Re: [PHP] IRC and English
tedd wrote: At 2:02 PM -0700 9/1/09, Jessi Berkelhammer wrote: As a monolingual North American, I am also very uncomfortable with this thread. A rant about abbreviations/IRC jargon is an appropriate discussion for list, but criticizing how non-native English speakers write English is not. This thread began with a mention of the attitude that non-native English speakers have, as if non-native English speakers are a unified group that are are more likely to have a bad attitude than native English speakers. Of course such a generalization could make people uncomfortable. -jessi tedd wrote: At 11:16 AM -0300 9/1/09, Martin Scotta wrote: As a non-english speaker I feel very uncomfortable with this thread. You shouldn't feel uncomfortable because no one is talking about you. As a fellow monolingual North American, I feel very uncomfortable about your statement as well. Does any other monolingual North American feel the same way as I do? Please expound on your feelings about this most disheartening and distasteful topic. (Boy has this thread degenerated into some politically correct bullsh#t, huh?) Look if you are not the one using u as a substitute for you, then I don't see any support for the discomfort you may feel about this thread. But you are free to feel as it is your nature (shudder). If non-English users (or anyone else for that matter) want to use u for you that's fine -- but I'll refrain from helping them as well. I am sure that if I were writing in their language and shortened it to uncomprehending gibberish, I would receive the same treatment from them. Why is this so hard to understand -- am I using words that are two lengthy? Cheers, tedd Words that are two lengthy: of, an, to, it (etc.) Words that are too lengthy: antidisestablishmentarianism, internationalisation and that other one that begins with flocci... something Sorry tedd :) +1 on hating l33tsp34k and txtspk though (not tho). The American standardisation of English spelling did quite enough damage to the beautiful language of Shakespeare (who couldn't even spell his own name consistently), without any more neologisms creeping in. -- Peter Ford phone: 01580 89 Developer fax: 01580 893399 Justcroft International Ltd., Staplehurst, Kent -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] IRC and English (Bible)
At 9:40 AM +0100 9/2/09, Peter Ford wrote: The American standardisation of English spelling did quite enough damage to the beautiful language of Shakespeare (who couldn't even spell his own name consistently), without any more neologisms creeping in. Okay, Shakespeare... 2B || !2B is an example of what we were talking about. As to Shakespeare spelling his name consistently, I can't comment. But there is a story where Shakespeare assisted in the translation of the King James version of the Bible. Shakespeare was born in 1564 and supposedly worked on the Bible when he was 46 years old. The Bible was published one year later in 1611. In King James version of the Bible one can go to the 46th Psalm and count 46 words from the beginning and find the work Shake. Similarly, one can count 46 words forward from the end of the 46 Psalm and find the word Spear. For proof of the word count, here's a link (count for yourself): http://bartelby.org/108/19/46.html Was this Shakespeare's addition or a coincidence? It's probably a coincidence for I find it highly unlikely that Shakespeare influenced the writing of the Bible, but I find it interesting speculation. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] IRC and English
-Original Message- From: Peter Ford [mailto:p...@justcroft.com] Sent: 02 September 2009 09:40 Words that are two lengthy: of, an, to, it (etc.) Words that are too lengthy: antidisestablishmentarianism, internationalisation and that other one that begins with flocci... something Sorry tedd :) Ooh! Ooh! Ooh! Please, sir, I know that one: it's floccinaucinihilipilification! (God knows why I ever learnt that -- probably some pointless schoolboy challenge 40-odd years ago!! Is that the one that means the act of valuing as worthless, or am I confusing it with something else? Back on topic, I must admit that a lot of txtspk sails by without me noticing -- I suspect as a legacy of online chatting on DEC-10s back in the 70s, using 10cps teletypes, with a line length limit of 80 characters! Cheers! Mike -- Mike Ford, Electronic Information Developer, Libraries and Learning Innovation, Leeds Metropolitan University, C507, Civic Quarter Campus, Woodhouse Lane, LEEDS, LS1 3HE, United Kingdom Email: m.f...@leedsmet.ac.uk Tel: +44 113 812 4730 To view the terms under which this email is distributed, please go to http://disclaimer.leedsmet.ac.uk/email.htm
