Re: Will we have a Netiquette on the PDML next year?

2006-12-30 Thread ann sanfedele
We are both right...
http://www.dvdpacific.com/item.asp?ID=722815

Well , I was leaning to She Wore a Yellow Ribbon but then lost confidence.
I'm sure I saw both movies roughtly 20 times each

Didn't know Brittles actually existed.  

ann

P. J. Alling wrote:

Probably both, but I was quoting Capt. Nathan C. Brittles...

ann sanfedele wrote:
  

P. J. Alling wrote:

  


 

never apoligize, it's a sign of weakness.


  

thank you, John Wayne :)

But was it She Wore a Yellow Ribbon or Sands of Iwa Jima?

ann



  




  




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Re: Question about DNG

2006-12-30 Thread Thibouille
Well usually not a problem but it happened not to know wether a shot
came from my FA 50 or my 18-55 or even my F 28.

I rarely can mix up shot from 50-200 and FA 100/3.5 so those are easy
but 3 others are sometimes not.

-- 

Thibault Massart aka Thibouille
--
*ist-D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ...

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Re: A bit more about K10D, please read.

2006-12-30 Thread David Savage
On 12/30/06, Digital Image Studio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 30/12/06, Boris Liberman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Indeed you're right. I've downloaded ACR 3.6 as was suggested but no
  improvement has come from it. Now if someone would build an ACR profile
  for K10D ;-)...

 I do, but for ACR2.4. I know there is at least one other PDMLer that
 has profiles and maybe even for 3.6 (if you ask nicely :-)

..!

Dave :-)

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Re: *istD AF

2006-12-30 Thread Carlos Royo
ann sanfedele escribió:


  

 Well the ears fit - but not the high-pitched voice.  That would be the 
 real bunny rabbit - Bugs.
 

But, although unfortunately I haven't had the pleasure to meet him in 
person, I bet he moves fast, at least when cycling. So he meets two of 
Cotty's requirements.

Carlos

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Re: PESO - Zen garden

2006-12-30 Thread Eric Featherstone
On 30/12/06, K.Takeshita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 12/29/06 8:11 PM, Eric Featherstone, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

  I'm also using a Minolta Scan
  Dual, though the version IV. I'm scanning in some of the other Japan
  photos at the moment.
  Actually, I got hold of an Elite 5400 (mk1 version) relatively cheaply
  from ebay a while ago but it seems to crash/hang an awful lot. I've
  not managed to get a useful scan out of it yet, which is frustrating.

 Are you happy with Scan Dual IV?
 Ever since I got rid of my early DiMage Scan Dual Something because of SCSI
 connection, I am out of scanner for two long years.  I need something decent
 and leaning toward Nikon but due to the low amount of scan I do these days,
 I hesitate to spend too much money for it.  Scan Dual IV still shows up new
 on eBay from time to time and I am awfully tempted.

 Re your crash/hang problem, I seem to remember I had similar problem before
 but thought it was gone when I switched to VueScan but not sure if it was
 the cure.

Hi Ken,
I'll have to get back to you after new year, am in a bit of a rush
this morning...
Cheers,
Eric.

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RE: PESOs: Corrales, New Mexico, Today

2006-12-30 Thread Bob W
Very nice - I like the pattern of the benches in the first shot.

Are you allowed to take colour pictures of snow in New Mexico? I
thought you were only allowed to take Ansel Adams wannabe photos in
New Mexico. Won't you be expelled from the Photographers Union or
something?

--
 Bob
 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
 Behalf Of Joseph Tainter
 Sent: 30 December 2006 04:11
 To: pdml@pdml.net
 Subject: PESOs: Corrales, New Mexico, Today
 
 Good thing the K10D is sealed. Comments welcome:
 
 http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc/pc/mypics/535671/display/7559971
 
 http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc/pc/mypics/535671/display/7559976
 
 http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc/pc/mypics/535671/display/7559977
 
 Joe
 
 
 
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RE: Doomsday is coming upon us?

2006-12-30 Thread Bob W
who was a goddess...

--
 Bob
 


 
 If you were god free, you'd be Frey:-).
 Paul


 
  I wouldn't reply to this normally, since I'm living in a God-Free
  zone, ...
 
  It's tough to be God-Free ... or not, depending upon your
  predilections and beliefs.
 
  I've been God-Free all my life and enjoy it.


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RE: Doomsday is coming upon us?

2006-12-30 Thread Bob W
not really - it's just a statement of utilitarianism. All the
arguments for and against utilitarianism apply to this. There are many
other ethical  political philosophies which are at least as logical
as utilitarianism, which the Vulcans could have chosen and which do
not carry the unpalatable consequences of utilitarianism. 

--
 Bob
 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
 Behalf Of P. J. Alling
 Sent: 30 December 2006 03:10
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?
 
 But a logical one...
 
 Bob W wrote:
  if this is the basis of the Vulcan political system it is quite
  clearly a fascist dictatorship. 
 
  --
   Bob
   

  On 28/12/06, John Francis, discombobulated, unleashed:
 

  Hmm.  The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
  
  Or the one ;-)
 

 
 

 
 
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 The more I know of men, the more I like my dog.
   -- Anne Louise Germaine de Stael
 
 
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Re: GESO: playing in the studio

2006-12-30 Thread John Forbes
The largest camera chain in he UK is called Jessops.  At the Isle of Man  
branch over Christmas they had four DSLRs in the window.  One was a Canon,  
the others were Pentax.  You had to go inside to see a Nikon.

John


On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 04:49:43 -, Paul Stenquist  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 On Dec 29, 2006, at 8:35 PM, Digital Image Studio wrote:

  However the competition obviously aren't too perturbed that
 Pentax maybe encroaching on their market (maybe because they aren't),
 they seem to be maintaining their higher pricing and still making
 sales and obviously far greater profits.


 I don't know what the international numbers are, but locally Pentax
 is definitely taking a bigger piece of the pie than ever before. All
 local camera stores are now selling the K cameras. Very few of them
 sold the *ist series cameras. One of the largest stores squeezed down
 their Nikon and Canon display area and added a Pentax area of equal
 size. I was in there yesterday to purchase a new printer and asked
 about the Petnax sales. The counterman I talked to said they were
 selling very well and that the Canon rep had complained about the
 loss of shelf space.
 Paul




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Re: Will we have a Netiquette on the PDML next year?

2006-12-30 Thread Bob Sullivan
from Agent Gibbs (Mark Harmon) in the TV series NCIS...  Bob S.

On 12/29/06, ann sanfedele [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Definitely a line from a John Wayne movie - hmmm
 time for google

 :)
 a

 P. J. Alling wrote:

 Probably both, but I was quoting Capt. Nathan C. Brittles...
 
 ann sanfedele wrote:
 
 
 P. J. Alling wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 never apoligize, it's a sign of weakness.
 
 
 
 
 thank you, John Wayne :)
 
 But was it She Wore a Yellow Ribbon or Sands of Iwa Jima?
 
 ann
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 



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Re: Bins

2006-12-30 Thread Cotty
On 30/12/06, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed:

Do any of you have these, and would like to comment? Any others I
should consider?


I have looked through a pair of these once and it was unbelievable.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Canon-Image-Stabilising-Weather-Binoculars/dp/
B7EE9B

The image stabilisation has to be experienced. I'm not in the market for
a pair, but if I were, I would consider them seriously. A hefty price,
but once seen.

Really, give them a try.

There are less expensive versions:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_ce/203-9185258-4153512?url=search-
alias%3Delectronicsfield-keywords=canon+binocularsGo.x=0Go.y=0Go=Go

http://tinyurl.com/wdyrr


Cheers,
  Cotty


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Re: Will we have a Netiquette on the PDML next year?

2006-12-30 Thread David Savage
Har!

That's where I recognise it from. Gibbs to McGee.

Cheers,

Dave

On 12/30/06, Bob Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 from Agent Gibbs (Mark Harmon) in the TV series NCIS...  Bob S.

 On 12/29/06, ann sanfedele [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Definitely a line from a John Wayne movie - hmmm
  time for google
 
  :)
  a
 
  P. J. Alling wrote:
 
  Probably both, but I was quoting Capt. Nathan C. Brittles...
  
  ann sanfedele wrote:
  
  
  P. J. Alling wrote:
  
  
  never apoligize, it's a sign of weakness.

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Re: GESO: playing in the studio

2006-12-30 Thread Cotty
On 29/12/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed:

My shoulder is sore just thinking about it.

Chiropractor bills so far this year: £300. Ibuprofen gel helps.

