Re: Asked to do a wedding.
And that caterer is one of your best sources of new clients, make damn sure she likes you. William Robb wrote: If you are planning on taking up weddings as a money earner, remember that you are working for the bride and groom, but you are working with the caterer and the minister. If you are lucky, you won't work for the bride and groom again. If you do things right, the minister will welcome you back into his house next time. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
On 25/1/07, graywolf, discombobulated, unleashed: That puts it in a nutshell! Thanks Tom. Coming from you that's a welcome compliment. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
From: P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2007/01/25 Thu AM 12:45:06 GMT To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Asked to do a wedding. Public schools? William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Cotty Subject: Re: Asked to do a wedding. I'd choose the bottom. What is it about Brits and bottoms? Cotty went to school in America. That explains _everything_ - Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
I was thinking more of English Public Schools. (Everyone knows if you go to American Public Schools you're fixated on Breasts). mike wilson wrote: From: P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2007/01/25 Thu AM 12:45:06 GMT To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Asked to do a wedding. Public schools? William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Cotty Subject: Re: Asked to do a wedding. I'd choose the bottom. What is it about Brits and bottoms? Cotty went to school in America. That explains _everything_ - Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information -- -- The more I know of men, the more I like my dog. -- Anne Louise Germaine de Stael -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
Damn, now my hat is too tight. I think I shall mention why I (and and I imagine some of the others) do not like doing weddings. I do not deal well with innuendos, slurs, insults, being yelled at, crying brides, angry mothers, nasty relatives, and the feeling that a riot is just about to erupt. If those kinds of things just bounce off you, you are reasonably organized, and you have basic picture making skills, there is no reason you should not do them. If I did not have those problems, and I was a bit younger, I would probably go after some of that business myself. I think if one did it right he could make and easy twenty five grand a year as a weekend warrior type of photographer. Be available on fairly short notice, like a month or two. Limit your shooting time. Give them an album of your choice of photos and a CD of the rest to do with as they please. Charge a fair (not what the market will bear price). And there is no reason you can not be busy 1/2 the weekends of the year (one ought to reserve the rest for family, friends, and one's own sanity). It is certainly the easiest field of photography to get into, I turn down two-thee wedding requests a year and have not actually sought any photography work in years. Cotty wrote: On 25/1/07, graywolf, discombobulated, unleashed: That puts it in a nutshell! Thanks Tom. Coming from you that's a welcome compliment. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
On 24/1/07, J and K Messervy, discombobulated, unleashed: I have been asked whether I'd be interested in photographing the wedding of the brother of an acquaintance. Oh crikey. Can --- worms !! Make sure you have good insurance. If it all goes wrong, blood will be spilt. Seriously - if you're going to do it, attend a wedding with express intention of watching a professional wedding photog at work. You'll learn a lot by doing that. You'll get lots of advice here I'm sure. I haven't shot stills for a wedding but I have filmed two, and won't do it again. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
If they're spending bottom dollar realise that your not a pro wedding photographer I'd suggest going for it. It may lead to a part time job that would help pay for itself, or cure you of wedding photography for life :-) I was asked by the secretary at work to photograph her wedding. She wasn't expecting much, but I still begged off, never having shot a wedding and only ever attending 1. After seeing the final results, I kicked myself for not having agreed to do it. Not that I necessarily could have done a better job (although I wouldn't have under exposed 60% of the shots), but the experience would have been worthwhile. I really depends what the bride, groom the brides mother ;-) are expecting, and if you think you can deliver. Cheers, Dave On 1/24/07, J and K Messervy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been asked whether I'd be interested in photographing the wedding of the brother of an acquaintance. snip -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
James Messervy wrote: I have been asked whether I'd be interested in photographing the wedding of the brother of an acquaintance. You must be very flattered. However, consider why you have been approached. The usual reason is that professional wedding photographers appear to be expensive, and using a friend appears cheap. Now, I'm a very keen amateur and have been really into photography for about 15 months. 15 months? The quickest way to lose a friend is to shoot their wedding when you don't have the experience for such an incredibly stressful and demanding task. A wedding can be an expensive event. The happy couple may be grateful for your help in saving them a few pennies. However, their gratitude for your shooting the event for a low price will soon be forgotten if you do not deliver the goods, and your failure will be remembered every time they refer to their wedding photos, or even worse, avoid referring to them. Just say no. Do it now. Don't even think of saying yes. Sorry to be so harsh. Colin ___ All new Yahoo! Mail The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use. - PC Magazine http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
- Original Message - From: J and K Messervy Subject: Asked to do a wedding. I have been asked whether I'd be interested in photographing the wedding of the brother of an acquaintance. Any and all tips, tricks and advice would be greatly appreciated! From an email I sent to an aquaintance who is breaking into the game.. Wedding photography is as stressful as you care to make it. I tend to make it pretty stressful myself. Some things I discovered that helped alleviate this: They have a pretty even chance of being divorced within a few years, so the photography is about as disposable as a used car. You may as well charge like a Rolls Royce, the pictures won't be around long enough to prove they are a Chevette. The brides mother is going to hate the pictures no matter what. She already hates the asshole that her daughter chose to fall in love with, and will transfer this loathing onto the pictures. Don't worry about it, it's not a battle that can be won. Don't fight it. Take the opportunity to turn daughter against mother, instead. If you have to, point out that this is the father of her grandchild. Remember what the truly important pictures are, and get them. Pictures of the bride and groom together are not necessarily the most important in the long haul. Generally, it is the family portraits. Make sure you get family portraits of just the grooms family, and just the brides family. Weddings are about families. Hedge your bets and go with blood, not law or religion. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
On 24/1/07, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed: Wedding photography is as stressful as you care to make it. I tend to make it pretty stressful myself. Some things I discovered that helped alleviate this: They have a pretty even chance of being divorced within a few years, so the photography is about as disposable as a used car. You may as well charge like a Rolls Royce, the pictures won't be around long enough to prove they are a Chevette. The brides mother is going to hate the pictures no matter what. She already hates the asshole that her daughter chose to fall in love with, and will transfer this loathing onto the pictures. Don't worry about it, it's not a battle that can be won. Don't fight it. Take the opportunity to turn daughter against mother, instead. If you have to, point out that this is the father of her grandchild. Remember what the truly important pictures are, and get them. Pictures of the bride and groom together are not necessarily the most important in the long haul. Generally, it is the family portraits. Make sure you get family portraits of just the grooms family, and just the brides family. Weddings are about families. Hedge your bets and go with blood, not law or religion. LOL I swear Bill, you have a book about photography in you. For *my* sake will you please get stuck in and write it mate! -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
