Russia raises growth forecast
Russia raises growth forecast AFP March 25, 2004 MOSCOW - Russia's economy chief has raised the nation's growth forecast for the next year by more than one percentage point only days after President Vladimir Putin scolded him in public for moving too slowly on reform. Russia's Economic Development and Trade Minister German Gref said his earlier forecast of 5.2% growth for next year was off and could now be raised to 6.4%. He attributed the change to the continuing strength in global oil prices Russia's main export that has fueled economic growth during Putin's first four years in power. Russia's gross domestic product (GDP) rose by 7.3% last year and Putin, days after his overwhelming reelection on March 14, met Gref and other top economy ministers, ordering them to ensure annual economic growth of at least five%, and preferably higher. Putin's comments appeared to be directed personally at Gref, a liberal who has been more cautious in his approach to growth figures due to a potential fall in oil prices. But the Interfax news agency quoted Gref as saying Thursday that the economy next year should grow by 6.4% while inflation should drop to between 6.5 and 8.5% over the next two yearsthe first time inflation would drop to single digits in the post-Soviet era. Prices rose in Russia by 12% in 2003. GOVERNMENT APPROVES ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT SCENARIOS FOR 2005-2007 MOSCOW, March 25, 2004 (RIA Novosti) - At its Thursday session, the Russian government approved most of the development scenarios of the national economy for 2005-2007. Minister of Economic Development and Trade German Gref told reporters that Russia's GDP growth was forecasted to reach 6.4% in 2004, and 6.2% in 2005. According to the minister, the rate of inflation is expected to make 6.5-8.5% in 2005. In 2007, it is to go down to 4-6%, and by 2010 - to 2-4%. The ministry's forecast says that the inflation will make 10% this year. The strengthening of the ruble against the dollar will account for 8.7% this year, and 2.5% in 2005, and the real strengthening of the effective ruble exchange rate in 2004 will stand at 7.9%, and in 2005 - 5.2%. The index of the real exchange rate of the ruble against the dollar is forecasted to be 99.1% in 2005, with subsequent strengthening by 2.1-2.3% by 2007. According to the Ministry of Economic Development and Trade, the average oil price for 2004 will make $27.5 per barrel. According to Mr. Gref, the forecast of oil prices was corrected on Wednesday in view of updated forecasts of the leading international agencies. In 2005, according to the optimistic scenario, the Ministry of Economic Development and Trade forecasts the oil price at $26 per barrel. According to the pessimistic forecast, in 2004 the average oil price will make $23.5 per barrel, and in the subsequent years - $20 per barrel. In 2004, Russia plans to export 242 million tons of oil. In 2005 this figure will grow up to 247 million tons, in 2006 - to 253 million, and in 2007 - 260 million tons. According to the minister, Russia may extract far more oil but its export is limited by the transport infrastructure. If we resolve this problem, exports may grow, said Mr. Gref. According to him, the growth margin for tariffs in Russia in 2005 will be as follows: gas tariffs - 20%, electricity - 10%, and cargo railway freight transportation - 9%. At the same time, Mr. Gref said that the government would be analyzing budgets and investment programs of natural monopolies in May, and might lower the growth ceiling. The minister also said that investment in the Russian economy would double in the next four years - from $71 billion in 2003 to $145 billion in 2007. According to the government, direct foreign investment will go up to $9-9.5 billion. Scenarios of the Russian economic development for 2005-2007 will be finalized before April 1, with due account for the recommendations voiced at the government session, and then the document will be submitted to ministries and departments, and to the regions. On the basis of this document, ministries and regional authorities will present their views on the development of industries and regions. This material will lie at the basis of the socio-economic forecast for 2005 and for a medium term, said Mr. Gref. According to him, the government will consider the scenarios for the second time in May, and for the third and final time - in July, before the final approval of the 2005 draft federal budget by the government. Mr. Gref noted that the budget process that began today with the adoption of scenarios ran on schedule. Russia aims to reduce economic dependence on external factors ITAR-TASS March 25, 2004 The Russian government is to try and reduce the national economy's dependence on external factors, ITAR-TASS news agency reported on 25 March. Deputy Prime Minister Aleksandr Zhukov told a sitting of the Cabinet of Ministers that the government would endeavour to lessen the
Re: More on the labor theory of value
To be honest, this is just more evidence of German overmanning. Does an orchestra really need two trombone players, a timpanist and an oboist, each of whom only plays a couple of notes? Surely there's some scope for retraining multitasking and flexible labour practices here. If everyone achieved the same level of productivity as the violinists, we could get those bloody Mahler symphonies over in a quarter of an hour. Or better still, outsource the whole thing and play them in a call centre in Bangalore. dd On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:46:29 -0800, Devine, James wrote: of course, this isn't really about the labor theory of value, since the players produce a collective product with a collective labor process in which external benefits amongst workers imply that the effects of individual labors can't be separated. Being paid more for more effort is about the theory of wage-determination, not the theory of value of the products of labor. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -Original Message- From: michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEN-L] More on the labor theory of value We're being fiddled, say violinists AP, Berlin Wednesday March 24, 2004 The Guardian Violinists at a German orchestra are suing for a pay rise on the grounds that they play many more notes per concert than their musical colleagues - a litigation that the orchestra's director yesterday called absurd. The 16 violinists at the Beethoven Orchestra, in the former West German capital Bonn argue that they work more than their colleagues who play instruments including the flute, oboe and trombone. The violinists also say that a collective bargaining agreement that gives bonuses to performers who play solos is unjust. But the orchestra's director Laurentius Bonitz said it was unreasonable to compare playing a musical instrument with other jobs. The suit is ridiculous, Bonitz said in a telephone interview. It's absurd. He also argued that soloists and musicians in other leading roles - such as the orchestra's two oboe players - should perhaps make more money. Maybe it's an interesting legal question but musically, it's very clear to everyone, Bonitz said. The case is scheduled to go before a labour judge later this year. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University michael at ecst.csuchico.edu Chico, CA 95929 530-898-5321 fax 530-898-5901
Facing South
F A C I N G S O U T H A progressive Southern news report March 25, 2004 * Issue 77 _ INSTITUTE INDEX * The State Of Things Number of voters age 18-29 who think the country is off on the wrong track: 58 Number of states that have created as many jobs as President Bush predicted last year: 3 Number of states in the South that have: 0 Percent of African-Americans who are unemployed or have given up looking for jobs: 13.5 Amount by which President Bush's budget underfunds the No Child Left Behind Act, in billions: $9.4 Percent that credit card debt has increased in last five years: 185 Number of people that filed for bankruptcy in 2003, in millions: 1.6 Income of Citigroup executive Sandy Weil in 2003, per day: $122,466 Sources on file at the Institute for Southern Studies. _ DATELINE: THE SOUTH * Top Stories Around the Region WELCOME TO ARMAGEDDON Newport, Tennessee is one of hundreds of sites around the country where the military has stored deadly chemicals supposedly regulated by the 1997 Chemical Weapons Convention. Residents say the sites are poisoning their communities, and at 200 sites, the military cannot account for missing chemical-warfare agents. (Salon.com, 3/23) http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/03/23/armageddon/print.html AFRICAN-AMERICAN DEATH RATE IN IRAQ EXCEEDS THAT OF VIETNAM Although African-Americans make up 12 percent of the U.S. population, over 14 percent of those killed in combat in Iraq have been black. Latino soldiers account for over 11 percent of the military dead. This surpases the rates of the Korean and Vietnam wars. (BlackAmericaWeb.com, 3/17) http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.aspx/bawnews/deaths SOUTHERN PEACE MARCH DRAWS OVER 1,500 IN FAYETTEVILLE War protesters gathered in Fayetteville, NC on March 20, hoping to do for soldiers in the Middle East what an earlier generation of activists helped do for soldiers in Vietnam: Bring them home. About 1,500 people from across the Southeast in a peaceful protest against the U.S. occupation of Iraq. (Charleston Post-Courier, 3/21) http://www.charleston.net/stories/032104/sta_21peace.shtml ANTI-WAR SOLDIER DEFENDS CHOICE TO FLEE TO CANADA In January, Army Spc. Jeremy Hinzman -- a weapons specialist with the 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Bragg, N.C. -- packed his bags and his family and headed to Canada. He says he stands by his decision to refuse to serve in the Iraq war, which he calls an act of aggression based on false pretenses. (Atlanta Journal-Constitution, 3/23) http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/0304/23hinzman.html WORKERS START SHOW US THE JOBS TOUR Unemployed workers from every state in the nation have started a bus tour across the country to put a human face on the nation's job crisis. A handful -- including workers from Georgia, South Carolina and West Virginia -- will be posting regular weblog entries about the experience. http://www.showusthejobs.com/ ALABAMA PRISON STILL SEGREGATING HIV INMATES Julia Tutwiler Prison in Wetumpka, Alabama, is the nation's last that completely segregates inmates who carry the HIV virus. Mississippi and South Carolina are the only two other states that keep HIV inmates in their own sleeping quarters, but they do integrate the prisoners into educational and vocational programs. (Associated Press, 3/19) http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=519ncid=519e=13u=/ap/20040319/ap_on_re_us/hiv_prisoners_1 PEOPLE MOVING LESS; BUT IF THEY MOVE, THEY GO SOUTH Americans are moving at some of the lowest rates in more than 50 years, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. But when they move, they either go South or West. From 2002-2003, the South had the highest rate of domestic in-migration. (U.S. Census Bureau, 3/1/04) http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/mobility_of_the_population/001729.html NEW ORLEANS NATIVE AMERICANS CELEBRATE SUPER SUNDAY On March 21, thousands gathered in New Orleans to celebrate Super Sunday -- not the football game, but the annual Mardi Gras celebration of Native Americans. (New York Times, 3/22 -- reg. req'd) http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/22/national/22MARD.html
Proposed Berkeley Senate Resolution: Patriot Act
