RE: [PHP] Hebrew websites transition with php3 ..
Hi The case In Israel is different. It's not that we chose this browser over another... Netscape wouldn't support Hebrew and IE did. So there was no actual war. The data about the 3% is pretty accurate and is collaborated by all 3 major portals in Israel. Sincerely berber Visit http://www.weberdev.com Today!!! To see where PHP might take you tomorrow. -Original Message- From: Manuel Lemos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 6:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PHP] Hebrew websites transition with php3 .. Hello Boaz, On 01-Mar-01 04:17:25, you wrote: The IE / NN war was one that left no chance for NN in Israel. While MS spent millions in making all of their products in Hebrew, including the free IE, NN refused to support Hebrew. I don't think this is a matter of browser wars. Ideally, portals should target their target audience not the other way arround. If your portal pages can't display in users browsers, they simply go away and won't bother telling you why. While the 3% is correct for Israel, it's far from being true on an international basis. If you got me right, if your portal only displays right in logical Hebrew, there is no reason for those 3% be just 0% because nobody returns to a portal that does not display in their browser, right? With all due respect to people that like other browsers, developing for all browsers costs lots of $$$ and as long as portals are free and loosing lots of $$$ it's not profitable to develop for all. Bottom line, as the CTO of one of those portals I say go with Logical Hebrew and dump Netscape (In Israel Only). Personally I don't care about Netscape. My point was just to bring to the attention that when you think your are just dumping Netscape or whatever browser, what you are actually dumping is share of users that you believe that it is 3% but might be actually much more. I know that over here people assumed that was 10% but was in reality 30%. In a market like the Internet portals where the winner takes almost all, it may be worthy for you to rethink your options before you realize that your portal is not the winner because your not really evaluating the real user audience figures, but rather those that are technically more convinient. Just my 0.02 EUR. :-) Regards, Manuel Lemos Web Programming Components using PHP Classes. Look at: http://phpclasses.UpperDesign.com/?[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL: http://www.mlemos.e-na.net/ PGP key: http://www.mlemos.e-na.net/ManuelLemos.pgp -- -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] Hebrew websites transition with php3 ..
Hello Aviv, On 28-Feb-01 20:07:21, you wrote: Hey! So what do YOU offer me to do? Should I use visual Hebrew (write a php3 script which will reverse Hebrew words), or should I stick only to Logical Hebrew? In the ideal world you would figure if the browser supports logical Hebrew or not and would serve pages formatted encoded accordingly. In the ideal world you also would have time and budget to implement alternative content formats, but this may not be what is like in your real world. Regards, Manuel Lemos Web Programming Components using PHP Classes. Look at: http://phpclasses.UpperDesign.com/?[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL: http://www.mlemos.e-na.net/ PGP key: http://www.mlemos.e-na.net/ManuelLemos.pgp -- -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] Hebrew websites transition with php3 ..
Hello Boaz, On 01-Mar-01 04:17:25, you wrote: The IE / NN war was one that left no chance for NN in Israel. While MS spent millions in making all of their products in Hebrew, including the free IE, NN refused to support Hebrew. I don't think this is a matter of browser wars. Ideally, portals should target their target audience not the other way arround. If your portal pages can't display in users browsers, they simply go away and won't bother telling you why. While the 3% is correct for Israel, it's far from being true on an international basis. If you got me right, if your portal only displays right in logical Hebrew, there is no reason for those 3% be just 0% because nobody returns to a portal that does not display in their browser, right? With all due respect to people that like other browsers, developing for all browsers costs lots of $$$ and as long as portals are free and loosing lots of $$$ it's not profitable to develop for all. Bottom line, as the CTO of one of those portals I say go with Logical Hebrew and dump Netscape (In Israel Only). Personally I don't care about Netscape. My point was just to bring to the attention that when you think your are just dumping Netscape or whatever browser, what you are actually dumping is share of users that you believe that it is 3% but might be actually much more. I know that over here people assumed that was 10% but was in reality 30%. In a market like the Internet portals where the winner takes almost all, it may be worthy for you to rethink your options before you realize that your portal is not the winner because your not really evaluating the real user audience figures, but rather those that are technically more convinient. Just my 0.02 EUR. :-) Regards, Manuel Lemos Web Programming Components using PHP Classes. Look at: http://phpclasses.UpperDesign.com/?[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL: http://www.mlemos.e-na.net/ PGP key: http://www.mlemos.e-na.net/ManuelLemos.pgp -- -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Hebrew websites transition with php3 ..
