Re: [PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
Stut wrote: Just wanted to pick you up on this. PHP is the only language you've listed that only has a single implementation. There are implementations of C++ compilers that are writting in other languages. I can't speak for Java since I have little experience but I'd be surprised if all implementations are written in C. one thing thats nice about java is it has a formal specification. so in creating alternative implementations they can be certified against the spec by sun. i think thats another big plus of java. they are high level, and although php allows you to write proceedrual code, i think it is best used from an oop paradigm. This would be a personal choice. Just like C++ allows you to write procedural code there are times when OOP makes sense and times when procedural is better. It's a choice that should be left up to the developer, and the argument over whether OOP is better than procedural is not winnable. It's in the same league as PHP vs Python. unfortunately im a bit rusty w/ my c++; but looking a java the only way to write procedural code is to place it in a method called main inside of a class. does that count as procedural or does it count as oop ?? when i say oop paradigm i refer to the overall design of an application, or framework. said app consists largely of objects; each w/ a focused purpose, the methods of which are also small and have a focused purpose. *sigh* i dont care to get into this debate again. in my mind its clear oop is superior to strictly procedural programming, but alas you are probably right. so whats the use in arguing ..? -nathan
Re: [PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
Nathan Nobbe wrote: look at C++, Java, and PHP. these languages are all written in C; Just wanted to pick you up on this. PHP is the only language you've listed that only has a single implementation. There are implementations of C++ compilers that are writting in other languages. I can't speak for Java since I have little experience but I'd be surprised if all implementations are written in C. PHP could easily (although lengthily) be re-implemented in another language, including PHP itself if you were sufficiently mad. they are high level, and although php allows you to write proceedrual code, i think it is best used from an oop paradigm. This would be a personal choice. Just like C++ allows you to write procedural code there are times when OOP makes sense and times when procedural is better. It's a choice that should be left up to the developer, and the argument over whether OOP is better than procedural is not winnable. It's in the same league as PHP vs Python. -Stut -- http://stut.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
On Fri, August 24, 2007 10:11 am, Steve Brown wrote: html head titlePHP Web Server Test/title /head body ?php phpinfo(); ? /body /html phpinfo(), which should never be called in a production setting, is quite possibly the worst benchmark function you could choose. :-) :-) :-) I ran ab in a loop 12 times with 10,000 connections and a concurrency of 10. Then I threw out the highest result and the lowest result and averaged the remaining values. Both PHP4 (v 4.4.7) and PHP5 (v 5.2.3) were built as Apache modules, and I simply changed Apache's config file to swap modules. The results were somewhat surprising to me: on average, PHP4 significantly outperformed PHP5. Over our LAN PHP5 handled roughly 1,200 requests / sec while PHP4 handled over 1,800 requests / sec. Since everything I have heard/read is that PHP5 is much faster than PHP4, I expected the opposite to be true, but the numbers are what they are. Also PHP on Apache1 was much faster than on Apache2. The only difference I can figure is that PHP5 was the packaged version that comes with Ubuntu and I had to compile PHP4 from source since there is no package for it in Feisty. But I wouldn't expect a 50% increase as a result of that. Any thoughts on this? Which PHP on Apache1 vs Apache2 did you try? PHP5 is probably faster for OOP code more than anything, as that's where most of the development work went. Well, that and some good XML processing. -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
On Sat, August 25, 2007 9:45 am, Robert Cummings wrote: PHP4 AND PHP5 developers don't even use OOP. Tell me what is compelling in PHP5 that doesn't rely on you being an OOP developer? The XML stuff, if you need to parse XML a lot, which is not exactly a niche market, but not everybody needs it either. That said: PHP 4 end of shelf life is just that. It's software that you're simply going to see less and less of as fewer and fewer hosts/distros use it. If you analyze the situation more carefully, I think you'll find that the statistics about PHP 4 versus PHP 5 adoption are pretty skewed by large-scale webhosts that are offering PHP 5 now, but aren't pushing their clients to move to a new box with PHP 5, nor upgrading to PHP 5 on the box they are using. Will they start pushing their clients or upgrading PHP out from under them? Probably some of both. Will PHP 4 suddenly disappear from the face of the Earth in December? Or course not. Should you jump through hoops to write new code that works in both 4 and 5? Probably not, as PHP 5 is readily available to anybody. Should your old code that runs on 4 be made to run on 5? Maybe not today, or even tomorrow, but unless you want to co-lo your own box with software for which even Security updates aren't available after Aug 8, 2008 (I think that's the date), then, yeah, you probably should re-write any code that won't run on 5. Of which there probably won't be very much at all. -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
On Sat, August 25, 2007 11:56 am, Nathan Nobbe wrote: so we would really have to dig deeper for a definition of 'basic oop' / 'true oop' etc. I'll consider PHP true OOP when PECL has a Lisp extension for me to write REAL oop code :-) Actually, that could be a kind of fun extension to write... Does anybody else here remember the days of old when PHP 4 OOP was real OOP and PHP 3 OOP was just glorified structs with functions attached? Ah, the joys of sitting through endless silly threads on PHP-General. I'm so glad we don't have those anymore... :-) -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
