Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Inguz and 7.4
I think the plugin changes the stream to 24-bit, don't know if the frequency changes too. Update for me - My normal speakers are expensive Zu Definition 2s, wideband drivers supplemented at the very top and bottom with supertweeters and subwoofers. But most of the music is without crossovers, characterized by a huge, dynamic colorful presentation. The speakers that got me oriented toward the Definitions are still in the house - homebuilt single-driver, bass-reflex boxes per the Big Fun Box recipe on the TNT Audio website. The drivers are old hemp 8ers from Omega. These normally live in my garage. In the right (small) room, with sufficient room reinforcement they sound great, miniatures of my big 'uns. The wideband signature is there in spades but they do not have nearly the refinement. And, a peaky presence band reveals they're not cut from the same, refined cloth. I've had these speakers in my big system for a bit and really, really wanted to set them up with Inguz, which apparently doesn't work with .cue files. I kept my 'backup' set with .cue and .wav files but for 'play' I sliced up to individual files with Foobar, updated to the SBS 7.5 daily, and spent about an hour doing measurements with Room EQ Wizard and some pink noise played back through the SB (as opposed to REW). Net result? Holy friggin' cow! I'm not one for hyperbole but these $200 speakers are utterly phenomenal once the frequency response is smoothed out. My neighbor knows my main system better than anyone but me, I have him over once a month or so for long, late listening sessions. He came over Friday afternoon for a couple hours and he was blown away. The similarities with the big rig are undeniable. Of course, I couldn't EQ below their natural dropoff at 50 hz and they don't have the same supertweeter sparkle as their 55x more-expensive bretheren but I dialed in a slightly boosted 50 - 200 hz range (better than flat to most ears)and bass is most satisfying with most music now where it was nearly absent before. It is beyond sad to me that this software appears to be on the road to deprecation and I'll soon have to start choosing between staying current with my software and keeping the Inguz plugin which I'll reiterate is THE MOST important plugin of all to this audiophile. It makes your system sound better. What other plugin (or source for that matter) can do that? Anyhoo, wanted to report in and bump the topic up again. Crusaders unite! :) -- miklorsmith miklorsmith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4349 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68618 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Inguz and 7.4
I was able to get a running server going (7.3.4) - but no Inguz. I've tried every combination in the 'file types' menu and no luck. Has anybody been able to get any recent software build running with .cue sheets and Inguz? And to continue the 'other' discussion - I didn't interpret MickeyG's response as saying Logitech has any plans to adopt Inguz as a core component but he will assist any outside efforts as much as possible. This would mean somebody with skills (the inverse of me) would need to carry the torch. That might mean figuring out the state of the current Inguz build and explaining to MickeyG how easy it would be for Logitech to adopt it. Just one idea. Any other? -- miklorsmith miklorsmith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4349 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68618 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Inguz and 7.4
All my 7.4.x efforts have failed me. There's a bug (filed) with .cue sheets that seems to plague all the versions. I'll be downgrading for the time being. My recollection is Inguz had a hard time with .cue sheets before so I'm not holding my breath that I'll get it back but at least I'll have a server that works. I sent the following message to 'MickeyG' last week, not sure if he's the right dude or what (sorry for length): I'm an audiophile guy, have been for 20 years. I was a reviewer for 6moons for a while and have a fair bit of experience with equalizers and DSP, having owned three different TacT units and Inguz for quite a while through 3 Squeezebox Classics. While the Squeezebox is arguably more geared toward the 'consumer' market over hardcore audiophiles (more for price than anything else), it can be featured in a Very Serious setup. My primary rig would retail for over $25k and my (modded) SB to an outboard DAC is my best possible digital link. The Transporter is unabashedly audiophile-oriented. While us sound-dorks will yell all over that our gear is so good we don't need tone controls, the simple truth is we do. For a ton of reasons, primarily room/speaker interactions, speaker/amp pairings, and fundamental speaker issues, in-room response is almost always terrible. Of course, most of us don't know that, but it doesn't mean it's not a problem. We don't know it mostly because our stereos don't permit any fiddling. If we have controls, we'll play. If we play we'll realize there's more there than what we're getting, and if we're serious we'll actually measure the room to see where the problems are. If we have tools to fix them, the end-result can be really, completely unbelievable. For a few years, Inguz has provided a very nice though quirky feature-set to dial in one's system. However, support for SB Server 7.4.x has gone dry and is set to expire in January. At present, the code needs to be tweaked to get it to run at all, and even then it causes problems with .cue files and maybe more. Most of my