Re: [PHP] IRC and English
At 9:06 PM -0400 8/31/09, Paul M Foster wrote: I'm sorry, but is anyone else annoyed by people who attempt to use IRC jargon on mailing lists? For example, substituting u for you. Oddly enough, I'm seeing this primarily in foreign language posters, not in native English speakers. It's often accompanied by English so broken I don't even bother trying to decypher it, and sometimes an *attitude* (after which, I blacklist the poster). Am I the only one? It's okay if I am. Just wondering. Paul Paul: u r not the only 1. I h8 that 2! l8er :) tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] IRC and English
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 9:44 AM, tedd tedd.sperl...@gmail.com wrote: At 9:06 PM -0400 8/31/09, Paul M Foster wrote: I'm sorry, but is anyone else annoyed by people who attempt to use IRC jargon on mailing lists? For example, substituting u for you. Oddly enough, I'm seeing this primarily in foreign language posters, not in native English speakers. It's often accompanied by English so broken I don't even bother trying to decypher it, and sometimes an *attitude* (after which, I blacklist the poster). Am I the only one? It's okay if I am. Just wondering. Paul Paul: u r not the only 1. I h8 that 2! l8er :) tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php Yo estoy de acuerdo en que respetar el idioma es importante, aunque claro, redactando sobre la computadora tiene ciertos beneficios. Yo, por ejemplo, evito utilizar acentos. Entiendo que pueda molestarles el hecho de las comunes abreviaturas. Eso es lo malo del lenguaje. Es de todos y, al mismo tiempo, de nadie. Nadie puede cambiarlo individualmente, sólo se puede mutar a través de su uso por parte la población, éste va cambiando día a día. Lamentablemente, a mi modo de ver, los mas jóvenes son quienes incurren en este tipo de acciones, y no se reduce solamente al ingles, creo que este fenómeno se da tambien en otros lenguajes (supongo) impulsado por la deficiencia de los métodos de ingreso de texto de dispositivos moviles. ¿Por que utilizo el español? Después de todo hay una lista para ello. El mundo en internet esté en ingles y yo, como hispano-hablante debi pasar por un proceso de varios años para poder lograr entender, hablar y luego redactar en ingles. ¿pasaron ustedes por el mismo proceso para participar en esta lista? Aqui somos muchos, de diferentes paises y culturas, lo importante -a mi modo de ver- es la comunicación, no el medio o la forma. Con lo cual esta recriminación carece totalmente de sentido. Es realmente triste que en una lista de un lenguaje de codigo abierto que pregona la libre participación y el mutuo beneficio a través de compartir conocimiento se realize semejante acotación; aunque mucho mas triste es que una persona oficialmente perteneciente a dicha comunidad se sume a dicho reclamo. Please do not reply that It's a English based list. Or is it allowed to discriminate here? As a non-english speaker I feel very uncomfortable with this thread. With the best intentions for the community, sincerely yours, Martin Scotta Spanish Speaker
Re: [PHP] IRC and English
2009/9/1 Martin Scotta martinsco...@gmail.com On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 9:44 AM, tedd tedd.sperl...@gmail.com wrote: At 9:06 PM -0400 8/31/09, Paul M Foster wrote: I'm sorry, but is anyone else annoyed by people who attempt to use IRC jargon on mailing lists? For example, substituting u for you. Oddly enough, I'm seeing this primarily in foreign language posters, not in native English speakers. It's often accompanied by English so broken I don't even bother trying to decypher it, and sometimes an *attitude* (after which, I blacklist the poster). Am I the only one? It's okay if I am. Just wondering. Paul Paul: u r not the only 1. I h8 that 2! l8er :) tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php Yo estoy de acuerdo en que respetar el idioma es importante, aunque claro, redactando sobre la computadora tiene ciertos beneficios. Yo, por ejemplo, evito utilizar acentos. Entiendo que pueda molestarles el hecho de las comunes abreviaturas. Eso es lo malo del lenguaje. Es de todos y, al mismo tiempo, de nadie. Nadie puede cambiarlo individualmente, sólo se puede mutar a través de su uso por parte la población, éste va cambiando día a día. Lamentablemente, a mi modo de ver, los mas jóvenes son quienes incurren en este tipo de acciones, y no se reduce solamente al ingles, creo que este fenómeno se da tambien en otros lenguajes (supongo) impulsado por la deficiencia de los métodos de ingreso de texto de dispositivos moviles. ¿Por que utilizo el