Re: [PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
Jochem Maas wrote: Colin Guthrie schreef: Lester Caine wrote: Jochem - You not had the problem of M$ changing default font sizes in different versions of windows? IT departments have enough problems with INSTALLING an upgrade without asking them to CHANGE the font size as well :) The complaint from THIS site was that they could not log out because the 'logout' button was hidden - selecting a size smaller font on the browser fixes the problem, but we have to add a scroll bar to the menu because They can't change from the default settings :( Yeah font sizes are a pain... tip of the day: Don't put and XML preamble in if you are using XHTML and get your doctypes right. Once you do that, the font size problems are a lot easier to address. indeed they are a pain, properly validating strict xHTML is the start of making it manageable, other part is defining suitable style sheets that fix the problem. plenty of eggheads offer blogs posts/articles etc that define the issues and offer cross-browser font-size solutions. IE font-size hell is exactly that, but there is no reason to have to pass it on to the client ... going through M$Hell is our job ;-) My NEW stuff addresses the problem, AND I provide free upgrades as part of the maintenance, BUT it can take several YEARS to get permission to apply those upgrades ;) Actually this is good example of where it can be difficult to update things. I have still to get permission to switch some sites from PHP5.0.6 even though we KNOW that 5.2.6 provides speed improvements! The system is working fine for them and they do not want to break it - and yet they insist on running Windows Update in the background WHICH DOES JUST THAT - Go figure :( -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
Ross McKay wrote: Michael McGlothlin wrote: [...] I think web developers should look into a class action case against Microsoft for failing to make their browser standards compliant - it sure costs us a lot extra in development time. :p Let me know where the PayPal donate button is... DW I are fed up with having to find nasty kludges for IE6 every time we build a website! I think by the changing shape of the web, all browsers should have a sunset date in there beyond which they do not operate (either that or open a nag screen on every page load that is impossible to turn off (other than with a low level hack/patch to the binary - or obviously just a comment/recompile in open source ones!)). It should be respected that browsers go out of date and beyond that time *noone* supports them, not their authors or the web developing public. Col -- Colin Guthrie gmane(at)colin.guthr.ie http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited [http://www.tribalogic.net/] Open Source: Mandriva Linux Contributor [http://www.mandriva.com/] PulseAudio Hacker [http://www.pulseaudio.org/] Trac Hacker [http://trac.edgewall.org/] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
yeah, make an official no-support date. That would be great- it would help with the whole IE6 problem. It needs to be phased out, yet I know many companies that still haven't upgraded to IE7 yet! That's a big security problem as well as being a headache for all of us... 2008/9/11 Colin Guthrie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ross McKay wrote: Michael McGlothlin wrote: [...] I think web developers should look into a class action case against Microsoft for failing to make their browser standards compliant - it sure costs us a lot extra in development time. :p Let me know where the PayPal donate button is... DW I are fed up with having to find nasty kludges for IE6 every time we build a website! I think by the changing shape of the web, all browsers should have a sunset date in there beyond which they do not operate (either that or open a nag screen on every page load that is impossible to turn off (other than with a low level hack/patch to the binary - or obviously just a comment/recompile in open source ones!)). It should be respected that browsers go out of date and beyond that time *noone* supports them, not their authors or the web developing public. Col -- Colin Guthrie gmane(at)colin.guthr.ie http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited [http://www.tribalogic.net/] Open Source: Mandriva Linux Contributor [http://www.mandriva.com/] PulseAudio Hacker [http://www.pulseaudio.org/] Trac Hacker [http://trac.edgewall.org/] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- Luke Slater
[PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:25:11 +0100, Colin Guthrie wrote: [...] It should be respected that browsers go out of date and beyond that time *noone* supports them, not their authors or the web developing public. The worst thing about Vista is that not enough Win2K and WinXP (IE6) users want to upgrade to it (and who can blame them?) The best thing about Google Chrome is that maybe, just maybe, the tide will turn against Microsoft Word as the tech-unsavvy move to this cloud computing buzzword-paradise (onto Linux-based cheap PCs with no IE6!) Ah, a man can dream, can't he? -- Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia Hope is the dream o a foolish man - The Wee Book of Calvin -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