-- 


Cheers,
  Cotty


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Re: GESO: playing in the studio

2006-12-30 Thread Cotty
On 29/12/06, David J Brooks, discombobulated, unleashed:

I just weight our Claico cat. 27 lbs.:-)

Yeah but come one Dave, remove all the lace underwear, suspenders,
heels, and what's she weigh now?

-- 


Cheers,
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Re: PESOs: Corrales, New Mexico, Today

2006-12-30 Thread William Robb

- Original Message - 
From: Bob W Subject: RE: PESOs: Corrales, New Mexico, Today


 Very nice - I like the pattern of the benches in the first shot.

 Are you allowed to take colour pictures of snow in New Mexico? I
 thought you were only allowed to take Ansel Adams wannabe photos in
 New Mexico. Won't you be expelled from the Photographers Union or
 something?

They make you sign a release at the border that you are not a serious 
photographer.
Nice shots Joe. I take it snow isn't common in that part of NM?

William Robb 


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RE: Hoya - Pentax Merger - Sad News

2006-12-30 Thread Jens Bladt
Actually, I have tried to take pictures with an endoscope:
In the beginning of the eighties - the days of the great LX - the Pentax
importer in Denmark (now known as Fovitech) lend me a Pentax endoscope.
It's a tube / hose with lenses in it. I mounted on a video camera in order
to shoot a film. As a part of my job I had made an architectural model of a
part of at new town.
We needed to show the politicians what a walk in the streets of the new town
would look like.
So, we needed the endoscope to get the shots from a low point of view, that
would be realistic - resemble a film shot from eye level in the small (table
size) model town.

The movie turned out very well (although the images had a circular shape,
not rectangular).
Pentax wanted to help me do this, because they wanted to explore new ways of
using an endocsope for other things than photographing the inside of a human
stomach or whatever stuff like that.

If they ever did develop this use further, I don't know.
Today all this is really obsolete, since we now make virtual CAD models
and computer-movies for similar purposes.

Regards
Jens

http://www.jensbladt.dk
+45 56 63 77 11
+45 23 43 85 77
Skype: jensbladt248

-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af mike
wilson
Sendt: 26. december 2006 19:57
Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Emne: RE: Hoya - Pentax Merger - Sad News




 From: Jens Bladt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2006/12/26 Tue AM 11:26:07 GMT
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Subject: RE: Hoya - Pentax Merger - Sad News

 Mark wrote:
 The K10D may just be the swan-song of Pentax management - one last flash
 before they are gone.

 Then I better get one while they're still available :-)
 That will keep me going (with my current excellent glass collection) for
 another 3-4 years.
 No seriously:

 Why would teh joined forces with HOYA mean stopping the camera production?

 Hoya is  - like Pentax -  an important player in the glass business.
Joining
 management forces just means strengthining their role in the market
place -
 as glass manufactureres and imaging developeres.

 I also guess that the camera industry has a role promoting all other glass
 products (like endoscopes and other medical equipment, spectacles,
 car-windows, CD/DVD readers etc.). I also believe the camera section might
 be profitable - or at least profitable enough to develop further.

Not much glass in an endoscope - I hope.  I,m sorry, I can't quite make the
problem out.  Time for some fast glass.  Nurse!  The 85 1.4, please.  And
some smelling salts for the patient.



 This is why (from the Hoya webside): Read this
 http://www.hoya.co.jp/data/current/newsobj-368-pdf.pdf


 Regards


 Jens Bladt
 http://www.jensbladt.dk
 +45 56 63 77 11
 +45 23 43 85 77


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RE: 77 Ltd

2006-12-30 Thread Jens Bladt
Yes, very much:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bladt/173336922/in/set-72157594176741635/

Razor sharp fully opened.

Regard

Jens Bladt
http://www.jensbladt.dk
+45 56 63 77 11
+45 23 43 85 77
Skype: jensbladt248

-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af David J
Brooks
Sendt: 27. december 2006 18:48
Til: pdml@pdml.net
Emne: 77 Ltd


Everyone happy with their's.??

Dave

Equine Photography in York Region

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Re: A bit more about K10D, please read.

2006-12-30 Thread Boris Liberman
Hi!

 Indeed you're right. I've downloaded ACR 3.6 as was suggested but no
 improvement has come from it. Now if someone would build an ACR profile
 for K10D ;-)...
 
 I do, but for ACR2.4. I know there is at least one other PDMLer that
 has profiles and maybe even for 3.6 (if you ask nicely :-)

Rob, but when I open my ACR, it shows 2.4 in profile drop down menu. 
Thus I think your ACR 2.4 would do it nicely. Now, how exactly do I ask 
nicely?

Boris


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Re: So, with only a few days left, who's GFMing

2006-12-30 Thread Cotty
On 29/12/06, David J Brooks, discombobulated, unleashed:

Informal list. Whos planning to attend.

Check.

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RE: PESO - Frozen in Time

2006-12-30 Thread Tim Øsleby
Whatever I try to write, it ends up about the climate. I don't think that's
appropriate, so I'll leave it there.

It is refreshing to see that someone is still able to post a PESO. I like
the photo.


Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom
C
Sent: 30. desember 2006 01:58
To: pdml@pdml.net
Subject: PESO - Frozen in Time


http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=5386798


Tom C.



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Re: A bit more about K10D, please read.

2006-12-30 Thread Boris Liberman
Hi!

 On 30/12/06, Boris Liberman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Indeed you're right. I've downloaded ACR 3.6 as was suggested but no
 improvement has come from it. Now if someone would build an ACR profile
 for K10D ;-)...
 
 I do, but for ACR2.4. I know there is at least one other PDMLer that
 has profiles and maybe even for 3.6 (if you ask nicely :-)

My mistake. It used to be Camera Profile: ACR 2.4. Not is it Camera 
Profile: Embedded...

Boris


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Re: So, with only a few days left, who's GFMing

2006-12-30 Thread Tom Reese
Tom Reese  and Susan Wilson will be there again


 -- Original message --
From: Walter Hamler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Count me in. Now my wife says she will go. Also looks like her sister has 
 found us a place to stay with friends who actually live there on GFM. I'm 
 getting excited!
 
 Walt 
 
 
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Re: Question about DNG

2006-12-30 Thread Boris Liberman
Hi!

 Do you have that many lenses with the same focal length? It's pretty  
 easy for me to tell which lenses made what exposure simply by looking  
 at the focal lengths. This is my lens kit:
 
 14
 16FE (zenitar)
 21  20-35
 35  35-70
 50
 77
 100-300
 135

Godfrey, my kit is:
F 17-28 FE
FAJ 18-35
Tamron 28-75/2.8
F 80-200/4.7-5.6

FA 31/1.8
FA 43/1.9
FA 50/1.7
FA 77/1.8
Single element soft lens which is the only non AF non KA lens.

Now, obviously all Pentax lenses will work properly re transmitting 
their names. However very often I find myself setting Tamron 28-75 to 43 
mm focal length which I find remarkably funny (in both meanings of the 
word I know of).

Boris



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RE: 77 Ltd

2006-12-30 Thread David J Brooks
Wow.

Thanks

Dave

Quoting Jens Bladt [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Yes, very much:
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/bladt/173336922/in/set-72157594176741635/

 Razor sharp fully opened.

 Regard

 Jens Bladt
 http://www.jensbladt.dk
 +45 56 63 77 11
 +45 23 43 85 77
 Skype: jensbladt248

 -Oprindelig meddelelse-
 Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af David J
 Brooks
 Sendt: 27. december 2006 18:48
 Til: pdml@pdml.net
 Emne: 77 Ltd


 Everyone happy with their's.??

 Dave

 Equine Photography in York Region

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Re: Will we have a Netiquette on the PDML next year?

2006-12-30 Thread Paul Sorenson
That would be - She Wore A Yellow Ribbon

-P

ann sanfedele wrote:
 
 P. J. Alling wrote:
 
  

 never apoligize, it's a sign of weakness.

 
 thank you, John Wayne :)
 
 But was it She Wore a Yellow Ribbon or Sands of Iwa Jima?
 
 ann
 
 
 


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Re: So, with only a few days left, who's GFMing

2006-12-30 Thread David J Brooks
Sir

Dave

Quoting P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 So, what do you call them?

 David J Brooks wrote:
 Down boy.

 :-)

 Looks like you'll miss out on my bear calling lesson.


 Dave

 Quoting Walter Hamler [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


 Count me in. Now my wife says she will go. Also looks like her sister has
 found us a place to stay with friends who actually live there on GFM. I'm
 getting excited!

