Fwd: [HACKERS] int type problem in 7.3
Ok, I checked this again. Up until 7.2, it was possible to compare an empty string to a number, and it worked:: e.g.: select * from mytable where int4id='' worked fine, but delivered no result. This is exactly what Oracle did here, a comparison like this does not work: SQL select * from re_eintraege where id='foobar'; select * from re_eintraege where id='foobar' * ERROR at line 1: ORA-01722: invalid number But oracle accepts this one: SQL select * from re_eintraege where id=''; no rows selected because oracle treats the empty string as NULL and effectivly checks: select * from re_eintraege where id is null; I think 7.3 is doing right here and I've to fix all queries (*sigh*), but oracle compatibilty is lost here. The bad news for me is, rewriting the queries won't help here, because I'll use indexing when I rewrite my queries to: select 1 from mytable where id::text='' Regards, Mario Weilguni -- Weitergeleitete Nachricht -- Subject: [HACKERS] int type problem in 7.3 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:31:45 +0200 From: Mario Weilguni [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] It seems queries like: select ... from table where id='' (an empty string) do not work anymore, it worked up to 7.2. This will make migration to 7.3 quite difficult for some application, especially for oracle applications. Would'nt it be better to evaluate such expressions to false. Regards, Mario Weilguni ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Improving speed of copy
Have you tried this with Oracle or similar commercial database? I have timed COPY/LOAD times for Postgresql/Mysql/Oracle/Db2 - the rough comparison is : Db2 and Mysql fastest (Db2 slightly faster) Oracle approx twice as slow as Db2 Postgresql about 3.5-4 times slower than Db2 However Postgresql can sometimes create indexes faster than Mysql so that the total time of COPY + CREATE INDEX can be smaller for Postgresql than Mysql. Oracle an Db2 seemed similarish to Postgresql with respect to CREATE INDEX regards Mark ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[HACKERS] Please, applay patch to current CVS
This is small README fix for contrib/intarray. Thank you. -- Teodor Sigaev [EMAIL PROTECTED] intarray_patch.gz Description: application/gzip ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Purpose of rscale/dscale in NUMERIC?
Tom Lane wrote: What is the reason for maintaining separate rscale and dscale values in numeric variables? I am finding that this arrangement leads to some odd results, for example this: regression=# select (exp(ln(2.0)) - 2.0); ?column? - -0. (1 row) regression=# select (exp(ln(2.0)) - 2.0) * 10; ?column? - -0.0010 (1 row) The difference between rscale and dscale allows some hidden digits to be carried along in an expression result, and then possibly exposed later. This seems pretty nonintuitive for an allegedly exact calculational datatype. ISTM the policy should be what you see is what you get - no hidden digits. That would mean there's no need for separating rscale and dscale, so I'm wondering why they were put in to begin with. You need to carry around a decent number of digits when you divide already. Exposing them in a manner that numericcol(15,2) / 3.0 all of the sudden displays 16 or more digits isn't much more intuitive. But carrying around only 2 here leads to nonintuitively fuzzy results on the other hand. It only applies to division and higher functions, and these are not exact if you calculate the result and represent it decimal. They never have been. So to answer your question, they are there to make the NUMERIC datatype useful for non-exact stuff too. You can expect an exact result where an exact representation in decimal can be expected. Where this is not the case, you get a good approximation. Jan -- #==# # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. # # Let's break this rule - forgive me. # #== [EMAIL PROTECTED] # ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] some more minor incompatibilties 7.2 - 7.3
Mario Weilguni [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So timespan is no longer supported I guess, but reltime will work as well. Is there a compatibility or migration section in the documentation that might help users to handle this? The release notes are still in a pretty crude state, but they do mention this issue: : The last vestiges of support for type names datetime and timespan are : gone; use timestamp and interval instead See http://developer.postgresql.org/docs/postgres/release.html regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: Fwd: [HACKERS] int type problem in 7.3
Mario Weilguni [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ok, I checked this again. Up until 7.2, it was possible to compare an empty string to a number, and it worked:: e.g.: select * from mytable where int4id='' worked fine, but delivered no result. No, that was not what it did: in reality, the '' was silently taken as zero, and would match rows containing 0. That seems a very error-prone behavior (not to say a flat-out bug) to me. But oracle accepts this one: SQL select * from re_eintraege where id=''; no rows selected because oracle treats the empty string as NULL Oracle does that for string data, but it doesn't do it for numerics does it? In any case, that behavior is surely non-compliant with the SQL spec. We were not compatible with Oracle on this behavior before, and I'm not very inclined to become so now. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Purpose of rscale/dscale in NUMERIC?
Jan Wieck [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tom Lane wrote: What is the reason for maintaining separate rscale and dscale values in numeric variables? You need to carry around a decent number of digits when you divide already. Exposing them in a manner that numericcol(15,2) / 3.0 all of the sudden displays 16 or more digits isn't much more intuitive. But carrying around only 2 here leads to nonintuitively fuzzy results on the other hand. Certainly you need extra guard digits while you do the calculation. What I'm wondering is why the delivered result would have hidden digits in it. If they're accurate, why not show them? If they're not accurate (which they're not, at least in the case I showed) why is it a good idea to let them escape? regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: Fwd: [HACKERS] int type problem in 7.3
But oracle accepts this one: SQL select * from re_eintraege where id=''; no rows selected because oracle treats the empty string as NULL Oracle does that for string data, but it doesn't do it for numerics does it? In any case, that behavior is surely non-compliant with the SQL spec. No, oracle accepts this and works correctly with number() datatype. However I did not know that in postgres '' was treated as '0'. Regards, Mario Weilguni ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] pg_dump and large files - is this a problem?
At 09:42 AM 2/10/2002 +1000, Philip Warner wrote: Yes, and do the peripheral stuff to support old archives etc. Does silence mean people agree? Does it also mean someone is doing this (eg. whoever did the off_t support)? Or does it mean somebody else needs to do it? Philip Warner| __---_ Albatross Consulting Pty. Ltd. |/ - \ (A.B.N. 75 008 659 498) | /() __---_ Tel: (+61) 0500 83 82 81 | _ \ Fax: (+61) 0500 83 82 82 | ___ | Http://www.rhyme.com.au |/ \| |---- PGP key available upon request, | / and from pgp5.ai.mit.edu:11371 |/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: Fwd: [HACKERS] int type problem in 7.3
On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Mario Weilguni wrote: But oracle accepts this one: SQL select * from re_eintraege where id=''; no rows selected because oracle treats the empty string as NULL Oracle does that for string data, but it doesn't do it for numerics does it? In any case, that behavior is surely non-compliant with the SQL spec. No, oracle accepts this and works correctly with number() datatype. However I did not know that in postgres '' was treated as '0'. So what would I be selecting in Oracle if I did: SELECT * FROM mytable WHERE myfield = '' where myfield is of VARCHAR type? If you want to select on NULL, whether or not you think the database is more intelligent than you in determining what you really want, then write your query to select on NULL. The chances are your database is not actually a mind reader. -- Nigel J. Andrews ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] pg_dump and large files - is this a problem?
Philip Warner [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At 09:42 AM 2/10/2002 +1000, Philip Warner wrote: Yes, and do the peripheral stuff to support old archives etc. Does silence mean people agree? Does it also mean someone is doing this (eg. whoever did the off_t support)? Or does it mean somebody else needs to do it? It needs to get done; AFAIK no one has stepped up to do it. Do you want to? regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Purpose of rscale/dscale in NUMERIC?
