Re: K20D vs K-5 vs D800: portrait image rez [was: Something to think about.]
I have an example of how amazingly low shadow noise is on the K-5 in my review: http://enticingthelight.com/2010/12/01/review-pentax-k-5/#raw For those who don't want to click through, here is the evidence (warning, full-rez files): Image as shot: http://enticingthelight.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/IMGP2690.jpg Image recovered in ACR: http://enticingthelight.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/IMGP2690-recovered.jpg Same scene shot with proper settings: http://enticingthelight.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/IMGP2687.jpg Sony should get a Nobel prize for this sensor :-) —M. \/\/o/\/\ -- http://WorldOfMiserere.com http://EnticingTheLight.com A Quest for Photographic Enlightenment On 20 May 2012 16:23, Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: You won't notice any difference in noise between the K5 and K20D at ISO 200 in flat light. But when I have to use fill in conversion or brighten shadows with dodging, I find that those actions will generate significant noise in the K20 or K7 image but not in the K5 pic. And the few extra megapixels do appear to add some detail resolution in K5 images. I think I can see it in car pics that I shoot off tripods, but I haven't done any side by side, same day tests. I'm not into pixel peeping. But I do know I'd never go back to the K7 or K20. Paul On May 20, 2012, at 12:08 PM, Bruce Walker wrote: In the Something to think about. thread I opined that the D800E was likely to be in my upward growth path for more useable resolution in the type of studio shooting I'm doing lately. A few kind PDMLers suggested that the K-5 might give me what I'm looking for and sent me some RAW and high-rez JPEGs to compare against. Thank you very much, Paul, Larry and Boris! I pulled all these images into Lightroom, made a gallery of them and some of my best in-studio (untouched) raws, closely examined eyes and eyebrows in full-body and head and shoulder portraits, and here's what I concluded. - at ISO 80 (K-5) and 100 (K-5 K20D), the noise (or complete lack of) is indistinguishable between them. - in all cases, in full-body shots eyebrows are indistinct (read: fairly blurry smudges). No diff between K-5 and K20D. - in head shoulders portraits, eyes and brows are sharp and well-resolved and it's very hard to say which is better, but I think the K-5 may have a very slight edge over the K20D. - the lenses being used make more difference than the two bodies. (No great surprise here.) And Boris's Sigma (whatever it is) is *sweet!* - I'll get more resolution improvement by simply using a tripod or monopod to shoot with rather then upgrading to a K-5. I also grabbed a few D800 head shoulders portrait images from DPreview and compared. It's pretty clear that there's a large improvement in resolution, but it's also hard to see by how much. I'm convinced that the D800 shots were all done with a tripod, whereas all of mine and the loaners were hand-held. There is not an order of magnitude difference in resolution. There were no full-body, f8 or above, studio lighting D800 shots, so there was nothing for me to compare there. Final conclusion: for my work, K-5 isn't going to help much, if at all. Jury is still out on if D800E would really shake my world either. I need to investigate further -- probably rent one. I do have an acquaintance with one; maybe I can borrow that. The good news for me I don't feel so much disadvantaged by my 2008-vintage kit as I was beginning to. I'm still in the ballgame. :-) -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D vs K-5 vs D800: portrait image rez [was: Something to think about.]
Bipin, I don't have any exact side by side comparisons, but if you go to: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/collections/72157603434373350/ you can see pictures taken in similar situations with different cameras. In order to fully appreciate them, you'll need to use the fluidr interface for the sets so that you can see the exif data. Up until March 2010 IMGP photos were taken with the K100, after that the K-x. After I got the K-x, to all intents and purposes, I didn't take any low light photos with the K20. Up until then, I'm having a hard time finding photos I took with it clean enough to post on flickr, though there are probably a bunch on facebook, it looks like I mostly just used the K100, or my infra red camera and flash. After March 2011, I started using the K-5 pretty much for everything, except when I need a backup or a second body. K20: http://www.fluidr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157623436322776/ (ISO 3200) http://www.fluidr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157622594252958/ (ISO 3200) http://www.fluidr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157623227327493/ (ISO 800) K5: http://www.fluidr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157626253302714/ (ISO 12,800) http://www.fluidr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157629609083708/ (ISO 8,000-10,000) On May 21, 2012, at 7:17 AM, Bipin Gupta wrote: Hello Tim, can you please explain the HUGE, BIG Difference in Improved Low Light Performance you got from your K-5 vs the K20D for the same photo situation by showing us some examples in terms of ISO, f-stop, shutter speed etc or photos. It's not really fair pitting the K20 at ISO 3200 versus the K-5 at ISO 8,000 to 12,800. Not fair to the K20 that is. Regards. Bipin - from a far away enchanting land. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D vs K-5 vs D800: portrait image rez [was: Something to think about.]
A revelation, Larry! Jack - Original Message - From: Larry Colen l...@red4est.com To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Cc: Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 11:12 AM Subject: Re: K20D vs K-5 vs D800: portrait image rez [was: Something to think about.] Bipin, I don't have any exact side by side comparisons, but if you go to: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/collections/72157603434373350/ you can see pictures taken in similar situations with different cameras. In order to fully appreciate them, you'll need to use the fluidr interface for the sets so that you can see the exif data. Up until March 2010 IMGP photos were taken with the K100, after that the K-x. After I got the K-x, to all intents and purposes, I didn't take any low light photos with the K20. Up until then, I'm having a hard time finding photos I took with it clean enough to post on flickr, though there are probably a bunch on facebook, it looks like I mostly just used the K100, or my infra red camera and flash. After March 2011, I started using the K-5 pretty much for everything, except when I need a backup or a second body. K20: http://www.fluidr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157623436322776/ (ISO 3200) http://www.fluidr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157622594252958/ (ISO 3200) http://www.fluidr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157623227327493/ (ISO 800) K5: http://www.fluidr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157626253302714/ (ISO 12,800) http://www.fluidr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157629609083708/ (ISO 8,000-10,000) On May 21, 2012, at 7:17 AM, Bipin Gupta wrote: Hello Tim, can you please explain the HUGE, BIG Difference in Improved Low Light Performance you got from your K-5 vs the K20D for the same photo situation by showing us some examples in terms of ISO, f-stop, shutter speed etc or photos. It's not really fair pitting the K20 at ISO 3200 versus the K-5 at ISO 8,000 to 12,800. Not fair to the K20 that is. Regards. Bipin - from a far away enchanting land. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D vs K-5 vs D800: portrait image rez [was: Something to think about.]
My impressions with K20D and K5 are the same as Larry's. I still use both. I do not hesitate to shoot at and above ISO800 with the K5 when necesssary. (I use ISO 200 whenever I can, with either of them). With K20D I do not shoot anything critical (noise-wise). I still like them both, however ;) Bulent - http://www.flickr.com/photos/bc_the_path/ http://photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=2226822 http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/artists/bulentcelasun 2012/5/21 Jack Davis jdavi...@yahoo.com: A revelation, Larry! Jack - Original Message - From: Larry Colen l...@red4est.com To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Cc: Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 11:12 AM Subject: Re: K20D vs K-5 vs D800: portrait image rez [was: Something to think about.] Bipin, I don't have any exact side by side comparisons, but if you go to: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/collections/72157603434373350/ you can see pictures taken in similar situations with different cameras. In order to fully appreciate them, you'll need to use the fluidr interface for the sets so that you can see the exif data. Up until March 2010 IMGP photos were taken with the K100, after that the K-x. After I got the K-x, to all intents and purposes, I didn't take any low light photos with the K20. Up until then, I'm having a hard time finding photos I took with it clean enough to post on flickr, though there are probably a bunch on facebook, it looks like I mostly just used the K100, or my infra red camera and flash. After March 2011, I started using the K-5 pretty much for everything, except when I need a backup or a second body. K20: http://www.fluidr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157623436322776/ (ISO 3200) http://www.fluidr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157622594252958/ (ISO 3200) http://www.fluidr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157623227327493/ (ISO 800) K5: http://www.fluidr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157626253302714/ (ISO 12,800) http://www.fluidr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157629609083708/ (ISO 8,000-10,000) On May 21, 2012, at 7:17 AM, Bipin Gupta wrote: Hello Tim, can you please explain the HUGE, BIG Difference in Improved Low Light Performance you got from your K-5 vs the K20D for the same photo situation by showing us some examples in terms of ISO, f-stop, shutter speed etc or photos. It's not really fair pitting the K20 at ISO 3200 versus the K-5 at ISO 8,000 to 12,800. Not fair to the K20 that is. Regards. Bipin - from a far away enchanting land. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D vs K-5 vs D800: portrait image rez [was: Something to think about.]
I confess I’ve never really done A-B comparisons. But here are some pictures that couldn’t have been taken on any camera I’ve owned prior to the K-5: ISO 3200: http://goo.gl/9G9eu, http://goo.gl/7CwWU ISO 6400: http://goo.gl/9SsZQ, http://goo.gl/2wT7s, http://goo.gl/t4vlF, http://goo.gl/xQ5SK Yeah, get up to and past 3200, and there’s grain there all right. But the pictures still work just fine. -T On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 7:17 AM, Bipin Gupta bip...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Tim, can you please explain the HUGE, BIG Difference in Improved Low Light Performance you got from your K-5 vs the K20D for the same photo situation by showing us some examples in terms of ISO, f-stop, shutter speed etc or photos. Regards. Bipin - from a far away enchanting land. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D vs K-5 vs D800: portrait image rez [was: Something to think about.]
On 5/20/2012 19:08, Bruce Walker wrote: In the Something to think about. thread I opined that the D800E was likely to be in my upward growth path for more useable resolution in the type of studio shooting I'm doing lately. A few kind PDMLers suggested that the K-5 might give me what I'm looking for and sent me some RAW and high-rez JPEGs to compare against. Thank you very much, Paul, Larry and Boris! You're very welcome, sir! - the lenses being used make more difference than the two bodies. (No great surprise here.) And Boris's Sigma (whatever it is) is *sweet!* It is rather cheap USD 250 Sigma EX DG 24-60/2.8 which is by the way a full frame lens that is certainly dandier than its monetary worth. Except seemingly (I did not shoot targets to ascertain that) every so minor difference in color rendering it is probably as good as DA* 16-50/2.8 IQ-wise. And sans SDM and WR it is built just as good as DA* - very tight tolerances, etc. I also grabbed a few D800 head shoulders portrait images from DPreview and compared. It's pretty clear that there's a large improvement in resolution, but it's also hard to see by how much. I'm convinced that the D800 shots were all done with a tripod, whereas all of mine and the loaners were hand-held. There is not an order of magnitude difference in resolution. There were no full-body, f8 or above, studio lighting D800 shots, so there was nothing for me to compare there. I remember a long time ago, before digital kicked in, an article on the web that maintained that by shooting hand-held most of alleged advantages of low-sensitivity high-res film and big MTF rating lenses are negated. You appear to support the idea that this thesis is still valid. Final conclusion: for my work, K-5 isn't going to help much, if at all. Jury is still out on if D800E would really shake my world either. I need to investigate further -- probably rent one. I do have an acquaintance with one; maybe I can borrow that. I am thinking that the only true IQ advantage of K-5 above its peers (K20D or K-7) is that of sensor dynamic range (and 14-bit RAW too). It simply allows you for more flexibility when you set up your light or when you process your images afterwards. If this is of little importance to you then indeed from pure IQ point of view K-5 does not offer anything on top of, say K20D. Glad my modest offerings could be of help, Bruce. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D vs K-5 vs D800: portrait image rez [was: Something to think about.]
