Re: Semi-OT: Paint Shop Pro Photo X2
On 2011-04-03 21:39 , John Francis wrote: With a steep learning curve, you'd leasrn enough to get over that bar in a short span of time. With a shallow learning curve, though, you would have to spend far more time before you became proficient. That, in my opinion, would be a far less desirable situation. my interpretation has been that the curve represents effort on the y axis and amount of proficiency gained on the x axis, but i guess there's more to it than that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning_curve#Common_terms -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Semi-OT: Paint Shop Pro Photo X2
On Sun, 03 Apr 2011 21:24 -0500, Walter Gilbert ldott...@gmail.com wrote: On 4/3/2011 5:19 PM, Larry Colen wrote: I'm pretty sure that Bibble has a demo version. Give that a try. Less expensive than lightroom, and they have a few features I miss in lightroom, like being able to sort by things like ISO. I'll definitely look into Bibble. I have The GIMP and have been tooling around with it. But, so far, it's completely alien to me, and has a fairly steep learning curve. Thanks for the info. Another possibility you might consider is an image cataloguing program linked to a photo editor. This is probably less efficient than Lightroom, Bibble etc where both features are included in the one program, but it is far less expensive. I use a cataloguing program called Studioline Photo Classic (there is a freeware version called Studioline Photo Basic). It reads PEF and DNG, includes a good range of photo editing tools and has rudimentary RAW conversion, but it also allows the user to link to an external Photo Editor/RAW converter. When I want to work on a DNG file, I just open it in ACR/Photoshop directly from Studioline - but you could equally use any other raw converter such as the Pentax Digital Camera Utility, Raw Therapee (freeware) or GIMP with the UFRaw plug-in. http://www.studioline.biz/EN/ Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/ -- -- http://www.fastmail.fm - The way an email service should be -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Semi-OT: Paint Shop Pro Photo X2
On Sun, 03 Apr 2011 13:59 -0500, Walter Gilbert ldott...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, So, I recently inherited a copy of this software from my brother who was using it to edit and catalog photos of is granddaughter, but decided he didn't need all the bells and whistles that came along with it and wanted something a little more basic. Given that my old copy of Photoshop 7 predates DNG support and I can't seem to find the plugin that will make it do so, I thought I'd give it a shot. (I don't have the dough to spend on CS or LR, unfortunately, so my options are limited here.) Does anyone have any experience with this software at all? Because, so far, I'm very much less than impressed with it, and not for lack of features. It seems fine in that regard. What is really, really grating on me is the extreme -- and I use that word advisedly -- slowness in cataloging my DNG files in the organizer. It's taking somewhere around four seconds per photo! Picasa doesn't have this problem at all. It zips right through them like a hot knife through butter. Unfortunately, Picasa doesn't have the features that PSP does. Otherwise, I'd just say screw it. Anyone know why it might be taking so long to catalog these photos, and any idea if there's something that can be done to speed up the process? It really is irksome. I have no experience with PSP or Picasa (other than using the Picasa web gallery). But lack of experience in a subject has never been a barrier to sounding knowledgeable about it Could it be that Picasa is just cataloguing the jpg previews that are built into DNG files and that PSP is actually processing the raw data? The latter would be heavier on computer resources. Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/ -- -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Same, same, but different... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Semi-OT: Paint Shop Pro Photo X2