Hey! About Netscape's Hebrew support.. soon... but not yet.. And one more thing, the different browsers on PalmPilots (AvantGo , webClient etc.) rely on palm's Hebrew support which is only logical, no visual support in palm). Oh, good to know. If I'm not out of line here, can you tell me what this site is about, and what kind of audienece accessing it you excpect ? If it is for the common people, most of them will use IE, I guess they don't even know how to install netscape for themself, and most of them even don't know how to change their homepage :-( Well, I'm building this site for a shop. It's audience will probably be adults between ages of 25 to 55. They won't be Internet wizards, but this shop is rather expensive so they will probably be more than just common people. There's no easy solution for this and many Hebrew site developers are having hard time trying to figure out what to do. Maybe you should run a poll on your site (should be written in visual encoding - of course) asking the visitors for their opinions. h. I'm getting tired from this Hebrew issue.. This is probably the reason to change my profession.. ;( Still no quick answers.. you chose to ignore Visual-Only browsers. You told me that many Hebrew website developers didn't. What should I do?? Thank you in advance - Aviv Revach XOR-Coders Mega Programming Resource Site! - http://members.xoom.com/xorcoders/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Hebrew websites transition with php3 ..
On Thursday 01 March 2001 09:17, Boaz Yahav wrote: I think that Aviv should stick to logical hebrew (which is the standart, as mentioned by Boaz). I don't use IE (I'm using Linux) and I can access all the logical sites with no problem, including the "html dir=rtl" tag and the 'direction: rtl' style (thank god for konqueror). Netsacpe 6/Mozilla should support logical Hebrew pretty soon so no trouble there, and if Opera wants to gain market share they shold support the standart (logical) in here to. Altough the 3% estimate seems wrong (as noted by Manuel Lemos - Hi :-) , the majority of users in Israel are using IE. One more problem you'll have with visaul hebrew is the ugly line breaks which cause the end of the sentence to appear before the start of it. I had a long discussion of this subject with Manuel off this mailing list. I can send you a digest of it if you wish. -- Meir Kriheli There's someone in my head, but it's not me - Pink Floyd Hi Manuel, All is great, working hard to make WeberDev.com a better place for the community and trying to make people understand we don't make $$$ from it :) The IE / NN war was one that left no chance for NN in Israel. While MS spent millions in making all of their products in Hebrew, including the free IE, NN refused to support Hebrew. While the 3% is correct for Israel, it's far from being true on an international basis. There are 3 large portals in Israel, 1 supports only IE (MSN), and the other two that supported NN, until not long ago, started to develop for IE only about 4-6 months ago. This is why there is no reason to support anything other than IE in Israel. With all due respect to people that like other browsers, developing for all browsers costs lots of $$$ and as long as portals are free and loosing lots of $$$ it's not profitable to develop for all. Bottom line, as the CTO of one of those portals I say go with Logical Hebrew and dump Netscape (In Israel Only). and don't forget to add the HTML DIR="rtl" tag at the beginning of each page. Sincerely berber Visit http://www.weberdev.com Today!!! To see where PHP might take you tomorrow. -Original Message- From: Manuel Lemos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 10:51 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PHP] Hebrew websites transition with php3 .. Hello Boaz, How are you doing these days? :-) On 28-Feb-01 16:39:35, you wrote: The figures I'm giving you are from one of the two biggest portals in Israel. it's less than 3%. Mind me for jumping in, but I think Aviv question about the truth of the 3% figure ie very pertinent. The way I see it it is a gross mistake to assume that the audience of a large portal is necessary a reflex of the potential audience of that portal. I also work for a large portal company (not for the Hebrew audience though) and I found people making the same large mistake. They looked at the sites audience and figure that there is over 90% of Internet Explorer