On May 20, 2012, at 9:56 AM, Boris Liberman wrote: I remember a long time ago, before digital kicked in, an article on the web that maintained that by shooting hand-held most of alleged advantages of low-sensitivity high-res film and big MTF rating lenses are negated. You appear to support the idea that this thesis is still valid. It would be interesting to see how much difference hand held versus tripod makes with studio flash, or with speedlight. Final conclusion: for my work, K-5 isn't going to help much, if at all. Jury is still out on if D800E would really shake my world either. I need to investigate further -- probably rent one. I do have an acquaintance with one; maybe I can borrow that. At ISO 100 I'm not sure much anything will make a bid difference. I'm sure that someone good with math could look at the MTF of different lenses, translate that into resolution at APS or 24x36 sensor sizes , and come up with a maximum effective resolution for that lens. One of the things that Kennyboy said that seemed to make sense on his site is that one of the biggest advantage of larger sensor sizes (or larger film) is that the lens doesn't have to be as sharp to have a sharper final image. He didn't mention whether it costs more for a full frame lens with 100 lines per mm resolution than it does for an aps lens with 140 lines per mm (or whatever the typical is). Note that when I'm working in the studio, the ultimate, best, resolution is not my number one goal. I'm concerned with lighting, composition, maybe depth of field as an artistic element, or to make focusing less critical, and I'm just assuming that things will be sharp enough. I didn't even check to see what lens I used for the shots you asked for. However, it's my general feeling that pretty much any lens in the f/10 to f/16 range is working in it's sweet spot, and if you are looking at just sharpness it may be tough to tell a kit lens from an FA77. I am thinking that the only true IQ advantage of K-5 above its peers (K20D or K-7) is that of sensor dynamic range (and 14-bit RAW too). It simply allows you for more flexibility when you set up your light or when you process your images afterwards. If this is of little importance to you then indeed from pure IQ point of view K-5 does not offer anything on top of, say K20D. If you are always going to use flash, and they're going to throw enough photons that you can always use base ISO, the advantages of the K-5 versus the K20 are more along the lines of focus speed, bigger viewfinder, how it fits in your hand, buffer size, ability to use Live View on the tripod for manual focusing on static images, a focus assist light and so forth. If I were an even bigger geek than I am, it would be fun to set up a test, using multiple cameras, lenses, tripods, lights and test the resolving power of different setups and see what it takes to get the ultimate sharpness in the studio. However, since I do have a life outside of photography, I just don't see myself having the time and resources to do such a test. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D vs K-5 vs D800: portrait image rez [was: Something to think about.]
I moved to a K-5 from a K20 and the big difference - for me, huge - was the improved low-light performance. For someone like me who finds not plans pictures, and who hates flashes anyhow, it really is a big deal. -T On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 9:08 AM, Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote: In the Something to think about. thread I opined that the D800E was likely to be in my upward growth path for more useable resolution in the type of studio shooting I'm doing lately. A few kind PDMLers suggested that the K-5 might give me what I'm looking for and sent me some RAW and high-rez JPEGs to compare against. Thank you very much, Paul, Larry and Boris! I pulled all these images into Lightroom, made a gallery of them and some of my best in-studio (untouched) raws, closely examined eyes and eyebrows in full-body and head and shoulder portraits, and here's what I concluded. - at ISO 80 (K-5) and 100 (K-5 K20D), the noise (or complete lack of) is indistinguishable between them. - in all cases, in full-body shots eyebrows are indistinct (read: fairly blurry smudges). No diff between K-5 and K20D. - in head shoulders portraits, eyes and brows are sharp and well-resolved and it's very hard to say which is better, but I think the K-5 may have a very slight edge over the K20D. - the lenses being used make more difference than the two bodies. (No great surprise here.) And Boris's Sigma (whatever it is) is *sweet!* - I'll get more resolution improvement by simply using a tripod or monopod to shoot with rather then upgrading to a K-5. I also grabbed a few D800 head shoulders portrait images from DPreview and compared. It's pretty clear that there's a large improvement in resolution, but it's also hard to see by how much. I'm convinced that the D800 shots were all done with a tripod, whereas all of mine and the loaners were hand-held. There is not an order of magnitude difference in resolution. There were no full-body, f8 or above, studio lighting D800 shots, so there was nothing for me to compare there. Final conclusion: for my work, K-5 isn't going to help much, if at all. Jury is still out on if D800E would really shake my world either. I need to investigate further -- probably rent one. I do have an acquaintance with one; maybe I can borrow that. The good news for me I don't feel so much disadvantaged by my 2008-vintage kit as I was beginning to. I'm still in the ballgame. :-) -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D vs K-5 vs D800: portrait image rez [was: Something to think about.]
I'm not surprised the resolution difference is minimal and all but disappears when you compare linear resolution. The place the K-5 shines is in high ISO low light shooting as far as IQ is concerned. Studio shooting with plenty of light you might as well stick with the K20D. There are only really four reasons to get a K-5. Low light High ISO shooting. Extremely quiet shutter, (supposedly quieter than the Leica M9). Smaller lighter body, (the K20D hulks over the *ist-D), better autofocus. Notice resolution doesn't figure into this. Images taken with both the K20D should be near indistinguishable at any ISO under 800. The total resolution difference is about 12% but linear resolution which is what really counts in discerning fine detail is only about a 5% difference. Since you're shooting in a studio and controlling the lighting you would expect little or no improvement. With the Nikon D800 you'll see almost a 40 percent improvement in linear resolution. Now that is significant. But it still may not be sufficient to resolve the details you wish to be able to record. On 5/20/2012 12:08 PM, Bruce Walker wrote: In the Something to think about. thread I opined that the D800E was likely to be in my upward growth path for more useable resolution in the type of studio shooting I'm doing lately. A few kind PDMLers suggested that the K-5 might give me what I'm looking for and sent me some RAW and high-rez JPEGs to compare against. Thank you very much, Paul, Larry and Boris! I pulled all these images into Lightroom, made a gallery of them and some of my best in-studio (untouched) raws, closely examined eyes and eyebrows in full-body and head and shoulder portraits, and here's what I concluded. - at ISO 80 (K-5) and 100 (K-5 K20D), the noise (or complete lack of) is indistinguishable between them. - in all cases, in full-body shots eyebrows are indistinct (read: fairly blurry smudges). No diff between K-5 and K20D. - in head shoulders portraits, eyes and brows are sharp and well-resolved and it's very hard to say which is better, but I think the K-5 may have a very slight edge over the K20D. - the lenses being used make more difference than the two bodies. (No great surprise here.) And Boris's Sigma (whatever it is) is *sweet!* - I'll get more resolution improvement by simply using a tripod or monopod to shoot with rather then upgrading to a K-5. I also grabbed a few D800 head shoulders portrait images from DPreview and compared. It's pretty clear that there's a large improvement in resolution, but it's also hard to see by how much. I'm convinced that the D800 shots were all done with a tripod, whereas all of mine and the loaners were hand-held. There is not an order of magnitude difference in resolution. There were no full-body, f8 or above, studio lighting D800 shots, so there was nothing for me to compare there. Final conclusion: for my work, K-5 isn't going to help much, if at all. Jury is still out on if D800E would really shake my world either. I need to investigate further -- probably rent one. I do have an acquaintance with one; maybe I can borrow that. The good news for me I don't feel so much disadvantaged by my 2008-vintage kit as I was beginning to. I'm still in the ballgame. :-) -- Don't lose heart! They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a lengthily search. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D vs K-5 vs D800: portrait image rez [was: Something to think about.]
Assuming perfect lenses it doesn't improve that much. I can say right now my lenses and the K20D sensor are better than my technique will show. On 5/20/2012 1:50 PM, Larry Colen wrote: On May 20, 2012, at 9:56 AM, Boris Liberman wrote: I remember a long time ago, before digital kicked in, an article on the web that maintained that by shooting hand-held most of alleged advantages of low-sensitivity high-res film and big MTF rating lenses are negated. You appear to support the idea that this thesis is still valid. It would be interesting to see how much difference hand held versus tripod makes with studio flash, or with speedlight. Final conclusion: for my work, K-5 isn't going to help much, if at all. Jury is still out on if D800E would really shake my world either. I need to investigate further -- probably rent one. I do have an acquaintance with one; maybe I can borrow that. At ISO 100 I'm not sure much anything will make a bid difference. I'm sure that someone good with math could look at the MTF of different lenses, translate that into resolution at APS or 24x36 sensor sizes , and come up with a maximum effective resolution for that lens. One of the things that Kennyboy said that seemed to make sense on his site is that one of the biggest advantage of larger sensor sizes (or larger film) is that the lens doesn't have to be as sharp to have a sharper final image. He didn't mention whether it costs more for a full frame lens with 100 lines per mm resolution than it does for an aps lens with 140 lines per mm (or whatever the typical is). Note that when I'm working in the studio, the ultimate, best, resolution is not my number one goal. I'm concerned with lighting, composition, maybe depth of field as an artistic element, or to make focusing less critical, and I'm just assuming that things will be sharp enough. I didn't even check to see what lens I used for the shots you asked for. However, it's my general feeling that pretty much any lens in the f/10 to f/16 range is working in it's sweet spot, and if you are looking at just sharpness it may be tough to tell a kit lens from an FA77. I am thinking that the only true IQ advantage of K-5 above its peers (K20D or K-7) is that of sensor dynamic range (and 14-bit RAW too). It simply allows you for more flexibility when you set up your light or when you process your images afterwards. If this is of little importance to you then indeed from pure IQ point of view K-5 does not offer anything on top of, say K20D. If you are always going to use flash, and they're going to throw enough photons that you can always use base ISO, the advantages of the K-5 versus the K20 are more along the lines of focus speed, bigger viewfinder, how it fits in your hand, buffer size, ability to use Live View on the tripod for manual focusing on static images, a focus assist light and so forth. If I were an even bigger geek than I am, it would be fun to set up a test, using multiple cameras, lenses, tripods, lights and test the resolving power of different setups and see what it takes to get the ultimate sharpness in the studio. However, since I do have a life outside of photography, I just don't see myself having the time and resources to do such a test. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- Don't lose heart! They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a lengthily search. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D vs K-5 vs D800: portrait image rez [was: Something to think about.]