español? Después de todo hay una lista para ello. El mundo en internet esté en ingles y yo, como hispano-hablante debi pasar por un proceso de varios años para poder lograr entender, hablar y luego redactar en ingles. ¿pasaron ustedes por el mismo proceso para participar en esta lista? Aqui somos muchos, de diferentes paises y culturas, lo importante -a mi modo de ver- es la comunicación, no el medio o la forma. Con lo cual esta recriminación carece totalmente de sentido. Es realmente triste que en una lista de un lenguaje de codigo abierto que pregona la libre participación y el mutuo beneficio a través de compartir conocimiento se realize semejante acotación; aunque mucho mas triste es que una persona oficialmente perteneciente a dicha comunidad se sume a dicho reclamo. Please do not reply that It's a English based list. Or is it allowed to discriminate here? As a non-english speaker I feel very uncomfortable with this thread. With the best intentions for the community, sincerely yours, Martin Scotta Spanish Speaker I don't think we were implicating anyone in particular for this kind of behaviour, Martin, I'm certainly not. I'm a 'young person' myself (being 17) and do not under any circumstances write in such a way purely because it's harder to understand. To be honest, on this list it is mostly the foreign people that tend to use 'u' and such, is it discriminatory to state a fact? -- Luke Slater :O) this text is protected by international copyright. it is illegal for anybody apart from the recipient to keep a copy of this text. dieser text wird von internationalem urheberrecht geschuetzt. allen ausser dem/der empfaenger/-in ist untersagt, eine kopie dieses textes zu behalten.
Re: [PHP] IRC and English
On Tue, 2009-09-01 at 11:16 -0300, Martin Scotta wrote: On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 9:44 AM, tedd tedd.sperl...@gmail.com wrote: At 9:06 PM -0400 8/31/09, Paul M Foster wrote: I'm sorry, but is anyone else annoyed by people who attempt to use IRC jargon on mailing lists? For example, substituting u for you. Oddly enough, I'm seeing this primarily in foreign language posters, not in native English speakers. It's often accompanied by English so broken I don't even bother trying to decypher it, and sometimes an *attitude* (after which, I blacklist the poster). Am I the only one? It's okay if I am. Just wondering. Paul Paul: u r not the only 1. I h8 that 2! l8er :) tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php Yo estoy de acuerdo en que respetar el idioma es importante, aunque claro, redactando sobre la computadora tiene ciertos beneficios. Yo, por ejemplo, evito utilizar acentos. Entiendo que pueda molestarles el hecho de las comunes abreviaturas. Eso es lo malo del lenguaje. Es de todos y, al mismo tiempo, de nadie. Nadie puede cambiarlo individualmente, sólo se puede mutar a través de su uso por parte la población, éste va cambiando día a día. Lamentablemente, a mi modo de ver, los mas jóvenes son quienes incurren en este tipo de acciones, y no se reduce solamente al ingles, creo que este fenómeno se da tambien en otros lenguajes (supongo) impulsado por la deficiencia de los métodos de ingreso de texto de dispositivos moviles. ¿Por que utilizo el español? Después de todo hay una lista para ello. El mundo en internet esté en ingles y yo, como hispano-hablante debi pasar por un proceso de varios años para poder lograr entender, hablar y luego redactar en ingles. ¿pasaron ustedes por el mismo proceso para participar en esta lista? Aqui somos muchos, de diferentes paises y culturas, lo importante -a mi modo de ver- es la comunicación, no el medio o la forma. Con lo cual esta recriminación carece totalmente de sentido. Es realmente triste que en una lista de un lenguaje de codigo abierto que pregona la libre participación y el mutuo beneficio a través de compartir conocimiento se realize semejante acotación; aunque mucho mas triste es que una persona oficialmente perteneciente a dicha comunidad se sume a dicho reclamo. Please do not reply that It's a English based list. Or is it allowed to discriminate here? As a non-english speaker I feel very uncomfortable with this thread. With the best intentions for the community, sincerely yours, Martin Scotta Spanish Speaker I disagree (and I did translate and read your Spanish message). This mailing list is English (I'm not sure if similar ones exist for Spanish-speaking people) so I wouldn't say that the people on the list can be accused of behaving the same way as these 'txt'ers. While Spanish is a very popular language, English is by far the most popular language of the world, being spoken as a main language (not necessarily the mother tongue though) in more countries than any other. It's also the most popular second language for those that don't speak it as a main language. I think the main point of this thread was to point out the issue of those who use 'txt spk' for normal conversations. It makes a bit of sense to do this for phone text messages, and is only natural that it came to be (character limits on a message, easier to type on a phone, etc) but there should be no excuse for posters on this list. It takes barely any more time to type 'you' instead of 'u', but trying to read a message full of stuff like that, I get a migrane and feel disinclined to help out purely because it takes too much effort to understand! Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] IRC and English
At 3:27 PM +0100 9/1/09, Ashley Sheridan wrote: On Tue, 2009-09-01 at 11:16 -0300, Martin Scotta wrote: -snip- Martin Scotta Spanish Speaker I disagree (and I did translate and read your Spanish message). This mailing list is English (I'm not sure if similar ones exist for Spanish-speaking people) so I wouldn't say that the people on the list can be accused of behaving the same way as these 'txt'ers. While Spanish is a very popular language, English is by far the most popular language of the world, being spoken as a main language (not necessarily the mother tongue though) in more countries than any other. It's also the most popular second language for those that don't speak it as a main language. I think the main point of this thread was to point out the issue of those who use 'txt spk' for normal conversations. It makes a bit of sense to do this for phone text messages, and is only natural that it came to be (character limits on a message, easier to type on a phone, etc) but there should be no excuse for posters on this list. It takes barely any more time to type 'you' instead of 'u', but trying to read a message full of stuff like that, I get a migrane and feel disinclined to help out purely because it takes too much effort to understand! Thanks, Ash Ash: I agree with you -- this was not a slam against non-English speaking people but rather a compliant against those who are too lazy to type out you (instead shorten it to u). My take on this is, programming does not allow you to take liberties with syntax, you must spell exactly as you are required. Likewise, don't take such liberties with this list. In short, if you want us to take the time to understand your problem, then don't make our work harder by requiring us to first figure out the syntax of your question. I ignore anyone using shortened words, such as u instead of you. I figure that they don't want to take the time to ask correctly, then I don't want to take the time to figure out what they are asking. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] IRC and English
From: Luke 2009/9/1 Martin Scotta martinsco...@gmail.com On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 9:44 AM, tedd tedd.sperl...@gmail.com wrote: At 9:06 PM -0400 8/31/09, Paul M Foster wrote: I'm sorry, but is anyone else annoyed by people who attempt to use IRC jargon on mailing lists? For example, substituting u for you. Oddly enough, I'm seeing this primarily in foreign language posters, not in native English speakers. It's often accompanied by English so broken I don't even bother trying to decypher it, and sometimes an *attitude* (after which, I blacklist the poster). Am I the only one? It's okay if I am. Just wondering. Paul Paul: u r not the only 1. I h8 that 2! l8er :) tedd Yo estoy de acuerdo en que respetar el idioma es importante, aunque claro, redactando sobre la computadora tiene ciertos beneficios. Yo, por ejemplo, evito utilizar acentos. Entiendo que pueda molestarles el hecho de las comunes abreviaturas. Eso es lo malo del lenguaje. Es de todos y, al mismo tiempo, de nadie. Nadie puede cambiarlo individualmente, sólo se puede mutar a través de su uso por parte la población, éste va cambiando día a día. Lamentablemente, a mi modo de ver, los mas jóvenes son quienes incurren en este tipo de acciones, y no se reduce solamente al ingles, creo que este fenómeno se da tambien en otros lenguajes (supongo) impulsado por la deficiencia de los métodos de ingreso de texto de dispositivos moviles. ¿Por que utilizo el español? Después de todo hay una lista para ello. El mundo en internet esté en ingles y yo, como hispano-hablante debi pasar por un proceso de varios años para poder lograr entender, hablar y luego redactar en ingles. ¿pasaron ustedes por el mismo proceso para participar en esta lista? Aqui somos muchos, de diferentes paises y culturas, lo importante -a mi modo de ver- es la comunicación, no el medio o la