Tom Lane wrote: Jan Wieck [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tom Lane wrote: What is the reason for maintaining separate rscale and dscale values in numeric variables? You need to carry around a decent number of digits when you divide already. Exposing them in a manner that numericcol(15,2) / 3.0 all of the sudden displays 16 or more digits isn't much more intuitive. But carrying around only 2 here leads to nonintuitively fuzzy results on the other hand. Certainly you need extra guard digits while you do the calculation. What I'm wondering is why the delivered result would have hidden digits in it. If they're accurate, why not show them? If they're not accurate (which they're not, at least in the case I showed) why is it a good idea to let them escape? So we need them in the calculation, and if it's a nested tree of function calls, they have to travel around too. What do you think is a good place to kill these critters then? Jan -- #==# # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. # # Let's break this rule - forgive me. # #== [EMAIL PROTECTED] # ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
[HACKERS] Release of 7.2.3
This document: http://developer.postgresql.org/docs/postgres/release-7-2-3.html mentions a release date of 2002-10-01 for version 7.2.3. It isn't on the main website, tough, is it? Regards, Michael ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Release of 7.2.3
On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Michael Paesold wrote: This document: http://developer.postgresql.org/docs/postgres/release-7-2-3.html mentions a release date of 2002-10-01 for version 7.2.3. It isn't on the main website, tough, is it? The documentation on the developers website is not necessarily accurate - especially when it comes to dates. Documentation is typically one of the last things finalized and is in a constant state of change. That's one of the reasons why the developer site is separated from the main website - people read things on the developer site and think they're 100% accurate. Nothing is final until it's announced on the announce mailing list and/or the main website. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking http://www.camping-usa.com http://www.cloudninegifts.com http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
[HACKERS] small patch for vacuumlo
It's just a cosmetic change, fixes the help screen. Should be applied in /contrib/vacuumlo Regards, Mario Weilguni --- ../vacuumlo.c Thu Sep 5 23:19:13 2002 +++ vacuumlo.c Wed Oct 2 18:03:29 2002 @@ -383,7 +383,6 @@ fprintf(stdout, -U username\tUsername to connect as\n); fprintf(stdout, -W\t\tPrompt for password\n); fprintf(stdout, -h hostname\tDatabase server host\n); - fprintf(stdout, -p port\tDatabase server port\n); fprintf(stdout, -p port\tDatabase server port\n\n); } ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: Fwd: [HACKERS] int type problem in 7.3
Have you looked at transform_null_equals in the postgresql.conf file to see if turning that on makes this work like oracle? On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Mario Weilguni wrote: Ok, I checked this again. Up until 7.2, it was possible to compare an empty string to a number, and it worked:: e.g.: select * from mytable where int4id='' worked fine, but delivered no result. This is exactly what Oracle did here, a comparison like this does not work: SQL select * from re_eintraege where id='foobar'; select * from re_eintraege where id='foobar' * ERROR at line 1: ORA-01722: invalid number But oracle accepts this one: SQL select * from re_eintraege where id=''; no rows selected because oracle treats the empty string as NULL and effectivly checks: select * from re_eintraege where id is null; I think 7.3 is doing right here and I've to fix all queries (*sigh*), but oracle compatibilty is lost here. The bad news for me is, rewriting the queries won't help here, because I'll use indexing when I rewrite my queries to: select 1 from mytable where id::text='' Regards, Mario Weilguni -- Weitergeleitete Nachricht -- Subject: [HACKERS] int type problem in 7.3 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:31:45 +0200 From: Mario Weilguni [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] It seems queries like: select ... from table where id='' (an empty string) do not work anymore, it worked up to 7.2. This will make migration to 7.3 quite difficult for some application, especially for oracle applications. Would'nt it be better to evaluate such expressions to false. Regards, Mario Weilguni ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
[HACKERS] Diff for reindexdb
This small patch adds a Makefile for /contrib/reindexdb/ and renames the README to README.reindexdb. Regards, Mario Weilguni diff -Nur postgresql-7.3b2.orig/contrib/reindexdb/Makefile postgresql-7.3b2/contrib/reindexdb/Makefile --- postgresql-7.3b2.orig/contrib/reindexdb/Makefile 1970-01-01 01:00:00.0 +0100 +++ postgresql-7.3b2/contrib/reindexdb/Makefile 2002-10-02 18:21:44.0 +0200 @@ -0,0 +1,12 @@ +subdir = contrib/reindexdb +top_builddir = ../.. +include $(top_builddir)/src/Makefile.global + +SCRIPTS = reindexdb + +PG_CPPFLAGS = -I$(libpq_srcdir) +PG_LIBS = $(libpq) + +DOCS = README.reindexdb + +include $(top_srcdir)/contrib/contrib-global.mk diff -Nur postgresql-7.3b2.orig/contrib/reindexdb/README postgresql-7.3b2/contrib/reindexdb/README --- postgresql-7.3b2.orig/contrib/reindexdb/README 2002-06-23 05:51:55.0 +0200 +++ postgresql-7.3b2/contrib/reindexdb/README 1970-01-01 01:00:00.0 +0100 @@ -1,9 +0,0 @@ - - reindexdb - -Indexes are known to grow over time. Being as vacuum doesn't slow or -clean up after this growth, and there is no command to reindex all tables -in a database, it made sense to construct this utility to do it. - -Shaun Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] - diff -Nur postgresql-7.3b2.orig/contrib/reindexdb/README.reindexdb postgresql-7.3b2/contrib/reindexdb/README.reindexdb --- postgresql-7.3b2.orig/contrib/reindexdb/README.reindexdb 1970-01-01 01:00:00.0 +0100 +++ postgresql-7.3b2/contrib/reindexdb/README.reindexdb 2002-06-23 05:51:55.0 +0200 @@ -0,0 +1,9 @@ + + reindexdb + +Indexes are known to grow over time. Being as vacuum doesn't slow or +clean up after this growth, and there is no command to reindex all tables +in a database, it made sense to construct this utility to do it. + +Shaun Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] + ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
[HACKERS] Correlation in cost_index()
You all know this FAQ: Why does Postgres not use my index? Half of the time this problem can easily be solved by casting a literal to the type of the respective column; this is not my topic here. In many other cases it turns out that the planner over-estimates the cost of an index scan. Sometimes this can be worked around by lowering random_page_cost. Of course, that's a hack that is quite unrelated to the real problem. I strongly agree ;-) AFAICS (part of) the real problem is in costsize.c:cost_index() where IO_cost is calculated from min_IO_cost, pages_fetched, random_page_cost, and indexCorrelation. The current implementation uses indexCorrelation^2 to interpolate between min_IO_cost and max_IO_cost, which IMHO gives results that are too close to max_IO_cost. This conjecture is supported by the fact, that often actual run times are much lower than estimated, when seqscans are disabled. So we have to find a cost function, so that . min_IO_cost = cost = max_IO_cost for -1 = indexCorrelation = 1 . cost -- min_IO_cost for indexCorrelation -- +/- 1 . cost -- max_IO_cost for indexCorrelation -- 0 . cost tends more towards min_IO_cost than current implementation After playing around a bit I propose three functions satisfying above conditions. All proposals use absC = abs(indexCorrelation). Proposal 1: Use absC for interpolation. IO_cost = absC * min_IO_cost + (1 - absC) * max_IO_cost; Proposal 2: First calculate estimates for numbers of pages and cost per page, then multiply the results. estPages = absC * minPages + (1 - absC) * maxPages; estPCost = absC * 1 + (1 - absC) * random_page_cost; /* ^ sequential_page_cost */ IO_cost = estPages * estPCost; Proposal 3: Interpolate geometrically, using absC. IO-cost = exp( absC* ln(min_IO_Cost) + (1 - absC) * ln(max_IO_cost)); Here are some numbers for seq_page_cost = 1 (constant) random_page_cost = 4 (GUC) minPages = 61 maxPages = 1440 corr current p1p2p3 0 5760.00 5760.00 5760.00 5760.00 0.1 5703.01 5190.10 4817.77 3655.22 0.2 5532.04 4620.20 3958.28 2319.55 0.3 5247.09 4050.30 3181.53 1471.96 0.4 4848.16 3480.40 2487.52934.08 0.5 4335.25 2910.50 1876.25592.76 0.6 3708.36 2340.60 1347.72376.16 0.7 2967.49 1770.70901.93238.70 0.8 2112.64 1200.80538.88151.48 0.9 1143.81630.90258.57 96.13 0.95 616.65345.95149.44 