Luke wrote: yeah, make an official no-support date. That would be great- it would help with the whole IE6 problem. It needs to be phased out, yet I know many companies that still haven't upgraded to IE7 yet! That's a big security problem as well as being a headache for all of us... MOST of my council customers only have IE6 on their networks although I was asked the question 'Does it run on IE7' only recently. To which the answer is 'Yes - but all the font sizes are too big!' Since the cost of replacing several thousand computers at each council to ones that could RUN XP is excessive and the current systems work fine then why should they upgrade? The cost will come out of OUR pockets at some point :( -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
Lester Caine schreef: Luke wrote: yeah, make an official no-support date. That would be great- it would help with the whole IE6 problem. It needs to be phased out, yet I know many companies that still haven't upgraded to IE7 yet! That's a big security problem as well as being a headache for all of us... MOST of my council customers only have IE6 on their networks although I was asked the question 'Does it run on IE7' only recently. To which the answer is 'Yes - but all the font sizes are too big!' wtf? Since the cost of replacing several thousand computers at each council to ones that could RUN XP is excessive and the current systems work fine then why should they upgrade? The cost will come out of OUR pockets at some point :( -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
Lester Caine wrote: MOST of my council customers only have IE6 on their networks although I was asked the question 'Does it run on IE7' only recently. To which the answer is 'Yes - but all the font sizes are too big!' Since the cost of replacing several thousand computers at each council to ones that could RUN XP is excessive and the current systems work fine then why should they upgrade? The cost will come out of OUR pockets at some point :( Why do they need to upgrade the whole OS just to upgrade a browser who's sunset date has been reached? There are enough open source browsers out there that you can get a modern, standards compliant browser on older hardware without any problem. If this date was built in from the start and was well known, there wouldn't be any problem. It's just trying to retrofit now that people start to think that it's a problem (and due to the general reluctance to keep prop. web apps up-to-date with modern browsers, this is partially correct, but like I say, if this was all known up front, these issues would all have been dealt with!) Col -- Colin Guthrie gmane(at)colin.guthr.ie http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited [http://www.tribalogic.net/] Open Source: Mandriva Linux Contributor [http://www.mandriva.com/] PulseAudio Hacker [http://www.pulseaudio.org/] Trac Hacker [http://trac.edgewall.org/] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:53 AM, Colin Guthrie wrote: Lester Caine wrote: MOST of my council customers only have IE6 on their networks although I was asked the question 'Does it run on IE7' only recently. To which the answer is 'Yes - but all the font sizes are too big!' Since the cost of replacing several thousand computers at each council to ones that could RUN XP is excessive and the current systems work fine then why should they upgrade? The cost will come out of OUR pockets at some point :( Why do they need to upgrade the whole OS just to upgrade a browser who's sunset date has been reached? There are enough open source browsers out there that you can get a modern, standards compliant browser on older hardware without any problem. If this date was built in from the start and was well known, there wouldn't be any problem. It's just trying to retrofit now that people start to think that it's a problem (and due to the general reluctance to keep prop. web apps up-to-date with modern browsers, this is partially correct, but like I say, if this was all known up front, these issues would all have been dealt with!) It also would have taken care of the people who wrote the webapps that were specific to certain software. I know large companies on their intranets have systems that only work with IE 6 which they spent a ton of money developing... It sucks but it's the truth... I say make sure you write to open web standards and the entire internet will be better off :) -- Jason Pruim Raoset Inc. Technology Manager MQC Specialist 11287 James St Holland, MI 49424 www.raoset.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
In the Microsoft world, you only support the latest couple of OSs, so IE7 won't run on Win2k. ank you, Micah Gersten onShore Networks Internal Developer http://www.onshore.com Colin Guthrie wrote: Why do they need to upgrade the whole OS just to upgrade a browser who's sunset date has been reached? There are enough open source browsers out there that you can get a modern, standards compliant browser on older hardware without any problem. If this date was built in from the start and was well known, there wouldn't be any problem. It's just trying to retrofit now that people start to think that it's a problem (and due to the general reluctance to keep prop. web apps up-to-date with modern browsers, this is partially correct, but like I say, if this was all known up front, these issues would all have been dealt with!) Col -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
