Re: [Phono-L] (no subject)
HI ALL I THINK CHARLEY IS BACK IN BUSINESS HE HAD ADVERTISED IN THE GROOVE ABOUT THAT I BELIEVE -Original Message- From: Vinyl Visions vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wed, Nov 10, 2010 11:02 pm Subject: [Phono-L] (no subject) Does anyone have any spare parts for a dancing rastus or just the top parts with chickens, boxers, etc. ? Also, since Charlie Weatherbee quit making repros, does anyone have patterns for them? Curt ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder
I appreciate all of the ideas and help. These are exactly the issues that I was contemplating on how to make it look right. I even thought of cutting rivets in half, JB welding the part to the horn and then JB welding each half of the rivets back in. Once it was painted, you would not be able to tell the diff. Using old fashioned rivets is not easy, since you need something solid to round them over inside the horn. I may just try to repair the damage to the existing part first. I try to think of all of the issues before I begin any repair. Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 22:59:34 -0800 From: smst...@gmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder Is it really so bad the rivets must come out? Even if the metal is split I'll bet you could close it up. This sounds like one of those jobs you wish you left alone. Rivet drilling can go wrong in a heartbeat. If you can drill the outside head with a matching bit ( a little smaller that the rivet head) but do not drill thru'. Be very careful. Just thin the rivet. Next with a smaller bit drill thru' the center but not through the rivet. Take a punch and gently tap it out. The rivet head should break apart at the shank when you tap it. If not thin the head out more so. Small brass rivets will be your best bet. I'd use nuts and bolts over pop rivets.You might give thought if you use brass rivets to drill the shank with a small bit. That way when you set them the rivet should give with less force. If you use nuts and bolts use brass. File the nuts down very thin and even file them round. Cut the screws just long enough so when you bolt it together the screw should not extend past the thin nut. Using brass you can fill the slotted head in with solder. Either use rub n buff or just black model paint. It is un-doable if need be and will look better than you think. Mike Stitt Good luck. Mike Stitt On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 10:10 PM, Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu wrote: It was probably a riveting tool with a long reach. You could pop rivet them but that would not look quite right from the inside. Anyone else know more about riveting? Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Vinyl Visions Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 10:58 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder I've been afraid to remove the rivets, since I don't know what method they used originally to put the rivets in without distorting the horn... any ideas? From: lhera...@bu.edu To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 10:00:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder Have you tried drilling out the rivets and taking the part to a musical Instrument repair shop? They may be able to straighten it out. Then you can rivet it back on. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Vinyl Visions Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 8:30 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder I don't know what you call it exactly, but does anyone sell replacements for the brass ball holder that is riveted to a cygnet horn? If so, how do you go about replacing it? Mine was torn up by someone trying to replace the ball. Curt ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder
I've been following this thread with interest. Nice description here. Brass hardware that you mentioned (2-56 thread might be appropriate for this), and solder are all relatively soft materials and would give that nice balance between getting as close as you can to a factory look, and yet be sturdy enough to know it will safely support the weight. What's the rub n buff that you mentioned? Andy Baron On Nov 10, 2010, at 11:59 PM, Mike Stitt wrote: Is it really so bad the rivets must come out? Even if the metal is split I'll bet you could close it up. This sounds like one of those jobs you wish you left alone. Rivet drilling can go wrong in a heartbeat. If you can drill the outside head with a matching bit ( a little smaller that the rivet head) but do not drill thru'. Be very careful. Just thin the rivet. Next with a smaller bit drill thru' the center but not through the rivet. Take a punch and gently tap it out. The rivet head should break apart at the shank when you tap it. If not thin the head out more so. Small brass rivets will be your best bet. I'd use nuts and bolts over pop rivets.You might give thought if you use brass rivets to drill the shank with a small bit. That way when you set them the rivet should give with less force. If you use nuts and bolts use brass. File the nuts down very thin and even file them round. Cut the screws just long enough so when you bolt it together the screw should not extend past the thin nut. Using brass you can fill the slotted head in with solder. Either use rub n buff or just black model paint. It is un-doable if need be and will look better than you think. Mike Stitt Good luck. Mike Stitt On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 10:10 PM, Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu wrote: It was probably a riveting tool with a long reach. You could pop rivet them but that would not look quite right from the inside. Anyone else know more about riveting? Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org ] On Behalf Of Vinyl Visions Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 10:58 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder I've been afraid to remove the rivets, since I don't know what method they used originally to put the rivets in without distorting the horn... any ideas? From: lhera...@bu.edu To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 10:00:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder Have you tried drilling out the rivets and taking the part to a musical Instrument repair shop? They may be able to straighten it out. Then you can rivet it back on. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org ] On Behalf Of Vinyl Visions Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 8:30 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder I don't know what you call it exactly, but does anyone sell replacements for the brass ball holder that is riveted to a cygnet horn? If so, how do you go about replacing it? Mine was torn up by someone trying to replace the ball. Curt ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder
Does life with antiques exist without rub n buff? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-7jEPKQmgI On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Andrew Baron a...@popyrus.com wrote: I've been following this thread with interest. Nice description here. Brass hardware that you mentioned (2-56 thread might be appropriate for this), and solder are all relatively soft materials and would give that nice balance between getting as close as you can to a factory look, and yet be sturdy enough to know it will safely support the weight. What's the rub n buff that you mentioned? Andy Baron On Nov 10, 2010, at 11:59 PM, Mike Stitt wrote: Is it really so bad the rivets must come out? Even if the metal is split I'll bet you could close it up. This sounds like one of those jobs you wish you left alone. Rivet drilling can go wrong in a heartbeat. If you can drill the outside head with a matching bit ( a little smaller that the rivet head) but do not drill thru'. Be very careful. Just thin the rivet. Next with a smaller bit drill thru' the center but not through the rivet. Take a punch and gently tap it out. The rivet head should break apart at the shank when you tap it. If not thin the head out more so. Small brass rivets will be your best bet. I'd use nuts and bolts over pop rivets.You might give thought if you use brass rivets to drill the shank with a small bit. That way when you set them the rivet should give with less force. If you use nuts and bolts use brass. File the nuts down very thin and even file them round. Cut the screws just long enough so when you bolt it together the screw should not extend past the thin nut. Using brass you can fill the slotted head in with solder. Either use rub n buff or just black model paint. It is un-doable if need be and will look better than you think. Mike Stitt Good luck. Mike Stitt On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 10:10 PM, Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu wrote: It was probably a riveting tool with a long reach. You could pop rivet them but that would not look quite right from the inside. Anyone else know more about riveting? Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Vinyl Visions Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 10:58 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder I've been afraid to remove the rivets, since I don't know what method they used originally to put the rivets in without distorting the horn... any ideas? From: lhera...@bu.edu To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 10:00:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder Have you tried drilling out the rivets and taking the part to a musical Instrument repair shop? They may be able to straighten it out. Then you can rivet it back on. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org ] On Behalf Of Vinyl Visions Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 8:30 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder I don't know what you call it exactly, but does anyone sell replacements for the brass ball holder that is riveted to a cygnet horn? If so, how do you go about replacing it? Mine was torn up by someone trying to replace the ball. Curt ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder
Thanks, Mike for this link. It does look like this product would be at home in the cosmetic restoration tool kit. Best, Andy On Nov 11, 2010, at 9:44 AM, Mike Stitt wrote: Does life with antiques exist without rub n buff? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-7jEPKQmgI On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Andrew Baron a...@popyrus.com wrote: I've been following this thread with interest. Nice description here. Brass hardware that you mentioned (2-56 thread might be appropriate for this), and solder are all relatively soft materials and would give that nice balance between getting as close as you can to a factory look, and yet be sturdy enough to know it will safely support the weight. What's the rub n buff that you mentioned? Andy Baron On Nov 10, 2010, at 11:59 PM, Mike Stitt wrote: Is it really so bad the rivets must come out? Even if the metal is split I'll bet you could close it up. This sounds like one of those jobs you wish you left alone. Rivet drilling can go wrong in a heartbeat. If you can drill the outside head with a matching bit ( a little smaller that the rivet head) but do not drill thru'. Be very careful. Just thin the rivet. Next with a smaller bit drill thru' the center but not through the rivet. Take a punch and gently tap it out. The rivet head should break apart at the shank when you tap it. If not thin the head out more so. Small brass rivets will be your best bet. I'd use nuts and bolts over pop rivets.You might give thought if you use brass rivets to drill the shank with a small bit. That way when you set them the rivet should give with less force. If you use nuts and bolts use brass. File the nuts down very thin and even file them round. Cut the screws just long enough so when you bolt it together the screw should not extend past the thin nut. Using brass you can fill the slotted head in with solder. Either use rub n buff or just black model paint. It is un-doable if need be and will look better than you think. Mike Stitt Good luck. Mike Stitt On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 10:10 PM, Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu wrote: It was probably a riveting tool with a long reach. You could pop rivet them but that would not look quite right from the inside. Anyone else know more about riveting? Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org ] On Behalf Of Vinyl Visions Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 10:58 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder I've been afraid to remove the rivets, since I don't know what method they used originally to put the rivets in without distorting the horn... any ideas? From: lhera...@bu.edu To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 10:00:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder Have you tried drilling out the rivets and taking the part to a musical Instrument repair shop? They may be able to straighten it out. Then you can rivet it back on. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org ] On Behalf Of Vinyl Visions Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 8:30 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder I don't know what you call it exactly, but does anyone sell replacements for the brass ball holder that is riveted to a cygnet horn? If so, how do you go about replacing it? Mine was torn up by someone trying to replace the ball. Curt ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder
Hi Andy and all, From what you can see on the video, Rub n Buff or similar rub on metallic waxes are great for restorations. I have used it to touch up or redo the stripes on Edison horns. It subtlely restores the original look. A friend and I recently used it on the gold tonearm of his Victrola 18, which had some obvious wear on the elbow near the reproducer. After we finished, you couldn't tell it was done. Note: Rub n Buff or other metallic waxes look good, but are not permanent without using a fixative. I use Krylon Matte finish art fixative to topcoat it after I'm through. It is transparent and does not show up after it is applied, but makes the metallic finish permanent. You should experiment first, before using it on an important piece. Another use for the fixative is this: if you have a black horn, which is scratched, etc. it detracts from the look and I hate to repaint, because you cannot reproduce the japanned finish. I touch up the scratches with a Sharpie marker, then blend the t ouchups in with WD40 - I know, everyone hates WD40, but WD40 sprayed on the black paint restores the original look and blends in the touchups from the Sharpie. I then wipe off the WD40 with a soft cloth and spray the horn with fixative. If you have a horn that is in need of repainting, you might try this procedure, as it has worked well for me. I have restored a Victor R horn, a Cygnet horn that was really scratched bad and an Edison black flowered horn that now looks pristine. Just an idea... take it for what it's worth. Curt From: a...@popyrus.