76.57 0.99 174.41117.99 77.03 63.84 0.995 117.85 89.50 68.91 62.40 0.999 72.39 66.70 62.57 61.28 1 61.00 61.00 61.00 61.00 Another example for seq_page_cost = 1 (constant) random_page_cost = 10 (GUC) minPages = 20 maxPages = 938.58 corr current p1p2p3 0 9385.79 9385.79 9385.79 9385.79 0.1 9292.14 8449.21 7705.17 5073.72 0.2 9011.16 7512.64 6189.88 2742.73 0.3 8542.87 6576.06 4839.94 1482.65 0.4 7887.27 5639.48 3655.34801.48 0.5 7044.35 4702.90 2636.09433.26 0.6 6014.11 3766.32 1782.19234.21 0.7 4796.56 2829.74 1093.62126.61 0.8 3391.69 1893.16570.40 68.44 0.9 1799.50956.58212.53 37.00 0.95 933.16488.29 95.60 27.20 0.99 206.38113.66 31.81 21.27 0.995 113.42 66.83 25.70 20.62 0.999 38.72 29.37 21.11 20.12 1 20.00 20.00 20.00 20.00 (If you want to play around with your own numbers, I can send my OOo spreadsheet privately or to the list.) The second example shows that especially with proposal 3 we could afford to set random_page_cost to a *higher* value, which in contrast to previous recommendations seems to be appropriate, IIRC that benchmark results posted here showed values of up to 60. As nobody knows how each of these proposals performs in real life under different conditions, I suggest to leave the current implementation in, add all three algorithms, and supply a GUC variable to select a cost function. Comments? Ideas? Objections? Servus Manfred ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Correlation in cost_index()
On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Manfred Koizar wrote: As nobody knows how each of these proposals performs in real life under different conditions, I suggest to leave the current implementation in, add all three algorithms, and supply a GUC variable to select a cost function. I'd certainly be willing to do some testing on my own data with them. Gotta patch? I've found that when the planner misses, sometimes it misses by HUGE amounts on large tables, and I have been running random page cost at 1 lately, as well as running cpu_index_cost at 1/10th the default setting to get good results. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
[HACKERS] Advice: Where could I be of help?
All, I'd like to help work on some 7.4 features, however, since you've not seen my name before, I'm obviously new to the list and the org. I really like working on speed optimizations and rewrites. I have 15 years experience with C++-based systems and databases, and have worked on commercial database engines (i.e. indexing and query execution systems), sql execution and optimization, various lex and yacc based compilers and parsers. I've generally been able to get code to perform as well or better than competitive systems with similar functionality, and usually have been able to beat other code by 3 to 10 X. My unix experience is reasonable but I'm not an expert. Any suggestions for where to start? I don't mind digging into very hairy code or large problems. I'm willing to run the risk of a patch not being accepted (for large changes) since I'll make sure whatever I do is well known to those who will do the accept/deny and the approach approved of ahead of time. Since I'm new here, I'm thinking a problem that would not otherwise get handled by the experienced group would be the best place to start. Where is the system especially slow? I've read the TODO's, and the last five months of the archives for this list, so I have some general ideas. I've also had a lot experience marketing to I.T. organizations so I'd be happy to help out on the Product Marketing for PostgreSQL advocacy, i.e. developing a marketing strategy, press releases, etc. - Curtis Curtis Faith Principal Galt Capital, LLP -- Galt Capitalhttp://www.galtcapital.com 12 Wimmelskafts Gade Post Office Box 7549 voice: 340.776.0144 Charlotte Amalie, St. Thomasfax: 340.776.0244 United States Virgin Islands 00801 cell: 340.643.5368 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Advice: Where could I be of help?
I'm not a developer, but I know this item on the todo list has been a magor pain in my side for quite a while: # Make IN/NOT IN have similar performance to EXISTS/NOT EXISTS [http://momjian.postgresql.org/cgi-bin/pgtodo?exists] Any time I've attempted to use this feature, the query cost is in the millions according to explain, which of course makes it useless to even execute. :( I have managed to work around this performance problem, but it sure would be nice if PGSQL handled such cases better. There are probably thousands of other todo items you could spend your time on that would be more useful to more people, but this is just one suggestion. :) On Wed, 2002-10-02 at 13:13, Curtis Faith wrote: All, I'd like to help work on some 7.4 features, however, since you've not seen my name before, I'm obviously new to the list and the org. I really like working on speed optimizations and rewrites. I have 15 years experience with C++-based systems and databases, and have worked on commercial database engines (i.e. indexing and query execution systems), sql execution and optimization, various lex and yacc based compilers and parsers. I've generally been able to get code to perform as well or better than competitive systems with similar functionality, and usually have been able to beat other code by 3 to 10 X. My unix experience is reasonable but I'm not an expert. Any suggestions for where to start? I don't mind digging into very hairy code or large problems. I'm willing to run the risk of a patch not being accepted (for large changes) since I'll make sure whatever I do is well known to those who will do the accept/deny and the approach approved of ahead of time. Since I'm new here, I'm thinking a problem that would not otherwise get handled by the experienced group would be the best place to start. Where is the system especially slow? I've read the TODO's, and the last five months of the archives for this list, so I have some general ideas. I've also had a lot experience marketing to I.T. organizations so I'd be happy to help out on the Product Marketing for PostgreSQL advocacy, i.e. developing a marketing strategy, press releases, etc. - Curtis Curtis Faith Principal Galt Capital, LLP -- Galt Capitalhttp://www.galtcapital.com 12 Wimmelskafts Gade Post Office Box 7549 voice: 340.776.0144 Charlotte Amalie, St. Thomasfax: 340.776.0244 United States Virgin Islands 00801 cell: 340.643.5368 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Advice: Where could I be of help?
Curtis Faith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'd like to help work on some 7.4 features, however, since you've not seen my name before, I'm obviously new to the list and the org. [...] Any suggestions for where to start? Well, I'd suggest working on what you find interesting -- there is room for improvement in just about every area of the system, so don't let us dictate how you spend your free time. That said, the code for hash indexes requires some *major* changes, and AFAIK none of the core developers are planning on working on it any time soon (and since the hash index could is somewhat isolated, it might be a good place to start). There's also plenty of work remaining to be done for replication -- the pgreplication project could use some help. You could also improve PL/pgSQL -- there are a bunch of relatively minor improvements that could be made. You could also try implementing bitmap indexes, or improving GEQO (the genetic-algorithm based query optimizer). HTH, Neil -- Neil Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] || PGP Key ID: DB3C29FC ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Correlation in cost_index()
Manfred Koizar [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: AFAICS (part of) the real problem is in costsize.c:cost_index() where IO_cost is calculated from min_IO_cost, pages_fetched, random_page_cost, and indexCorrelation. The current implementation uses indexCorrelation^2 to interpolate between min_IO_cost and max_IO_cost, which IMHO gives results that are too close to max_IO_cost. The indexCorrelation^2 algorithm was only a quick hack with no theory behind it :-(. I've wanted to find some better method to put in there, but have not had any time to research the problem. As nobody knows how each of these proposals performs in real life under different conditions, I suggest to leave the current implementation in, add all three algorithms, and supply a GUC variable to select a cost function. I don't think it's really a good idea to expect users to pick among multiple cost functions that *all* have no guiding theory behind them. I'd prefer to see us find a better cost function and use it. Has anyone trawled the database literature on the subject? regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Anyone want to assist with the translation of the Advocacy site?