forma. Con lo cual esta recriminación carece totalmente de sentido. Es realmente triste que en una lista de un lenguaje de codigo abierto que pregona la libre participación y el mutuo beneficio a través de compartir conocimiento se realize semejante acotación; aunque mucho mas triste es que una persona oficialmente perteneciente a dicha comunidad se sume a dicho reclamo. Please do not reply that It's a English based list. Or is it allowed to discriminate here? As a non-english speaker I feel very uncomfortable with this thread. With the best intentions for the community, sincerely yours, Martin Scotta Spanish Speaker I don't think we were implicating anyone in particular for this kind of behaviour, Martin, I'm certainly not. I'm a 'young person' myself (being 17) and do not under any circumstances write in such a way purely because it's harder to understand. To be honest, on this list it is mostly the foreign people that tend to use 'u' and such, is it discriminatory to state a fact? -- Luke Slater But is it a fact that can be verified and documented or merely a common impression? Be that as it may, the purpose of this list is to communicate. We all come here to get or give help. It is difficult to do that when questions or answers are not expressed clearly. If it is too difficult to read the question, fewer people are likely to make an effort to understand it well enough to reply. So the more effort that goes into making a request readable, the more likely there will be useful replies. This is a trade off that many of us have to make every day, no matter what language(s) we are comfortable with. Ever hold a verbal conversation with a Texan, a Bostonian and an Australian all at once? But often even English speakers have problems expressing themselves in written form. It appears to me that most high schools in the USofA stopped teaching grammar sometime in the late 1970's. This is actually one of the better lists that I read regularly. Texting abbreviations are simply the most recent form of corruption. 133t 5p34k is even worse. Don't even get me started on homonyms. Bob McConnell -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] IRC and English
On Tue, 2009-09-01 at 11:05 -0400, Bob McConnell wrote: From: Luke 2009/9/1 Martin Scotta martinsco...@gmail.com On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 9:44 AM, tedd tedd.sperl...@gmail.com wrote: At 9:06 PM -0400 8/31/09, Paul M Foster wrote: I'm sorry, but is anyone else annoyed by people who attempt to use IRC jargon on mailing lists? For example, substituting u for you. Oddly enough, I'm seeing this primarily in foreign language posters, not in native English speakers. It's often accompanied by English so broken I don't even bother trying to decypher it, and sometimes an *attitude* (after which, I blacklist the poster). Am I the only one? It's okay if I am. Just wondering. Paul Paul: u r not the only 1. I h8 that 2! l8er :) tedd Yo estoy de acuerdo en que respetar el idioma es importante, aunque claro, redactando sobre la computadora tiene ciertos beneficios. Yo, por ejemplo, evito utilizar acentos. Entiendo que pueda molestarles el hecho de las comunes abreviaturas. Eso es lo malo del lenguaje. Es de todos y, al mismo tiempo, de nadie. Nadie puede cambiarlo individualmente, sólo se puede mutar a través de su uso por parte la población, éste va cambiando día a día. Lamentablemente, a mi modo de ver, los mas jóvenes son quienes incurren en este tipo de acciones, y no se reduce solamente al ingles, creo que este fenómeno se da tambien en otros lenguajes (supongo) impulsado por la deficiencia de los métodos de ingreso de texto de dispositivos moviles. ¿Por que utilizo el español? Después de todo hay una lista para ello. El mundo en internet esté en ingles y yo, como hispano-hablante debi pasar por un proceso de varios años para poder lograr entender, hablar y luego redactar en ingles. ¿pasaron ustedes por el mismo proceso para participar en esta lista? Aqui somos muchos, de diferentes paises y culturas, lo importante -a mi modo de ver- es la comunicación, no el medio o la forma. Con lo cual esta recriminación carece totalmente de sentido. Es realmente triste que en una lista de un lenguaje de codigo abierto que pregona la libre participación y el mutuo beneficio a través de compartir conocimiento se realize semejante acotación; aunque mucho mas triste es que una persona oficialmente perteneciente a dicha comunidad se sume a dicho reclamo. Please do not reply that It's a English based list. Or is it allowed to discriminate here? As a non-english speaker I feel very uncomfortable with this thread. With the best intentions for the community, sincerely