msd and I have a question regarding the use of force... I'm going to have to mix my metaphors here I think: Is it possible to send force so it acts almost like in layers so that, say, I have my grid; ._._._. |._._._.| |._._._.| |._._._.| which is fixed. I would then like to add a ball (for want of a better descriptor) which can travel around the grid by being 'blown' by an overall x,y type force (which I already know msd has/can do). On top of this I would like the separate masses and links to be capable of speeding up and slowing the 'ball' as it travels around the space. Pinball on train-tracks sort of thing (how's that for a simile:) Is this even possible and if so how do I go about it? Also, what's the best way of doing the grid? At the moment I have one version where all the masses are fixed and another where just the corners are fixed. Many thanks in advance, Julian ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] M audio pre mobile crashes pd
Hello list, I'm working on a project with a snow leopard mac and pd 0.41.4, I have attached a card m audio mobile pre, but when the setpoints to be the pd audio hardware this fall, before I had no these problems is the first time, even in ubuntu could do it. This happens several times, usually if I have the x11 open ... i must open pd, setting the card and open the patch, if I try to double click usually fails. Will this fixed in the latest version? any experience? Best regards José -- http://arselectronicachile.blogspot.com http://comunicacionnativa.blogspot.com/ http://www.myspace.com/santorcuato ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Plugin for 0.43 to have a gtk-looking open dialog
Original Message Subject: Re: [PD] Plugin for 0.43 to have a gtk-looking open dialog From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at To: Lorenzo Sutton lsut...@libero.it CC: Pd-list@iem.at Date: 12/14/2010 12:41 AM On Mon, 2010-12-13 at 17:12 +0100, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: I eventually had a look into the GUI plug-in stuff and came up with this. It uses a zenity-inspired gtk binary to make the dialogue (not particularly finesse, but easier thank tcl/gtk). Source and binary as well as the tcl plugin here: http://puredata.info/Members/lorenzosu/gtk-open-plugin/gtk-open-plugin That's great! So much better than the crappy Tcl/Tk open panel. It would be great to have the save panel too. I added code so that the plugin finds pd_gtk_open in the searchpath, that's attached. I also think an install target for the Makefile would make it really easy to install: Hey thanks for that. I already have the binary for the save dialog, I just have to figure out how to make the plug-in. install: install -d ~/pd-externals/ install -p -m644 gtkopen-plugin.tcl ~/pd-externals/ install -p -m755 $(PROGRAM) ~/pd-externals/ Ok.. but I think someone was raising the issue of a ~/pd-externals dir being created. Anyway it does make sense to distribute the plug-in If you want to publicize this, you could add it to the GUI Plugins section of the new download page: http://puredata.info/community/projects/software/ http://puredata.info/docs/sitedocs/AddingYourProjectToDownloads I'll do that as soon as I have time, maybe once the save is done... An open without a matching save seems a bit strange atm :) Lorenzo .hc ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 09:12 +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: On 2010-12-14 05:58, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Pd doesn't really have classes like OOP (i.e. no inheritance), so I as a matter of fact Pd implements a simple OOP system in C (including rudimentary inheritance). think it can be confusing to use that term. so i think that we should use the term People have been saying objects for a long time with Pd and Max. which doesn't make it any better. people have been saying objects for a long time in OOP, and you could use this very definition for Pd/Max like objects as well: it's the little rectangle things in your Pd-patch. iirc, this has all been discussed to the end, and since then the term objectclass has been pretty much established for what matju refers to as class right now. Yeah, let's stick with 'object class' when describing the functionality and let's call instances of an object class 'objects'. my 2¢. Roman ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-dev] pd-pidip into Debian
On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 19:38:27 +0100, ydego...@free.fr ydego...@gmail.com wrote: yeh classical ... after having been called 'fascist' here on this list or someone making useless shit, etc i'm the one offending the others... when did this happen exactly? do you have a link? the only reference I find is at http://tinyurl.com/372ktwu, and in my interpretation, it was a remark coded in the programming language called humour (notice the emoticon). if you want to read it literally and look for conflict, that's your choice. about the useless shit, I didn't find any reference for that exact string. the string useless has too many results for me to use my time sorting through these. but strangely, if you read the comments from people in the last days (after you removed your code from svn), I don't recall anyone calling it useless. In fact they called your stuff quite useful and great code (I'm quoting from memory), including people that you have no problems attacking and insulting gratuitously. I guess that's why they still have the pacience to endure your immature rants (disguised as punk libertarian political remarks), because if your objects weren't of value to anyone you would be ignored. if you have so much energy wanting to come out, I would suggest some sport, or a boxing bag. you should feel better after an intense training. it's healthier for you, and for us as well. or keep posting comments, but please with whole sentences, and with logical (and valid) arguments. everyone would be interested in that, and something might come out from that. João Pais ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] pd mini-conference in Dublin
Hi all, The Department of Music is pleased to announce a Pure Data mini-Conference taking place 4-5 March 2011 in House 5, Trinity College Dublin. It will feature lectures, papers, workshops and an evening of pure data music performed live. Please submit abstracts/proposals by email to richard.duckwo...@tcd.ie. Deadline is January 25th, 2011 - with notification a week later. Information and schedule of events will be posted on this blog: http://bluespetroleum.blogspot.com Rich Duckworth Lecturer in Music Technology Department of Music House 5 Trinity College Dublin 2 Ireland Tel 353 1 896 1500 It's the most devastating moment in a young mans life, when he quite reasonably says to himself, I shall never play The Dane!___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Objects vs Classes (was: libraries in Pd-extended 0.43)
On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Pd doesn't really have classes like OOP (i.e. no inheritance), Inheritance is not an essential feature of OOP, if you consider how much this feature varies a lot from one OOP language to another, moreso than other features. The more essential features of OOP are data-abstraction, encapsulation, polymorphism, modularity, ... and in nearly all lists of typical OOP features, one is missing (but essential in practice) : the idea that multiple objects share a single class definition (that is, methods belong to classes, not directly to objects). Pd's abstractions are precisely that : one patch is a class, and each use of that patch as an objectbox in any another patch is an object. In short, there's a lot that programming languages have in common, that are typical OOP features, without having to even speak about inheritance. so I think it can be confusing to use that term. Confusing with what ? What's confusing is that you guys use one word for two things that are normally given two different names in every other language : object vs class in most cases, object vs prototype in some others, instance vs class, etc. The confusion comes from people who insist on using the word object to mean class. People have been saying objects for a long time with Pd and Max. In itself, that doesn't make it a good idea. The Pd/Max mentality of we're s completely different from everything else ! doesn't serve much more than egos. In the end, problem-solving in Pd/Max is fundamentally similar to that of any other computer programming (in the strategies, not the tactics), so, any kind of isolationism is a manner of making it unnecessarily harder for other programmers to understand us, and vice-versa. If we adopted standard vocabulary, we could focus on real differences between Pd/Max and other languages, instead of terminology. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On Dec 14, 2010, at 3:12 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: On 2010-12-14 05:58, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Pd doesn't really have classes like OOP (i.e. no inheritance), so I as a matter of fact Pd implements a simple OOP system in C (including rudimentary inheritance). think it can be confusing to use that term. so i think that we should use the term People have been saying objects for a long time with Pd and Max. which doesn't make it any better. people have been saying objects for a long time in OOP, and you could use this very definition for Pd/Max like objects as well: it's the little rectangle things in your Pd-patch. iirc, this has all been discussed to the end, and since then the term objectclass has been pretty much established for what matju refers to as class right now. objectclass works for me, but I don't think class alone makes sense for Pd. Pd could be implemented in Java or BASIC in SmallTalk, and neither would not be an object-oriented programming language. ;) But yes, there are some similarities between Pd and OO. .hc If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of everyone, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it.- Thomas Jefferson ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Plugin for 0.43 to have a gtk-looking open dialog
On Dec 14, 2010, at 6:05 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: Original Message Subject: Re: [PD] Plugin for 0.43 to have a gtk-looking open dialog From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at To: Lorenzo Sutton lsut...@libero.it CC: Pd-list@iem.at Date: 12/14/2010 12:41 AM On Mon, 2010-12-13 at 17:12 +0100, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: I eventually had a look into the GUI plug-in stuff and came up with this. It uses a zenity-inspired gtk binary to make the dialogue (not particularly finesse, but easier thank tcl/gtk). Source and binary as well as the tcl plugin here: http://puredata.info/Members/lorenzosu/gtk-open-plugin/gtk-open-plugin That's great! So much better than the crappy Tcl/Tk open panel. It would be great to have the save panel too. I added code so that the plugin finds pd_gtk_open in the searchpath, that's attached. I also think an install target for the Makefile would make it really easy to install: Hey thanks for that. I already have the binary for the save dialog, I just have to figure out how to make the plug-in. Now that I spend a couple hours with the GTK open panel, it felt so natural I was shocked when I removed the plugin. Looking forward to the save panel! install: install -d ~/pd-externals/ install -p -m644 gtkopen-plugin.tcl ~/pd-externals/ install -p -m755 $(PROGRAM) ~/pd-externals/ Ok.. but I think someone was raising the issue of a ~/pd-externals dir being created. Anyway it does make sense to distribute the plug-in I believe the objection you mention is that Pd-extended automatically creates ~/pd-externals. ~/pd-externals is the standard user-install path for Pd-vanilla and Pd-extended. No sudo or root access needed. .hc If you want to publicize this, you could add it to the GUI Plugins section of the new download page: http://puredata.info/community/projects/software/ http://puredata.info/docs/sitedocs/AddingYourProjectToDownloads I'll do that as soon as I have time, maybe once the save is done... An open without a matching save seems a bit strange atm :) Lorenzo .hc You can't steal a gift. Bird gave the world his music, and if you can hear it, you can have it. - Dizzy Gillespie ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] M audio pre mobile crashes pd