Justin Clift [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Michael, Michael Paesold wrote: snip Hi Justin, I am from Austria, and I would like to help. I could provide a German translation. The Babelfish's translation is really funny. Machine translation is readable, but it is no advocacy. ;-) I do not really nead an interface, but just tell me in what way you want the texts. Cool. Could you deal with an OpenOffice Calc or M$ Excel file having the lines of English text in one column, and doing the German translation into a second column? That might be easiest, and will allow a cut-n-paste of the German version straight into the database backend. Sound workable to you? Spreadsheet sounds great. I use M$. Perhaps you can group the items in categories, at least navigation and text. So I know where the text will be put on the website. The translation could be different depending on how a word is used. E.g. it is quite common on German websites to use the same English word Home for the main page; but you would not use Home in a different context. The exceptable length of a translation depends on the context, too. Best Regards, Michael Paesold ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
[HACKERS] v7.2.3 - tag'd, packaged ... need it checked ...
Looks good from my end, Peter, I pulled the same docs that I pulled for v7.2.2, which I hope is okay? ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Anyone want to assist with the translation of the
Justin wrote: Hi Michael, Michael Paesold wrote: snip Hi Justin, I am from Austria, and I would like to help. I could provide a German translation. The Babelfish's translation is really funny. Machine translation is readable, but it is no advocacy. ;-) I do not really nead an interface, but just tell me in what way you want the texts. Cool. Could you deal with an OpenOffice Calc or M$ Excel file having the lines of English text in one column, and doing the German translation into a second column? Isn't this, um, the sort of thing you might want to put into, um, a, um, database? -- (concatenate 'string aa454 @freenet.carleton.ca) http://cbbrowne.com/info/internet.html you can obvioulsy understand what i'm saying. you're just being pendantic. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Anyone want to assist with the translation of the Advocacy
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Cool. Could you deal with an OpenOffice Calc or M$ Excel file having the lines of English text in one column, and doing the German translation into a second column? Isn't this, um, the sort of thing you might want to put into, um, a, um, database? Sure is. Are there any good options apart from? a) Build an interface for people to translate through b) Allow selected people to connect directly to the database For the present b) is not an option as I don't have the needed access to the postgresql.org database server to be able to adjust the pg_hba.conf file, and a) Would take some decent time and effort to get up and running. A lot longer than cut and pasting into an Excel document then back out again. :-/ Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- (concatenate 'string aa454 @freenet.carleton.ca) http://cbbrowne.com/info/internet.html you can obvioulsy understand what i'm saying. you're just being pendantic. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there. - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
FW: [HACKERS] Advice: Where could I be of help?
Forgot to cc' the list. -Original Message- From: Curtis Faith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 10:59 PM To: Tom Lane Subject: RE: [HACKERS] Advice: Where could I be of help? Tom, Here are the things that I think look interesting: 1) Eliminate unchanged column indices: Prevent index uniqueness checks when UPDATE does not modifying column Small little task that will make a noticeable improvement. I've done this before in a b* tree system, it had a huge impact. Should be pretty isolated. 2) Use indexes for min() and max() or convert to SELECT col FROM tab ORDER BY col DESC LIMIT 1 if appropriate index exists and WHERE clause acceptable - This will probably be a little more involved but I've done this exact optimization in a SQL system 6 or 7 years ago. 3) General cache and i/o optimization: Use bitmaps to fetch heap pages in sequential order Based on my reading of the emails in [performance] it appears to me that there might be huge potential in the caching system. I've worked on these caches and there are some very non-intuitive interactions between database type access and file systems that I believe offer good potential for improvement. I'm basing this assessment on the assumption that the sorts of improvements discussed in the [performance] emails have not been added in subsequent releases. Where does the current code stand? How are we currently doing cache flushing in general and for indices in particular? 4) General index improvements including: Order duplicate index entries by tid for faster heap lookups Add FILLFACTOR to btree index creation I've done the first one before and fill factor is pretty easy, as well. 5) Bitmaps: Implement a bitmap index: Use bitmaps to combine existing indexes I've done something similar, it looks pretty interesting. 6) Improve concurrency of hash indexes (Neil Conway)- Probably more exploration than implementation and fairly isolated problem. Based on past experience, from a bang-for-buck perspective, I'd probably do this in the numerical order. What do you think? I know what I like and can do but I don't really know enough about PostgreSQL's performance weaknesses yet. What are we getting killed on? - Curtis -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Tom Lane Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 6:55 PM To: Curtis Faith Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Advice: Where could I be of help? Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would read the developers corner stuff, the developers FAQ, pick a TODO item, and try a patch. It's that simple. Yup. I'd also suggest starting with something relatively small and localized (the nearby suggestion to fix IN/EXISTS, for example, is probably not a good first project --- and anyway I was going to work on that myself this month ;-)). Neil Conway's thought of working on plpgsql seems a good one to me; and as he says, there's lots of other possibilities. What do you find interesting in the TODO list? regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: FW: [HACKERS] Advice: Where could I be of help?
Based on past experience, from a bang-for-buck perspective, I'd probably do this in the numerical order. What do you think? I know what I like and can do but I don't really know enough about PostgreSQL's performance weaknesses yet. What are we getting killed on? I'm not a developer, but one thing I see come up occasionally around here are planner issues. Sometimes people get really hammered by the planner choices, and aren't provided a very good way to tune it. If you were able to eliminate some worst-case-scenario type situations, that would make the few people who are having problems very happy (I remember one thread in particular seemed nasty). If I remember correctly, some developers don't much like the idea of query hints, and I don't blame them, so you might want to run your ideas by them first. Also, this kind of modification might require significant additions to the statistics system. The planner might be smart, but if it doesn't have any more information you might not be able to get any more out of it. Autovacuum might help with that as well (i.e. the info will be more up to date). Regards, Jeff Davis ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] v7.2.3 - tag'd, packaged ... need it checked ...
Marc G. Fournier [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Looks good from my end, Peter, I pulled the same docs that I pulled for v7.2.2, which I hope is okay? Sources look okay from here. Didn't look at the built-docs files. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] v7.2.3 - tag'd, packaged ... need it checked ...
On Wednesday 02 October 2002 11:52 pm, Tom Lane wrote: Marc G. Fournier [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Looks good from my end, Peter, I pulled the same docs that I pulled for v7.2.2, which I hope is okay? Sources look okay from here. Didn't look at the built-docs files. Builds fine here for RPM usage. Got an odd diff in the triggers regression test: did we drop a NOTICE? If so, the regression output should probably have been changed too. The diff: *** ./expected/triggers.out Sat Jan 15 14:18:23 2000 --- ./results/triggers.out Thu Oct 3 00:16:09 2002 *** *** 75,91 insert into fkeys values (60, '6', 4); ERROR: check_fkeys_pkey2_exist: tuple references non-existing key in fkeys2 delete from pkeys where pkey1 = 30 and pkey2 = '3'; - NOTICE: check_pkeys_fkey_cascade: 1 tuple(s) of fkeys are deleted ERROR: check_fkeys2_fkey_restrict: tuple referenced in fkeys delete from pkeys where pkey1 = 40 and pkey2 = '4'; - NOTICE: check_pkeys_fkey_cascade: 1 tuple(s) of fkeys are deleted - NOTICE: check_pkeys_fkey_cascade: 1 tuple(s) of fkeys2 are deleted update pkeys set pkey1 = 7, pkey2 = '70' where pkey1 = 50 and pkey2 = '5'; - NOTICE: check_pkeys_fkey_cascade: 1 tuple(s) of fkeys are deleted ERROR: check_fkeys2_fkey_restrict: tuple referenced in fkeys update pkeys set pkey1 = 7, pkey2 = '70' where pkey1 = 10 and pkey2 = '1'; - NOTICE: check_pkeys_fkey_cascade: 1 tuple(s) of fkeys are deleted - NOTICE: check_pkeys_fkey_cascade: 1 tuple(s) of fkeys2 are deleted DROP TABLE pkeys; DROP TABLE fkeys; DROP TABLE fkeys2; --- 75,85 Tom, the timestamp and horology passes on RH 7.3 here. Which is nice. Will try 8.0 tomorrow at work. RPMs will be uploaded either tonight or tomorrow morning after I get to work; it will depend on how much upload bandwidth I can get out of this dialup. It appears to be running OK, so I may let it run. -- Lamar Owen WGCR Internet Radio 1 Peter 4:11 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] pg_dump and large files - is this a problem?