users in a site that used IE specific DHTML. Needless to say that it didn't show right in Netscape. Given that sites do not show right in certain browsers, it looks obvious that almost nobody using those browsers would show in the browser audience rates. I even wonder why there are still 3% of users of browsers that do not support logical Hebrew display that go to your portal. Same for the 10% of Netscape users that go to that other site in my company portal. Maybe those are just lurkers that went there and gave up on the site and did not return because they could not see right what was in there. The reality is that it turns out that there is still about 30% os Netscape users, meaning that if you force a certain type of display that they don't see right, you loose their audience. Just my .02 EUR. :-) Manuel Lemos I'm not sure about Opera, if you are developing for an Israeli audience, you can simply develop for IE 4.x and up. anyone with any other browser can go and get IE :) -Original Message- From: Aviv Revach [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 4:03 PM To: Boaz Yahav; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PHP] Hebrew websites transition with php3 .. Hey! Thank you for the quick reply. I do have some questions regarding your answer. From what I know and have seen so far, there are more than just 3% Internet users in Israel which use Netscape 4.x (I use it myself...). Are you sure that I should just ignore these people, and just use logical Hebrew? Also, quite a lot of people started using Opera lately.. (ain't speaking about Israeli users). Does Opera supports Logical Hebrew? If so, from which version? Best Regards - Aviv Revach At 15:20 28/02/01 +0200, Boaz Yahav wrote: Hi Aviv Let me give you a small tip about Hebrew on the net. The proper Hebrew code which was adopted by t
Re: [PHP] Hebrew websites transition with php3 ..
Hey! Ok, I think that I will stick to logical Hebrew as most of you suggested. But still, I'm interested in knowing how could I take a HTML document which contains HTML tags, Hebrew words and English words, and reveres only the Hebrew words (making them Visual Hebrew) using only php3 functions (the server I'm using doesn't support php4). It would be great if anyone could point of a solution for doing that. By writing a script that will do that, I will both options - show the Hebrew in my website as Logical or use a script to translate it into visual Hebrew for browsers who do not support it. Thank you in advance - Aviv Revach At 16:45 01/03/01 +0200, Meir kriheli wrote: On Thursday 01 March 2001 09:17, Boaz Yahav wrote: I think that Aviv should stick to logical hebrew (which is the standart, as mentioned by Boaz). I don't use IE (I'm using Linux) and I can access all the logical sites with no problem, including the "html dir=rtl" tag and the 'direction: rtl' style (thank god for konqueror). Netsacpe 6/Mozilla should support logical Hebrew pretty soon so no trouble there, and if Opera wants to gain market share they shold support the standart (logical) in here to. Altough the 3% estimate seems wrong (as noted by Manuel Lemos - Hi :-) , the majority of users in Israel are using IE. One more problem you'll have with visaul hebrew is the ugly line breaks which cause the end of the sentence to appear before the start of it. I had a long discussion of this subject with Manuel off this mailing list. I can send you a digest of it if you wish. -- Meir Kriheli There's someone in my head, but it's not me - Pink Floyd Hi Manuel, All is great, working hard to make WeberDev.com a better place for the community and trying to make people understand we don't make $$$ from it :) The IE / NN war was one that left no chance for NN in Israel. While MS spent millions in making all of their products in Hebrew, including the free IE, NN refused to support Hebrew. While the 3% is correct for Israel, it's far from being true on an international basis. There are 3 large portals in Israel, 1 supports only IE (MSN), and the other two that supported NN, until not long ago, started to develop for IE only about 4-6 months ago. This is why there is no reason to support anything other than IE in Israel. With all due respect to people that like other browsers, developing for all browsers costs lots of $$$ and as long as portals are free and loosing lots of $$$ it's not profitable to develop for all. Bottom line, as the CTO of one of those portals