collection is set up with single music files + .cue sheets. There are quite a few people that are concerned about Inguz expiring and the loss of support. This would seem a great time for Logitech to pick up the EQ torch and integrate it as a core feature of the software. The current options for EQ in a system are not good. I ultimately went away from the *very expensive* TacT units because their digital processing engine drained life from the music. Analog EQs are not flexible enough and add a tremendous amount of analog circuitry to the chain, also a big no-no. There are software packages that can do this work, but they too cost big dollars and also can't pair with SB Server. Having the source itself be the EQ is freaking brilliant, it's manipulating the file in its native habitat (the server) and the results don't impart an artificial character, it's all the good with none of the bad. In my opinion, and some others I've talked to, this feature is the single-most important 'extra' the software includes. I understand all the cool gizmos and people do like those, but this one actually makes your system sound better, a lot lot lot better. From Logitech's standpoint, the potential sales advantage to the audiophile customer is undeniable. In my mind, it's the last dagger in the CD player's coffin. Even the grouchy old guys will get it, since they remember the days when hi-fi kit included tone controls. But, these are a thousand times better. Sorry for the long message, thanks for staying with me. I understand this may be a significant undertaking, who knows, maybe Hugh is done updating the software and would happily turn over what he has to you. I can't possibly overstate how important this feature is to a good number of your serious sound customers. Thanks a lot, Mike Smith, aka Miklorsmith We need to get a concerted effort going to try to get Logitech to take this on . . . -- miklorsmith miklorsmith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4349 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68618 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Inguz and 7.4
Hey guys! I've been in a bit of a washing machine - what I thought was an Inguz/cue/7.4.x problem I now think is a cue/7.4 problem. Oh, except tonight I downgraded to 7.3.4 and . . . still not working right. I'm all focused now on just getting the damned software operational - I've regressed. Before this problem, I did have Inguz working with 7.4, using the tweaks mentioned earlier in this thread. Some others got it working too. Last week I reported a bug with .cue/Inguz (maybe misplaced on cause) and got the answer back that the bug reporting system doesn't apply to third party plugins. I now have another pending on the cue problem, but that's a different topic. Is MickeyG the right person to engage with this question? Should we start a petition that people can sign? Sorry I don't know the protocol. -- miklorsmith miklorsmith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4349 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68618 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Inguz and 7.4
Now that Inguz is running, my .wav and .flac + .cue files are all bugged out. I remember something about this when I used to use it way back in the 6.x days but surely this is another highlight why Logitech should take on this function themselves. Has this been raised to Logitech? If nobody's done it, is there a logical person to lead the effort? If not, I might do it myself. -- miklorsmith miklorsmith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4349 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68618 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Inguz and 7.4
I just filed a bug report on the .cue + Inguz problem, along with a request that Logitech take over the EQ function. Wish me (us) luck! -- miklorsmith miklorsmith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4349 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68618 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Inguz and 7.4
That's possible, for sure. I barely expect Logitech to care too much about problems between .cue users and 'some' third party plugin BUT I'm also using that to highlight the need for taking on EQ themselves. It really is a MAJOR selling point, hopefully they'll see that. -- miklorsmith miklorsmith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4349 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68618 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Inguz and 7.4
Thanks! I got it. I haven't been using Inguz for quite a while and spaced out the DSP plugin portion. I thought I didn't need it since I'm not using the room correction feature. It's really unbelievable how much better the music shines through when the system and room modes are smoothed out. Now I have to find a good measurement setup that can run through the SB . . . I have Room EQ Wizard and use it with my big setup, but there the sweep tones go through the same hardware and any changes show up in the sweeps, with this setup they don't. 80% there though, thanks again! Now we just have to figure out how to keep it from expiring. :) Mike -- miklorsmith miklorsmith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4349 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68618 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Inguz and 7.4
I guess I need to downgrade to 7.3 or reconfigure the main system that needs Inguz. I searched but couldn't find a download site for older versions. Any help? Thanks again -- miklorsmith miklorsmith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4349 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68618 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Inguz and 7.4