You won't notice any difference in noise between the K5 and K20D at ISO 200 in flat light. But when I have to use fill in conversion or brighten shadows with dodging, I find that those actions will generate significant noise in the K20 or K7 image but not in the K5 pic. And the few extra megapixels do appear to add some detail resolution in K5 images. I think I can see it in car pics that I shoot off tripods, but I haven't done any side by side, same day tests. I'm not into pixel peeping. But I do know I'd never go back to the K7 or K20. Paul On May 20, 2012, at 12:08 PM, Bruce Walker wrote: In the Something to think about. thread I opined that the D800E was likely to be in my upward growth path for more useable resolution in the type of studio shooting I'm doing lately. A few kind PDMLers suggested that the K-5 might give me what I'm looking for and sent me some RAW and high-rez JPEGs to compare against. Thank you very much, Paul, Larry and Boris! I pulled all these images into Lightroom, made a gallery of them and some of my best in-studio (untouched) raws, closely examined eyes and eyebrows in full-body and head and shoulder portraits, and here's what I concluded. - at ISO 80 (K-5) and 100 (K-5 K20D), the noise (or complete lack of) is indistinguishable between them. - in all cases, in full-body shots eyebrows are indistinct (read: fairly blurry smudges). No diff between K-5 and K20D. - in head shoulders portraits, eyes and brows are sharp and well-resolved and it's very hard to say which is better, but I think the K-5 may have a very slight edge over the K20D. - the lenses being used make more difference than the two bodies. (No great surprise here.) And Boris's Sigma (whatever it is) is *sweet!* - I'll get more resolution improvement by simply using a tripod or monopod to shoot with rather then upgrading to a K-5. I also grabbed a few D800 head shoulders portrait images from DPreview and compared. It's pretty clear that there's a large improvement in resolution, but it's also hard to see by how much. I'm convinced that the D800 shots were all done with a tripod, whereas all of mine and the loaners were hand-held. There is not an order of magnitude difference in resolution. There were no full-body, f8 or above, studio lighting D800 shots, so there was nothing for me to compare there. Final conclusion: for my work, K-5 isn't going to help much, if at all. Jury is still out on if D800E would really shake my world either. I need to investigate further -- probably rent one. I do have an acquaintance with one; maybe I can borrow that. The good news for me I don't feel so much disadvantaged by my 2008-vintage kit as I was beginning to. I'm still in the ballgame. :-) -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D files and Lightroom (Windows)
On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 03:22:13PM +1000, Rob Studdert wrote: On 10 April 2011 13:33, John Francis jo...@panix.com wrote: I'll shoot RAW(DNG)+JPEG so that I've always got a quick JPEG image to browse, print, give away, or whatever when I don't have access to my computer. ?But when I get back home I'll still want to import everything into lightroom; I don't want to keep track of a separate set of images. This is how I work too, generally I set the in camera JPEG to 2Mpx and no software I have used has had problems with the in-camera generated JPEG files. To me it seems that somehow the files are being truncated or otherwise modified on import, I would try to check images on an alternate system straight from the card using another card reader, then at least the general source of the problem could be identified. Modified on import, or somehow being broken in-camera. I'd suspect this of being an isolated problem; if it were endemic I'd have thought that we'd have heard about it long before this. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: K20D files and Lightroom (Windows)
-Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Robert and Leigh Woerner [...] The reason I like shooting JPEGs is that I can apply settings in camera so that I can quickly email, etc. to friends who lack software that can deal with RAW files. Again, this is a real PITA. Windows Photo Viewer (which is supplied with Win7) can read DNG files and attach jpeg version to emails with one menu click. You can't use it for any editing, but for a quick email it's perfectly adequate - much more convenient than using LR. You could also see if it will read you embedded jpgs and send them. B Thanks for the replies thus far. I just edited 19 RAW images and exported them as JPEGs for posting on Facebook, emailing, etc. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D files and Lightroom (Windows)
If you are importing into LR, why bother shooting JPEG? On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 7:10 PM, Robert and Leigh Woerner woern...@bellsouth.net wrote: OK, this may have been answered before but I am asking anyway. Here is the situation: I have my K20D set to capture RAW(DNG) + JPG. I download the files from the SD card to an external hard drive. I go to Library in Lightroom, select Import. The DNG and JPG files import to Lightroom. PROBLEM: JPG files are randomly unreadable via the Library in LR. What a PITA! ATTEMPTED SOLUTION #1: Placing the DNGs and JPGs into separate folders does not work. What can I do to avert this problem (besides shooting only in RAW or only in JPEG)? Thanks, Robert -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- David Parsons Photography http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D files and Lightroom (Windows)
David Parsons wrote: If you are importing into LR, why bother shooting JPEG? Or at least why bother importing the JPEGs into Lightroom? At any rate, it sounds more like a problem with the JPEGs created by the camera than with Lightroom. -- Mark Roberts - Photography Multimedia www.robertstech.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D files and Lightroom (Windows)
On Apr 9, 2011, at 19:47, Mark Roberts wrote: David Parsons wrote: If you are importing into LR, why bother shooting JPEG? Or at least why bother importing the JPEGs into Lightroom? At any rate, it sounds more like a problem with the JPEGs created by the camera than with Lightroom. Agreed- it sounds like the problem is with the JPEGS, not LR. Try a different card? -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: K20D files and Lightroom (Windows)
I have ruled out an SD card problem. My guess is that Pentax embeds something in the JPEGs to cause this. I have also found that Photoshop Elements 9 will not open the JPEGs completely from the hard drive, something about damaged and truncated. The images are sawed off on the edges. The reason I like shooting JPEGs is that I can apply settings in camera so that I can quickly email, etc. to friends who lack software that can deal with RAW files. Again, this is a real PITA. Thanks for the replies thus far. I just edited 19 RAW images and exported them as JPEGs for posting on Facebook, emailing, etc. Robert P.S. Lusting for a DA 50-135 f2.8 and K5. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D files and Lightroom (Windows)
On Sat, Apr 09, 2011 at 08:47:49PM -0400, Mark Roberts wrote: David Parsons wrote: If you are importing into LR, why bother shooting JPEG? Or at least why bother importing the JPEGs into Lightroom? Come on, guys. It shouldn't be necessary to change how one chooses to work just to get round bugs in the software. I'll shoot RAW(DNG)+JPEG so that I've always got a quick JPEG image to browse, print, give away, or whatever when I don't have access to my computer. But when I get back home I'll still want to import everything into lightroom; I don't want to keep track of a separate set of images. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D files and Lightroom (Windows)
Preach it brother! This is exactly how I feel about the matter. Robert - Original Message From: John Francis jo...@panix.com To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Sat, April 9, 2011 11:33:08 PM Subject: Re: K20D files and Lightroom (Windows) On Sat, Apr 09, 2011 at 08:47:49PM -0400, Mark Roberts wrote: David Parsons wrote: If you are importing into LR, why bother shooting JPEG? Or at least why bother importing the JPEGs into Lightroom? Come on, guys. It shouldn't be necessary to change how one chooses to work just to get round bugs in the software. I'll shoot RAW(DNG)+JPEG so that I've always got a quick JPEG image to browse, print, give away, or whatever when I don't have access to my computer. But when I get back home I'll still want to import everything into lightroom; I don't want to keep track of a separate set of images. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D files and Lightroom (Windows)
On 2011-04-09 21:10 , Robert and Leigh Woerner wrote: I have ruled out an SD card problem. My guess is that Pentax embeds something in the JPEGs to cause this. I have also found that Photoshop Elements 9 will not open the JPEGs completely from the hard drive, something about damaged and truncated. The images are sawed off on the edges. so it's either your camera, or all K20s just as a point of reference, when i was saving DNG+JPEG on my K200d, i had no trouble with the JPEGs -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D files and Lightroom (Windows)
On Apr 9, 2011, at 22:10, Robert and Leigh Woerner wrote: I have ruled out an SD card problem. My guess is that Pentax embeds something in the JPEGs to cause this. I have also found that Photoshop Elements 9 will not open the JPEGs completely from the hard drive, something about damaged and truncated. The images are sawed off on the edges. Rule out the card, then - and look at your reader, or something with your computer. This is not normal behavior! -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D files and Lightroom (Windows)
On 10 April 2011 13:33, John Francis jo...@panix.com wrote: I'll shoot RAW(DNG)+JPEG so that I've always got a quick JPEG image to browse, print, give away, or whatever when I don't have access to my computer. But when I get back home I'll still want to import everything into lightroom; I don't want to keep track of a separate set of images. This is how I work too, generally I set the in camera JPEG to 2Mpx and no software I have used has had problems with the in-camera generated JPEG files. To me it seems that somehow the files are being truncated or otherwise modified on import, I would try to check images on an alternate system straight from the card using another card reader, then at least the general source of the problem could be identified. -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D on ebay. Sold
Well, my image count was fairly high. Close to 30,. And he bought the battery grip as well for $75, so I'm happy with that. Going to offer some 6x7 stuff today. Getting ready for K5. Paul On Aug 31, 2010, at 11:07 PM, Jack Davis wrote: Yeah, was sort of a low-ball price, Paul. Depending on image count and in-the-box accessories, you might have come close to that for a K10D. Jack --- On Tue, 8/31/10, paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: From: paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net Subject: K20D on ebay. Sold To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 5:27 PM I listed my K20D on ebay and was going to pot the link here, but I didn't have time. It sold in about two hours for $400. Perhaps I could have set the buy it now price higher, but I'm happy with that price. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=180555408859ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT#ht_500wt_1073 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D on ebay. Sold
So is the consensus that Pentax will actually start shipping the K-5 in October? I'm preparing to sell my K10D and K100D Super for similar reasons, though I'm waiting for a MILC. If Pentax don't announce one I'll get the Sammy NX10. Jeez... I'm starting to sound like those Pentax fullframers :-D If anyone is interested in the above cameras, let me know. --M. On 01/09/2010, paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: Well, my image count was fairly high. Close to 30,. And he bought the battery grip as well for $75, so I'm happy with that. Going to offer some 6x7 stuff today. Getting ready for K5. Paul On Aug 31, 2010, at 11:07 PM, Jack Davis wrote: Yeah, was sort of a low-ball price, Paul. Depending on image count and in-the-box accessories, you might have come close to that for a K10D. Jack --- On Tue, 8/31/10, paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: From: paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net Subject: K20D on ebay. Sold To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 5:27 PM I listed my K20D on ebay and was going to pot the link here, but I didn't have time. It sold in about two hours for $400. Perhaps I could have set the buy it now price higher, but I'm happy with that price. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=180555408859ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT#ht_500wt_1073 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Sent from my mobile device \/\/o/\/\ -- http://WorldOfMiserere.com http://EnticingTheLight.com A Quest for Photographic Enlightenment -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D on ebay. Sold
I sell my backup camera every time I buy a new one. I try to do it before the actual announcement, because I think the imminent availability of yet another new model drive prices down. Paul On Sep 1, 2010, at 11:52 AM, Miserere wrote: So is the consensus that Pentax will actually start shipping the K-5 in October? I'm preparing to sell my K10D and K100D Super for similar reasons, though I'm waiting for a MILC. If Pentax don't announce one I'll get the Sammy NX10. Jeez... I'm starting to sound like those Pentax fullframers :-D If anyone is interested in the above cameras, let me know. --M. On 01/09/2010, paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: Well, my image count was fairly high. Close to 30,. And he bought the battery grip as well for $75, so I'm happy with that. Going to offer some 6x7 stuff today. Getting ready for K5. Paul On Aug 31, 2010, at 11:07 PM, Jack Davis wrote: Yeah, was sort of a low-ball price, Paul. Depending on image count and in-the-box accessories, you might have come close to that for a K10D. Jack --- On Tue, 8/31/10, paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: From: paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net Subject: K20D on ebay. Sold To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 5:27 PM I listed my K20D on ebay and was going to pot the link here, but I didn't have time. It sold in about two hours for $400. Perhaps I could have set the buy it now price higher, but I'm happy with that price. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=180555408859ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT#ht_500wt_1073 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Sent from my mobile device \/\/o/\/\ -- http://WorldOfMiserere.com http://EnticingTheLight.com A Quest for Photographic Enlightenment -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
re: K20D on ebay. Sold
My K100D is out there. And some other goodies. http://shop.ebay.com/dpconsult.com/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=_trksi d=p4340 Sincerely, Collin Brendemuehl He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose -- Jim Elliott mail2web.com What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D on ebay. Sold
Yeah, was sort of a low-ball price, Paul. Depending on image count and in-the-box accessories, you might have come close to that for a K10D. Jack --- On Tue, 8/31/10, paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: From: paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net Subject: K20D on ebay. Sold To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 5:27 PM I listed my K20D on ebay and was going to pot the link here, but I didn't have time. It sold in about two hours for $400. Perhaps I could have set the buy it now price higher, but I'm happy with that price. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=180555408859ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT#ht_500wt_1073 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D
2010/6/25 drd1...@gmail.com: Yeah, but Congress would still base national policy on it. OK let's give these figures to BP then... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D
Hey, let's not spill the beans. On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 5:06 AM, eckinator eckina...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/6/25 drd1...@gmail.com: Yeah, but Congress would still base national policy on it. OK let's give these figures to BP then... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D
On Jun 24, 2010, at 6:40 PM, P N Stenquist wrote: On Jun 24, 2010, at 6:04 PM, Eric Weir wrote: There's a K20D with a DA 28-55 DA lens for sale on eBay. Is a shutter count of 26000 high? I'd say that's about normal for a K20D. Thanks to all who responded with information, statistics, and cautions about the statistics. Sincerely -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D
Let's just spread oil on troubled waters...
On 6/25/2010 8:11 AM, Steven Desjardins wrote:
Hey, let's not spill the beans.
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 5:06 AM, eckinatoreckina...@gmail.com wrote:
2010/6/25drd1...@gmail.com:
Yeah, but Congress would still base national policy on it.
OK let's give these figures to BP then...
--
{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fnil\fcharset0 Courier
New;}}
\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 I've just upgraded to Thunderbird 3.0 and the
interface subtly weird.\par
}
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Re: K20D
That's a slick idea.