Subject: Proposed Berkeley Senate resolution: Patriot Act Attached (and pasted in below) you will find a proposed resolution that has been sent to the Academic Senate along with a request for a special meeting to vote on it. It urges non-compliance with the USA PATRIOT Act. (Please note that we did not distribute this resolution widely in search of sponsors, in the interest of time.) There have been suggestions that it is not strong enough - that is, that it places too much power in the hands of the Chancellor and doesn't require him/her to make public any inquiries or subpoenas under the Patriot Act. However, there are important legal issues involved, which doubtless will be discussed at the Senate meeting, and amendments are possible. The statement was developed by the Faculty-Staff Peace Committee, with input from other faculty. We are fortunate to have had the advice and co-sponsorship of Tom Campbell, Dean of the Haas School of Business and former Republican member of Congress (and a lawyer who knows the PATRIOT Act well; for recent background, see the article in the most recent issue of the California Monthly, http://209.232.194.53/Alumni/Cal_Monthly/December_2003/ Patriot_vs_patriot_.asp). At this point, we would like to ask you to distribute this proposed resolution as widely as possible among American university colleagues, especially those at other UC campuses. Please be sure to point out that it has not yet been passed by the Senate! There is good reason to believe that the resolution's proposals can only be implemented systemwide, so pressure has to come from other campuses. We hope, therefore, that other campuses will pass similar resolutions. An important goal (see the last point of the resolution) is to get universities in the U.S. to pressure Congress to revise the Act (there is such a bill already under consideration), possibly through concerted action in an organization such as the Association of American Universities. The AAU is an association of 60 leading research universities (http://www.aau.edu/aau/members.html), and it could have considerable influence if it were to make representations to Congress to amend the Act. Another goal is to get universities to form a group agreeing to work together to pursue a court case against the Act if a subpoena is issued. We also feel that there is a good chance that student groups would take up this issue around the country. If you contact colleagues at another UC campus, please send me a cc. It would be most helpful if you could send separate emails to colleagues on each UC campus so that I can organize your emails easily by campus. Then I can put colleagues on the various campuses in touch with each other so that they don't duplicate their efforts. I will notify you of a strategy session before the Senate meeting. Yours, Dan Wilson PS: Please let me know if you've received this message twice from me, or if you'd like your name removed from the list. The list of about 150 faculty contains, among others, the signers of last year's Emma Goldman petition that led to the forum on the Patriot Act and its impact on the campus. For information contact Prof. W. Daniel Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resolution on the University's Response to the USA PATRIOT Act and Related Measures To be presented to the Academic Senate University of California, Berkeley [Submitted to the Senate on Feb. 5, 2004, with a request for a special meeting] WHEREAS the preservation of civil rights and civil liberties is a pillar of the American polity and is essential to the well-being of any democracy, particularly during times of conflict when such rights and liberties may be threatened, and WHEREAS the USA PATRIOT Act (Public Law 107-56) and related executive orders contain provisions that violate basic civil rights of students, faculty, and staff of the University of California at Berkeley by, among other things, authorizing - secret monitoring of the email communications and internet activities of students, faculty, or staff, and wiretaps of phones; -law enforcement access to medical, financial, and academic records of students, faculty, or staff, without customary administrative oversight, probable cause, and notification of the person whose records are being sought; -law enforcement directives to libraries and bookstores to maintain and produce records pertaining to circulation and/or purchase of books by students, faculty, staff, and other patrons while forbidding disclosure that such records have been requested or provided; - the arbitrary designation of domestic groups, including political and religious groups, as terrorist organizations; -the deportation, or indefinite detention, of non-citizens without charging them with, or showing evidence to them of, a crime; and WHEREAS the threat posed by these measures can create an atmosphere of fear
Re: American flags
On Friday, March 26, 2004 at 06:52:41 (+0100) Gassler Robert writes: We can either reject an important symbol for all sorts of intellectual reasons, or embrace it and tap into the emotions of a majority of the population. If the flag has been used against the left so effectively, why insist on letting the right keep using it? All sorts of (intellectual) reasons such as the rejection of using state symbols and emotion to sway people, otherwise known as demagoguery. The flag is not an instrument. To use it as such is dangerous and irresponsible. Bill
Al Franken on love
Q. 9. Why do liberals like you, Al Franken, hate America? A. Liberals like me love America. We just love America in a different way. You love America like a 4-year-old loves his mommy. Liberals love America like grown-ups. To a 4-year-old, everything Mommy does is wonderful and anyone who criticizes Mommy is bad. Grown-up love means actually understanding what you love, taking the good with the bad and helping your loved one grow. Love takes attention and work and is the best thing in the world. That's why we liberals want America to do the right thing. We know America is the hope of the world, and we love it and want it to do well. We also want it to do good. ---Al Franken, NY Times, March 23, 2004
Re: More on the labor theory of value
Even better, in the case of stuff by Wagner, just don't do it. JD Wagner's music is better than it sounds. -- Mark Twain (paraphrased). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Fri 3/26/2004 2:46 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Subject: Re: [PEN-L] More on the labor theory of value To be honest, this is just more evidence of German overmanning. Does an orchestra really need two trombone players, a timpanist and an oboist, each of whom only plays a couple of notes? Surely there's some scope for retraining multitasking and flexible labour practices here. If everyone achieved the same level of productivity as the violinists, we could get those bloody Mahler symphonies over in a quarter of an hour. Or better still, outsource the whole thing and play them in a call centre in Bangalore. dd On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:46:29 -0800, Devine, James wrote: of course, this isn't really about the labor theory of value, since the players produce a collective product with a collective labor process in which external benefits amongst workers imply that the effects of individual labors can't be separated. Being paid more for more effort is about the theory of wage-determination, not the theory of value of the products of labor. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -Original Message- From: michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEN-L] More on the labor theory of value We're being fiddled, say violinists AP, Berlin Wednesday March 24, 2004 The Guardian Violinists at a German orchestra are suing for a pay rise on the grounds that they play many more notes per concert than their musical colleagues - a litigation that the orchestra's director yesterday called absurd. The 16 violinists at the Beethoven Orchestra, in the former West German capital Bonn argue that they work more than their colleagues who play instruments including the flute, oboe and trombone. The violinists also say that a collective bargaining agreement that gives bonuses to performers who play solos is unjust. But the orchestra's director Laurentius Bonitz said it was unreasonable to compare playing a musical instrument with other jobs. The suit is ridiculous, Bonitz said in a telephone interview. It's absurd. He also argued that soloists and musicians in other leading roles - such as the orchestra's two oboe players - should perhaps make more money. Maybe it's an interesting legal question but musically, it's very clear to everyone, Bonitz said. The case is scheduled to go before a labour judge later this year. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University michael at ecst.csuchico.edu Chico, CA 95929 530-898-5321 fax 530-898-5901
Re: Al Franken on love
On Friday, March 26, 2004 at 07:00:34 (-0800) Devine, James writes: is he going to run for the Senate from Minnesota? He said he was thinking about it, but not until 2008, perhaps?? He said he had a radio show to do first. Bright guy. I think his lack of criticism of Kerry is lame, as is his assault on Nader, but he's got some very good stuff. Bill
Re: More on the labor theory of value
some of my best friends are Philistines. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -Original Message- From: Shane Mage [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 7:36 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PEN-L] More on the labor theory of value JD wrote: Wagner's music is better than it sounds. -- Mark Twain (paraphrased). Mark Twain was making a perceptive comment on contemporary American standards of musical performance, not a philistine denegration of one of the greatest composers ever. Shane Mage When we read on a printed page the doctrine of Pythagoras that all things are made of numbers, it seems mystical, mystifying, even downright silly. When we read on a computer screen the doctrine of Pythagoras that all things are made of numbers, it seems self-evidently true. (N. Weiner)
PK on HMOs
[A pretty good column...] March 26, 2004/New York TIMES OP-ED COLUMNIST The Medicare Muddle By PAUL KRUGMAN In advance of Tuesday's reports by the Social Security and Medicare trustees, some credulous journalists wrote stories based on tips from advocates of Social Security privatization, who claimed that the report would offer a radically downgraded vision of the system's future. False alarm: projections for Social Security are about the same as last year. Projections for Medicare, however, have worsened: last year the trustees predicted that the hospital insurance trust fund would last until 2026, and now they've moved it back to 2019. How should we react to this news? It has become standard practice among privatizers to talk as if there is some program called Socialsecurityandmedicare. They hope to use scary numbers about future medical costs to panic us into abandoning a retirement program that's actually in pretty good shape. But the deteriorated outlook for Medicare says nothing, one way or another, about either the sustainability of Social Security (no problem) or the desirability of private retirement accounts (a lousy idea.) Even on Medicare, don't panic. It's not like a private health plan that will go belly up when it runs out of money; it's just a government program, albeit one supported by a dedicated tax. Nobody thinks America's highways will be doomed if the gasoline tax, which currently pays for highway maintenance, falls short of the system's needs - if politicians want to sustain the system, they will. The same is true of Medicare. Rising medical costs are a very big budget issue, but 2019 isn't a drop-dead date. The trustees' report does, however, give one more reason to hate the prescription drug bill the administration rammed through Congress last year. If deception, intimidation, abuse of power and giveaways to drug companies aren't enough, it turns out that the bill also squanders taxpayer money on H.M.O.'s. A little background: conservatives have never mounted an attack on Medicare as systematic as their effort to bully the public into privatizing Social Security. They do, however, often talk about Medicare reform. What this amounts to, in practice, is a drive to replace the traditional system, in which Medicare pays doctors and hospitals directly, with a system in which Medicare subcontracts that role to private H.M.O.'s. In 1997 Congress tried to take a big step in that direction, requiring Medicare to pay per-person fees to private health plans that accepted Medicare recipients. There was much talk about the magic of the marketplace: private plans, so the theory went, would be far more efficient than government bureaucrats, offering better health care at lower cost. What actually happened was that private plans skimmed the cream, accepting only relatively healthy retirees. Yet Medicare paid them slightly more per retiree than it spent on traditional benefits. In other words, instead of saving money by subcontracting its role to private plans, Medicare was in effect required to pay H.M.O.'s a hefty subsidy. The only thing that kept this reform from being a fiscal disaster was the fact that after an initial rush into the Medicare business, many H.M.O.'s pulled out again. It turns out that private plans are much less efficient than the government at providing health insurance because they have much higher overhead. Even with a heavy subsidy, they can't compete with traditional Medicare. There's a lesson in this experience. Sometimes there's no magic in the free market - in fact, it can be a hindrance. Health insurance is one place where government agencies consistently do a better job than private companies. I'll have more to say about this when I write about the general issue of health care reform (soon, I promise!). But whether because of ideology or because of H.M.O. campaign contributions, the people now running the country refuse to learn that lesson. As part of last year's prescription drug bill, they tried again, offering an even bigger subsidy to private plans. And that turns out to be an important reason for the deterioration in Medicare's prospects: of the seven years lopped off the life of the trust fund, two are the result of increased subsidies mandated by last year's law, mainly in the form of higher payments to H.M.O.'s. So what did we learn this week? Social Security is in decent shape. Medicare has problems, but ill-conceived reform has only made those problems worse. And let's rip up that awful prescription drug bill and start over. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
