Re: Installfest matters
Nope. Meetings are not on the same day as PLUG (currently). However, this is not necessarily for PLUG members, anyway. We are further east in the Technology Corridor near the Polytechnic Campus, GT Advanced, and EVIT. And as Hans mentioned many times... competition is great. So anyway, the meetings are set(right now) for 3rd Wednesdays. We are near Communiversity, EVIT and the Polytechnic Campus. In the beginning, we may not have a lot of membership. However, we expect that there will be interest by some people in that corridor. Thank you for your opinion, though - regarding the time for the LUG meeting. We actually do take feedback into consideration. We do conflict with the Red Hat Meetup, though. Now, here are some details. We are going to additionally have a short presentation on HTTPS Everywhere. We do not have a lot of guest presenters at this time. If someone wants to give a presentation, let us know. In the future, we plan to have some presenters who may not be with us in person but have some great projects and information to present from a distance. On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 5:26 PM, Alan Dayley aday...@gmail.com wrote: Great question, Jerry. Kaoru, I am a supporter of the idea of user groups proliferating in Arizona. Sometimes one group seems to have a maximum size and grows no farther, with additional opportunities for contribution stymied by this amorphous maximum. Additional groups can create space and place for more people to join in the movement. More groups also means more variety of topics and faster learning for those who want to regularly attend the meetings of several groups. We might hope that someday there may be so many user groups that it is not possible to prevent conflicting meeting times and dates. Today is not that day. It is disappointing to think that a new group would choose to meet on the same day and time of another long established group. Alan On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 12:19 AM, Jerry Snitselaar d...@snitselaar.org wrote: On Thu Aug 21 14, Kaoru Wilbur wrote: [1]http://www.mpglug.org Meetings to be held in the Town of Queen Creek Annex. Is that a typo on the website, or are the meetings going to be on the same night as the PLUG east valley meetings? Regards, Jerry --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Installfest matters
Sorry, did you already post the day and time? On 2014-08-23 10:57, Kaoru Wilbur wrote: Nope. Meetings are not on the same day as PLUG (currently). However, this is not necessarily for PLUG members, anyway. We are further east in the Technology Corridor near the Polytechnic Campus, GT Advanced, and EVIT. And as Hans mentioned many times... competition is great. So anyway, the meetings are set(right now) for 3rd Wednesdays. We are near Communiversity, EVIT and the Polytechnic Campus. In the beginning, we may not have a lot of membership. However, we expect that there will be interest by some people in that corridor. Thank you for your opinion, though - regarding the time for the LUG meeting. We actually do take feedback into consideration. We do conflict with the Red Hat Meetup, though. Now, here are some details. We are going to additionally have a short presentation on HTTPS Everywhere. We do not have a lot of guest presenters at this time. If someone wants to give a presentation, let us know. In the future, we plan to have some presenters who may not be with us in person but have some great projects and information to present from a distance. On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 5:26 PM, Alan Dayley aday...@gmail.com wrote: Great question, Jerry. Kaoru, I am a supporter of the idea of user groups proliferating in Arizona. Sometimes one group seems to have a maximum size and grows no farther, with additional opportunities for contribution stymied by this amorphous maximum. Additional groups can create space and place for more people to join in the movement. More groups also means more variety of topics and faster learning for those who want to regularly attend the meetings of several groups. We might hope that someday there may be so many user groups that it is not possible to prevent conflicting meeting times and dates. Today is not that day. It is disappointing to think that a new group would choose to meet on the same day and time of another long established group. Alan On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 12:19 AM, Jerry Snitselaar d...@snitselaar.org wrote: On Thu Aug 21 14, Kaoru Wilbur wrote: [1]http://www.mpglug.org [1] Meetings to be held in the Town of Queen Creek Annex. Is that a typo on the website, or are the meetings going to be on the same night as the PLUG east valley meetings? Regards, Jerry --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [2] --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [2] Links: -- [1] http://www.mpglug.org [2] http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Installfest matters
Sorry I see it is the 3rd Wednesdays. What is the time? On 2014-08-23 11:12, techli...@phpcoderusa.com wrote: Sorry, did you already post the day and time? On 2014-08-23 10:57, Kaoru Wilbur wrote: Nope. Meetings are not on the same day as PLUG (currently). However, this is not necessarily for PLUG members, anyway. We are further east in the Technology Corridor near the Polytechnic Campus, GT Advanced, and EVIT. And as Hans mentioned many times... competition is great. So anyway, the meetings are set(right now) for 3rd Wednesdays. We are near Communiversity, EVIT and the Polytechnic Campus. In the beginning, we may not have a lot of membership. However, we expect that there will be interest by some people in that corridor. Thank you for your opinion, though - regarding the time for the LUG meeting. We actually do take feedback into consideration. We do conflict with the Red Hat Meetup, though. Now, here are some details. We are going to additionally have a short presentation on HTTPS Everywhere. We do not have a lot of guest presenters at this time. If someone wants to give a presentation, let us know. In the future, we plan to have some presenters who may not be with us in person but have some great projects and information to present from a distance. On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 5:26 PM, Alan Dayley aday...@gmail.com wrote: Great question, Jerry. Kaoru, I am a supporter of the idea of user groups proliferating in Arizona. Sometimes one group seems to have a maximum size and grows no farther, with additional opportunities for contribution stymied by this amorphous maximum. Additional groups can create space and place for more people to join in the movement. More groups also means more variety of topics and faster learning for those who want to regularly attend the meetings of several groups. We might hope that someday there may be so many user groups that it is not possible to prevent conflicting meeting times and dates. Today is not that day. It is disappointing to think that a new group would choose to meet on the same day and time of another long established group. Alan On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 12:19 AM, Jerry Snitselaar d...@snitselaar.org wrote: On Thu Aug 21 14, Kaoru Wilbur wrote: [1]http://www.mpglug.org [1] Meetings to be held in the Town of Queen Creek Annex. Is that a typo on the website, or are the meetings going to be on the same night as the PLUG east valley meetings? Regards, Jerry --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [2] --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [2] Links: -- [1] http://www.mpglug.org [2] http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Installfest matters
Yeah. Sorry, I forgot the link. We just closed on the date and time yesterday. http://www.meetup.com/Maricopa-Pinal-GN/ September 17 6-8 Queen Creek Library http://www.meetup.com/Maricopa-Pinal-GN/events/202614482/ 21802 S. Ellsworth Rd , Queen Creek, AZErma Bombeck roomParking on the north side of the building. On Sat, Aug 23, 2014 at 9:47 AM, techli...@phpcoderusa.com wrote: Sorry I see it is the 3rd Wednesdays. What is the time? On 2014-08-23 11:12, techli...@phpcoderusa.com wrote: Sorry, did you already post the day and time? On 2014-08-23 10:57, Kaoru Wilbur wrote: Nope. Meetings are not on the same day as PLUG (currently). However, this is not necessarily for PLUG members, anyway. We are further east in the Technology Corridor near the Polytechnic Campus, GT Advanced, and EVIT. And as Hans mentioned many times... competition is great. So anyway, the meetings are set(right now) for 3rd Wednesdays. We are near Communiversity, EVIT and the Polytechnic Campus. In the beginning, we may not have a lot of membership. However, we expect that there will be interest by some people in that corridor. Thank you for your opinion, though - regarding the time for the LUG meeting. We actually do take feedback into consideration. We do conflict with the Red Hat Meetup, though. Now, here are some details. We are going to additionally have a short presentation on HTTPS Everywhere. We do not have a lot of guest presenters at this time. If someone wants to give a presentation, let us know. In the future, we plan to have some presenters who may not be with us in person but have some great projects and information to present from a distance. On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 5:26 PM, Alan Dayley aday...