yours, Martin Scotta Spanish Speaker I don't think we were implicating anyone in particular for this kind of behaviour, Martin, I'm certainly not. I'm a 'young person' myself (being 17) and do not under any circumstances write in such a way purely because it's harder to understand. To be honest, on this list it is mostly the foreign people that tend to use 'u' and such, is it discriminatory to state a fact? -- Luke Slater But is it a fact that can be verified and documented or merely a common impression? Be that as it may, the purpose of this list is to communicate. We all come here to get or give help. It is difficult to do that when questions or answers are not expressed clearly. If it is too difficult to read the question, fewer people are likely to make an effort to understand it well enough to reply. So the more effort that goes into making a request readable, the more likely there will be useful replies. This is a trade off that many of us have to make every day, no matter what language(s) we are comfortable with. Ever hold a verbal conversation with a Texan, a Bostonian and an Australian all at once? But often even English speakers have problems expressing themselves in written form. It appears to me that most high schools in the USofA stopped teaching grammar sometime in the late 1970's. This is actually one of the better lists that I read regularly. Texting abbreviations are simply the most recent form of corruption. 133t 5p34k is even worse. Don't even get me started on homonyms. Bob McConnell I don't think homonyms are the main problem, I believe it's homophones. I see a lot of people use there, their and they're interchangeably. The one that really gets my goat though, is 'loose' and 'lose'. Very different words, but to many people, they might as well be the same! Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] IRC and English
At 11:16 AM -0300 9/1/09, Martin Scotta wrote: As a non-english speaker I feel very uncomfortable with this thread. You shouldn't feel uncomfortable because no one is talking about you. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] IRC and English
On Tue, 2009-09-01 at 13:33 -0400, tedd wrote: At 11:16 AM -0300 9/1/09, Martin Scotta wrote: As a non-english speaker I feel very uncomfortable with this thread. You shouldn't feel uncomfortable because no one is talking about you. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com I'll second that, I've not once seen you use txt spk, 744t speak, or any other abominable mess that passes for language these days! Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] IRC and English
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 13:36, Ashley Sheridana...@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote: I'll second that, I've not once seen you use txt spk, 744t speak, or any other abominable mess that passes for language these days! 744t speak is that like 733t speak 2.0? ;-P -- /Daniel P. Brown daniel.br...@parasane.net || danbr...@php.net http://www.parasane.net/ || http://www.pilotpig.net/ Check out our great hosting and dedicated server deals at http://twitter.com/pilotpig -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] IRC and English
On Tue, 2009-09-01 at 14:07 -0400, Daniel Brown wrote: On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 13:36, Ashley Sheridana...@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote: I'll second that, I've not once seen you use txt spk, 744t speak, or any other abominable mess that passes for language these days! 744t speak is that like 733t speak 2.0? ;-P Yeah, but the newer version... Damnit, my typing has degraded a little after 11 hours! Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
Re: [PHP] IRC and English
As a monolingual North American, I am also very uncomfortable with this thread. A rant about abbreviations/IRC jargon is an appropriate discussion for list, but criticizing how non-native English speakers write English is not. This thread began with a mention of the attitude that non-native English speakers have, as if non-native English speakers are a unified group that are are more likely to have a bad attitude than native English speakers. Of course such a generalization could make people uncomfortable. -jessi tedd wrote: At 11:16 AM -0300 9/1/09, Martin Scotta wrote: As a non-english speaker I feel very uncomfortable with this thread. You shouldn't feel uncomfortable because no one is talking about you. Cheers, tedd Daniel Brown wrote: On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 21:06, Paul M Fosterpa...