At 11:06 AM 2/10/2002 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
It needs to get done; AFAIK no one has stepped up to do it. Do you want
to?
I'll have a look; my main concern at the moment is that off_t and size_t
are totally non-committal as to structure; in particular I can probably
safely assume that they are unsigned, but can I assume that they have the
same endian--ness as int etc?
If so, then will it be valid to just read/write each byte in endian order?
How likely is it that the 64 bit value will actually be implemented as a
structure like:
off_t { int lo; int hi; }
which effectively ignores endian-ness at the 32 bit scale?
Philip Warner| __---_
Albatross Consulting Pty. Ltd. |/ - \
(A.B.N. 75 008 659 498) | /() __---_
Tel: (+61) 0500 83 82 81 | _ \
Fax: (+61) 0500 83 82 82 | ___ |
Http://www.rhyme.com.au |/ \|
|----
PGP key available upon request, | /
and from pgp5.ai.mit.edu:11371 |/
---(end of broadcast)---
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http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] v7.2.3 - tag'd, packaged ... need it checked ...
On Thursday 03 October 2002 12:29 am, Lamar Owen wrote: RPMs will be uploaded either tonight or tomorrow morning after I get to work; it will depend on how much upload bandwidth I can get out of this dialup. It appears to be running OK, so I may let it run. After I get to work. Too many disconnects; too low a throughput. -- Lamar Owen WGCR Internet Radio 1 Peter 4:11 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Advice: Where could I be of help?
Tom Lane wrote: Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would read the developers corner stuff, the developers FAQ, pick a TODO item, and try a patch. It's that simple. Yup. I'd also suggest starting with something relatively small and localized (the nearby suggestion to fix IN/EXISTS, for example, is probably not a good first project --- and anyway I was going to work on that myself this month ;-)). That's good news. I am getting a little embarassed because I had to explain the work arounds to someone this week, twice. As it stands now, when is EXISTS quicker than IN. It isn't always, right? -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New PostgreSQL Website : advocacy.postgresql.org
Justin, what does world map with fuzzy points supposed to show ? Oleg On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Justin Clift wrote: Hi all, Over the last few weeks we've put together a new Advocacy and Marketing website for PostgreSQL: http://advocacy.postgresql.org It's now ready for public release. It has the first few case studies, lists the major advantages to PostgreSQL, and provides a place you can point your CIO, CTO, and CEO's at, etc. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Regards, Oleg _ Oleg Bartunov, sci.researcher, hostmaster of AstroNet, Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University (Russia) Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/ phone: +007(095)939-16-83, +007(095)939-23-83 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] (Fwd) Re: Any Oracle 9 users? A test please...
Hello! On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: It is not clear to me; is this its own transaction or a function call? BTW. As reported by my friend: Oracle 8.1.7 (ver.9 behaves the same way): --- cut --- SQL SET TRANSACTION READ WRITE; Transaction set. SQL SELECT TO_CHAR(SYSDATE, 'DD-MM- HH24:MI:SS') FROM DUAL; TO_CHAR(SYSDATE,'MM --- 02-10-2002 10:04:19 SQL -- wait a lot SQL SELECT TO_CHAR(SYSDATE, 'DD-MM- HH24:MI:SS') FROM DUAL; TO_CHAR(SYSDATE,'MM --- 02-10-2002 10:04:27 SQL COMMIT; Commit complete. --- cut --- Any Oracle 9 users out there? I need this run: BEGIN; SELECT CURRENT_TIMESTAMP; -- wait 5 seconds SELECT CURRENT_TIMESTAMP; Are those two timestamps the same? -- WBR, Yury Bokhoncovich, Senior System Administrator, NOC of F1 Group. Phone: +7 (3832) 106228, ext.140, E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unix is like a wigwam -- no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] psqlODBC *nix Makefile (new 7.3 open item?)
-Original Message- From: Peter Eisentraut [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 01 October 2002 21:05 To: Dave Page Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [HACKERS] psqlODBC *nix Makefile (new 7.3 open item?) Dave Page writes: majority of you!) knock up a makefile so the driver will build standalone on *nix systems please? There should be no dependencies on any of the rest of the code - certainly there isn't for the Win32 build. I'm working something out. I'll send it to you tomorrow. Hah. I tried to put something together based on Automake and Libtool, but I must conclude that Libtool is just completely utterly broken. I also considered copying over Makefile.shlib, but that would draw in too many auxiliary files and create a different kind of mess. So what I would suggest right now as the course of action is to copy your local psqlodbc subtree to its old location under interfaces/ and try to hook things together that way. Perhaps one of these days we should convert Makefile.shlib into a shell script that we can deploy more easily to different projects. Thanks for trying Peter. Are we going to get the same problems for the other bits (libpq++?) that we've ripped out? Is anyone looking at them, or have they just been dumped on Gborg forgotten? Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New PostgreSQL Website : advocacy.postgresql.org
Hi Oleg, It's supposed to show roughly where everyone is. Based mostly on Vince's map from the developer site, but this one is really easy to update. If you're not located on the map correctly (probably hard to tell, but if you're wrong on Vince's map then you're wrong on this one) it can be updated pronto. :) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Oleg Bartunov wrote: Justin, what does world map with fuzzy points supposed to show ? Oleg On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Justin Clift wrote: Hi all, Over the last few weeks we've put together a new Advocacy and Marketing website for PostgreSQL: http://advocacy.postgresql.org It's now ready for public release. It has the first few case studies, lists the major advantages to PostgreSQL, and provides a place you can point your CIO, CTO, and CEO's at, etc. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Regards, Oleg _ Oleg Bartunov, sci.researcher, hostmaster of AstroNet, Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University (Russia) Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/ phone: +007(095)939-16-83, +007(095)939-23-83 -- My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there. - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New PostgreSQL Website : advocacy.postgresql.org
On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Justin Clift wrote: Hi Oleg, It's supposed to show roughly where everyone is. Based mostly on Vince's map from the developer site, but this one is really easy to update. If you're not located on the map correctly (probably hard to tell, but if you're wrong on Vince's map then you're wrong on this one) it can be updated pronto. Look for an updated map shortly. I have everyone's coordinates in and it looks like the tools build ok. I should have at least a day or two break from the activities in Congress (re. internet broadcasting), so I want to get the new one up asap and before things bust loose again. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking http://www.camping-usa.com http://www.cloudninegifts.com http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New PostgreSQL Website : advocacy.postgresql.org
On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Oleg Bartunov wrote: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Vince Vielhaber wrote: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Justin Clift wrote: Hi Oleg, It's supposed to show roughly where everyone is. Based mostly on Vince's map from the developer site, but this one is really easy to update. If you're not located on the map correctly (probably hard to tell, but if you're wrong on Vince's map then you're wrong on this one) it can be updated pronto. Look for an updated map shortly. I have everyone's coordinates in and it looks like the tools build ok. I should have at least a day or two break from the activities in Congress (re. internet broadcasting), so I want to get the new one up asap and before things bust loose again. Coordinates seems ok (Moscow), I asked if map should present something more like old Bruce's map with photos. I'm using Mozilla and see just a picture of the world :-) old Bruce's map ??? No idea what you're referring to. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking http://www.camping-usa.com http://www.cloudninegifts.com http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Please, applay patch to current CVS
Your patch has been added to the PostgreSQL unapplied patches list at: http://candle.pha.pa.us/cgi-bin/pgpatches I will try to apply it within the next 48 hours. --- Teodor Sigaev wrote: This is small README fix for contrib/intarray. Thank you. -- Teodor Sigaev [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ application/gzip is not supported, skipping... ] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] (Fwd) Re: Any Oracle 9 users? A test please...