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 3:06 PM, P. J. Alling
webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote:
Let's just spread oil on troubled waters...
On 6/25/2010 8:11 AM, Steven Desjardins wrote:
Hey, let's not spill the beans.
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 5:06 AM, eckinatoreckina...@gmail.com wrote:
2010/6/25drd1...@gmail.com:
Yeah, but Congress would still base national policy on it.
OK let's give these figures to BP then...
--
{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fnil\fcharset0
Courier New;}}
\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 I've just upgraded to Thunderbird 3.0 and the
interface subtly weird.\par
}
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Re: K20D
Yeah, someone had put a thinking cap on the well...
2010/6/25 Steven Desjardins drd1...@gmail.com:
That's a slick idea.
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 3:06 PM, P. J. Alling
webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote:
Let's just spread oil on troubled waters...
On 6/25/2010 8:11 AM, Steven Desjardins wrote:
Hey, let's not spill the beans.
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 5:06 AM, eckinatoreckina...@gmail.com wrote:
2010/6/25drd1...@gmail.com:
Yeah, but Congress would still base national policy on it.
OK let's give these figures to BP then...
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interface subtly weird.\par
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Re: K20D
On Jun 24, 2010, at 6:04 PM, Eric Weir wrote: There's a K20D with a DA 28-55 DA lens for sale on eBay. Is a shutter count of 26000 high? I'd say that's about normal for a K20D. That's about where mine is at. I'd be more suspicious of a camera that was barely used. I would think it should go at least fifty or sixty thousand without a related failure. Paul -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D
Official shutter life spec of the K10D was 100,000. I believe the K20D has the same shutter assembly. However, IIRC there was a thread here a few weeks ago where two people stated that their respective K20Ds started acting up around that count. Then again, the shutter life database looks pretty positive: http://www.olegkikin.com/shutterlife/pentax_k20d.htm Personally, I would look for signs of wear and abuse much more than that and perhaps not pay as much as for one with 2,600 actuations on it as seen on eBay a few weeks ago as well... Cheers Ecke 2010/6/25 Eric Weir eew...@bellsouth.net: There's a K20D with a DA 28-55 DA lens for sale on eBay. Is a shutter count of 26000 high? -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D
Here's data for the K10D http://olegkikin.com/shutterlife/pentax_k10d.htm - now all we need is a master Pentaxian to let us know if shutters are the same. Also I agree with Paul about a showcase queen; shutters need to be exercised so next to nothing may be suspicious, too. Happy shopping Ecke 2010/6/25 Eric Weir eew...@bellsouth.net: There's a K20D with a DA 28-55 DA lens for sale on eBay. Is a shutter count of 26000 high? -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D
I should add that this is a user fed database and while raw data are probably accurate, they are not necessarily a representative sample. HTH Ecke 2010/6/25 eckinator eckina...@gmail.com: Here's data for the K10D http://olegkikin.com/shutterlife/pentax_k10d.htm - now all we need is a master Pentaxian to let us know if shutters are the same. Also I agree with Paul about a showcase queen; shutters need to be exercised so next to nothing may be suspicious, too. Happy shopping Ecke 2010/6/25 Eric Weir eew...@bellsouth.net: There's a K20D with a DA 28-55 DA lens for sale on eBay. Is a shutter count of 26000 high? -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D
I'm not a statistician, but I spend lots of professional time with statistics, and there are two things to note about these data: 1. The numbers of subjects (cameras) are very small, especially for the K20D; 2. This is nothing approaching a random sample of cameras, and one can only guess what the biases are; 3. Past 49,000 clicks on the K10D, the numbers are so small that the curves are very unstable--which is to say that one failure (or survival) has a disproportionate effect. The K20D numbers are so pathetic as to be completely meaningless. In short, crap. Rick http://photo.net/photos/RickW --- On Thu, 6/24/10, eckinator eckina...@gmail.com wrote: Here's data for the K10D http://olegkikin.com/shutterlife/pentax_k10d.htm - now all we need is a master Pentaxian to let us know if shutters are the same. Also I agree with Paul about a showcase queen; shutters need to be exercised so next to nothing may be suspicious, too. Happy shopping Ecke 2010/6/25 Eric Weir eew...@bellsouth.net: There's a K20D with a DA 28-55 DA lens for sale on eBay. Is a shutter count of 26000 high? -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D
Yeah, but Congress would still base national policy on it. -Original Message- From: Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com Sender: pdml-boun...@pdml.net Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 18:47:20 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail Listpdml@pdml.net Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: K20D I'm not a statistician, but I spend lots of professional time with statistics, and there are two things to note about these data: 1. The numbers of subjects (cameras) are very small, especially for the K20D; 2. This is nothing approaching a random sample of cameras, and one can only guess what the biases are; 3. Past 49,000 clicks on the K10D, the numbers are so small that the curves are very unstable--which is to say that one failure (or survival) has a disproportionate effect. The K20D numbers are so pathetic as to be completely meaningless. In short, crap. Rick http://photo.net/photos/RickW --- On Thu, 6/24/10, eckinator eckina...@gmail.com wrote: Here's data for the K10D http://olegkikin.com/shutterlife/pentax_k10d.htm - now all we need is a master Pentaxian to let us know if shutters are the same. Also I agree with Paul about a showcase queen; shutters need to be exercised so next to nothing may be suspicious, too. Happy shopping Ecke 2010/6/25 Eric Weir eew...@bellsouth.net: There's a K20D with a DA 28-55 DA lens for sale on eBay. Is a shutter count of 26000 high? -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D
On a 100,000 actuation shutter not particularly.
On 6/24/2010 6:04 PM, Eric Weir wrote:
There's a K20D with a DA 28-55 DA lens for sale on eBay. Is a shutter count of
26000 high?
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Eric Weir
Decatur, GA USA
eew...@bellsouth.net
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{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fnil\fcharset0 Courier
New;}}
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Re: K20D tips and tricks
That's neat. Thanks for sharing.
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 11:29 PM, P. J. Alling
webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote:
I post this only because I don't remember reading this in the manual, and I
know some people didn't know that the OK button worked as a dedicated ISO
button, so this may help someone.
Want to zero exposure compensation instantly? Simple, press the
compensation [+/-] button, and while holding it in press the green button.
The compensation resets to 0.
As I said it may be in the manual but I didn't remember reading it.
Note: This may not work with all versions of the firmware, I have no way of
testing anything but the latest version I have, which is 1.04.
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{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fnil\fcharset0
Courier New;}}
\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 I've just upgraded to Thunderbird 3.0 and the
interface subtly weird.\par
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Re: K20D tips and tricks
That works on the K-x as well (just tried it), I suspect it might be
common to any of the green-button equipped models. Very nice feature.
-Adam
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 11:29 PM, P. J. Alling
webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote:
I post this only because I don't remember reading this in the manual, and I
know some people didn't know that the OK button worked as a dedicated ISO
button, so this may help someone.
Want to zero exposure compensation instantly? Simple, press the
compensation [+/-] button, and while holding it in press the green button.
The compensation resets to 0.
As I said it may be in the manual but I didn't remember reading it.
Note: This may not work with all versions of the firmware, I have no way of
testing anything but the latest version I have, which is 1.04.
--
{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fnil\fcharset0
Courier New;}}
\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 I've just upgraded to Thunderbird 3.0 and the
interface subtly weird.\par
}
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Explorations of the City Around Us.
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Re: K20D tips and tricks
Pentax undocumented features, a continuing Easter Egg hunt.
On 5/20/2010 10:22 AM, Adam Maas wrote:
That works on the K-x as well (just tried it), I suspect it might be
common to any of the green-button equipped models. Very nice feature.
-Adam
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 11:29 PM, P. J. Alling
webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote:
I post this only because I don't remember reading this in the manual, and I
know some people didn't know that the OK button worked as a dedicated ISO
button, so this may help someone.
Want to zero exposure compensation instantly? Simple, press the
compensation [+/-] button, and while holding it in press the green button.
The compensation resets to 0.
As I said it may be in the manual but I didn't remember reading it.
Note: This may not work with all versions of the firmware, I have no way of
testing anything but the latest version I have, which is 1.04.
--
{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fnil\fcharset0
Courier New;}}
\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 I've just upgraded to Thunderbird 3.0 and the
interface subtly weird.\par
}
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Re: K20D tips and tricks
Yep, as with the K-7.
At least with the K-7, Iso + green with reset ISO, EV+green will reset
exposure comp etc..
Very easy to get, logical... I love that way of using a camera.
On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 5:29 AM, P. J. Alling
webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote:
I post this only because I don't remember reading this in the manual, and I
know some people didn't know that the OK button worked as a dedicated ISO
button, so this may help someone.
Want to zero exposure compensation instantly? Simple, press the
compensation [+/-] button, and while holding it in press the green button.
The compensation resets to 0.
As I said it may be in the manual but I didn't remember reading it.
Note: This may not work with all versions of the firmware, I have no way of
testing anything but the latest version I have, which is 1.04.
--
{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fnil\fcharset0
Courier New;}}
\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 I've just upgraded to Thunderbird 3.0 and the
interface subtly weird.\par
}
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Photo: K-7, Sigma 28/1.8 macro, FA50/1.4, DA40Ltd, K30/2.8, DA16-45,
DA50-135, DA50-200, 360FGZ ...