Milan Rai on UN occupation of Iraq
On Znet you can find an article by Milan Rai (author of a worthwhile study of Noam Chomsky) that argues that the antiwar movement should not call for immediate withdrawal. Why? Because, according to recent polls, the Iraqis--no matter how much they are fed up with the occupation--are afraid of the anarchy that would ensue if the USA pulled out. He writes: But, as we pointed out in JNV Briefing 50, there is a great deal of ambivalence in the Iraqi attitude to the US/UK forces. The vast majority of the Iraqi people do not want immediate withdrawal. Asked how long the occupation forces should stay, Iraqis gave these responses: 'leave now' (15.1%); 'a few months' (8.3%); 'six months to a year' (6.1%); 'more than one year' (4.3%). 18.3% said 'They should remain until security is restored'. The bulk of people, however, said, 'They should remain until an Iraqi government is in place' (35.8%). (Only 1.5% said, 'They should never leave', and 10.6% didn't know.) Although I don't have the statistics at my fingertips, and I am not sure whether it is necessary to provide them, I am quite sure that Western polltakers found support for the US occupation of Vietnam all through the Vietnam war. Since the North Vietnamese and the NLF were not permitted to disseminate their views on what a united Vietnam would look like, it would naturally skew poll results. The same situation exists in Iraq. The resistance not ony has absolutely no freedom to present its ideas about how Iraq would look after US troop withdrawal, it is subject to demonization from the quisling government and the media it tolerates. Except for sermons in the mosques, arguments for removal of US troops cannot be heard. If Iraq was a free society, you'd have debates on the evening television between opposition politicians and those favoring continuing occupation. This in fact is the main complaint that the USA had about Aristide and Milosevic, and still has about Chavez and Castro. Until there is a level playing field in Iraq, it seems rather pointless to pay attention to Western pollsters. Beyond that, there is a *political* problem involved with support of occupation, even under UN auspices. I am not quite sure what Rai's politics are, but speaking as a socialist it seems obligatory to support self-determination. The United Nations is not some kind of neutral body. It has acted consistently in the 20th century to deny self-determination to the Koreans, the Congolese, the Yugoslavs and others. Even if you disregard this principle, you still have to contend with the character of the post-USSR UN, which is run by a Security Council that either defers to the USA or supports it outright. Rai says, Therefore, if the anti-war movement is to pay heed to the expressed wishes of the Iraqi people (as determined in several polls), we should abandon the demand for 'troops out now' and call instead for the rapid replacement of US/UK occupation forces, and the withdrawal of US/UK political and economic 'advisers'. As the Iraq quagmire deepens, the same debate that took place during the early days of the Vietnam war will take place again in all likelihood. Forces such as SANE/Freeze, AFL-CIO progressives and Democratic Party doves all argued for a phased withdrawal from Vietnam. Slogans and perspectives such as peace now, let the UN solve the problem, negotiations now, etc. were put forward as slogans for the antiwar movement, which consistently chose immediate withdrawal. It is singularly depressing to see a website so connected to Noam Chomsky putting forward a perspective that he himself rejected back in the 1960s. -- The Marxism list: www.marxmail.org
Re: More on the labor theory of value
some of my best friends are Philistines. Not all Philistines are philistines. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -Original Message- From: Shane Mage [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 7:36 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PEN-L] More on the labor theory of value JD wrote: Wagner's music is better than it sounds. -- Mark Twain (paraphrased). Mark Twain was making a perceptive comment on contemporary American standards of musical performance, not a philistine denegration of one of the greatest composers ever. Shane Mage When we read on a printed page the doctrine of Pythagoras that all things are made of numbers, it seems mystical, mystifying, even downright silly. When we read on a computer screen the doctrine of Pythagoras that all things are made of numbers, it seems self-evidently true. (N. Weiner)
Oregon County Bans All Marriage
* Last Updated: Wednesday, 24 March, 2004, 16:17 GMT Oregon county bans all marriages Confused by the twists and turns of the US gay marriage issue, Oregon's Benton County has decided to err on the side of caution and ban all weddings. Until the state decides who can and cannot wed, officials in the county have said no-one can marry - even heterosexual couples. They hit upon the plan to ensure that none of the county's 79,000 residents are subject to unfair treatment. Gay marriage has proved controversial, deeply dividing US public opinion. Lawsuit threat The last Benton County marriage licences were issued on Tuesday and, from now on, any locals wanting to get hitched will have to go elsewhere. It may seem odd, but we need to treat everyone in our county equally, county commissioner Linda Modrell told Reuters. The county had initially decided to start issuing marriage licenses to gay couples from Monday, but they reversed that decision in the face of a flurry of lawsuits across the US relating to the issue. It is unlikely any wedding planners will be going bankrupt over the decision however, as the country only issues about 20 marriage licenses a week, and it is just a short drive over the county line for couples eager to tie the knot. Last bastion of support The decision has found favour with pro-gay marriage activists who argue that at least it sends a clear message that everyone is entitled to equal rights: It is certainly a different way for county commissioners to respect their constitutional obligation to apply the law equally to everyone, said Rebekah Kassell, a spokeswoman for Basic Rights Oregon. We appreciate that they are willing to say they are not going to participate in discrimination. Gay marriage supporters But anti-gay marriage campaigners are not impressed: We are happy Benton County is not going to violate the law by issuing illegal marriage licenses, but we are perplexed as to why they would not issue legal licenses, said Tim Nashif, spokesman for the Defense of Marriage Coalition. Oregon not only has the only county in the nation issuing illegal (same-sex) marriage licenses, we probably have the only county in the nation refusing to issue marriage licenses at all. Oregon's most populous county, Multnomah County, is the only jurisdiction in the US that is still issuing licenses for same-sex marriages, handing out 2,550 licenses since 3 March. Local governments from California to New York have stopped issuing gay marriage licenses after being hit with a spate of law suits and protests. The issue has prompted President George W Bush to call for a constitutional amendment defining marriage in traditional terms. Marriage between a man and a woman is the ideal, Mr Bush has said. And the job of the president is to drive policy toward the ideal. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3564893.stm * -- Yoshie * Bring Them Home Now! http://www.bringthemhomenow.org/ * Calendars of Events in Columbus: http://sif.org.ohio-state.edu/calendar.html, http://www.freepress.org/calendar.php, http://www.cpanews.org/ * Student International Forum: http://sif.org.ohio-state.edu/ * Committee for Justice in Palestine: http://www.osudivest.org/ * Al-Awda-Ohio: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Al-Awda-Ohio * Solidarity: http://www.solidarity-us.org/
Re: More on the labor theory of value
In a way, the violinists' demands are not as strange as they seem. Richard Biernacki has argued that the Germans and the British had a different conception of labor -- the Germans historically measured labor by something like Marx's labor power; the British, by the value produced by labor. For example, in German publishers paid authors by the number of pages they produced rather than by the sales of the books. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: More on the labor theory of value
in German[y] publishers paid authors by the number of pages they produced rather than by the sales of the books. that would explain the verbose style of German authors? but wasn't Dickens paid by the word? Jim D.
Re: More on the labor theory of value
I don't know about Dickens, but yes, even Marx complained about having to make his book long for the damn German publisher. On Fri, Mar 26, 2004 at 09:10:13AM -0800, Devine, James wrote: that would explain the verbose style of German authors? but wasn't Dickens paid by the word? Jim D. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Government aid for US mortgages
One nice primer I have found regarding the Fannie Mae Freddie Mac operations http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=13sequence=2 -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Shifting genres in media/pop culture and the shifting SSA of Monopoly Capitalism/Imperialism
Title: Message Does anyone know of work being done to analyze emergences/passings/dominance of various genres in media/"pop culture" (content, scope, impacts, sponsors, target demographics, revenues, linkages, methods of competitionetc) and the shifting SSA and SSA requirements of Monopoly Capitalism/Imperialism? For example, I find this "criminal forensics genre" interesting.Starting with "Quincy" in the early 1980s and up to the present CSI, CSI Miami, Cold Case, Crossing Jordan, Law and Order Criminal Intent, NCIS, etcwe see the message of the omnipotence and omniscience of "bourgeois science" in the hands of the bourgeois state. One little hair, twenty years later, can get you busted for a crime committed twenty years prior--or released from prison for a crime you did not commit. Just the "facts" and the "science" will ultimately drive the law and justice system and will ultimately win out with sufficient patience and faith in the system--the systemcan and will work. Those in the system are professionals driven by curiosity, a passion for justice and superb technical skills using state-of-the-art technology. These shows compete against each other and for expanded audiences by getting more and moregraphic in the gruesome details of autopsies and forensicsand by linking actual cases in the news with story lines (Quincy never showed an actual body being cut open, now these showsgo in exquisite graphic detail). And for those who dare to commit crimes--or oppose the system--omnipotent and omniscient technology in the hands of the bourgeois state (represented by nice guys and women who are just like us with all their own peculiarities and vulnerabilities). In the case of the "Reality shows", they are relatively cheap to produce, focus on trappings of wealth (temporary) like being set in exotic locales and big mansions, and of course utilize, celebrate, preach, rewardand reinforce: rat-race individualism, greed, selfishness, intrigue, betrayal, egoism, narcissism, racism, sexism, homophobia, social darwinism, hard-body youth, phony patriotism, Machiavellianism, cut-throat competition, situational ethics, get-rich-quick, fear, national chauvinism, "civilization" versus "primitivism", crass materialism, predatory calculations of cost/benefit, etc etc. Thanks, Jim C. James M. Craven Blackfoot Name: Omahkohkiaayo-i'poyi Professor/Consultant,Economics;Business Division Chair Clark College, 1800 E. McLoughlin Blvd. Vancouver, WA. USA 98663 Tel: (360) 992-2283; Fax: (360) 992-2863 http://www.home.earthlink.net/~blkfoot5 Employer has no association with private/protected opinion "Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." (George Orwell) "...every anticipation of results which are first to be proved seems disturbing to me...(Karl Marx, "Grundrisse") FREE LEONARD PELTIER!!