For 10.6, I think you need the updated portaudio code that's in Pd- extended 0.42.5. .hc On Dec 14, 2010, at 5:40 AM, Jose Luis Santorcuato wrote: Hello list, I'm working on a project with a snow leopard mac and pd 0.41.4, I have attached a card m audio mobile pre, but when the setpoints to be the pd audio hardware this fall, before I had no these problems is the first time, even in ubuntu could do it. This happens several times, usually if I have the x11 open ... i must open pd, setting the card and open the patch, if I try to double click usually fails. Will this fixed in the latest version? any experience? Best regards José -- http://arselectronicachile.blogspot.com http://comunicacionnativa.blogspot.com/ http://www.myspace.com/santorcuato ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list [W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity.-John Gilmore ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Object vs Class (was: libraries in Pd-extended 0.43)
On Tue, 14 Dec 2010, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: On 2010-12-14 05:58, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Pd doesn't really have classes like OOP (i.e. no inheritance), so I as a matter of fact Pd implements a simple OOP system in C (including rudimentary inheritance). This rudimentary inheritance, I suppose, is a way of looking at the way the C structs are nested : t_pd is in t_gobj, t_gobj is in t_object, t_object is in t_iemgui, t_iemgui is in t_bng, ... However, Pd doesn't implement any inheritance of methods, so I wouldn't say that it supports inheritance. I found this to not be an obstacle to calling Pd an OOP language (see my reply to Hans). iirc, this has all been discussed to the end, and since then the term objectclass has been pretty much established for what matju refers to as class right now. Either object class (or objectclass) or class can do, as long as object is synonymous with instance, and there's a separate word meaning class in one way or another. objectclass was proposed as a compromise to be more readily accepted by current pd users, but in the end, even the shorthand class ought to be understood by everybody. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Plugin for 0.43 to have a gtk-looking open dialog
On 2010-12-14 15:31, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: I believe the objection you mention is that Pd-extended automatically creates ~/pd-externals. ~/pd-externals is the standard user-install path for Pd-vanilla and Pd-extended. since i think that lorenzo relates to me raising the issues, i can confirm that i am indeed concerned with pd-extended automatically creating the ~/pd-externals folder. i don't mind so much if the ~/pd-externals folder is searched automatically, but why would anybody want to have an empty folder in their home-directory. No sudo or root access needed. people who are able to copy a file from ~/Downloads/superduper into ~/pd-externals can probably be expected to be able to create a ~/pd-externals directory. for externals that come with an installation routine (for users who are not willing to copy files around manually), this can create the directory as well. ghmsdft IOhannes smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [PD-announce] NYC Patching Circle this Thursday 12/16, 6-10pm
Join Miller Puckette, Scott Fitzgerald and I for this month's Patching Circle. Joe Deken of New Blankets is bringing two Microsoft Kinect 3D cameras, so we'll be hacking with those to see what we can get going. We'll be at Eyebeam this Thursday from 6-10pm, please RSVP to i...@eyebeam.org http://eyebeam.org/events/nyc-patching-circle We spend enough time alone staring at our computers; we are proposing to work together. So often issues that arise when working can be solved with a quick two minute discussion that would take hours to solve alone. We have Dorkbot to see people's work, we have Share where anyone can play, we have workshops and universities to learn from. This is a meeting where we all can come to work. This is an informal gathering of patching and patchers (Pd, Max/MSP/ Jitter, and even , Eyesweb, Labview, etc.). Beginners and Experienced welcome. Open to everyone, students, the public, etc. Work on personal projects, professional projects, school projects, ask for help, help others, or just patch quietly to yourself, in a room full of other people patching patches and helping other people patch. Every third Thursday of the month, so this Thursday 6-10pm Free! Directions -- Patching Circle, http://puredata.info/community/NYCPatchingCircle Eyebeam, http://eyebeam.org/ Thursday, Dec 16th, 6-10pm 540 W. 21st Street Manhattan Tel. 212.937.6580 (Eyebeam) or 718.360.4872 (Hans) RSVP to i...@eyebeam.org ___ Pd-announce mailing list pd-annou...@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 05:01 +0100, ydego...@gmail.com wrote: that's really crazy what you did here : http://puredata.info/community/projects/software/unauthorized sorry i haven't seen any recent case of exploitation that reaches that level respect! sevy I thought you might want to promote your software. Its editable, change it if you want. .hc ok after all these useless discussions, i'll stick to my first and initial decision, not use pd-extended anymore, pure:dyne packages are more complete anyway. but i want my stuff to be taken out of pd-extended, otherwise it just shows your lack of respect to the authors, and i'm bored to speak to lawyers instead of honest people. ciao, sevy ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-dev] pd-pidip into Debian
On Tue, 14 Dec 2010, João Pais wrote: On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 19:38:27 +0100, ydego...@free.fr ydego...@gmail.com wrote: after having been called 'fascist' here on this list or someone making useless shit, etc i'm the one offending the others... when did this happen exactly? do you have a link? When one says «pick your fights» as an advice, it means «choose wisely the fights that are worth fighting», but to Degoyon it means «provoke any fight, any time». To some, adversity is its own reward ; to others, adversity is just a necessary step to reach a goal (and that goal is not «to create adversity»). or keep posting comments, but please with whole sentences, and with logical (and valid) arguments. everyone would be interested in that, and something might come out from that. After 8 years of reading Degoyon, that would be something new. It's sad. If only... ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Plugin for 0.43 to have a gtk-looking open dialog
IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: On 2010-12-14 15:31, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: I believe the objection you mention is that Pd-extended automatically creates ~/pd-externals. ~/pd-externals is the standard user-install path for Pd-vanilla and Pd-extended. I would second the suggestion someone made of a .pd-extended (with dot) folder in the user's home as that seems quite standard for many linux apps... Of course I'm not sure how much this would break existing libraries which rely on the pd-extended folder. Lorenzo. since i think that lorenzo relates to me raising the issues, i can confirm that i am indeed concerned with pd-extended automatically creating the ~/pd-externals folder. i don't mind so much if the ~/pd-externals folder is searched automatically, but why would anybody want to have an empty folder in their home-directory. No sudo or root access needed. people who are able to copy a file from ~/Downloads/superduper into ~/pd-externals can probably be expected to be able to create a ~/pd-externals directory. for externals that come with an installation routine (for users who are not willing to copy files around manually), this can create the directory as well. ghmsdft IOhannes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
ydego...@gmail.com wrote: Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 05:01 +0100, ydego...@gmail.com wrote: that's really crazy what you did here : http://puredata.info/community/projects/software/unauthorized sorry i haven't seen any recent case of exploitation that reaches that level respect! sevy I thought you might want to promote your software. Its editable, change it if you want. .hc ok after all these useless discussions, i'll stick to my first and initial decision, not use pd-extended anymore, pure:dyne packages are more complete anyway. but i want my stuff to be taken out of pd-extended, otherwise it just shows your lack of respect to the authors, and i'm bored to speak to lawyers instead of honest people. ciao, sevy btw, yo paso de contestar a los que han aprendido la psicologia en classes de matematica... ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
If it were up to me, we'd keep all of Sevy's stuff in Pd-extended. The licenses Sevy offers conflict with the licenses of much of the software it borrows from (for example EffecTV) so they are invalid anyway. But I understand that this may not sit ethically with others so my second suggestion is, for the benefit of the Pd community, to keep all of Sevy's stuff that was released under GPL in whatever version it existed in at that point. I believe this is already Han's plan and I support it. For me, I'm going to use Sevy's stuff as if it is GPL. For example, I'm looking forward to the military contract I am expecting of torturing people, and at that point I think I'll make excellent use of PiDiP. I'll let Sevy sue me then. I don't buy the argument that the Sevy's stuff should be removed out of respect for the author, as this argument conflicts with a more compelling argument of respect for the community, for free software, and for the GPL license. It is weird and uncomfortable to me that one of our own would impose restrictions on the use of their software that even the infamous Microsoft wouldn't consider. I can't support such a position. -John On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 8:53 AM, ydego...@gmail.com ydego...@gmail.comwrote: i want my stuff to be taken out of pd-extended ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: You're right. I'm an object-o-phile. But do you find Related Objects troubling-- should it be Related Classes? well... yes In a lot of situations you need both. For something like canvas_class it doesn't make much sense to put all the details of what the class does in one giant help file Giant help files aren't much of a problem, but it would be more appropriate to introduce method-categories (as in Smalltalk) in order to avoid the mandatory quasi-alphabetical sorting. (GF sorts them like : bang float grid symbol pointer list, then all other names in alphabetical order, then any at the very end.) for instance, to follow your GFDP model, you'd have one see also section that includes [inlet] (which relates to [pd] but not to [table]) The t_class structure of [pd]/[table]/array/abstractions/patches is especially hairy. If a single t_class acts like it's many classes at once, it may make sense to document it as several classes anyway. However, pd will still refer you to a single help file for all those cases (except abstractions). The way a single t_class may act like several, is if it contains statements such as if (binbuf_getvec(x-te_binbuf)[0]==gensym(thatone)) ... Then it's looking up which alias has been used for the creation and varying the behaviour accordingly. (It could also be using multiple creators that store something to remember the same info, or have a single creator with multiple names, that stores its t_symbol *s in one way or another... I'm talking about all cases of a class acting like it's several) I mean that something can be called a class documentation-wise even though it might not be the case implementation-wise. What's important, then, is to structure the thought so that people can get the most out of those things, and not to document how the code is really written. But note that if you have a [table whatever] and a [s pd-whatever], you can do dynamic-patching instead of the [table], even though the [table] won't save the contents. You can try «obj 0 0 inlet» and «obj 0 20 outlet» and see that they really add inlets and outlets on a [table] object. Thus, in that manner, [inlet] and [outlet] are relevant to [table] objects. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On Tue, 14 Dec 2010, John Harrison wrote: If it were up to me, we'd keep all of Sevy's stuff in Pd-extended. The licenses Sevy offers conflict with the licenses of much of the software it borrows from (for example EffecTV) so they are invalid anyway. Invalid licenses are not to be automatically ignored. If you sign a contract that contradicts itself, that doesn't allow you to ignore any part of that contract. Instead, the contract has to be explicitly amended so that it can be respected wholly. I don't buy the argument that the Sevy's stuff should be removed out of respect for the author, as this argument conflicts with a more compelling argument of respect for the community, for free software, and for the GPL license. Sevy's stuff should be removed out of respect for the GPL license. Do you get this ? ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pmpd maintainer; WAS Re: libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