i dont know Robert; i think it depends upon the structure of ones business. for instance; i work for a company full time, and have a start up of my own. in both of those situations there is no impact on the client in the act of eliminating php4 from the product implementation. the clients never use the code directly. perhaps you are in some different business?? also, there are many, many enhancements to php5 that php4 does not have. most notably the oop facilities. but also, exception handling; re-written XML infrastructure (SimpleXML, DOM) and a host of new functions not found in 4. also, the __autoload feature, and even external tools such as SPL make php5 far superior to php4, imho :) if its a little slower, i dont really care; ill be using optimization techniques and have them mastered w/in the next few months so any innate speed difference will become negligible in my projects. i probly shouldnt use the word idiot and php4 in conjunction, to reflect my feelings because i might actaullly offend some people on the list :) -nathan On 8/25/07, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 2007-08-25 at 00:28 -0500, Larry Garfield wrote: On Friday 24 August 2007, Lester Caine wrote: What would be interesting is if a group picked up PHP4 and kept going with it in spite of the end of life announcement a few weeks back. I wonder if the PHP license would allow such a thing. How open is it exactly? The PROBLEM is that supporting PHP4, 5 and now 6 is detracting from solving some of these problems. Until we can get away from HAVING to support PHP4, then PHP5 will not get the full fine tuning it needs. Proposing to maintain a branch of PHP4 will then result n people expecting all of the major frameworks to work on it - and WE need to be able to concentrate on USING PHP5 properly rather than having to bodge things still to be backwards compatible with PHP4 :( The major frameworks have already agreed that PHP 4 is dead, even before the PHP dev team did. http://gophp5.org/ *yawn* Anyone expecting anything but a custom in-house application to continue to work in PHP 4 by next year is simply not paying attention. Let it rest in peace. I think many applications will continue to work in PHP4 regardless of the gophp5 project. It's not very hard to make applications work in both PHP4 and PHP5. I would argue that only an idiot needlessly cuts off more than half of their clientele. Elimination of PHP4 updates doesn't mean suddenly 100% of the PHP install base becomes PHP5. Cheers, Rob. -- ... SwarmBuy.com - http://www.swarmbuy.com Leveraging the buying power of the masses! ... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
On Sat, 2007-08-25 at 09:38 -0400, Nathan Nobbe wrote: i dont know Robert; i think it depends upon the structure of ones business. for instance; i work for a company full time, and have a start up of my own. in both of those situations there is no impact on the client in the act of eliminating php4 from the product implementation. the clients never use the code directly. perhaps you are in some different business?? Larry used the words anything but custom in-house, so you particular situation is exactly that your particular situation. There will be countless non-custom-in-house applications that will continue being compatible with PHP4 just because it's easy. also, there are many, many enhancements to php5 that php4 does not have. most notably the oop facilities. but also, exception handling; re-written XML infrastructure (SimpleXML, DOM) and a host of new functions not found in 4. also, the __autoload feature, and even external tools such as SPL make php5 far superior to php4, imho :) Says who? Says you and myriad of others that sell sugar and hype. Just because there's a big fat tasty dolop of icing on the cake doesn't mean you have to eat it. It's the cake that makes the cake, icing is just extra. if its a little slower, i dont really care; ill be using optimization techniques and have them mastered w/in the next few months so any innate speed difference will become negligible in my projects. Optimization here isn't the issue. Neither was features. Unless you abolsutely must use a PHP 5 only feature, why limit yourself to PHP5? I've yet to find myself absolutely needing a PHP5 feature and yet my apps work both in PHP4 and PHP5. *shrug* I really don't care what you do, or what Larry does, I'm just saying that just because the gophp5 group says php5 is the shit, doesn't mean everyone will jump on their bandwagon and suddenly ignore PHP4. Cheers, Rob. -- ... SwarmBuy.com - http://www.swarmbuy.com Leveraging the buying power of the masses! ... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
yes, i agree, people wont be all-of-a-sudden ignoring php4, but the notice on php.net says to migrate apps to 5 through the rest of the yaer. id say thats ample time to move away from it. pretty much all of my applications rely on php5 features except those where the system was running on php4 when i arrived. and then i have to rely upon contriving mechanisms that are already integrated into 5. plus i place comments where i could be placing keywords. the success of an application using objects in php4 relies heavily on communitcdation w/in the team, whereas w/ php5 the communication can occur w/in the code using keywords. im sure php4 applications can be very robust, but why bother rewriting things that are available at the language level as they are in 5; and praying that someone doesnt call a method because they didnt bother to read the comments.. -nathan On 8/25/07, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 2007-08-25 at 09:38 -0400, Nathan Nobbe wrote: i dont know Robert; i think it depends upon the structure of ones business. for instance; i work for a company full time, and have a start up of my own. in both of those situations there is no impact on the client in the act of eliminating php4 from the product implementation. the clients never use the code directly. perhaps you are in some different business?? Larry used the words anything but custom in-house, so you particular situation is exactly that your particular situation. There will be countless non-custom-in-house applications that will continue being compatible with PHP4 just because it's easy. also, there are many, many enhancements to php5 that php4 does not have. most notably the oop facilities. but also, exception handling; re-written XML infrastructure (SimpleXML, DOM) and a host of new functions not found in 4. also, the __autoload feature, and even external tools such as SPL make php5 far superior to php4, imho :) Says who? Says you and myriad of others that sell sugar and hype. Just because there's a big fat tasty dolop of icing on the cake doesn't mean you have to eat it. It's the cake that makes the cake, icing is just extra. if its a little slower, i dont really care; ill be using optimization techniques and have them mastered w/in the next few months so any innate speed difference will become negligible in my projects. Optimization here isn't the issue. Neither was features. Unless you abolsutely must use a PHP 5 only feature, why limit yourself to PHP5? I've yet to find myself absolutely needing a PHP5 feature and yet my apps work both in PHP4 and PHP5. *shrug* I really don't care what you do, or what Larry does, I'm just saying that just because the gophp5 group says php5 is the shit, doesn't mean everyone will jump on their bandwagon and suddenly ignore PHP4. Cheers, Rob. -- ... SwarmBuy.com - http://www.swarmbuy.com Leveraging the buying power of the masses! ...