 Walt


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Re: So, with only a few days left, who's GFMing

2006-12-30 Thread Norm Baugher
I'll be there insert evil grin.
Norm
Scott - did you get my email offlist or did it get stuck in my spam filter?

Scott Loveless wrote:
 Yes.  I'll be there.  Not sure if I should steal the K100 from
 Christie or bring the chemicals again.

 On 12/29/06, David J Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 Equine Photography in York Region

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Re: So, with only a few days left, who's GFMing

2006-12-30 Thread Norm Baugher
Great for you Bob, I didn't get a hat at all - even after showing 
Brooksie the way to eat biscuits and gravy the year before...
Norm

Bob Sullivan wrote:
 We've still got our hats from last year!Bob  Lynn S.

 On 12/29/06, David J Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 Equine Photography in York Region

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Re: Will we have a Netiquette on the PDML next year?

2006-12-30 Thread ann sanfedele
A little later than the original quote :)
ann



Bob Sullivan wrote:

from Agent Gibbs (Mark Harmon) in the TV series NCIS...  Bob S.

On 12/29/06, ann sanfedele [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

Definitely a line from a John Wayne movie - hmmm
time for google

:)
a

P. J. Alling wrote:



Probably both, but I was quoting Capt. Nathan C. Brittles...

ann sanfedele wrote:

  

P. J. Alling wrote:never apoligize, it's a sign of weakness.



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Re: Will we have a Netiquette on the PDML next year?

2006-12-30 Thread ann sanfedele
Did he swagger in Wayne like fashion?

ann

David Savage wrote:

Har!

That's where I recognise it from. Gibbs to McGee.

Cheers,

Dave

On 12/30/06, Bob Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

from Agent Gibbs (Mark Harmon) in the TV series NCIS...  Bob S.

On 12/29/06, ann sanfedele [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Definitely a line from a John Wayne movie - hmmm
time for google

:)
a

P. J. Alling wrote:

  

Probably both, but I was quoting Capt. Nathan C. Brittles...

ann sanfedele wrote:




P. J. Alling wrote:
  

never apoligize, it's a sign of weakness.



  




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Re: PESOs: Corrales, New Mexico, Today

2006-12-30 Thread Jack Davis
Snow exposures very well done. Enjoyed the peek and can appreciate the
wide edge to edge performance of the 16~45 at 20mm setting.

Jack
--- Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Nice to see some photos... strange to see snow in Corrales! I know it
  
 does, I've just never been there while there was any snow.
 
 Godfrey
 
 
 On Dec 29, 2006, at 8:10 PM, Joseph Tainter wrote:
 
  Good thing the K10D is sealed. Comments welcome:
 
  http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc/pc/mypics/535671/display/7559971
  http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc/pc/mypics/535671/display/7559976
  http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc/pc/mypics/535671/display/7559977
 
 
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Re: Introduction

2006-12-30 Thread Kostas Kavoussanakis
On Fri, 29 Dec 2006, P. J. Alling wrote:

 The important thing, Kostas, is how many do you still have?  (If it's
 less than 10 you need more...)

I am OK even by your criteria :-)

Kostas (should really be losing some more and using the rest much 
more)

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Re: Bins

2006-12-30 Thread Norm Baugher
Bob - there is no place on this list for that kind of talk...
Norm

Bob W wrote:
 This must be some kind of first for this millennium - an on-topic post
 about Pentax equipment which is neither photographic nor endoscopic.

 I am thinking about buying some birding binoculars. I am not a
 bird-watcher, but I do enjoy looking at them when I go on jaunts at
 the weekends, particularly around the Thames Estuary, and I'd like to
 be able to look at them a bit more closely. My understanding of
 birding binoculars is that they should be about 8x42, focus quickly to
 less than 2 metres, preferably be reasonably waterproof and bumpproof,
 and lightweight. 

 I already have an old pair of Pentax field glasses, but I think they
 were designed for watching tanks attack Stalingrad, and they are not
 suitable for my needs. 

 The spec for birding binoculars seems to make them quite expensive in
 general, but Pentax look as though they produce something which gives
 relatively good bang:buck
 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pentax-8X42-DCF-WP-Binoculars/dp/B70GS8

 Do any of you have these, and would like to comment? Any others I
 should consider?

 Thanks,
 Bob


   


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Re: A bit more about K10D, please read.

2006-12-30 Thread David Savage
On 12/30/06, Boris Liberman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi!

  On 30/12/06, Boris Liberman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Indeed you're right. I've downloaded ACR 3.6 as was suggested but no
  improvement has come from it. Now if someone would build an ACR profile
  for K10D ;-)...
 
  I do, but for ACR2.4. I know there is at least one other PDMLer that
  has profiles and maybe even for 3.6 (if you ask nicely :-)

 My mistake. It used to be Camera Profile: ACR 2.4. Not is it Camera
 Profile: Embedded...

http://www.arach.net.au/~savage/Misc/K10D%20Profiles.zip

Credit goes to Rob for making the profiles. I just updated them to
work with ACR 3.6

Cheers,

Dave

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Re: PESO - Frozen in Time

2006-12-30 Thread rg2
I love that photo-makes me miss climates where things like that can actually 
happen.

rg2
- Original Message - 
From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: pdml@pdml.net
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 7:58 PM
Subject: PESO - Frozen in Time



 http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=5386798


 Tom C.



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Re: So, with only a few days left, who's GFMing

2006-12-30 Thread Rick Womer
As will I.

Rick

--- Tom Reese [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Tom Reese  and Susan Wilson will be there again
 
 
  -- Original message
 --
 From: Walter Hamler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Count me in. Now my wife says she will go. Also
 looks like her sister has 
  found us a place to stay with friends who actually
 live there on GFM. I'm 
  getting excited!
  
  Walt 
  
  
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http://www.photo.net/photos/RickW

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PESO - Office Christmas

2006-12-30 Thread DagT
Just a small report from the real world...
http://foto.no/cgi-bin/bildekritikk/vis_bilde.cgi?id=280783

DagT




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Re: OT: The value of DP Review.

2006-12-30 Thread keith_w
William Robb wrote:
 http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1029message=21437336
 
 I just can't say enough about this thread.
 
 William Robb
 

I think Lawrence was on the sauce when he wrote THAT one!  ;-)

keith whaley

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Re: So, with only a few days left, who's GFMing

2006-12-30 Thread Mat Maessen
On 12/29/06, David J Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Informal list. Whos planning to attend.

I'll be there, and I still have my hat.

-Mat

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Re: GESO: playing in the studio

2006-12-30 Thread keith_w
Cotty wrote:
 On 29/12/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed:
 
 My shoulder is sore just thinking about it.

 Chiropractor bills so far this year: £300. Ibuprofen gel helps.
 

A gel?
Is that a topical application, or a gelatin capsule, to swallow?

keith


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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

2006-12-30 Thread mike wilson
William Robb wrote:
 - Original Message - 
 From: Tom C Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?
 
 
 
Your freedom ends at the tip of my nose.
It is the theory that the anti smoking lobby has used to force the
discontinuance of smoking in public places.

And I agree with that 100%.

 
 
 I agree with it to a point, Smokers are this generation's lepers, so we use 
 the law to find ways to remove them from our society.
 What happens when lobby groups start forming to end motor vehicle pollution 
 using exactly the same precedent as was used on the smokers?
 Frankly, they could make a better case than the non smoking lobby.

Already been done.  The argument worked very well to get rid of lead 
from fuel.

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Re: GESO: playing in the studio

2006-12-30 Thread Adam Maas
Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
 On Dec 29, 2006, at 7:04 PM, Adam Maas wrote:
 Only problem is the L1 locks up when flushing the buffer, unless  
 they've
 fixed that in a firmware update.
 
 Not sure what you mean there. The one I snapped with at the store  
 seems to do buffered writes, and be fairly quick about it too. Didn't  
 have enough time to explore it very far, though.
 
 If you're referring to the DPReview preview of the L1, that was a pre- 
 production camera and likely had some bugs still.

Luminous Landscape preview actually, as well as the first demo I tried 
(although that may ahve been the same camera, Reichmann is a local and 
the first demo I played with was a loner from Panasonic to Henrys). If 
they've fixed it, I'm very glad.

 
 And no normal or wide primes. The shortest prime currently  
 available is
 the 50mm f2 Macro, which is a 100 equivalent. Leica has announced a  
 25mm
 f1.4 for it, but that's it. Between that and the poor high-ISO
 performance, the L1 isn't the camera it could be.
 