Everything appears normal on the SB screen - menu shows up, allows access to all functions but none does anything. I've kept the balance skewed all the way to one speaker during experimentation just in case something worked. I just checked that and also fiddled with the EQ - nothing. Thanks for the help everyone. It definitely helps not to suffer alone but the situation is a real downer. -- miklorsmith miklorsmith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4349 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68618 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Inguz and 7.4
Here's a weird one - Trying different combinations of revisions listed in this thread, I've gotten the log file to quit reporting errors. I can run the web settings which still yields the Silverlight error message, but the error string below doesn't come up. The server can't see the error any more? Man, this is frustrating. I'd quit struggling with it except that some folks have been able to get it working. -- miklorsmith miklorsmith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4349 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68618 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Inguz and 7.4
Made the changes, doesn't work for me on my XP machine. Big bummer. -- miklorsmith miklorsmith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4349 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68618 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Inguz and 7.4
I installed Silverlight, no change. I uninstalled SB Server and reinstalled (on 7.2 now), still no change. Error message same as above, says Silverlight can't initialize after 15 minutes of thinking. -- miklorsmith miklorsmith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4349 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68618 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Inguz and 7.4
Sweet, I'll give that one a go tonight. By my comments I do not mean to denigrate Hugh for his tireless and excellent work, the work of members looking to get the functionality back, nor Logitech for continuing to support open-source architecture which benefits us all. I only mean now seems like a good time to lift Hugh off the hook. And, I believe it's true he builds expiration dates into the Inguz builds. If this is the case, we have a limited time to use the software, regardless of staying on an older platform or finding a good workaround. On the subject of moving frequency centers, I find this an extremely important function. Early in the Inguz development I chatted quite a bit with Hugh and even had him over to my house for a listen (very nice guy btw). At the time, the variable-center function wasn't in the software. Coming from the TacT preamp units and seeing huge benefit, I implored him to upgrade the EQ function from a 'graphic' to 'parametric'. The reason is that a graphic EQ allows fiddling - bump here, cut there, stop when it sounds 'good'. While this is a useful function and far better than nothing, it doesn't allow corrections to be applied exactly where they are needed. When measuring a room there are invariably bumps to be trimmed and holes to be filled (within reason). Without a parametric EQ, 'frequency centers' cannot be correlated with places of need. The two elements of a true parametric EQ not present in a graphic EQ are 1) movable frequency centers, and 2) Q, or width of the band in terms of octaves. Hugh agreed. Applying the idea, he found moving frequency centers was relatively easy and he fairly quickly applied that to the software. However, varying width of the band proved more difficult and that part never made it to the software. Nevertheless, his solution enables the measured approach of measuring the room, applying corrections, listening, measuring, applying, etc. The end result is an intentional compromise of measured flatness and audible preference. The importance of this function to, well, everyone's better sound cannot be overstated. -- miklorsmith miklorsmith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4349 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68618 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Inguz and 7.4
I guess at this point we should assume Hugh is done updating Inguz to the umpteen software upgrades? If this is so, we have a few options - downgrade to 7.3 forever, find new benefactor(s)to figure out how Inguz works now and carry the torch with future upgrades, or lobby Logitech to incorporate some/all of Inguz' function as an official component. My druthers would be the last option - convince Logitech of the merits of being at the front of this crucial function. To keep it simple, we could start with the EQ only, then see if integrating DRC is within reach. I've done a lot of DRC, having owned three different models of TacT preamps over a couple of years. My humble opinion is that most of what can be done with DRC is achievable with a parametric EQ and simple measurement tools. This solution equals way less signal manipulation and processing power. I'm not advocating against DRC, just saying Logitech might be more amenable to bite-sized chunks instead of a large undertaking. I'd really like to keep this topic alive and to get as many people behind it as possible. Thoughts? -- miklorsmith miklorsmith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4349 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68618 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Inguz and 7.4