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 09:35:15 -0700 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder I've been following this thread with interest. Nice description here. Brass hardware that you mentioned (2-56 thread might be appropriate for this), and solder are all relatively soft materials and would give that nice balance between getting as close as you can to a factory look, and yet be sturdy enough to know it will safely support the weight. What's the rub n buff that you mentioned? Andy Baron On Nov 10, 2010, at 11:59 PM, Mike Stitt wrote: Is it really so bad the rivets must come out? Even if the metal is split I'll bet you could close it up. This sounds like one of those jobs you wish you left alone. Rivet drilling can go wrong in a heartbeat. If you can drill the outside head with a matching bit ( a little smaller that the rivet head) but do not drill thru'. Be very careful. Just thin the rivet. Next with a smaller bit drill thru' the center but not through the rivet. Take a punch and gently tap it out. The rivet head should break apart at the shank when you tap it. If not thin the head out more so. Small brass rivets will be your best bet. I'd use nuts and bolts over pop rivets.You might give thought if you use brass rivets to drill the shank with a small bit. That way when you set them the rivet should give with less force. If you use nuts and bolts use brass. File the nuts down very thin and even file them round. Cut the screws just long enough so when you bolt it together the screw should not extend past the thin nut. Using brass you can fill the slotted head in with solder. Either use rub n buff or just black model paint. It is un-doable if need be and will look better than you think. Mike Stitt Good luck. Mike Stitt On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 10:10 PM, Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu wrote: It was probably a riveting tool with a long reach. You could pop rivet them but that would not look quite right from the inside. Anyone else know more about riveting? Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org ] On Behalf Of Vinyl Visions Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 10:58 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder I've been afraid to remove the rivets, since I don't know what method they used originally to put the rivets in without distorting the horn... any ideas? From: lhera...@bu.edu To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 10:00:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder Have you tried drilling out the rivets and taking the part to a musical Instrument repair shop? They may be able to straighten it out. Then you can rivet it back on. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org ] On Behalf Of Vinyl Visions Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 8:30 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder I don't know what you call it exactly, but does anyone sell replacements for the brass ball holder that is riveted to a cygnet horn? If so, how do you go about replacing it? Mine was torn up by someone trying to
Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder
Thanks Curt for sharing these tips. Andy On Nov 11, 2010, at 4:50 PM, Vinyl Visions wrote: Hi Andy and all, From what you can see on the video, Rub n Buff or similar rub on metallic waxes are great for restorations. I have used it to touch up or redo the stripes on Edison horns. It subtlely restores the original look. A friend and I recently used it on the gold tonearm of his Victrola 18, which had some obvious wear on the elbow near the reproducer. After we finished, you couldn't tell it was done. Note: Rub n Buff or other metallic waxes look good, but are not permanent without using a fixative. I use Krylon Matte finish art fixative to topcoat it after I'm through. It is transparent and does not show up after it is applied, but makes the metallic finish permanent. You should experiment first, before using it on an important piece. Another use for the fixative is this: if you have a black horn, which is scratched, etc. it detracts from the look and I hate to repaint, because you cannot reproduce the japanned finish. I touch up the scratches with a Sharpie marker, then blend the t ouchups in with WD40 - I know, everyone hates WD40, but WD40 sprayed on the black paint restores the original look and blends in the touchups from the Sharpie. I then wipe off the WD40 with a soft cloth and spray the horn with fixative. If you have a horn that is in need of repainting, you might try this procedure, as it has worked well for me. I have restored a Victor R horn, a Cygnet horn that was really scratched bad and an Edison black flowered horn that now looks pristine. Just an idea... take it for what it's worth. Curt From: a...@popyrus.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 09:35:15 -0700 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder I've been following this thread with interest. Nice description here. Brass hardware that you mentioned (2-56 thread might be appropriate for this), and solder are all relatively soft materials and would give that nice balance between getting as close as you can to a factory look, and yet be sturdy enough to know it will safely support the weight. What's the rub n buff that you mentioned? Andy Baron On Nov 10, 2010, at 11:59 PM, Mike Stitt wrote: Is it really so bad the rivets must come out? Even if the metal is split I'll bet you could close it up. This sounds like one of those jobs you wish you left alone. Rivet drilling can go wrong in a heartbeat. If you can drill the outside head with a matching bit ( a little smaller that the rivet head) but do not drill thru'. Be very careful. Just thin the rivet. Next with a smaller bit drill thru' the center but not through the rivet. Take