@gmail.com wrote: Great question, Jerry. Kaoru, I am a supporter of the idea of user groups proliferating in Arizona. Sometimes one group seems to have a maximum size and grows no farther, with additional opportunities for contribution stymied by this amorphous maximum. Additional groups can create space and place for more people to join in the movement. More groups also means more variety of topics and faster learning for those who want to regularly attend the meetings of several groups. We might hope that someday there may be so many user groups that it is not possible to prevent conflicting meeting times and dates. Today is not that day. It is disappointing to think that a new group would choose to meet on the same day and time of another long established group. Alan On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 12:19 AM, Jerry Snitselaar d...@snitselaar.org wrote: On Thu Aug 21 14, Kaoru Wilbur wrote: [1]http://www.mpglug.org [1] Meetings to be held in the Town of Queen Creek Annex. Is that a typo on the website, or are the meetings going to be on the same night as the PLUG east valley meetings? Regards, Jerry --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [2] --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [2] Links: -- [1] http://www.mpglug.org [2] http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Installfest matters
On Sat Aug 23 14, Kaoru Wilbur wrote: Nope. Meetings are not on the same day as PLUG (currently). However, this is not necessarily for PLUG members, anyway. We are further east in the Technology Corridor near the Polytechnic Campus, GT Advanced, and EVIT. And as Hans mentioned many times... competition is great. So anyway, the meetings are set(right now) for 3rd Wednesdays. We are near Communiversity, EVIT and the Polytechnic Campus. In the beginning, we may not have a lot of membership. However, we expect that there will be interest by some people in that corridor. Thank you for your opinion, though - regarding the time for the LUG meeting. We actually do take feedback into consideration. We do conflict with the Red Hat Meetup, though. Now, here are some details. We are going to additionally have a short presentation on HTTPS Everywhere. We do not have a lot of guest presenters at this time. If someone wants to give a presentation, let us know. In the future, we plan to have some presenters who may not be with us in person but have some great projects and information to present from a distance. Thanks for the response Marcia, and updating the website. Jerry --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Installfest matters
On Thu Aug 21 14, Kaoru Wilbur wrote: [1]http://www.mpglug.org Meetings to be held in the Town of Queen Creek Annex. Is that a typo on the website, or are the meetings going to be on the same night as the PLUG east valley meetings? Regards, Jerry --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Installfest matters
Great question, Jerry. Kaoru, I am a supporter of the idea of user groups proliferating in Arizona. Sometimes one group seems to have a maximum size and grows no farther, with additional opportunities for contribution stymied by this amorphous maximum. Additional groups can create space and place for more people to join in the movement. More groups also means more variety of topics and faster learning for those who want to regularly attend the meetings of several groups. We might hope that someday there may be so many user groups that it is not possible to prevent conflicting meeting times and dates. Today is not that day. It is disappointing to think that a new group would choose to meet on the same day and time of another long established group. Alan On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 12:19 AM, Jerry Snitselaar d...@snitselaar.org wrote: On Thu Aug 21 14, Kaoru Wilbur wrote: [1]http://www.mpglug.org Meetings to be held in the Town of Queen Creek Annex. Is that a typo on the website, or are the meetings going to be on the same night as the PLUG east valley meetings? Regards, Jerry --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Installfest matters
Are both of the pages the same group? https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=565460910248711id=556228454505290 https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=556228454505290story_fbid=565462070248595 On 2014-08-20 00:46, Kaoru Wilbur wrote: Great info Mark. I am sure the new Maricopa Pinal GNU Linux users group will find this useful as they complete their charter. On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 6:35 PM, Mark Phillips m...@phillipsmarketing.biz wrote: Just to add my two cents to the non-profit discussion. I set up a 501c3 corporation over 10 years ago for my daughters' club softball teams. I was the head coach and president of the corporation. I had a lawyer help with the application as probono workI downloaded the application from the IRS, filled it out, asked the attorney a few questions, he reviewed the final application, and the IRS approved it. I kept the books in gnucash and filed the annual tax forms myselfa few reports from gnucash and some electronic filings with the state and IRS. I had three teams and over $45K in annual donations, so it was not that small of an operation. It was easy. It is amazing what one can learn by just reading the IRS handouts. I did not need a CPA or attorney after the initial filing with the IRS. I also haven't been audited or sent to jail for my 501c3. I am also not a CPA or attorney...just an engineer with an MBA. I think there is a certain mystic about non-profit organizations that is just not true. It is not that big of a deal. You need three officers, just like any other AZ corporation to get started. I am not volunteering to set up the non-profit, nor do I have an opinion whether PLUG should be a non-profit or not. I am just saying that from my personal experience, it is not as scary and difficult to setup and run a non-profit as part of this discussion is making it out to be. Mark On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 1:53 PM, Gilbert T. Gutierrez, Jr. mailing-li...@phoenixinternet.net wrote: There are ongoing costs to being a non-profit. You do have to file taxes every year. I believe in the past that was not so if you were not having a certain amount of funds running through your accounts. Additionally, the board, or officers, are responsible for the accuracy of those taxes and the compliance of the organization which should not ever be overlooked. I would not say its a good thing or a bad thing. I would say it is a good thing if you have a bunch of corporate donors lined up to provide significant funding to some of the plug activities. If you are speaking of a $100 here or there (under $1k/year), I would say that it is a waste of time becoming a non-profit. You will have to have money to maintain the following... 1. CPA for tax season, 2. Lawyer (mostly for initial filings, but also for organization), 3. Commercial bank account (banks charge for those things). This is my 2 cents only. I was once on the board of a charitable organization that failed. It was a lot of work and I always had concerns about money mismanagement. Gilbert On 8/19/2014 12:24 PM, Ed wrote: The need to be a non-profit, and not being one, has bit us in the ass in the past. this should be done now as there is no pressing need - when the need occurs is not when you want to be starting this. There are some initial costs (fees) just becoming a state recognized organization, getting a federal non-profit status will take longer - The purpose would be education. A bank account is needed and finding a lawyer/accountant that is willing to support the group pro-bono (post a wanted add at ASU) are also needed. Don't skimp on infrastructure - you're starting a distributed group, support it. Start with a group of founders (10+) - each founder brings a C-note Start fresh - don't reverse into an established papertrail - don't play adopt a fubar (unless that fubar is a shell of a listed public company - even then it's a bad idea) Keep detailed records of who does what when, you are maintaining IP now. when talking to other non-profits, ask who they use - get a referral - take a meeting - make a list. think about who is good for the advisory board (ie not people you now know) pay them. involve more people than you think you will need - you will need more - tasks should be assigned to teams (not people) share everything - keep open books --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [1] --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [1] Links: -- [1] http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list -
Re: Installfest matters