If you make it VERY clear that you're no pro and that they should expect crap then you might not want to kill yourself when it's done. Make sure you KNOW what they are expecting. Try making a list of shots you know they'll want and go over that with the bride. Long-time list members may remember I was asked to shoot the First Communion at my wife's church several years ago. I used two different bodies (film) and flashes. Half the photos came out great The other half, from the other body, were under exposed. I figured out later what happened but it's too late, of course. Unlike weddings, these kids only have ONE first communion. I probably had about your level of experience back then. I felt bad but hey, they didn't pay me, right? Still, I really shouldn't have accepted the job. I still remember getting flamed on the list when I recounted the event. So, I guess I'm saying you shouldn't take the job. But if you do, tread lightly, you're on thin ice. Cory - Original Message - From: J and K Messervy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 4:20 AM Subject: Asked to do a wedding. I have been asked whether I'd be interested in photographing the wedding of the brother of an acquaintance. Now, I'm a very keen amateur and have been really into photography for about 15 months. I'm really thrilled to have been asked (the request was based on my work in my online gallery), but also more than a little hesitant to commit to doing it. The wedding isn't until October, so there's lots of time to prepare. I've never been responsible for taking photos for any important event, I just take them for myself. I know the technical side and use the K10D's various manual functions, etc and I know I'm a reasonably good photographer. I'm not sure that I'm good enough to do a wedding though, it's more than a little scary. I know there are people with pro experience on here, so I'm looking for advice, tips, etc. I reckon if I do it, I'll want another flash (360 to go with my 540), a fast normal range zoom, lots of SD cards, etc. What else should I be thinking about? I will have plenty of time to prepare and the venue is here in Canberra, so i can scout it out and try shooting my family there, etc. Should I back myself, trust my skills and jump in? It could lead to a lucrative sideline and would certainly boost my experience and confidence if successful. It would also be a real sense of accomplishment if I did a good job. What pitfalls are there? I don't even know what I should charge. I reckon I'd have to spend a bit on gear to be ready, but I can't factor that into my fee. Any and all tips, tricks and advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks James -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.8/648 - Release Date: 1/23/2007 11:04 AM -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
Along the lines of what Colin said, have you ever shot a wedding you were attending, just for fun? My husband and I do that - we bring full kits with flashes, diffusers, etc. We stay out of the way of the pros, and in return the pros are usually pretty nice to us. It is a great way to practice. We have also learned a lot by watching the pros, both good ones and bad ones. Amita On 1/24/07, Colin J [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: James Messervy wrote: I have been asked whether I'd be interested in photographing the wedding of the brother of an acquaintance. You must be very flattered. However, consider why you have been approached. The usual reason is that professional wedding photographers appear to be expensive, and using a friend appears cheap. Now, I'm a very keen amateur and have been really into photography for about 15 months. 15 months? The quickest way to lose a friend is to shoot their wedding when you don't have the experience for such an incredibly stressful and demanding task. A wedding can be an expensive event. The happy couple may be grateful for your help in saving them a few pennies. However, their gratitude for your shooting the event for a low price will soon be forgotten if you do not deliver the goods, and your failure will be remembered every time they refer to their wedding photos, or even worse, avoid referring to them. Just say no. Do it now. Don't even think of saying yes. Sorry to be so harsh. Colin ___ All new Yahoo! Mail The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use. - PC Magazine http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Asked to do a wedding.
By all means read a good book on the subject. I bought Pro Techniques of Wedding Photography on HP books ISBN 0-89586-632-3 about 10 years ago and found it enormously helpful for a whole bunch of things. I dont think you will learn as much by just watching a pro as you will by a good book written by a pro on the topic. I gave up doing weddings even though I was getting great results and refferals because its too pressure filled with only one chance to get it just right. You cant reshoot a wedding or reception if something goes wrong for any reason and I hated the pressure of that even though I didnt have any major mishaps. I made some good money but it just wasnt worth the stress of the experiences. After reading the book, I was much more relaxed about it all but I still didnt like any pressure at all, and no matter how well planned you are and how good you are, there is still always going to be some pressure in those type situations/jobs. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J and K Messervy Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 4:20 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Asked to do a wedding. I have been asked whether I'd be interested in photographing the wedding of the brother of an acquaintance. Now, I'm a very keen amateur and have been really into photography for about 15 months. I'm really thrilled to have been asked (the request was based on my work in my online gallery), but also more than a little hesitant to commit to doing it. The wedding isn't until October, so there's lots of time to prepare. I've never been responsible for taking photos for any important event, I just take them for myself. I know the technical side and use the K10D's various manual functions, etc and I know I'm a reasonably good photographer. I'm not sure that I'm good enough to do a wedding though, it's more than a little scary. I know there are people with pro experience on here, so I'm looking for advice, tips, etc. I reckon if I do it, I'll want another flash (360 to go with my 540), a fast normal range zoom, lots of SD cards, etc. What else should I be thinking about? I will have plenty of time to prepare and the venue is here in Canberra, so i can scout it out and try shooting my family there, etc. Should I back myself, trust my skills and jump in? It could lead to a lucrative sideline and would certainly boost my experience and confidence if successful. It would also be a real sense of accomplishment if I did a good job. What pitfalls are there? I don't even know what I should charge. I reckon I'd have to spend a bit on gear to be ready, but I can't factor that into my fee. Any and all tips, tricks and advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks James -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
On Jan 24, 2007, at 1:20 AM, J and K Messervy wrote: ... Any and all tips, tricks and advice would be greatly appreciated! Once upon a time in my ill-spent youth, I had an arrangement with a local wedding photographer to do BW candids at weddings where he did all the formally posed shots. My deal was an added value service ... the promise was to provide a small book of 50-100 additional BW photos, 5x7 size, taken during the service and reception, out of the way of the standard fare, and get $100 per event for my time (given that this was 1973-1974, that was a lot of money for a high school kid!). Total charge for the service was $175 on top of the arranged wedding photo contract, whatever that was. I did it for about a year, about 15 weddings. Most responses to my work were positive, occasionally I got a couple of reprint orders. Once or twice I got the the compliment that they liked my candids better than the official pro shots. It proved a very low-stress way of working weddings. Watching the pro do his schtick convinced me that I'd never want to do that work in a thousand years. i haven't even attended weddings since, except on very very rare occasion for the closest of friends, never mind photographed them. What people want today in wedding photographs I haven't the foggiest idea. My inclination when people ask if I would like to do a wedding is to flee. ;-) G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Asked to do a wedding.