a punch and gently tap it out. The rivet head should break apart at the shank when you tap it. If not thin the head out more so. Small brass rivets will be your best bet. I'd use nuts and bolts over pop rivets.You might give thought if you use brass rivets to drill the shank with a small bit. That way when you set them the rivet should give with less force. If you use nuts and bolts use brass. File the nuts down very thin and even file them round. Cut the screws just long enough so when you bolt it together the screw should not extend past the thin nut. Using brass you can fill the slotted head in with solder. Either use rub n buff or just black model paint. It is un-doable if need be and will look better than you think. Mike Stitt Good luck. Mike Stitt On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 10:10 PM, Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu wrote: It was probably a riveting tool with a long reach. You could pop rivet them but that would not look quite right from the inside. Anyone else know more about riveting? Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org ] On Behalf Of Vinyl Visions Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 10:58 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder I've been afraid to remove the rivets, since I don't know what method they used originally to put the rivets in without distorting the horn... any ideas? From: lhera...@bu.edu To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 10:00:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder Have you tried drilling out the rivets and taking the part to a musical Instrument repair shop? They may be able to straighten it out. Then you can rivet it back on. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org ] On Behalf Of Vinyl Visions Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 8:30 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder I don't know what you call it exactly, but does anyone sell replacements for the brass ball holder that is riveted to a cygnet horn? If so, how do you go about replacing it? Mine was torn up by someone trying to replace the ball. Curt ___ Phono-L mailing list
[Phono-L] Rub n' Buff Metallic Finishes
Has anyone ever used the black (ebony) Rub n' Buff on Columbia reproduction aluminum parts? I have used black stove polish after soaking the parts with Drano (sodium hydroxide). The Rub n' Buff sounds a lot less labor intensive. From: vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 18:50:09 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder Hi Andy and all, From what you can see on the video, Rub n Buff or similar rub on metallic waxes are great for restorations. I have used it to touch up or redo the stripes on Edison horns. It subtlely restores the original look. A friend and I recently used it on the gold tonearm of his Victrola 18, which had some obvious wear on the elbow near the reproducer. After we finished, you couldn't tell it was done. Note: Rub n Buff or other metallic waxes look good, but are not permanent without using a fixative. I use Krylon Matte finish art fixative to topcoat it after I'm through. It is transparent and does not show up after it is applied, but makes the metallic finish permanent. You should experiment first, before using it on an important piece. Another use for the fixative is this: if you have a black horn, which is scratched, etc. it detracts from the look and I hate to repaint, because you cannot reproduce the japanned finish. I touch up the scratches with a Sharpie marker, then blend the t ouchups in with WD40 - I know, everyone hates WD40, but WD40 sprayed on the black paint restores the original look and blends in the touchups from the Sharpie. I then wipe off the WD40 with a soft cloth and spray the horn with fixative. If you have a horn that is in need of repainting, you might try this procedure, as it has worked well for me. I have restored a Victor R horn, a Cygnet horn that was really scratched bad and an Edison black flowered horn that now looks pristine. Just an idea... take it for what it's worth. Curt From: a...@popyrus.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 09:35:15 -0700 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder I've been following this thread with interest. Nice description here. Brass hardware that you mentioned (2-56 thread might be appropriate for this), and solder are all relatively soft materials and would give that nice balance between getting as close as you can to a factory look, and yet be sturdy enough to know it will safely support the weight. What's the rub n buff that you mentioned? Andy Baron On Nov 10, 2010, at 11:59 PM, Mike Stitt wrote: Is it really so bad the rivets must come out? Even if the metal is split I'll bet you could close it up. This sounds like one of those jobs you wish you left alone. Rivet drilling can go wrong in a heartbeat. If you can drill the outside head with a matching bit ( a little smaller that the rivet head) but do not drill thru'. Be very careful. Just thin the rivet. Next with a smaller bit drill thru' the center but not through the rivet. Take a punch and gently tap it out. The rivet head should break apart at the shank when you tap it. If not thin the head out more