@quillandmouse.com wrote: I'm sorry, but is anyone else annoyed by people who attempt to use IRC jargon on mailing lists? For example, substituting u for you. Oddly enough, I'm seeing this primarily in foreign language posters, not in native English speakers. It's often accompanied by English so broken I don't even bother trying to decypher it, and sometimes an *attitude* (after which, I blacklist the poster). Am I the only one? It's okay if I am. Just wondering. Same here, Paul. You're correct in associating it primarily with non-native-English speakers, as well. Worse still: they use that same language in professional job proposals. Worse beyond that: they are selected for said jobs. I've dropped clients because they have put me onto a team with folks like that. Sort of cutting out the bottom of the barrel, really. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] IRC and English
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 17:02, Jessi Berkelhammerjberkelham...@desc.org wrote: As a monolingual North American, I am also very uncomfortable with this thread. A rant about abbreviations/IRC jargon is an appropriate discussion for list, but criticizing how non-native English speakers write English is not. This thread began with a mention of the attitude that non-native English speakers have, as if non-native English speakers are a unified group that are are more likely to have a bad attitude than native English speakers. Of course such a generalization could make people uncomfortable. If you're going to quote me in your email, at least don't insinuate that I've said something that I haven't, Jessi. -- /Daniel P. Brown daniel.br...@parasane.net || danbr...@php.net http://www.parasane.net/ || http://www.pilotpig.net/ Check out our great hosting and dedicated server deals at http://twitter.com/pilotpig -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] IRC and English
On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 02:02:31PM -0700, Jessi Berkelhammer wrote: As a monolingual North American, I am also very uncomfortable with this thread. A rant about abbreviations/IRC jargon is an appropriate discussion for list, but criticizing how non-native English speakers write English is not. This thread began with a mention of the attitude that non-native English speakers have, as if non-native English speakers are a unified group that are are more likely to have a bad attitude than native English speakers. Of course such a generalization could make people uncomfortable. I would argue that it's perfectly acceptable to criticize how non-native English speakers write English. But that's neither here nor there. You've clearly misread or misunderstood the original post, so let's parse it: I'm sorry, but is anyone else annoyed by people who attempt to use IRC jargon on mailing lists? Just a question, aimed at no one in particular, but expressing annoyance. For example, substituting 'u' for 'you'. Just a statement to clarify the original proposition. Oddly enough, I'm seeing this primarily in foreign language posters, not in native English speakers. Again, an observation. It does not say *all* foreign language posters are doing this. It only says that I've observed this *primarily* in foreign language posters. It doesn't say foreign language posters are bad or inferior, or even that they're part of al Qaeda. Just that I've noticed this trend in foreign language posters mostly. It's often accompanied by English so broken I don't even bother trying to decypher it, Another observation. It points out that where I've seen IRC-like idioms in foreign language posters, I've also *often* observed very poor English. Not *always*, but *often*. Again, I'm not disparaging all foreign language posters. and sometimes an *attitude* (after which, I blacklist the poster). Another observation. So we have the set of IRC-idiom posters. Of those (according to my post) *primarily* they are foreign language posters. So foreign language posters who post IRC-idioms are a large subset of IRC-idiom posters. Of *that* subset, I *often* see very broken English (a subset of the subset). And *sometimes* I see an attitude accompanying the posts (a subset of the subset of the subset). Okay? If your native language is English, the above should have been clear in the first place. And if it's not English, then I've just done you the favor of parsing it for you. (You can send cash to thank me. ;-) Paul -- Paul M. Foster -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] IRC and English