Re: [PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
On Sat, 2007-08-25 at 10:33 -0400, Nathan Nobbe wrote: yes, i agree, people wont be all-of-a-sudden ignoring php4, but the notice on php.net says to migrate apps to 5 through the rest of the yaer. id say thats ample time to move away from it. Migrate doesn't necessarily mean ditching PHP4 compatibility. It means ensuring you are PHP5 compatible. That's reasonable. pretty much all of my applications rely on php5 features except those where the system was running on php4 when i arrived. and then i have to rely upon contriving mechanisms that are already integrated into 5. plus i place comments where i could be placing keywords. the success of an application using objects in php4 relies heavily on communitcdation w/in the team, whereas w/ php5 the communication can occur w/in the code using keywords. im sure php4 applications can be very robust, but why bother rewriting things that are available at the language level as they are in 5; and praying that someone doesnt call a method because they didnt bother to read the comments.. Rewriting? You're assuming developers of PHP4 are using all of the features in PHP5 but written using PHP4 code. That's not a very valid assumption. You're also assuming they didn't already have code written in PHP4 that was then duplicated b internal code in PHP5. Hell, many PHP4 AND PHP5 developers don't even use OOP. Tell me what is compelling in PHP5 that doesn't rely on you being an OOP developer? Exceptions don't count since that's an individual bent. C has no exceptions and it gets on fine (PHP is written in it :) Cheers, Rob. -- ... SwarmBuy.com - http://www.swarmbuy.com Leveraging the buying power of the masses! ... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
Robert, C is a low-level language whereas php is a high level language. ill admit it openly, i am biased toward oop / design patterns. and i think what i boils down to is what you view as 'icing' i view as 'bread-and-butter' ;) personally i shudder when i see a big pile of usntructured code, or a bunch of functions that are loosly organized, if at all. this constitues most php applications i have seen in the industry of which i have been participating for roughly 3 yaers now. look at C++, Java, and PHP. these languages are all written in C; they are high level, and although php allows you to write proceedrual code, i think it is best used from an oop paradigm. -nathan On 8/25/07, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 2007-08-25 at 10:33 -0400, Nathan Nobbe wrote: yes, i agree, people wont be all-of-a-sudden ignoring php4, but the notice on php.net says to migrate apps to 5 through the rest of the yaer. id say thats ample time to move away from it. Migrate doesn't necessarily mean ditching PHP4 compatibility. It means ensuring you are PHP5 compatible. That's reasonable. pretty much all of my applications rely on php5 features except those where the system was running on php4 when i arrived. and then i have to rely upon contriving mechanisms that are already integrated into 5. plus i place comments where i could be placing keywords. the success of an application using objects in php4 relies heavily on communitcdation w/in the team, whereas w/ php5 the communication can occur w/in the code using keywords. im sure php4 applications can be very robust, but why bother rewriting things that are available at the language level as they are in 5; and praying that someone doesnt call a method because they didnt bother to read the comments.. Rewriting? You're assuming developers of PHP4 are using all of the features in PHP5 but written using PHP4 code. That's not a very valid assumption. You're also assuming they didn't already have code written in PHP4 that was then duplicated b internal code in PHP5. Hell, many PHP4 AND PHP5 developers don't even use OOP. Tell me what is compelling in PHP5 that doesn't rely on you being an OOP developer? Exceptions don't count since that's an individual bent. C has no exceptions and it gets on fine (PHP is written in it :) Cheers, Rob. -- ... SwarmBuy.com - http://www.swarmbuy.com Leveraging the buying power of the masses! ...
Re: [PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
On Sat, 2007-08-25 at 10:57 -0400, Nathan Nobbe wrote: Robert, C is a low-level language whereas php is a high level language. ill admit it openly, i am biased toward oop / design patterns. and i think what i boils down to is what you view as 'icing' i view as 'bread-and-butter' ;) I've pulled Larry out of the CC list BTW :) I also prefer OOP when developing in PHP. personally i shudder when i see a big pile of usntructured code, or a bunch of functions that are loosly organized, if at all. this constitues most php applications i have seen in the industry of which i have been participating for roughly 3 yaers now. Oh I'd have to agree. Many things I've downloaded and looked at make me want to gag. But, that's not a symptom of procedural code-- it's a symptom of poor coding design/skill/style/ethic. look at C++, Java, and PHP. these languages are all written in C; they are high level, and although php allows you to write proceedrual code, i think it is best used from an oop paradigm. That really depends. Just because we prefer to code in OOP in PHP, does not in anyway discount the merit of well written non OOP PHP code. Cheers, Rob. -- ... SwarmBuy.com - http://www.swarmbuy.com Leveraging the buying power of the masses! ... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
agreed :) On 8/25/07, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 2007-08-25 at 10:57 -0400, Nathan Nobbe wrote: Robert, C is a low-level language whereas php is a high level language. ill admit it openly, i am biased toward oop / design patterns. and i think what i boils down to is what you view as 'icing' i view as 'bread-and-butter' ;) I've pulled Larry out of the CC list BTW :) I also prefer OOP when developing in PHP. personally i shudder when i see a big pile of usntructured code, or a bunch of functions that are loosly organized, if at all. this constitues most php applications i have seen in the industry of which i have been participating for roughly 3 yaers now. Oh I'd have to agree. Many things I've downloaded and looked at make me want to gag. But, that's not a symptom of procedural code-- it's a symptom of poor coding design/skill/style/ethic. look at C++, Java, and PHP. these languages are all written in C; they are high level, and although php allows you to write proceedrual code, i think it is best used from an oop paradigm. That really depends. Just because we prefer to code in OOP in PHP, does not in anyway discount the merit of well written non OOP PHP code. Cheers, Rob. -- ... SwarmBuy.com - http://www.swarmbuy.com Leveraging the buying power of the masses! ...
Re: [PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
On Saturday 25 August 2007, Robert Cummings wrote: Rewriting? You're assuming developers of PHP4 are using all of the features in PHP5 but written using PHP4 code. That's not a very valid assumption. You're also assuming they didn't already have code written in PHP4 that was then duplicated b internal code in PHP5. Hell, many PHP4 AND PHP5 developers don't even use OOP. Tell me what is compelling in PHP5 that doesn't rely on you being an OOP developer? Exceptions don't count since that's an individual bent. C has no exceptions and it gets on fine (PHP is written in it :) Cheers, Rob. There is no way to respond to the above request, because you're automatically discounting features as an individual bent. That makes your position non-falsifiable (cannot be proven or disproven), and therefore irrelevant. What does PHP 5 offer? - Exceptions. No you don't have to use them, but they are a useful tool. - Real OOP. No, you don't have to use it, but it is a useful tool. - Prepared statements in MySQL (mysqli) or cross-database (PDO). You really should be using them! - filter extension. No you don't have to use it, but it's a useful tool for security. - SPL. You can leverage SPL without having a fully-OOP architecture. In fact, I find it most useful to be able to have my procedural cake and OOP icing, too. No, you don't have to use it, but it's a useful tool. - SimpleXML and the DOM extension. XML handling that doesn't suck ass. No you don't have to use them, but