so. Small brass rivets will be your best bet. I'd use nuts and bolts over pop rivets.You might give thought if you use brass rivets to drill the shank with a small bit. That way when you set them the rivet should give with less force. If you use nuts and bolts use brass. File the nuts down very thin and even file them round. Cut the screws just long enough so when you bolt it together the screw should not extend past the thin nut. Using brass you can fill the slotted head in with solder. Either use rub n buff or just black model paint. It is un-doable if need be and will look better than you think. Mike Stitt Good luck. Mike Stitt On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 10:10 PM, Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu wrote: It was probably a riveting tool with a long reach. You could pop rivet them but that would not look quite right from the inside. Anyone else know more about riveting? Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org ] On Behalf Of Vinyl Visions Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 10:58 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder I've been afraid to remove the rivets, since I don't know what method they used originally to put the rivets in without distorting the horn... any ideas? From: lhera...@bu.edu To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 10:00:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder Have you tried drilling out the rivets and taking the part to a musical Instrument repair shop? They may be able to straighten it out. Then you can rivet it back
[Phono-L] Victor II (V 2) horn needed
Hi All ~ Last Sunday I bought a Victor II (Victor the 2nd) at an estate sale of a local collector, but it's missing the horn and elbow. It appears to be an early Type M, according to the Victor Data Book, the one with the small square feet at each corner. The type M appears to be the second taper tone-arm model, preceding the type A through F series of machines. Based on the serial number, I would say it's one of the earliest of that series so most likely the type H (13.75 inch bell diameter) brass bell horn would be correct. If anyone has this horn elbow in decent shape at a reasonable price, I'd appreciate hearing about it. Thanks, Andy Baron Santa Fe, NM ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Rub n' Buff Metallic Finishes
Greg, There is a product that gunsmiths use to blacken aluminum parts. I have never used that particular thing, but I am a big fan of SuperBlue cold gun bluing. I use it on parts that are rusty and need restoration. First take the rusty parts - brake parts, screws, etc. and clean them with a steel brush wheel (I have a grinder with one side as a grinding wheel, the other as a steel brush wheel) then buff them with a buffer. You can make the steel parts almost appear to have been re-nickled by doing this. However, if you don't want the parts to stand out, dip a soft cloth in the SuperBlue, rub it on - leave it for a minute or two and then spray with WD40 or other gun preservation sprays. It is important to spray the parts after bluing to stop the oxidation from continuing. You then have a part that appears to be in excellent condition, but aged. From: drgr...@msn.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 20:49:34 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Rub n' Buff Metallic Finishes Has anyone ever used the black (ebony) Rub n' Buff on Columbia reproduction aluminum parts? I have used black stove polish after soaking the parts with Drano (sodium hydroxide). The Rub n' Buff sounds a lot less labor intensive. From: vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 18:50:09 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder Hi Andy and all, From what you can see on the video, Rub n Buff or similar rub on metallic waxes are great for restorations. I have used it to touch up or redo the stripes on Edison horns. It subtlely restores the original look. A friend and I recently used it on the gold tonearm of his Victrola 18, which had some obvious wear on the elbow near the reproducer. After we finished, you couldn't tell it was done. Note: Rub n Buff or other metallic waxes look good, but are not permanent without using a fixative. I use Krylon Matte finish art fixative to topcoat it after I'm through. It is transparent and does not show up after it is applied, but makes the metallic finish permanent. You should experiment first, before using it on an important piece. Another use for the fixative is this: if you have a black horn, which is scratched, etc. it detracts from the look and I hate to repaint, because you cannot reproduce the japanned finish. I touch up the scratches with a Sharpie marker, then blend t he t ouchups in with WD40 - I know, everyone hates WD40, but WD40 sprayed on the black paint restores the original look and blends in the touchups from the Sharpie. I then wipe off the WD40 with a soft cloth and spray the horn with fixative. If you have a horn that is in need of repainting, you might try this procedure, as it has worked well for me. I have restored a Victor R horn, a Cygnet horn that was really scratched bad and an Edison black flowered horn that now looks pristine. Just an idea... take it for what it's worth. Curt From: a...