they both ultimately go to the same place https://www.facebook.com/pages/Maricopa-Pinal-GNU-Linux-Users-Group/556228454505290?fref=nf On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 11:48 AM, techli...@phpcoderusa.com wrote: Are both of the pages the same group? https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=565460910248711id= 556228454505290 https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=556228454505290story_fbid= 565462070248595 On 2014-08-20 00:46, Kaoru Wilbur wrote: Great info Mark. I am sure the new Maricopa Pinal GNU Linux users group will find this useful as they complete their charter. On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 6:35 PM, Mark Phillips m...@phillipsmarketing.biz wrote: Just to add my two cents to the non-profit discussion. I set up a 501c3 corporation over 10 years ago for my daughters' club softball teams. I was the head coach and president of the corporation. I had a lawyer help with the application as probono workI downloaded the application from the IRS, filled it out, asked the attorney a few questions, he reviewed the final application, and the IRS approved it. I kept the books in gnucash and filed the annual tax forms myselfa few reports from gnucash and some electronic filings with the state and IRS. I had three teams and over $45K in annual donations, so it was not that small of an operation. It was easy. It is amazing what one can learn by just reading the IRS handouts. I did not need a CPA or attorney after the initial filing with the IRS. I also haven't been audited or sent to jail for my 501c3. I am also not a CPA or attorney...just an engineer with an MBA. I think there is a certain mystic about non-profit organizations that is just not true. It is not that big of a deal. You need three officers, just like any other AZ corporation to get started. I am not volunteering to set up the non-profit, nor do I have an opinion whether PLUG should be a non-profit or not. I am just saying that from my personal experience, it is not as scary and difficult to setup and run a non-profit as part of this discussion is making it out to be. Mark On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 1:53 PM, Gilbert T. Gutierrez, Jr. mailing-li...@phoenixinternet.net wrote: There are ongoing costs to being a non-profit. You do have to file taxes every year. I believe in the past that was not so if you were not having a certain amount of funds running through your accounts. Additionally, the board, or officers, are responsible for the accuracy of those taxes and the compliance of the organization which should not ever be overlooked. I would not say its a good thing or a bad thing. I would say it is a good thing if you have a bunch of corporate donors lined up to provide significant funding to some of the plug activities. If you are speaking of a $100 here or there (under $1k/year), I would say that it is a waste of time becoming a non-profit. You will have to have money to maintain the following... 1. CPA for tax season, 2. Lawyer (mostly for initial filings, but also for organization), 3. Commercial bank account (banks charge for those things). This is my 2 cents only. I was once on the board of a charitable organization that failed. It was a lot of work and I always had concerns about money mismanagement. Gilbert On 8/19/2014 12:24 PM, Ed wrote: The need to be a non-profit, and not being one, has bit us in the ass in the past. this should be done now as there is no pressing need - when the need occurs is not when you want to be starting this. There are some initial costs (fees) just becoming a state recognized organization, getting a federal non-profit status will take longer - The purpose would be education. A bank account is needed and finding a lawyer/accountant that is willing to support the group pro-bono (post a wanted add at ASU) are also needed. Don't skimp on infrastructure - you're starting a distributed group, support it. Start with a group of founders (10+) - each founder brings a C-note Start fresh - don't reverse into an established papertrail - don't play adopt a fubar (unless that fubar is a shell of a listed public company - even then it's a bad idea) Keep detailed records of who does what when, you are maintaining IP now. when talking to other non-profits, ask who they use - get a referral - take a meeting - make a list. think about who is good for the advisory board (ie not people you now know) pay them. involve more people than you think you will need - you will need more - tasks should be assigned to teams (not people) share everything - keep open books --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [1] --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To
Re: Installfest matters
http://www.mpglug.org Meetings to be held in the Town of Queen Creek Annex. On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 1:39 PM, Stephen Partington cryptwo...@gmail.com wrote: they both ultimately go to the same place https://www.facebook.com/pages/Maricopa-Pinal-GNU-Linux-Users-Group/556228454505290?fref=nf On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 11:48 AM, techli...@phpcoderusa.com wrote: Are both of the pages the same group? https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=565460910248711id= 556228454505290 https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=556228454505290story_fbid= 565462070248595 On 2014-08-20 00:46, Kaoru Wilbur wrote: Great info Mark. I am sure the new Maricopa Pinal GNU Linux users group will find this useful as they complete their charter. On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 6:35 PM, Mark Phillips m...@phillipsmarketing.biz wrote: Just to add my two cents to the non-profit discussion. I set up a 501c3 corporation over 10 years ago for my daughters' club softball teams. I was the head coach and president of the corporation. I had a lawyer help with the application as probono workI downloaded the application from the IRS, filled it out, asked the attorney a few questions, he reviewed the final application, and the IRS approved it. I kept the books in gnucash and filed the annual tax forms myselfa few reports from gnucash and some electronic filings with the state and IRS. I had three teams and over $45K in annual donations, so it was not that small of an operation. It was easy. It is amazing what one can learn by just reading the IRS handouts. I did not need a CPA or attorney after the initial filing with the IRS. I also haven't been audited or sent to jail for my 501c3. I am also not a CPA or attorney...just an engineer with an MBA. I think there is a certain mystic about non-profit organizations that is just not true. It is not that big of a deal. You need three officers, just like any other AZ corporation to get started. I am not volunteering to set up the non-profit, nor do I have an opinion whether PLUG should be a non-profit or not. I am just saying that from my personal experience, it is not as scary and difficult to setup and run a non-profit as part of this discussion is making it out to be. Mark On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 1:53 PM, Gilbert T. Gutierrez, Jr. mailing-li...@phoenixinternet.net wrote: There are ongoing costs to being a non-profit. You do have to file taxes every year. I believe in the past that was not so if you were not having a certain amount of funds running through your accounts. Additionally, the board, or officers, are responsible for the accuracy of those taxes and the compliance of the organization which should not ever be overlooked. I would not say its a good thing or a bad thing. I would say it is a good thing if you have a bunch of corporate donors lined up to provide significant funding to some of the plug activities. If you are speaking of a $100 here or there (under $1k/year), I would say that it is a waste of time becoming a non-profit. You will have to have money to maintain the following... 1. CPA for tax season, 2. Lawyer (mostly for initial filings, but also for organization), 3. Commercial bank account (banks charge for those things). This is my 2 cents only. I was once on the board of a charitable organization that failed. It was a lot of work and I always had concerns about money mismanagement. Gilbert On 8/19/2014 12:24 PM, Ed wrote: The need to be a non-profit, and not being one, has bit us in the ass in the past. this should be done now as there is no pressing need - when the need occurs is not when you want to be starting this. There are some initial costs (fees) just becoming a state recognized organization, getting a federal non-profit status will take longer - The purpose would be education. A bank account is needed and finding a lawyer/accountant that is willing to support the group pro-bono (post a wanted add at ASU) are also needed. Don't skimp on infrastructure - you're starting a distributed group, support it. Start with a group of founders (10+) - each founder brings a C-note Start fresh - don't reverse into an established papertrail - don't play adopt a fubar (unless that fubar is a shell of a listed public company - even then it's a bad idea) Keep detailed records of who does what when, you are maintaining IP now. when talking to other non-profits, ask who they use - get a referral - take a meeting - make a list. think about who is good for the advisory board (ie not people you now know) pay them. involve more people than you think you will need - you will need more - tasks should be assigned to teams (not people) share everything - keep open books --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
Re: Installfest matters