if you're doing anything with XML processing you will thank the gods that you did. - A few dozen new utility functions. Sure they could be/have been reimplemented in PHP 4 user-space, but they're not as fast as when implemented in C. That's just off the top of my head. PHP 5 offers a ton of extra tools that can be useful in many situations. If you're on a PHP 4 server, you have no choice but to not use them. If you're on a PHP 5 server, you can pick and choose which to use based on your use case and preferences. The GoPHP5 project is not about forcing people to use OOP. It's about ensuring that developers have a full tool box available to them when writing code. If you're still using PHP 4 now, then your tool box is only half-full. Get on PHP 5 to get the other half. The other factor is that those writing code that goes on servers they don't have absolute control over (I dare say most of us) are bound by *others'* refusal to upgrade to PHP 5. If I'm on a shared host, I'm stuck with whatever that host is running, even if it's ancient. Supporting PHP 4 hurts PHP 5 developers. Supporting PHP 5 does not hurt PHP 4 developers. That's the problem. For more info: http://gophp5.org/faq -- Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 6817012 If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. -- Thomas Jefferson -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
On Sat, 2007-08-25 at 11:09 -0500, Larry Garfield wrote: On Saturday 25 August 2007, Robert Cummings wrote: Rewriting? You're assuming developers of PHP4 are using all of the features in PHP5 but written using PHP4 code. That's not a very valid assumption. You're also assuming they didn't already have code written in PHP4 that was then duplicated b internal code in PHP5. Hell, many PHP4 AND PHP5 developers don't even use OOP. Tell me what is compelling in PHP5 that doesn't rely on you being an OOP developer? Exceptions don't count since that's an individual bent. C has no exceptions and it gets on fine (PHP is written in it :) Cheers, Rob. There is no way to respond to the above request, because you're automatically discounting features as an individual bent. That makes your position non-falsifiable (cannot be proven or disproven), and therefore irrelevant. I'm indicating that features should not be the sole basis of the argument since they are indeed an individual bent. As such it helps to focus the argument to what is important-- the efficacy of PHP4 versus the efficacy of PHP5. Thus my position is open to falsifiability and not as you say irrelevant. What does PHP 5 offer? - Exceptions. No you don't have to use them, but they are a useful tool. - Real OOP. No, you don't have to use it, but it is a useful tool. Ooh, the magical Real OOP. Please go find me a definition of Real OOP. PHP4 is as real OOP as any other OOP. Just because it lacks some devices available in other OOP implementation does not disqualify it in any way from being OOP. - Prepared statements in MySQL (mysqli) or cross-database (PDO). You really should be using them! There are pros and cons to prepared statements: Sometimes prepared statements can actually be slower than regular queries. The reason for this is that there are two round-trips to the server, which can slow down simple queries that are only executed a single time. In cases like that, one has to decide if it is worth trading off the performance impact of this extra round-trip in order to gain the security benefits of using prepared statements. Any conscious developer can properly escape their queries to be secure. While PDO offers access to features that are not common to all DBs it does so in a non-portable way as would be expected. As such it's just another database abstraction layer. It's quite simple to write wrap this in a pre-existing PHP encoded database abstraction layer. - filter extension. No you don't have to use it, but it's a useful tool for security. Sure, but you can filter your variables for security without it. - SPL. You can leverage SPL without having a fully-OOP architecture. In fact, I find it most useful to be able to have my procedural cake and OOP icing, too. No, you don't have to use it, but it's a useful tool. But it doesn't offer much to a fully procedural architecture. - SimpleXML and the DOM extension. XML handling that doesn't suck ass. No you don't have to use them, but if you're doing anything with XML processing you will thank the gods that you did. I already have an XML API that works fine in PHP4. - A few dozen new utility functions. Sure they could be/have been reimplemented in PHP 4 user-space, but they're not as fast as when implemented in C. True, but that's a compatibility / performance tradeoff. And there doesn't need to be a tradeoff. You can test for PHP4 and include the PHP versions if PHP4 is active. Otherwise default to PHP5 C implementations. That's just off the top of my head. PHP 5 offers a ton of extra tools that can be useful in many situations. Sure it offers a ton of extra tools, but there may be a ton of libraries abandoned that haven't been made compatible with PHP5. Although I must admit it's quite easy to make code PHP5 compatible. If you're on a PHP 4 server, you have no choice but to not use them. If you're on a PHP 5 server, you can pick and choose which to use based on your use case and preferences. The GoPHP5 project is not about forcing people to use OOP. It's about ensuring that developers have a full tool box available to them when writing code. If you're still using PHP 4 now, then your tool box is only half-full. Get on PHP 5 to get the other half. I never said gophp5 was about forcing the use of OOP. It just strikes me as an unnecessary push when market forces will perform the appropriate pushing at the appropriate time. GOPHP5 is an artifical push for a faster move towards an inevitable future. The other factor is that those writing code that goes on servers they don't have absolute control over (I dare say most of us) are bound by *others'* refusal to upgrade to PHP 5. If I'm on a shared host, I'm stuck with whatever that host is running, even if it's ancient. I've nothing against running your stuff in PHP5, nothing against it at all. But I don't see what the
Re: [PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
i know this thread started off about a performance comparison, but it is already grown into much more. suffice it to say that i consider the oop capacity of php4 nothing more than a stepping stone on the way to php5. i dont know of all the oop languages out there. mostly i have worked w/ c++ and java (and a little .net and a tiny bit of delphi) when it comes to oop. all of those languages have ppp; which i consider to be fundamental to an oop language; but alas php is not an oop language; it merely supporst features of an oop language. per statements on php.net. then again javascript is supposedly oop, and i know it doesnt support ppp; so we would really have to dig deeper for a definition of 'basic oop' / 'true oop' etc. from a personal standpoint i have been leraning how to leverage the power of the interface construct for 1. on top of that, well i think no ppp is madness... but again, thats nothing formal :) -nathan On 8/25/07, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 2007-08-25 at 11:09 -0500, Larry Garfield wrote: On Saturday 25 August 2007, Robert Cummings wrote: Rewriting? You're assuming developers of PHP4 are using all of the features in PHP5 but written using PHP4 code. That's not a very valid assumption. You're also assuming they didn't already have code written in PHP4 that was then duplicated b internal code in PHP5. Hell, many PHP4 AND PHP5 developers don't even use OOP. Tell me what is compelling in PHP5 that doesn't rely on you being an OOP developer? Exceptions don't count since that's an individual bent. C has no exceptions and it gets on fine (PHP is written in it :) Cheers, Rob. There is no way to respond to the above request, because you're automatically discounting features as an individual bent. That makes your position non-falsifiable (cannot be proven or disproven), and therefore irrelevant. I'm indicating that features should not be the sole basis of the argument since they are indeed an individual bent. As such it helps to focus the argument to what is important-- the efficacy of PHP4 versus the efficacy of PHP5. Thus