Le 14/12/2010 16:22, ydego...@gmail.com a écrit : yeh but me i want my stuff out of this i really don't care about your stuff. but since you included me in this discussion, i have to say that i don't understand your point. you use to release your code under GPL. the only point of the gpl is allowing this. you should consider a non-free licence for your code if you don't want anyone to modify it without your consent. + it's totally useless to speak with this guy, he said he worked with Tom Schouten on pdp but pdp is not included in pd-extended i don't see any contradiction here. pd-extended is shit anyway, i personally don't use pd-extended. I have no plan to use it in the future, and no plan to develop it. but since i'm an honest person, i'll say that pd'extended is not for me. i think saying that it's shit without any argument is largely exaggerated and can be seen as very offending. yo paso cheers, Cyrille saludos, sevy cyrille henry wrote: hello Yves, i feel a bit concerned because you mention pmpd. I don't understand the problem about hans being pmpd maintainer. i can't find anything saying that a maintainer should be the author of a lib. the pmpd lib distributed with pd-extended clearly specify that's i'm the author of this lib. who's using other people work? well, there is a lot of answers to this question. -pd user (and developer) are using miller work -pd-extended user are using hans work -pmpd user are using my work -i'm using pmpd users to promote my work -i'm using hans work to promote pmpd -i'm using miller (and other) work everyday -hans is using pmpd to have more happy pd-extended user -etc lot's of people are using other people work. i'm using miller, hans and pd users lot's more than hans is using me. This is some short extract of the pmpd licence : 1. You may copy and distribute verbatim copies of the Program's source code as you receive it [...] 2. You may modify your copy or copies of the Program or any portion of it, thus forming a work based on the Program, and copy and distribute such modifications or work under the terms of Section 1 above [...] 3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, under Section 2 [...]) Reading it, you'll understand that anyone could be pmpd maintainer without other authorisation. Cyrille Le 14/12/2010 05:45, ydego...@gmail.com a écrit : you maintain unauthorized ( free version, if free ever meant anything ) and pmpd ? wow, if that's not using other people's work, i dunno what fresh hell is this... very good takeover, very good semester result, you can apply for the employee of the month ydego...@gmail.com wrote: that's really crazy what you did here : http://puredata.info/community/projects/software/unauthorized sorry i haven't seen any recent case of exploitation that reaches that level respect! sevy ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Object vs Class
On 14/12/10 09:35 AM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: Either object class (or objectclass) or class can do, as long as object is synonymous with instance, and there's a separate word meaning class in one way or another. Pd differs from C/python/lua etc. in that it's a graphical/visual language so I tend to think of the object as the thing that gets drawn on the screen by an instance of the class. So in Pd, object has a meaning distinct from instance. Martin ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Plugin for 0.43 to have a gtk-looking open dialog
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 16:08 +0100, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: On 2010-12-14 15:31, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: I believe the objection you mention is that Pd-extended automatically creates ~/pd-externals. ~/pd-externals is the standard user-install path for Pd-vanilla and Pd-extended. I would second the suggestion someone made of a .pd-extended (with dot) folder in the user's home as that seems quite standard for many linux apps... Of course I'm not sure how much this would break existing libraries which rely on the pd-extended folder. That's a common suggestion. Frank made a good case for it not to be a . file, you can see the threads at the bottom here: http://puredata.info/docs/faq/how-do-i-install-externals-and-help-files .hc Lorenzo. since i think that lorenzo relates to me raising the issues, i can confirm that i am indeed concerned with pd-extended automatically creating the ~/pd-externals folder. i don't mind so much if the ~/pd-externals folder is searched automatically, but why would anybody want to have an empty folder in their home-directory. No sudo or root access needed. people who are able to copy a file from ~/Downloads/superduper into ~/pd-externals can probably be expected to be able to create a ~/pd-externals directory. for externals that come with an installation routine (for users who are not willing to copy files around manually), this can create the directory as well. ghmsdft IOhannes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Object vs Class
On Tue, 14 Dec 2010, Martin wrote: Pd differs from C/python/lua etc. in that it's a graphical/visual language so I tend to think of the object as the thing that gets drawn on the screen by an instance of the class. So in Pd, object has a meaning distinct from instance. What difference(s) does that make in practice ? When you use [s pd], are you sending to an object, and if not, what are you sending to, exactly ? ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd-extended 0.42.5 (stable + nightly) tiny fonts?
I was able to compile pd-extended on my machine, and it behaves just the same as the stable release in the repo. The puredata package from the official repos does accept a -font-face flag, but the -font-size does not seem to change (I tried from 10 to 1000 as args). So I'll either compare the config between the liveDVD and my machine to figure out what is different that messes with PD extended, or I'll wait for the gui rewrite pd extended and stick with vanilla. Until this reinstallation I was using 0.39 for all my work still! No harm is sticking with vanilla 42-5. .b. On 10-12-10 12:05 PM, B. Bogart wrote: Ok, so after booting a ubuntu liveDVD (on a usb key) I found three interesting things: 1. Fonts look fine in pd-extended!! (no nvidia driver used) 2. the PD console prints some stuff that pdextended on my installation does not: (no such messages on my installation) Pd Version: 0.42.5-extended Tcl Version: 8.5.8 3. The tk scaling value is ~1. on liveDVD (not the ~1.25 on my installation) Ok, my nvidia card says my dpi (provided by EDID) is 90x96. So the width tk scaling should be 1.25 and the height 1.33, so what does tk scaling mean when pixels are nonsquare? For fun I manually changed the display DPI to crazy numbers (150x150), the tk scaling report changes, but the appearance of the fonts in PD do not change, but they do everywhere else. I'll try compiling pd-extended from source next. .b. On 10-12-10 10:30 AM, B. Bogart wrote: Hi Hans Andras, Andraz, Indeed the wish test looks fine. Hans, I removed 8.4 to make sure everything was running on 8.5. wish certainly (eventually) points to wish8.5 Note I have pd-vanilla (puredata) installed from the lucid repos also. It looks fine, and since I removed 8.4, and only 8.5 is installed, vanilla must be using 8.5. To check if its some weird nvidia thing, I'm going to boot up in the live DVD and see if pd-extended still looks tiny. Thanks for the debugging suggestions all. .b. On 10-12-10 07:52 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: try running your Tk font test with only wish not wish8.5. That's what Pd uses. wish could be pointing to wish8.4 .hc On Dec 9, 2010, at 1:53 PM, B. Bogart wrote: Hi Hans, Now I'm really confused. I tried -verbose and it shows the following in the path. /var/lib/defoma/x-ttcidfont-conf.d/dirs/TrueType/ I rechecked the installation of the recommended fonts (see small-font-pd-extended-#2.png) and verified the command line flags. Even the font size does not change. Tk scaling is 1.2508464142813174. So maybe tk is not reading the fonts for some reason, so I did a little wish8.5 test, presented in tk_likes_dejavu.png. Am I the only one trying to use pd-extended 0.42-5 on a 64bit lucid machine with nvidia proprietary drivers? I tried switching to nv or nouveau but X does not start, looks like I'd have to remove the proprietary drivers just to test. I'll try it on my lucid live DVD when I get a chance. .b. On 10-12-09 07:46 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: If -font-face doesn't change the font, then the font you asked for is not installed correctly, or there is a typo in the font name. Font names are case-sensitive, IIRC. .hc On Dec 8, 2010, at 8:52 PM, B. Bogart wrote: Thanks Hans, I installed those fonts, removed tcl8.4 (leaving 8.5) and reinstalled pd-extended. No change in font size. I also tried starting pd-extended with the -font-face flags, and still no change. I also switched from the binary on puredata to the pd-extended package in the ubuntu repo, which is version 0.42.5-3. I also confirmed in xfce and in the nvidia settings that my screen dpi is 96, and a 96 pixel wide square is indeed 1in on screen. What else can I try? An interesting note, If I open the 'about PD' patch, and change the font size, 10 and 12 point choices change only the height of the font, the width stays constant between them. Both x and y change for the other font size choices. I can make a screenshot if that helps. I have to say its great to have pd-extended in the repos! and 64 bit! Much has changed. :) Thanks, B. On 10-12-07 03:34 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Start here for debugging it: http://puredata.info/docs/faq/on-gnu-linux-the-fonts-are-strange-and-or-too-big-or-small .hc On Tue, 2010-12-07 at 15:22 -0800, B. Bogart wrote: Hi Hans and all, After reading too many books and not doing much PD, I'm back. I'm now running on an ubuntu64 lucid installation, and using the corresponding pd-extended package. I also tried yesterdays nightly build. Both versions show object and console text in a super small font. It looks like 8 or 9 point. I thought it may be the dpi setting (since nvidia cards seems to mess with that a bit) but changing the dpi setting in xfce font settings appears to make no difference. Also the object boxes are bigger than needed for the text size. I've attached a screenshot.