 This was ultimately the reason I went with Pentax over the Olympus  
 E1 .. I prefer fast primes and the Oly 4/3 system is heavily weighted  
 to zoom lenses at present. However, as I mentioned, I would see this  
 as a relatively limited system ... just the camera and the two zoom  
 lenses to cover my focal length desires ... and it would not replace  
 the Pentax K10D at all. I generally don't work with much over ISO 400  
 most of the time, if it does a *decent* job at ISO 800 it would be  
 fine for a limited use system. The review of the Leica model in  
 Amateur Photographer was quite enthusiastic, and I understand them to  
 be a reasonably conservative lot.

Gotta admit, that 7-11 (14-22mm-e) zoom is interesting, but I have the 
same bias towards fast primes you do.

 
 BTW: it's a thought experiment mostly anyway. The Pentax K10D is a  
 superb camera, I have most everything I need for my kit already. I'm  
 right on the cusp of selling off my other two Pentax DSLR bodies, the  
 Sony R1 and KM A2 to buy a second K10D body and one more lens.  
 They're the basis of my work. I just like some of the ergonomics and  
 detail design that went into the PanaLeica SLR, that's all. :-)
 
 Godfrey
 

-Adam,
Who agrees on how nice the ergonomics are on the L1

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Re: PESO - Office Christmas

2006-12-30 Thread David Savage
You really should spend less time photographing your paperwork  more
time working on it.

vbg

Cheers,

Dave

On 12/31/06, DagT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Just a small report from the real world...
 http://foto.no/cgi-bin/bildekritikk/vis_bilde.cgi?id=280783

 DagT

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Re: PESO - Office Christmas

2006-12-30 Thread Jack Davis
Coat hangers can be very useful, huh?
Cute!

Jack
--- DagT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Just a small report from the real world...
 http://foto.no/cgi-bin/bildekritikk/vis_bilde.cgi?id=280783
 
 DagT
 
 
 
 
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Re: So, with only a few days left, who's GFMing

2006-12-30 Thread David J Brooks
Quoting Norm Baugher [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Great for you Bob, I didn't get a hat at all - even after showing
 Brooksie the way to eat biscuits and gravy the year before...
 Norm

Was that you.??:-)

You took off to fast on Sunday, man.

I'll set one aside for ya.

I hear a lot of people were trying to fiqure out what a PDML was.  
Looks like we'll be more visible this year.

Looks like i' should have enough left to cover those who need one.

Dave

 Bob Sullivan wrote:
 We've still got our hats from last year!Bob  Lynn S.

 On 12/29/06, David J Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Equine Photography in York Region

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RE: PESOs: Corrales, New Mexico, Today

2006-12-30 Thread Markus Maurer
Even better than the sealing of the K10D was the photographer this time.
The first one is the best for me but all are very good.
Still no snow here
Markus

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
Joseph Tainter
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 5:11 AM
To: pdml@pdml.net
Subject: PESOs: Corrales, New Mexico, Today


Good thing the K10D is sealed. Comments welcome:

http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc/pc/mypics/535671/display/7559971

http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc/pc/mypics/535671/display/7559976

http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc/pc/mypics/535671/display/7559977

Joe



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Re: Question about DNG

2006-12-30 Thread Adam Maas
Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
 On Dec 28, 2006, at 11:39 PM, Thibouille wrote:
 Well I can be useful.
 I do not take much photographs (mostly time constraints) and I do not
 always (specially months later) remember which lens I used. I'd be
 happy to know for sure. Of course, it 's not a big issue, but still
 helps me to identify potential performance problems.
 
 I agree that it can be useful, but as a point of importance it is  
 somewhat lacking.
 
 Do you have that many lenses with the same focal length? It's pretty  
 easy for me to tell which lenses made what exposure simply by looking  
 at the focal lengths. This is my lens kit:
 
 14
 16FE (zenitar)
 21  20-35
 35  35-70
 50
 77
 100-300
 135
 
 I only extremely rarely use the 35-70 or 100-300, so the most likely  
 confusion that might arise is if the 20-35 is at 35mm or 21mm focal  
 length specifically. The former is far more likely than the  
 latter ... most of my exposures with it seem to be in the vicinity of  
 28mm however.
 
 My A50/2.8 Macro sets no FL information at all in the photos, same as  
 the Zeni16, but then it's fairly impossible to mix those two up as  
 the A50 will put in aperture information where the Zeni16 will not.
 
 Godfrey
 
 

Your A50 should set FL info on the K10D if you've configured SR and are 
running the latest firmware (I know this was added to the K100D, 
confused me for a bit as I usually use 55mm for 50mm lenses as I find it 
slightly more effective).

-Adam

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Re: A bit more about K10D, please read.

2006-12-30 Thread Boris Liberman
Dave,

 Credit goes to Rob for making the profiles. I just updated them to
 work with ACR 3.6

Great many thanks to you and even greater many thanks to Rob. Where do I 
put the contents of the archive?

Thanks.

Boris

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RE: Introduction

2006-12-30 Thread Markus Maurer
Hi Boris
did you really get some snow in Israel, I think I saw something white in the
news ?
I will take some frozen nature photos tomorrow in lack of snow here :-)
greetings
Markus

--

Oh, by the way, I am from Israel being the Middle Eastern division of
the PDML army ;-).

Cheers!

Boris



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RE: long lost

2006-12-30 Thread Markus Maurer
Hi Rebekah
Welcome back and greetings from Switzerland ;-)
Markus

-

 Hey you guys!

 My name is Rebekah, I used to participate in the list about two years ago.

Welcome back and greetings from Middle East ;-).

Boris



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Re: Will we have a Netiquette on the PDML next year?

2006-12-30 Thread Tom C

Apology is not a sign of weakness.  It's a sign of strength and honesty.

Only fools think they make no mistakes. It's a wiser man that recognizes and 
admits their mistakes.


In this case, though I thought there was nothing to apologize for, since he 
simply started a topic, but others took it where it went.


An interesting discussion despite the abuses hurled back and forth.

Tom C.




From: P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
Subject: Re: Will we have a Netiquette on the PDML next year?
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 22:50:07 -0500

Tim, Tim, Tim, never apoligize, it's a sign of weakness.  By the way, I
don't take any of this crap particularly seriously.  I'll even buy any
one of you guys a beer, where ever I meet you.  Providing I have any
money at the time.  Even Jostein, who came close to calling me a Nazi.
Hell I should have declared that thread dead and myself the winner based
on the Newsgroup Nazi rule...

Tim Øsleby wrote:
 Don't we already have a netiquette? I'm referring to Graywolf regular
 posting. I think it is consensus about that.
 This reminds me. The Doomsday thread was political. I was the one who
 started the madness. I feel a bit bad about that.

 My conclusion so far, is that we need to remind each other and our 
selves

 about the established traditions.


 Tim
 Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
 Markus Maurer
 Sent: 29. desember 2006 23:31
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 Subject: Will we have a Netiquette on the PDML next year?

 Hi Pentaxians
 what happened to this list lately?
 I notice an incredible increase in the use of strong and unpleasant 
words

 here even from some of the older members for no visible reason.
 Some of the mostly OT themes even end with personal insults.

 Will this change for good next year?
 Would sending you some PESO help?

 Markus







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RE: PESO - Frozen in Time

2006-12-30 Thread Markus Maurer
What happened to your Bird project Tim?
Any news from the crappy tele lens front?
greetings
Markus

It is refreshing to see that someone is still able to post a PESO. I like
the photo.


Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
 


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Re: A bit more about K10D, please read.

2006-12-30 Thread David Savage
G'day Boris

C:\Documents and Settings\USER\Application Data\Adobe\CameraRaw\Settings

USER being your user account.

Cheers,

Dave

On 12/31/06, Boris Liberman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Dave,

  Credit goes to Rob for making the profiles. I just updated them to
  work with ACR 3.6

 Great many thanks to you and even greater many thanks to Rob. Where do I
 put the contents of the archive?

 Thanks.

 Boris

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Re: Bins

2006-12-30 Thread Tom C
I  agree totally.  Even though I love the Pentax binoculars, I really like 
the Canon IS glasses.  For the pair I want though, it's 3x the price of the 
Pentax.



Tom C.



From: Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
To: pentax list PDML@pdml.net
Subject: Re: Bins
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 12:45:42 +

On 30/12/06, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed:

 Do any of you have these, and would like to comment? Any others I
 should consider?