I forgot to mention, the good wedding photography book I noted in the last post quoted below was written by Robert and Sheila Hurth. JCO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J. C. O'Connell Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:53 AM To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' Subject: RE: Asked to do a wedding. By all means read a good book on the subject. I bought Pro Techniques of Wedding Photography on HP books ISBN 0-89586-632-3 about 10 years ago and found it enormously helpful for a whole bunch of things. I dont think you will learn as much by just watching a pro as you will by a good book written by a pro on the topic. I gave up doing weddings even though I was getting great results and refferals because its too pressure filled with only one chance to get it just right. You cant reshoot a wedding or reception if something goes wrong for any reason and I hated the pressure of that even though I didnt have any major mishaps. I made some good money but it just wasnt worth the stress of the experiences. After reading the book, I was much more relaxed about it all but I still didnt like any pressure at all, and no matter how well planned you are and how good you are, there is still always going to be some pressure in those type situations/jobs. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J and K Messervy Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 4:20 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Asked to do a wedding. I have been asked whether I'd be interested in photographing the wedding of the brother of an acquaintance. Now, I'm a very keen amateur and have been really into photography for about 15 months. I'm really thrilled to have been asked (the request was based on my work in my online gallery), but also more than a little hesitant to commit to doing it. The wedding isn't until October, so there's lots of time to prepare. I've never been responsible for taking photos for any important event, I just take them for myself. I know the technical side and use the K10D's various manual functions, etc and I know I'm a reasonably good photographer. I'm not sure that I'm good enough to do a wedding though, it's more than a little scary. I know there are people with pro experience on here, so I'm looking for advice, tips, etc. I reckon if I do it, I'll want another flash (360 to go with my 540), a fast normal range zoom, lots of SD cards, etc. What else should I be thinking about? I will have plenty of time to prepare and the venue is here in Canberra, so i can scout it out and try shooting my family there, etc. Should I back myself, trust my skills and jump in? It could lead to a lucrative sideline and would certainly boost my experience and confidence if successful. It would also be a real sense of accomplishment if I did a good job. What pitfalls are there? I don't even know what I should charge. I reckon I'd have to spend a bit on gear to be ready, but I can't factor that into my fee. Any and all tips, tricks and advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks James -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
William Robb wrote: Wedding photography is as stressful as you care to make it. and... You may as well charge like a Rolls Royce, the pictures won't be around long enough to prove they are a Chevette. and... Remember what the truly important pictures are, and get them. and... Hedge your bets and go with blood, not law or religion. For 2007 I may have to establish a special quotations file just for Bill Robb :) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
:-)) J --- William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: J and K Messervy Subject: Asked to do a wedding. I have been asked whether I'd be interested in photographing the wedding of the brother of an acquaintance. Any and all tips, tricks and advice would be greatly appreciated! From an email I sent to an aquaintance who is breaking into the game.. Wedding photography is as stressful as you care to make it. I tend to make it pretty stressful myself. Some things I discovered that helped alleviate this: They have a pretty even chance of being divorced within a few years, so the photography is about as disposable as a used car. You may as well charge like a Rolls Royce, the pictures won't be around long enough to prove they are a Chevette. The brides mother is going to hate the pictures no matter what. She already hates the asshole that her daughter chose to fall in love with, and will transfer this loathing onto the pictures. Don't worry about it, it's not a battle that can be won. Don't fight it. Take the opportunity to turn daughter against mother, instead. If you have to, point out that this is the father of her grandchild. Remember what the truly important pictures are, and get them. Pictures of the bride and groom together are not necessarily the most important in the long haul. Generally, it is the family portraits. Make sure you get family portraits of just the grooms family, and just the brides family. Weddings are about families. Hedge your bets and go with blood, not law or religion. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Asked to do a wedding.
If somebody offered me the choice between photographing another wedding, and rolling around naked in an open plague pit whilst licking a leprous dog's bottom, I would choose the plague pit every time. -- Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J and K Messervy Sent: 24 January 2007 09:20 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Asked to do a wedding. I have been asked whether I'd be interested in photographing the wedding of the brother of an acquaintance. [...] I know there are people with pro experience on here, so I'm looking for advice, tips, etc. [...] -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
Well, of course. We all know of your penchant for dog's bottoms ... On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 07:55:41PM -, Bob W wrote: If somebody offered me the choice between photographing another wedding, and rolling around naked in an open plague pit whilst licking a leprous dog's bottom, I would choose the plague pit every time. -- Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J and K Messervy Sent: 24 January 2007 09:20 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Asked to do a wedding. I have been asked whether I'd be interested in photographing the wedding of the brother of an acquaintance. [...] I know there are people with pro experience on here, so I'm looking for advice, tips, etc. [...] -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
Having done quite a few weddings myself I know exactly what you mean Feroze Bob W wrote: If somebody offered me the choice between photographing another wedding, and rolling around naked in an open plague pit whilst licking a leprous dog's bottom, I would choose the plague pit every time. -- Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J and K Messervy Sent: 24 January 2007 09:20 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Asked to do a wedding. I have been asked whether I'd be interested in photographing the wedding of the brother of an acquaintance. [...] I know there are people with pro experience on here, so I'm looking for advice, tips, etc. [...] -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Asked to do a wedding.
Hi Amita I'm playing with the idea to ask a local wedding photographer if I could assist him to learn for the coverage of the expenses. If I knew a Photo journalist, I would ask too. That sound fair and interesting for both sides what do you think? greetings Markus -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Amita Guha Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 4:46 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Asked to do a wedding. Along the lines of what Colin said, have you ever shot a wedding you were attending, just for fun? My husband and I do that - we bring full kits with flashes, diffusers, etc. We stay out of the way of the pros, and in return the pros are usually pretty nice to us. It is a great way to practice. We have also learned a lot by watching the pros, both good ones and bad ones. Amita On 1/24/07, Colin J [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: James Messervy wrote: I have been asked whether I'd be interested in photographing the wedding of the brother of an acquaintance. You must be very flattered. However, consider why you have been approached. The usual reason is that professional wedding photographers appear to be expensive, and using a friend appears cheap. Now, I'm a very keen amateur and have been really into photography for about 15 months. 15 months? The quickest way to lose a friend is to shoot their wedding when you don't have the experience for such an incredibly stressful and demanding task. A wedding can be an expensive event. The happy couple may be grateful for your help in saving them a few pennies. However, their gratitude for your shooting the event for a low price will soon be forgotten if you do not deliver the goods, and your failure will be remembered every time they refer to their wedding photos, or even worse, avoid referring to them. Just say no. Do it now. Don't even think of saying yes. Sorry to be so harsh. Colin ___ All new Yahoo! Mail The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use. - PC Magazine http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Asked to do a wedding.
I said No when asked lately for the first time because of a recommendation of a client to photograph a wedding for good money because I feared the risk. But, with 2 (well known digital) Pentax bodies with external flash instead of my film equipment I would have done it to get some experience and a portfolio. I would have visited the church and the other locations in advance for some test shots if possible. Since you see the results with digital immediately, I would have felt capable do deliver something good. The risk of false expectations from the client side remains always however. Taking paid party photos is so much easier and I did it twice so far with good results and happy clients. But again, I should have used digital cameras to make a very small profit, it's impossible with the cost of film and the time it takes to scan everything and burn CD's . I'm in fact playing with the idea to ask a professional wedding photographer if he will engage me as an assistant for a small fee to learn and see for myself from time to time. What do you think, would that be an interesting proposal for a professional. How about PJ's, do they engage assistants? greetings Markus -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of J. C. O'Connell Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 4:53 PM To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' Subject: RE: Asked to do a wedding. By all means read a good book on the subject. I bought Pro Techniques of Wedding Photography on HP books ISBN 0-89586-632-3 about 10 years ago and found it enormously helpful for a whole bunch of things. I dont think you will learn as much by just watching a pro as you will by a good book written by a pro on the topic. I gave up doing weddings even though I was getting great results and refferals because its too pressure filled with only one chance to get it just right. You cant reshoot a wedding or reception if something goes wrong for any reason and I hated the pressure of that even though I didnt have any major mishaps. I made some good money but it just wasnt worth the stress of the experiences. After reading the book, I was much more relaxed about it all but I still didnt like any pressure at all, and no matter how well planned you are and how good you are, there is still always going to be some pressure in those type situations/jobs. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J and K Messervy Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 4:20 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Asked to do a wedding. I have been asked whether I'd be interested in photographing the wedding of the brother of an acquaintance. Now, I'm a very keen amateur and have been really into photography for about 15 months. I'm really thrilled to have been asked (the request was based on my work in my online gallery), but also more than a little hesitant to commit to doing it. The wedding isn't until October, so there's lots of time to prepare. I've never been responsible for taking photos for any important event, I just take them for myself. I know the technical side and use the K10D's various manual functions, etc and I know I'm a reasonably good photographer. I'm not sure that I'm good enough to do a wedding though, it's more than a little scary. I know there are people with pro experience on here, so I'm looking for advice, tips, etc. I reckon if I do it, I'll want another flash (360 to go with my 540), a fast normal range zoom, lots of SD cards, etc. What else should I be thinking about? I will have plenty of time to prepare and the venue is here in Canberra, so i can scout it out and try shooting my family there, etc. Should I back myself, trust my skills and jump in? It could lead to a lucrative sideline and would certainly boost my experience and confidence if successful. It would also be a real sense of accomplishment if I did a good job. What pitfalls are there? I don't even know what I should charge. I reckon I'd have to spend a bit on gear to be ready, but I can't factor that into my fee. Any and all tips, tricks and advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks James -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Asked to do a wedding.