[PD] L2Ork Pd update now available
Apologies for cross-posting. It appears a few more bugs snuck into the stable release. At the same time I felt like the rest of the iemgui objects could really benefit from the resizing via gui, hence another release. 20101214 Changelog: *implemented resizable options for all iemgui objects (some require different behavior than others (e.g. number2 resizes horizontally based on the number of characters, while vertical resize also adjusts font size as well as gui triangle preceding characters, thus resulting in changes in width as well as height--consequently the target size tries to be as close to the mouse cursor as possible while altering width, height, font size and number of characters visible) *changed the whole project naming scheme to reflect L2Orkified version (pdextended becomes pd-l2ork, install dir is /usr/local/lib/pd-l2ork, uses default.pdl2ork config file, reflects different version) *changed appearance and updated content of the about.pd patch *fixed regression where help files for core objects were erroneously replaced by incorrect pddp documentation *synced backport of the new browser and adjusted appearance to match the theme *fixed bug where pddplink failed to open related files *fixed resizable canvas so that it updates scrollbars after resizing, dirties the canvas, and properly relocates scale handle when moved As always, comments/feedback are most appreciated. http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/?page_id=56 Best wishes, Ico ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PD OOP?
On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, Andrew Faraday wrote: I've had a bit of a daydream about a further development in PD. Could an expression be placed into the arguments of an object, or even a named receive become part of expr Written the way you wrote it, that would conflict with the means to access a global variable in [expr]. That's a [v], not a [r]. I suppose the dream would be to have something like [osc~ (pitch * 2)] That conflicts with the syntax used in GridFlow for nested lists. It would also conflict with the syntax of [expr] itself, I suppose (depends on details). Does anyone know of anything like this to streamline pd? Or am I just dreaming here? I like dreaming too, but I need the dreams to be consistent with what's already there and without conflicts. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 15:53 +0100, ydego...@gmail.com wrote: Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 05:01 +0100, ydego...@gmail.com wrote: that's really crazy what you did here : http://puredata.info/community/projects/software/unauthorized sorry i haven't seen any recent case of exploitation that reaches that level respect! sevy I thought you might want to promote your software. Its editable, change it if you want. .hc ok after all these useless discussions, i'll stick to my first and initial decision, not use pd-extended anymore, pure:dyne packages are more complete anyway. but i want my stuff to be taken out of pd-extended, otherwise it just shows your lack of respect to the authors, and i'm bored to speak to lawyers instead of honest people. I mean no disrespect. When you released 'unauthorized' under the GPL, you made a promise to your users that 'unauthorized' would remain free software. That is the meaning of the GPL. I am merely acting on this promise that you made many years ago, a promise that you have done a good job sticking to until now. And for the record, no one said that PDP is being removed from Pd-extended. .hc ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd refcards
On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, Karim Barkati wrote: Nope Mathieu, I didn't know about these translation files. It's very interesting and it could have saved me some questions on translation issues ! But it's some consolation to me that usually manual adjustments stay necessary to fit on one or two pages *nicely* ;-) It's not just that : the translation files I have also give translation for most items in the Put menu ([bng] [tgl] etc) and they include real descriptions for math operators instead of vague stuff like «higher math» and silly jokes like «lower math». That was my initiative in 2004 to make such a list of short descriptions (readable by tcl), and in 2005 for the translations (which were made by various people in 2005-2008). ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On Tue, 14 Dec 2010, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: I mean no disrespect. When you released 'unauthorized' under the GPL, you made a promise to your users that 'unauthorized' would remain free software. That is the meaning of the GPL. That's not the meaning of it. The meaning of the GPL (or any other public license) is that once you put something under the GPL, *that* version of the software can be used under the same license forever. However, the owners of the copyright can choose any other license they want for the existing software as long as they don't make them conflict (users get to pick the license they want in that case). The owners of the copyright can also stop distributing the GPL version, and make a series of versions under whichever other license, and that's why the FSF considers forking to be a most critical right : the right to continue to update a free version of any software that has been free. You know this, and in effect, by volunteering as the maintainer of «Unauthorized», you are forking it, or announcing a pending fork (waiting for a diff to apply). ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Dec 13, 2010, at 12:27 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: - autoconf is welcome in Pd-extended (see Gem, pdp, zexy, oscx, etc.) He's talking about the opposite : is autoconf required in Pd-extended ? Definitely not, there are Makefile-only, autoconf, and autoconf+automake projects in Pd-extended. ah, thought so. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PD OOP?
On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
Jmax Phoenix does this. If I recall correctly it breaks the nested list
feature in Gridflow.
Well, it's a bit more complicated. Back then, GridFlow's nested lists were
written using braces {}, but they weren't GridFlow's nested lists, they
were supported directly by jMax. I had to add the parentheses hack to
GridFlow so that I could port it to Pd.
the (pitch * 2) feature of jMax does it with variables only (such as [v])
(or constant-declarations, a jMax-only feature) and I think that this is
at creation time only, but I don't recall using it, anyway.
for some reason that I don't remember, the * that is supposed to be a
multiplication only within parentheses, was also considered a
multiplication sign outside of parentheses, where it was considered to be
a syntax error instead of a symbol. This is why I decided to ditch jMax
completely and go for Pd as much as possible. (But ditching jMax was going
to happen not long after that anyway, as IRCAM cancelled the project,
deleted the mailing-list archives, etc.)
But considering your [osc~ (pitch * 2)] example-- what would happen if
you change the value of pitch? The value of the [osc~] object's
argument is assigned to be the initial frequency only when the object is
created, so it doesn't seem like it would have an effect unless you
recreate the object.
It's not currently possible to know how to update it dynamically : the
creation arguments are only passed to creators (constructors), not
assigned in any explicit way to inlets or inlet/message combinations. The
first argument is not even consistently assigned to the second inlet.
As an example, if I implemented such a feature in GridFlow,
[# + (pitch * 2)]
Pd would read it as :
$1 = +
$2 = (pitch
$3 = *
$4 = 2)
GridFlow would reparse it as :
$1 = +
$2 = (pitch * 2)
But at that point, something is lacking, to say that the second argument
is assigned to the second inlet, and that the first argument corresponds
to a method named op instead.