Laptop: Macbook 13 Unibody SnowLeo/Win7
Programing: Delphi 2009
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Re: K20D tips and tricks
I tried them on my *istD and neither tip worked. Of course, however, they did work on the K 10D and the K7. Ted -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D shooting Magenta images with flash
On Mar 30, 2010, at 17:14 , paul stenquist wrote: I'm no expert on White Balance technology, but looking at Joseph McAllister's dog pictures and David Parsons reporting shifts when using flash, could it be that, when using AWB, the amount of white or very light subject matter is making the changes happen? In the three pictures of the dogs, the nearer lighter coat dog is turning more and more towards the light source, and my guess would be that this is causing the AWB algorithm to try to correct for the change: unnecessarily in this case. Couple of things: One - when I went out to shoot the day after these images, I checked the WB setting on my K-7, and I had it set on Cloudy, the norm here in the PNW. So that explains to me why the photos were so sunny. The camera was trying to compensate for the blue grey cast that wasn't there. My bad, but not likely to be the cause for the color shift in the one frame. The images I posted were uncorrected as shot. To put them into my gallery, I corrected them. http://gallery.me.com/jomac in the segment 2010.03. Two - I have had this happen in auto WB with both the K20 and the K-7 in the middle of a string of images, not just at the end of a set. And as far as the dog being the largest close to white object in the photos, I don't think the Auto (or set by menu choice) WB looks at that, or attaches very much weight to it if it does. Because it does not know what color that dog is. I think the algorithms it uses looks for color casts overall and tries to eliminate them, based on common scenes that in this case contain dirt, a little dirty concrete, grass, and dogs. On which Aperture 3.0 will do face recognition of all the regular dogs at the park as well as the people, once I identify them. Hope I don't have to spend too much time correcting Aperture's guesses! But it will save keyword and caption entries in the EXIF. It's a good thing that technology is coming to the fore, as some times on some days, I get thrown the heavy mental blocks that come with age and are so frustrating. Last night, it was the official flower of India at Tuesday Night Trivia. I could draw it. I could see it in so many designs. But the best I could do (under pressure, you understand) was Trillium. Knew it was wrong. Tri is not 5, and Penta had nothing to do with the name of the Lotus. But never did get there until the answers were revealed. In my defense, no one else in our team of 12 with ages ranging from 21 to 67 knew it or challenged my Trillium answer. No matter, our team won, as we frequently do, on the strength of our identifying pictures of singers from the past, and our in depth knowledge of the TV series Firefly (and Serenity, the movie). My $2 buy-in netted me $10 for a profit of $8, as I drank only their free coffee. Very light night, as we usually walk out $20-$30 richer per. You do understand how ADD affects one's though processes after all that, do you not? Joseph McAllister Lots of gear, not much time http://gallery.me.com/jomac http://web.me.com/jomac/show.me/Blog/Blog.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D shooting Magenta images with flash
With the K20, and since I got one recently, a K-7, a single or a series of shots within a string of shots, outdoors, same light, no flash, seconds apart in time, I'll get magenta (large White Balance shift) images. Raw, auto everything. It's a pain in the butt. I'm working on finding a cure. On Mar 29, 2010, at 06:21 , 27...@comcast.net wrote: Is it in the flesh tones, but did not happen in all the photos. I will put up a photo or two. This happened with both the Pentax AF540 and the white lightning. The 540 was a direct flash shot. White lightning was bounced into a 60 reflector with a silver face. Joe - Original Message - From: William Robb war...@gmail.com To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 12:29:40 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: K20D shooting Magenta images with flash On 3/28/2010 9:24 PM, 27...@comcast.net wrote: Has anyone had any trouble with their digital bodies images over magenta. Today I shot a large family with White lightnings and also different shots with a Pentax AF540. The camera was set on manual..Never had this happen before.. Thoughts anybody..Thanks Pictures or it isn't a problem. William Robb Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com Gaudeamus igitur, juvenes dum sumus... http://tinyurl.com/ndmfhb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D shooting Magenta images with flash
What is your light source? On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com wrote: With the K20, and since I got one recently, a K-7, a single or a series of shots within a string of shots, outdoors, same light, no flash, seconds apart in time, I'll get magenta (large White Balance shift) images. Raw, auto everything. It's a pain in the butt. I'm working on finding a cure. On Mar 29, 2010, at 06:21 , 27...@comcast.net wrote: Is it in the flesh tones, but did not happen in all the photos. I will put up a photo or two. This happened with both the Pentax AF540 and the white lightning. The 540 was a direct flash shot. White lightning was bounced into a 60 reflector with a silver face. Joe - Original Message - From: William Robb war...@gmail.com To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 12:29:40 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: K20D shooting Magenta images with flash On 3/28/2010 9:24 PM, 27...@comcast.net wrote: Has anyone had any trouble with their digital bodies images over magenta. Today I shot a large family with White lightnings and also different shots with a Pentax AF540. The camera was set on manual..Never had this happen before.. Thoughts anybody..Thanks Pictures or it isn't a problem. William Robb Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com Gaudeamus igitur, juvenes dum sumus... http://tinyurl.com/ndmfhb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: K20D shooting Magenta images with flash
I'm no expert on White Balance technology, but looking at Joseph McAllister's dog pictures and David Parsons reporting shifts when using flash, could it be that, when using AWB, the amount of white or very light subject matter is making the changes happen? In the three pictures of the dogs, the nearer lighter coat dog is turning more and more towards the light source, and my guess would be that this is causing the AWB algorithm to try to correct for the change: unnecessarily in this case. If this is indeed the reason, then it seems that not using AWB would be the solution, although I have not experienced anything like the problems reported here with my ist-D, which is on AWB pretty much all the time. John in Brisbane -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of David Parsons Sent: Wednesday, 31 March 2010 5:08 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: K20D shooting Magenta images with flash What is your light source? On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com wrote: With the K20, and since I got one recently, a K-7, a single or a series of shots within a string of shots, outdoors, same light, no flash, seconds apart in time, I'll get magenta (large White Balance shift) images. Raw, auto everything. It's a pain in the butt. I'm working on finding a cure. On Mar 29, 2010, at 06:21 , 27...@comcast.net wrote: Is it in the flesh tones, but did not happen in all the photos. I will put up a photo or two. This happened with both the Pentax AF540 and the white lightning. The 540 was a direct flash shot. White lightning was bounced into a 60 reflector with a silver face. Joe - Original Message - From: William Robb war...@gmail.com To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 12:29:40 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: K20D shooting Magenta images with flash On 3/28/2010 9:24 PM, 27...@comcast.net wrote: Has anyone had any trouble with their digital bodies images over magenta. Today I shot a large family with White lightnings and also different shots with a Pentax AF540. The camera was set on manual..Never had this happen before.. Thoughts anybody..Thanks Pictures or it isn't a problem. William Robb Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com Gaudeamus igitur, juvenes dum sumus... http://tinyurl.com/ndmfhb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D shooting Magenta images with flash
I shoot RAW almost exclusively, and I rarely consider white balance, other than to make sure there's a gray surface in frame. Using the RAW converter eyedropper to set white balance on a neutral gray object is the foolproof way to shoot digital. When I did have to shoot jpegs for a VR panorama service, I set white balance prior to each shot with a gray card. Paul On Mar 30, 2010, at 7:12 PM, John Coyle wrote: I'm no expert on White Balance technology, but looking at Joseph McAllister's dog pictures and David Parsons reporting shifts when using flash, could it be that, when using AWB, the amount of white or very light subject matter is making the changes happen? In the three pictures of the dogs, the nearer lighter coat dog is turning more and more towards the light source, and my guess would be that this is causing the AWB algorithm to try to correct for the change: unnecessarily in this case. If this is indeed the reason, then it seems that not using AWB would be the solution, although I have not experienced anything like the problems reported here with my ist-D, which is on AWB pretty much all the time. John in Brisbane -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of David Parsons Sent: Wednesday, 31 March 2010 5:08 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: K20D shooting Magenta images with flash What is your light source? On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com wrote: With the K20, and since I got one recently, a K-7, a single or a series of shots within a string of shots, outdoors, same light, no flash, seconds apart in time, I'll get magenta (large White Balance shift) images. Raw, auto everything. It's a pain in the butt. I'm working on finding a cure. On Mar 29, 2010, at 06:21 , 27...@comcast.net wrote: Is it in the flesh tones, but did not happen in all the photos. I will put up a photo or two. This happened with both the Pentax AF540 and the white lightning. The 540 was a direct flash shot. White lightning was bounced into a 60 reflector with a silver face. Joe - Original Message - From: William Robb war...@gmail.com To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 12:29:40 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: K20D shooting Magenta images with flash On 3/28/2010 9:24 PM, 27...@comcast.net wrote: Has anyone had any trouble with their digital bodies images over magenta. Today I shot a large family with White lightnings and also different shots with a Pentax AF540. The camera was set on manual..Never had this happen before.. Thoughts anybody..Thanks Pictures or it isn't a problem. William Robb Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com Gaudeamus igitur, juvenes dum sumus... http://tinyurl.com/ndmfhb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D shooting Magenta images with flash
Is it in the flesh tones, but did not happen in all the photos. I will put up a photo or two. This happened with both the Pentax AF540 and the white lightning. The 540 was a direct flash shot. White lightning was bounced into a 60 reflector with a silver face. Joe - Original Message - From: William Robb war...@gmail.com To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 12:29:40 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: K20D shooting Magenta images with flash On 3/28/2010 9:24 PM, 27...@comcast.net wrote: Has anyone had any trouble with their digital bodies images over magenta. Today I shot a large family with White lightnings and also different shots with a Pentax AF540. The camera was set on manual..Never had this happen before.. Thoughts anybody..Thanks Pictures or it isn't a problem. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D shooting Magenta images with flash
With the K20, and since I got one recently, a K-7, a single or a series of shots within a string of shots, outdoors, same light, no flash, seconds apart in time, I'll get magenta (large White Balance shift) images. Raw, auto everything. It's a pain in the butt. I'm working on finding a cure. On Mar 29, 2010, at 06:21 , 27...@comcast.net wrote: Is it in the flesh tones, but did not happen in all the photos. I will put up a photo or two. This happened with both the Pentax AF540 and the white lightning. The 540 was a direct flash shot. White lightning was bounced into a 60 reflector with a silver face. Joe - Original Message - From: William Robb war...@gmail.com To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 12:29:40 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: K20D shooting Magenta images with flash On 3/28/2010 9:24 PM, 27...@comcast.net wrote: Has anyone had any trouble with their digital bodies images over magenta. Today I shot a large family with White lightnings and also different shots with a Pentax AF540. The camera was set on manual..Never had this happen before.. Thoughts anybody..Thanks Pictures or it isn't a problem. William Robb Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com Gaudeamus igitur, juvenes dum sumus... http://tinyurl.com/ndmfhb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D shooting Magenta images with flash
On 3/28/2010 9:24 PM, 27...@comcast.net wrote:
Has anyone had any trouble with their digital bodies images over magenta. Today
I shot a large family with White lightnings and also different shots with a
Pentax AF540. The camera was set on manual..Never had this happen before..
Thoughts anybody..Thanks
Magenta edge bloom, where very bright values abut very dark values, or a
general color cast?
--
{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fnil\fcharset0 Courier
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Re: K20D shooting Magenta images with flash
Can you put some examples online for us to look at? Where you bouncing the flashes? Where you using any modifiers on the flashes? What was you WB set to? On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 10:24 PM, 27...@comcast.net wrote: Has anyone had any trouble with their digital bodies images over magenta. Today I shot a large family with White lightnings and also different shots with a Pentax AF540. The camera was set on manual..Never had this happen before.. Thoughts anybody..Thanks -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D shooting Magenta images with flash
Flesh tones went magenta...
- Original Message -
From: P. J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:34:00 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: K20D shooting Magenta images with flash
On 3/28/2010 9:24 PM, 27...@comcast.net wrote:
Has anyone had any trouble with their digital bodies images over magenta.
Today I shot a large family with White lightnings and also different shots
with a Pentax AF540. The camera was set on manual..Never had this happen
before..
Thoughts anybody..Thanks
Magenta edge bloom, where very bright values abut very dark values, or a
general color cast?
--
{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fnil\fcharset0 Courier
New;}}
\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 I've just upgraded to Thunderbird 3.0 and the
interface subtly weird.\par
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Re: K20D shooting Magenta images with flash
Oversensitivity to UV in the Leica M8 was said to be the cause of
magenta casts in blacks with that camera, I've never heard of it
happening to flesh tones. Are you sure it's not an overall cast? I've
used the K20 with AF280T's and haven't seen anything like that, but a
mixed lighting environment might cause almost anything, I suppose.
On 3/28/2010 9:46 PM, 27...@comcast.net wrote:
Flesh tones went magenta...
- Original Message -
From: P. J. Allingwebstertwenty...@gmail.com
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail Listpdml@pdml.net
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:34:00 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: K20D shooting Magenta images with flash
On 3/28/2010 9:24 PM, 27...@comcast.net wrote:
Has anyone had any trouble with their digital bodies images over magenta. Today
I shot a large family with White lightnings and also different shots with a
Pentax AF540. The camera was set on manual..Never had this happen before..
Thoughts anybody..Thanks
Magenta edge bloom, where very bright values abut very dark values, or a
general color cast?
