Re: [PHP] PHP in corporate settings?
Jeff Lewis wrote: I still rarely ever see PHP mentioned in job listings and the like. Especially here in Canada I find it very hard to find any kinds of contacts for companies using PHP. My previous employer that I was with for 3+ years insisted on Micro$oft products and wanted to go with ASP. My current employer, a HUGE media/newspaper in Ontario goes with strictly Java. Is it that people still are hesitant to go wth open source based technology? Jeff Lewis Hi All, Just one point Java is actually open source, because you can get the source code for the JVM. It is not GPL what means that if you want to make money with it you have to pay for it (but after all Sun is a bussiness, and bussiness are for making money). One question how many programmers, technicians, support companies there aree for Microsoft Products? and now how many of them there are for PHP, open source, GPL? and I mean BIG companies. Beleive it or not certification is important. People fear to get stuck with something that anybody knows how to use. Maybe not all the time they choose it for this same reason. You might want to check this out http://www2.linuxjournal.com/lj-issues/issue85/index.html Sean C. McCarthy SCI, S.L. (www.sci-spain.com) BTW: I use Linux for work and home, and I like things like PHP ;-) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] PHP in corporate settings?
Just one point Java is actually open source, because you can get the source code for the JVM. It is not GPL what means that if you want to make money with it you have to pay for it (but after all Sun is a bussiness, and bussiness are for making money). Access to source code has very little to do with being Open Source. Access to source code is 1 out of 9 requirements for something to be open source. Please see http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.html -Rasmus -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] PHP in corporate settings?
Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: Just one point Java is actually open source, because you can get the source code for the JVM. It is not GPL what means that if you want to make money with it you have to pay for it (but after all Sun is a bussiness, and bussiness are for making money). Access to source code has very little to do with being Open Source. Access to source code is 1 out of 9 requirements for something to be open source. Please see http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.html -Rasmus Ok sorry about that. I read open source and not Open Source as OSD ;-) Sean C. McCarthy SCI, S.L. (www.sci-spain.com) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] PHP in corporate settings?
Yes I had wondered if someone was going to make that claim :) So far I haven't seen much in perl or Java that I CAN'T do in PHP. The user community is much more helpful, the PHP manual online is IMO simply amazing. I love that guide :) I just rarely see any jobs posted for PHP. Mostly ASP and Java. Jeff - Original Message - From: Rasmus Lerdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Sean C. McCarthy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [PHP] PHP in corporate settings? Just one point Java is actually open source, because you can get the source code for the JVM. It is not GPL what means that if you want to make money with it you have to pay for it (but after all Sun is a bussiness, and bussiness are for making money). Access to source code has very little to do with being Open Source. Access to source code is 1 out of 9 requirements for something to be open source. Please see http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.html -Rasmus -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] PHP in corporate settings?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 a big reason i use PHP as much as i do is becuase of the excellent documentation and ease of finding it all... -Original Message- From: Jeff Lewis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 1:02 PM To: Rasmus Lerdorf; Sean C. McCarthy Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP] PHP in corporate settings? Yes I had wondered if someone was going to make that claim :) So far I haven't seen much in perl or Java that I CAN'T do in PHP. The user community is much more helpful, the PHP manual online is IMO simply amazing. I love that guide :) I just rarely see any jobs posted for PHP. Mostly ASP and Java. Jeff - Original Message - From: Rasmus Lerdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Sean C. McCarthy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [PHP] PHP in corporate settings? Just one point Java is actually open source, because you can get the source code for the JVM. It is not GPL what means that if you want to make money with it you have to pay for it (but after all Sun is a bussiness, and bussiness are for making money). Access to source code has very little to do with being Open Source. Access to source code is 1 out of 9 requirements for something to be open source. Please see http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.html -Rasmus -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBO3LXhMaXTGgZdrSUEQJfmACfY9aepUvwf1fl7VJbFJwk1OEvdR4AnRDF i3qL9uw4YnlYFAS+UjXyRtX2 =yQlA -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] PHP in corporate settings?
On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Jeff Lewis wrote: Yes I had wondered if someone was going to make that claim :) So far I haven't seen much in perl or Java that I CAN'T do in PHP. The user community is much more helpful, the PHP manual online is IMO simply amazing. I love that guide :) I just rarely see any jobs posted for PHP. Mostly ASP and Java. Just a plug for my favorite country.. :) There are tons of jobs in Germany for PHP developers.. some of the largest CMS providers who sell systems for 20K-200K EUR deploy PHP and they often have a growing need for more developers. Germany is generally quite open towards PHP and related technologies; the first dedicated PHP conference was held in Germany last year; second, the Government is actually pushing the development of open-source technologies and actively participates in certain events and open-source conferences; third, Germany has now a full-blown registered association which will actively work on the promotion of PHP. - Sascha Experience IRCG http://schumann.cx/http://schumann.cx/ircg -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] PHP in corporate settings?