___
| Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC___
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Re: [PD] Objects vs Classes (was: libraries in Pd-extended 0.43)
--- On Tue, 12/14/10, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca Subject: [PD] Objects vs Classes (was: libraries in Pd-extended 0.43) To: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Cc: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com, PD List pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 3:23 PM On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Pd doesn't really have classes like OOP (i.e. no inheritance), Inheritance is not an essential feature of OOP, if you consider how much this feature varies a lot from one OOP language to another, moreso than other features. The more essential features of OOP are data-abstraction, encapsulation, polymorphism, modularity, ... and in nearly all lists of typical OOP features, one is missing (but essential in practice) : the idea that multiple objects share a single class definition (that is, methods belong to classes, not directly to objects). Pd's abstractions are precisely that : one patch is a class, and each use of that patch as an objectbox in any another patch is an object. In short, there's a lot that programming languages have in common, that are typical OOP features, without having to even speak about inheritance. so I think it can be confusing to use that term. Confusing with what ? What's confusing is that you guys use one word for two things that are normally given two different names in every other language : object vs class in most cases, object vs prototype in some others, instance vs class, etc. The confusion comes from people who insist on using the word object to mean class. People have been saying objects for a long time with Pd and Max. In itself, that doesn't make it a good idea. The Pd/Max mentality of we're s completely different from everything else ! doesn't serve much more than egos. You've used this argument before. I don't remember exactly what the topic was-- maybe recursion-- and you made the point that pretty much verbatim-- that Pd is very different from everything else. I don't know, maybe you were talking about tactics (see below). In the end, problem-solving in Pd/Max is fundamentally similar to that of any other computer programming (in the strategies, not the tactics) It looks as if you a) wrote the we're-s-completely-different straw man, b) realized it might apply to yourself, and c) decided to give yourself an escape route by making an arbitrary division between strategies and tactics. (How is it that the Pd tacticians are reasonable people but the Pd strategists are egomanical?) -Jonathan so, any kind of isolationism is a manner of making it unnecessarily harder for other programmers to understand us, and vice-versa. If we adopted standard vocabulary, we could focus on real differences between Pd/Max and other languages, instead of terminology. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
--- On Tue, 12/14/10, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43 To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: PD List pd-list@iem.at, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 4:36 PM On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: You're right. I'm an object-o-phile. But do you find Related Objects troubling-- should it be Related Classes? well... yes In a lot of situations you need both. For something like canvas_class it doesn't make much sense to put all the details of what the class does in one giant help file Giant help files aren't much of a problem, but it would be more appropriate to introduce method-categories (as in Smalltalk) in order to avoid the mandatory quasi-alphabetical sorting. (GF sorts them like : bang float grid symbol pointer list, then all other names in alphabetical order, then any at the very end.) for instance, to follow your GFDP model, you'd have one see also section that includes [inlet] (which relates to [pd] but not to [table]) The t_class structure of [pd]/[table]/array/abstractions/patches is especially hairy. If a single t_class acts like it's many classes at once, it may make sense to document it as several classes anyway. However, pd will still refer you to a single help file for all those cases (except abstractions). Yeah, so currently I have links inside canvas-help.pd to table-help.pd, pd-help.pd, graph-help.pd, and a special note about Put menu arrays with a link to array-help.pd. array-help.pd is necessary to have there because triggering the help patch for the Put menu array is so obscure (I wonder if anyone here even knows what to click to get it.) The way a single t_class may act like several, is if it contains statements such as if (binbuf_getvec(x-te_binbuf)[0]==gensym(thatone)) ... Then it's looking up which alias has been used for the creation and varying the behaviour accordingly. (It could also be using multiple creators that store something to remember the same info, or have a single creator with multiple names, that stores its t_symbol *s in one way or another... I'm talking about all cases of a class acting like it's several) I mean that something can be called a class documentation-wise even though it might not be the case implementation-wise. What's important, then, is to structure the thought so that people can get the most out of those things, and not to document how the code is really written. But note that if you have a [table whatever] and a [s pd-whatever], you can do dynamic-patching instead of the [table], even though the [table] won't save the contents. You can try «obj 0 0 inlet» and «obj 0 20 outlet» and see that they really add inlets and outlets on a [table] object. Thus, in that manner, [inlet] and [outlet] are relevant to [table] objects. That's true, but just because it's possible to do that doesn't mean that [inlet] and [outlet] are relevant enough to show in the help patch for [table], any more than showing [list] in the help patch for [metro]. Also, it doesn't work the other way around-- [tabread], [tabwrite], etc. are not relevant to [pd]. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] mix_movement and pix_mean_color
Hi all, Is it normal that I get always 1 on the fourth output after the [unpack f f f f] from the second outlet of [pix_mean_color] ? I tried with an [alpha], but nothing changed. Here's the test file. Thanks, --- Anas Ghrab p.s. : OS X 10.5.8; Pd : 0.42.5-extended mouvement.pd Description: Binary data ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] mix_movement and pix_mean_color
On Wed, 15 Dec 2010, Anas Ghrab wrote: Is it normal that I get always 1 on the fourth output after the [unpack f f f f] from the second outlet of [pix_mean_color] ? I tried with an [alpha], but nothing changed. Bonjour, [alpha] in itself doesn't modify a pix, it only activates the use of the alpha channel in a tex, and so, it's only relevant after using [pix_texture], and it doesn't do what you want to do. What do you want the alpha channel to represent, in your pix ? ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
--- On Tue, 12/14/10, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43 To: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Cc: PD List pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 8:56 PM On Tue, 14 Dec 2010, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: I mean no disrespect. When you released 'unauthorized' under the GPL, you made a promise to your users that 'unauthorized' would remain free software. That is the meaning of the GPL. That's not the meaning of it. The meaning of the GPL (or any other public license) is that once you put something under the GPL, *that* version of the software can be used under the same license forever. However, the owners of the copyright can choose any other license they want for the existing software as long as they don't make them conflict (users get to pick the license they want in that case). The owners of the copyright can also stop distributing the GPL version, and make a series of versions under whichever other license, and that's why the FSF considers forking to be a most critical right : the right to continue to update a free version of any software that has been free. You know this, and in effect, by volunteering as the maintainer of «Unauthorized», you are forking it, or announcing a pending fork (waiting for a diff to apply). So did the software in question _always_ have the conflicting licenses, or was it originally just GPL and in a subsequent version the other license was added? ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Objects vs Classes (was: libraries in Pd-extended 0.43)
On Tue, 14 Dec 2010, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: You've used this argument before. I don't remember exactly what the topic was-- maybe recursion-- and you made the point that pretty much verbatim-- that Pd is very different from everything else. I don't know, maybe you were talking about tactics (see below). Pd is very different from everything else and very similar to everything else. It depends which aspect you look at. You can't look at how one part of pd is original and conclude that all of pd is like that, or vice versa. On average, I found similarities to happen at a larger scale than differences, but that doesn't apply all of the time, which is why I say «on average». Nevertheless, I thought I'd say strategies for the larger scale, and tactics for the small scale. It looks as if you a) wrote the we're-s-completely-different straw man, Speaking of strawman, (How is it that the Pd tacticians are reasonable people but the Pd strategists are egomanical?) 1. I didn't say egomaniacal, 2. I didn't say that there were tacticians vs strategists : I didn't say that there were two kinds of people in the Pd community. To give a few examples, in programming, ordering of operations is often important, and it's like that in Pd as well, but Pd has its own means of dealing with it : hot/cold, right-to-left, [t], etc. ; also, the way to deal with large problems is to make components, and those components are usually classes that are instantiated with constructors to produce objects that respond to messages using methods, and in Pd it's like that too, but the objects also may have inlets, outlets, and the classes may be patches. c) decided to give yourself an escape route by making an arbitrary division between strategies and tactics. Can you just make a quick inventory of similarities and differences between Pd and a «written» programming language of your choice, and confirm that more similarities are in the big picture, and more differences are in the details ? It would save us some sweat, and if you can actually find ways to contradict me, I would like it. b) realized it might apply to yourself, What are you talking about. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On Tue, 14 Dec 2010, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: So did the software in question _always_ have the conflicting licenses, or was it originally just GPL and in a subsequent version the other license was added? Well, I found the military clause in PiDiP in déc.2005, and I have no idea for how long it had been there at that time. Until now, I had no idea about Unauthorized, really, but I just looked at a checkout from last month, and COPYING was just the GPLv2. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] call for testers for L2Ork iteration of pd-extended (based on 0.42.x branch)
On Sun, 28 Nov 2010, João Pais wrote: I had a small look at [#many]. Do you think it would be better to use C-coded objects instead for this kind of complex gop abstractions? Well, you see, Pd *has* to grow more means to solve problems using abstractions, so, I'm making the bet that I can solve this problem with abstractions. I don't know whether it'd really take less time with C code, and if I did, I wouldn't end up with more means to solve problems using abstractions. (I wrote small externals to support [#many]). What makes you think that it would be better ? I use lots of abstractions with gop (from my library, specially [m-i] for midi input), and it seems to me that at some point I have so many abstractions, that my patches take longer to load. But I didn't do a real test to prove this. It seems that Pd on Windows takes several times more time instantiating abstractions than on Linux and OSX, especially with a full-blown path of 40 folders or so. This could be mostly fixed if Claude's abstraction-cache had been included in Pd, which can dramatically speed up abstraction-loading on all platforms, but probably especially on Windows (but I didn't check). But this does not especially affect [#many], I'd guess. It would be a lot worse if [#many]'s elements could be abstractions, which is a planned feature. Then if you used a gop-abstraction name as the first arg of [#many], you'd trigger an insane number of lookups. This might be mitigated by specifying the absolute path to the abstraction when instantiating. This wouldn't be a bad idea to have an external that can lookup that, because as it is, [#many foo 16 16] can't see foo.pd in the folder of the patch that has [#many foo 16 16] in it, and that's more than annoying, so, this issue has to be tackled anyway. But apart from that... can you find any abstraction instances inside of [#many] ? I don't see any... so, it shouldn't be much longer to load. GridFlow's three big abstractions are [doc_h] (9k), [#many] (10k), and [#camera] (12.5k), and among them, [#many] is the only to not load any other abstractions. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] mix_movement and pix_mean_color
Le mardi 14 décembre 2010 à 18:18 -0500, Mathieu Bouchard a écrit : On Wed, 15 Dec 2010, Anas Ghrab wrote: Is it normal that I get always 1 on the fourth output after the [unpack f f f f] from the second outlet of [pix_mean_color] ? I tried with an [alpha], but nothing changed. Bonjour, [alpha] in itself doesn't modify a pix, it only activates the use of the alpha channel in a tex, No, it activate alpha blending in the fragment processor, so on a geo after resterization or/and a texture apply on this rasterized geo. and so, it's only relevant after using [pix_texture], Or without [pix_texture] (just a geo). and it doesn't do what you want to do. that true. What do you want the alpha channel to represent, in your pix ? Only the alpha ! Look at the 'data' folder in the gem example, there is a 'fractalAlpha.TIF', [pix_mean_color] return the average of the alpha in this pix. Anas, put a [pix_rgba] after [pix_video]. ++ Jack ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] call for testers for L2Ork iteration of pd-extended (based on 0.42.x branch)
--- On Wed, 12/15/10, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] call for testers for L2Ork iteration of pd-extended (based on 0.42.x branch) To: João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 1:11 AM On Sun, 28 Nov 2010, João Pais wrote: I had a small look at [#many]. Do you think it would be better to use C-coded objects instead for this kind of complex gop abstractions? Well, you see, Pd *has* to grow more means to solve problems using abstractions, so, I'm making the bet that I can solve this problem with abstractions. I don't know whether it'd really take less time with C code, and if I did, I wouldn't end up with more means to solve problems using abstractions. (I wrote small externals to support [#many]). What makes you think that it would be better ? I use lots of abstractions with gop (from my library, specially [m-i] for midi input), and it seems to me that at some point I have so many abstractions, that my patches take longer to load. But I didn't do a real test to prove this. It seems that Pd on Windows takes several times more time instantiating abstractions than on Linux and OSX, especially with a full-blown path of 40 folders or so. This could be mostly fixed if Claude's abstraction-cache had been included in Pd, which can dramatically speed up abstraction-loading on all platforms, but probably especially on Windows (but I didn't check). Is this patch on the tracker? I can't find it. But this does not especially affect [#many], I'd guess. It would be a lot worse if [#many]'s elements could be abstractions, which is a planned feature. Then if you used a gop-abstraction name as the first arg of [#many], you'd trigger an insane number of lookups. This might be mitigated by specifying the absolute path to the abstraction when instantiating. This wouldn't be a bad idea to have an external that can lookup that, because as it is, [#many foo 16 16] can't see foo.pd in the folder of the patch that has [#many foo 16 16] in it, and that's more than annoying, so, this issue has to be tackled anyway. But apart from that... can you find any abstraction instances inside of [#many] ? I don't see any... so, it shouldn't be much longer to load. GridFlow's three big abstractions are [doc_h] (9k), [#many] (10k), and [#camera] (12.5k), and among them, [#many] is the only to not load any other abstractions. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PD OOP?