dont forget, your memory card(s) can fail with digital even if you got some good shots. I know it's rare but its still a possibility. And the kind of things that I learned from the book have nothing to do with cameras, it has to do with the kind of shots to take and how to deal with the clients before during and after the wedding itself. If you do any weddings, get a good book on wedding photography and read it cover to cover FIRST. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Markus Maurer Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 4:00 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: RE: Asked to do a wedding. I said No when asked lately for the first time because of a recommendation of a client to photograph a wedding for good money because I feared the risk. But, with 2 (well known digital) Pentax bodies with external flash instead of my film equipment I would have done it to get some experience and a portfolio. I would have visited the church and the other locations in advance for some test shots if possible. Since you see the results with digital immediately, I would have felt capable do deliver something good. The risk of false expectations from the client side remains always however. Taking paid party photos is so much easier and I did it twice so far with good results and happy clients. But again, I should have used digital cameras to make a very small profit, it's impossible with the cost of film and the time it takes to scan everything and burn CD's . I'm in fact playing with the idea to ask a professional wedding photographer if he will engage me as an assistant for a small fee to learn and see for myself from time to time. What do you think, would that be an interesting proposal for a professional. How about PJ's, do they engage assistants? greetings Markus -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of J. C. O'Connell Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 4:53 PM To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' Subject: RE: Asked to do a wedding. By all means read a good book on the subject. I bought Pro Techniques of Wedding Photography on HP books ISBN 0-89586-632-3 about 10 years ago and found it enormously helpful for a whole bunch of things. I dont think you will learn as much by just watching a pro as you will by a good book written by a pro on the topic. I gave up doing weddings even though I was getting great results and refferals because its too pressure filled with only one chance to get it just right. You cant reshoot a wedding or reception if something goes wrong for any reason and I hated the pressure of that even though I didnt have any major mishaps. I made some good money but it just wasnt worth the stress of the experiences. After reading the book, I was much more relaxed about it all but I still didnt like any pressure at all, and no matter how well planned you are and how good you are, there is still always going to be some pressure in those type situations/jobs. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J and K Messervy Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 4:20 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Asked to do a wedding. I have been asked whether I'd be interested in photographing the wedding of the brother of an acquaintance. Now, I'm a very keen amateur and have been really into photography for about 15 months. I'm really thrilled to have been asked (the request was based on my work in my online gallery), but also more than a little hesitant to commit to doing it. The wedding isn't until October, so there's lots of time to prepare. I've never been responsible for taking photos for any important event, I just take them for myself. I know the technical side and use the K10D's various manual functions, etc and I know I'm a reasonably good photographer. I'm not sure that I'm good enough to do a wedding though, it's more than a little scary. I know there are people with pro experience on here, so I'm looking for advice, tips, etc. I reckon if I do it, I'll want another flash (360 to go with my 540), a fast normal range zoom, lots of SD cards, etc. What else should I be thinking about? I will have plenty of time to prepare and the venue is here in Canberra, so i can scout it out and try shooting my family there, etc. Should I back myself, trust my skills and jump in? It could lead to a lucrative sideline and would certainly boost my experience and confidence if successful. It would also be a real sense of accomplishment if I did a good job. What pitfalls are there? I don't even know what I should charge. I reckon I'd have to spend a bit on gear to be ready, but I can't factor that into my fee. Any and all tips, tricks and advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks James -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
I suppose I better chime in here, since I actively do weddings. First thing you need to determine is if they are really looking for a cheap pro or just someone to take some nice shots for them. If it is the latter, then their expectations should be low and you would probably be safe to move ahead with it. As for shooting as a pro, there are several general areas to cover. First is equipment. Their is no real set type of equipment that is necessary, BUT you must be very comfortable with it and not having any learning curves. Nothing new to you should be used, as you could be surprised. You should also have backup equipment in case any part of your primary equipment fails. You need at least two bodies and a similar range of lenses for each. If you are using lighting equipment you need to flashguns and duplicate cords sets for each. You should consider light modifiers (diffusers, softeners, etc) to reduce any hotspot problems. You should have a bracket for the flash if you are shooting flash. This accomplishes two things - gets rid of redeye and keeps the shadows down and away from the subjects. Second is ability to deal with adverse conditions - You will likely be faced with very poor lighting some or most of the time. Most wedding ceremonies are performed near noon, with harsh, bright lighting abundant or performed in a very dim church. If it is in a church you need to check with the Pastor to find out what kind of restrictions there are - some will not allow any flash, some will not allow you to move around much, etc. In those cases, a second or third shooter placed strategically can get some of the money shots you may not be able to do by yourself. Anyway, you need to be prepared for less than ideal conditions concerning lighting and locations. Third is the ability to deal with people. You will be faced with trying to control and pose lots of people. You need to feel comfortable directing them and gathering them up. You also should show some creativity in your groupings and poses. Even if you think you are just going to shoot things are they are, without posing, you will need to do some of this. You will also have to be very fast as the timing of things happening at the wedding are always very tight. One place they can cut back on is the photographers allotted time. I'd recommend you look at lots of wedding portfolios or complete books to get some ideas so that you will not be totally in the dark. You should also meet with the bride and groom to determine what they are really looking for and what their expectations are. Anyway, lots to think about. If you want to discuss some more, I'd be happy to. -- Bruce Wednesday, January 24, 2007, 1:20:11 AM, you wrote: JaKM I have been asked whether I'd be interested in JaKM photographing the wedding of JaKM the brother of an acquaintance. JaKM Now, I'm a very keen amateur and have been really into photography for about JaKM 15 months. I'm really thrilled to have been asked (the request was based on JaKM my work in my online gallery), but also more than a little hesitant to JaKM commit to doing it. The wedding isn't until October, so there's lots of JaKM time to prepare. JaKM I've never been responsible for taking photos for any important event, I JaKM just take them for myself. I know the technical side and use the K10D's JaKM various manual functions, etc and I know I'm a reasonably good photographer. JaKM I'm not sure that I'm good enough to do a wedding though, it's more than a JaKM little scary. JaKM I know there are people with pro experience on here, so I'm looking for JaKM advice, tips, etc. JaKM I reckon if I do it, I'll want another flash (360 to go with my 540), a fast JaKM normal range zoom, lots of SD cards, etc. What else should I be thinking JaKM about? I will have plenty of time to prepare and the venue is here in JaKM Canberra, so i can scout it out and try shooting my family there, etc. JaKM Should I back myself, trust my skills and jump in? It could lead to a JaKM lucrative sideline and would certainly boost my JaKM experience and confidence if JaKM successful. It would also be a real sense of JaKM accomplishment if I did a good JaKM job. What pitfalls are there? JaKM I don't even know what I should charge. I reckon I'd have to spend a bit on JaKM gear to be ready, but I can't factor that into my fee. JaKM Any and all tips, tricks and advice would be greatly appreciated! JaKM Thanks JaKM James -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
On 25/01/07, Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If somebody offered me the choice between photographing another wedding, and rolling around naked in an open plague pit whilst licking a leprous dog's bottom, I would choose the plague pit every time. I'm with you there, rolling about, don't necessarily fancy the naked component, though, if the alternative was shooting a wedding, I might consider. :-) -- Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
On 24/1/07, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: If somebody offered me the choice between photographing another wedding, and rolling around naked in an open plague pit whilst licking a leprous dog's bottom, I would choose the plague pit every time. I'd choose the bottom. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Asked to do a wedding.