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/waltergilbert http://waltgilbert.posterous.com/ http://polipix.posterous.com/ Contact Me Facebook http://www.facebook.com/walt.gilbertFlickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/walt_gilbert/Twitter http://twitter.com/walt_gilbert --- @ WiseStamp Signature http://my.wisestamp.com/link?u=ypgdb385pypw7fhbsite=www.wisestamp.com/email-install. Get it now http://my.wisestamp.com/link?u=ypgdb385pypw7fhbsite=www.wisestamp.com/email-install On 4/3/2011 4:30 PM, Brian Walters wrote: On Sun, 03 Apr 2011 13:59 -0500, Walter Gilbertldott...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, So, I recently inherited a copy of this software from my brother who was using it to edit and catalog photos of is granddaughter, but decided he didn't need all the bells and whistles that came along with it and wanted something a little more basic. Given that my old copy of Photoshop 7 predates DNG support and I can't seem to find the plugin that will make it do so, I thought I'd give it a shot. (I don't have the dough to spend on CS or LR, unfortunately, so my options are limited here.) Does anyone have any experience with this software at all? Because, so far, I'm very much less than impressed with it, and not for lack of features. It seems fine in that regard. What is really, really grating on me is the extreme -- and I use that word advisedly -- slowness in cataloging my DNG files in the organizer. It's taking somewhere around four seconds per photo! Picasa doesn't have this problem at all. It zips right through them like a hot knife through butter. Unfortunately, Picasa doesn't have the features that PSP does. Otherwise, I'd just say screw it. Anyone know why it might be taking so long to catalog these photos, and any idea if there's something that can be done to speed up the process? It really is irksome. I have no experience with PSP or Picasa (other than using the Picasa web gallery). But lack of experience in a subject has never been a barrier to sounding knowledgeable about it Could it be that Picasa is just cataloguing the jpg previews that are built into DNG files and that PSP is actually processing the raw data? The latter would be heavier on computer resources. Well, Brian -- that's a hell of a lot more knowledgeable a guess than I ever would have come up with, and sounds perfectly reasonable to me. I think I'm going to see if I can find an older version of Lightroom on the cheap, somehow. I just don't like the Paint Shop Pro layout at all -- aside from the fact that it's cumbersome, it just doesn't strike as as intuitive the way the Lightroom tutorial videos I've seen appear to be. (I will say that Picasa is a very useful basic editor for me, though. Especially when it comes to removing sensor noise, blemishes, etc. And as a basic cropping tool, it's the easiest one I've ever tried. Thanks for the input! -- Walt Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Semi-OT: Paint Shop Pro Photo X2
On Apr 3, 2011, at 11:59 AM, Walter Gilbert wrote: Hi all, So, I recently inherited a copy of this software from my brother who was using it to edit and catalog photos of is granddaughter, but decided he didn't need all the bells and whistles that came along with it and wanted something a little more basic. Given that my old copy of Photoshop 7 predates DNG support and I can't seem to find the plugin that will make it do so, I thought I'd give it a shot. (I don't have the dough to spend on CS or LR, unfortunately, so my options are limited here.) Walt, I'm pretty sure that Bibble has a demo version. Give that a try. Less expensive than lightroom, and they have a few features I miss in lightroom, like being able to sort by things like ISO. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Semi-OT: Paint Shop Pro Photo X2
On 4/3/2011 5:19 PM, Larry Colen wrote: On Apr 3, 2011, at 11:59 AM, Walter Gilbert wrote: Hi all, So, I recently inherited a copy of this software from my brother who was using it to edit and catalog photos of is granddaughter, but decided he didn't need all the bells and whistles that came along with it and wanted something a little more basic. Given that my old copy of Photoshop 7 predates DNG support and I can't seem to find the plugin that will make it do so, I thought I'd give it a shot. (I don't have the dough to spend on CS or LR, unfortunately, so my options are limited here.) Walt, I'm pretty sure that Bibble has a demo version. Give that a try. Less expensive than lightroom, and they have a few features I miss in lightroom, like being able to sort by things like ISO. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est I'll definitely look into Bibble. I have The GIMP and have been tooling around with it. But, so far, it's completely alien to me, and has a fairly steep learning curve. Thanks for the info. -- Walt -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Semi-OT: Paint Shop Pro Photo X2