Yury Bokhoncovich [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As reported by my friend: Oracle 8.1.7 (ver.9 behaves the same way): [ to_char(sysdate) advances in a transaction ] Now I'm really confused; this directly contradicts the report of Oracle 8's behavior that we had earlier from Roland Roberts. Can someone explain why the different results? regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New PostgreSQL Website : advocacy.postgresql.org
On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Vince Vielhaber wrote: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Oleg Bartunov wrote: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Vince Vielhaber wrote: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Justin Clift wrote: Hi Oleg, It's supposed to show roughly where everyone is. Based mostly on Vince's map from the developer site, but this one is really easy to update. If you're not located on the map correctly (probably hard to tell, but if you're wrong on Vince's map then you're wrong on this one) it can be updated pronto. Look for an updated map shortly. I have everyone's coordinates in and it looks like the tools build ok. I should have at least a day or two break from the activities in Congress (re. internet broadcasting), so I want to get the new one up asap and before things bust loose again. Coordinates seems ok (Moscow), I asked if map should present something more like old Bruce's map with photos. I'm using Mozilla and see just a picture of the world :-) old Bruce's map ??? No idea what you're referring to. I may be wrong with author of the map, but it's there http://developer.postgresql.org/index.php Vince. Regards, Oleg _ Oleg Bartunov, sci.researcher, hostmaster of AstroNet, Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University (Russia) Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/ phone: +007(095)939-16-83, +007(095)939-23-83 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New PostgreSQL Website : advocacy.postgresql.org
On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Oleg Bartunov wrote: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Vince Vielhaber wrote: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Oleg Bartunov wrote: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Vince Vielhaber wrote: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Justin Clift wrote: Hi Oleg, It's supposed to show roughly where everyone is. Based mostly on Vince's map from the developer site, but this one is really easy to update. If you're not located on the map correctly (probably hard to tell, but if you're wrong on Vince's map then you're wrong on this one) it can be updated pronto. Look for an updated map shortly. I have everyone's coordinates in and it looks like the tools build ok. I should have at least a day or two break from the activities in Congress (re. internet broadcasting), so I want to get the new one up asap and before things bust loose again. Coordinates seems ok (Moscow), I asked if map should present something more like old Bruce's map with photos. I'm using Mozilla and see just a picture of the world :-) old Bruce's map ??? No idea what you're referring to. I may be wrong with author of the map, but it's there http://developer.postgresql.org/index.php Jan's map. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking http://www.camping-usa.com http://www.cloudninegifts.com http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] (Fwd) Re: Any Oracle 9 users? A test please...
Tom Lane wrote: Yury Bokhoncovich [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As reported by my friend: Oracle 8.1.7 (ver.9 behaves the same way): [ to_char(sysdate) advances in a transaction ] Now I'm really confused; this directly contradicts the report of Oracle 8's behavior that we had earlier from Roland Roberts. Can someone explain why the different results? Roland used an anonymous PL/SQL procedure: SQL begin 2 insert into rbr_foo select sysdate from dual; [...wait about 10 seconds...] 3 insert into rbr_foo select sysdate from dual; 4 end; 5 / PL/SQL procedure successfully completed. SQL select * from rbr_foo; Oracle isn't processing those statements interactively. SQL*Plus is waiting on the / to send the PL/SQL block to the database. I suspect its not going to take Oracle more than a second to insert a row... Mike Mascari [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] (Fwd) Re: Any Oracle 9 users? A test please...
Mike Mascari wrote: Tom Lane wrote: Yury Bokhoncovich [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As reported by my friend: Oracle 8.1.7 (ver.9 behaves the same way): [ to_char(sysdate) advances in a transaction ] Now I'm really confused; this directly contradicts the report of Oracle 8's behavior that we had earlier from Roland Roberts. Can someone explain why the different results? Roland used an anonymous PL/SQL procedure: SQL begin 2 insert into rbr_foo select sysdate from dual; [...wait about 10 seconds...] 3 insert into rbr_foo select sysdate from dual; 4 end; 5 / PL/SQL procedure successfully completed. SQL select * from rbr_foo; Oracle isn't processing those statements interactively. SQL*Plus is waiting on the / to send the PL/SQL block to the database. I suspect its not going to take Oracle more than a second to insert a row... Oh, I understand now. He delayed when entering the function body, but that has no effect when he sends it. Can someone add an explicit sleep in the function body and try that? -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] (Fwd) Re: Any Oracle 9 users? A test please...
Bruce Momjian wrote: Mike Mascari wrote: Oracle isn't processing those statements interactively. SQL*Plus is waiting on the / to send the PL/SQL block to the database. I suspect its not going to take Oracle more than a second to insert a row... Oh, I understand now. He delayed when entering the function body, but that has no effect when he sends it. Can someone add an explicit sleep in the function body and try that? SQL create table foo (a date); Table created. SQL begin 2 insert into foo select sysdate from dual; 3 dbms_lock.sleep(5); 4 insert into foo select sysdate from dual; 5 end; 6 / PL/SQL procedure successfully completed. SQL select to_char(a, 'HH24:MI:SS') from foo; TO_CHAR( 11:31:02 11:31:07 Mike Mascari [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] (Fwd) Re: Any Oracle 9 users? A test please...
Mike Mascari wrote: Bruce Momjian wrote: Mike Mascari wrote: Oracle isn't processing those statements interactively. SQL*Plus is waiting on the / to send the PL/SQL block to the database. I suspect its not going to take Oracle more than a second to insert a row... Oh, I understand now. He delayed when entering the function body, but that has no effect when he sends it. Can someone add an explicit sleep in the function body and try that? SQL create table foo (a date); Table created. SQL begin 2 insert into foo select sysdate from dual; 3 dbms_lock.sleep(5); 4 insert into foo select sysdate from dual; 5 end; 6 / PL/SQL procedure successfully completed. SQL select to_char(a, 'HH24:MI:SS') from foo; TO_CHAR( 11:31:02 11:31:07 OK, two requests. First, would you create a _named_ PL/SQL function with those contents and try it again. Also, would you test CURRENT_TIMESTAMP too? -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] pg_dump and large files - is this a problem?