I would learn much more by assisting a wedding pro in a real scenario but of course do also read all the photo books and Ebooks I can get my hands on. In fact I have over 100 books mostly quite old ones on photography and start to collect some of them. I have to deal with clients expectations in my job too and do not expect it to be that different with a wedding. Digital bodies would have helped me especially with flash photography in the past during events because of the immediate control. For group shots it would help a lot too. Otherwise I do like my two film bodies equipped with a 35 and a 50/90/135mm for party events. greetings Markus -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of J. C. O'Connell Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:40 PM To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' Subject: RE: Asked to do a wedding. dont forget, your memory card(s) can fail with digital even if you got some good shots. I know it's rare but its still a possibility. And the kind of things that I learned from the book have nothing to do with cameras, it has to do with the kind of shots to take and how to deal with the clients before during and after the wedding itself. If you do any weddings, get a good book on wedding photography and read it cover to cover FIRST. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Markus Maurer Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 4:00 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: RE: Asked to do a wedding. I said No when asked lately for the first time because of a recommendation of a client to photograph a wedding for good money because I feared the risk. But, with 2 (well known digital) Pentax bodies with external flash instead of my film equipment I would have done it to get some experience and a portfolio. I would have visited the church and the other locations in advance for some test shots if possible. Since you see the results with digital immediately, I would have felt capable do deliver something good. The risk of false expectations from the client side remains always however. Taking paid party photos is so much easier and I did it twice so far with good results and happy clients. But again, I should have used digital cameras to make a very small profit, it's impossible with the cost of film and the time it takes to scan everything and burn CD's . I'm in fact playing with the idea to ask a professional wedding photographer if he will engage me as an assistant for a small fee to learn and see for myself from time to time. What do you think, would that be an interesting proposal for a professional. How about PJ's, do they engage assistants? greetings Markus -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of J. C. O'Connell Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 4:53 PM To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' Subject: RE: Asked to do a wedding. By all means read a good book on the subject. I bought Pro Techniques of Wedding Photography on HP books ISBN 0-89586-632-3 about 10 years ago and found it enormously helpful for a whole bunch of things. I dont think you will learn as much by just watching a pro as you will by a good book written by a pro on the topic. I gave up doing weddings even though I was getting great results and refferals because its too pressure filled with only one chance to get it just right. You cant reshoot a wedding or reception if something goes wrong for any reason and I hated the pressure of that even though I didnt have any major mishaps. I made some good money but it just wasnt worth the stress of the experiences. After reading the book, I was much more relaxed about it all but I still didnt like any pressure at all, and no matter how well planned you are and how good you are, there is still always going to be some pressure in those type situations/jobs. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J and K Messervy Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 4:20 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Asked to do a wedding. I have been asked whether I'd be interested in photographing the wedding of the brother of an acquaintance. Now, I'm a very keen amateur and have been really into photography for about 15 months. I'm really thrilled to have been asked (the request was based on my work in my online gallery), but also more than a little hesitant to commit to doing it. The wedding isn't until October, so there's lots of time to prepare. I've never been responsible for taking photos for any important event, I just take them for myself. I know the technical side and use the K10D's various manual functions, etc and I know I'm a reasonably good photographer. I'm not sure that I'm good enough to do a wedding though, it's more than a little scary. I know there are people with pro experience on here, so I'm looking for advice, tips, etc. I reckon if I do it, I'll want another flash (360 to go with my 540
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
I didn't realize so many people here were preachers. Tom C. From: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Asked to do a wedding. Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:32:10 -0800 I suppose I better chime in here, since I actively do weddings. First thing you need to determine is if they are really looking for a cheap pro or just someone to take some nice shots for them. If it is the latter, then their expectations should be low and you would probably be safe to move ahead with it. As for shooting as a pro, there are several general areas to cover. First is equipment. Their is no real set type of equipment that is necessary, BUT you must be very comfortable with it and not having any learning curves. Nothing new to you should be used, as you could be surprised. You should also have backup equipment in case any part of your primary equipment fails. You need at least two bodies and a similar range of lenses for each. If you are using lighting equipment you need to flashguns and duplicate cords sets for each. You should consider light modifiers (diffusers, softeners, etc) to reduce any hotspot problems. You should have a bracket for the flash if you are shooting flash. This accomplishes two things - gets rid of redeye and keeps the shadows down and away from the subjects. Second is ability to deal with adverse conditions - You will likely be faced with very poor lighting some or most of the time. Most wedding ceremonies are performed near noon, with harsh, bright lighting abundant or performed in a very dim church. If it is in a church you need to check with the Pastor to find out what kind of restrictions there are - some will not allow any flash, some will not allow you to move around much, etc. In those cases, a second or third shooter placed strategically can get some of the money shots you may not be able to do by yourself. Anyway, you need to be prepared for less than ideal conditions concerning lighting and locations. Third is the ability to deal with people. You will be faced with trying to control and pose lots of people. You need to feel comfortable directing them and gathering them up. You also should show some creativity in your groupings and poses. Even if you think you are just going to shoot things are they are, without posing, you will need to do some of this. You will also have to be very fast as the timing of things happening at the wedding are always very tight. One place they can cut back on is the photographers allotted time. I'd recommend you look at lots of wedding portfolios or complete books to get some ideas so that you will not be totally in the dark. You should also meet with the bride and groom to determine what they are really looking for and what their expectations are. Anyway, lots to think about. If you want to discuss some more, I'd be happy to. -- Bruce Wednesday, January 24, 2007, 1:20:11 AM, you wrote: JaKM I have been asked whether I'd be interested in JaKM photographing the wedding of JaKM the brother of an acquaintance. JaKM Now, I'm a very keen amateur and have been really into photography for about JaKM 15 months. I'm really thrilled to have been asked (the request was based on JaKM my work in my online gallery), but also more than a little hesitant to JaKM commit to doing it. The wedding isn't until October, so there's lots of JaKM time to prepare. JaKM I've never been responsible for taking photos for any important event, I JaKM just take them for myself. I know the technical side and use the K10D's JaKM various manual functions, etc and I know I'm a reasonably good photographer. JaKM I'm not sure that I'm good enough to do a wedding though, it's more than a JaKM little scary. JaKM I know there are people with pro experience on here, so I'm looking for JaKM advice, tips, etc. JaKM I reckon if I do it, I'll want another flash (360 to go with my 540), a fast JaKM normal range zoom, lots of SD cards, etc. What else should I be thinking JaKM about? I will have plenty of time to prepare and the venue is here in JaKM Canberra, so i can scout it out and try shooting my family there, etc. JaKM Should I back myself, trust my skills and jump in? It could lead to a JaKM lucrative sideline and would certainly boost my JaKM experience and confidence if JaKM successful. It would also be a real sense of JaKM accomplishment if I did a good JaKM job. What pitfalls are there? JaKM I don't even know what I should charge. I reckon I'd have to spend a bit on JaKM gear to be ready, but I can't factor that into my fee. JaKM Any and all tips, tricks and advice would be greatly appreciated! JaKM Thanks JaKM James -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