I have looked through a pair of these once and it was unbelievable.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Canon-Image-Stabilising-Weather-Binoculars/dp/
B7EE9B

The image stabilisation has to be experienced. I'm not in the market for
a pair, but if I were, I would consider them seriously. A hefty price,
but once seen.

Really, give them a try.

There are less expensive versions:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_ce/203-9185258-4153512?url=search-
alias%3Delectronicsfield-keywords=canon+binocularsGo.x=0Go.y=0Go=Go

http://tinyurl.com/wdyrr


Cheers,
   Cotty


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Re: PESO - Frozen in Time

2006-12-30 Thread Tom C
Thanks all for thr comments on the photo. I may play with contrast a bit 
more.

I was surprised how this pudde of water had frozen in apparently successive 
stages evidenced by the concentric rings.  I've seen it before but don't 
quite understand the mechnanism other than I assume the puddle may feeze 
from the outside shallower water in towards the center.

Yes the rings are 'time'. :-)


Tom C.



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RE: Bins

2006-12-30 Thread Bob W
I suppose I should reply F Y A!

--
 Bob
 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
 Behalf Of Norm Baugher
 Sent: 30 December 2006 15:22
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 Subject: Re: Bins
 
 Bob - there is no place on this list for that kind of talk...
 Norm
 
 Bob W wrote:
  This must be some kind of first for this millennium - an 
 on-topic post
  about Pentax equipment which is neither photographic nor
endoscopic.
 
  I am thinking about buying some birding binoculars. I am not a
  bird-watcher, but I do enjoy looking at them when I go on jaunts
at
  the weekends, particularly around the Thames Estuary, and 
 I'd like to
  be able to look at them a bit more closely. My understanding of
  birding binoculars is that they should be about 8x42, focus 
 quickly to
  less than 2 metres, preferably be reasonably waterproof and 
 bumpproof,
  and lightweight. 
 
  I already have an old pair of Pentax field glasses, but I think
they
  were designed for watching tanks attack Stalingrad, and they are
not
  suitable for my needs. 
 
  The spec for birding binoculars seems to make them quite 
 expensive in
  general, but Pentax look as though they produce something 
 which gives
  relatively good bang:buck
 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pentax-8X42-DCF-WP-Binoculars/dp/B70GS8
 
  Do any of you have these, and would like to comment? Any others I
  should consider?
 
  Thanks,
  Bob
 
 

 
 
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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

2006-12-30 Thread William Robb

- Original Message - 
From: mike wilson Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?



 Already been done.  The argument worked very well to get rid of lead
 from fuel.

A situation where politics and reality meet with less than optimal results.
By coincidence, my cousin, a fellow named Robert Sharpe was a chemical 
engineer for Royal Dutch Shell at that time. He was put in charge of a 
design team finding a substitute for tetraethyl lead. They came up with a 
product called methyl tertiary-butyl ether (MTBE).
Several years ago, we got together for a rare extended family dinner, and we 
got to talking about motor fuels. I was involved in souping up motorcycles 
at the time, so gasoline additives were of some interest to me.
Anyway, as far as he was concerned, MTBE was a movement sideways as far as 
noxious additives were concerned.

William Robb 


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Re: GFM: Nature Photography Weekend reminder - ONLY 10 DAYS TO GO

2006-12-30 Thread mike wilson
Tim Øsleby wrote:

 Please don't wait too long with the details. I need to prep a lot before I
 can make it happen. 
 I need to dig up some money, and make arrangements with my son who is living
 in Mansfield area this year. 
 
 
 Tim
 Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)

Depending on how you travel over, you can stop here if needed.

  
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
 Digital Image Studio
 Sent: 28. desember 2006 16:22
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 Subject: Re: GFM: Nature Photography Weekend reminder - ONLY 10 DAYS TO GO
 
 On 24/12/06, Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
On 23/12/06, Tim Øsleby, discombobulated, unleashed:


I may be in UK around that time. I'm going over to visit my youngest son.
 
 I
 
will be going, but the time frame is uncertain at the moment.
If I'm there, I'm very keen.

March for a London PDML then. Bob W will be game. John? Mike? Steve
Jolly? Anyone else??
 
 
 Hi Guys,
 
 A bit late on my reply but yes that would be great, I'll get back with
 definite dates as soon as I'm able, International flights are booked
 but internal travel isn't yet defined.
 
 Cheers,
 


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RE: So, with only a few days left, who's GFMing

2006-12-30 Thread Bob W
It's my 50th birthday in June, and it looks as though I will be
celebrating it up a mountain. 

But not in America. 

I think I will either do the Tour de Mont Blanc or go above the Arctic
Circle in Norway and look at the midnight sun from a mountain top with
a friend.

--
 Bob
 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
 Behalf Of Cotty
 Sent: 30 December 2006 13:31
 To: pentax list
 Subject: Re: So, with only a few days left, who's GFMing
 
 On 29/12/06, David J Brooks, discombobulated, unleashed:
 
 Informal list. Whos planning to attend.
 
 Check.
 
 -- 
 
 
 Cheers,
   Cotty
 


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RE: Bins

2006-12-30 Thread Bob W
I'm sure they're very good, but I'm not about to spend that much
money! The cheaper ones are under-specified in other important areas
which I don't want to do without.

--
 Bob
 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
 Behalf Of Cotty
 Sent: 30 December 2006 12:46
 To: pentax list
 Subject: Re: Bins
 
 On 30/12/06, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed:
 
 Do any of you have these, and would like to comment? Any others I
 should consider?
 
 
 I have looked through a pair of these once and it was unbelievable.
 
 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Canon-Image-Stabilising-Weather-Binoc
 ulars/dp/
 B7EE9B
 
 The image stabilisation has to be experienced. I'm not in the 
 market for
 a pair, but if I were, I would consider them seriously. A hefty
price,
 but once seen.
 
 Really, give them a try.
 
 There are less expensive versions:
 
 http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_ce/203-9185258-4153512?ur
 l=search-
 alias%3Delectronicsfield-keywords=canon+binocularsGo.x=0Go.
 y=0Go=Go
 
 http://tinyurl.com/wdyrr
 
 
 Cheers,
   Cotty
 
 
 ___/\__
 ||   (O)   | People, Places, Pastiche
 ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com
 _
 
 
 
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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

2006-12-30 Thread mike wilson
William Robb wrote:

 - Original Message - 
 From: mike wilson Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?
 
 
 
Already been done.  The argument worked very well to get rid of lead
from fuel.
 
 
 A situation where politics and reality meet with less than optimal results.
 By coincidence, my cousin, a fellow named Robert Sharpe was a chemical 
 engineer for Royal Dutch Shell at that time. He was put in charge of a 
 design team finding a substitute for tetraethyl lead. They came up with a 
 product called methyl tertiary-butyl ether (MTBE).
 Several years ago, we got together for a rare extended family dinner, and we 
 got to talking about motor fuels. I was involved in souping up motorcycles 
 at the time, so gasoline additives were of some interest to me.
 Anyway, as far as he was concerned, MTBE was a movement sideways as far as 
 noxious additives were concerned.

More like backwards, as far as effects from exhausts are concerned. 
Particulate lead is much less harmful than some of the stuff that comes 
out of unleaded, catalysed engines.  TEL is at least as nasty as MTBE 
when you are filling up, though.

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Re: Introduction

2006-12-30 Thread Boris Liberman
Hi!

 Hi Boris
 did you really get some snow in Israel, I think I saw something white in the
 news ?
 I will take some frozen nature photos tomorrow in lack of snow here :-)
 greetings
 Markus

Of course we do. We even have our own ski resort. It does not 
necessarily open every year, but there is always a chance. Just few days 
ago it snowed in Jerusalem and in high regions up North ;-).

Boris


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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

2006-12-30 Thread P. J. Alling
Not all things that fascist dictatorships do are logical, the Vulcans 
would be totally logical.

Bob W wrote:
 not really - it's just a statement of utilitarianism. All the
 arguments for and against utilitarianism apply to this. There are many
 other ethical  political philosophies which are at least as logical
 as utilitarianism, which the Vulcans could have chosen and which do
 not carry the unpalatable consequences of utilitarianism. 

 --
  Bob
  

   
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
 Behalf Of P. J. Alling
 Sent: 30 December 2006 03:10
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

 But a logical one...

 Bob W wrote:
 
 if this is the basis of the Vulcan political system it is quite
 clearly a fascist dictatorship. 

 --
  Bob
  
   
   
 On 28/12/06, John Francis, discombobulated, unleashed:

   
   
 Hmm.  The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
 
 
 Or the one ;-)

   
   
   
   
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Re: Will we have a Netiquette on the PDML next year?