Re: More on LNG
Michael, The trade says that LNG imports make sense if the domestic price of gas is around $5.00 mcf. It has been above that level for a year or so, after trading normally from $2.50 to 3.50 in recent years. Gene Coyle Michael Perelman wrote: I had my realized before your last message that so much was being imported. How expensive is the liquefaction and then transportation of the natural gas? -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: More on the labor theory of value
But Michael, number of pages produced is a measure of labor performed, not labor power. And in Marxian terms, the value produced by labor is to some extent redundant, since to Marx labor *is* the substance of value, no? It would be more accurate to say on the basis of your example that the British paid by, ahem, the value marginal product of the author's labor. But Dickens was indeed paid by the word, since his stories were serialized. In much the same way, Samuel Clemens was in effect paid by the page, since his books were sold by subscription, and the book price increased with its length. Which explains why a lot of his books --A Tramp Abroad, e.g.--benefit from significant editing. Gil In a way, the violinists' demands are not as strange as they seem. Richard Biernacki has argued that the Germans and the British had a different conception of labor -- the Germans historically measured labor by something like Marx's labor power; the British, by the value produced by labor. For example, in German publishers paid authors by the number of pages they produced rather than by the sales of the books. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Milan Rai on UN occupation of Iraq
Lou wrote; Until there is a level playing field in Iraq, it seems rather pointless to pay attention to Western pollsters. It's mind-boggling for leftists such as Milan Rai to suggest that Western pollsters, whose governments are belligerent occupiers in Iraq, could get honest answers from the Iraqis whom they survey in the occupied territory. How would the Iraqis know if the pollsters weren't informers? -- Yoshie * Bring Them Home Now! http://www.bringthemhomenow.org/ * Calendars of Events in Columbus: http://sif.org.ohio-state.edu/calendar.html, http://www.freepress.org/calendar.php, http://www.cpanews.org/ * Student International Forum: http://sif.org.ohio-state.edu/ * Committee for Justice in Palestine: http://www.osudivest.org/ * Al-Awda-Ohio: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Al-Awda-Ohio * Solidarity: http://www.solidarity-us.org/
Re: Milan Rai on UN occupation of Iraq
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote: It's mind-boggling for leftists such as Milan Rai to suggest that Western pollsters, whose governments are belligerent occupiers in Iraq, could get honest answers from the Iraqis whom they survey in the occupied territory. How would the Iraqis know if the pollsters weren't informers? I interviewed Gallup's director of international programs, Richard Burkholder, who supervised their poll in Baghdad. He said that the surveyors were Iraqis and it was never revealed that the sponsor of the poll was an American firm. He also said that many interviewees kept talking beyond the 60-minute scheduled duration of the interview, and tried to get the surveyors to talk to friends and relatives. He attributed their enthusiasm to the fact that no one had asked their opinion on anything of significance in decades, maybe ever. Burkholder struck me as a serious social scientist who wanted to get things right. Listen and judge for yourself: http://www.leftbusinessobserver.com/Radio.html. Scroll down to November 6, 2003. I realize that the polls say things that a lot of leftists, who already know what Iraqis think or should think, don't want to hear. But Christian Parenti, who's spent five or six weeks in Iraq reporting there, said the results comported with his impressions of the place. To which I can already imagine the retort that Christian's gotten a Soros grant, so is now a tool of the empire. Doug
Re: Milan Rai on UN occupation of Iraq
Actually, there is historical evidence that during the Ottoman period a primitive technique of poll taking was developed and used in certain Sancaks, including in the region what we nowaday call Iraq. Doug Henwood wrote: He attributed their enthusiasm to the fact that no one had asked their opinion on anything of significance in decades, maybe ever. -- E. Ahmet Tonak Simons Rock College of Bard Great Barrington, MA 01230 Phone: 413-528 7488 Homepage: www.simons-rock.edu/~eatonak
The Newdow case
Ellen Goodman in todays San Francisco Chronicle says that atheist Michael Newdows constitutional challenge to the American Pledge of Allegiance may be nettlesome, but raises important questions of principle. Newdow, an emergency room doctor with a law degree, was allowed to argue his own case before the Supreme Court that the reference in the pledge to one nation under God violates the constitutional separation of church and state. Newton had earlier won his point in a California lower court, and was defending it on appeal. The Supreme Court ruling is expected in June. Goodman notes that 90% of Americans support the pledge, and, as another Chronicle report indicates, Newdow has some of the eccentric traits associated with crusading atheists. Who needs this in the middle of an election? Why stir up the culture wars? Why make such a big deal of two little words? Aren't there bigger fish to fry?, writes Goodman. Here's the problem, she adds, Newdow is right. So unfortunately is author Susan Jacoby commenting in the article on the powerful connection between religion and patriotism in American life. Articles available on www.supportingfacts.com Sorry for any cross posting.
Re: Milan Rai on UN occupation of Iraq
At 2:27 PM -0500 3/26/04, Doug Henwood wrote: It's mind-boggling for leftists such as Milan Rai to suggest that Western pollsters, whose governments are belligerent occupiers in Iraq, could get honest answers from the Iraqis whom they survey in the occupied territory. How would the Iraqis know if the pollsters weren't informers? I interviewed Gallup's director of international programs, Richard Burkholder, who supervised their poll in Baghdad. He said that the surveyors were Iraqis and it was never revealed that the sponsor of the poll was an American firm. That gives thinking Iraqi men and women -- especially those who are involved in the armed and unarmed resistance in some fashion -- a good reason to suspect that the Iraqi surveyors are informers working for Americans. That's Self Defense 101. Are the current occupiers in Iraq the first belligerent occupier in history to poll the occupied in the hope of having the world accept the polling results as a justification for the occupation? -- Yoshie * Bring Them Home Now! http://www.bringthemhomenow.org/ * Calendars of Events in Columbus: http://sif.org.ohio-state.edu/calendar.html, http://www.freepress.org/calendar.php, http://www.cpanews.org/ * Student International Forum: http://sif.org.ohio-state.edu/ * Committee for Justice in Palestine: http://www.osudivest.org/ * Al-Awda-Ohio: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Al-Awda-Ohio * Solidarity: http://www.solidarity-us.org/
Re: Shifting genres in media/pop culture and the shifting SSA of Monopoly Capitalism/Imperialism
With the cowboys, the railroad people, bankers, and owners of large estates were often the bad guys. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Milan Rai on UN occupation of Iraq
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote: Are the current occupiers in Iraq the first belligerent occupier in history to poll the occupied in the hope of having the world accept the polling results as a justification for the occupation? Did you actually read the results of the Gallup Poll? The opinions were very mixed - gratitude for being free of Saddam combined with deep suspicions of U.S. motives, significant support (though a minority) for attacks on U.S. forces, anxiety over any withdrawal of troops combined with very negative views of Bush and Blair, a desire for some kind of democratic self-rule, an eagerness to return to more traditional gender roles, etc. Doug
Re: More on the labor theory of value
Gil writes: But Michael, number of pages produced is a measure of labor performed, not labor power. I was going to say something similar, but held off, since Michael doesn't seem to like discussions of Marxian value theory. Note that number of pages produced isn't a very good measure of labor performed, because it doesn't measure the expenditure of brains brawn (labor-power) well. Among other things, it misses the quality dimension. (And my student know how to produce a 5 page paper by changing the margins or the font size!) And in Marxian terms, the value produced by labor is to some extent redundant, since to Marx labor *is* the substance of value, no? it's not completely redundant (as Gil notes, by using the phrase to some extent). Similar amounts of concrete labor-time may produce different amounts of abstract labor (because of differences of skill or effort). Similar amounts of concrete labor-time may also produce different amounts of abstract labor (i.e., value) because society attaches different values to the use-values produced by expending brains and brawn. It would be more accurate to say on the basis of your example that the British paid by, ahem, the value marginal product of the author's labor. It's only the value of the marginal product if the product market is perfectly competitive. Or maybe you mean the extra value produced per extra labor input (i.e., there's no typo). But piece rates only pay for extra use-values produced, not the extra value produced. In any event, the workers in question are being paid piece rates, something quite familiar to Marx and many others. It's a management scheme, aimed at increasing the intensity of labor, which may or may not work very well. (It partly depends on one's perspective: paying salespeople with commissions may work well for managers, but it produces obnoxious salespeople. But it also may create the wrong incentives from management's point of view.) As Marx discusses in volume I, chapter 21, of CAPITAL, piece rates don't abolish class domination and instead typically intensifies it. Jim D.
Re: Shifting genres in media/pop culture and the shifting SSA of Monopoly Capitalism/Imperialism
With the cowboys, the railroad people, bankers, and owners of large estates were often the bad guys. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu Very perceptive. You can of course add us savage Indians who lacked refinement and appreciation of the wonders of private property along with the wonders of technology and religion that the settlers--and some cowboys--tried to bring to us to deliver us from our primitiveness and savagery. ;-) Jim C.