Cotty wrote: I'd choose the bottom. Somehow this does not surprise me. -- Christian http://photography.skofteland.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
On 24/1/07, Markus Maurer, discombobulated, unleashed: How about PJ's, do they engage assistants? Certainly not paid. PJs are a lonely breed. I have, however, seen some toting the odd acolyte, so it certainly is possible to find a guru. The trouble is, those that you need to follow don't want a shadow, and those that don't mind a shadow shouldn't have one. Better to read about their experiences in books. The best PJs are basically 'people-people' - they are better with human interaction than they are technically with a camera. Oh yeah, determination that would make me and you ashamed. The best PJs ploughed a lonely path to the top of their profession - they all do it rather individually. Totally unlike the (say) fashion business where assistants do time with known photographers and end up one day having their own assistants. PJ's are a bit like bounty hunters - there's no definitive manual. They all do it their own way, but they each get the results that matter. HTH -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
On 24/1/07, Christian, discombobulated, unleashed: Cotty wrote: I'd choose the bottom. Somehow this does not surprise me. I meant if it was down to either a wedding or a bottom -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Asked to do a wedding.
What exactly are you trying to say here Tom? Markus -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tom C Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 12:01 AM To: pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Asked to do a wedding. I didn't realize so many people here were preachers. Tom C. From: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Asked to do a wedding. Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:32:10 -0800 I suppose I better chime in here, since I actively do weddings. First thing you need to determine is if they are really looking for a cheap pro or just someone to take some nice shots for them. If it is the latter, then their expectations should be low and you would probably be safe to move ahead with it. As for shooting as a pro, there are several general areas to cover. First is equipment. Their is no real set type of equipment that is necessary, BUT you must be very comfortable with it and not having any learning curves. Nothing new to you should be used, as you could be surprised. You should also have backup equipment in case any part of your primary equipment fails. You need at least two bodies and a similar range of lenses for each. If you are using lighting equipment you need to flashguns and duplicate cords sets for each. You should consider light modifiers (diffusers, softeners, etc) to reduce any hotspot problems. You should have a bracket for the flash if you are shooting flash. This accomplishes two things - gets rid of redeye and keeps the shadows down and away from the subjects. Second is ability to deal with adverse conditions - You will likely be faced with very poor lighting some or most of the time. Most wedding ceremonies are performed near noon, with harsh, bright lighting abundant or performed in a very dim church. If it is in a church you need to check with the Pastor to find out what kind of restrictions there are - some will not allow any flash, some will not allow you to move around much, etc. In those cases, a second or third shooter placed strategically can get some of the money shots you may not be able to do by yourself. Anyway, you need to be prepared for less than ideal conditions concerning lighting and locations. Third is the ability to deal with people. You will be faced with trying to control and pose lots of people. You need to feel comfortable directing them and gathering them up. You also should show some creativity in your groupings and poses. Even if you think you are just going to shoot things are they are, without posing, you will need to do some of this. You will also have to be very fast as the timing of things happening at the wedding are always very tight. One place they can cut back on is the photographers allotted time. I'd recommend you look at lots of wedding portfolios or complete books to get some ideas so that you will not be totally in the dark. You should also meet with the bride and groom to determine what they are really looking for and what their expectations are. Anyway, lots to think about. If you want to discuss some more, I'd be happy to. -- Bruce Wednesday, January 24, 2007, 1:20:11 AM, you wrote: JaKM I have been asked whether I'd be interested in JaKM photographing the wedding of JaKM the brother of an acquaintance. JaKM Now, I'm a very keen amateur and have been really into photography for about JaKM 15 months. I'm really thrilled to have been asked (the request was based on JaKM my work in my online gallery), but also more than a little hesitant to JaKM commit to doing it. The wedding isn't until October, so there's lots of JaKM time to prepare. JaKM I've never been responsible for taking photos for any important event, I JaKM just take them for myself. I know the technical side and use the K10D's JaKM various manual functions, etc and I know I'm a reasonably good photographer. JaKM I'm not sure that I'm good enough to do a wedding though, it's more than a JaKM little scary. JaKM I know there are people with pro experience on here, so I'm looking for JaKM advice, tips, etc. JaKM I reckon if I do it, I'll want another flash (360 to go with my 540), a fast JaKM normal range zoom, lots of SD cards, etc. What else should I be thinking JaKM about? I will have plenty of time to prepare and the venue is here in JaKM Canberra, so i can scout it out and try shooting my family there, etc. JaKM Should I back myself, trust my skills and jump in? It could lead to a JaKM lucrative sideline and would certainly boost my JaKM experience and confidence if JaKM successful. It would also be a real sense of JaKM accomplishment if I did a good JaKM job. What pitfalls are there? JaKM I don't even know what I should charge. I reckon I'd have to spend a bit on JaKM gear to be ready, but I can't factor that into my fee. JaKM Any and all tips, tricks and advice would be greatly appreciated! JaKM Thanks JaKM James
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
On 24/1/07, Cotty, discombobulated, unleashed: Better to read about their experiences in books. The best PJs are basically 'people-people' - they are better with human interaction than they are technically with a camera. Oh yeah, determination that would make me and you ashamed. Just re-reading that and actually I would say that PJ's are probably a breed of extremes. There are 'people-people', and yet also just the opposite. Some have the interpersonal skills of an ashtray. Common to both is the determination. I'll get it right in a minute ;-) -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
The naked part doesn't bother me. But the plague pit and the leprous dog's bottom are a bit of a turnoff. But then, when I think back to that wedding I shot last month... Paul On Jan 24, 2007, at 5:56 PM, Digital Image Studio wrote: On 25/01/07, Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If somebody offered me the choice between photographing another wedding, and rolling around naked in an open plague pit whilst licking a leprous dog's bottom, I would choose the plague pit every time. I'm with you there, rolling about, don't necessarily fancy the naked component, though, if the alternative was shooting a wedding, I might consider. :-) -- Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Asked to do a wedding.