Well if it's that hard to maintain a non-profit how does the San Diego LUG, and the Portland and Seattle LUGS manage? How does Heatsync labs do it? It is EASY! Why would we, who can read any HOWTO and do any technical thing, think we would need either a CPU or a lawyer? On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 8:40 AM, techli...@phpcoderusa.com wrote: Around 1999, while living in Tucson, I joined PLUG and the Tucson Free Unix Group (TFUG) lists. For years we went back and forth about formalizing TFUG. We had at least one meeting and there was lots of discussions on the list. After several years it was decided that no structure was the best structure. You bring up a couple of the benefits, what about the down side. Creating a non profit takes a lot of work. And once that status has been reached there is on going requirements that probably require the help of a lawyer and a CPA. Then there is the issue of ownership and control. This process could start out with good intentions and could turn evil real quick. Or maybe the maintainers quit. Who steps in to take over? What might their intent be? Structure can be good, however I think most of us just want to enjoy Linux and Linux related stuff and be free in doing so. I've been a member of this list for about 15 years and the people on this list have helped me immensely. I appreciate all the help you folks have given me and I'm sure I would not have gotten as far without your help. Keith On 2014-08-19 03:02, Lisa Kachold wrote: Great idea! I doubt that you will get them (him) to agree to follow anything that includes rules and structure to allow for success ( a large healthy LUG). As long as people are arguing minutia they will never notice all the secondary gain that keeps successful professionals uninvolved and uninterested. In 2002 I suggested Nonprofit status so people running the LUG functions and donating funds and equipment can write off reasonable tax exceptions. I wrote the whole process up in the discuss list which was the impetus for heatsink labs in Mesa to jump to grants and success through internships, etc. I told Hans I would do it all myself and he laughed in my face. Anyone who has lived in a comparably sized city knows what a healthy LUG is capable of simply by following direction already decreed in various guides. So, after the installfest conversation in PLUG IRC yesterday regarding installfest matters, I noticed that a lot of the items discussed are actually guidelines already presented in the Linux Installfest HOWTO. Many improvements to the PLUG Installfest can be made by following these guidelines. Why are we beating a dead horse... Many of these items are part of the HOWTO already. I propose the Linux Installfest HOWTO be used as a guide for discussion and installfests. Has everyone had a chance to look these over? Can we agree to use the HOWTO as a guideline? I believe these installfest items will be on the table for discussion tomorrow evening. Is that correct? If so, I will be attending but not exactly at 7pm. You can either fill me in or wait. I'm thinking 8ish at the latest. As far as I am concerned, I think one thing we can improve and hopefully agree upon is following the installfest HOWTO as a guideline. See you tomorrow!!! :) Marcia --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [1] Links: -- [1] http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Installfest matters
I'm a lurker on Plug so my vote counts for nothing.. but here is my 2 cents worth. Non profit status means that companies can help this group by providing server space, hosting, and other items and receive a tax write off for doing so. While setting one up does take some knowledge I know of individuals that have set them up without a lawyer or a CPA. It also means that the PLUG can have it's own bank account, collect donations, and other things a company can do. It sounds like Lisa is willing to do the leg work... the other arguments seem moot to me.. if the people in Plug quit it dies regardless of whether it is a non profit or not and people in Plug set whatever the 'rules' are. http://www.azcc.gov/Divisions/Corporations/where-do-i-start.asp#nonprofit_corp -- JD Austin Voice: 480.269.4335 (480 2MY Geek) j...@twingeckos.com On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 10:10 AM, Lisa Kachold foo...@it-clowns.com wrote: Well if it's that hard to maintain a non-profit how does the San Diego LUG, and the Portland and Seattle LUGS manage? How does Heatsync labs do it? It is EASY! Why would we, who can read any HOWTO and do any technical thing, think we would need either a CPU or a lawyer? On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 8:40 AM, techli...@phpcoderusa.com wrote: Around 1999, while living in Tucson, I joined PLUG and the Tucson Free Unix Group (TFUG) lists. For years we went back and forth about formalizing TFUG. We had at least one meeting and there was lots of discussions on the list. After several years it was decided that no structure was the best structure. You bring up a couple of the benefits, what about the down side. Creating a non profit takes a lot of work. And once that status has been reached there is on going requirements that probably require the help of a lawyer and a CPA. Then there is the issue of ownership and control. This process could start out with good intentions and could turn evil real quick. Or maybe the maintainers quit. Who steps in to take over? What might their intent be? Structure can be good, however I think most of us just want to enjoy Linux and Linux related stuff and be free in doing so. I've been a member of this list for about 15 years and the people on this list have helped me immensely. I appreciate all the help you folks have given me and I'm sure I would not have gotten as far without your help. Keith On 2014-08-19 03:02, Lisa Kachold wrote: Great idea! I doubt that you will get them (him) to agree to follow anything that includes rules and structure to allow for success ( a large healthy LUG). As long as people are arguing minutia they will never notice all the secondary gain that keeps successful professionals uninvolved and uninterested. In 2002 I suggested Nonprofit status so people running the LUG functions and donating funds and equipment can write off reasonable tax exceptions. I wrote the whole process up in the discuss list which was the impetus for heatsink labs in Mesa to jump to grants and success through internships, etc. I told Hans I would do it all myself and he laughed in my face. Anyone who has lived in a comparably sized city knows what a healthy LUG is capable of simply by following direction already decreed in various guides. So, after the installfest conversation in PLUG IRC yesterday regarding installfest matters, I noticed that a lot of the items discussed are actually guidelines already presented in the Linux Installfest HOWTO. Many improvements to the PLUG Installfest can be made by following these guidelines. Why are we beating a dead horse... Many of these items are part of the HOWTO already. I propose the Linux Installfest HOWTO be used as a guide for discussion and installfests. Has everyone had a chance to look these over? Can we agree to use the HOWTO as a guideline? I believe these installfest items will be on the table for discussion tomorrow evening. Is that correct? If so, I will be attending but not exactly at 7pm. You can either fill me in or wait. I'm thinking 8ish at the latest. As far as I am concerned, I think one thing we can improve and hopefully agree upon is following the installfest HOWTO as a guideline. See you tomorrow!!! :) Marcia --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [1] Links: -- [1] http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail
Re: Installfest matters
On 2014-08-19 12:10, Lisa Kachold wrote: Well if it's that hard to maintain a non-profit how does the San Diego LUG, and the Portland and Seattle LUGS manage? How does Heatsync labs do it? It is EASY! I cannot answer that. We are a different group and maybe what is important to those groups is not important to PLUG. Have you contacted those goups to see what they think after the fact? Maybe it has something to do with being in AZ. AZ is more conservative and tends to like less oversight especially government oversight. By becoming a non-profit PLUG would become a government entity with all that comes with that. Please keep in mind it does not matter to me either way. I responded just to share. If the group wants to incorporate I am along for the ride. If doing so does not change PLUG in any significant way then it is not an issue for me. If, however incorporating causes problems, then it effects all of us. Why would we, who can read any HOWTO and do any technical thing, think we would need either a CPU or a lawyer? This is a legal issue and I'm sure it requires the ongoing expertise of the experts. Going it alone is risky. On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 8:40 AM, techli...