2006-12-30 Thread P. J. Alling
Too much trivia, Brittles was the John Wayne character in She wore a 
yellow ribbon.

ann sanfedele wrote:
 Definitely a line from a John Wayne movie - hmmm
 time for google

 :)
 a

 P. J. Alling wrote:

   
 Probably both, but I was quoting Capt. Nathan C. Brittles...

 ann sanfedele wrote:
  

 
 P. J. Alling wrote:

  


   
 never apoligize, it's a sign of weakness.


  

 
 thank you, John Wayne :)

 But was it She Wore a Yellow Ribbon or Sands of Iwa Jima?

 ann



  


   
  

 



   


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Re: Will we have a Netiquette on the PDML next year?

2006-12-30 Thread ann sanfedele
Tom - I think the quip of PJ's was just a quip -
but maybe I'm wrong.  I can't imagine anyone really believing that.
and  Peter's next line indicates that he was um just kidding I think

ann


Tom C wrote:

 Apology is not a sign of weakness.  It's a sign of strength and honesty.

 Only fools think they make no mistakes. It's a wiser man that 
 recognizes and admits their mistakes.

 In this case, though I thought there was nothing to apologize for, 
 since he simply started a topic, but others took it where it went.

 An interesting discussion despite the abuses hurled back and forth.

 Tom C.



 From: P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Subject: Re: Will we have a Netiquette on the PDML next year?
 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 22:50:07 -0500

 Tim, Tim, Tim, never apoligize, it's a sign of weakness.  By the way, I
 don't take any of this crap particularly seriously.  I'll even buy any
 one of you guys a beer, where ever I meet you.  Providing I have any
 money at the time.  Even Jostein, who came close to calling me a Nazi.
 Hell I should have declared that thread dead and myself the winner based
 on the Newsgroup Nazi rule...

 Tim Øsleby wrote:
  Don't we already have a netiquette? I'm referring to Graywolf regular
  posting. I think it is consensus about that.
  This reminds me. The Doomsday thread was political. I was the one who
  started the madness. I feel a bit bad about that.
 
  My conclusion so far, is that we need to remind each other and our 
 selves
  about the established traditions.
 
 
  Tim
  Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
 Behalf Of
  Markus Maurer
  Sent: 29. desember 2006 23:31
  To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
  Subject: Will we have a Netiquette on the PDML next year?
 
  Hi Pentaxians
  what happened to this list lately?
  I notice an incredible increase in the use of strong and 
 unpleasant words
  here even from some of the older members for no visible reason.
  Some of the mostly OT themes even end with personal insults.
 
  Will this change for good next year?
  Would sending you some PESO help?
 
  Markus
 
 
 
 
 


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PESO - Hertzlia Marina vs K10D

2006-12-30 Thread Boris Liberman
Hi there.

http://not.contaxg.com/document.php?id=16034

One more of K10D trial shots. I am surprised by the colors that came out 
on this shot. In reality it was much more dull and gray. I did only very 
minor tweaking in ACR.

Brutal and honest comments are sought after.

Boris

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Re: A bit more about K10D, please read.

2006-12-30 Thread Boris Liberman
Thanks!!!

 G'day Boris
 
 C:\Documents and Settings\USER\Application Data\Adobe\CameraRaw\Settings
 
 USER being your user account.
 
 Cheers,

Boris

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Re: So, with only a few days left, who's GFMing

2006-12-30 Thread P. J. Alling
That can't work, they'll eat your head anyway.

David J Brooks wrote:
 Sir

 Dave

 Quoting P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

   
 So, what do you call them?

 David J Brooks wrote:
 
 Down boy.

 :-)

 Looks like you'll miss out on my bear calling lesson.


 Dave

 Quoting Walter Hamler [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


   
 Count me in. Now my wife says she will go. Also looks like her sister has
 found us a place to stay with friends who actually live there on GFM. I'm
 getting excited!

 Walt


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 Equine Photography in York Region


   
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 Equine Photography in York Region

   


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Re: PESOs: Corrales, New Mexico, Today

2006-12-30 Thread Joseph Tainter
  Are you allowed to take colour pictures of snow in New Mexico? I
  thought you were only allowed to take Ansel Adams wannabe photos in
  New Mexico. Won't you be expelled from the Photographers Union or
  something?

They make you sign a release at the border that you are not a serious
photographer.
Nice shots Joe. I take it snow isn't common in that part of NM?

William Robb

-

We used to get one good snow (6 inches/15 cm) per winter, plus several 
smaller ones. Then over the past 15 years or so those have become fewer 
and fewer. Now we have had two of them within 9 days. Albuquerque 
airport set a record yesterday. I haven't ventured outside, but my yard 
looks like it has about 15 inches/38 cm.

Thanks for the comments, everyone. I spotmetered on the buildings, then 
adjusted exposure according to the histogram--generally downward.

Joe

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Re: A bit more about K10D, please read.

2006-12-30 Thread Perry Pellechia
Anyone know if these profiles work with Lightroom, and if they do
where they would go in a Windows system?

On 12/30/06, Boris Liberman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Thanks!!!

  G'day Boris
 
  C:\Documents and Settings\USER\Application Data\Adobe\CameraRaw\Settings
 
  USER being your user account.
 
  Cheers,

 Boris

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-- 

Perry Pellechia

Primary email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Alternate email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Home Page: http://homer.chem.sc.edu/perry


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A better bounce card

2006-12-30 Thread Markus Maurer
Maybe old new for some but refreshing for me:

How to build a free better flash bounce card a video   now I have to
look for some of that flexible foam material :-)
Hey, it's similar to my cream can flash diffuser project ;-)
enjoy
Markus

http://www.abetterbouncecard.com/


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Re: PESO - Hertzlia Marina vs K10D

2006-12-30 Thread P. J. Alling
It's nice but kind of ordinary.  As Capra said, get closer.

Boris Liberman wrote:
 Hi there.

 http://not.contaxg.com/document.php?id=16034

 One more of K10D trial shots. I am surprised by the colors that came out 
 on this shot. In reality it was much more dull and gray. I did only very 
 minor tweaking in ACR.

 Brutal and honest comments are sought after.

 Boris

   


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Re: Geso: Grandfather's Christmas

2006-12-30 Thread Boris Liberman
Hi!

 You may recall a couple months ago I was asking about recovering images from 
 a roll of 620 film left exposed in my grandfather's Kodak TLR camera for 
 many years.
 I sent the film to Rapid Photo in Pennsylvania who say on their website that 
 they  do that sort of work.  Several weeks (and several dollars) later, I 
 have four images.
 Now remember, my grandfather has been dead since before I was born and  I 
 don't believe anybody's used this camera since he was around so... these 
 images are well over thirty years old and were just sitting in the camera, 
 waiting for somebody to save them.
 Merry Christmas Grandpa.
 
 http://bellsouthpwp.net/c/b/cbwaters/Photo/Grandpa's%20Christmas/index.html

Cory, this is really cool. Feels like looking through a time machine. Oh 
memories, memories...

Boris

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Re: PESO - Frozen in Time

2006-12-30 Thread Jack Davis
Wind?

Jack
--- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Thanks all for thr comments on the photo. I may play with contrast a
 bit 
 more.
 
 I was surprised how this pudde of water had frozen in apparently
 successive 
 stages evidenced by the concentric rings.  I've seen it before but
 don't 
 quite understand the mechnanism other than I assume the puddle may
 feeze 
 from the outside shallower water in towards the center.
 
 Yes the rings are 'time'. :-)
 
 
 Tom C.
 
 
 
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Re: GESO: playing in the studio

2006-12-30 Thread Boris Liberman
Hi!

 I visited my friend Marc Williams in his studio this morning. Marc 
 shoots a lot of ad work as well as some very artful wedding portfolios. 
 His equipment ranges from film Leicas (MP3, M7) to an M8, Canon Mark II 
 DS and 5D, a Hassy with a digital back, and a Mamiya RZ67 with a 
 digital back. In other words, visiting his studio is like a trip to the 
 toy store. Here's the Mamiya RZ67 with the Leaf 33 megapixel digital 
 back. In case you're in the market for one of these, the back alone 
 goes for 23,000 US:
 http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=5386311size=lg
 Here''s Marc shooting me. I shot him with the K10D and the DA 12-24 at 
 24mm. The stop was f5.6. The shutter was 1/6th of a second at ISO 640. 
 Shake reduction works:
 http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=5386304
 And here's Marc's shot of me with the MZ67. I know it was ISO 800, 
 because he was testing an upgrade to the leaf back that eliminated a 
 problem at high ISO. The lens was wide open. I don't know what lens it 
 was, but I'd guess around 100mm. The camera was on a tripod, or more 
 accurately, an elaborate support system:
 http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=5386297size=lg

Pleasure to meet you (half) face to face, Paul. I should notice that you 
most probably have way bigger hand than I do, which probably helps you 
to hold your steady title ;-).

