RE: [PHP] Re: An appeal to your better nature
-Original Message- From: Daniel Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 1:34 AM To: Ross McKay Cc: php-general@lists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: An appeal to your better nature On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:28 PM, Ross McKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Problems I see with the above: * good IT professionals use version control AND take backups * good IT professionals work on dev servers and migrate to test, prod * good IT professionals don't tend to claim guru status themselves :) Addendum: * Good IT professionals don't usually criticize one another in a public forum in the above manner, if nothing else than out of professional courtesy. -- /Daniel P. Brown Better prices on dedicated servers: Intel 2.4GHz/60GB/512MB/2TB $49.99/mo. Intel 3.06GHz/80GB/1GB/2TB $59.99/mo. Dedicated servers, VPS, and hosting from $2.50/mo. ROFL I never thought someone seriously would go the whole way from dev, test and prod servers AND use all the version control stuff. Honestly: I use dev servers and two backup servers for our company website, but having a version control system and everything would, in my opinion, really make this whole being a developer some kind of ... ugh. Might be good to do, I don't know. Never tried, and probably never will. And being a good IT professional to me means: know what you're doing, and take the hits you get. Lost your data? Well, there is a hit to take. But pointing fingers has never helped anybody. 2 Cents from germany Chris -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: An appeal to your better nature
Chris Haensel wrote: I never thought someone seriously would go the whole way from dev, test and prod servers [...] Really? You've never: * developed locally on your own server * uploaded to a published site, not the client's live site, for preview * uploaded the approved changes to the client's live site thus development, test and production? Never worked on a project with multiple developers, a few development environments, integration testing, system testing, user acceptance testing, and releases to the live system? AND use all the version control stuff. Just one is sufficient :) and it certainly saves time in the long run. It can be especially useful when clients make their own modifications, and need you to come in and restore just the bits they broke; version control and a good diff-and-merge tool (e.g. Subversion and Meld) can save hours of sorting that out. Honestly: I use dev servers and two backup servers for our company website, but having a version control system and everything would, in my opinion, really make this whole being a developer some kind of ... ugh. Might be good to do, I don't know. Never tried, and probably never will. And being a good IT professional to me means: know what you're doing, and take the hits you get. Lost your data? Well, there is a hit to take. That's your prerogative, and presumably your company's too, but maybe Richard would like to know what some of his options are. But pointing fingers has never helped anybody. Who was pointing fingers? I pointed out that hacking the live site with no version control and no backups wasn't being a good IT professional, and then I suggested where to find some of the missing files (Google cache). I also pointed out that I had changes outstanding and not backed up too, i.e. I'm hardly claiming to be the good IT professional either. Maybe if Richard picks up some proven software development procedures like those simple ones mentioned, he won't be bitten like this again. Maybe you won't be bitten likewise, unless you'd prefer to take umbrage at offers of advice you don't like. Or perhaps you think that good IT professionals do hack their production environments without backups as a matter of course? And on low-service hosting environments. :) -- Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia Words can only hurt if you try to read them. Don't play their game - Zoolander -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: An appeal to your better nature
Maybe if Richard picks up some proven software development procedures like those simple ones mentioned, he won't be bitten like this again. Maybe you won't be bitten likewise, unless you'd prefer to take umbrage at offers of advice you don't like. I just want to point out that I don't need to pick them up. If it was anyone elses stuff (ie work) then backups are done as a matter of course (more to protect my own arse if nothing else), but it wasn't. It was my own personal stuff that I'm not going to get sued over. Naturally I'd rather not lose it, but life would go on if I did. -- Richard Heyes http://www.phpguru.org -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Re: An appeal to your better nature
On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 14:59 +0200, Chris Haensel wrote: -Original Message- From: Daniel Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 1:34 AM To: Ross McKay Cc: php-general@lists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: An appeal to your better nature On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:28 PM, Ross McKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Problems I see with the above: * good IT professionals use version control AND take backups * good IT professionals work on dev servers and migrate to test, prod * good IT professionals don't tend to claim guru status themselves :) Addendum: * Good IT professionals don't usually criticize one another in a public forum in the above manner, if nothing else than out of professional courtesy. -- /Daniel P. Brown Better prices on dedicated servers: Intel 2.4GHz/60GB/512MB/2TB $49.99/mo. Intel 3.06GHz/80GB/1GB/2TB $59.99/mo. Dedicated servers, VPS, and hosting from $2.50/mo. ROFL I never thought someone seriously would go the whole way from dev, test and prod servers AND use all the version control stuff. Honestly: I use dev servers and two backup servers for our company website, but having a version control system and everything would, in my opinion, really make this whole being a developer some kind of ... ugh. Might be good to do, I don't know. Never tried, and probably never will. I use CVS all the way from dev to production with staging in between (except personal projects where I skip staging). Here's an approximation of my update workflow: dev modify code dev cvs commit -m 'blah blah comments' dev ssh staging staging cvs update staging ./buildSite.php After feedback from client... dev ssh production production cvs update production ./buildSite.php I use CVS for all my projects. Be they tiny or large. If something goes wrong after production is updated, I just grab a snapshot from when we last had a stable run. Using CVS is well worth the extra 5 minutes I spend at the beginning of a project setting up the repository. When I take over some project that didn't use CVS, the first thing I do is put it in CVS. Usually I find crap like foo.php.bak, foo.php.better.bak, foo.php.good, foo.php.broken littered all over the source tree. Some idiot obviously made them because they didn't use a versioning system. The really sad part is, all these files are usually right there in the production tree. As far as backups go, CVS is on another machine, production and staging are sometimes on the same machine, sometimes on their own machines. Either way, the source exists in 3 physical locations... cvs, dev, staging. And I run nightly backups of CVS. Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: An appeal to your better nature
Richard Heyes wrote: Hi, Seems my 1and1 server has finally gone kaput taking my website with it, and in the tradition of all good IT professionals, I have no backups. :( So this is an appeal to you to ask if you have downloaded anything from phpguru.org at all, could you please send it to me so I can try to rebuild my site. A big thanks. Wooo, thanks for the reminder. Off to do my annual backups. -Shawn -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: An appeal to your better nature
On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 12:34:53 +0100, Richard Heyes wrote: Seems my 1and1 server has finally gone kaput taking my website with it, and in the tradition of all good IT professionals, I have no backups. :( So this is an appeal to you to ask if you have downloaded anything from phpguru.org at all, could you please send it to me so I can try to rebuild my site. Problems I see with the above: * good IT professionals use version control AND take backups * good IT professionals work on dev servers and migrate to test, prod * good IT professionals don't tend to claim guru status themselves :) Having said that, I'm about to commit yesterday's changes to Subversion and run another backup whilst touching wood! Checking Google's cache should give you an idea of what you had up there, and the rebuild is always better than the original anyway... -- Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia Let the laddie play wi the knife - he'll learn - The Wee Book of Calvin -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: An appeal to your better nature
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:28 PM, Ross McKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Problems I see with the above: * good IT professionals use version control AND take backups * good IT professionals work on dev servers and migrate to test, prod * good IT professionals don't tend to claim guru status themselves :) Addendum: * Good IT professionals don't usually criticize one another in a public forum in the above manner, if nothing else than out of professional courtesy. -- /Daniel P. Brown Better prices on dedicated servers: Intel 2.4GHz/60GB/512MB/2TB $49.99/mo. Intel 3.06GHz/80GB/1GB/2TB $59.99/mo. Dedicated servers, VPS, and hosting from $2.50/mo. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