@phpcoderusa.com wrote: Around 1999, while living in Tucson, I joined PLUG and the Tucson Free Unix Group (TFUG) lists. For years we went back and forth about formalizing TFUG. We had at least one meeting and there was lots of discussions on the list. After several years it was decided that no structure was the best structure. You bring up a couple of the benefits, what about the down side. Creating a non profit takes a lot of work. And once that status has been reached there is on going requirements that probably require the help of a lawyer and a CPA. Then there is the issue of ownership and control. This process could start out with good intentions and could turn evil real quick. Or maybe the maintainers quit. Who steps in to take over? What might their intent be? Structure can be good, however I think most of us just want to enjoy Linux and Linux related stuff and be free in doing so. I've been a member of this list for about 15 years and the people on this list have helped me immensely. I appreciate all the help you folks have given me and I'm sure I would not have gotten as far without your help. Keith On 2014-08-19 03:02, Lisa Kachold wrote: Great idea! I doubt that you will get them (him) to agree to follow anything that includes rules and structure to allow for success ( a large healthy LUG). As long as people are arguing minutia they will never notice all the secondary gain that keeps successful professionals uninvolved and uninterested. In 2002 I suggested Nonprofit status so people running the LUG functions and donating funds and equipment can write off reasonable tax exceptions. I wrote the whole process up in the discuss list which was the impetus for heatsink labs in Mesa to jump to grants and success through internships, etc. I told Hans I would do it all myself and he laughed in my face. Anyone who has lived in a comparably sized city knows what a healthy LUG is capable of simply by following direction already decreed in various guides. So, after the installfest conversation in PLUG IRC yesterday regarding installfest matters, I noticed that a lot of the items discussed are actually guidelines already presented in the Linux Installfest HOWTO. Many improvements to the PLUG Installfest can be made by following these guidelines. Why are we beating a dead horse... Many of these items are part of the HOWTO already. I propose the Linux Installfest HOWTO be used as a guide for discussion and installfests. Has everyone had a chance to look these over? Can we agree to use the HOWTO as a guideline? I believe these installfest items will be on the table for discussion tomorrow evening. Is that correct? If so, I will be attending but not exactly at 7pm. You can either fill me in or wait. I'm thinking 8ish at the latest. As far as I am concerned, I think one thing we can improve and hopefully agree upon is following the installfest HOWTO as a guideline. See you tomorrow!!! :) Marcia --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [1] [1] Links: -- [1] http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [1] --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [1] --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [1
Re: Installfest matters
The need to be a non-profit, and not being one, has bit us in the ass in the past. this should be done now as there is no pressing need - when the need occurs is not when you want to be starting this. There are some initial costs (fees) just becoming a state recognized organization, getting a federal non-profit status will take longer - The purpose would be education. A bank account is needed and finding a lawyer/accountant that is willing to support the group pro-bono (post a wanted add at ASU) are also needed. Don't skimp on infrastructure - you're starting a distributed group, support it. Start with a group of founders (10+) - each founder brings a C-note Start fresh - don't reverse into an established papertrail - don't play adopt a fubar (unless that fubar is a shell of a listed public company - even then it's a bad idea) Keep detailed records of who does what when, you are maintaining IP now. when talking to other non-profits, ask who they use - get a referral - take a meeting - make a list. think about who is good for the advisory board (ie not people you now know) pay them. involve more people than you think you will need - you will need more - tasks should be assigned to teams (not people) share everything - keep open books On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 10:29 AM, techli...@phpcoderusa.com wrote: On 2014-08-19 12:10, Lisa Kachold wrote: Well if it's that hard to maintain a non-profit how does the San Diego LUG, and the Portland and Seattle LUGS manage? How does Heatsync labs do it? It is EASY! I cannot answer that. We are a different group and maybe what is important to those groups is not important to PLUG. Have you contacted those goups to see what they think after the fact? Maybe it has something to do with being in AZ. AZ is more conservative and tends to like less oversight especially government oversight. By becoming a non-profit PLUG would become a government entity with all that comes with that. Please keep in mind it does not matter to me either way. I responded just to share. If the group wants to incorporate I am along for the ride. If doing so does not change PLUG in any significant way then it is not an issue for me. If, however incorporating causes problems, then it effects all of us. Why would we, who can read any HOWTO and do any technical thing, think we would need either a CPU or a lawyer? This is a legal issue and I'm sure it requires the ongoing expertise of the experts. Going it alone is risky. On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 8:40 AM, techli...@phpcoderusa.com wrote: Around 1999, while living in Tucson, I joined PLUG and the Tucson Free Unix Group (TFUG) lists. For years we went back and forth about formalizing TFUG. We had at least one meeting and there was lots of discussions on the list. After several years it was decided that no structure was the best structure. You bring up a couple of the benefits, what about the down side. Creating a non profit takes a lot of work. And once that status has been reached there is on going requirements that probably require the help of a lawyer and a CPA. Then there is the issue of ownership and control. This process could start out with good intentions and could turn evil real quick. Or maybe the maintainers quit. Who steps in to take over? What might their intent be? Structure can be good, however I think most of us just want to enjoy Linux and Linux related stuff and be free in doing so. I've been a member of this list for about 15 years and the people on this list have helped me immensely. I appreciate all the help you folks have given me and I'm sure I would not have gotten as far without your help. Keith On 2014-08-19 03:02, Lisa Kachold wrote: Great idea! I doubt that you will get them (him) to agree to follow anything that includes rules and structure to allow for success ( a large healthy LUG). As long as people are arguing minutia they will never notice all the secondary gain that keeps successful professionals uninvolved and uninterested. In 2002 I suggested Nonprofit status so people running the LUG functions and donating funds and equipment can write off reasonable tax exceptions. I wrote the whole process up in the discuss list which was the impetus for heatsink labs in Mesa to jump to grants and success through internships, etc. I told Hans I would do it all myself and he laughed in my face. Anyone who has lived in a comparably sized city knows what a healthy LUG is capable of simply by following direction already decreed in various guides. So, after the installfest conversation in PLUG IRC yesterday regarding installfest matters, I noticed that a lot of the items discussed are actually guidelines already presented in the Linux Installfest HOWTO. Many improvements to the PLUG Installfest can be made by following these guidelines. Why are we beating a dead horse... Many of these items are part
Re: Installfest matters
the help you folks have given me and I'm sure I would not have gotten as far without your help. Keith On 2014-08-19 03:02, Lisa Kachold wrote: Great idea! I doubt that you will get them (him) to agree to follow anything that includes rules and structure to allow for success ( a large healthy LUG). As long as people are arguing minutia they will never notice all the secondary gain that keeps successful professionals uninvolved and uninterested. In 2002 I suggested Nonprofit status so people running the LUG functions and donating funds and equipment can write off reasonable tax exceptions. I wrote the whole process up in the discuss list which was the impetus for heatsink labs in Mesa to jump to grants and success through internships, etc. I told Hans I would do it all myself and he laughed in my face. Anyone who has lived in a comparably sized city knows what a healthy LUG is capable of simply by following direction already decreed in various guides. So, after the installfest conversation in PLUG IRC yesterday regarding installfest matters, I noticed that a lot of the items discussed are actually guidelines already presented in the Linux Installfest HOWTO. Many improvements to the PLUG Installfest can be made by following these guidelines. Why are we beating a dead horse... Many of these items are part of the HOWTO already. I propose the Linux Installfest HOWTO be used as a guide for discussion and installfests. Has everyone had a chance to look these over? Can we agree to use the HOWTO as a guideline? I believe these installfest items will be on the table for discussion tomorrow evening. Is that correct? If so, I will be attending but not exactly at 7pm. You can either fill me in or wait. I'm thinking 8ish at the latest. As far as I am concerned, I think one thing we can improve and hopefully agree upon is following the installfest HOWTO as a guideline. See you tomorrow!!! :) Marcia --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [1] [1] [1] Links: -- [1] http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [1] [1] --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [1] [1] --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [1] [1] Links: -- [1] http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [1] --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [1] --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [1] Links: -- [1] http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Installfest matters