--
{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fnil\fcharset0 Courier
New;}}
\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 I've just upgraded to Thunderbird 3.0 and the
interface subtly weird.\par
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Re: K20D shooting Magenta images with flash
On 3/28/2010 9:24 PM, 27...@comcast.net wrote: Has anyone had any trouble with their digital bodies images over magenta. Today I shot a large family with White lightnings and also different shots with a Pentax AF540. The camera was set on manual..Never had this happen before.. Thoughts anybody..Thanks Pictures or it isn't a problem. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D date issue
On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Brendan MacRae brendanmacrae1...@yahoo.com wrote: The date on my K20D is off by a couple of months. I wish the date on my organs would go back a few months;-) Dave Looking back in my photo EXIF, photos taken in December show Oct 09 dates. I reset the date and time this morning. The shutter count seems intact. Has anyone else encountered this problem. Causes? Thanks. -Brendan -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Documenting Life in Rural Ontario. www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ York Region, Ontario, Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D date issue
Kenneth Waller http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: David J Brooks pentko...@gmail.com Subject: Re: K20D date issue On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Brendan MacRae brendanmacrae1...@yahoo.com wrote: The date on my K20D is off by a couple of months. I wish the date on my organs would go back a few months;-) Just months ? Dave Looking back in my photo EXIF, photos taken in December show Oct 09 dates. I reset the date and time this morning. The shutter count seems intact. Has anyone else encountered this problem. Causes? Thanks. -Brendan -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D date issue
Having seen tons of Valentine's day ads recently, while looking at the message subject, - I was trying to guess: K20 date issue... Is he trying to get a date with a K20D or wants to take one with him on a date... :-) Igor Fri Feb 12 13:30:58 CST 2010 Brendan MacRae wrote: The date on my K20D is off by a couple of months. Looking back in my photo EXIF, photos taken in December show Oct 09 dates. I reset the date and time this morning. The shutter count seems intact. Has anyone else encountered this problem. Causes? Thanks. -Brendan -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D date issue
Igor, I love my camera gear, but I don't love my camera gear. I'll leave that for Nikon and Canon shooters. ;-) -Brendan - Original Message From: Igor Roshchin s...@komkon.org To: PDML@pdml.net Sent: Fri, February 12, 2010 11:35:45 AM Subject: Re: K20D date issue Having seen tons of Valentine's day ads recently, while looking at the message subject, - I was trying to guess: K20 date issue... Is he trying to get a date with a K20D or wants to take one with him on a date... :-) Igor Fri Feb 12 13:30:58 CST 2010 Brendan MacRae wrote: The date on my K20D is off by a couple of months. Looking back in my photo EXIF, photos taken in December show Oct 09 dates. I reset the date and time this morning. The shutter count seems intact. Has anyone else encountered this problem. Causes? Thanks. -Brendan -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List ymailto=mailto:PDML@pdml.net; href=mailto:PDML@pdml.net;PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D date issue
Only with the *ist-D, when it got cold enough the batteries power would
go low and the camera would get wonky. It would randomly change the
settings, Time/Date Capture type etc. Never effected the shutter count.
On 2/12/2010 2:30 PM, Brendan MacRae wrote:
The date on my K20D is off by a couple of months. Looking back in my photo
EXIF, photos taken in December show Oct 09 dates. I reset the date and time
this morning. The shutter count seems intact.
Has anyone else encountered this problem. Causes?
Thanks.
-Brendan
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Re: K20D date issue
Cold, huh? Fascinating . . .the last time I used it was out in the snow.
- Original Message
From: P. J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
Sent: Fri, February 12, 2010 2:23:19 PM
Subject: Re: K20D date issue
Only with the *ist-D, when it got cold enough the batteries power would
go
low and the camera would get wonky. It would randomly change the
settings, Time/Date Capture type etc. Never effected the shutter
count.
On 2/12/2010 2:30 PM, Brendan MacRae wrote:
The date on my
K20D is off by a couple of months. Looking back in my photo EXIF, photos
taken
in December show Oct 09 dates. I reset the date and time this morning. The
shutter count seems intact.
Has anyone else encountered this
problem. Causes?
Thanks.
-Brendan
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Re: K20D date issue
On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:30 PM, Brendan MacRae wrote: The date on my K20D is off by a couple of months. I frequently find that I have the same problem. But my camera is fine. stan -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D repair
My K20 (as well as DA16~45) they recently repaired seem fine, also. I reset the image file number which was almost 10,000 when returned. Well above what it was when sent. I reset the number and in case you care and need the route for doing so, I'll be glad to provide it. Think I remember.. Jack --- On Tue, 2/2/10, Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote: From: Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com Subject: K20D repair To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 8:49 PM Just got my K20D back from C.R.I.S. today. Fast service. They received the camera on the 14th. I never was advised by them of their receipt and initiated the contact authorized the repair 19th, it was in repair on the 20th shipped on the 26th. Camera seems to be fine but I've lost the image file numbers - it was reset to 009 and all my custom settings. BTW the cause of the 'hot pixel' was a defective ccd image sensor, which they returned to me - surprised at the weight of the assembly, probably the heaviest single item in the camera. Kenneth Waller http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D repair
My K20 (as well as DA16~45) they recently repaired seem fine, also. I reset the image file number which was almost 10,000 when returned. Well above what it was when sent. Jack -- Interesting. When I sent K20D # 2, DA* 16-50 # 1, and DA* 50-135 # 2 to be calibrated to each other, the camera came back with about 7,000 images on the counter. It had about 1500 when I sent it in. Joe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D repair
It depends on what has to be done. If it's just an adjustment then the
counter is not likely to be set backwards and can only increment. If
it's something major then the counter will be set to whatever the last
file on what ever card is used to test the camera is. If it happens to
be low...
On 2/3/2010 12:55 PM, Joseph Tainter wrote:
My K20 (as well as DA16~45) they recently repaired seem fine, also.
I reset the image file number which was almost 10,000 when returned.
Well above what it was when sent.
Jack
--
Interesting. When I sent K20D # 2, DA* 16-50 # 1, and DA* 50-135 # 2
to be calibrated to each other, the camera came back with about 7,000
images on the counter. It had about 1500 when I sent it in.
Joe
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Re: K20D repair
When I discussed this issue with the CRIS Production Mgr, he explained that the counter must assimilate the image count on the community memory card they used in the repair of cameras. As you probably know, I rather raggedly posted the method of changing the file count earlier today in response to such a question by Ken Waller.(?) Jack --- On Wed, 2/3/10, Joseph Tainter jtain...@mindspring.com wrote: From: Joseph Tainter jtain...@mindspring.com Subject: Re: K20D repair To: pdml@pdml.net Date: Wednesday, February 3, 2010, 9:55 AM My K20 (as well as DA16~45) they recently repaired seem fine, also. I reset the image file number which was almost 10,000 when returned. Well above what it was when sent. Jack -- Interesting. When I sent K20D # 2, DA* 16-50 # 1, and DA* 50-135 # 2 to be calibrated to each other, the camera came back with about 7,000 images on the counter. It had about 1500 when I sent it in. Joe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D - Hot pixel ?
On Jan 20, 2010, at 23:18, Ken Waller wrote: 27...@comcast .net, They got it last Wednesday, the 13th, I waited a few days for them to review, I called them yesterday, the 20th. They had already estimated a repair were waiting for my ok, although they never contacted me - it took my call to get the info. They estimated a 4 to 6 week wait to repair, although they said it would probably be sooner. Mine was not a warranty claim. Usually (well, the one time I had a maybe it's warranty work, maybe not), they send the repair estimate (which you need to approve before they start work) through the mail. You may have just called them before their mail to you had arrived. -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D - Hot pixel ?
Ken, How long did it take to get an answer from Pentax about your K20D ? Just
like to know how long before I would get an answer on my K7 if I send it in..
But mine should still be under warranty.. Thanks Joe
- Original Message -
From: Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 5:01:22 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Fw: K20D - Hot pixel ?
Just got word from Pentax repair, that my K20D needs a new CCD image sensor.
( : - {
Cost to repair $402.
If it was a little more I'd probably be buying a K-7.
Kenneth Waller
http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f
- Original Message -
From: Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: K20D - Hot pixel ?
Resent with URL to image defect http://tinyurl.com/5wxjf
Kenneth Waller
http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f
- Original Message -
From: Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com
Subject: K20D - Hot pixel ?
After approx 3850 images, my K20D started producing a defect in the
images, not related to SD card or battery charge. It occurs at all ISO's,
all lenses, shutter speeds apertures. Interestingly it is not apparent
in live view.
I've run the pixel mapping routine several time with no affect on this
spot.
It evidences itself as a noticeable bright spot near the RH edge of the
image (in landscape orientation), with a vertical black line from top to
bottom running thru the spot.
Its close enough to the RH edge that it can be cropped out with only a
small loss of image size, but I don't want to have to crop every image.
The body will probably find its way to Pentax Repair, but I thought I'd
get some input from the collective minds on the list. Depending on the
cost to repair, this may push me into getting a K7.
Your thoughts are welcomed
Kenneth Waller
http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f
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Re: K20D - Hot pixel ?
27...@comcast .net,
They got it last Wednesday, the 13th, I waited a few days for them to
review, I called them yesterday, the 20th. They had already estimated a
repair were waiting for my ok, although they never contacted me - it took
my call to get the info. They estimated a 4 to 6 week wait to repair,
although they said it would probably be sooner. Mine was not a warranty
claim.
HTH
Kenneth Waller
http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f
- Original Message -
From: 27...@comcast.net
Subject: Re: K20D - Hot pixel ?
Ken, How long did it take to get an answer from Pentax about your K20D ?
Just like to know how long before I would get an answer on my K7 if I send
it in.. But mine should still be under warranty.. Thanks Joe
- Original Message -
From: Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 5:01:22 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Fw: K20D - Hot pixel ?
Just got word from Pentax repair, that my K20D needs a new CCD image
sensor.
( : - {
Cost to repair $402.
If it was a little more I'd probably be buying a K-7.
Kenneth Waller
http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f
- Original Message -
From: Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: K20D - Hot pixel ?
Resent with URL to image defect http://tinyurl.com/5wxjf
Kenneth Waller
http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f
- Original Message -
From: Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com
Subject: K20D - Hot pixel ?
After approx 3850 images, my K20D started producing a defect in the
images, not related to SD card or battery charge. It occurs at all
ISO's,
all lenses, shutter speeds apertures. Interestingly it is not apparent
in live view.
I've run the pixel mapping routine several time with no affect on this
spot.
It evidences itself as a noticeable bright spot near the RH edge of the
image (in landscape orientation), with a vertical black line from top to
bottom running thru the spot.
Its close enough to the RH edge that it can be cropped out with only a
small loss of image size, but I don't want to have to crop every image.
The body will probably find its way to Pentax Repair, but I thought I'd
get some input from the collective minds on the list. Depending on the
cost to repair, this may push me into getting a K7.
Your thoughts are welcomed
Kenneth Waller
http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f
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Re: K20D - Hot pixel ?
That looks like the most bizarre sensor defect imaginable.
On 1/6/2010 4:03 PM, Ken Waller wrote:
Resent with URL to image defect http://tinyurl.com/5wxjf
Kenneth Waller
http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f
- Original Message - From: Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com
Subject: K20D - Hot pixel ?
After approx 3850 images, my K20D started producing a defect in the
images, not related to SD card or battery charge. It occurs at all
ISO's, all lenses, shutter speeds apertures. Interestingly it is
not apparent in live view.
I've run the pixel mapping routine several time with no affect on
this spot.
It evidences itself as a noticeable bright spot near the RH edge of
the image (in landscape orientation), with a vertical black line from
top to bottom running thru the spot.
Its close enough to the RH edge that it can be cropped out with only
a small loss of image size, but I don't want to have to crop every
image.
The body will probably find its way to Pentax Repair, but I thought
I'd get some input from the collective minds on the list. Depending
on the cost to repair, this may push me into getting a K7.
Your thoughts are welcomed
Kenneth Waller
http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f
--
{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fnil\fcharset0 Courier
New;}}
\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 I've just upgraded to Thunderbird 3.0 and the
interface subtly weird.\par
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Re: K20D - Hot pixel ?
I hypothesize that we are seeing the first visible evidence of a
miniature black hole. The Large Hadron Collider started operating some
bit over a year ago and experienced operating anomalies.
An excerpt from a science website reads:
That is not to say that the new collider might not actually create
mini-black holes, as no one knows for sure what will emerge from the
debris of the LHC collisions. Black holes are thought to represent the
ultimate state of compressed matter, with gravity so powerful that any
bit of matter, and even light, would be sucked inexorably inwards with
no chance for escape if it gets too close to the black hole's
boundary.
In their study of the matter, Steve Giddings of the University of
California at Santa Barbara and Michelangelo Mangano of the European
Organization for Nuclear Research (the parent laboratory where LHC
operates) look at what happens if there existed a type of black hole,
one we'd be concerned about, that could not only survive but would
continue to grow to a macroscopic size in a time shorter than billions
of years
Ken, I recall you recently stating that as time passes it has become
more tiring to lug your photo gear into the field. Considering the
super-massive properties of even miniature black holes, there could be
a correlation.