my position is open to falsifiability and not as you say irrelevant. What does PHP 5 offer? - Exceptions. No you don't have to use them, but they are a useful tool. - Real OOP. No, you don't have to use it, but it is a useful tool. Ooh, the magical Real OOP. Please go find me a definition of Real OOP. PHP4 is as real OOP as any other OOP. Just because it lacks some devices available in other OOP implementation does not disqualify it in any way from being OOP. - Prepared statements in MySQL (mysqli) or cross-database (PDO). You really should be using them! There are pros and cons to prepared statements: Sometimes prepared statements can actually be slower than regular queries. The reason for this is that there are two round-trips to the server, which can slow down simple queries that are only executed a single time. In cases like that, one has to decide if it is worth trading off the performance impact of this extra round-trip in order to gain the security benefits of using prepared statements. Any conscious developer can properly escape their queries to be secure. While PDO offers access to features that are not common to all DBs it does so in a non-portable way as would be expected. As such it's just another database abstraction layer. It's quite simple to write wrap this in a pre-existing PHP encoded database abstraction layer. - filter extension. No you don't have to use it, but it's a useful tool for security. Sure, but you can filter your variables for security without it. - SPL. You can leverage SPL without having a fully-OOP architecture. In fact, I find it most useful to be able to have my procedural cake and OOP icing, too. No, you don't have to use it, but it's a useful tool. But it doesn't offer much to a fully procedural architecture. - SimpleXML and the DOM extension. XML handling that doesn't suck ass. No you don't have to use them, but if you're doing anything with XML processing you will thank the gods that you did. I already have an XML API that works fine in PHP4. - A few dozen new utility functions. Sure they could be/have been reimplemented in PHP 4 user-space, but they're not as fast as when implemented in C. True, but that's a compatibility / performance tradeoff. And there doesn't need to be a tradeoff. You can test for PHP4 and include the PHP versions if PHP4 is active. Otherwise default to PHP5 C implementations. That's just off the top of my head. PHP 5 offers a ton of extra tools that can be useful in many situations. Sure it offers a ton of extra tools, but there may be a ton of libraries abandoned that haven't been made compatible with PHP5. Although I must admit it's quite easy to make code PHP5 compatible. If you're on a PHP 4 server, you have
Re: [PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
Robert and everyone: PLEASE do not reply to list AND the sender, at least not when I'm the sender. I don't need double copies of every message in every thread I participate in. Thanks. On Saturday 25 August 2007, Robert Cummings wrote: There is no way to respond to the above request, because you're automatically discounting features as an individual bent. That makes your position non-falsifiable (cannot be proven or disproven), and therefore irrelevant. I'm indicating that features should not be the sole basis of the argument since they are indeed an individual bent. As such it helps to focus the argument to what is important-- the efficacy of PHP4 versus the efficacy of PHP5. Thus my position is open to falsifiability and not as you say irrelevant. What does PHP 5 offer? - Exceptions. No you don't have to use them, but they are a useful tool. - Real OOP. No, you don't have to use it, but it is a useful tool. Ooh, the magical Real OOP. Please go find me a definition of Real OOP. PHP4 is as real OOP as any other OOP. Just because it lacks some devices available in other OOP implementation does not disqualify it in any way from being OOP. - Prepared statements in MySQL (mysqli) or cross-database (PDO). You really should be using them! There are pros and cons to prepared statements: Sure there are. But if all you have is the mysql_ extension, you don't get to make that choice. - filter extension. No you don't have to use it, but it's a useful tool for security. Sure, but you can filter your variables for security without it. Sure you can. You could do it in C, too, and then you don't need PHP's overhead. The you can accomplish it without this tool argument carries no weight since the whole point of the tool is but I can accomplish it in far less time with less code and fewer bugs with it. You can build a house using nothing but a hand saw, but a buzz saw makes it oh so much easier. :-) - SPL. You can leverage SPL without having a fully-OOP architecture. In fact, I find it most useful to be able to have my procedural cake and OOP icing, too. No, you don't have to use it, but it's a useful tool. But it doesn't offer much to a fully procedural architecture. Have you tried it? - SimpleXML and the DOM extension. XML handling that doesn't suck ass. No you don't have to use them, but if you're doing anything with XML processing you will thank the gods that you did. I already have an XML API that works fine in PHP4. There's only a narrow sliver of use cases where I'd say PHP 4's primitive SAX parser works fine. Perhaps you're only working in those, but if you're doing anything more complex then the extra tools make life a hell of a lot easier. - A few dozen new utility functions. Sure they could be/have been reimplemented in PHP 4 user-space, but they're not as fast as when implemented in C. True, but that's a compatibility / performance tradeoff. And there doesn't need to be a tradeoff. You can test for PHP4 and include the PHP versions if PHP4 is active. Otherwise default to PHP5 C implementations. You have to be careful how you structure the code, though. Conditional function definitions still get compiled even if they aren't defined, so there's no memory savings. The GoPHP5 project is not about forcing people to use OOP. It's about ensuring that developers have a full tool box available to them when writing code. If you're still using PHP 4 now, then your tool box is only half-full. Get on PHP 5 to get the other half. I never said gophp5 was about forcing the use of OOP. It just strikes me as an unnecessary push when market forces will perform the appropriate pushing at the appropriate time. GOPHP5 is an artifical push for a faster move towards an inevitable future. GoPHP5 *is that market force*. It's developers saying OK, we're sick of PHP 4, it's time for PHP 5, get with the program. Hosts that don't keep up, well, that's capitalism. It's well past the appropriate time. And actually, what I've found from GoPHP5 is that the Nexen stats showing 20% PHP 5 deployment on a good day are bunk. There's no shortage of PHP 5 compatible hosts, including the big names. We've been holding ourselves back needlessly. The other factor is that those writing code that goes on servers they don't have absolute control over (I dare say most of us) are bound by *others'* refusal to upgrade to PHP 5. If I'm on a shared host, I'm stuck with whatever that host is running, even if it's ancient. I've nothing against running your stuff in PHP5, nothing against it at all. But I don't see what the problem is with maintaining PHP4 compatibility while enjoying PHP5 if you so choose to use PHP5. Because it is not possible to use SimpleXML or SPL or PDO etc. while maintaining PHP 4 compatibility, unless you write two completely separate implementations with a common
Re: [PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
On Sat, 2007-08-25 at 12:28 -0500, Larry Garfield wrote:
Robert and everyone: PLEASE do not reply to list AND the sender, at least not
when I'm the sender. I don't need double copies of every message in every
thread I participate in. Thanks.
Sorry I've been hitting reply-all since I first used email in '93. I
have my doubts I can seriously change my habits now. I've done so this
one time just for you though :)
On Saturday 25 August 2007, Robert Cummings wrote:
Sure you can. You could do it in C, too, and then you don't need PHP's
overhead. The you can accomplish it without this tool argument carries no
weight since the whole point of the tool is but I can accomplish it in far
less time with less code and fewer bugs with it.