Re: Shifting genres in media/pop culture and the shifting SSA of Monopoly Capitalism/Imperialism
Maybe Michael Hoover or Yoshie can help us out, but I think that the morality police during the 30s pressured Hollywood not to show class conflict. Michael, a distant relative of the Warner Bros, both of whose grandfathers along with many others in town, were offered a $50 partnership, and whose one grandfather asked who would pay a nickle to see goddamn shadows on a wall. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: More on the labor theory of value
Regarding your first point, authors according to Biernacki, were paid by the page. Goethe was upset that he was paid identically with the creator of some trash. The only way to win an economic advantage was to produce more pages per hour. Perhaps, this can lead to the creation of Internet communication. Devine, James wrote: I was going to say something similar, but held off, since Michael doesn't seem to like discussions of Marxian value theory. Note that number of pages produced isn't a very good measure of labor performed, because it doesn't measure the expenditure of brains brawn (labor-power) well. Among other things, it misses the quality dimension. (And my student know how to produce a 5 page paper by changing the margins or the font size!) -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University michael at ecst.csuchico.edu Chico, CA 95929 530-898-5321 fax 530-898-5901
Re: Walmart
[UFCW organizing leader Mike] Leonard says his dpartment receives approximately 100 web-generated messages daily from Wal-Mart workers ... that organizers turn into contacts. (Labor Notes, April 2004, p. 7) Date:Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:56:43 -0800 From:Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Walmart This last weekend I participated in a forum on Wal-Mart. A large number of Wal-Mart workers showed up to vigorously defend their employer. They were obviously working-class people and not professional spokesman. Several mentioned their salaries. I responded that given their obvious intelligence, they deserved a far better income. Their answer was that Wal-Mart was the only job that they could find. Is the Chico behavior that common -- that Wal-Mart confined a retinue of such devoted workers who would volunteer a Sunday afternoon to defend their employer? Charles Andrews http://www.laborrepublic.org
Re: Milan Rai on UN occupation of Iraq
Some folks sititng in university offices in the United States often will attribute to those in other parts of the world who aren't saying what they want them to say (or can't really hear what they are syaing) the quality of being a tool. It is pretty clear from Iraqi sources apart from this poll or US media (etc.) that indeed Iraqis are worried about the likelihood of civil strife and war upon withdrawal of troops. The Bush administration is using this concern to try to perpetuate his military (and political and economic) influence on the course of events. Most Iraqis of a democratic perpsuasion would prefer the presence of UN peacekeepers for the maintenance of security. Ahmed Chalabi, Bush's point man in the IGC, has tried to deny this and say that Iraqis don't want or need a UN presence, but he and his cronies, of course, have no ties or base within Iraq. I think it might be a good idea to support the UN demand. It might also be a good idea to support Iraq's growing trade union movement: http://www.iraqitradeunions.org/ _ Find a broadband plan that fits. Great local deals on high-speed Internet access. https://broadband.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/
Re: Milan Rai on UN occupation of Iraq
Joel wrote: Some folks sititng in university offices in the United States often will attribute to those in other parts of the world who aren't saying what they want them to say (or can't really hear what they are syaing) the quality of being a tool. I am at a university, but I occupy a cubicle rather than an office--more like Dilbert's than the one that Gayatri Spivak has. Most Iraqis of a democratic perpsuasion would prefer the presence of UN peacekeepers for the maintenance of security. Ahmed Chalabi, Bush's point man in the IGC, has tried to deny this and say that Iraqis don't want or need a UN presence, but he and his cronies, of course, have no ties or base within Iraq. This is fundamentally a tactical disagreement. The Kerry campaign, old Europe, et al want a multilateral imperialist occupation. To give you an idea of what kind of machinations are possible, the newly elected socialist President of Spain has worked out a deal that the Spanish troops withdrawn from Iraq will be sent to Afghanistan to show that they are serious about fighting terrorism in line with Richard Clarke's compaints. Supposedly this will go over better with Spanish voters since this kind of occupation has the blessing of the UN and old Europe. I think it might be a good idea to support the UN demand. Just out of curiosity, is the CPUSA in solidarity with the CP of Iraq that sits on the quisling Governing Council next to Chalabi? It might also be a good idea to support Iraq's growing trade union movement: http://www.iraqitradeunions.org/ This is from Mahmood Ketabchi, a Marxmail subscriber and sympathizer of the Workers Communist Party of Iraq. It refers to the IFTU, whose website Joel urges us to visit above. From: Mahmood ketabchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 On January 27, the US puppet Iraqi Governing Council has appointed or rather hand picked a union, the Iraqi Federation of Trade Union (IFTU) as the legitimate representative of Iraqi workers. IFTU is associated with the Iraqi Communist Party whose leader was chosen by the occupation authority to serve on the the Iraqi Governing council with the primary function to justify the bloody occupation of Iraq. The Federation of Workers' Council and Unions in Iraq has issued a statement condemning this decision. Please read the statement bellow: * Statement of the Federation of Workers' Councils and Unions in Iraq on the Governing Council's Resolution that Appoints Representatives for the Iraqi Workers On January 27, 2004, the Governing Council passed its resolution number 3, which appoints an organization as the official representative of the Iraqi workers inside the country and internationally. This organization consists of the representatives of the parties grouped in the Governing Council. The Resolution 3 is a continuation of the Baathist tradition which appointed trade unions through orders and from above. This resolution contradicts all international conventions, resolutions, and agreements which stress that establishing trade unions and labour organizations is the affair of workers themselves and that workers should elect their representatives freely from among their ranks. We, in the FWCUI, believe that the Governing Council has no right to pass any resolution preventing workers from electing their representatives. Therefore, we totally reject this resolution and regard it as an attempt to enforce the practices of the ousted Baath regime which denied workers any control over their own affairs and erected bureaucratic and repressive bodies which had nothing to do with the interests of workers. The resolution number 3 is a part of the attempts by the state apparatus to control workers despite all rhetoric about freedom. The Federation of Workers' Councils and Unions in Iraq calls for a general conference, which embraces all labour activists in Iraq. The FWCUI also calls on the international labour organizations to attend this conference. Genuine and influential labour organizations, which represent workers, can only be established when workers themselves freely elect their own representatives. Federation of Workers' Councils and Unions in Iraq February 19, 2004 Louis Proyect Marxism list: www.marxmail.org
Re: Milan Rai on UN occupation of Iraq
The occupation is a situation with no good options at all. For the US to stay, for the US to pack up and leave immediately, or for the United Nations to come in all have negative consequences. In addition, a discussion like this necessarily involves several different measures that various participants will apply? What will the choice mean for imperialism as a whole, the US political future, the Iraqi people In short, there are no good answers and certainly no clean answers. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Milan Rai on UN occupation of Iraq
Some folks sititng in university offices in the United States often will attribute to those in other parts of the world who aren't saying what they want them to say (or can't really hear what they are syaing) the quality of being a tool. On the other hand, people do often reply to polls by saying what they feel they ought to say. I remember that (years ago), I wandered around my (middle class/upper blue-collar working class) neighborhood in Illinois asking people to sign a petition against the war (or, more specifically, against the extension of the Vietnam war into Cambodia). Two things were notable: (1) some people were _afraid_ to sign the petition, even in the land of the free, home of the brave. This seems to have been a hangover from the McCarthy era. I'd bet that the hangover from the Saddam era is stronger, especially if people in Iraq are conscious of the fact that the US used to be an ally of Saddam's. (Have you seen the picture and movie of Rumsfeld shaking Saddam's hand?) (2) if I asked people what they thought, most of them were vaguely against the war but supportive of their president, but if I asked them what _people in general_ were thinking, the perceived anti-war feeling was stronger. My guess was that a lot of people were more against the war than they said they were and attributed their true feelings to others. If I were a pollster, I'd value this kind of info. It is pretty clear from Iraqi sources apart from this poll or US media (etc.) that indeed Iraqis are worried about the likelihood of civil strife and war upon withdrawal of troops. The Bush administration is using this concern to try to perpetuate his military (and political and economic) influence on the course of events. there was an opinion piece in the GUARDIAN [U.K.] arguing that the Bushies are exploiting terrorist attacks to cow the opposition. ... It might also be a good idea to support Iraq's growing trade union movement: http://www.iraqitradeunions.org/ good idea, especially since Proconsul Bremer decided to keep Saddam's old anti-labor law. Jim D.