Indeed, I still remember that visit to Pentax Norway that I had thanks 
to Jostein. It was great fun.

Boris

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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

2006-12-30 Thread P. J. Alling
Apparently Ethanol works almost as well and is somewhat less toxic, 
however it's distressingly low tech.

William Robb wrote:
 - Original Message - 
 From: mike wilson Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?


   
 Already been done.  The argument worked very well to get rid of lead
 from fuel.
 

 A situation where politics and reality meet with less than optimal results.
 By coincidence, my cousin, a fellow named Robert Sharpe was a chemical 
 engineer for Royal Dutch Shell at that time. He was put in charge of a 
 design team finding a substitute for tetraethyl lead. They came up with a 
 product called methyl tertiary-butyl ether (MTBE).
 Several years ago, we got together for a rare extended family dinner, and we 
 got to talking about motor fuels. I was involved in souping up motorcycles 
 at the time, so gasoline additives were of some interest to me.
 Anyway, as far as he was concerned, MTBE was a movement sideways as far as 
 noxious additives were concerned.

 William Robb 


   


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Re: PESO: Dessert Family

2006-12-30 Thread Boris Liberman
Hi!

 G'day All,
 
 Just a family snapshot:
 
 http://www.arach.net.au/~savage/Misc/Images/K10D/_IGP0551.jpg
 
 K10D, DA 10-17mm Fisheye @ 10mm, 1/13 @ f4.0, ISO 1600, SR on, natural light.
 
 The cassata (non traditional, ice cream variant) was beautiful  the
 get together a lot of fun.

Fascinatingly enough, many recent images from K10D are shot at high ISO 
levels and they look just fine...

Boris

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Re: PESOs: Corrales, New Mexico, Today

2006-12-30 Thread Doug Brewer

On Dec 29, 2006, at 11:10 PM, Joseph Tainter wrote:

 Good thing the K10D is sealed. Comments welcome:

 http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc/pc/mypics/535671/display/7559971

 http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc/pc/mypics/535671/display/7559976

 http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc/pc/mypics/535671/display/7559977

 Joe

Man, Joe. What a cool place to live.

Doug Brewer
http://www.drivingtheflies.com




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Re: Will we have a Netiquette on the PDML next year?

2006-12-30 Thread Tom C
I doubt whether Peter actually believes it but I've found there's quite a 
number of people that actually do.


Comes from reading it with just one cup of coffee. :-)

Tom C.





From: ann sanfedele [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
Subject: Re: Will we have a Netiquette on the PDML next year?
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 13:24:39 -0500

Tom - I think the quip of PJ's was just a quip -
but maybe I'm wrong.  I can't imagine anyone really believing that.
and  Peter's next line indicates that he was um just kidding I think

ann


Tom C wrote:

 Apology is not a sign of weakness.  It's a sign of strength and honesty.

 Only fools think they make no mistakes. It's a wiser man that
 recognizes and admits their mistakes.

 In this case, though I thought there was nothing to apologize for,
 since he simply started a topic, but others took it where it went.

 An interesting discussion despite the abuses hurled back and forth.

 Tom C.



 From: P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Subject: Re: Will we have a Netiquette on the PDML next year?
 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 22:50:07 -0500

 Tim, Tim, Tim, never apoligize, it's a sign of weakness.  By the way, I
 don't take any of this crap particularly seriously.  I'll even buy any
 one of you guys a beer, where ever I meet you.  Providing I have any
 money at the time.  Even Jostein, who came close to calling me a Nazi.
 Hell I should have declared that thread dead and myself the winner 
based

 on the Newsgroup Nazi rule...

 Tim Øsleby wrote:
  Don't we already have a netiquette? I'm referring to Graywolf regular
  posting. I think it is consensus about that.
  This reminds me. The Doomsday thread was political. I was the one who
  started the madness. I feel a bit bad about that.
 
  My conclusion so far, is that we need to remind each other and our
 selves
  about the established traditions.
 
 
  Tim
  Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of
  Markus Maurer
  Sent: 29. desember 2006 23:31
  To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
  Subject: Will we have a Netiquette on the PDML next year?
 
  Hi Pentaxians
  what happened to this list lately?
  I notice an incredible increase in the use of strong and
 unpleasant words
  here even from some of the older members for no visible reason.
  Some of the mostly OT themes even end with personal insults.
 
  Will this change for good next year?
  Would sending you some PESO help?
 
  Markus
 
 
 
 
 


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RE: PESOs: Corrales, New Mexico, Today

2006-12-30 Thread Bob W
 We used to get one good snow (6 inches/15 cm) per winter, 
 plus several 
 smaller ones. Then over the past 15 years or so those have 
 become fewer 
 and fewer. 

incontravertible proof that global warming is happening.

 Now we have had two of them within 9 days.

incontravertible proof that global warming is not happening.

--
 Bob
 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
 Behalf Of Joseph Tainter
 Sent: 30 December 2006 18:42
 To: pdml@pdml.net
 Subject: Re: PESOs: Corrales, New Mexico, Today
 
   Are you allowed to take colour pictures of snow in New Mexico? I
   thought you were only allowed to take Ansel Adams wannabe photos
in
   New Mexico. Won't you be expelled from the Photographers Union or
   something?
 
 They make you sign a release at the border that you are not a
serious
 photographer.
 Nice shots Joe. I take it snow isn't common in that part of NM?
 
 William Robb
 
 -
 
 We used to get one good snow (6 inches/15 cm) per winter, 
 plus several 
 smaller ones. Then over the past 15 years or so those have 
 become fewer 
 and fewer. Now we have had two of them within 9 days. Albuquerque 
 airport set a record yesterday. I haven't ventured outside, 
 but my yard 
 looks like it has about 15 inches/38 cm.
 
 Thanks for the comments, everyone. I spotmetered on the 
 buildings, then 
 adjusted exposure according to the histogram--generally downward.
 
 Joe
 
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RE: PESO - Hertzlia Marina vs K10D

2006-12-30 Thread Markus Maurer
Hi Boris
I like the warm colors and the view but the photo seems just a bit too
blurred to my eyes.
A tripod or similar assistance for the camera and much more dof would
enhance this photo a lot for me.
At such places you should have found something to lean the camera on
greetings
Markus



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
Boris Liberman
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 7:32 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: PESO - Hertzlia Marina vs K10D


Hi there.

http://not.contaxg.com/document.php?id=16034

One more of K10D trial shots. I am surprised by the colors that came out
on this shot. In reality it was much more dull and gray. I did only very
minor tweaking in ACR.

Brutal and honest comments are sought after.

Boris

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Re: PESO - Hertzlia Marina vs K10D

2006-12-30 Thread Jack Davis
Gives me the feeling that all are hunkered down in their births 'til
those clouds have done their thing.
Like the mast and transom perspective.
I realize you didn't use flash, but the slightly left side lighting
made me wonder originally. Detracts from the piece of the image to
some extent.

Jack
--- Boris Liberman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi there.
 
 http://not.contaxg.com/document.php?id=16034
 
 One more of K10D trial shots. I am surprised by the colors that came
 out 
 on this shot. In reality it was much more dull and gray. I did only
 very 
 minor tweaking in ACR.
 
 Brutal and honest comments are sought after.
 
 Boris
 
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Re: Will we have a Netiquette on the PDML next year?

2006-12-30 Thread ann sanfedele
Yup - I have a feeling my responses to your previous posts didn't get to
you before you replied to mine.

(hmm what did she just say?)

ann

P. J. Alling wrote:

Too much trivia, Brittles was the John Wayne character in She wore a 
yellow ribbon.

ann sanfedele wrote:
  

Definitely a line from a John Wayne movie - hmmm
time for google

:)
a

P. J. Alling wrote:

  


Probably both, but I was quoting Capt. Nathan C. Brittles...

ann sanfedele wrote:
 


  

P. J. Alling wrote:

 
   

  


never apoligize, it's a sign of weakness.

   
 


  

thank you, John Wayne :)

But was it She Wore a Yellow Ribbon or Sands of Iwa Jima?

ann



 
   

  


 


  


  




  




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Local news!