You can build a house using nothing but a hand saw, but a buzz saw makes it
oh
so much easier. :-)
PHP4 is the buzz saw. PHP5 is the buzz saw with some extras.
- SPL. You can leverage SPL without having a fully-OOP architecture. In
fact, I find it most useful to be able to have my procedural cake and
OOP icing, too. No, you don't have to use it, but it's a useful tool.
But it doesn't offer much to a fully procedural architecture.
Have you tried it?
Yes I've tried procedural development. it's fun, can be a bit tedious
passing around arrays, but altogether not bad.
- SimpleXML and the DOM extension. XML handling that doesn't suck ass.
No you don't have to use them, but if you're doing anything with XML
processing you will thank the gods that you did.
I already have an XML API that works fine in PHP4.
There's only a narrow sliver of use cases where I'd say PHP 4's primitive SAX
parser works fine. Perhaps you're only working in those, but if you're
doing anything more complex then the extra tools make life a hell of a lot
easier.
I have a wrapper around the parser. I access fields using a very simple
path string.
$xml-getLiteral( '/response/products/[EMAIL PROTECTED]' );
or
$xml-focus( '/response/products/product' );
$products = $xml-getIndexes();
foreach( $products as $pi )
{
echo 'Status: '.$xml-getLiteral( [EMAIL PROTECTED] );
}
It works very well on very complex XML.
- A few dozen new utility functions. Sure they could be/have been
reimplemented in PHP 4 user-space, but they're not as fast as when
implemented in C.
True, but that's a compatibility / performance tradeoff. And there
doesn't need to be a tradeoff. You can test for PHP4 and include the PHP
versions if PHP4 is active. Otherwise default to PHP5 C implementations.
You have to be careful how you structure the code, though. Conditional
function definitions still get compiled even if they aren't defined, so
there's no memory savings.
They don't get compiled if you conditionally include the files that have
them.
The GoPHP5 project is not about forcing people to use OOP. It's about
ensuring that developers have a full tool box available to them when
writing code. If you're still using PHP 4 now, then your tool box is
only half-full. Get on PHP 5 to get the other half.
I never said gophp5 was about forcing the use of OOP. It just strikes me
as an unnecessary push when market forces will perform the appropriate
pushing at the appropriate time. GOPHP5 is an artifical push for a
faster move towards an inevitable future.
GoPHP5 *is that market force*. It's developers saying OK, we're sick of PHP
4, it's time for PHP 5, get with the program. Hosts that don't keep up,
well, that's capitalism. It's well past the appropriate time.
No, GoPHP5 is an external force attempting to sway the market. If you
were THE market force then PHP5 would already be the majority version
and GoPHP5 would be moot.
And actually, what I've found from GoPHP5 is that the Nexen stats showing 20%
PHP 5 deployment on a good day are bunk. There's no shortage of PHP 5
compatible hosts, including the big names. We've been holding ourselves back
needlessly.
The other factor is that those writing code that goes on servers they
don't have absolute control over (I dare say most of us) are bound by
*others'* refusal to upgrade to PHP 5. If I'm on a shared host, I'm
stuck with whatever that host is running, even if it's ancient.
I've nothing against running your stuff in PHP5, nothing against it at
all. But I don't see what the problem is with maintaining PHP4
compatibility while enjoying PHP5 if you so choose to use PHP5.
Because it is not possible to use SimpleXML or SPL or PDO etc. while
maintaining PHP 4 compatibility, unless you write two completely separate
implementations with a common facade.
But if you already have those implementations because you're coming from
PHP4, then who cares. If I already have a huge codebase that uses PHP4
XML semantics then why recode those to use SimpleXML or SPL or PDO when
they already work fine in PHP4? Sure, if
Re: [PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
i dont know what all this goPHP5 stuff is about.
all i know is there was an announcment on php.net a few weeks back saying
php4 is deprecated and it soon will be made obsolete.
-nathan
On 8/25/07, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, 2007-08-25 at 12:28 -0500, Larry Garfield wrote:
Robert and everyone: PLEASE do not reply to list AND the sender, at
least not
when I'm the sender. I don't need double copies of every message in
every
thread I participate in. Thanks.
Sorry I've been hitting reply-all since I first used email in '93. I
have my doubts I can seriously change my habits now. I've done so this
one time just for you though :)
On Saturday 25 August 2007, Robert Cummings wrote:
Sure you can. You could do it in C, too, and then you don't need PHP's
overhead. The you can accomplish it without this tool argument
carries no
weight since the whole point of the tool is but I can accomplish it in
far
less time with less code and fewer bugs with it.
You can build a house using nothing but a hand saw, but a buzz saw makes
it oh
so much easier. :-)
PHP4 is the buzz saw. PHP5 is the buzz saw with some extras.
- SPL. You can leverage SPL without having a fully-OOP
architecture. In
fact, I find it most useful to be able to have my procedural cake
and
OOP icing, too. No, you don't have to use it, but it's a useful
tool.
But it doesn't offer much to a fully procedural architecture.
Have you tried it?
Yes I've tried procedural development. it's fun, can be a bit tedious
passing around arrays, but altogether not bad.
- SimpleXML and the DOM extension. XML handling that doesn't suck
ass.
No you don't have to use them, but if you're doing anything with XML
processing you will thank the gods that you did.
I already have an XML API that works fine in PHP4.
There's only a narrow sliver of use cases where I'd say PHP 4's
primitive SAX
parser works fine. Perhaps you're only working in those, but if
you're
doing anything more complex then the extra tools make life a hell of a
lot
easier.
I have a wrapper around the parser. I access fields using a very simple
path string.
$xml-getLiteral( '/response/products/[EMAIL PROTECTED]' );
or
$xml-focus( '/response/products/product' );
$products = $xml-getIndexes();
foreach( $products as $pi )
{
echo 'Status: '.$xml-getLiteral( [EMAIL PROTECTED] );
}
It works very well on very complex XML.
- A few dozen new utility functions. Sure they could be/have been
reimplemented in PHP 4 user-space, but they're not as fast as when
implemented in C.
True, but that's a compatibility / performance tradeoff. And there
doesn't need to be a tradeoff. You can test for PHP4 and include the
PHP
versions if PHP4 is active. Otherwise default to PHP5 C
implementations.
You have to be careful how you structure the code, though. Conditional
function definitions still get compiled even if they aren't defined,
so
there's no memory savings.
They don't get compiled if you conditionally include the files that have
them.