Hey ThereYou might want to have a look at Jamie Bullock's abstraction based
solution(which also went out on this list). Which was quite eloquent, if a
little limiting at first. It's a little way back from the dream of dropping
lines of OO code into pd but it's the kind of thing, when I find a syntax I
like for this, could be useful to streamline some of my patching.
I suppose what I'd really like is embedded ruby in pd, but that's either going
to be a case of some serious modification (a bit beyond me now) or possibly
shell scripts, something like
[loadbang]|[irb, pitch = 440, *other variables*(|[shell]
*number*|[pitch = $1{| [shell]
[pitch * 2{|[shell]|[osc~]
Although I suspect this may convolute issues more than solving them. Although
in theory it might simplify some logic blocks...
[if pitch 1,volume = .05,elsif pitch 5000,volume = .1,else,volume =
.15,end(|[shell]
I'm really not sure if this is worth pursuing or not. It might lead to some
impressive results, especially if I could define some methods in a ruby file
and call them via shell, meaning I could write a parallel ruby library for a pd
project.
The main problem I can see would be requesting live feedback from ruby. Would
probably have to poll a whole lot of variables quite regularly for irb to deal
with it.
All casting about ideas here, guys, but any ideas or guidance might be helpful.
Cheers
Andrew
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 15:08:14 -0500
From: ma...@artengine.ca
To: jancs...@yahoo.com
CC: pd-list@iem.at; jbtur...@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [PD] PD OOP?
On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
Jmax Phoenix does this. If I recall correctly it breaks the nested list
feature in Gridflow.
Well, it's a bit more complicated. Back then, GridFlow's nested lists were
written using braces {}, but they weren't GridFlow's nested lists, they
were supported directly by jMax. I had to add the parentheses hack to
GridFlow so that I could port it to Pd.
the (pitch * 2) feature of jMax does it with variables only (such as [v])
(or constant-declarations, a jMax-only feature) and I think that this is
at creation time only, but I don't recall using it, anyway.
for some reason that I don't remember, the * that is supposed to be a
multiplication only within parentheses, was also considered a
multiplication sign outside of parentheses, where it was considered to be
a syntax error instead of a symbol. This is why I decided to ditch jMax
completely and go for Pd as much as possible. (But ditching jMax was going
to happen not long after that anyway, as IRCAM cancelled the project,
deleted the mailing-list archives, etc.)
But considering your [osc~ (pitch * 2)] example-- what would happen if
you change the value of pitch? The value of the [osc~] object's
argument is assigned to be the initial frequency only when the object is
created, so it doesn't seem like it would have an effect unless you
recreate the object.
It's not currently possible to know how to update it dynamically : the
creation arguments are only passed to creators (constructors), not
assigned in any explicit way to inlets or inlet/message combinations. The
first argument is not even consistently assigned to the second inlet.
As an example, if I implemented such a feature in GridFlow,
[# + (pitch * 2)]
Pd would read it as :
$1 = +
$2 = (pitch
$3 = *
$4 = 2)
GridFlow would reparse it as :
$1 = +
$2 = (pitch * 2)
But at that point, something is lacking, to say that the second argument
is assigned to the second inlet, and that the first argument corresponds
to a method named op instead.
___
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Re: [PD] PD OOP?
I know Max has an [if] object that looks pretty much like your [if pitch...
etc.] example below.
-Jonathan
--- On Wed, 12/15/10, Andrew Faraday jbtur...@hotmail.com wrote:
From: Andrew Faraday jbtur...@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: [PD] PD OOP?
To: ma...@artengine.ca, jancs...@yahoo.com
Cc: pd-list@iem.at
Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 1:53 AM
Hey There
You might want to have a look at Jamie Bullock's abstraction based
solution(which also went out on this list). Which was quite eloquent, if a
little limiting at first. It's a little way back from the dream of dropping
lines of OO code into pd but it's the kind of thing, when I find a syntax I
like for this, could be useful to streamline some of my patching.
I suppose what I'd really like is embedded ruby in pd, but that's either going
to be a case of some serious modification (a bit beyond me now) or possibly
shell scripts, something like
[loadbang]|[irb, pitch = 440, *other variables*(|[shell]
*number*|[pitch = $1{| [shell]
[pitch * 2{|[shell]|[osc~]
Although I suspect this may convolute issues more than solving them. Although
in theory it might simplify some logic blocks...
[if pitch 1,volume = .05,elsif pitch 5000,volume = .1,else,volume =
.15,end(|[shell]
I'm really not sure if this is worth pursuing or not. It might lead to some
impressive results, especially if I could define some methods in a ruby file
and call them via shell, meaning I could write a parallel ruby library for a pd
project.
The main problem I can see would be requesting live feedback from ruby. Would
probably have to poll a whole lot of variables quite regularly for irb to deal
with it.
All casting about ideas here, guys, but any ideas or guidance might be helpful.
Cheers
Andrew
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 15:08:14 -0500
From: ma...@artengine.ca
To: jancs...@yahoo.com
CC: pd-list@iem.at; jbtur...@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [PD] PD OOP?
On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
Jmax Phoenix does this. If I recall correctly it breaks the nested list
feature in Gridflow.
Well, it's a bit more complicated. Back then, GridFlow's nested lists were
written using braces {}, but they weren't GridFlow's nested lists, they
were supported directly by jMax. I had to add the parentheses hack to
GridFlow so that I could port it to Pd.
the (pitch * 2) feature of jMax does it with variables only (such as [v])
(or constant-declarations, a jMax-only feature) and I think that this is
at creation time only, but I don't recall using it, anyway.
for some reason that I don't remember, the * that is supposed to be a
multiplication only within parentheses, was also considered a
multiplication sign outside of parentheses, where it was considered to be
a syntax error instead of a symbol. This is why I decided to ditch jMax
completely and go for Pd as much as possible. (But ditching jMax was going
to happen not long after that anyway, as IRCAM cancelled the project,
deleted the mailing-list archives, etc.)
But considering your [osc~ (pitch * 2)] example-- what would happen if
you change the value of pitch? The value of the [osc~] object's
argument is assigned to be the initial frequency only when the object is
created, so it doesn't seem like it would have an effect unless you
recreate the object.
It's not currently possible to know how to update it dynamically : the
creation arguments are only passed to creators (constructors), not
assigned in any explicit way to inlets or inlet/message combinations. The
first argument is not even consistently assigned to the second inlet.
As an example, if I implemented such a feature in GridFlow,
[# + (pitch * 2)]
Pd would read it as :
$1 = +
$2 = (pitch
$3 = *
$4 = 2)
GridFlow would reparse it as :
$1 = +
$2 = (pitch * 2)
But at that point, something is lacking, to say that the second argument
is assigned to the second inlet, and that the first argument corresponds
to a method named op instead.