Re: Milan Rai on UN occupation of Iraq
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote: Are the current occupiers in Iraq the first belligerent occupier in history to poll the occupied in the hope of having the world accept the polling results as a justification for the occupation? Did you actually read the results of the Gallup Poll? The opinions were very mixed - gratitude for being free of Saddam combined with deep suspicions of U.S. motives, significant support (though a minority) for attacks on U.S. forces, anxiety over any withdrawal of troops combined with very negative views of Bush and Blair, a desire for some kind of democratic self-rule, an eagerness to return to more traditional gender roles, etc. Doug Sure, but if I were an Iraqi in Iraq right now, I would not reveal what I really think to any Iraqi surveyor working for an American firm or even an Iraqi firm -- I would say what I think would be safe to say, rather than blurt out something that may bring extra surveillance (and possibly even danger of arrest and interrogation) to me, my family, and my friends. It's absurd to think that the occupied can freely say what they believe if they suspect that they have a good chance of talking to an informer. -- Yoshie * Bring Them Home Now! http://www.bringthemhomenow.org/ * Calendars of Events in Columbus: http://sif.org.ohio-state.edu/calendar.html, http://www.freepress.org/calendar.php, http://www.cpanews.org/ * Student International Forum: http://sif.org.ohio-state.edu/ * Committee for Justice in Palestine: http://www.osudivest.org/ * Al-Awda-Ohio: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Al-Awda-Ohio * Solidarity: http://www.solidarity-us.org/
Re: Milan Rai on UN occupation of Iraq
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote: It's absurd to think that the occupied can freely say what they believe if they suspect that they have a good chance of talking to an informer. Then why did nearly 20% say that it was ok to attack U.S. troops? Why did something like 50% say they had unfavorable opinions of Blair Bush? I ask again, have you actually read any of the poll results? Doug
Milan Rai on UN occupation of Iraq
At 4:07 PM -0800 3/26/04, Devine, James wrote: people do often reply to polls by saying what they feel they ought to say. They often do even under normal circumstances in the United States (e.g., Americans overstate their church attendance). Doug and Joel ought to remember that Iraq is *under foreign military occupation conducting counterinsurgency warfare* with censorship, checkpoints, house raids, arbitrary arrest and detention, no due process, etc. -- i.e. Iraqis do not have freedom of speech. As Alex Gourevitch reminds the reader, In June [2003], Bremer issued a nine-point list of 'prohibited activity' that included incitement to violence, support for the Baath Party, and publishing material that is patently false and calculated to promote opposition to the occupying authority (Exporting Censorship to Iraq, October 1, 2003, http://www.prospect.org/print/V14/9/gourevitch-a.html). The CPA have attacked critical journalists and closed down hostile publications in Iraq. It is ridiculous to imagine that Iraqis under such conditions can freely say to surveyors who may very well be informers that they oppose the occupying authority, much less support any resistance to it (talking to pollsters is even less safe than talking to journalists). Only the most daring or the most foolhardy would. -- Yoshie * Bring Them Home Now! http://www.bringthemhomenow.org/ * Calendars of Events in Columbus: http://sif.org.ohio-state.edu/calendar.html, http://www.freepress.org/calendar.php, http://www.cpanews.org/ * Student International Forum: http://sif.org.ohio-state.edu/ * Committee for Justice in Palestine: http://www.osudivest.org/ * Al-Awda-Ohio: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Al-Awda-Ohio * Solidarity: http://www.solidarity-us.org/
wto gambling decision goes against US
This is a very interesting story. The US wants to justify its position on moral grounds, which supposedly trump trade rules. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/26/technology/26gamble.html -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University michael at ecst.csuchico.edu Chico, CA 95929 530-898-5321 fax 530-898-5901
Re: Milan Rai on UN occupation of Iraq
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote: It's absurd to think that the occupied can freely say what they believe if they suspect that they have a good chance of talking to an informer. Then why did nearly 20% say that it was ok to attack U.S. troops? Why did something like 50% say they had unfavorable opinions of Blair Bush? I ask again, have you actually read any of the poll results? Doug To my knowledge, it's not yet illegal to have unfavorable opinions of Blair Bush. To make one comparison, Palestinian citizens of Israel are free to have unfavorable opinions of Sharon and Bush, but they can't freely make remarks that the state of Israel may interpret as prohibited activities -- take the case of Azmi Bishara, for instance, who was accused of having: * a. Verbally published words of praise, sympathy, and encouragement for acts of violence that are liable to cause the death or injury of a person. b. Verbally published words of praise, sympathy and a call to assist and support a terrorist organization. c. Performed in public an act that contains a revelation of identification with a terrorist organization or sympathy towards it. http://www.azmibishara.info/indictments/politicalspeeches.pdf * As for 20% of Iraqis who say that it's OK to attack US troops, I suppose that 20% of Iraqis are very courageous or foolhardy or both, just as a good number of daring Iraqis have held street demonstrations against the occupation even though some of them have been shot by occupying soldiers and a smaller number of them have taken up arms against them, an activity that is even more dangerous to themselves and their loved ones. -- Yoshie * Bring Them Home Now! http://www.bringthemhomenow.org/ * Calendars of Events in Columbus: http://sif.org.ohio-state.edu/calendar.html, http://www.freepress.org/calendar.php, http://www.cpanews.org/ * Student International Forum: http://sif.org.ohio-state.edu/ * Committee for Justice in Palestine: http://www.osudivest.org/ * Al-Awda-Ohio: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Al-Awda-Ohio * Solidarity: http://www.solidarity-us.org/
Re: PK on HMOs
[A pretty good column...] And one more sizeable step in his suprisingly swift evolution away from mainstream economic thinking and towards common sense: There's a lesson in this experience. Sometimes there's no magic in the free market - in fact, it can be a hindrance. Health insurance is one place where government agencies consistently do a better job than private companies. I'll have more to say about this when I write about the general issue of health care reform (soon, I promise!). Michael
Re: Milan Rai on UN occupation of Iraq
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote: Doug and Joel ought to remember that Iraq is *under foreign military occupation conducting counterinsurgency warfare* with censorship, checkpoints, house raids, arbitrary arrest and detention, no due process, etc. -- i.e. Iraqis do not have freedom of speech. Since you clearly don't want to read the actual poll, let me supply some highlights for you. These results don't sound like they're coming from people too terrified to speak their minds. Doug Only one in four Baghdad residents (26%) told Gallup they would prefer coalition forces to leave immediately -- say, in the next few months. Seven in 10 (72%) said U.S. and British troops should stay in Iraq for a longer period of time. Furthermore, a substantial 85% of Baghdad's residents said they agree with the assertion that some people believe if the U.S. were to pull out its troops any time soon, Iraq will fall into anarchy. Just 11% said they disagree with this assessment. While opinions differ as to which specific groups are behind attacks on U.S. troops and what their motives are, a majority of Baghdad's residents -- 64% -- view them as either somewhat (22%) or completely (42%) unjustifiable. That said, a significant minority of Baghdad's residents are unwilling to condemn attacks against U.S. troops, at least under certain circumstances. Seventeen percent said that the current attacks on U.S. forces are sometimes justified, and sometimes not justified. Of greater concern is the fact that nearly one in five Baghdadis (19%) view the ongoing attacks as either somewhat (11%) or completely (8%) justifiable. --- Although 62% of Baghdad residents who participated in Gallup's landmark poll of that city said ousting Saddam Hussein was worth any personal hardships they have endured since the invasion, most are deeply skeptical of the initial rationale the coalition has given for its action. The 2003 Gallup Poll of Baghdad asked respondents to describe, in their own words, why they think the United States and Great Britain invaded Iraq. Just 4% of Baghdad's residents said they believe it was done to eliminate weapons of mass destruction -- the principal justification given at the time. Slightly more than 4 in 10 (43%) said the invasion's principal objective was Iraq's oil reserves, while nearly as many (37%) see the invasion as motivated primarily by a desire to topple Hussein's regime. In addition to oil, others mentioned the country's oil-derived wealth (11%) and its non-petroleum mineral deposits (7%) as motives for the coalition's military action. Some Baghdadis also cited strategic considerations: 14% said the action was intended to colonize and occupy a portion of the Middle East, and 6% said the motivation was a desire to change the map of the Middle East in a way more attuned to U.S. and Israeli interests. Just 5% of Baghdadis said the invasion's principal motivation was to assist the Iraqi people, while 15% said the coalition invaded to benefit the people of the United States. Only 1% believe that a desire to establish democracy was the main reason for last spring's assault. Approximately half (52%) of the Baghdadis interviewed said they agree with the assertion that the U.S. is very serious about establishing a democratic system in Iraq, while roughly a third (36%) said they disagree with this characterization of America's intent and commitment. However, while many appear to see the U.S. commitment to democracy as very serious, there is also concern about whether the establishment of a democratic system will provide adequate insulation from U.S. pressure and influence. Only about a third (35%) of Baghdad residents agree that the U.S. will allow Iraqis to fashion their own political future as they see fit without direct U.S. influence, while 51% disagree with this prediction. --- Although more than a decade of severe economic sanctions were imposed under its auspices, Baghdad residents are considerably more likely to view the United Nations favorably (50%) than unfavorably (20%). In fact, of the seven U.N. member states rated, only Japan (60%), France (55%), and Germany (53%) -- the latter two both outspoken opponents of the coalition invasion -- are more likely than the United Nations to be viewed favorably. Views of U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan are more mixed, with 39% of Baghdadis expressing a favorable opinion and 28% an unfavorable one. In terms of net favorability (+13%), Annan is well ahead of both British Prime Minister Tony Blair (-27%) and President George Bush (-21%), but behind French President Jacques Chirac (+22%) and Coalition Provisional Authority chief administrator Paul Bremer (+24%). --- Gallup's survey sought Baghdad residents' reactions to the possibility of internationalizing the security effort -- not via troop commitments from specific nations (which would presumably remain under coalition command), but through the formation and introduction of an international peacekeeping police force.