Philip Warner wrote: At 09:42 AM 2/10/2002 +1000, Philip Warner wrote: Yes, and do the peripheral stuff to support old archives etc. Does silence mean people agree? Does it also mean someone is doing this (eg. whoever did the off_t support)? Or does it mean somebody else needs to do it? Added to open items: Fix pg_dump to handle 64-bit off_t offsets for custom format -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 P O S T G R E S Q L 7 . 3 O P E NI T E M S Current at ftp://momjian.postgresql.org/pub/postgresql/open_items. Source Code Changes --- Schema handling - ready? interfaces? client apps? Drop column handling - ready for all clients, apps? Fix BeOS, QNX4 ports Fix AIX large file compile failure of 2002-09-11 (Andreas) Get bison upgrade on postgresql.org for ecpg only (Marc) Fix vacuum btree bug (Tom) Fix client apps for autocommit = off Change log_min_error_statement to be off by default (Gavin) Fix return tuple counts/oid/tag for rules, SPI Add schema dump option to pg_dump Make SET not start a transaction with autocommit off, document it Remove GRANT EXECUTE to all /contrib functions? Change NUMERIC to have 16 digit precision Handle CREATE CONSTRAINT TRIGGER without FROM in loads from old db's Fix pg_dump to handle 64-bit off_t offsets for custom format On Going Security audit Documentation Changes - Document need to add permissions to loaded functions and languages Move documation to gborg for moved projects 7.2.X - CLOG WAL checkpoint Linux mktime() ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] small patch for vacuumlo
Your patch has been added to the PostgreSQL unapplied patches list at: http://candle.pha.pa.us/cgi-bin/pgpatches I will try to apply it within the next 48 hours. --- Mario Weilguni wrote: It's just a cosmetic change, fixes the help screen. Should be applied in /contrib/vacuumlo Regards, Mario Weilguni [ Attachment, skipping... ] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] (Fwd) Re: Any Oracle 9 users? A test please...
Bruce Momjian wrote: OK, two requests. First, would you create a _named_ PL/SQL function with those contents and try it again. Also, would you test CURRENT_TIMESTAMP too? SQL CREATE TABLE foo(a date); Table created. As a PROCEDURE: SQL CREATE PROCEDURE test 2 AS 3 BEGIN 4 INSERT INTO foo SELECT SYSDATE FROM dual; 5 dbms_lock.sleep(5); 6 INSERT INTO foo SELECT SYSDATE FROM dual; 7 END; 8 / Procedure created. SQL execute test; PL/SQL procedure successfully completed. SQL select to_char(a, 'HH24:MI:SS') from foo; TO_CHAR( 12:01:07 12:01:12 As a FUNCTION: SQL CREATE FUNCTION mydiff 2 RETURN NUMBER 3 IS 4 time1 DATE; 5 time2 DATE; 6 c NUMBER; 7 BEGIN 8 SELECT SYSDATE 9 INTO time1 10 FROM DUAL; 11 SELECT COUNT(*) 12 INTO c 13 FROM bar, bar, bar, bar, bar, bar, bar, bar; 14 SELECT SYSDATE 15 INTO time2 16 FROM DUAL; 17 RETURN (time2 - time1); 18 END; 19 / Function created. SQL select mydiff FROM dual; MYDIFF -- .34722 I can't test the use of CURRENT_TIMESTAMP because I have Oracle 8, not 9. Mike Mascari [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: AIX compilation problems (was Re: [HACKERS] Proposal ...)
Attached is a patch to fix the mb linking problems on AIX. As a nice side effect it reduces the duplicate symbol warnings to linking libpq.so and libecpg.so (all shlibs that are not postmaster loadable modules). Can you explain the method behind your patch? Have you tried -bnogc? -bnogc would (probably) have been the correct switch reading the man page, but the method was previously not good since it involved the following: 1. create a static postgres executable from the SUBSYS.o's 2. create an exports file from above 3. recreate a shared postgres executable This naturally had a cyclic dependency, that could not properly be reflected in the Makefile (thus a second make sometimes left you with a static postgres unless you manually removed postgres.imp). Now it does: postgres.imp: $(OBJS) create a temporary SUBSYS.o from all $(OBJS) create a postgres.imp from SUBSYS.o rm temporary SUBSYS.o postgres: postgres.imp link a shared postgres A second change was to move the import and export files to the end of the link line, then the linker knows not to throw a duplicate symbol warning, and keeps all symbols that are mentioned in the exports file (== -bnogc restricted to $(OBJS) symbols). Thus now only libpq.so and libecpg.so still show the duplicate symbol warnings since their link line should actually not include postgres.imp . I did not see how to make a difference between loadable modules (need postgres.imp) and interface libraries (do not need postgres.imp), but since the resulting libs are ok, I left it at that. Note that this behavior did thus not change. I tested both gcc and xlc including regression tests. What happens with this now ? Thanx Andreas mb_link_patch4.gz Description: mb_link_patch4.gz ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
[HACKERS] DBD::PG - any works to be compatile with 7.3 ?
Any news about new DBD::Pg ? It's a stopper for many projects based on perl interface to use 7.3. Regards, Oleg _ Oleg Bartunov, sci.researcher, hostmaster of AstroNet, Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University (Russia) Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/ phone: +007(095)939-16-83, +007(095)939-23-83 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] (Fwd) Re: Any Oracle 9 users? A test please...
Mike Mascari [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: SQL CREATE PROCEDURE test 2 AS 3 BEGIN 4 INSERT INTO foo SELECT SYSDATE FROM dual; 5 dbms_lock.sleep(5); 6 INSERT INTO foo SELECT SYSDATE FROM dual; 7 END; 8 / Procedure created. SQL execute test; PL/SQL procedure successfully completed. SQL select to_char(a, 'HH24:MI:SS') from foo; TO_CHAR( 12:01:07 12:01:12 What fun. So in reality, SYSDATE on Oracle behaves like timeofday(): true current time. That's certainly not a spec-compliant interpretation for CURRENT_TIMESTAMP :-( Has anyone done the corresponding experiments on the other DBMSes to identify exactly when they allow CURRENT_TIMESTAMP to advance? regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] (Fwd) Re: Any Oracle 9 users? A test please...
I received this via personal email. I assume the author wants it shared. It shows CURRENT_TIMESTAMP changing within a function! --- Steve Hulcher wrote: Oracle 9i. Hope this is helpful --SQL RUN /* CREATE TABLE foo (a DATE); CREATE OR REPLACE PROCEDURE test AS BEGIN INSERT INTO foo SELECT CURRENT_TIMESTAMP FROM dual; dbms_lock.sleep(5); INSERT INTO foo SELECT CURRENT_TIMESTAMP FROM dual; END; / show errors; */ DELETE FROM foo; EXECUTE test; SELECT TO_CHAR(a, '-MM-DD HH24:MI:SS') FROM foo; --RESULTS 0 rows deleted. PL/SQL procedure successfully completed. TO_CHAR(A,'-MM- --- 2002-10-02 11:33:12 2002-10-02 11:33:17 -Original Message- From: Mike Mascari [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 11:20 AM To: Bruce Momjian Cc: Yury Bokhoncovich; Dan Langille; Roland Roberts; PostgreSQL-development Subject: Re: [HACKERS] (Fwd) Re: Any Oracle 9 users? A test please... Bruce Momjian wrote: OK, two requests. First, would you create a _named_ PL/SQL function with those contents and try it again. Also, would you test CURRENT_TIMESTAMP too? SQL CREATE TABLE foo(a date); Table created. As a PROCEDURE: SQL CREATE PROCEDURE test 2 AS 3 BEGIN 4 INSERT INTO foo SELECT SYSDATE FROM dual; 5 dbms_lock.sleep(5); 6 INSERT INTO foo SELECT SYSDATE FROM dual; 7 END; 8 / Procedure created. SQL execute test; PL/SQL procedure successfully completed. SQL select to_char(a, 'HH24:MI:SS') from foo; TO_CHAR( 12:01:07 12:01:12 As a FUNCTION: SQL CREATE FUNCTION mydiff 2 RETURN NUMBER 3 IS 4 time1 DATE; 5 time2 DATE; 6 c NUMBER; 7 BEGIN 8 SELECT SYSDATE 9 INTO time1 10 FROM DUAL; 11 SELECT COUNT(*) 12 INTO c 13 FROM bar, bar, bar, bar, bar, bar, bar, bar; 14 SELECT SYSDATE 15 INTO time2 16 FROM DUAL; 17 RETURN (time2 - time1); 18 END; 19 / Function created. SQL select mydiff FROM dual; MYDIFF -- .34722 I can't test the use of CURRENT_TIMESTAMP because I have Oracle 8, not 9. Mike Mascari [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Diff for reindexdb
Your patch has been added to the PostgreSQL unapplied patches list at: http://candle.pha.pa.us/cgi-bin/pgpatches I will try to apply it within the next 48 hours. --- Mario Weilguni wrote: This small patch adds a Makefile for /contrib/reindexdb/ and renames the README to README.reindexdb. Regards, Mario Weilguni [ Attachment, skipping... ] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Advice: Where could I be of help?