The white ring of light around the black center could be evidence of
super-heated photons being compressed as they approach the event
horizon. And the 2-dimensional vertical black line indicates the force
lines that have trapped and locked the black hole in the sensor
matrix.
Black holes are perhaps the most profound and mysterious objects
we've imagined. Being able to create and study them should teach us a
lot. In particular, it can teach us about how quantum mechanics can be
reconciled with gravity; it could allow us to explore extra dimensions
of space and time; and it may tell us something about an ultimate
unified theory of physics.
All things concerned Ken, I consider you very very lucky.
Tom C.
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 11:41 AM, P. J. Alling
webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote:
That looks like the most bizarre sensor defect imaginable.
On 1/6/2010 4:03 PM, Ken Waller wrote:
Resent with URL to image defect http://tinyurl.com/5wxjf
Kenneth Waller
http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f
- Original Message - From: Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com
Subject: K20D - Hot pixel ?
After approx 3850 images, my K20D started producing a defect in the
images, not related to SD card or battery charge. It occurs at all ISO's,
all lenses, shutter speeds apertures. Interestingly it is not apparent in
live view.
I've run the pixel mapping routine several time with no affect on this
spot.
It evidences itself as a noticeable bright spot near the RH edge of the
image (in landscape orientation), with a vertical black line from top to
bottom running thru the spot.
Its close enough to the RH edge that it can be cropped out with only a
small loss of image size, but I don't want to have to crop every image.
The body will probably find its way to Pentax Repair, but I thought I'd
get some input from the collective minds on the list. Depending on the cost
to repair, this may push me into getting a K7.
Your thoughts are welcomed
Kenneth Waller
http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f
--
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Courier New;}}
\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 I've just upgraded to Thunderbird 3.0 and the
interface subtly weird.\par
}
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Re: K20D - Hot pixel ?
Thanks to all for looking. Apparently it is not a wide spread defect. Doug - The shot of the defect is from a Tiff that was made directly from the RAW capture (DNG). On other images, the black line (column) is constant in width color. I've printed off the mailing label boxed the body - I'll mail it tomorrow. Kenneth Waller http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Doug Franklin jehosep...@mindspring.com Subject: Re: K20D - Hot pixel ? On 2010-01-06 17:08, Charles Robinson wrote: On Jan 6, 2010, at 15:03, Ken Waller wrote: Resent with URL to image defect http://tinyurl.com/5wxjf That is really, really weird. That is really strange. Is the lower crop from PEF or JPG? Is it full one-for-one-pixel resolution from the original? The circular white part looks entirely too circular. There's some curious artifacting inside the black spot that's inside the white spot. The black column seems to fade back almost to normal colors by the bottom of the image, but to be about full strength at the top edge. If you zoom in enough (like 10:1) you can see that the black line fades completely away as it intersects with the white spot. The black could be from the effects of a failure at one pixel on the pixels around it at either the hardware or the software. Can you shoot something like a Chromakey background (pretty uniform color across the frame)? Can you provide an 800% or so zoom of the original resolution that only includes that white spot, in GIF or PNG format to avoid JPEG's machinations? -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D - Hot pixel ?
Kenneth Waller http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Tom C caka...@gmail.com Subject: Re: K20D - Hot pixel ? I hypothesize that we are seeing the first visible evidence of a miniature black hole. The Large Hadron Collider started operating some bit over a year ago and experienced operating anomalies. An excerpt from a science website reads: That is not to say that the new collider might not actually create mini-black holes, as no one knows for sure what will emerge from the debris of the LHC collisions. Black holes are thought to represent the ultimate state of compressed matter, with gravity so powerful that any bit of matter, and even light, would be sucked inexorably inwards with no chance for escape if it gets too close to the black hole's boundary. In their study of the matter, Steve Giddings of the University of California at Santa Barbara and Michelangelo Mangano of the European Organization for Nuclear Research (the parent laboratory where LHC operates) look at what happens if there existed a type of black hole, one we'd be concerned about, that could not only survive but would continue to grow to a macroscopic size in a time shorter than billions of years Ken, I recall you recently stating that as time passes it has become more tiring to lug your photo gear into the field. Considering the super-massive properties of even miniature black holes, there could be a correlation. The white ring of light around the black center could be evidence of super-heated photons being compressed as they approach the event horizon. And the 2-dimensional vertical black line indicates the force lines that have trapped and locked the black hole in the sensor matrix. Black holes are perhaps the most profound and mysterious objects we've imagined. Being able to create and study them should teach us a lot. In particular, it can teach us about how quantum mechanics can be reconciled with gravity; it could allow us to explore extra dimensions of space and time; and it may tell us something about an ultimate unified theory of physics. All things concerned Ken, I consider you very very lucky. Me too. At least I didn't get sucked into your explanation;- I guess I'll have to stay at a Holiday Inn express again! Tom C. On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 11:41 AM, P. J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote: That looks like the most bizarre sensor defect imaginable. On 1/6/2010 4:03 PM, Ken Waller wrote: Resent with URL to image defect http://tinyurl.com/5wxjf Kenneth Waller http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com Subject: K20D - Hot pixel ? After approx 3850 images, my K20D started producing a defect in the images, not related to SD card or battery charge. It occurs at all ISO's, all lenses, shutter speeds apertures. Interestingly it is not apparent in live view. I've run the pixel mapping routine several time with no affect on this spot. It evidences itself as a noticeable bright spot near the RH edge of the image (in landscape orientation), with a vertical black line from top to bottom running thru the spot. Its close enough to the RH edge that it can be cropped out with only a small loss of image size, but I don't want to have to crop every image. The body will probably find its way to Pentax Repair, but I thought I'd get some input from the collective minds on the list. Depending on the cost to repair, this may push me into getting a K7. Your thoughts are welcomed Kenneth Waller http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D - Hot pixel ?
On 2010-01-07 15:21, Ken Waller wrote: Doug - The shot of the defect is from a Tiff that was made directly from the RAW capture (DNG). On other images, the black line (column) is constant in width color. I've printed off the mailing label boxed the body - I'll mail it tomorrow. Oh, shucks, man. You don't need to do that. I was just thinking of an email or a Flickr posting or something. In fact, if you could just email me [either this address, or franklin (at) shootingshark (dot) com, or DougF (at) NutDriver (dot) org] the original TIFF from DNG version of that small crop file with no compression, that'd be great. I just want to see what I can see at extreme magnifications, on the histogram, and stuff like that. Might even play around with stuff like edge sharpening. As clean as the circular edge of the bright spot is, it appears to be covering a /lot/ of pixels, based on the smoothness of that edge, but from the size on the original shot, it doesn't look like it's actually covering that many pixels. And I want to see if the black line fades in and out smoothly, or at all, in the original RAW data. This is the sort of case where I'd really like to be able to get deeper access to the sensor data and the downstream in-camera processing. For example, the de-Bayerization of the sensor data could be why that white circle ends up so circular, even though apparently covering too few pixels to appear that smoothly circular. That sort of effect can happen at several different levels of the processing, from the electronics of the sensor's photo sites all the way to the compression algorithm used on the image data. -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D - Hot pixel ?
On 2010-01-07 17:26, Doug Franklin wrote: Oh, and the black spot looks like a physical obstruction or a pretty complete failure of one part of the photo site's electronics. If that's the case, the white halo is probably a completely synthetic artifact of one of the algorithms along the way. Looking closely at the black spot, it shows chromatic fringing, while the white halo really doesn't. -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D - Hot pixel ?
Resent with URL to image defect http://tinyurl.com/5wxjf Kenneth Waller http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com Subject: K20D - Hot pixel ? After approx 3850 images, my K20D started producing a defect in the images, not related to SD card or battery charge. It occurs at all ISO's, all lenses, shutter speeds apertures. Interestingly it is not apparent in live view. I've run the pixel mapping routine several time with no affect on this spot. It evidences itself as a noticeable bright spot near the RH edge of the image (in landscape orientation), with a vertical black line from top to bottom running thru the spot. Its close enough to the RH edge that it can be cropped out with only a small loss of image size, but I don't want to have to crop every image. The body will probably find its way to Pentax Repair, but I thought I'd get some input from the collective minds on the list. Depending on the cost to repair, this may push me into getting a K7. Your thoughts are welcomed Kenneth Waller http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D - Hot pixel ?
On Jan 6, 2010, at 15:03, Ken Waller wrote: Resent with URL to image defect http://tinyurl.com/5wxjf That is really, really weird. Kenneth Waller http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com Subject: K20D - Hot pixel ? After approx 3850 images, my K20D started producing a defect in the images, not related to SD card or battery charge. It occurs at all ISO's, all lenses, shutter speeds apertures. Interestingly it is not apparent in live view. I've run the pixel mapping routine several time with no affect on this spot. It evidences itself as a noticeable bright spot near the RH edge of the image (in landscape orientation), with a vertical black line from top to bottom running thru the spot. Its close enough to the RH edge that it can be cropped out with only a small loss of image size, but I don't want to have to crop every image. The body will probably find its way to Pentax Repair, but I thought I'd get some input from the collective minds on the list. Depending on the cost to repair, this may push me into getting a K7. Your thoughts are welcomed Kenneth Waller http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D - Hot pixel ?
On 2010-01-06 17:08, Charles Robinson wrote: On Jan 6, 2010, at 15:03, Ken Waller wrote: Resent with URL to image defect http://tinyurl.com/5wxjf That is really, really weird. That is really strange. Is the lower crop from PEF or JPG? Is it full one-for-one-pixel resolution from the original? The circular white part looks entirely too circular. There's some curious artifacting inside the black spot that's inside the white spot. The black column seems to fade back almost to normal colors by the bottom of the image, but to be about full strength at the top edge. If you zoom in enough (like 10:1) you can see that the black line fades completely away as it intersects with the white spot. The black could be from the effects of a failure at one pixel on the pixels around it at either the hardware or the software. Can you shoot something like a Chromakey background (pretty uniform color across the frame)? Can you provide an 800% or so zoom of the original resolution that only includes that white spot, in GIF or PNG format to avoid JPEG's machinations? -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D - Hot pixel ?
Ken Waller wrote: After approx 3850 images, my K20D started producing a defect in the images, not related to SD card or battery charge. It occurs at all ISO's, all lenses, shutter speeds apertures. Interestingly it is not apparent in live view. I've run the pixel mapping routine several time with no affect on this spot. It evidences itself as a noticeable bright spot near the RH edge of the image (in landscape orientation), with a vertical black line from top to bottom running thru the spot. Any examples? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D - Hot pixel ?