Re: Milan Rai on UN occupation of Iraq
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote: Doug and Joel ought to remember that Iraq is *under foreign military occupation conducting counterinsurgency warfare* with censorship, checkpoints, house raids, arbitrary arrest and detention, no due process, etc. -- i.e. Iraqis do not have freedom of speech. And I know it's asking a lot, but you might want to listen to Richard Burkholder's responses to my questions about how you poll a people under occupation. The exchange took up a substantial portion of the interview http://www.leftbusinessobserver.com/Radio.html. Doug
U.S. Arm-Twists Iraqis to Seek U.N. Help Before Jun. 30
At 6:29 PM -0500 3/26/04, Joel Wendland wrote: Most Iraqis of a democratic perpsuasion would prefer the presence of UN peacekeepers for the maintenance of security. Ahmed Chalabi, Bush's point man in the IGC, has tried to deny this and say that Iraqis don't want or need a UN presence, but he and his cronies, of course, have no ties or base within Iraq. I think it might be a good idea to support the UN demand. It's Washington, not Iraqis, that has been demanding the U.N.: * POLITICS: U.S. Arm-Twists Iraqis to Seek U.N. Help Before Jun. 30 Thalif Deen UNITED NATIONS, Mar 19 (IPS) - Despite a rash of suicide attacks and roadside bombings directed at U.S. troops and foreigners in Iraq, Secretary-General Kofi Annan is preparing to send a team of U.N. officials back to Baghdad to help Iraqis hold elections and form a new civilian government. ''We are all very conscious of the security conditions (in Iraq), and we would be very careful,'' Annan told reporters Friday, while admitting security will remain ''a constraint'' on the movements of his team. He is hoping that both the U.S.-led Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) and the U.S.-appointed Iraqi Governing Council (IGC) ''will do their best to put the best available security team to protect the men and women I will be sending to assist them.'' Annan's decision to send a U.N. team is in response to a letter he received from the IGC seeking assistance to organise nationwide elections next year and to establish a legal framework. A similar letter was also sent to the U.N. chief by CPA head Ambassador Paul Bremer. But the IGC letter, according to reports from Baghdad, was sent to Annan under heavy pressure from Bremer, who is planning to terminate operations Jun. 30, and wants to see a U.N. presence in Iraq as a political counterweight to the IGC. ''Bremer obviously does not want any IGC member to upset his plans,'' an African diplomat told IPS, speaking on condition of anonymity. ''So he forced them to send a letter seeking U.N. assistance.'' Lakhdar Brahimi, the U.N. special adviser on Iraq, told reporters Friday there are ''definitely'' two or three members in the IGC, ''who had doubts about how useful a U.N. role might be.'' But he said he is confident the overwhelming majority of the 25 IGC members want the United Nations to return to Iraq. Asked if the Bremer-inspired IGC letter had dampened his enthusiasm to return to Baghdad, Brahimi said, ''I think the secretary-general has always said that we are not looking for a job, and we are not dying to go to Iraq. If the United Nations is not needed, I think that is perfect from our point of view,'' he added. Last month Brahimi lead a U.N. team to Iraq, which concluded that no elections were logistically feasible before Jun. 30. But he also ruled out a U.S. proposal to hold regional caucuses to elect an interim government in Baghdad. The inadvertent use of the phrase ''dying to go to Iraq'' was not lost on the vice president of the U.N. Staff Union, Guy Candusso, who posed the question: ''Is Iraq better off now than before?'' But he left it unanswered. Candusso said he understands the world body is only sending an assessment team to Iraq -- not returning the more than 1,000 international employees who were pulled out of the country after two deadly attacks on the U.N. compound last year, which claimed the lives of 22 staffers. As security deteriorated in Iraq last year, the remaining international workers were temporarily relocated to Cyprus and Jordan. Many of them work in U.N. humanitarian and development organisations, such as the U.N. Development Programme (UNDP), the U.N. Children's Fund (UNICEF) and the World Food Programme (WFP). Their work is now being handled mostly by local employees, who number over a thousand. A circular sent to U.N. divisional heads last month warned that no public reference should be made about the work of local staff lest their lives be jeopardised. The warning came in the wake of deadly attacks on dozens of Iraqis who were accused of cooperating either with U.S. military forces or with non-governmental and humanitarian organisations still working inside Iraq. The staff union, which represents the majority of the 14,000 U.N. employees worldwide, has continued to express strong reservations about the security environment in Iraq and the dangers it poses to international staff. U.N. spokesman Fred Eckhard told reporters Friday the security situation ''is still not good and it would be evaluated carefully before sending staff back''. ''Nonetheless, long-term planning for a return to Iraq continues, with special emphasis on security provisions,'' he added. Eckhard also said he assumed the U.N. electoral team would have to travel outside the capital. ''The CPA had assured the United Nations that it would make all the necessary security arrangements for (the team's) activities'', Eckhard said, but he could not predict what those activities would be or where they might take
Re: Milan Rai on UN occupation of Iraq
At 9:20 PM -0500 3/26/04, Doug Henwood wrote: Doug and Joel ought to remember that Iraq is *under foreign military occupation conducting counterinsurgency warfare* with censorship, checkpoints, house raids, arbitrary arrest and detention, no due process, etc. -- i.e. Iraqis do not have freedom of speech. Since you clearly don't want to read the actual poll, let me supply some highlights for you. What's the point of examining the content of a poll carefully if the polled are not under conditions where they can freely say what they think? You have yet to address what impacts Iraqis' fundamental lack of freedom have on any polling results (assuming that the pollster isn't fully embedded in the occupying authority). The idea of the occupier polling the occupied with a view to using the results for propaganda purposes is patently absurd, but you obviously don't think it is -- very perplexing. -- Yoshie * Bring Them Home Now! http://www.bringthemhomenow.org/ * Calendars of Events in Columbus: http://sif.org.ohio-state.edu/calendar.html, http://www.freepress.org/calendar.php, http://www.cpanews.org/ * Student International Forum: http://sif.org.ohio-state.edu/ * Committee for Justice in Palestine: http://www.osudivest.org/ * Al-Awda-Ohio: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Al-Awda-Ohio * Solidarity: http://www.solidarity-us.org/
Re: Milan Rai on UN occupation of Iraq
I think that this thread regarding polls is becoming repetitive. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: [lbo-talk] Milan Rai on UN occupation of Iraq
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote: At 4:07 PM -0800 3/26/04, Devine, James wrote: people do often reply to polls by saying what they feel they ought to say. They often do even under normal circumstances in the United States (e.g., Americans overstate their church attendance). Doug and Joel ought to remember that Iraq is *under foreign military occupation conducting counterinsurgency warfare* with censorship, checkpoints, house raids, arbitrary arrest and detention, no due process, etc. -- i.e. Iraqis do not have freedom of speech. I can't quite see the point of this argument. The (active) anti-war movement is irrevocably committed to U.S. out of Iraq Now! The debate is really over on that. No one is going to go out and organize in favor of some such slogan as The U.S. should think about leaving as soon as it has established a stable order that the U.N. is willing to oversee and that is approved by at least 63% of the Iraqi people in a scientifically organized poll. And regardless of exact percentage of Iraqis that (verbally) support this or that, it is clear that well over 10% of the Iraqi population is committed to expelling the U.S. That guarantees that upwards of 100,000 troops are permanently committed to taking continual casualties so long as the U.S. remains there. That in turn means (a) that the u.s. lacks the military resources for further aggression elsewhere -- e.g., there can be no _direct_ u.s. intervention in Venezuela, and (b) that the anti-war movement will be able to retain at least its present level of strength, with new people in it becoming steadily more committed to protracted struggle. It should even grow a bit after the present hiatus from politics ends sometime early in 2005. Nearly everyone in the local group is committed to ABB, but they are also quite free from the sectarian crap that seems to infest most (not all) ABBs on the maillists. Hence it makes sense to a very large core to work hard to build for the future. And no one has let out a peep about popularity polls in Iraq. They want the troops home. What I said in October 2001 seems to be still holding: the political future is much brighter than it was before 9/11. Carrol
Re: Milan Rai on UN occupation of Iraq
Devine, James wrote: Quoting someone: Some folks sititng in university offices in the United States often will And there are some folks who never choose to argue with specific arguments from specific opponents. They prefer to set up ghostly (and mostly nonexistent) opponents with silly arguments. It so simplifies life if one never needs to confront actual postions held by acutal people who are actually present in the conversation but can carry on this ghostly argument with some people. I agree with Jim's actual arguments, but he will never get a reply to those arguments. Someone will invent another ghostly someone somewhere to reply to. Carrol
Re: U.S. Officials Fashion Legal Basis to Keep Force in Iraq
U.S. Officials Fashion Legal Basis to Keep Force in Iraq by John F Burns and Thom Shanker BAGHDAD, Iraq With fewer than 100 days to go before Iraq resumes its sovereignty, American officials say they believe they have found a legal basis for American troops to continue their military control over the security situation in Iraq. A European diplomat said that continued American military control sends the wrong signal and gives an impression of continuing foreign occupation in Iraq. After months of concern about the legal status of the 110,000 American troops who are expected to remain here after the occupation formally ends on June 30, the officials say they believe an existing United Nations resolution approving the presence of a multinational force in Iraq, approved by the Security Council in October, gives American commanders the authority needed to maintain control after sovereignty is handed back. Showing his confidence that the approach was grounded in international law, L. Paul Bremer III, the chief of the occupation authority, issued an executive order this week specifying that the newly formed Iraqi armed forces be placed under the operational control of the American commander, Lt. Gen. Ricardo S. Sanchez, who has been named to lead American and allied forces after the transfer of political authority to the Iraqis. Mr. Bremer and other top American officials say they believe Security Council Resolution 1511, which conferred the mandate for the American-led alliance, can be used to provide legal justification for the American military command to operate until Dec. 31, 2005. That is when a timetable agreed on by Iraqi leaders envisages the final transition to an elected Iraqi government. The plan, the American officials say, will require the Security Council to review the resolution before it expires in October. But the United States may also seek a new resolution, hoping to placate Spain's new prime minister, José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, who has said that he will withdraw Spain's contingent unless the force is placed under clear United Nations control. The Americans hope they will not be forced to rely on a legalistic argument. They plan to negotiate with the interim Iraqi government in place after June 30 for the kind of status of forces agreement the United States has in dozens of nations where its forces are deployed. But if negotiations snag many Iraqi political leaders are often hostile to the foreign military presence the Americans believe that they will be able to fall back on the United Nations resolution. That remains to be tested. Some Iraqi politicians maintain that United Nations mandate was intended to lapse at the return of sovereignty. But American officials, citing a passage in the resolution saying that the mandate would expire upon the completion of the political process, argue that it will not lapse until a permanent Iraqi government takes office. European and United Nations diplomats said Thursday that American control would still have to be approved by the Iraqis taking office on June 30. That control, said a United Nations official, is not likely to survive the transfer of sovereignty unless the successor government approves it. There were also questions about the effects of extending the primacy of the American military. The United Nations official said that while it would be a practical reality for American domination to continue despite Iraqi self-rule, it has to be done in a way that's not offensive to Iraqis and the international community, which emphasizes Iraqi sovereignty rather than Iraqi impotence. A European diplomat said that continued American military control sends the wrong signal and gives an impression of continuing foreign occupation in Iraq. Nevertheless, in recent interviews, American officials and military commanders said they were confident that they had found a way to avert the possible political crisis that loomed after Iraqi leaders made it plain that no status-of-forces talks would occur before June 30. American concern has focused primarily on Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, a Shiite cleric who has become a champion of the Shiite majority and of Iraqi nationalism and who has thrown a succession of political roadblocks in the path of the American plan for transition to Iraqi rule. He has rejected the interim constitution adopted by the Iraqi Governing Council, an advisory body handpicked by the Americans, and, some Iraqi politicians believe, could eventually try to derail the status-of-forces discussions. One of the most influential members of the Governing Council who has close relations with the Americans offered support on Thursday for the American approach. The council member, Adnan Pachachi, a Sunni and a former Iraqi foreign minister, said it made sense to rely on the resolution as a fallback. He also said he supported Mr. Bremer's decision to put Iraq's military forces under American control. Mr. Pachachi is favored to be the Sunni