Agreed! Kudos to the persons responsible for creating the php manual. It is imho, the most concise and accessible documentation of any technology that i have used on the net. The technology is astounding as well! I know i am rapidly becoming an evangelist :) q. Subject: RE: [PHP] PHP in corporate settings? a big reason i use PHP as much as i do is becuase of the excellent documentation and ease of finding it all... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] PHP in corporate settings?
Bzzzt...Wrong! But thank you for playing. If you read the FAQ on Sun's Open Source website not only do they admit Java is not open source, but they sort of tip toe around whether or not it ever will be. http://www.sunsource.net/faq.html#Java Sheridan Saint-Michel Website Administrator FoxJet, an ITW Company www.foxjet.com Snip Just one point Java is actually open source, because you can get the source code for the JVM. It is not GPL what means that if you want to make money with it you have to pay for it (but after all Sun is a bussiness, and bussiness are for making money). Snip Sean C. McCarthy SCI, S.L. (www.sci-spain.com) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] PHP in corporate settings?
On Thu, 09 Aug 2001 14:30:43 -0500, Sheridan Saint-Michel ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Bzzzt...Wrong! But thank you for playing. If you read the FAQ on Sun's Open Source website not only do they admit Java is not open source, but they sort of tip toe around whether or not it ever will be. well, I think it depends on if you're talking about java the language, java the jvm, or java the bytecode compiler. which of these do you need to be open source. I know of at least one open source jvm (kaffe), and I believe IBM may have released an open source compiler http://www.sunsource.net/faq.html#Java Sheridan Saint-Michel Website Administrator FoxJet, an ITW Company www.foxjet.com Snip Just one point Java is actually open source, because you can get the source code for the JVM. It is not GPL what means that if you want to make money with it you have to pay for it (but after all Sun is a bussiness, and bussiness are for making money). Snip Sean C. McCarthy SCI, S.L. (www.sci-spain.com) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: php-list- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] PHP in corporate settings?
In my experience Scandinavia (well nordic really, can't forget finland) and germany (and a few other european countries...notably not england) are much more open to open source (no pun intended) to open source and the like.. their concerns are sensible ones. Something in the mentality. northern america/UK etc are much more short-sighted in their perspective. Just a norwegians point of view, thats all... On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Jeff Lewis wrote: Yes I had wondered if someone was going to make that claim :) So far I haven't seen much in perl or Java that I CAN'T do in PHP. The user community is much more helpful, the PHP manual online is IMO simply amazing. I love that guide :) I just rarely see any jobs posted for PHP. Mostly ASP and Java. Just a plug for my favorite country.. :) There are tons of jobs in Germany for PHP developers.. some of the largest CMS providers who sell systems for 20K-200K EUR deploy PHP and they often have a growing need for more developers. Germany is generally quite open towards PHP and related technologies; the first dedicated PHP conference was held in Germany last year; second, the Government is actually pushing the development of open-source technologies and actively participates in certain events and open-source conferences; third, Germany has now a full-blown registered association which will actively work on the promotion of PHP. - Sascha Experience IRCG http://schumann.cx/http://schumann.cx/ircg -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] PHP in corporate settings?
I am talking about the JDK... or the compiler and the JVM. I don't think the language itself can be copyrighted as it falls under a method of operation which (in the US at least) is not copyrightable (Correct me if I am wrong. IANAL) Since you mentioned Kaffe I visited their homepage www.kaffe.org Kaffe is an Open Source Java Clone, and while I salute their efforts, they are not at a level to be competitive with Sun as of yet (Their site indicates that PARTS of Kaffe are now compatible with JDK 1.2 Sun has already released JDK 1.3 and JDK 1.4 Beta) Basically, at the moment, if you want to use Java Source in your commercial product you have the option of paying Sun royalties or using OSS alternatives which are months or years behind. The fact that you have to pay royalties to Sun for any type of project violates the first rule of Open Source (Which can be viewed with this link http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.html which Rasmus was kind enough to provide =P ) and means that Java is not Open Source... which was my original point =) You may also want to read this story, which was a link in Kaffe's liscensing FAQ http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,1013904,00.html Sheridan Saint-Michel Website Administrator FoxJet, an ITW Company www.foxjet.com - Original Message - From: Mark Maggelet [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [PHP] PHP in corporate settings? On Thu, 09 Aug 2001 14:30:43 -0500, Sheridan Saint-Michel ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Bzzzt...Wrong! But thank you for playing. If you read the FAQ on Sun's Open Source website not only do they admit Java is not open source, but they sort of tip toe around whether or not it ever will be. well, I think it depends on if you're talking about java the language, java the jvm, or java the bytecode compiler. which of these do you need to be open source. I know of at least one open source jvm (kaffe), and I believe IBM may have released an open source compiler http://www.sunsource.net/faq.html#Java Sheridan Saint-Michel Website Administrator FoxJet, an ITW Company www.foxjet.com Snip Just one point Java is actually open source, because you can get the source code for the JVM. It is not GPL what means that if you want to make money with it you have to pay for it (but after all Sun is a bussiness, and bussiness are for making money). Snip Sean C. McCarthy SCI, S.L. (www.sci-spain.com) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