I say go with Logical Hebrew and dump Netscape (In Israel Only). and don't forget to add the HTML DIR="rtl" tag at the beginning of each page. Sincerely berber Visit http://www.weberdev.com Today!!! To see where PHP might take you tomorrow. -Original Message- From: Manuel Lemos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 10:51 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PHP] Hebrew websites transition with php3 .. Hello Boaz, How are you doing these days? :-) On 28-Feb-01 16:39:35, you wrote: The figures I'm giving you are from one of the two biggest portals in Israel. it's less than 3%. Mind me for jumping in, but I think Aviv question about the truth of the 3% figure ie very pertinent. The way I see it it is a gross mistake to assume that the audience of a large portal is necessary a reflex of the potential audience of that portal. I also work for a large portal company (not for the Hebrew audience though) and I found people making the same large mistake. They looked at the sites audience and figure that there is over 90% of Internet Explorer users in a site that used IE specific DHTML. Needless to say that it didn't show right in Netscape. Given that sites do not show right in certain browsers, it looks obvious that almost nobody using those browsers would show in the browser audience rates. I even wonder why there are still 3% of users of browsers that do not support logical Hebrew display that go to your portal. Same for the 10% of Netscape users that go to that other site in my company portal. Maybe those are just lurkers that went there and gave up on the site and did not return because they could not see right what was in there. The reality is that it turns out that there is still about 30% os Netscape users, meaning that if you force a certain type of display that they don't see right, you loose their audience. Just my .02 EUR. :-) Manuel Lemos I'm not sure about Opera, if you are developing for an Israeli audience, you can simply develop for IE 4.x and up. anyone with any other browser can go and get IE :) -Original Message- From: Aviv Revach [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 4:03
Re: [PHP] Hebrew websites transition with php3 ..
As Boaz suggested look into hebrev and hebrevc functions. They are the only ones I can think about right now. check http://php.net/hebrev http://php.net/hebrevc the manual states that this functions are defined in PHP3 and PHP4. HTH -- Meir Kriheli There's someone in my head, but it's not me - Pink Floyd On Wednesday 28 February 2001 17:00, Aviv Revach wrote: Hey! Ok, I think that I will stick to logical Hebrew as most of you suggested. But still, I'm interested in knowing how could I take a HTML document which contains HTML tags, Hebrew words and English words, and reveres only the Hebrew words (making them Visual Hebrew) using only php3 functions (the server I'm using doesn't support php4). It would be great if anyone could point of a solution for doing that. By writing a script that will do that, I will both options - show the Hebrew in my website as Logical or use a script to translate it into visual Hebrew for browsers who do not support it. Thank you in advance - Aviv Revach At 16:45 01/03/01 +0200, Meir kriheli wrote: On Thursday 01 March 2001 09:17, Boaz Yahav wrote: I think that Aviv should stick to logical hebrew (which is the standart, as mentioned by Boaz). I don't use IE (I'm using Linux) and I can access all the logical sites with no problem, including the "html dir=rtl" tag and the 'direction: rtl' style (thank god for konqueror). Netsacpe 6/Mozilla should support logical Hebrew pretty soon so no trouble there, and if Opera wants to gain market share they shold support the standart (logical) in here to. Altough the 3% estimate seems wrong (as noted by Manuel Lemos - Hi :-) , the majority of users in Israel are using IE. One more problem you'll have with visaul hebrew is the ugly line breaks which cause the end of the sentence to appear before the start of it. I had a long discussion of this subject with Manuel off this mailing list. I can send you a digest of it if you wish. -- Meir Kriheli There's someone in my head, but it's not me - Pink Floyd Hi Manuel, All is great, working hard to make WeberDev.com a better place for the community and trying to make people understand we don't make $$$ from it :) The IE / NN war was one that left no chance for NN in Israel. While MS spent