Re: U.S. Arm-Twists Iraqis to Seek U.N. Help Before Jun. 30
Probably shouldn't confuse a UN assessment team and advisor that won't even number the same as the 1,000 bureaucrats that were in Iraq last September. _ All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by ESPN. http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn
Re: Shifting genres in media/pop culture and the shifting SSA of Monopoly Capitalism/Imperialism
Craven, Jim wrote: In the case of the Reality shows, they are relatively cheap to produce, focus on trappings of wealth (temporary) like being set in exotic locales and big mansions, and of course utilize, celebrate, preach, reward and reinforce: rat-race individualism, greed, selfishness, intrigue, betrayal, egoism, narcissism, racism, sexism, homophobia, social darwinism, hard-body youth, phony patriotism, Machiavellianism, cut-throat competition, situational ethics, get-rich-quick, fear, national chauvinism, civilization versus primitivism, crass materialism, predatory calculations of cost/benefit, etc etc. There was a novel by Horace McCoy, set in the depression and called They Shoot Horses Don't They? It's set at a dance marathon--where poor people danced without sleep for weeks ...until they all dropped out but one couple...who won the money.. They made a pretty good movie, based on it, by the same title with Michael Sarazzin, Jane Fonda, Red Buttons, Gig Young, Susanna Yorkand god knows who else. That's all I can remember. The movie is available at Amazon in VHS and DVD. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/002-1890106-7097628 When the reality shows came out, they really reminded me of that movie. It would be vrey interesting to compare the two instances of this genre. Best, Joanna
Re: U.S. Arm-Twists Iraqis to Seek U.N. Help Before Jun. 30
Probably shouldn't confuse a UN assessment team and advisor that won't even number the same as the 1,000 bureaucrats that were in Iraq last September. The United Nations is in the business of supporting what Washington wants: *Bremer: Vote may be 15 months away By Edmund Sanders Los Angeles Times BAGHDAD, Iraq -- The civil administrator for Iraq suggested Saturday that it could take as long as 15 months for elections to be held in Iraq, a timetable squarely at odds with that of the nation's leading Shiite Muslim cleric. Coalition Provisional Authority head Paul Bremer, in an interview with an Arab television network, said Iraq needs to build the proper infrastructure to support elections. These technical problems will take time to fix, he told Dubai-based Al-Arabiya. Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Husseini al-Sistani, in written remarks released Saturday, said the United States has been stalling and failing to take the necessary steps to prepare for elections before its scheduled June 30 transfer of power to an Iraqi transitional government. . . . On Thursday, U.N. secretary-general Kofi Annan confirmed that a team of U.N. electoral experts who visited Iraq this month had concluded that the nation wouldn't be ready for elections until the end of the year or early 2005. The new statements by Bremer and al-Sistani underscore the challenges faced by the United Nations as it attempts to broker a compromise and bring stability to the region. In his TV remarks, Bremer said the U.N. estimates somewhere between a year and 15 months will be needed before elections can be held. (February 22, 2004, http://www.sltrib.com/2004/Feb/0004/nation_w/141219.asp) * Washington wanted to delay elections, and the United Nations came up with an estimate that pleases Washington; since then, Iraqis have been pressured into accepting the postponement of elections. -- Yoshie * Bring Them Home Now! http://www.bringthemhomenow.org/ * Calendars of Events in Columbus: http://sif.org.ohio-state.edu/calendar.html, http://www.freepress.org/calendar.php, http://www.cpanews.org/ * Student International Forum: http://sif.org.ohio-state.edu/ * Committee for Justice in Palestine: http://www.osudivest.org/ * Al-Awda-Ohio: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Al-Awda-Ohio * Solidarity: http://www.solidarity-us.org/
Re: [lbo-talk] Milan Rai on UN occupation of Iraq
Doug and Joel ought to remember that Iraq is *under foreign military occupation conducting counterinsurgency warfare* with censorship, checkpoints, house raids, arbitrary arrest and detention, no due process, etc. -- i.e. Iraqis do not have freedom of speech. I'm not sure why I'm being characetrized as having argued that Iraqis have free speech. More accurately, I think that we can't just assume that people are lying or are duped or their own view of things is as clear as we think ours is. I can't quite see the point of this argument. The (active) anti-war movement is irrevocably committed to U.S. out of Iraq Now! The debate is really over on that. No one is going to go out and organize in favor of some such slogan as The U.S. should think about leaving as soon as it has established a stable order that the U.N. is willing to oversee and that is approved by at least 63% of the Iraqi people in a scientifically organized poll. The march 20th demo near where I live used the slogan US out/UN in. I just don't think the situation is as simple as US out Now! Of course they should get out; they should have never gone. To my mind, there are some similarities to the situation in Haiti. After the US unleashes terrorist gangs (former death squad types funded by the CIA), sponsored now by the Republican Party, by the way, should we just say US out Now! and let the Haitians fend for themselves? And regardless of exact percentage of Iraqis that (verbally) support this or that, it is clear that well over 10% of the Iraqi population is committed to expelling the U.S. That guarantees that upwards of 100,000 troops are permanently committed to taking continual casualties so long as the U.S. remains there. That in turn means (a) that the u.s. lacks the military resources for further aggression elsewhere -- e.g., there can be no _direct_ u.s. intervention in Venezuela, and (b) that the anti-war movement will be able to retain at least its present level of strength, with new people in it becoming steadily more committed to protracted struggle. It should even grow a bit after the present hiatus from politics ends sometime early in 2005. Nearly everyone in the local group is committed to ABB, but they are also quite free from the sectarian crap that seems to infest most (not all) ABBs on the maillists. Hence it makes sense to a very large core to work hard to build for the future. And no one has let out a peep about popularity polls in Iraq. They want the troops home. What I said in October 2001 seems to be still holding: the political future is much brighter than it was before 9/11. Carrol All very well put. Joel Wendland http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/articleview/70/1/14/ (interview with Iraq CP representative I did late last September) _ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
Information Warfare (Milan Rai on UN occupation of Iraq)
At 9:17 PM -0600 3/26/04, Carrol Cox wrote: Yoshie Furuhashi wrote: At 4:07 PM -0800 3/26/04, Devine, James wrote: people do often reply to polls by saying what they feel they ought to say. They often do even under normal circumstances in the United States (e.g., Americans overstate their church attendance). Doug and Joel ought to remember that Iraq is *under foreign military occupation conducting counterinsurgency warfare* with censorship, checkpoints, house raids, arbitrary arrest and detention, no due process, etc. -- i.e. Iraqis do not have freedom of speech. I can't quite see the point of this argument. The (active) anti-war movement is irrevocably committed to U.S. out of Iraq Now! The debate is really over on that. No one is going to go out and organize in favor of some such slogan as The U.S. should think about leaving as soon as it has established a stable order that the U.N. is willing to oversee and that is approved by at least 63% of the Iraqi people in a scientifically organized poll. I agree that no one will organize any street demonstrations explicitly demanding the continuing foreign occupation until order is restored. I've been thinking, though, that opinion polls in Iraq are not so much to reflect Iraqi opinions as to construct American opinions. The same BBC survey that Milan Rai writes about is proudly put on display on the CPA website: http://www.cpa-iraq.org/cgi-bin/prfriendly.cgi?http://www.cpa-iraq.org/. Now, I doubt that very many Iraqis believe what the CPA peddles without a giant grain of salt, so such CPA-approved polls can't influence Iraqis, despite what Douglas Feith said. When Douglas Feith, the official who oversaw OSI, was asked whether the Pentagon might 'secretly enlist' a non-government third party 'to spread false or misleading information to the news media,' he did not rule it out. 'We are going to preserve our ability to undertake operations that may, for tactical purposes, mislead an enemy,' said Feith (AP, 2/20/02), 'but we are not going to blow our credibility as an institution in our public pronouncements.' The Pentagon might lie, he seemed to be saying, but won't announce that it's doing so (Rachel Cohen, Behind the Pentagon's Propaganda Plan, _Extra! Update_, April 2002, http://www.fair.org/extra/0204/osi.html). The main victims must be the American electorate, as William Arkin suggested: * Now, in remarks made at a November 18 media briefing, Rumsfeld has suggested that though the exposure of OSI's plans forced the Pentagon to close the office, they certainly haven't given up on its work. According to a transcript on the Department of Defense website, Rumsfeld told reporters: And then there was the Office of Strategic Influence. You may recall that. And 'oh my goodness gracious isn't that terrible, Henny Penny the sky is going to fall.' I went down that next day and said fine, if you want to savage this thing fine I'll give you the corpse. There's the name. You can have the name, but I'm gonna keep doing every single thing that needs to be done and I have. A search of the Nexis database indicates that no major U.S. media outlets -- no national broadcast television news shows, no major U.S. newspapers, no wire services or major magazines -- have reported Rumsfeld's remarks. Rumsfeld's comments seem all the more alarming in light of analysis presented by William Arkin in a recent Los Angeles Times opinion column (11/24/02), in which he argues that Rumsfeld is redesigning the U.S. military to make information warfare central to its functions. This new policy, says Arkin, increasingly blurs or even erases the boundaries between factual information and news, on the one hand, and public relations, propaganda and psychological warfare, on the other. Arkin adds that while the policy ostensibly targets foreign enemies, its most likely victim will be the American electorate. (MEDIA ADVISORY: The Office of Strategic Influence Is Gone, But Are Its Programs In Place? November 27, 2002, http://www.fair.org/press-releases/osi-followup.html) * To read the full transcript of Rumsfeld's remarks, go to http://www.dod.gov/news/Nov2002/t11212002_t1118sd2.html. Opinion polls conducted by non-government third parties to spread false or misleading information to the news media must be among the most useful tools of information warfare against Americans, especially if Americans who are as smart as Doug can believe that Iraqis are free to say what they think and feel under the foreign military occupation -- including advocating armed and unarmed resistance against it -- without worrying about any potential consequences at all. -- Yoshie * Bring Them Home Now! http://www.bringthemhomenow.org/ * Calendars of Events in Columbus: http://sif.org.ohio-state.edu/calendar.html, http://www.freepress.org/calendar.php, http://www.cpanews.org/ * Student International Forum: http://sif.org.ohio-state.edu/ * Committee for Justice in Palestine: http://www.osudivest.org/ *
Re: Milan Rai on UN occupation of Iraq
Yoshie writes: ?The idea of the occupier polling the occupied with a view to using the results for propaganda purposes is patently absurd, but you obviously don't think it is -- very perplexing. it reminds me of an old cartoon in the NEW YORKER, back in the 1960s: two South Vietnamese soldiers aim their rifles at peasants and ask if the election were held today, who would you vote for? Jim D