___
| Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC
___
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -
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Re: [PD] Plugin for 0.43 to have a gtk-looking open dialog
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 04:08:30PM +0100, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: On 2010-12-14 15:31, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: I believe the objection you mention is that Pd-extended automatically creates ~/pd-externals. ~/pd-externals is the standard user-install path for Pd-vanilla and Pd-extended. I would second the suggestion someone made of a .pd-extended (with dot) folder in the user's home as that seems quite standard for many linux apps... Of course I'm not sure how much this would break existing libraries which rely on the pd-extended folder. I would also second this. Cheers, Chris. --- http://mccormick.cx ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Plugin for 0.43 to have a gtk-looking open dialog
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:20:32AM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 16:08 +0100, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: On 2010-12-14 15:31, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: I believe the objection you mention is that Pd-extended automatically creates ~/pd-externals. ~/pd-externals is the standard user-install path for Pd-vanilla and Pd-extended. I would second the suggestion someone made of a .pd-extended (with dot) folder in the user's home as that seems quite standard for many linux apps... Of course I'm not sure how much this would break existing libraries which rely on the pd-extended folder. That's a common suggestion. Frank made a good case for it not to be a . file, you can see the threads at the bottom here: http://puredata.info/docs/faq/how-do-i-install-externals-and-help-files Did you interperet Frank's comment: The home path isn't important anyway as every user probably has her own file layout for home. And I don't think that every home should be standardized, I like it if all my friends' homes look different. to mean that he doesn't agree with a dot file? I am not sure if that's a correct reading. Seems more like a whimsical off-hand comment than a reason to break with forty two years of unix tradition. If you don't like ~/.pd-externals the other thing you could do is follow the free desktop standard and put it in one of ~/.config/pd-externals ~/Templates/pd-externals ~/Documents/pd-externals or something? There must be a precedent for this. pd-extras would seem like a more apt name to me too. Sorry to be a trouble maker. I should say that I totally love this new feature and many thanks for lobbying to get it into Pd/MSP. Cheers, Chris. --- http://mccormick.cx ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [netro] is a network synchronising [metro]
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 10:48:37PM +0800, Chris McCormick wrote: Hello PdPartyAnimals, http://code.google.com/p/pd-netro/ Hi, Frank pointed out a bug where the copy that was up there would only work on some subnets (192.168.1.*). If you downloaded it please get the latest version which supports running on any LAN (255.255.255.255). Enjoy! Chris. --- http://mccormick.cx ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] L2Ork Pd update now available
segfault: 1. New patch. 2. Create [cnv]. 3. Save as test.pd 4. Right-click [cnv] and choose Properties. 5. Click Ok. Crash. (Hardy.) -Jonathan --- On Tue, 12/14/10, Ivica Ico Bukvic i...@vt.edu wrote: From: Ivica Ico Bukvic i...@vt.edu Subject: [PD] L2Ork Pd update now available To: pd-list@iem.at, l2ork-...@disis.music.vt.edu, l...@lists.linuxaudio.org, pik...@piksel.no Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 6:28 PM Apologies for cross-posting. It appears a few more bugs snuck into the stable release. At the same time I felt like the rest of the iemgui objects could really benefit from the resizing via gui, hence another release. 20101214 Changelog: *implemented resizable options for all iemgui objects (some require different behavior than others (e.g. number2 resizes horizontally based on the number of characters, while vertical resize also adjusts font size as well as gui triangle preceding characters, thus resulting in changes in width as well as height--consequently the target size tries to be as close to the mouse cursor as possible while altering width, height, font size and number of characters visible) *changed the whole project naming scheme to reflect L2Orkified version (pdextended becomes pd-l2ork, install dir is /usr/local/lib/pd-l2ork, uses default.pdl2ork config file, reflects different version) *changed appearance and updated content of the about.pd patch *fixed regression where help files for core objects were erroneously replaced by incorrect pddp documentation *synced backport of the new browser and adjusted appearance to match the theme *fixed bug where pddplink failed to open related files *fixed resizable canvas so that it updates scrollbars after resizing, dirties the canvas, and properly relocates scale handle when moved As always, comments/feedback are most appreciated. http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/?page_id=56 Best wishes, Ico ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Plugin for 0.43 to have a gtk-looking open dialog
I think this is great. Is it going to become a normal part of Pd-extended? -Jonathan --- On Tue, 12/14/10, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Plugin for 0.43 to have a gtk-looking open dialog To: Lorenzo Sutton lsut...@libero.it Cc: Pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 3:31 PM On Dec 14, 2010, at 6:05 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: Original Message Subject: Re: [PD] Plugin for 0.43 to have a gtk-looking open dialog From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at To: Lorenzo Sutton lsut...@libero.it CC: Pd-list@iem.at Date: 12/14/2010 12:41 AM On Mon, 2010-12-13 at 17:12 +0100, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: I eventually had a look into the GUI plug-in stuff and came up with this. It uses a zenity-inspired gtk binary to make the dialogue (not particularly finesse, but easier thank tcl/gtk). Source and binary as well as the tcl plugin here: http://puredata.info/Members/lorenzosu/gtk-open-plugin/gtk-open-plugin That's great! So much better than the crappy Tcl/Tk open panel. It would be great to have the save panel too. I added code so that the plugin finds pd_gtk_open in the searchpath, that's attached. I also think an install target for the Makefile would make it really easy to install: Hey thanks for that. I already have the binary for the save dialog, I just have to figure out how to make the plug-in. Now that I spend a couple hours with the GTK open panel, it felt so natural I was shocked when I removed the plugin. Looking forward to the save panel! install: install -d ~/pd-externals/ install -p -m644 gtkopen-plugin.tcl ~/pd-externals/ install -p -m755 $(PROGRAM) ~/pd-externals/ Ok.. but I think someone was raising the issue of a ~/pd-externals dir being created. Anyway it does make sense to distribute the plug-in I believe the objection you mention is that Pd-extended automatically creates ~/pd-externals. ~/pd-externals is the standard user-install path for Pd-vanilla and Pd-extended. No sudo or root access needed. .hc If you want to publicize this, you could add it to the GUI Plugins section of the new download page: http://puredata.info/community/projects/software/ http://puredata.info/docs/sitedocs/AddingYourProjectToDownloads I'll do that as soon as I have time, maybe once the save is done... An open without a matching save seems a bit strange atm :) Lorenzo .hc You can't steal a gift. Bird gave the world his music, and if you can hear it, you can have it. - Dizzy Gillespie ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] L2Ork Pd update now available
Narrowing it down: segfault only happens if you right-click and choose Properties _without_ having first selected the object. -Jonathan --- On Tue, 12/14/10, Ivica Ico Bukvic i...@vt.edu wrote: From: Ivica Ico Bukvic i...@vt.edu Subject: [PD] L2Ork Pd update now available To: pd-list@iem.at, l2ork-...@disis.music.vt.edu, l...@lists.linuxaudio.org, pik...@piksel.no Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 6:28 PM Apologies for cross-posting. It appears a few more bugs snuck into the stable release. At the same time I felt like the rest of the iemgui objects could really benefit from the resizing via gui, hence another release. 20101214 Changelog: *implemented resizable options for all iemgui objects (some require different behavior than others (e.g. number2 resizes horizontally based on the number of characters, while vertical resize also adjusts font size as well as gui triangle preceding characters, thus resulting in changes in width as well as height--consequently the target size tries to be as close to the mouse cursor as possible while altering width, height, font size and number of characters visible) *changed the whole project naming scheme to reflect L2Orkified version (pdextended becomes pd-l2ork, install dir is /usr/local/lib/pd-l2ork, uses default.pdl2ork config file, reflects different version) *changed appearance and updated content of the about.pd patch *fixed regression where help files for core objects were erroneously replaced by incorrect pddp documentation *synced backport of the new browser and adjusted appearance to match the theme *fixed bug where pddplink failed to open related files *fixed resizable canvas so that it updates scrollbars after resizing, dirties the canvas, and properly relocates scale handle when moved As always, comments/feedback are most appreciated. http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/?page_id=56 Best wishes, Ico ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] L2Ork Pd update now available
Can't reproduce over here. Are you running different libs and are they precompiled for l2ork? Also, after you've right-clicked you said cnv is not selected. At what point did you deselect it in the first place? Ico On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 19:35 -0800, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: segfault: 1. New patch. 2. Create [cnv]. 3. Save as test.pd 4. Right-click [cnv] and choose Properties. 5. Click Ok. Crash. (Hardy.) -Jonathan --- On Tue, 12/14/10, Ivica Ico Bukvic i...@vt.edu wrote: From: Ivica Ico Bukvic i...@vt.edu Subject: [PD] L2Ork Pd update now available To: pd-list@iem.at, l2ork-...@disis.music.vt.edu, l...@lists.linuxaudio.org, pik...@piksel.no Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 6:28 PM Apologies for cross-posting. It appears a few more bugs snuck into the stable release. At the same time I felt like the rest of the iemgui objects could really benefit from the resizing via gui, hence another release. 20101214 Changelog: *implemented resizable options for all iemgui objects (some require different behavior than others (e.g. number2 resizes horizontally based on the number of characters, while vertical resize also adjusts font size as well as gui triangle preceding characters, thus resulting in changes in width as well as height--consequently the target size tries to be as close to the mouse cursor as possible while altering width, height, font size and number of characters visible) *changed the whole project naming scheme to reflect L2Orkified version (pdextended becomes pd-l2ork, install dir is /usr/local/lib/pd-l2ork, uses default.pdl2ork config file, reflects different version) *changed appearance and updated content of the about.pd patch *fixed regression where help files for core objects were erroneously replaced by incorrect pddp documentation *synced backport of the new browser and adjusted appearance to match the theme *fixed bug where pddplink failed to open related files *fixed resizable canvas so that it updates scrollbars after resizing, dirties the canvas, and properly relocates scale handle when moved As always, comments/feedback are most appreciated. http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/?page_id=56 Best wishes, Ico ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] L2Ork Pd update now available