@popyrus.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 09:35:15 -0700 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder I've been following this thread with interest. Nice description here. Brass hardware that you mentioned (2-56 thread might be appropriate for this), and solder are all relatively soft materials and would give that nice balance between getting as close as you can to a factory look, and yet be sturdy enough to know it will safely support the weight. What's the rub n buff that you mentioned? Andy Baron On Nov 10, 2010, at 11:59 PM, Mike Stitt wrote: Is it really so bad the rivets must come out? Even if the metal is split I'll bet you could close it up. This sounds like one of those jobs you wish you left alone. Rivet drilling can go wrong in a heartbeat. If you can drill the outside head with a matching bit ( a little smaller that the rivet head) but do not drill thru'. Be very careful. Just thin the rivet. Next with a smaller bit drill thru' the center but not through the rivet. Take a punch and gently tap it out. The rivet head should break apart at the shank when you tap it. If not thin the head out more so. Small brass rivets will be your best bet. I'd use nuts and bolts over pop rivets.You might give thought if you use brass rivets to drill the shank with a small bit. That way when you set them the rivet should give with less force. If you use nuts and bolts use brass. File the nuts down very thin and even file them round. Cut the screws just long enough so when you bolt it together the screw should not extend past the thin nut. Using brass you can fill the slotted head in with solder. Either use rub n buff or just black model paint. It is un-doable if need be and will look better than you think. Mike
Re: [Phono-L] Rub n' Buff Metallic Finishes
SuperBlue also works to age brass... From: vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 21:15:35 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Rub n' Buff Metallic Finishes Greg, There is a product that gunsmiths use to blacken aluminum parts. I have never used that particular thing, but I am a big fan of SuperBlue cold gun bluing. I use it on parts that are rusty and need restoration. First take the rusty parts - brake parts, screws, etc. and clean them with a steel brush wheel (I have a grinder with one side as a grinding wheel, the other as a steel brush wheel) then buff them with a buffer. You can make the steel parts almost appear to have been re-nickled by doing this. However, if you don't want the parts to stand out, dip a soft cloth in the SuperBlue, rub it on - leave it for a minute or two and then spray with WD40 or other gun preservation sprays. It is important to spray the parts after bluing to stop the oxidation from continuing. You then have a part that appears to be in excellent condition, but aged. From: drgr...@msn.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 20:49:34 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Rub n' Buff Metallic Finishes Has anyone ever used the black (ebony) Rub n' Buff on Columbia reproduction aluminum parts? I have used black stove polish after soaking the parts with Drano (sodium hydroxide). The Rub n' Buff sounds a lot less labor intensive. From: vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 18:50:09 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder Hi Andy and all, From what you can see on the video, Rub n Buff or similar rub on metallic waxes are great for restorations. I have used it to touch up or redo the stripes on Edison horns. It subtlely restores the original look. A friend and I recently used it on the gold tonearm of his Victrola 18, which had some obvious wear on the elbow near the reproducer. After we finished, you couldn't tell it was done. Note: Rub n Buff or other metallic waxes look good, but are not permanent without using a fixative. I use Krylon Matte finish art fixative to topcoat it after I'm through. It is transparent and does not show up after it is applied, but makes the metallic finish permanent. You should experiment first, before using it on an important piece. Another use for the fixative is this: if you have a black horn, which is scratched, etc. it detracts from the look and I hate to repaint, because you cannot reproduce the japanned finish. I touch up the scratches with a Sharpie marker, then blend t he t ouchups in with WD40 - I know, everyone hates WD40, but WD40 sprayed on the black paint restores the original look and blends in the touchups from the Sharpie. I then wipe off the WD40 with a soft cloth and spray the horn with fixative. If you have a horn that is in need of repainting, you might try this procedure, as it has worked well for me. I have restored a Victor R horn, a Cygnet horn that was really scratched bad and an Edison black flowered horn that now looks pristine. Just an idea... take it for what it's worth. Curt From: a...@popyrus.