The GoPHP5 project is not about forcing people to use OOP. It's
about
ensuring that developers have a full tool box available to them when
writing code. If you're still using PHP 4 now, then your tool box
is
only half-full. Get on PHP 5 to get the other half.
I never said gophp5 was about forcing the use of OOP. It just strikes
me
as an unnecessary push when market forces will perform the appropriate
pushing at the appropriate time. GOPHP5 is an artifical push for a
faster move towards an inevitable future.
GoPHP5 *is that market force*. It's developers saying OK, we're sick
of PHP
4, it's time for PHP 5, get with the program. Hosts that don't keep
up,
well, that's capitalism. It's well past the appropriate time.
No, GoPHP5 is an external force attempting to sway the market. If you
were THE market force then PHP5 would already be the majority version
and GoPHP5 would be moot.
And actually, what I've found from GoPHP5 is that the Nexen stats
showing 20%
PHP 5 deployment on a good day are bunk. There's no shortage of PHP 5
compatible hosts, including the big names. We've been holding ourselves
back
needlessly.
The other factor is that those writing code that goes on servers
they
don't have absolute control over (I dare say most of us) are bound
by
*others'* refusal to upgrade to PHP 5. If I'm on a shared host, I'm
stuck with whatever that host is running, even if it's ancient.
I've nothing against running your stuff in PHP5, nothing against it at
all. But I don't see what the problem is with maintaining PHP4
compatibility while enjoying PHP5 if you so choose to use PHP5.
Because it is not possible to use SimpleXML or SPL or PDO etc. while
maintaining PHP 4 compatibility, unless you
Re: [PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
On Saturday 25 August 2007, Nathan Nobbe wrote: i dont know what all this goPHP5 stuff is about. all i know is there was an announcment on php.net a few weeks back saying php4 is deprecated and it soon will be made obsolete. -nathan That announcement came a week after this site launched: http://gophp5.org/ I do not know what if any role it played in the PHP Internals folks' decision to EOL PHP 4, but with or without it the bulk of the PHP world is already committed to moving to PHP 5.2 anyway. -- Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 6817012 If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. -- Thomas Jefferson -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
On Sat, 2007-08-25 at 14:26 -0500, Larry Garfield wrote: On Saturday 25 August 2007, Nathan Nobbe wrote: i dont know what all this goPHP5 stuff is about. all i know is there was an announcment on php.net a few weeks back saying php4 is deprecated and it soon will be made obsolete. -nathan That announcement came a week after this site launched: http://gophp5.org/ I do not know what if any role it played in the PHP Internals folks' decision to EOL PHP 4, but with or without it the bulk of the PHP world is already committed to moving to PHP 5.2 anyway. Maybe it should be GoPHP5.2 ;) I don't think anyone seriously would say Go anything less that 5.2 since there are so many issues before that. Cheers, Rob. -- ... SwarmBuy.com - http://www.swarmbuy.com Leveraging the buying power of the masses! ... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
Recently, I've been doing a lot of benchmarking with Apache to compare different OSes and platforms. I did a stock install of Ubuntu 7.04 Server w/ Apache2 and PHP5. To do the test, I used ab to fetch the following document: html head titlePHP Web Server Test/title /head body ?php phpinfo(); ? /body /html I ran ab in a loop 12 times with 10,000 connections and a concurrency of 10. Then I threw out the highest result and the lowest result and averaged the remaining values. Both PHP4 (v 4.4.7) and PHP5 (v 5.2.3) were built as Apache modules, and I simply changed Apache's config file to swap modules. The results were somewhat surprising to me: on average, PHP4 significantly outperformed PHP5. Over our LAN PHP5 handled roughly 1,200 requests / sec while PHP4 handled over 1,800 requests / sec. Since everything I have heard/read is that PHP5 is much faster than PHP4, I expected the opposite to be true, but the numbers are what they are. Also PHP on Apache1 was much faster than on Apache2. The only difference I can figure is that PHP5 was the packaged version that comes with Ubuntu and I had to compile PHP4 from source since there is no package for it in Feisty. But I wouldn't expect a 50% increase as a result of that. Any thoughts on this? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
what are the changes that supposedly make php5 faster than php4? when java went from the 1.4 series to the 5 series it became much faster. this is because of enhancements to the jitter mechanism for sure. i dont know what else they changed, but i know that had a great impact on the performance. php5 passes objects around by reference automatically, whereas in php4 if you do not specifically assign references using the = construct a copy will be created. i suspect if your test included a scenario where the = mechanism was not used in php4, it would not be as fast as the php5 counterpart, simply because more memory would be consumed. indeed i suspect there is plenty of php4 code where people have forgotten to assign object references using =. -nathan On 8/24/07, Steve Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Recently, I've been doing a lot of benchmarking with Apache to compare different OSes and platforms. I did a stock install of Ubuntu 7.04 Server w/ Apache2 and PHP5. To do the test, I used ab to fetch the following document: html head titlePHP Web Server Test/title /head body ?php phpinfo(); ? /body /html I ran ab in a loop 12 times with 10,000 connections and a concurrency of 10. Then I threw out the highest result and the lowest result and averaged the remaining values. Both PHP4 (v 4.4.7) and PHP5 (v 5.2.3) were built as Apache modules, and I simply changed Apache's config file to swap modules. The results were somewhat surprising to me: on average, PHP4 significantly outperformed PHP5. Over our LAN PHP5 handled roughly 1,200 requests / sec while PHP4 handled over 1,800 requests / sec. Since everything I have heard/read is that PHP5 is much faster than PHP4, I expected the opposite to be true, but the numbers are what they are. Also PHP on Apache1 was much faster than on Apache2. The only difference I can figure is that PHP5 was the packaged version that comes with Ubuntu and I had to compile PHP4 from source since there is no package for it in Feisty. But I wouldn't expect a 50% increase as a result of that. Any thoughts on this? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