millions in making all of their products in Hebrew, including the free IE, NN refused to support Hebrew. While the 3% is correct for Israel, it's far from being true on an international basis. There are 3 large portals in Israel, 1 supports only IE (MSN), and the other two that supported NN, until not long ago, started to develop for IE only about 4-6 months ago. This is why there is no reason to support anything other than IE in Israel. With all due respect to people that like other browsers, developing for all browsers costs lots of $$$ and as long as portals are free and loosing lots of $$$ it's not profitable to develop for all. Bottom line, as the CTO of one of those portals I say go with Logical Hebrew and dump Netscape (In Israel Only). and don't forget to add the HTML DIR="rtl" tag at the beginning of each page. Sincerely berber Visit http://www.weberdev.com Today!!! To see where PHP might take you tomorrow. -Original Message- From: Manuel Lemos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 10:51 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PHP] Hebrew websites transition with php3 .. Hello Boaz, How are you doing these days? :-) On 28-Feb-01 16:39:35, you wrote: The figures I'm giving you are from one of the two biggest portals in Israel. it's less than 3%. Mind me for jumping in, but I think Aviv question about the truth of the 3% figure ie very pertinent. The way I see it it is a gross mistake to assume that the audience of a large portal is necessary a reflex of the potential audience of that portal. I also work for a large portal company (not for the Hebrew audience though) and I found people making the same large mistake. They looked at the sites audience and figure that there is over 90% of Internet Explorer users in a site that used IE specific DHTML. Needless to say that it didn't show right in Netscape. Given that sites do not show right in certain browsers, it looks obvious that almost nobody using those browsers would show in the browser audience rates. I even wonder why there are still 3% of users of browsers that do not support logical Hebrew display that go to your portal. Same for the 10% of Netscape users that go to that other site in my company portal. Maybe those are just lurkers that went there and gave up on the site and did not return because they could not see right what was in there. The reality
Re: [PHP] Hebrew websites transition with php3 ..
Hey! I'm sending this e-mail only to you, since it's way off-topic from being in the php-general mailing list. I have downloaded Netscape 6, it seems that Logical Hebrew isn't support yet - only Visual. So if Netscape 4.x (except for the 4.61 version developed by IBM), Netscape 6, and Opera does not support Logical Hebrew why should I use it?? What do other Hebrew web sites do regarding this matter? Do they make two versions of the same web site, one for Netscape and one for IE? For conclusion - I'm working on a Hebrew website. I want this website to look ok in both browsers (IE and Netscape), and I want this to be done the easiest way possible. What should I do? Use Logical Hebrew and ignore the fact that Netscape does not support it? or maybe I should use Visual Hebrew (reverse all the Hebrew words using some utility such as - "EasyHEB"), or maybe I should use Logical Hebrew in the HTML itself and turn it to Visual using a PHP script? (doing that would be rather complicated.. hebrev() and hebrevc() aren't enough..) Thank you in advance - Aviv Revach At 17:20 01/03/01 +0200, Meir kriheli wrote: As Boaz suggested look into hebrev and hebrevc functions. They are the only ones I can think about right now. check http://php.net/hebrev http://php.net/hebrevc the manual states that this functions are defined in PHP3 and PHP4. HTH -- Meir Kriheli There's someone in my head, but it's not me - Pink Floyd On Wednesday 28 February 2001 17:00, Aviv Revach wrote: Hey! Ok, I think that I will stick to logical Hebrew as most of you suggested. But still, I'm interested in knowing how could I take a HTML document which contains HTML tags, Hebrew words and English words, and reveres only the Hebrew words (making them Visual Hebrew) using only php3 functions (the server I'm using doesn't support php4). It would be great if anyone could point of a solution for doing that. By writing a script that will do that, I will both options - show the Hebrew in my website as Logical or use a script to translate