On Apr 3, 2011, at 7:24 PM, Walter Gilbert wrote: On 4/3/2011 5:19 PM, Larry Colen wrote: On Apr 3, 2011, at 11:59 AM, Walter Gilbert wrote: Hi all, So, I recently inherited a copy of this software from my brother who was using it to edit and catalog photos of is granddaughter, but decided he didn't need all the bells and whistles that came along with it and wanted something a little more basic. Given that my old copy of Photoshop 7 predates DNG support and I can't seem to find the plugin that will make it do so, I thought I'd give it a shot. (I don't have the dough to spend on CS or LR, unfortunately, so my options are limited here.) Walt, I'm pretty sure that Bibble has a demo version. Give that a try. Less expensive than lightroom, and they have a few features I miss in lightroom, like being able to sort by things like ISO. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est I'll definitely look into Bibble. I have The GIMP and have been tooling around with it. But, so far, it's completely alien to me, and has a fairly steep learning curve. Thanks for the info. I was planning on using the GIMP for processing, even picked up my friend Akkana's book on it. Then as I learned more I found out that it only handles 8 bits, though there was work on a 16 bit version. -- Walt -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Semi-OT: Paint Shop Pro Photo X2
On Sun, Apr 03, 2011 at 09:24:14PM -0500, Walter Gilbert wrote: I'll definitely look into Bibble. I have The GIMP and have been tooling around with it. But, so far, it's completely alien to me, and has a fairly steep learning curve. Time for me to let loose with one of my pet objections. Nothing personal, Walt - I know that it's accepted usage. But having a steep learning curve would actually be a good thing. What people actually mean, when they say this, is that the program in question has a high bar to get over before you can use it proficiently. With a steep learning curve, you'd leasrn enough to get over that bar in a short span of time. With a shallow learning curve, though, you would have to spend far more time before you became proficient. That, in my opinion, would be a far less desirable situation. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Semi-OT: Paint Shop Pro Photo X2
On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 8:39 PM, John Francis jo...@panix.com wrote: But having a steep learning curve would actually be a good thing. What people actually mean, when they say this, is that the program in question has a high bar to get over before you can use it proficiently. With a steep learning curve, you'd leasrn enough to get over that bar in a short span of time. With a shallow learning curve, though, you would have to spend far more time before you became proficient. That, in my opinion, would be a far less desirable situation. Hmm. The metaphor of 'a steep learning curve' is to say that something with this characteristic takes a lot of effort to learn ... there's a lot to learn in a relatively short space of time to achieve a proficient skill. Kind of like climbing a steep hill .. it takes a lot more effort in unit time to achieve the top of the hill if the hill is steep. . With an easy or gradual learning curve, one doesn't have to work as hard to become skilled ... the distance may or may not be as high, but the slope is longer so it's easier to move along it. -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Semi-OT: Paint Shop Pro Photo X2
On 4/3/2011 11:18 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 8:39 PM, John Francisjo...@panix.com wrote: But having a steep learning curve would actually be a good thing. What people actually mean, when they say this, is that the program in question has a high bar to get over before you can use it proficiently. With a steep learning curve, you'd leasrn enough to get over that bar in a short span of time. With a shallow learning curve, though, you would have to spend far more time before you became proficient. That, in my opinion, would be a far less desirable situation. Hmm. The metaphor of 'a steep learning curve' is to say that something with this characteristic takes a lot of effort to learn ... there's a lot to learn in a relatively short space of time to achieve a proficient skill. Kind of like climbing a steep hill .. it takes a lot more effort in unit time to achieve the top of the hill if the hill is steep. . With an easy or gradual learning curve, one doesn't have to work as hard to become skilled ... the distance may or may not be as high, but the slope is longer so it's easier to move along it. Come to think of it, it was probably a poor choice of metaphor to begin with, inasmuch as I don't really have any time constraints to deal with. To the extent that there is a steep learning curve, it's more a function of my ability to get a grasp on the application before getting frustrated and putting it off for another time. So, instead of using the learning curve analogy, I probably just should have said, Me no grok The GIMP. -- Walt -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