PHP5 being faster than PHP4 is greatly dependent on what features you use. I've consistently found PHP4 to be faster for my purposes also. Cheers, Rob. On Fri, 2007-08-24 at 11:38 -0400, Nathan Nobbe wrote: what are the changes that supposedly make php5 faster than php4? when java went from the 1.4 series to the 5 series it became much faster. this is because of enhancements to the jitter mechanism for sure. i dont know what else they changed, but i know that had a great impact on the performance. php5 passes objects around by reference automatically, whereas in php4 if you do not specifically assign references using the = construct a copy will be created. i suspect if your test included a scenario where the = mechanism was not used in php4, it would not be as fast as the php5 counterpart, simply because more memory would be consumed. indeed i suspect there is plenty of php4 code where people have forgotten to assign object references using =. -nathan On 8/24/07, Steve Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Recently, I've been doing a lot of benchmarking with Apache to compare different OSes and platforms. I did a stock install of Ubuntu 7.04 Server w/ Apache2 and PHP5. To do the test, I used ab to fetch the following document: html head titlePHP Web Server Test/title /head body ?php phpinfo(); ? /body /html I ran ab in a loop 12 times with 10,000 connections and a concurrency of 10. Then I threw out the highest result and the lowest result and averaged the remaining values. Both PHP4 (v 4.4.7) and PHP5 (v 5.2.3) were built as Apache modules, and I simply changed Apache's config file to swap modules. The results were somewhat surprising to me: on average, PHP4 significantly outperformed PHP5. Over our LAN PHP5 handled roughly 1,200 requests / sec while PHP4 handled over 1,800 requests / sec. Since everything I have heard/read is that PHP5 is much faster than PHP4, I expected the opposite to be true, but the numbers are what they are. Also PHP on Apache1 was much faster than on Apache2. The only difference I can figure is that PHP5 was the packaged version that comes with Ubuntu and I had to compile PHP4 from source since there is no package for it in Feisty. But I wouldn't expect a 50% increase as a result of that. Any thoughts on this? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- ... SwarmBuy.com - http://www.swarmbuy.com Leveraging the buying power of the masses! ... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
On 8/24/07, Steve Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only difference I can figure is that PHP5 was the packaged version that comes with Ubuntu and I had to compile PHP4 from source since there is no package for it in Feisty. But I wouldn't expect a 50% increase as a result of that. Any thoughts on this? What would be interesting is if a group picked up PHP4 and kept going with it in spite of the end of life announcement a few weeks back. I wonder if the PHP license would allow such a thing. How open is it exactly? -- Greg Donald http://destiney.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
On Fri, 2007-08-24 at 12:24 -0500, Greg Donald wrote: On 8/24/07, Steve Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only difference I can figure is that PHP5 was the packaged version that comes with Ubuntu and I had to compile PHP4 from source since there is no package for it in Feisty. But I wouldn't expect a 50% increase as a result of that. Any thoughts on this? What would be interesting is if a group picked up PHP4 and kept going with it in spite of the end of life announcement a few weeks back. I wonder if the PHP license would allow such a thing. How open is it exactly? You can fork PHP. You just can't use PHP in the name of your new branch. Cheers, Rob. -- ... SwarmBuy.com - http://www.swarmbuy.com Leveraging the buying power of the masses! ... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
Greg Donald wrote: On 8/24/07, Steve Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only difference I can figure is that PHP5 was the packaged version that comes with Ubuntu and I had to compile PHP4 from source since there is no package for it in Feisty. But I wouldn't expect a 50% increase as a result of that. Any thoughts on this? What would be interesting is if a group picked up PHP4 and kept going with it in spite of the end of life announcement a few weeks back. I wonder if the PHP license would allow such a thing. How open is it exactly? The PROBLEM is that supporting PHP4, 5 and now 6 is detracting from solving some of these problems. Until we can get away from HAVING to support PHP4, then PHP5 will not get the full fine tuning it needs. Proposing to maintain a branch of PHP4 will then result n people expecting all of the major frameworks to work on it - and WE need to be able to concentrate on USING PHP5 properly rather than having to bodge things still to be backwards compatible with PHP4 :( Steve Did your test run the SAME modules on each version of PHP. Were the generated pages the same size. I thought that by default PHP5 had more features enabled so I would expect the phpinfo page to be a lot longer? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk MEDW - http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/ Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
On Friday 24 August 2007, Lester Caine wrote: What would be interesting is if a group picked up PHP4 and kept going with it in spite of the end of life announcement a few weeks back. I wonder if the PHP license would allow such a thing. How open is it exactly? The PROBLEM is that supporting PHP4, 5 and now 6 is detracting from solving some of these problems. Until we can get away from HAVING to support PHP4, then PHP5 will not get the full fine tuning it needs. Proposing to maintain a branch of PHP4 will then result n people expecting all of the major frameworks to work on it - and WE need to be able to concentrate on USING PHP5 properly rather than having to bodge things still to be backwards compatible with PHP4 :( The major frameworks have already agreed that PHP 4 is dead, even before the PHP dev team did. http://gophp5.org/ Anyone expecting anything but a custom in-house application to continue to work in PHP 4 by next year is simply not paying attention. Let it rest in peace. -- Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 6817012 If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. -- Thomas Jefferson -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP4 vs PHP5 Performance?
On Sat, 2007-08-25 at 00:28 -0500, Larry Garfield wrote: On Friday 24 August 2007, Lester Caine wrote: What would be interesting is if a group picked up PHP4 and kept going with it in spite of the end of life announcement a few weeks back. I wonder if the PHP license would allow such a thing. How open is it exactly? The PROBLEM is that supporting PHP4, 5 and now 6 is detracting from solving some of these problems. Until we can get away from HAVING to support PHP4, then PHP5 will not get the full fine tuning it needs. Proposing to maintain a branch of PHP4 will then result n people expecting all of the major frameworks to work on it - and WE need to be able to concentrate on USING PHP5 properly rather than having to bodge things still to be backwards compatible with PHP4 :( The major frameworks have already agreed that PHP 4 is dead, even before the PHP dev team did. http://gophp5.org/ *yawn* Anyone expecting anything but a custom in-house application to continue to work in PHP 4 by next year is simply not paying attention. Let it rest in peace. I think many applications will continue to work in PHP4 regardless of the gophp5 project. It's not very hard to make applications work in both PHP4 and PHP5. I would argue that only an idiot needlessly cuts off more than half of their clientele. Elimination of PHP4 updates doesn't mean suddenly 100% of the PHP install base becomes PHP5. Cheers, Rob. -- ... SwarmBuy.com - http://www.swarmbuy.com Leveraging the buying power of the masses! ... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] PHP4 VS PHP5 Performance
Hello all, I've been poking around a little bit, and I haven't found a good link for showing the performance differences between the two versions of PHP. Mostly I was just curious what the numbers were. I've heard some conflicting opinions on the matter, and wanted to clear it up with some facts. I don't have the time to set up php4 and php5 on identical machines :( Thanks! -- Ray Hauge Programmer/Systems Administrator American Student Loan Services 1.800.575.1099 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