Micah Gersten wrote: In the Microsoft world, you only support the latest couple of OSs, so IE7 won't run on Win2k. What about FF, Opera, Chrome, Safari? Do *any* of those work? If not, then it wouldn't take long to get one of them working if IE had a sunset date in it. Then you'd see how quickly MS responded with making IEx work on their older OSes (and simply recompiling IE6 with a newer sunset date should not be allowed!) I'm not sure how you would police it, but there should be a badge of honour associated with the system in some way, probably overseen by W3C. Col -- Colin Guthrie gmane(at)colin.guthr.ie http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited [http://www.tribalogic.net/] Open Source: Mandriva Linux Contributor [http://www.mandriva.com/] PulseAudio Hacker [http://www.pulseaudio.org/] Trac Hacker [http://trac.edgewall.org/] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 14:22:30 +0100, Colin Guthrie wrote: [...] I'm not sure how you would police it, but there should be a badge of honour associated with the system in some way, probably overseen by W3C. Like this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid2 -- Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia You can't control what you can't measure - Tom DeMarco -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
Colin Guthrie wrote: Micah Gersten wrote: In the Microsoft world, you only support the latest couple of OSs, so IE7 won't run on Win2k. What about FF, Opera, Chrome, Safari? Do *any* of those work? If not, then it wouldn't take long to get one of them working if IE had a sunset date in it. Then you'd see how quickly MS responded with making IEx work on their older OSes (and simply recompiling IE6 with a newer sunset date should not be allowed!) I'm not sure how you would police it, but there should be a badge of honour associated with the system in some way, probably overseen by W3C. The problem here is the sales job M$ does on the councils when providing their site licences. CERTAINLY when ever I demo new facilities I don't use IE - in fact I have even STRIPPED IE from most machines here, but have a couple of machines that don't matter if IE leaks ;) IE7 does not run on W2k so M$ want money to upgrade to - Vista nowadays - so it's not going to happen any time soon. It would be nice if we could convince IT departments that there ARE other sources of software than M$, and I *AM* now slipping Linux servers into sites where only Windows machines were acceptable a couple of years ago. I suspect that with the current Linux distributions supplying OpenOffice and Firefox out of the box, then a few more IT departments will be moving that way very soon... :) Jochem - You not had the problem of M$ changing default font sizes in different versions of windows? IT departments have enough problems with INSTALLING an upgrade without asking them to CHANGE the font size as well :) The complaint from THIS site was that they could not log out because the 'logout' button was hidden - selecting a size smaller font on the browser fixes the problem, but we have to add a scroll bar to the menu because They can't change from the default settings :( -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
Lester Caine wrote: Jochem - You not had the problem of M$ changing default font sizes in different versions of windows? IT departments have enough problems with INSTALLING an upgrade without asking them to CHANGE the font size as well :) The complaint from THIS site was that they could not log out because the 'logout' button was hidden - selecting a size smaller font on the browser fixes the problem, but we have to add a scroll bar to the menu because They can't change from the default settings :( Yeah font sizes are a pain... tip of the day: Don't put and XML preamble in if you are using XHTML and get your doctypes right. Once you do that, the font size problems are a lot easier to address. Col -- Colin Guthrie gmane(at)colin.guthr.ie http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited [http://www.tribalogic.net/] Open Source: Mandriva Linux Contributor [http://www.mandriva.com/] PulseAudio Hacker [http://www.pulseaudio.org/] Trac Hacker [http://trac.edgewall.org/] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
Colin Guthrie schreef: Lester Caine wrote: Jochem - You not had the problem of M$ changing default font sizes in different versions of windows? IT departments have enough problems with INSTALLING an upgrade without asking them to CHANGE the font size as well :) The complaint from THIS site was that they could not log out because the 'logout' button was hidden - selecting a size smaller font on the browser fixes the problem, but we have to add a scroll bar to the menu because They can't change from the default settings :( Yeah font sizes are a pain... tip of the day: Don't put and XML preamble in if you are using XHTML and get your doctypes right. Once you do that, the font size problems are a lot easier to address. indeed they are a pain, properly validating strict xHTML is the start of making it manageable, other part is defining suitable style sheets that fix the problem. plenty of eggheads offer blogs posts/articles etc that define the issues and offer cross-browser font-size solutions. IE font-size hell is exactly that, but there is no reason to have to pass it on to the client ... going through M$Hell is our job ;-) Col -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