On Wed, Jan 06, 2010 at 04:08:06PM -0600, Charles Robinson scripsit: On Jan 6, 2010, at 15:03, Ken Waller wrote: Resent with URL to image defect http://tinyurl.com/5wxjf That is really, really weird. Looks like the sensor lost the connector for a whole row of pixels. Definitely a depot-level repair job. -- Graydon -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D vs. K7 High ISO Noise Comparisons
In an attempt to steer the bull back onto the righteous path of Pentax talk... I saw another comparison a few weeks ago: http://falklumo.blogspot.com/2009/06/comparative-noise-study-k-7-vs-k20d.html and was surprised that Falk concluded the K20D had slightly better high ISO noise. I say surprised because I looked at the images he posted and I concluded that I liked the K-7's performance better. Looking at Max's pics Joe linked to, I find the K-7 shows better control of the luminance noise at the expense of chroma noise. So better details for the K-7 at the expense of magenta blotches. Does the K-7 have adjustable NR? I seem to remember it did. If so, then there is probably a setting (mid or high NR) on the K-7 that will give you images like those out of the K20D. As somebody who does a lot of BW, I always want higher resolution at high ISOs rather than controlled chroma noise that kills details (like I've seen on the Nikon D80 at high NR). But back to the comparison; Like Jostein, I also see the K20D shots are underexposed compared to the K-7. If all exposure values on-camera were equal, this means the K-7 boosts the signal more than the K20D. I would like to say this means it converts photons to electrons more efficiently, but I don't think the chroma noise would support this hypothesis. Another concern is that these images show different behaviour in the K-7 when compared to those by Falk (in the link I posted above). The chroma noise is much better controlled in Falk's camera, and while his K-7 also exposes a bit brighter than the K20D, the difference is much less than in Max's test. Anyone care to comment whether they see the same I do? But more importantly: Do we really care? After all, the K-7 is new and cool, and chicks dig it. That's why we all got into photography, right? :-) --M. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- http://www.EnticingTheLight.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 2009/7/25 William Robb war...@gmail.com: - Original Message - From: Joseph Tainter Subject: Re: K20D vs. K7 High ISO Noise Comparisons Unfortunately, the current first place team is the Yankees. I suppose I should be grateful that this stayed on topic for a few posts. Ya think? William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D vs. K7 High ISO Noise Comparisons
On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 7:07 PM, Misereremiser...@gmail.com wrote: Does the K-7 have adjustable NR? I seem to remember it did. If so, then there is probably a setting (mid or high NR) on the K-7 that will give you images like those out of the K20D. Yep :) Noise Reduction in High Iso: None, Light, Medium, Strong Noise Reduction High Iso Kick-in (translated from French): 200 / 400 / 800 / 1600 Long Exposure Noise Reduction (Dark Frame Substraction?): Yes / No As somebody who does a lot of BW, I always want higher resolution at high ISOs rather than controlled chroma noise that kills details (like I've seen on the Nikon D80 at high NR). Indeed. I suspect that 'Strong Noise Reduction' in Pentax Language somehow means Medium or Light in Canikon Language. -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- Photo: K10D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... Thinkpad: X23+UB,X60+UB Programing: D7 user (trying out D2007) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D vs. K7 High ISO Noise Comparisons
On 24/07/2009, Joseph Tainter jtain...@mindspring.com wrote: This guy has posted the best controlled comparison I have seen of noise levels in the two cameras: http://www.flickr.com/photos/51031...@n00/sets/72157621362031046/ Navigate through until you get to the original size images. Pentax claimed that the K7 would have lower noise. This is clearly not so. The difference is especially apparent at ISO 3200 and 6400 (both of which I would like to use). I'm glad I haven't yet bought a K7. I may still buy one, but not for better noise. Or I may wait to see what testing shows when the K8 comes out. Some reports claim that Pentax implemented less noise reduction in RAW images from the K7, and that this accounts for its poorer noise performance. I don't know whether this is true or just BS. From what I read, the K7 is a fine camera in other respects. Joe just bear in mind too that this is a short exposure high ISO noise test, the results may be quite different at lower ambient light levels. Not that I expect that much difference, can't make a silk purse -- Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC +10 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D vs. K7 High ISO Noise Comparisons
2009/7/23 Joseph Tainter jtain...@mindspring.com: Pentax claimed that the K7 would have lower noise. This is clearly not so. The difference is especially apparent at ISO 3200 and 6400 (both of which I would like to use). When I look at those images, it strikes me that the K20D pics looks slightly underexposed. I downloaded the ISO 1600 images and compared the histograms, and that only reinforced the impression. However I don't have any photo editing software on the computer I'm at today, so I can't lift the K20D image to see how comparable brightness affects the noise comparison. I suspect they will become quite similar, though. I'm glad I haven't yet bought a K-7. I may still buy one, but not for better noise. Or I may wait to see what testing shows when the K8 comes out. Some rumor mill had it that 8 was avoided because of Asian connotations about bad luck, and that K-9 was unacceptable to cat lovers. Or something. :-) Seriously, though, I personally believe the K-7 to be a sort of one-off; a test-bed for technology intended for the 645 due next year. Jostein -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D vs. K7 High ISO Noise Comparisons
Seriously, though, I personally believe the K-7 to be a sort of one-off; a test-bed for technology intended for the 645 due next year. Jostein - Interesting. But there is some good new technology and software in the K-7, so surely Pentax would use that, and build on it, in future APS-C DSLRs? Joe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D vs. K7 High ISO Noise Comparisons
Ah yes, hope springs eternal. Ask any Red Sox fan, and after almost a century... AlunFoto wrote: 2009/7/23 Joseph Tainter jtain...@mindspring.com: Pentax claimed that the K7 would have lower noise. This is clearly not so. The difference is especially apparent at ISO 3200 and 6400 (both of which I would like to use). When I look at those images, it strikes me that the K20D pics looks slightly underexposed. I downloaded the ISO 1600 images and compared the histograms, and that only reinforced the impression. However I don't have any photo editing software on the computer I'm at today, so I can't lift the K20D image to see how comparable brightness affects the noise comparison. I suspect they will become quite similar, though. I'm glad I haven't yet bought a K-7. I may still buy one, but not for better noise. Or I may wait to see what testing shows when the K8 comes out. Some rumor mill had it that 8 was avoided because of Asian connotations about bad luck, and that K-9 was unacceptable to cat lovers. Or something. :-) Seriously, though, I personally believe the K-7 to be a sort of one-off; a test-bed for technology intended for the 645 due next year. Jostein -- The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. --G. K. Chesterton -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: K20D vs. K7 High ISO Noise Comparisons
Huh? They won in 2004 and 2007. Do Cub fans have any hope? -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of P. J. Alling Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:40 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: K20D vs. K7 High ISO Noise Comparisons Ah yes, hope springs eternal. Ask any Red Sox fan, and after almost a century... AlunFoto wrote: 2009/7/23 Joseph Tainter jtain...@mindspring.com: Pentax claimed that the K7 would have lower noise. This is clearly not so. The difference is especially apparent at ISO 3200 and 6400 (both of which I would like to use). When I look at those images, it strikes me that the K20D pics looks slightly underexposed. I downloaded the ISO 1600 images and compared the histograms, and that only reinforced the impression. However I don't have any photo editing software on the computer I'm at today, so I can't lift the K20D image to see how comparable brightness affects the noise comparison. I suspect they will become quite similar, though. I'm glad I haven't yet bought a K-7. I may still buy one, but not for better noise. Or I may wait to see what testing shows when the K8 comes out. Some rumor mill had it that 8 was avoided because of Asian connotations about bad luck, and that K-9 was unacceptable to cat lovers. Or something. :-) Seriously, though, I personally believe the K-7 to be a sort of one-off; a test-bed for technology intended for the 645 due next year. Jostein -- The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. --G. K. Chesterton -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D vs. K7 High ISO Noise Comparisons
Kinda my point. However Pentax has only been promising a 645D for 3 or 4 years now approximately 90 left to go... Desjardins, Steve wrote: Huh? They won in 2004 and 2007. Do Cub fans have any hope? -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of P. J. Alling Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:40 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: K20D vs. K7 High ISO Noise Comparisons Ah yes, hope springs eternal. Ask any Red Sox fan, and after almost a century... AlunFoto wrote: 2009/7/23 Joseph Tainter jtain...@mindspring.com: Pentax claimed that the K7 would have lower noise. This is clearly not so. The difference is especially apparent at ISO 3200 and 6400 (both of which I would like to use). When I look at those images, it strikes me that the K20D pics looks slightly underexposed. I downloaded the ISO 1600 images and compared the histograms, and that only reinforced the impression. However I don't have any photo editing software on the computer I'm at today, so I can't lift the K20D image to see how comparable brightness affects the noise comparison. I suspect they will become quite similar, though. I'm glad I haven't yet bought a K-7. I may still buy one, but not for better noise. Or I may wait to see what testing shows when the K8 comes out. Some rumor mill had it that 8 was avoided because of Asian connotations about bad luck, and that K-9 was unacceptable to cat lovers. Or something. :-) Seriously, though, I personally believe the K-7 to be a sort of one-off; a test-bed for technology intended for the 645 due next year. Jostein -- The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. --G. K. Chesterton -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D vs. K7 High ISO Noise Comparisons
You're speaking of the current First Place team? The Boston Red Sox? They're looking good for this year as well! Fingers crossed... :—) On Jul 24, 2009, at 11:58 , Desjardins, Steve wrote: Huh? They won in 2004 and 2007. Do Cub fans have any hope? -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of P. J. Alling Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:40 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: K20D vs. K7 High ISO Noise Comparisons Ah yes, hope springs eternal. Ask any Red Sox fan, and after almost a century... Joseph McAllister Pentaxian http://gallery.me.com/jomac http://web.me.com/jomac/show.me/Blog/Blog.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D vs. K7 High ISO Noise Comparisons
Unfortunately, the current first place team is the Yankees. Steve Desjardins On Jul 24, 2009, at 6:32 PM, Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com wrote: You're speaking of the current First Place team? The Boston Red Sox? They're looking good for this year as well! Fingers crossed... : —) On Jul 24, 2009, at 11:58 , Desjardins, Steve wrote: Huh? They won in 2004 and 2007. Do Cub fans have any hope? -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of P. J. Alling Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:40 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: K20D vs. K7 High ISO Noise Comparisons Ah yes, hope springs eternal. Ask any Red Sox fan, and after almost a century... Joseph McAllister Pentaxian http://gallery.me.com/jomac http://web.me.com/jomac/show.me/Blog/Blog.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D vs. K7 High ISO Noise Comparisons
Unfortunately, the current first place team is the Yankees. I suppose I should be grateful that this stayed on topic for a few posts. Joe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D vs. K7 High ISO Noise Comparisons
- Original Message - From: Joseph Tainter Subject: Re: K20D vs. K7 High ISO Noise Comparisons Unfortunately, the current first place team is the Yankees. I suppose I should be grateful that this stayed on topic for a few posts. Ya think? William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D vs. K7 High ISO Noise Comparisons
There is less chroma noise IMO. When noise is there it is less annoying than the K20D it seems (it seems 'cos I do not own a K20D). I indeed prefer that kind of noise than from my K10D, clearly. -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- Photo: K10D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... Thinkpad: X23+UB,X60+UB Programing: D7 user (trying out D2007) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K20D vs. K7 High ISO Noise Comparisons
Curiously enough I happen to know Max in person. He's really a great guy. Now to the test. I looked at ISO 1600 images and liked that of K-7 more. In the conditions similar to those of this test ISO 1600 is perfectly usable. At ISO 3200 it seems to me that K20D simply applies a bit more of NR resulting in less noise and less crispness in the image. And finally ISO 6400 seems to be more like emergency option as it is likely to be used under low light where it will be far less IQ than what Max presented. Interestingly enough, though color temperature is preset the colors are different between the two cameras... So indeed, if noise is *the issue* and one does not to bother with NR software, K20D can be a better choice. Coming from K10D, I think K-7 is good upgrade nonetheless... Boris Joseph Tainter wrote: This guy has posted the best controlled comparison I have seen of noise levels in the two cameras: http://www.flickr.com/photos/51031...@n00/sets/72157621362031046/ Navigate through until you get to the original size images. Pentax claimed that the K7 would have lower noise. This is clearly not so. The difference is especially apparent at ISO 3200 and 6400 (both of which I would like to use). I'm glad I haven't yet bought a K7. I may still buy one, but not for better noise. Or I may wait to see what testing shows when the K8 comes out. Some reports claim that Pentax implemented less noise reduction in RAW images from the K7, and that this accounts for its poorer noise performance. I don't know whether this is true or just BS. From what I read, the K7 is a fine camera in other respects. Joe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: :( K20D gone.
On 16/7/09, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: I used to enjoy paying Gorilla Expensive monkey-business! -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: :( K20D gone.
I used to enjoy paying Gorilla Expensive monkey-business! it was an £800 gorilla -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: :( K20D gone.
Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: I used to enjoy paying Gorilla, No doubt too late but Mark! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: :( K20D gone.
I was eaten by a Grue... Larry Colen wrote: On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 01:52:13AM +0100, Bob W wrote: I used to enjoy paying Gorilla, which came with DOS. And Moonlanding, which was supplied on ICL 1901T mainframes from the 60s - a computer game played on a teletype console. You are in a maze of twisted computer game reminisences, all alike. -- The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. --G. K. Chesterton -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