At 2:02 PM -0700 9/1/09, Jessi Berkelhammer wrote: As a monolingual North American, I am also very uncomfortable with this thread. A rant about abbreviations/IRC jargon is an appropriate discussion for list, but criticizing how non-native English speakers write English is not. This thread began with a mention of the attitude that non-native English speakers have, as if non-native English speakers are a unified group that are are more likely to have a bad attitude than native English speakers. Of course such a generalization could make people uncomfortable. -jessi tedd wrote: At 11:16 AM -0300 9/1/09, Martin Scotta wrote: As a non-english speaker I feel very uncomfortable with this thread. You shouldn't feel uncomfortable because no one is talking about you. As a fellow monolingual North American, I feel very uncomfortable about your statement as well. Does any other monolingual North American feel the same way as I do? Please expound on your feelings about this most disheartening and distasteful topic. (Boy has this thread degenerated into some politically correct bullsh#t, huh?) Look if you are not the one using u as a substitute for you, then I don't see any support for the discomfort you may feel about this thread. But you are free to feel as it is your nature (shudder). If non-English users (or anyone else for that matter) want to use u for you that's fine -- but I'll refrain from helping them as well. I am sure that if I were writing in their language and shortened it to uncomprehending gibberish, I would receive the same treatment from them. Why is this so hard to understand -- am I using words that are two lengthy? Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] IRC and English
I'm sorry, but is anyone else annoyed by people who attempt to use IRC jargon on mailing lists? For example, substituting u for you. Oddly enough, I'm seeing this primarily in foreign language posters, not in native English speakers. It's often accompanied by English so broken I don't even bother trying to decypher it, and sometimes an *attitude* (after which, I blacklist the poster). Am I the only one? It's okay if I am. Just wondering. Paul -- Paul M. Foster -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] IRC and English
Paul M Foster wrote: I'm sorry, but is anyone else annoyed by people who attempt to use IRC jargon on mailing lists? For example, substituting u for you. Oddly enough, I'm seeing this primarily in foreign language posters, not in native English speakers. It's often accompanied by English so broken I don't even bother trying to decypher it, and sometimes an *attitude* (after which, I blacklist the poster). Am I the only one? It's okay if I am. Just wondering. IRC ?? I haven't used that in years. :) More likely it is the habits learned in texting carrying over to email. Stephen -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] IRC and English
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 21:06, Paul M Fosterpa...@quillandmouse.com wrote: I'm sorry, but is anyone else annoyed by people who attempt to use IRC jargon on mailing lists? For example, substituting u for you. Oddly enough, I'm seeing this primarily in foreign language posters, not in native English speakers. It's often accompanied by English so broken I don't even bother trying to decypher it, and sometimes an *attitude* (after which, I blacklist the poster). Am I the only one? It's okay if I am. Just wondering. Same here, Paul. You're correct in associating it primarily with non-native-English speakers, as well. Worse still: they use that same language in professional job proposals. Worse beyond that: they are selected for said jobs. I've dropped clients because they have put me onto a team with folks like that. Sort of cutting out the bottom of the barrel, really. -- /Daniel P. Brown daniel.br...@parasane.net || danbr...@php.net http://www.parasane.net/ || http://www.pilotpig.net/ Check out our great hosting and dedicated server deals at http://twitter.com/pilotpig -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] IRC and English
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 09:10:54PM -0400, Stephen wrote: Paul M Foster wrote: I'm sorry, but is anyone else annoyed by people who attempt to use IRC jargon on mailing lists? For example, substituting u for you. Oddly enough, I'm seeing this primarily in foreign language posters, not in native English speakers. It's often accompanied by English so broken I don't even bother trying to decypher it, and sometimes an *attitude* (after which, I blacklist the poster). Am I the only one? It's okay if I am. Just wondering. IRC ?? I haven't used that in years. :) More likely it is the habits learned in texting carrying over to email. I don't text, and seldom IRC, but you're probably right. I think the jargon is about the same, though probably expanded in texting. Paul -- Paul M. Foster -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