For example-- right-click on the top left-hand corner of cnv in run mode (since you can't select anything in run mode, this will ensure it's not selected). Then choose Properties. Now when I click Ok under these circumstances I get the segfault. -Jonathan --- On Wed, 12/15/10, Ivica Ico Bukvic i...@vt.edu wrote: From: Ivica Ico Bukvic i...@vt.edu Subject: Re: [PD] L2Ork Pd update now available To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at, l2ork-...@disis.music.vt.edu, l...@lists.linuxaudio.org, pik...@piksel.no Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 6:33 AM Can't reproduce over here. Are you running different libs and are they precompiled for l2ork? Also, after you've right-clicked you said cnv is not selected. At what point did you deselect it in the first place? Ico On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 19:35 -0800, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: segfault: 1. New patch. 2. Create [cnv]. 3. Save as test.pd 4. Right-click [cnv] and choose Properties. 5. Click Ok. Crash. (Hardy.) -Jonathan --- On Tue, 12/14/10, Ivica Ico Bukvic i...@vt.edu wrote: From: Ivica Ico Bukvic i...@vt.edu Subject: [PD] L2Ork Pd update now available To: pd-list@iem.at, l2ork-...@disis.music.vt.edu, l...@lists.linuxaudio.org, pik...@piksel.no Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 6:28 PM Apologies for cross-posting. It appears a few more bugs snuck into the stable release. At the same time I felt like the rest of the iemgui objects could really benefit from the resizing via gui, hence another release. 20101214 Changelog: *implemented resizable options for all iemgui objects (some require different behavior than others (e.g. number2 resizes horizontally based on the number of characters, while vertical resize also adjusts font size as well as gui triangle preceding characters, thus resulting in changes in width as well as height--consequently the target size tries to be as close to the mouse cursor as possible while altering width, height, font size and number of characters visible) *changed the whole project naming scheme to reflect L2Orkified version (pdextended becomes pd-l2ork, install dir is /usr/local/lib/pd-l2ork, uses default.pdl2ork config file, reflects different version) *changed appearance and updated content of the about.pd patch *fixed regression where help files for core objects were erroneously replaced by incorrect pddp documentation *synced backport of the new browser and adjusted appearance to match the theme *fixed bug where pddplink failed to open related files *fixed resizable canvas so that it updates scrollbars after resizing, dirties the canvas, and properly relocates scale handle when moved As always, comments/feedback are most appreciated. http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/?page_id=56 Best wishes, Ico ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
Just curious Overall, at which point is a project forked? When additions are made or taken away? Or just when licence terms are changed? If the code is copied and then released under a different name? In this case it would be the licence change I believe On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:52 PM, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.cawrote: On Tue, 14 Dec 2010, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: So did the software in question _always_ have the conflicting licenses, or was it originally just GPL and in a subsequent version the other license was added? Well, I found the military clause in PiDiP in déc.2005, and I have no idea for how long it had been there at that time. Until now, I had no idea about Unauthorized, really, but I just looked at a checkout from last month, and COPYING was just the GPLv2. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] L2Ork Pd update now available
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 21:50 -0800, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: For example-- right-click on the top left-hand corner of cnv in run mode (since you can't select anything in run mode, this will ensure it's not selected). Then choose Properties. Now when I click Ok under these circumstances I get the segfault. -Jonathan Got it and fixed it. Will be uploading it shortly. Many thanks for the report! Best wishes, Ico ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] L2Ork Pd update now available
Another crasher: 1. Create an array from the Put menu. 2. Right-click and choose Open. 3. Inside the graph, click ctrl-1 4. Click to place the object box somewhere. Crash. -Jonathan --- On Wed, 12/15/10, Ivica Ico Bukvic i...@vt.edu wrote: From: Ivica Ico Bukvic i...@vt.edu Subject: Re: [PD] L2Ork Pd update now available To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at, l2ork-...@disis.music.vt.edu, l...@lists.linuxaudio.org, pik...@piksel.no Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 6:33 AM Can't reproduce over here. Are you running different libs and are they precompiled for l2ork? Also, after you've right-clicked you said cnv is not selected. At what point did you deselect it in the first place? Ico On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 19:35 -0800, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: segfault: 1. New patch. 2. Create [cnv]. 3. Save as test.pd 4. Right-click [cnv] and choose Properties. 5. Click Ok. Crash. (Hardy.) -Jonathan --- On Tue, 12/14/10, Ivica Ico Bukvic i...@vt.edu wrote: From: Ivica Ico Bukvic i...@vt.edu Subject: [PD] L2Ork Pd update now available To: pd-list@iem.at, l2ork-...@disis.music.vt.edu, l...@lists.linuxaudio.org, pik...@piksel.no Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 6:28 PM Apologies for cross-posting. It appears a few more bugs snuck into the stable release. At the same time I felt like the rest of the iemgui objects could really benefit from the resizing via gui, hence another release. 20101214 Changelog: *implemented resizable options for all iemgui objects (some require different behavior than others (e.g. number2 resizes horizontally based on the number of characters, while vertical resize also adjusts font size as well as gui triangle preceding characters, thus resulting in changes in width as well as height--consequently the target size tries to be as close to the mouse cursor as possible while altering width, height, font size and number of characters visible) *changed the whole project naming scheme to reflect L2Orkified version (pdextended becomes pd-l2ork, install dir is /usr/local/lib/pd-l2ork, uses default.pdl2ork config file, reflects different version) *changed appearance and updated content of the about.pd patch *fixed regression where help files for core objects were erroneously replaced by incorrect pddp documentation *synced backport of the new browser and adjusted appearance to match the theme *fixed bug where pddplink failed to open related files *fixed resizable canvas so that it updates scrollbars after resizing, dirties the canvas, and properly relocates scale handle when moved As always, comments/feedback are most appreciated. http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/?page_id=56 Best wishes, Ico ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] L2Ork Pd update now available
Plus some weirdness: [s2l] doesn't create. [symbol2list] does create, after which: [s2l] creates (?) -Jonathan --- On Wed, 12/15/10, Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [PD] L2Ork Pd update now available To: Ivica Ico Bukvic i...@vt.edu Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 8:27 AM Another crasher: 1. Create an array from the Put menu. 2. Right-click and choose Open. 3. Inside the graph, click ctrl-1 4. Click to place the object box somewhere. Crash. -Jonathan --- On Wed, 12/15/10, Ivica Ico Bukvic i...@vt.edu wrote: From: Ivica Ico Bukvic i...@vt.edu Subject: Re: [PD] L2Ork Pd update now available To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at, l2ork-...@disis.music.vt.edu, l...@lists.linuxaudio.org, pik...@piksel.no Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 6:33 AM Can't reproduce over here. Are you running different libs and are they precompiled for l2ork? Also, after you've right-clicked you said cnv is not selected. At what point did you deselect it in the first place? Ico On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 19:35 -0800, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: segfault: 1. New patch. 2. Create [cnv]. 3. Save as test.pd 4. Right-click [cnv] and choose Properties. 5. Click Ok. Crash. (Hardy.) -Jonathan --- On Tue, 12/14/10, Ivica Ico Bukvic i...@vt.edu wrote: From: Ivica Ico Bukvic i...@vt.edu Subject: [PD] L2Ork Pd update now available To: pd-list@iem.at, l2ork-...@disis.music.vt.edu, l...@lists.linuxaudio.org, pik...@piksel.no Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 6:28 PM Apologies for cross-posting. It appears a few more bugs snuck into the stable release. At the same time I felt like the rest of the iemgui objects could really benefit from the resizing via gui, hence another release. 20101214 Changelog: *implemented resizable options for all iemgui objects (some require different behavior than others (e.g. number2 resizes horizontally based on the number of characters, while vertical resize also adjusts font size as well as gui triangle preceding characters, thus resulting in changes in width as well as height--consequently the target size tries to be as close to the mouse cursor as possible while altering width, height, font size and number of characters visible) *changed the whole project naming scheme to reflect L2Orkified version (pdextended becomes pd-l2ork, install dir is /usr/local/lib/pd-l2ork, uses default.pdl2ork config file, reflects different version) *changed appearance and updated content of the about.pd patch *fixed regression where help files for core objects were erroneously replaced by incorrect pddp documentation *synced backport of the new browser and adjusted appearance to match the theme *fixed bug where pddplink failed to open related files *fixed resizable canvas so that it updates scrollbars after resizing, dirties the canvas, and properly relocates scale handle when moved As always, comments/feedback are most appreciated. http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/?page_id=56 Best wishes, Ico ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