Your having people sign a waiver when the enter the installfest? I missed this comment that is embedded below : But I really DO NOT appreciate when the ones that don't pull the weight are trying to tell the ones who pull the wait what to do!! Back to lurking mode On 2014-08-19 14:08, Walter Mack wrote: A couple of comments: from the HOWTO: _ Roles: People involved in an installfest will assume one or more of the following roles coordinator contact for all other participants -- TODD host has the connection to the location --TODD receptionist * greets people as they come in, gives them a name tag and has them sign a waiver * can direct people to the restrooms, the nearest computer store * orders food and beverages tier 1 support people who are knowledgeable about Linux and are willing to share their knowledge and provide hands-on assistance to users -- TODD and others tier 2 support sets up and maintains network hardware and services (DNS, DHCP), mirrors of Linux distributions -- TODD ___ during installfest (everyting done by TODD) 3.1.3. ADMINISTRATION Linux distributions (distros) Make sure that you will have several copies of the latest versions of the major Linux distributions available on CD. To learn which distributions to make available, please do a little research on the Web sites listed in the appendix of this document. installfest server You may want to consider setting up a server for: * DNS * DHCP * mirrors of distributions You should provide multiple methods of accessing the distributions on the server: * FTP * rcp * HTTP * CD burning * NFS _ networking equipment someone will need to bring network switches and cables --TODD signage You should have a few signs posted to help people find their way around the location and provide other information. --TODD The people who run the fest need to be at the location at least one hour before the fest is to begin. They will need time to set up the network, installfest server, power system, signage, etc. --TODD Make sure that all areas are cleaned up because you may want to use the location again and you do not want to give the location owner a bad impression. Look for: items people have forgotten, items that people brought as give aways, drink cans and cups. --TODD and others (and I see a lot of people JUST STANDING AROUND HAVING AN OPINION). Does this look like a pattern? I think its easy to have pie in the sky ideas of how to do this better. I'm also convinced that there are plenty of things we can do better. But I really DO NOT appreciate when the ones that don't pull the weight are trying to tell the ones who pull the wait what to do!! I usually consider myself well tempered, but this discussion is getting to me. On 08/18/2014 10:16 PM, Kaoru Wilbur wrote: So, after the installfest conversation in PLUG IRC yesterday regarding installfest matters, I noticed that a lot of the items discussed are actually guidelines already presented in the Linux Installfest HOWTO. Many improvements to the PLUG Installfest can be made by following these guidelines. Why are we beating a dead horse... Many of these items are part of the HOWTO already. I propose the Linux Installfest HOWTO be used as a guide for discussion and installfests. Has everyone had a chance to look these over? Can we agree to use the HOWTO as a guideline? I believe these installfest items will be on the table for discussion tomorrow evening. Is that correct? If so, I will be attending but not exactly at 7pm. You can either fill me in or wait. I'm thinking 8ish at the latest. As far as I am concerned, I think one thing we can improve and hopefully agree upon is following the installfest HOWTO as a guideline. See you tomorrow!!! :) Marcia --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [1] Links: -- [1] http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Installfest matters
There are ongoing costs to being a non-profit. You do have to file taxes every year. I believe in the past that was not so if you were not having a certain amount of funds running through your accounts. Additionally, the board, or officers, are responsible for the accuracy of those taxes and the compliance of the organization which should not ever be overlooked. I would not say its a good thing or a bad thing. I would say it is a good thing if you have a bunch of corporate donors lined up to provide significant funding to some of the plug activities. If you are speaking of a $100 here or there (under $1k/year), I would say that it is a waste of time becoming a non-profit. You will have to have money to maintain the following... 1. CPA for tax season, 2. Lawyer (mostly for initial filings, but also for organization), 3. Commercial bank account (banks charge for those things). This is my 2 cents only. I was once on the board of a charitable organization that failed. It was a lot of work and I always had concerns about money mismanagement. Gilbert On 8/19/2014 12:24 PM, Ed wrote: The need to be a non-profit, and not being one, has bit us in the ass in the past. this should be done now as there is no pressing need - when the need occurs is not when you want to be starting this. There are some initial costs (fees) just becoming a state recognized organization, getting a federal non-profit status will take longer - The purpose would be education. A bank account is needed and finding a lawyer/accountant that is willing to support the group pro-bono (post a wanted add at ASU) are also needed. Don't skimp on infrastructure - you're starting a distributed group, support it. Start with a group of founders (10+) - each founder brings a C-note Start fresh - don't reverse into an established papertrail - don't play adopt a fubar (unless that fubar is a shell of a listed public company - even then it's a bad idea) Keep detailed records of who does what when, you are maintaining IP now. when talking to other non-profits, ask who they use - get a referral - take a meeting - make a list. think about who is good for the advisory board (ie not people you now know) pay them. involve more people than you think you will need - you will need more - tasks should be assigned to teams (not people) share everything - keep open books --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Installfest matters - I like it just as it is ;)
Plug is a wonderful group just the way it is, and the installfests are great. Please don't change a thing. It serves no useful purpose to criticize the way the current plug and installfests work. If some folks think a lug could be done differently and/or perhaps better as a non-profit (or in any other way), then they certainly can and should start a new lug and let us all have the option to join either or both (while it is still a free country). Joe --- There are ongoing costs to being a non-profit. I really do not appreciate those who don't pull the weight trying to tell the ones who pull the wait what to do. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Installfest matters - I like it just as it is ;)
+1 I like it too - I think it can work either way as Sys Admins, I think we can all appreciate how hard it is to get organized - and the many ways to do. On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 2:04 PM, j...@actionline.com wrote: Plug is a wonderful group just the way it is, and the installfests are great. Please don't change a thing. It serves no useful purpose to criticize the way the current plug and installfests work. If some folks think a lug could be done differently and/or perhaps better as a non-profit (or in any other way), then they certainly can and should start a new lug and let us all have the option to join either or both (while it is still a free country). Joe --- There are ongoing costs to being a non-profit. I really do not appreciate those who don't pull the weight trying to tell the ones who pull the wait what to do. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Installfest matters - I like it just as it is ;)
Plug is great for those that like PLUG! I would never discourage current members from attending. Others are seeking another option and will find it: outside PLUG. On Tuesday, August 19, 2014, Ed p...@0x1b.com wrote: +1 I like it too - I think it can work either way as Sys Admins, I think we can all appreciate how hard it is to get organized - and the many ways to do. On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 2:04 PM, j...@actionline.com javascript:; wrote: Plug is a wonderful group just the way it is, and the installfests are great. Please don't change a thing. It serves no useful purpose to criticize the way the current plug and installfests work. If some folks think a lug could be done differently and/or perhaps better as a non-profit (or in any other way), then they certainly can and should start a new lug and let us all have the option to join either or both (while it is still a free country). Joe --- There are ongoing costs to being a non-profit. I really do not appreciate those who don't pull the weight trying to tell the ones who pull the wait what to do. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org javascript:; To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org javascript:; To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Installfest matters - I like it just as it is ;)