it into visual Hebrew for browsers who do not support it. Thank you in advance - Aviv Revach At 16:45 01/03/01 +0200, Meir kriheli wrote: On Thursday 01 March 2001 09:17, Boaz Yahav wrote: I think that Aviv should stick to logical hebrew (which is the standart, as mentioned by Boaz). I don't use IE (I'm using Linux) and I can access all the logical sites with no problem, including the "html dir=rtl" tag and the 'direction: rtl' style (thank god for konqueror). Netsacpe 6/Mozilla should support logical Hebrew pretty soon so no trouble there, and if Opera wants to gain market share they shold support the standart (logical) in here to. Altough the 3% estimate seems wrong (as noted by Manuel Lemos - Hi :-) , the majority of users in Israel are using IE. One more problem you'll have with visaul hebrew is the ugly line breaks which cause the end of the sentence to appear before the start of it. I had a long discussion of this subject with Manuel off this mailing list. I can send you a digest of it if you wish. -- Meir Kriheli There's someone in my head, but it's not me - Pink Floyd Hi Manuel, All is great, working hard to make WeberDev.com a better place for the community and trying to make people understand we don't make $$$ from it :) The IE / NN war was one that left no chance for NN in Israel. While MS spent millions in making all of their products in Hebrew, including the free IE, NN refused to support Hebrew. While the 3% is correct for Israel, it's far from being true on an international basis. There are 3 large portals in Israel, 1 supports only IE (MSN), and the other two that supported NN, until not long ago, started to develop for IE only about 4-6 months ago. This is why there is no reason to support anything other than IE in Israel. With all due respect to people that like other browsers, developing for all browsers costs lots of $$$ and as long as portals are free and loosing lots of $$$ it's not profitable to develop for all. Bottom line, as the CTO of one of those portals I say go with Logical Hebrew and dump Netscape (In Israel Only). and don't forget to add the HTML DIR="rtl" tag at the beginning of each page. Sincerely berber Visit http://www.weberdev.com Today!!! To see where PHP might take you tomorrow. -Original Message- From: Manuel Lemos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 10:51 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PHP] Hebrew websites transition with php3 .. Hello Boaz, How are you doing these days? :-) On 28-Feb-01 16:39:35, you wrote: The figures I'm giving you are from
RE: [PHP] Hebrew websites transition with php3 ..
Hi Aviv Let me give you a small tip about Hebrew on the net. The proper Hebrew code which was adopted by the Israeli Institute of Standards is the Logical standard. This standard is automatically supported by IE 4.x and 5.x and also by Netscape 6.x. The percentage of not IE4.x or 5.x users in Israel is less than 3%. 3 of the major portals in Israel (Walla, Nana and MSN) are already moving to logical Hebrew. So why use Visual Hebrew? In case you decide to go with Visual in any case, did you try hebrevc()? Sincerely berber Visit http://www.weberdev.com Today!!! To see where PHP might take you tomorrow. -Original Message- From: Aviv Revach [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 1:43 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP] Hebrew websites transition with php3 .. Hey! I've just joined this mailing-list, therefore, first of all, I would like to say hello to everybody. Now, regarding the issue.. As some of you might know, handling with Hebrew websites is rather difficult. Hebrew words often come-out in reversed order (i.e. 'lmth' instead of 'html'). I'm working on a php3 script which would help me do the following - Load an existing HTML file which consists Hebrew words (as well as English words and HTML tags), then reversing the Hebrew words back to order. The problem I'm dealing with is how to reverse only the Hebrew words and not the entire document, which contains HTML tags and English words as well. The function 'hebrev()' does the process of reversing, but it reverses tags as well. I would really appreciate it, if anyone will find some spare time to help me. Thank you in advance - Aviv Revach XOR-Coders Mega Programming Resource Site! - http://members.xoom.com/xorcoders/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] Hebrew websites transition with php3 ..