I run VMWare Fusion on my iMac. I run Windows 2000 w/ IE6 and XP w/ IE7 in their own virtual machines. I haven't bothered with IE8 yet but will probably try it in another copy of my XP virtual machine. I'm sure as hell not going to pay Microsoft any more in licensing fees to make stuff work in their crappy browsers. I think web developers should look into a class action case against Microsoft for failing to make their browser standards compliant - it sure costs us a lot extra in development time. :p how do you handle licensing/activation in these VMs? I have parallels on my Mac and a 'proper' bootcamp install of WinXP which I need for work ... and I'm not about to screw with that install for the sake of testing another POS version of IE. You need a license for each instance of XP that you run. AFAIK, you only need one license to multi-boot XP on a single computer (but you should check that!) so I don't see why it would be any different for multiple images run singly in a VM. NB: I'm talking XP here; I vaguely recall something about the Vista EULA (spit!) specifically excluding installation in a non-MS VM, so you'd need to check with your lawyers on that one... :/ However, I'm using my MSDN Universal (or whatever it's now called) copy of XP. I built an image once, backed it up, and it became my IE6 test image. I copied it a couple of times for an IE7 image, an IE8 image (as yet unused!), a Chrome image, and a .NET environment for running a couple of Windows tools and testing legacy .ASP websites I have to maintain from time to time. It all runs very nicely in KVM, and lets me test in IE without shutting down Linux :) but I'd love to be able to have a prinstine winXP image laying about that I can repeatedly screw up in the name of compatibility and cross-browser testing. Certainly QEMU / KVM, and I'm pretty sure the others too, allow you to run in snapshot mode whereby hard drive writes are held in temporary files and only written back to the image if / when you tell the VM to commit. Thus, you don't even need to refresh the image if you just test in snapshot all the time. (and work with network data files, or version control workspaces) smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: [PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
Michael McGlothlin wrote: [...] I think web developers should look into a class action case against Microsoft for failing to make their browser standards compliant - it sure costs us a lot extra in development time. :p Let me know where the PayPal donate button is... DW I are fed up with having to find nasty kludges for IE6 every time we build a website! -- Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia I think you are blind to the fact that the hand you hold is the hand that holds you down - Everclear -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
Ross McKay wrote: Jochem Maas wrote: how do you handle licensing/activation in these VMs? I have parallels on my Mac and a 'proper' bootcamp install of WinXP which I need for work ... and I'm not about to screw with that install for the sake of testing another POS version of IE. You need a license for each instance of XP that you run. AFAIK, you only need one license to multi-boot XP on a single computer (but you should check that!) so I don't see why it would be any different for multiple images run singly in a VM. I somehow doubt it, but that would be nice. I certainly wouldn't have any moral qualms about it, but not sure if MS lawyers would see it lat way. That said, if you use a VM system that support snapshots, then you can have a faily convenient sacrificial install that you can play with this kind of thing. That said, it's still not useful. [Edit: I see you wrote pretty much the same thing at the end of your mail ;)] NB: I'm talking XP here; I vaguely recall something about the Vista EULA (spit!) specifically excluding installation in a non-MS VM, so you'd need to check with your lawyers on that one... :/ I think I remember reading that they relaxed their VM licensing stance... Having never installed Vista and having no intention of touching it with a 10ft barge pole, I can't say I care! -- Colin Guthrie gmane(at)colin.guthr.ie http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited [http://www.tribalogic.net/] Open Source: Mandriva Linux Contributor [http://www.mandriva.com/] PulseAudio Hacker [http://www.pulseaudio.org/] Trac Hacker [http://trac.edgewall.org/] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
Richard Heyes wrote: Anyone using it? Do you mean Firefox, Chrome or Safari? All of these are Internet Explorer beaters Col -- Colin Guthrie gmane(at)colin.guthr.ie http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited [http://www.tribalogic.net/] Open Source: Mandriva Linux Contributor [http://www.mandriva.com/] PulseAudio Hacker [http://www.pulseaudio.org/] Trac Hacker [http://trac.edgewall.org/] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
Hi, I think he is asking whether people are using Internet Explore 8 Beta 2 I am. That would be an obscure sense of humour. No I'm not using it, I still haven't ugraded to IE7 yet, and probably won't while I use Firefox 3, and am quite happy with FF3. I really don't want to install a beta (though I did install Chrome, so maybe that should be an MS beta) but I am interested in how it performs. -- Richard Heyes HTML5 Graphing for IE7, FF, Chrome, Opera and Safari: http://www.phpguru.org/RGraph -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