Hi Cotty thanks for the explanation. Lately I meet a friendly Canon amateur photographer who asked if I would like to meet for some photo excursions. But I do indeed prefer taking photographs alone where I can chose locations and especially my rhythm how I like it :-) greetings Markus -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Cotty Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 12:06 AM To: pentax list Subject: Re: Asked to do a wedding. On 24/1/07, Markus Maurer, discombobulated, unleashed: How about PJ's, do they engage assistants? Certainly not paid. PJs are a lonely breed. I have, however, seen some toting the odd acolyte, so it certainly is possible to find a guru. The trouble is, those that you need to follow don't want a shadow, and those that don't mind a shadow shouldn't have one. Better to read about their experiences in books. The best PJs are basically 'people-people' - they are better with human interaction than they are technically with a camera. Oh yeah, determination that would make me and you ashamed. The best PJs ploughed a lonely path to the top of their profession - they all do it rather individually. Totally unlike the (say) fashion business where assistants do time with known photographers and end up one day having their own assistants. PJ's are a bit like bounty hunters - there's no definitive manual. They all do it their own way, but they each get the results that matter. HTH -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
- Original Message - From: Cotty Subject: Re: Asked to do a wedding. I'd choose the bottom. What is it about Brits and bottoms? William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
- Original Message - From: Cotty Subject: Re: Asked to do a wedding. Better to read about their experiences in books. The best PJs are basically 'people-people' - they are better with human interaction than they are technically with a camera. This is much the same for the wedding game as well. Cameras have gotten to the point that most of the required technical knowledge is built in. Being able to handle people is more important in weddings than being able to handle a camera. It is a stressful day for all involved, and the photographer will generally find him or herself at or near the center of it. People deal with stress in different ways, so it can be difficult to read them. Generally, the bride and her mother will have the most on their plates, and often need very careful handling. A bride who has suffered a meltdown isn't a good candidate for nice portraiture, and a bride's motherzilla can make everyone's life a misery. The guy who mentored me into the wedding game pretty much walked in and took charge of everything. He was of the opinion that since he had been to several hundred more weddings than anyone else present, he was best equipped to make sure everything ran smoothly. Consequently, he was often taking on more than a normal photographer would. However, his weddings always ran on plan and on time. One of the problem with weddings is that things take longer than time is alloted for. A bad day would start with the bride locked in the bathroom trying to fix what the hairdresser had taken too long to mess up, causing me to have too little time for prebridals before the ceremony. The ceremony would start late and take longer than it was scheduled to take, which would cut into the time allotted for location shooting, and if it was a late ceremony might even cause the light to be gone. Figure out how much time you need to do what you want to do, tell the clients you need half again more time than that to do it, and count on being given half the time you need. The people involved aren't professionals, and may well be floating through the day in a bit of a daze, so they might not be giving the photographer the cooperation he needs to do what is required. It's a fine line to walk sometimes as a photographer. You have to be aware that this is their special day and that you are just along to record events, but at the same time, you have to make sure the events happen so that you can record them. John gave some very good advice regarding reading a few books on the subject of wedding photography. I'd go a step or two further, I'd be picking up some bridal magazines as well, to make sure I was on top of current trends in weddings, and would also be looking at fashion magazines to get some ideas regarding how photos are being posed at the moment. The modern bride may be wearing her grandmother's dress, but she's not going to appreciate getting her grandmothers photographs in an album. Books give good basic knowledge, magazines give current trends to add on top of what you have learned from the books. It's also not a bad idea to hang out at the occassional outdoor wedding shoot. Where I live, studio weddings are almost a thing of the past. Everyone wants their weddings shot on location. Find out where your clients want to shoot, and go and see what others are doing at those places. The best wedding photographers are the invisible ones. If you put on a dog and pony show at the ceremony, no one will be happy with you, no matter how good the pictures are. Stay out of the way, if the church says no flash, respect that, even if others don't. If you are planning on taking up weddings as a money earner, remember that you are working for the bride and groom, but you are working with the caterer and the minister. If you are lucky, you won't work for the bride and groom again. If you do things right, the minister will welcome you back into his house next time. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
I was going to make this exact comment, but then figured someone else had already. I wasn't disappointed. Christian wrote: Cotty wrote: I'd choose the bottom. Somehow this does not surprise me. -- -- The more I know of men, the more I like my dog. -- Anne Louise Germaine de Stael -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
Public schools? William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Cotty Subject: Re: Asked to do a wedding. I'd choose the bottom. What is it about Brits and bottoms? William Robb -- -- The more I know of men, the more I like my dog. -- Anne Louise Germaine de Stael -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Asked to do a wedding.
Well explained, thanks. greetings Markus -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of William Robb Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 1:07 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Asked to do a wedding. - Original Message - From: Cotty Subject: Re: Asked to do a wedding. Better to read about their experiences in books. The best PJs are basically 'people-people' - they are better with human interaction than they are technically with a camera. This is much the same for the wedding game as well. Cameras have gotten to the point that most of the required technical knowledge is built in. Being able to handle people is more important in weddings than being able to handle a camera. It is a stressful day for all involved, and the photographer will generally find him or herself at or near the center of it. People deal with stress in different ways, so it can be difficult to read them. Generally, the bride and her mother will have the most on their plates, and often need very careful handling. A bride who has suffered a meltdown isn't a good candidate for nice portraiture, and a bride's motherzilla can make everyone's life a misery. The guy who mentored me into the wedding game pretty much walked in and took charge of everything. He was of the opinion that since he had been to several hundred more weddings than anyone else present, he was best equipped to make sure everything ran smoothly. Consequently, he was often taking on more than a normal photographer would. However, his weddings always ran on plan and on time. One of the problem with weddings is that things take longer than time is alloted for. A bad day would start with the bride locked in the bathroom trying to fix what the hairdresser had taken too long to mess up, causing me to have too little time for prebridals before the ceremony. The ceremony would start late and take longer than it was scheduled to take, which would cut into the time allotted for location shooting, and if it was a late ceremony might even cause the light to be gone. Figure out how much time you need to do what you want to do, tell the clients you need half again more time than that to do it, and count on being given half the time you need. The people involved aren't professionals, and may well be floating through the day in a bit of a daze, so they might not be giving the photographer the cooperation he needs to do what is required. It's a fine line to walk sometimes as a photographer. You have to be aware that this is their special day and that you are just along to record events, but at the same time, you have to make sure the events happen so that you can record them. John gave some very good advice regarding reading a few books on the subject of wedding photography. I'd go a step or two further, I'd be picking up some bridal magazines as well, to make sure I was on top of current trends in weddings, and would also be looking at fashion magazines to get some ideas regarding how photos are being posed at the moment. The modern bride may be wearing her grandmother's dress, but she's not going to appreciate getting her grandmothers photographs in an album. Books give good basic knowledge, magazines give current trends to add on top of what you have learned from the books. It's also not a bad idea to hang out at the occassional outdoor wedding shoot. Where I live, studio weddings are almost a thing of the past. Everyone wants their weddings shot on location. Find out where your clients want to shoot, and go and see what others are doing at those places. The best wedding photographers are the invisible ones. If you put on a dog and pony show at the ceremony, no one will be happy with you, no matter how good the pictures are. Stay out of the way, if the church says no flash, respect that, even if others don't. If you are planning on taking up weddings as a money earner, remember that you are working for the bride and groom, but you are working with the caterer and the minister. If you are lucky, you won't work for the bride and groom again. If you do things right, the minister will welcome you back into his house next time. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
On Jan 24, 2007, at 3:25 PM, William Robb wrote: I'd choose the bottom. What is it about Brits and bottoms? I could answer but I suspect it would be TMI. G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Asked to do a wedding.