Hey! Thank you for the quick reply. I do have some questions regarding your answer. From what I know and have seen so far, there are more than just 3% Internet users in Israel which use Netscape 4.x (I use it myself...). Are you sure that I should just ignore these people, and just use logical Hebrew? Also, quite a lot of people started using Opera lately.. (ain't speaking about Israeli users). Does Opera supports Logical Hebrew? If so, from which version? Best Regards - Aviv Revach At 15:20 28/02/01 +0200, Boaz Yahav wrote: Hi Aviv Let me give you a small tip about Hebrew on the net. The proper Hebrew code which was adopted by the Israeli Institute of Standards is the Logical standard. This standard is automatically supported by IE 4.x and 5.x and also by Netscape 6.x. The percentage of not IE4.x or 5.x users in Israel is less than 3%. 3 of the major portals in Israel (Walla, Nana and MSN) are already moving to logical Hebrew. So why use Visual Hebrew? In case you decide to go with Visual in any case, did you try hebrevc()? Sincerely berber Visit http://www.weberdev.com Today!!! To see where PHP might take you tomorrow. -Original Message- From: Aviv Revach [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 1:43 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP] Hebrew websites transition with php3 .. Hey! I've just joined this mailing-list, therefore, first of all, I would like to say hello to everybody. Now, regarding the issue.. As some of you might know, handling with Hebrew websites is rather difficult. Hebrew words often come-out in reversed order (i.e. 'lmth' instead of 'html'). I'm working on a php3 script which would help me do the following - Load an existing HTML file which consists Hebrew words (as well as English words and HTML tags), then reversing the Hebrew words back to order. The problem I'm dealing with is how to reverse only the Hebrew words and not the entire document, which contains HTML tags and English words as well. The function 'hebrev()' does the process of reversing, but it reverses tags as well. I would really appreciate it, if anyone will find some spare time to help me. Thank you in advance - Aviv Revach XOR-Coders Mega Programming Resource Site! - http://members.xoom.com/xorcoders/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] XOR-Coders Mega Programming Resource Site! - http://members.xoom.com/xorcoders/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] Hebrew websites transition with php3 ..
The figures I'm giving you are from one of the two biggest portals in Israel. it's less than 3%. I'm not sure about Opera, if you are developing for an Israeli audience, you can simply develop for IE 4.x and up. anyone with any other browser can go and get IE :) -Original Message- From: Aviv Revach [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 4:03 PM To: Boaz Yahav; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PHP] Hebrew websites transition with php3 .. Hey! Thank you for the quick reply. I do have some questions regarding your answer. From what I know and have seen so far, there are more than just 3% Internet users in Israel which use Netscape 4.x (I use it myself...). Are you sure that I should just ignore these people, and just use logical Hebrew? Also, quite a lot of people started using Opera lately.. (ain't speaking about Israeli users). Does Opera supports Logical Hebrew? If so, from which version? Best Regards - Aviv Revach At 15:20 28/02/01 +0200, Boaz Yahav wrote: Hi Aviv Let me give you a small tip about Hebrew on the net. The proper Hebrew code which was adopted by the Israeli Institute of Standards is the Logical standard. This standard is automatically supported by IE 4.x and 5.x and also by Netscape 6.x. The percentage of not IE4.x or 5.x users in Israel is less than 3%. 3 of the major portals in Israel (Walla, Nana and MSN) are already moving to logical Hebrew. So why use Visual Hebrew? In case you decide to go with Visual in any case, did you try hebrevc()? Sincerely berber Visit http://www.weberdev.com Today!!! To see where PHP might take you tomorrow. -Original Message- From: Aviv Revach [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 1:43 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP] Hebrew websites transition with php3 .. Hey! I've just joined this mailing-list, therefore, first of all, I would like to say hello to everybody. Now, regarding the issue.. As some of you might know, handling with Hebrew websites is rather difficult. Hebrew words often come-out in reversed order (i.e. 'lmth' instead of 'html'). I'm working on a php3 script which would help me do the following - Load an existing HTML file which consists Hebrew words (as well as English words and HTML tags), then reversing the Hebrew words back to order. The problem I'm dealing with is how to reverse only the Hebrew words and not the entire document, which contains HTML tags and English words as well. The function 'hebrev()' does the process of reversing, but it reverses tags as well. I would really appreciate it, if anyone will find some spare time to help me. Thank you in advance - Aviv Revach XOR-Coders Mega Programming Resource Site! - http://members.xoom.com/xorcoders/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] XOR-Coders Mega Programming Resource Site! - http://members.xoom.com/xorcoders/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] Hebrew websites transition with php3 ..