Also, dialog with Plug about numerous installfest issues are already tabled and pursuing forward for those not aware! On Tuesday, August 19, 2014, Kaoru Wilbur m.kaoru.wil...@gmail.com wrote: Plug is great for those that like PLUG! I would never discourage current members from attending. Others are seeking another option and will find it: outside PLUG. On Tuesday, August 19, 2014, Ed p...@0x1b.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','p...@0x1b.com'); wrote: +1 I like it too - I think it can work either way as Sys Admins, I think we can all appreciate how hard it is to get organized - and the many ways to do. On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 2:04 PM, j...@actionline.com wrote: Plug is a wonderful group just the way it is, and the installfests are great. Please don't change a thing. It serves no useful purpose to criticize the way the current plug and installfests work. If some folks think a lug could be done differently and/or perhaps better as a non-profit (or in any other way), then they certainly can and should start a new lug and let us all have the option to join either or both (while it is still a free country). Joe --- There are ongoing costs to being a non-profit. I really do not appreciate those who don't pull the weight trying to tell the ones who pull the wait what to do. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Installfest matters
This is true, because I was not aware that there is a meeting. On 08/19/2014 02:51 PM, Kaoru Wilbur wrote: Ironically, he who wrote this was not in the installfest meeting Sunday... :) On Tuesday, August 19, 2014, techli...@phpcoderusa.com mailto:techli...@phpcoderusa.com wrote: Your having people sign a waiver when the enter the installfest? I missed this comment that is embedded below : But I really DO NOT appreciate when the ones that don't pull the weight are trying to tell the ones who pull the wait what to do!! Back to lurking mode On 2014-08-19 14:08, Walter Mack wrote: A couple of comments: from the HOWTO: _ Roles: People involved in an installfest will assume one or more of the following roles coordinator contact for all other participants -- TODD host has the connection to the location --TODD receptionist * greets people as they come in, gives them a name tag and has them sign a waiver * can direct people to the restrooms, the nearest computer store * orders food and beverages tier 1 support people who are knowledgeable about Linux and are willing to share their knowledge and provide hands-on assistance to users -- TODD and others tier 2 support sets up and maintains network hardware and services (DNS, DHCP), mirrors of Linux distributions -- TODD ___ during installfest (everyting done by TODD) 3.1.3. ADMINISTRATION Linux distributions (distros) Make sure that you will have several copies of the latest versions of the major Linux distributions available on CD. To learn which distributions to make available, please do a little research on the Web sites listed in the appendix of this document. installfest server You may want to consider setting up a server for: * DNS * DHCP * mirrors of distributions You should provide multiple methods of accessing the distributions on the server: * FTP * rcp * HTTP * CD burning * NFS _ networking equipment someone will need to bring network switches and cables --TODD signage You should have a few signs posted to help people find their way around the location and provide other information. --TODD The people who run the fest need to be at the location at least one hour before the fest is to begin. They will need time to set up the network, installfest server, power system, signage, etc. --TODD Make sure that all areas are cleaned up because you may want to use the location again and you do not want to give the location owner a bad impression. Look for: items people have forgotten, items that people brought as give aways, drink cans and cups. --TODD and others (and I see a lot of people JUST STANDING AROUND HAVING AN OPINION). Does this look like a pattern? I think its easy to have pie in the sky ideas of how to do this better. I'm also convinced that there are plenty of things we can do better. But I really DO NOT appreciate when the ones that don't pull the weight are trying to tell the ones who pull the wait what to do!! I usually consider myself well tempered, but this discussion is getting to me. On 08/18/2014 10:16 PM, Kaoru Wilbur wrote: So, after the installfest conversation in PLUG IRC yesterday regarding installfest matters, I noticed that a lot of the items discussed are actually guidelines already presented in the Linux Installfest HOWTO. Many improvements to the PLUG Installfest can be made by following these guidelines. Why are we beating a dead horse... Many of these items are part of the HOWTO already. I propose the Linux Installfest HOWTO be used as a guide for discussion and installfests. Has everyone had a chance to look these over? Can we agree to use the HOWTO as a guideline? I believe these installfest items will be on the table for discussion tomorrow evening. Is that correct? If so, I will be attending but not exactly at 7pm. You can either
Re: Installfest matters - I like it just as it is ;)
Isn't AZLOCO a non-profit? :-)~MIKE~(-: On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Kaoru Wilbur m.kaoru.wil...@gmail.com wrote: Also, dialog with Plug about numerous installfest issues are already tabled and pursuing forward for those not aware! On Tuesday, August 19, 2014, Kaoru Wilbur m.kaoru.wil...@gmail.com wrote: Plug is great for those that like PLUG! I would never discourage current members from attending. Others are seeking another option and will find it: outside PLUG. On Tuesday, August 19, 2014, Ed p...@0x1b.com wrote: +1 I like it too - I think it can work either way as Sys Admins, I think we can all appreciate how hard it is to get organized - and the many ways to do. On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 2:04 PM, j...@actionline.com wrote: Plug is a wonderful group just the way it is, and the installfests are great. Please don't change a thing. It serves no useful purpose to criticize the way the current plug and installfests work. If some folks think a lug could be done differently and/or perhaps better as a non-profit (or in any other way), then they certainly can and should start a new lug and let us all have the option to join either or both (while it is still a free country). Joe --- There are ongoing costs to being a non-profit. I really do not appreciate those who don't pull the weight trying to tell the ones who pull the wait what to do. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Installfest matters - I like it just as it is ;)
Not sure but that is a separate group from LUG. While Ubuntu or Canonical people might attend LUG meetings and be members of both groups, the LUG is really not usually affiliated with LoCo. I know it is a little confusing because the Phoenix group has let the LoCo be a part of most, if not all, activities. In fact, there seems to be more LoCo presence in most things because of it. est The installfest started as a PLUG event but was not maintained as such. There was no vote I am aware of, just some volunteers running the show. This is great when volunteers are non bias and have honest actions/goals. There were many problems way before now. Now, we are trying to remedy these. My suggestion is to agree to follow the Installfest HOWTO as our guide for installfests. Some issues came up that are already addressed in the HOWTO. Let's start there! On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 5:17 PM, Michael Havens bmi...@gmail.com wrote: Isn't AZLOCO a non-profit? :-)~MIKE~(-: On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Kaoru Wilbur m.kaoru.wil...@gmail.com wrote: Also, dialog with Plug about numerous installfest issues are already tabled and pursuing forward for those not aware! On Tuesday, August 19, 2014, Kaoru Wilbur m.kaoru.wil...@gmail.com wrote: Plug is great for those that like PLUG! I would never discourage current members from attending. Others are seeking another option and will find it: outside PLUG. On Tuesday, August 19, 2014, Ed p...@0x1b.com wrote: +1 I like it too - I think it can work either way as Sys Admins, I think we can all appreciate how hard it is to get organized - and the many ways to do. On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 2:04 PM, j...@actionline.com wrote: Plug is a wonderful group just the way it is, and the installfests are great. Please don't change a thing. It serves no useful purpose to criticize the way the current plug and installfests work. If some folks think a lug could be done differently and/or perhaps better as a non-profit (or in any other way), then they certainly can and should start a new lug and let us all have the option to join either or both (while it is still a free country). Joe --- There are ongoing costs to being a non-profit. I really do not appreciate those who don't pull the weight trying to tell the ones who pull the wait what to do. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Installfest matters