I have three SB systems, the biggun, one in the livingroom, and one in the garage. The big system has a separate bass circuit from the preamp professional EQ stereo Pro amps subs. It really represents The Ideal, as the mains are kept free of any fiddling and the sub frequencies, say 70 hz down, are fully in control. It's amazing how much getting the bass 'right' helps the rest of the spectrum. Tip of the day - if you're using subs, do you know where your phase is? It doesn't take much overlap/phase misalignment to Kill big chunks of bass in a room. Like 25 db kill. Get it right and all the speakers work way less with much-reduced distortion. It's quite shocking to me that many subs only supply a +/- control, but that's another topic . . . In this setup, I likely won't be using Inguz, as I have a complete hardware/software suite. However, my garage system includes a pair of handbuilt single-driver, bass-reflex boxes. The speakers really would like a smaller room and better corner reinforcement. But the garage is as big as it is and corners aren't available. The setup actually sounds really good, way better than a garage should (and better than my livingroom setup). However, it needs a little massaging. It does make bass, but has the dreaded single-driver presence-band lift. So the bass is recessed. Using my .mp3 player as source and goosing its EQ, which is way less sophisticated than Inguz', it comes into balance and sounds killer. If I could instead stream my lossless files and really tailor the speaks to that room, I'd be in tinkerer's heaven. As it is now, the .mp3 player sounds better than the SB, even with worse music files just because of the response curve. The livingroom setup is a little thumpy in the bass, obvious port lift. I'd probably just measure the exact frequency, move Inguz frequency center to that location, and drop about 3 db - easy fix. Additional hardware can do the job, but can also introduce other problems, especially transparency if used above the bass range. And that's my core point, please please please can Logitech just incorporate this as a feature? It seems only a matter of time before Hugh gets sick of following the never-ending software changes (which are fantastic btw) and gives up. Maybe he already has. From a hardcore audiophile perspective, this is probably THE MOST IMPORTANT PLUGIN OF ALL. Period, bar none. It's such as huge advantage over the competition. Anyway, sorry for the ramble. -- miklorsmith miklorsmith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4349 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68618 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Inguz and 7.4
I'll give it a shot tonight, thanks! -- miklorsmith miklorsmith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4349 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68618 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Inguz and 7.4
Same result - functions appear functional but no actual effect. -- miklorsmith miklorsmith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4349 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68618 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Inguz and 7.4
I'm a code dummy, completely. Any detailed instructions on how to open and what to modify would be VERY MUCH appreciated. This function really should be integral to the software. It's completely baffling that it still isn't. -- miklorsmith miklorsmith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4349 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68618 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Inguz and 7.4
I entered everything exactly. Well, the paragraph (or whatever) formatting looks different but the text is identical. I do get the restart server message in the Settings menu but it also shows up right after the EQ menu on the unit itself and doesn't allow access to any functions. Dammit! But thanks. :) -- miklorsmith miklorsmith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4349 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68618 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Inguz and 7.4
Is Inguz working for everyone else? Is nobody using it? I'm surprised by the lack of interest in this topic. If it's working for some of you, any ideas why it would function perfectly at the remote but have no effect on the sound? -- miklorsmith miklorsmith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4349 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68618 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Inguz and 7.4
I'm on 7.4.1, everything seems to be running great regarding general function. But, trying to run just the EQ from Inguz, I'm stymied. I installed the plugin, then read here the way to do it is through the secondary download function in the plugin section of the Settings menu in the SB Server Web Ccntrol. Inguz doesn't have an easy address to include - the 'Download' leads to a zip file/destination screen that doesn't seem to fit here so I didn't try to stick it there. Nonetheless, the EQ plugin appears in all the places it needs to and appears in the menu. All the functions seem to work perfectly through the remote BUT - no effect. None of the settings DO anything. Balance can be all the way to one speaker but both play equally no matter how many times I try restarting. Anyone else have this experience? It seems like it should be something really simple but I'm drawing blanks. Thanks in advance, Mike -- miklorsmith miklorsmith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4349 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68618 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