Hello Boaz, How are you doing these days? :-) On 28-Feb-01 16:39:35, you wrote: The figures I'm giving you are from one of the two biggest portals in Israel. it's less than 3%. Mind me for jumping in, but I think Aviv question about the truth of the 3% figure ie very pertinent. The way I see it it is a gross mistake to assume that the audience of a large portal is necessary a reflex of the potential audience of that portal. I also work for a large portal company (not for the Hebrew audience though) and I found people making the same large mistake. They looked at the sites audience and figure that there is over 90% of Internet Explorer users in a site that used IE specific DHTML. Needless to say that it didn't show right in Netscape. Given that sites do not show right in certain browsers, it looks obvious that almost nobody using those browsers would show in the browser audience rates. I even wonder why there are still 3% of users of browsers that do not support logical Hebrew display that go to your portal. Same for the 10% of Netscape users that go to that other site in my company portal. Maybe those are just lurkers that went there and gave up on the site and did not return because they could not see right what was in there. The reality is that it turns out that there is still about 30% os Netscape users, meaning that if you force a certain type of display that they don't see right, you loose their audience. Just my .02 EUR. :-) Manuel Lemos I'm not sure about Opera, if you are developing for an Israeli audience, you can simply develop for IE 4.x and up. anyone with any other browser can go and get IE :) -Original Message- From: Aviv Revach [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 4:03 PM To: Boaz Yahav; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PHP] Hebrew websites transition with php3 .. Hey! Thank you for the quick reply. I do have some questions regarding your answer. From what I know and have seen so far, there are more than just 3% Internet users in Israel which use Netscape 4.x (I use it myself...). Are you sure that I should just ignore these people, and just use logical Hebrew? Also, quite a lot of people started using Opera lately.. (ain't speaking about Israeli users). Does Opera supports Logical Hebrew? If so, from which version? Best Regards - Aviv Revach At 15:20 28/02/01 +0200, Boaz Yahav wrote: Hi Aviv Let me give you a small tip about Hebrew on the net. The proper Hebrew code which was adopted by the Israeli Institute of Standards is the Logical standard. This standard is automatically supported by IE 4.x and 5.x and also by Netscape 6.x. The percentage of not IE4.x or 5.x users in Israel is less than 3%. 3 of the major portals in Israel (Walla, Nana and MSN) are already moving to logical Hebrew. So why use Visual Hebrew? In case you decide to go with Visual in any case, did you try hebrevc()? Sincerely berber Visit http://www.weberdev.com Today!!! To see where PHP might take you tomorrow. -Original Message- From: Aviv Revach [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 1:43 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP] Hebrew websites transition with php3 .. Hey! I've just joined this mailing-list, therefore, first of all, I would like to say hello to everybody. Now, regarding the issue.. As some of you might know, handling with Hebrew websites is rather difficult. Hebrew words often come-out in reversed order (i.e. 'lmth' instead of 'html'). I'm working on a php3 script which would help me do the following - Load an existing HTML file which consists Hebrew words (as well as English words and HTML tags), then reversing the Hebrew words back to order. The problem I'm dealing with is how to reverse only the Hebrew words and not the entire document, which contains HTML tags and English words as well. The function 'hebrev()' does the process of reversing, but it reverses tags as well. I would really appreciate it, if anyone will find some spare time to help me. Thank you in advance - Aviv Revach XOR-Coders Mega Programming Resource Site! - http://members.xoom.com/xorcoders/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] XOR-Coders Mega Programming Resource Site! - http://members.xoom.com/xorcoders/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Regards, Manuel Lemos Web Programming Components using PHP Classes. Look at: http://phpclasses.UpperDesign.com/?[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL: http://www.mlemos.e-na.net/ PGP key: http://www.mlemos.e-na.net/ManuelLemos.pgp -- -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net