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 09:35:15 -0700 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cygnet Horn Ball Holder I've been following this thread with interest. Nice description here. Brass hardware that you mentioned (2-56 thread might be appropriate for this), and solder are all relatively soft materials and would give that nice balance between getting as close as you can to a factory look, and yet be sturdy enough to know it will safely support the weight. What's the rub n buff that you mentioned? Andy Baron On Nov 10, 2010, at 11:59 PM, Mike Stitt wrote: Is it really so bad the rivets must come out? Even if the metal is split I'll bet you could close it up. This sounds like one of those jobs you wish you left alone. Rivet drilling can go wrong in a heartbeat. If you can drill the outside head with a matching bit ( a little smaller that the rivet head) but do not drill thru'. Be very careful. Just thin the rivet. Next with a smaller bit drill thru' the center but not through the rivet. Take a punch and gently tap it out. The rivet head should break apart at the shank when you tap it. If not thin the head out more so. Small brass rivets will be your best bet. I'd use nuts and bolts over pop rivets.You might give thought if you use brass rivets to drill the shank with a small bit. That way when you set them the rivet should give with less force. If you use nuts and bolts use brass. File the nuts down very thin and even file them round. Cut the screws
[Phono-L] Original or restored?
I have always believed in keeping my phonographs in as close to original condition as is possible. Fixing them, but not stripping and restoring them. I'm just curious... Is that the norm with most collectors on this group or do you like to restore them to look like new? Tom ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Original or restored?
I would much rather have a professionally restored machine that looks and runs great, than an all original fixer upper. Both my Opera and Vic6 are restored machines, and look just gorgeous, and run so nice. Sometimes you have to restore something. I would much rather have a restored Rembrandt, then one with a huge hole in it. On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 7:06 PM, Tom Jordan tom...@msn.com wrote: I have always believed in keeping my phonographs in as close to original condition as is possible. Fixing them, but not stripping and restoring them. I'm just curious... Is that the norm with most collectors on this group or do you like to restore them to look like new? Tom ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Original or restored?
As with any antique or work of art, the least amount of repair/restoration work that is necessary is always the best course. What is, in fact, necessary is a matter of professional judgment, of course. And the definition of what is professional judgment is always a matter for debate. Michael Funk ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Original or restored?
Jay, I forgot to say that I do restore my machines to excellent running condition. I just don't do much cosmetically except to clean the machine of dirt and grime. Preserving the original finish. Tom -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Jay Horenstein Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 9:49 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Original or restored? I would much rather have a professionally restored machine that looks and runs great, than an all original fixer upper. Both my Opera and Vic6 are restored machines, and look just gorgeous, and run so nice. Sometimes you have to restore something. I would much rather have a restored Rembrandt, then one with a huge hole in it. On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 7:06 PM, Tom Jordan tom...@msn.com wrote: I have always believed in keeping my phonographs in as close to original condition as is possible. Fixing them, but not stripping and restoring them. I'm just curious... Is that the norm with most collectors on this group or do you like to restore them to look like new? Tom ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Original or restored?
That's cool. I don't think there are any rules in collecting, except for the ones we make for ourselves. I'm with you, why refinish if you don't have to? On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 9:02 PM, Tom Jordan tom...@msn.com wrote: Jay, I forgot to say that I do restore my machines to excellent running condition. I just don't do much cosmetically except to clean the machine of dirt and grime. Preserving the original finish. Tom -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Jay Horenstein Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 9:49 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Original or restored? I would much rather have a professionally restored machine that looks and runs great, than an all original fixer upper. Both my Opera and Vic6 are restored machines, and look just gorgeous, and run so nice. Sometimes you have to restore something. I would much rather have a restored Rembrandt, then one with a huge hole in it. On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 7:06 PM, Tom Jordan tom...@msn.com wrote: I have always believed in keeping my phonographs in as close to original condition as is possible. Fixing them, but not stripping and restoring them. I'm just curious... Is that the norm with most collectors on this group or do you like to restore them to look like new? Tom ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