2006-12-30 Thread Mike Hamilton
Well, I opened up the local newspaper (the Edmonton Journal) and found
two of my photos published on the front page of the City section!  I'd
been interviewed last week, and although they didn't publish much of
that, i was really happy to see my photos in print!

Here's a link: 
http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/archives/story.html?id=25b35cd2-c555-4a2b-843c-2619d94de680

The story is about local photobloggers.  The two photos are:
http://www.michaelhamilton.ca/?p=65
http://www.michaelhamilton.ca/?p=82

:)

My goal for this year is to get a show of my photos at a local cafe!
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Re: GESO: playing in the studio

2006-12-30 Thread George Sinos
We'll know the K series has arrived when we see a Magic Lantern guide
or something like it.  I was at the local bookstore yesterday and saw
one for the Sony a100 and all of the canon and nikon series.  No
pentax to be found.

See you later, gs
htpp://georgesphotos.net

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Re: PESO - Hertzlia Marina vs K10D

2006-12-30 Thread Kenneth Waller
Great light Boris.
I like the composition - the way the sterns of the boats all trail off to 
the URH.
What caught your attention with this scene?

I am surprised by the colors that came out on this shot.
Are your camera's color related settings @ default?

Kenneth Waller

- Original Message - 
From: Boris Liberman [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject: PESO - Hertzlia Marina vs K10D


 Hi there.

 http://not.contaxg.com/document.php?id=16034

 One more of K10D trial shots. I am surprised by the colors that came out
 on this shot. In reality it was much more dull and gray. I did only very
 minor tweaking in ACR.

 Brutal and honest comments are sought after.

 Boris

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GFM: The Man

2006-12-30 Thread Mark Roberts
GFM regulars will be interested to know about the status of the event's 
organizer and master of ceremonies, Don Nelson. He's been going through 
a bit of bother with lymphoma this past year and recently went through 
a long, aggressive round of chemotherapy with accompanying bone marrow 
transplants and other unpleasantness. I just got off the phone with him 
and though he's still weak - and sounds it - he says he's feeling and 
looking better all the time (What? Looking *better*? Is that 
possible?!). He says there's noticeable improvement every day and his 
doctors say all the numbers (various cell counts and other tests) are 
looking very good.

Apparently, Catherine Morton is working feverishly on preparations for 
having the online registration working on January 1. If it isn't live 
then I'll try to get an estimate of when they think it will be working 
but I don't expect much, if any, delay this year.


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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

2006-12-30 Thread William Robb

- Original Message - 
From: P. J. Alling Subject: Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?


 Apparently Ethanol works almost as well and is somewhat less toxic,
 however it's distressingly low tech.


It can have a detrimental effect on some of the metals that were in the fuel 
delivery systems of the day.

William Robb 


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Re: Question about DNG

2006-12-30 Thread Godfrey DiGiorgi
Thanks Adam, I wasn't aware of that. I haven't used the Macro on the  
K10D yet. :-)

G

On Dec 30, 2006, at 9:02 AM, Adam Maas wrote:

 Your A50 should set FL info on the K10D if you've configured SR and  
 are
 running the latest firmware (I know this was added to the K100D,
 confused me for a bit as I usually use 55mm for 50mm lenses as I  
 find it
 slightly more effective).


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SV: GESO: playing in the studio

2006-12-30 Thread Jens Bladt
Paul, the K10D looks very good in you hands - very becomming!
(I want one too).
Regards
jens

Jens Bladt
http://www.jensbladt.dk
+45 56 63 77 11
+45 23 43 85 77
Skype: jensbladt248

-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af Paul
Stenquist
Sendt: 29. december 2006 23:20
Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Emne: GESO: playing in the studio


I visited my friend Marc Williams in his studio this morning. Marc
shoots a lot of ad work as well as some very artful wedding portfolios.
His equipment ranges from film Leicas (MP3, M7) to an M8, Canon Mark II
DS and 5D, a Hassy with a digital back, and a Mamiya RZ67 with a
digital back. In other words, visiting his studio is like a trip to the
toy store. Here's the Mamiya RZ67 with the Leaf 33 megapixel digital
back. In case you're in the market for one of these, the back alone
goes for 23,000 US:
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=5386311size=lg
Here''s Marc shooting me. I shot him with the K10D and the DA 12-24 at
24mm. The stop was f5.6. The shutter was 1/6th of a second at ISO 640.
Shake reduction works:
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=5386304
And here's Marc's shot of me with the MZ67. I know it was ISO 800,
because he was testing an upgrade to the leaf back that eliminated a
problem at high ISO. The lens was wide open. I don't know what lens it
was, but I'd guess around 100mm. The camera was on a tripod, or more
accurately, an elaborate support system:
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=5386297size=lg
Lots of fun.
Paul


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Re: Bins

2006-12-30 Thread Cotty
On 30/12/06, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed:

I'm sure they're very good, but I'm not about to spend that much
money! 

There's only one way to guarantee that. *Don't* look thru the Canons!

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Re: 77 Ltd

2006-12-30 Thread Cotty
On 30/12/06, Jens Bladt, discombobulated, unleashed:

Yes, very much:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bladt/173336922/in/set-72157594176741635/

Razor sharp fully opened.

Very pleasing shot Jens. Excellent use of depth-of-field.

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Re: GESO: playing in the studio

2006-12-30 Thread Cotty
On 30/12/06, keith_w, discombobulated, unleashed:

A gel?
Is that a topical application, or a gelatin capsule, to swallow?

Gel as in gellatin - a transparent semi-liquid that you apply to skin:

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/medicines/13726.html

I have a tendon strain under the shoulder bones affecting the nerves in
my upper arms, so I'm on a regime of ice packs and gel at the moment.

Actually my back is in good shape. I went to my chiro about 5 months ago
with muscle spasms in the lumbar region. After X rays, turns out I have
one desiccated disc (q.v.) and so had intensive repair regimen and doing
nicely now. No sciatica, so caught it early enough. Backs are a problem
in my business.

-- 


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Re: Local news!

2006-12-30 Thread Cotty
On 30/12/06, Mike Hamilton, discombobulated, unleashed:

The story is about local photobloggers.  The two photos are:
http://www.michaelhamilton.ca/?p=65
http://www.michaelhamilton.ca/?p=82

Well done Mike. I like 82.

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Re: PESO - Hertzlia Marina vs K10D

2006-12-30 Thread Cotty
On 30/12/06, Boris Liberman, discombobulated, unleashed:

Hi there.

http://not.contaxg.com/document.php?id=16034

One more of K10D trial shots. I am surprised by the colors that came out 
on this shot. In reality it was much more dull and gray. I did only very 
minor tweaking in ACR.

Brutal and honest comments are sought after.

Not quite there for me Boris. I'm not keen on the empty frame at right.
I want to see more reflections, more tops of masts. You got that there
21 mil they're all on about?  ;-)

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Re: Doomsday is coming upon us?

2006-12-30 Thread Digital Image Studio
On 31/12/06, William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 It can have a detrimental effect on some of the metals that were in the fuel
 delivery systems of the day.

Mainly due to the fact that ethanol is a hydrophile I believe?

-- 
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HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
Tel +61-2-9554-4110
UTC(GMT)  +10 Hours
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998

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Re: GESO: playing in the studio

2006-12-30 Thread Cotty
On 30/12/06, Cotty, discombobulated, unleashed:

Gel as in gellatin

Okay, gelatin :-)

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RE: GESO: playing in the studio

2006-12-30 Thread Bob W
 Actually my back is in good shape. I went to my chiro about 5 
 months ago
 with muscle spasms in the lumbar region. After X rays, turns 
 out I have
 one desiccated disc (q.v.) and so had intensive repair 
 regimen and doing
 nicely now. No sciatica, so caught it early enough. Backs are 
 a problem
 in my business.
 

perhaps that explains why so many journalists are spineless!

Bob
(I don't mean it - I just oculdn't resist)


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Re: GESO: playing in the studio

2006-12-30 Thread Digital Image Studio
On 31/12/06, Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 30/12/06, Cotty, discombobulated, unleashed:

 Gel as in gellatin

 Okay, gelatin :-)

Gelatinous?

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HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
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UTC(GMT)  +10 Hours
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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new fangled stuff

2006-12-30 Thread Steven Larson

Well I went over the edge today and got a digital camera, lol
It's a little HP no brainer that came with a HP Photosmart 8050
printer for $79 (printer and camera), bought a 2 gig memory 
card, and I'm set. The camera is an HP M625 with 6MP.
 I guess I'm not a luddite anymore, lol.

Steve


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