Just to add my two cents to the non-profit discussion. I set up a 501c3 corporation over 10 years ago for my daughters' club softball teams. I was the head coach and president of the corporation. I had a lawyer help with the application as probono workI downloaded the application from the IRS, filled it out, asked the attorney a few questions, he reviewed the final application, and the IRS approved it. I kept the books in gnucash and filed the annual tax forms myselfa few reports from gnucash and some electronic filings with the state and IRS. I had three teams and over $45K in annual donations, so it was not that small of an operation. It was easy. It is amazing what one can learn by just reading the IRS handouts. I did not need a CPA or attorney after the initial filing with the IRS. I also haven't been audited or sent to jail for my 501c3. I am also not a CPA or attorney...just an engineer with an MBA. I think there is a certain mystic about non-profit organizations that is just not true. It is not that big of a deal. You need three officers, just like any other AZ corporation to get started. I am not volunteering to set up the non-profit, nor do I have an opinion whether PLUG should be a non-profit or not. I am just saying that from my personal experience, it is not as scary and difficult to setup and run a non-profit as part of this discussion is making it out to be. Mark On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 1:53 PM, Gilbert T. Gutierrez, Jr. mailing-li...@phoenixinternet.net wrote: There are ongoing costs to being a non-profit. You do have to file taxes every year. I believe in the past that was not so if you were not having a certain amount of funds running through your accounts. Additionally, the board, or officers, are responsible for the accuracy of those taxes and the compliance of the organization which should not ever be overlooked. I would not say its a good thing or a bad thing. I would say it is a good thing if you have a bunch of corporate donors lined up to provide significant funding to some of the plug activities. If you are speaking of a $100 here or there (under $1k/year), I would say that it is a waste of time becoming a non-profit. You will have to have money to maintain the following... 1. CPA for tax season, 2. Lawyer (mostly for initial filings, but also for organization), 3. Commercial bank account (banks charge for those things). This is my 2 cents only. I was once on the board of a charitable organization that failed. It was a lot of work and I always had concerns about money mismanagement. Gilbert On 8/19/2014 12:24 PM, Ed wrote: The need to be a non-profit, and not being one, has bit us in the ass in the past. this should be done now as there is no pressing need - when the need occurs is not when you want to be starting this. There are some initial costs (fees) just becoming a state recognized organization, getting a federal non-profit status will take longer - The purpose would be education. A bank account is needed and finding a lawyer/accountant that is willing to support the group pro-bono (post a wanted add at ASU) are also needed. Don't skimp on infrastructure - you're starting a distributed group, support it. Start with a group of founders (10+) - each founder brings a C-note Start fresh - don't reverse into an established papertrail - don't play adopt a fubar (unless that fubar is a shell of a listed public company - even then it's a bad idea) Keep detailed records of who does what when, you are maintaining IP now. when talking to other non-profits, ask who they use - get a referral - take a meeting - make a list. think about who is good for the advisory board (ie not people you now know) pay them. involve more people than you think you will need - you will need more - tasks should be assigned to teams (not people) share everything - keep open books --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Installfest matters
Great info Mark. I am sure the new Maricopa Pinal GNU Linux users group will find this useful as they complete their charter. On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 6:35 PM, Mark Phillips m...@phillipsmarketing.biz wrote: Just to add my two cents to the non-profit discussion. I set up a 501c3 corporation over 10 years ago for my daughters' club softball teams. I was the head coach and president of the corporation. I had a lawyer help with the application as probono workI downloaded the application from the IRS, filled it out, asked the attorney a few questions, he reviewed the final application, and the IRS approved it. I kept the books in gnucash and filed the annual tax forms myselfa few reports from gnucash and some electronic filings with the state and IRS. I had three teams and over $45K in annual donations, so it was not that small of an operation. It was easy. It is amazing what one can learn by just reading the IRS handouts. I did not need a CPA or attorney after the initial filing with the IRS. I also haven't been audited or sent to jail for my 501c3. I am also not a CPA or attorney...just an engineer with an MBA. I think there is a certain mystic about non-profit organizations that is just not true. It is not that big of a deal. You need three officers, just like any other AZ corporation to get started. I am not volunteering to set up the non-profit, nor do I have an opinion whether PLUG should be a non-profit or not. I am just saying that from my personal experience, it is not as scary and difficult to setup and run a non-profit as part of this discussion is making it out to be. Mark On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 1:53 PM, Gilbert T. Gutierrez, Jr. mailing-li...@phoenixinternet.net wrote: There are ongoing costs to being a non-profit. You do have to file taxes every year. I believe in the past that was not so if you were not having a certain amount of funds running through your accounts. Additionally, the board, or officers, are responsible for the accuracy of those taxes and the compliance of the organization which should not ever be overlooked. I would not say its a good thing or a bad thing. I would say it is a good thing if you have a bunch of corporate donors lined up to provide significant funding to some of the plug activities. If you are speaking of a $100 here or there (under $1k/year), I would say that it is a waste of time becoming a non-profit. You will have to have money to maintain the following... 1. CPA for tax season, 2. Lawyer (mostly for initial filings, but also for organization), 3. Commercial bank account (banks charge for those things). This is my 2 cents only. I was once on the board of a charitable organization that failed. It was a lot of work and I always had concerns about money mismanagement. Gilbert On 8/19/2014 12:24 PM, Ed wrote: The need to be a non-profit, and not being one, has bit us in the ass in the past. this should be done now as there is no pressing need - when the need occurs is not when you want to be starting this. There are some initial costs (fees) just becoming a state recognized organization, getting a federal non-profit status will take longer - The purpose would be education. A bank account is needed and finding a lawyer/accountant that is willing to support the group pro-bono (post a wanted add at ASU) are also needed. Don't skimp on infrastructure - you're starting a distributed group, support it. Start with a group of founders (10+) - each founder brings a C-note Start fresh - don't reverse into an established papertrail - don't play adopt a fubar (unless that fubar is a shell of a listed public company - even then it's a bad idea) Keep detailed records of who does what when, you are maintaining IP now. when talking to other non-profits, ask who they use - get a referral - take a meeting - make a list. think about who is good for the advisory board (ie not people you now know) pay them. involve more people than you think you will need - you will need more - tasks should be assigned to teams (not people) share everything - keep open books --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Installfest matters
So, after the installfest conversation in PLUG IRC yesterday regarding installfest matters, I noticed that a lot of the items discussed are actually guidelines already presented in the Linux Installfest HOWTO. Many improvements to the PLUG Installfest can be made by following these guidelines. Why are we beating a dead horse... Many of these items are part of the HOWTO already. I propose the Linux Installfest HOWTO be used as a guide for discussion and installfests. Has everyone had a chance to look these over? Can we agree to use the HOWTO as a guideline? I believe these installfest items will be on the table for discussion tomorrow evening. Is that correct? If so, I will be attending but not exactly at 7pm. You can either fill me in or wait. I'm thinking 8ish at the latest. As far as I am concerned, I think one thing we can improve and hopefully agree upon is following the installfest HOWTO as a guideline. See you tomorrow!!! :) Marcia --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