I would read the developers corner stuff, the developers FAQ, pick a TODO item, and try a patch. It's that simple. Feel free to contact me for specific advice. I am on chat at: AIM bmomjian ICQ 151255111 Yahoo bmomjian MSN [EMAIL PROTECTED] IRC #postgresql vis efnet --- Curtis Faith wrote: All, I'd like to help work on some 7.4 features, however, since you've not seen my name before, I'm obviously new to the list and the org. I really like working on speed optimizations and rewrites. I have 15 years experience with C++-based systems and databases, and have worked on commercial database engines (i.e. indexing and query execution systems), sql execution and optimization, various lex and yacc based compilers and parsers. I've generally been able to get code to perform as well or better than competitive systems with similar functionality, and usually have been able to beat other code by 3 to 10 X. My unix experience is reasonable but I'm not an expert. Any suggestions for where to start? I don't mind digging into very hairy code or large problems. I'm willing to run the risk of a patch not being accepted (for large changes) since I'll make sure whatever I do is well known to those who will do the accept/deny and the approach approved of ahead of time. Since I'm new here, I'm thinking a problem that would not otherwise get handled by the experienced group would be the best place to start. Where is the system especially slow? I've read the TODO's, and the last five months of the archives for this list, so I have some general ideas. I've also had a lot experience marketing to I.T. organizations so I'd be happy to help out on the Product Marketing for PostgreSQL advocacy, i.e. developing a marketing strategy, press releases, etc. - Curtis Curtis Faith Principal Galt Capital, LLP -- Galt Capitalhttp://www.galtcapital.com 12 Wimmelskafts Gade Post Office Box 7549 voice: 340.776.0144 Charlotte Amalie, St. Thomasfax: 340.776.0244 United States Virgin Islands 00801 cell: 340.643.5368 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] (Fwd) Re: Any Oracle 9 users? A test please...
Mike Mascari [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't test the use of CURRENT_TIMESTAMP because I have Oracle 8, not 9. What about NOW()? It should be available in Oracle 8? Is it the same as SYSDATE? Regards, Michael Paesold ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] (Fwd) Re: Any Oracle 9 users? A test please...
Michael Paesold wrote: What about NOW()? It should be available in Oracle 8? Is it the same as SYSDATE? Unless I'm missing something, NOW() neither works in Oracle 8 nor appears in the Oracle 9i online documentation: http://download-west.oracle.com/otndoc/oracle9i/901_doc/server.901/a90125/functions2.htm#80856 Mike Mascari [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Advice: Where could I be of help?
Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would read the developers corner stuff, the developers FAQ, pick a TODO item, and try a patch. It's that simple. Yup. I'd also suggest starting with something relatively small and localized (the nearby suggestion to fix IN/EXISTS, for example, is probably not a good first project --- and anyway I was going to work on that myself this month ;-)). Neil Conway's thought of working on plpgsql seems a good one to me; and as he says, there's lots of other possibilities. What do you find interesting in the TODO list? regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] (Fwd) Re: Any Oracle 9 users? A test please...
Mike Mascari [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Paesold wrote: What about NOW()? It should be available in Oracle 8? Is it the same as SYSDATE? Unless I'm missing something, NOW() neither works in Oracle 8 nor appears in the Oracle 9i online documentation: http://download-west.oracle.com/otndoc/oracle9i/901_doc/server.901/a90125/fu nctions2.htm#80856 Mike Mascari I am sorry, if that is so. I thought it was available, but obviously, I was wrong. Regards, Michael ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] pg7.3b1
Ok, finally had time to narrow this down. Here's the simplified script that will reproduce this (this sequence reroduces on my system using 7.3b2): \echo BEGIN tst.sql create table pp ( x integer , i text ); create view p as select * from pp where i is null; comment on view p is 'This is a comment.'; create rule p_ins as on insert to p do instead insert into pp values ( new.x , null ); comment on rule p_ins is 'insert to p goes to pp'; \echo END tst.sql On 26 Sep 2002, Rod Taylor wrote: On Thu, 2002-09-26 at 16:46, Laurette Cisneros wrote: I am so glad that postgres now keeps track of relationships between rule, views, functions, tables, etc. I've had to re-do all my creation and drop scripts but this is definitely for the better. During my testing of my scripts, I have come across this message: psql:/u1/cvs73/DataBase/Config/Schema/logconfig.sql:142: WARNING: Relcache reference leak: relation positions has refcnt 1 instead of 0 What does this indicate? Someone (probably me) made a mistake and forgot to release a cache handle. Do you happen to have a sequence of commands that can reproduce this? -- Laurette Cisneros The Database Group (510) 420-3137 NextBus Information Systems, Inc. www.nextbus.com -- Do you know where your bus is? ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Anyone want to assist with the translation of the Advocacy site?
Justin Clift [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, Have just put together a prototype page to show off the multi-lingual capabilities that the Advocacy sites' infrastructure has: http://advocacy.postgresql.org/?lang=de The text was translated to german via Altavista's Babelfish, so it's probably only about 80% accurate, but it conveys the concept. Is anyone interested in translating the English version to other languages? All Latin based languages should be fine (German, French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Turkish, Greek, etc). If there's strong interest, then an interface to let volunteers translators do it easily can be constructed over the next fortnight or so. Hi Justin, I am from Austria, and I would like to help. I could provide a German translation. The Babelfish's translation is really funny. Machine translation is readable, but it is no advocacy. ;-) I do not really nead an interface, but just tell me in what way you want the texts. Best Regards, Michael Paesold ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Anyone want to assist with the translation of the Advocacy
Hi Michael, Michael Paesold wrote: snip Hi Justin, I am from Austria, and I would like to help. I could provide a German translation. The Babelfish's translation is really funny. Machine translation is readable, but it is no advocacy. ;-) I do not really nead an interface, but just tell me in what way you want the texts. Cool. Could you deal with an OpenOffice Calc or M$ Excel file having the lines of English text in one column, and doing the German translation into a second column? That might be easiest, and will allow a cut-n-paste of the German version straight into the database backend. Sound workable to you? :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Best Regards, Michael Paesold -- My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there. - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
[HACKERS] Anyone want to assist with the translation of the Advocacy site?
Hi everyone, Have just put together a prototype page to show off the multi-lingual capabilities that the Advocacy sites' infrastructure has: http://advocacy.postgresql.org/?lang=de The text was translated to german via Altavista's Babelfish, so it's probably only about 80% accurate, but it conveys the concept. Is anyone interested in translating the English version to other languages? All Latin based languages should be fine (German, French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Turkish, Greek, etc). If there's strong interest, then an interface to let volunteers translators do it easily can be constructed over the next fortnight or so. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there. - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