Sorry, but sarcasm doesn't quite come across email very effectively. 2008/9/8 Richard Heyes [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, I think he is asking whether people are using Internet Explore 8 Beta 2 I am. That would be an obscure sense of humour. No I'm not using it, I still haven't ugraded to IE7 yet, and probably won't while I use Firefox 3, and am quite happy with FF3. I really don't want to install a beta (though I did install Chrome, so maybe that should be an MS beta) but I am interested in how it performs. -- Richard Heyes HTML5 Graphing for IE7, FF, Chrome, Opera and Safari: http://www.phpguru.org/RGraph -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 13:03:18 +0100, Richard Heyes wrote: I really don't want to install a beta (though I did install Chrome, so maybe that should be an MS beta) but I am interested in how it performs. That's what God invented the virtual machine for. Load up Windows XP in KVM, QEMU, VirtualBox, VMware or whatever takes your fancy, then plaster it with IE8b2 and see what breaks. I have to admit it's been sitting in a folder here waiting for just that to happen for ... when was it released? Crikey, work can really get in the way sometimes, eh? :) (although I did find time to test Chrome in KVM - and I must say it is fast, if not particularly useful yet) -- Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia Let the laddie play wi the knife - he'll learn - The Wee Book of Calvin -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
I think he is asking whether people are using Internet Explore 8 Beta 2 No I'm not using it, I still haven't ugraded to IE7 yet, and probably won't while I use Firefox 3, and am quite happy with FF3. Andrew -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
God Who? -- Richard Heyes HTML5 Graphing for IE7, FF, Chrome, Opera and Safari: http://www.phpguru.org/RGraph -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
Richard Heyes wrote: That's what God invented the virtual machine for God Who? I prefer some kind of Xen Buddhism... -- Colin Guthrie gmane(at)colin.guthr.ie http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited [http://www.tribalogic.net/] Open Source: Mandriva Linux Contributor [http://www.mandriva.com/] PulseAudio Hacker [http://www.pulseaudio.org/] Trac Hacker [http://trac.edgewall.org/] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
On Mon, 2008-09-08 at 11:48 +0100, Colin Guthrie wrote: Richard Heyes wrote: Anyone using it? Do you mean Firefox, Chrome or Safari? All of these are Internet Explorer beaters You forgot Opera you insensitive clod... it beats all 4! Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
Ross McKay schreef: On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 13:03:18 +0100, Richard Heyes wrote: I really don't want to install a beta (though I did install Chrome, so maybe that should be an MS beta) but I am interested in how it performs. That's what God invented the virtual machine for. Load up Windows XP in KVM, QEMU, VirtualBox, VMware or whatever takes your fancy, then plaster it with IE8b2 and see what breaks. how do you handle licensing/activation in these VMs? I have parallels on my Mac and a 'proper' bootcamp install of WinXP which I need for work ... and I'm not about to screw with that install for the sake of testing another POS version of IE. but I'd love to be able to have a prinstine winXP image laying about that I can repeatedly screw up in the name of compatibility and cross-browser testing. I have to admit it's been sitting in a folder here waiting for just that to happen for ... when was it released? Crikey, work can really get in the way sometimes, eh? :) amen to that. (although I did find time to test Chrome in KVM - and I must say it is fast, if not particularly useful yet) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
Jochem Maas wrote: how do you handle licensing/activation in these VMs? I have parallels on my Mac and a 'proper' bootcamp install of WinXP which I need for work ... and I'm not about to screw with that install for the sake of testing another POS version of IE. You need a license for each instance of XP that you run. AFAIK, you only need one license to multi-boot XP on a single computer (but you should check that!) so I don't see why it would be any different for multiple images run singly in a VM. NB: I'm talking XP here; I vaguely recall something about the Vista EULA (spit!) specifically excluding installation in a non-MS VM, so you'd need to check with your lawyers on that one... :/ However, I'm using my MSDN Universal (or whatever it's now called) copy of XP. I built an image once, backed it up, and it became my IE6 test image. I copied it a couple of times for an IE7 image, an IE8 image (as yet unused!), a Chrome image, and a .NET environment for running a couple of Windows tools and testing legacy .ASP websites I have to maintain from time to time. It all runs very nicely in KVM, and lets me test in IE without shutting down Linux :) but I'd love to be able to have a prinstine winXP image laying about that I can repeatedly screw up in the name of compatibility and cross-browser testing. Certainly QEMU / KVM, and I'm pretty sure the others too, allow you to run in snapshot mode whereby hard drive writes are held in temporary files and only written back to the image if / when you tell the VM to commit. Thus, you don't even need to refresh the image if you just test in snapshot all the time. (and work with network data files, or version control workspaces) -- Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia And don't forget ladies and gentlemen you have to buy this new thing that you don't have and if you have it well actually the new better version of the thing that you have well it just came out - Jackson Jackson -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2
[delaware.jobs.com] Excellent Java Tech Lead/Architech Consultant Av delaware-jobs -- Thread -- -- Date -- < Urgent opening on Infrastructure Engineering Contractor It sucks but it's the truth... I say make sure you write to open web standards and the entire internet will be better off :) smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