Brits dont have bottoms, they have bums. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Godfrey DiGiorgi Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 8:02 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Asked to do a wedding. On Jan 24, 2007, at 3:25 PM, William Robb wrote: I'd choose the bottom. What is it about Brits and bottoms? I could answer but I suspect it would be TMI. G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
Like Amita and others, I have shot around the edges of weddings (informal shots to supplement the pro's product) but haven't taken the full load. I've had good feedback on what I've done (but what can you expect? They got more than their money's worth from me! And besides, I had the advantage of knowing which people were important and which weren't.) I don't think I would take on the official job, primarily because my flash skills are minimal. And my sense is that the lighting control is the most difficult technical aspect of the job. High contrast, huge color range (black tuxedos, white dresses...), low light conditions in the church or hall, wide angle shots of family groups (that exceed normal flash dispersion). Etc. If I were to take on such a job, I would: 1. Read some good books, like j said; 2. Go to a wedding or two and study the work of someone who, hopefully, knows what he/she is doing; 3. Look at some wedding photographers' web sites. tv, for example, does stunning work. 4. Before the wedding, go through some alternative checklists with the customer and find out for sure what their expectations are. 5. Buy or borrow backups to everything you plan to use. Practice changing batteries in the flash. Practice using all the gear. 6. Buy a big bottle of fine whiskey for after the party. stan On Jan 24, 2007, at 3:20 AM, J and K Messervy wrote: I have been asked whether I'd be interested in photographing the wedding of the brother of an acquaintance. Now, I'm a very keen amateur and have been really into photography for about 15 months. I'm really thrilled to have been asked (the request was based on my work in my online gallery), but also more than a little hesitant to commit to doing it. The wedding isn't until October, so there's lots of time to prepare. I've never been responsible for taking photos for any important event, I just take them for myself. I know the technical side and use the K10D's various manual functions, etc and I know I'm a reasonably good photographer. I'm not sure that I'm good enough to do a wedding though, it's more than a little scary. I know there are people with pro experience on here, so I'm looking for advice, tips, etc. I reckon if I do it, I'll want another flash (360 to go with my 540), a fast normal range zoom, lots of SD cards, etc. What else should I be thinking about? I will have plenty of time to prepare and the venue is here in Canberra, so i can scout it out and try shooting my family there, etc. Should I back myself, trust my skills and jump in? It could lead to a lucrative sideline and would certainly boost my experience and confidence if successful. It would also be a real sense of accomplishment if I did a good job. What pitfalls are there? I don't even know what I should charge. I reckon I'd have to spend a bit on gear to be ready, but I can't factor that into my fee. Any and all tips, tricks and advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks James -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Asked to do a wedding.
Tip #5 part B : Never drink any alcohol at all if you are the hired photographer at a wedding/reception. It's just like an auto accident, you will be blamed if anything goes wrong with the photos, even if its not your fault whatsoever if you were seen drinking any alcohol at all during the event. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stan Halpin Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:43 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Asked to do a wedding. Like Amita and others, I have shot around the edges of weddings (informal shots to supplement the pro's product) but haven't taken the full load. I've had good feedback on what I've done (but what can you expect? They got more than their money's worth from me! And besides, I had the advantage of knowing which people were important and which weren't.) I don't think I would take on the official job, primarily because my flash skills are minimal. And my sense is that the lighting control is the most difficult technical aspect of the job. High contrast, huge color range (black tuxedos, white dresses...), low light conditions in the church or hall, wide angle shots of family groups (that exceed normal flash dispersion). Etc. If I were to take on such a job, I would: 1. Read some good books, like j said; 2. Go to a wedding or two and study the work of someone who, hopefully, knows what he/she is doing; 3. Look at some wedding photographers' web sites. tv, for example, does stunning work. 4. Before the wedding, go through some alternative checklists with the customer and find out for sure what their expectations are. 5. Buy or borrow backups to everything you plan to use. Practice changing batteries in the flash. Practice using all the gear. 6. Buy a big bottle of fine whiskey for after the party. stan On Jan 24, 2007, at 3:20 AM, J and K Messervy wrote: I have been asked whether I'd be interested in photographing the wedding of the brother of an acquaintance. Now, I'm a very keen amateur and have been really into photography for about 15 months. I'm really thrilled to have been asked (the request was based on my work in my online gallery), but also more than a little hesitant to commit to doing it. The wedding isn't until October, so there's lots of time to prepare. I've never been responsible for taking photos for any important event, I just take them for myself. I know the technical side and use the K10D's various manual functions, etc and I know I'm a reasonably good photographer. I'm not sure that I'm good enough to do a wedding though, it's more than a little scary. I know there are people with pro experience on here, so I'm looking for advice, tips, etc. I reckon if I do it, I'll want another flash (360 to go with my 540), a fast normal range zoom, lots of SD cards, etc. What else should I be thinking about? I will have plenty of time to prepare and the venue is here in Canberra, so i can scout it out and try shooting my family there, etc. Should I back myself, trust my skills and jump in? It could lead to a lucrative sideline and would certainly boost my experience and confidence if successful. It would also be a real sense of accomplishment if I did a good job. What pitfalls are there? I don't even know what I should charge. I reckon I'd have to spend a bit on gear to be ready, but I can't factor that into my fee. Any and all tips, tricks and advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks James -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Asked to do a wedding.
That puts it in a nutshell! Cotty wrote: On 24/1/07, Markus Maurer, discombobulated, unleashed: How about PJ's, do they engage assistants? Certainly not paid. PJs are a lonely breed. I have, however, seen some toting the odd acolyte, so it certainly is possible to find a guru. The trouble is, those that you need to follow don't want a shadow, and those that don't mind a shadow shouldn't have one. Better to read about their experiences in books. The best PJs are basically 'people-people' - they are better with human interaction than they are technically with a camera. Oh yeah, determination that would make me and you ashamed. The best PJs ploughed a lonely path to the top of their profession - they all do it rather individually. Totally unlike the (say) fashion business where assistants do time with known photographers and end up one day having their own assistants. PJ's are a bit like bounty hunters - there's no definitive manual. They all do it their own way, but they each get the results that matter. HTH -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
