Re(2): Identifying the problems that 'smart' folders may solve part 1
[Andy Fragen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb am 24.3.2006 um 15:17 Uhr:] >But are they really different things. Yes, I think so. >They're both folders and as such >should have all the same features and characteristics of folders. No. Smart folders and real folders have only the name in common. Next thing will be that people want to put messages physically in smart folders because they are folders as the others. That is not the case, is it? >The >only real difference is what they display. And why. And that smart folders are more like a collection of aliases while real folders (at least in the finder) are a collection of files. -- http://www.subhash.at
Re(2): receiving Japanese
>Good evening Olson-san, >I set my encoding for unknown messages to Japanese (shift-jis) I just received responses from two people and I can read them!! ???I?I
Re: Identifying the problems that 'smart' folders may solve part 1
Mikael Byström said: >I don't see there is much more point to discuss placement of >imaginary folders, unless can be further detailed in any useful fashion. Some words disappeared here. I meant: I don't see there is much more point to discuss placement of imaginary folders, unless thoughts that can potentially unify reduction of clutter/ folders ideas and freedom of placement ideas can be further detailed in any useful fashion. PM 5.2.3 Swedish | OS X 10.3.9 | Powerbook G4/400Mhz | 1GB RAM | 30GB HD
Re: Identifying the problems that 'smart' folders may solve part 1
Andy Fragen said: >Concrete folders displays >messages that have been "physically" put in them, whereas smart folders >display messages based upon some search algorithm. That's what different about them, yes (though I'd be tempted to say "logically"). Would you really say that search results windows are the same thing like a folder? Following your logic, why then not put these search results of today in the browser, putting the real concrete folders down. As you already said 'smart folders' are search results, only with the search criteria retained. This is what you want? Following this logic even further: It could also be argued that Mail filters belong next to the folders they affect so we could keep them in the browser as well. You can easily see that it could be really crowded, which is why I feel it shouldn't be default. I can think of a number of reasons why it's bad UI-design to put 'smart' folders next to real ones and I'm sure if that is case in Mail, it has been discussed already. Actually, I think the mailbox-oriented ways of Mail is pretty stupid and is one reason why I didn't pick it up. I don't want PowerMail to become more "Mail-like" just because 'smart folders' is a cool concept. But for now, I don't see there is much more point to discuss placement of imaginary folders, unless can be further detailed in any useful fashion. It should be noted my expressed opinions on the subject are not necessarily based on my personal preference. I think the parts of this discussion on how people work with their email was most interesting. Thanks! I'd like to see more sharing their ways of interacting with their email, please. PM 5.2.3 Swedish | OS X 10.3.9 | Powerbook G4/400Mhz | 1GB RAM | 30GB HD
Re: receiving Japanese
こんいちは, you just open the message and go to message->encoding and try to find out the right one. Somtimes some mail-servers add a wrong encoding, because the mail client doesn't write the header correctly. Usually the mail clients are making the problem, not the server. All the best Matthias --- Admilon Consulting GmbH http://www.admilon.com iChat/AIM: MatKoyasan Tel. +81-736-56-3905 --- Am/On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:27:46 +0900 schrieb/wrote Shell Olson: >Ah, Matthias-san, I see you live in Japan! >I've just changed to shift-jis and have e-mailed a couple of friends to >see if they'll try one more time, to find out if it works. >Anyway, you're saying that the problem is not originating with my Mac or >with PM, but possibly their mail-server? >If the shift-jis doesn't work for someone, and I get a nonsense message, >do I manually do Mail-Text Encoding just with the message selected in >the in-tray, or do I highlight the text? or something else? >Thanks very much >Shell > >>Good evening Olson-san, >> >>well, the problem is the encoding of those messages. Some Japanese mail- >>clients don't send an encoding, probably those programmers think >>Japanese is the only and one language in the world you know that >>mindset, I guess ;-) >> >>I set my encoding for unknown messages to Japanese (shift-jis). >>With some messages you have to set the encoding manualy (under message >>text encoding). >> >>All the best >> >>Matthias >> >>--- >>Admilon Consulting GmbH >>http://www.admilon.com >>iChat/AIM: MatKoyasan >>Tel. +81-736-56-3905 >>--- >> >>Am/On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 21:16:11 +0900 schrieb/wrote Shell Olson: >> >>>I started using Powermail about 6 years ago simply because I wanted to >>>be able to read and write in Japanese, but have my menus still in >>>English. I couldn't find any other e-mail program that would do that. >>>Japanese software would make things very difficult for me, and probably >>>wouldn't run on my US operating system, anyway. >>>Still, PM it doesn't work for everyone I'd like to communicate with. >>>There are some people from whom I receive seemingly random characters >>>(I'm sure they aren't, but whatever they are seems irrelevant). Maybe >>>Hiro can help me? Or does this problem occur with other languages, too? >>>Certainly one source is users of hotmail.com but it is not limited to them. >>>It is really frustrating not to be able to communicate with some people >>>via e-mail if they aren't comfortable with English. Every time I >>>upgrade I keep hoping that it will take care of the problem, but it >>>never does. >>>If I change something--such as my character set for "undefined incoming >>>characters"--could that take care of it? I have tried occasionally, but >>>it never seems to help. >>> >>>If you know something about this, and can help me in relatively simple >>>language (my master's in computing pre-dates the Internet), or can >>>direct me to somewhere else where I can find help, I'd be incredibly >>>grateful. I hate bringing in a question on this basic level, but there >>>seems to be no other way to get support--the down side of using PM for me. >>> >>>Thanks, >>>Shell in Tokyo >>>iBook G3 OS X 10.4.5 PowerMail 5.2.3 >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > >
Re: receiving Japanese
Hiro-San, I never had that expiriance. But my wife had some strange (unreadeable) mails in html. But it looks like being fixed since v5.x At least she didn't complain anymore. All the best Matthias --- Admilon Consulting GmbH http://www.admilon.com iChat/AIM: MatKoyasan Tel. +81-736-56-3905 --- Am/On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 11:10:00 -0500 schrieb/wrote A-NO-NE Music: >Shell Olson / 2006/03/24 / 07:16 AM wrote: > >>There are some people from whom I receive seemingly random characters >>(I'm sure they aren't, but whatever they are seems irrelevant). Maybe >>Hiro can help me? Or does this problem occur with other languages, too? >>Certainly one source is users of hotmail.com but it is not limited to them. > >While I never experienced this problem with PM, I have suffered the same >problem on various Windows emailers such as Outlook and Lotus Notes long >years ago. However, the issue isn't encoding. When you say random >characters, I assume you can see correct sentence partially and it >starts to corrupt in a middle of the sentence, right? > >This is due to "Gomi" byte got within the multiple byte sequence, might >be caused by (a) the sender's mailer such as one running on Windows >English with Japanese Locale (Windows require so called Far East Package >in order to have the true Japanese OS dlls, and it ain't cheap), or (b) >sender's server gateway that drops the control byte. > >Here is an interesting side notes. Berklee has huge percentage of Asian >students. They use their own email interface for students. When you >receive Japanese email, and setting encode correctly, you can view most >of the sentences but not all. However, when you hit Reply, all will be >displayed correctly in the quote section. I have no idea why it is this way. > >Back to the topic, when I had this problem on Windows, I had to ask the >sender to resend in HTML format (yeah, so much of anti-HTML!). > >I actually don't know how much PM is contributing to this problem since >I have not seen it with PM, but now I am very curious if you could >receive the same message with Mail.app to compare. > >-- > >- Hiro > >[PROTECTED] ><[PROTECTED]> <[PROTECTED]> > > > >
Re(2): receiving Japanese
>Shell Olson / 2006/03/24 / 07:16 AM wrote: > >>There are some people from whom I receive seemingly random characters >>(I'm sure they aren't, but whatever they are seems irrelevant). Maybe >>Hiro can help me? Or does this problem occur with other languages, too? >>Certainly one source is users of hotmail.com but it is not limited to them. > >While I never experienced this problem with PM, I have suffered the same >problem on various Windows emailers such as Outlook and Lotus Notes long >years ago. However, the issue isn't encoding. When you say random >characters, I assume you can see correct sentence partially and it >starts to corrupt in a middle of the sentence, right? No, actually. The entire message is "gomi", except if there are any English characters. (or perhaps non-Japanese characters, but I am only using the two languages) >This is due to "Gomi" byte got within the multiple byte sequence, might >be caused by (a) the sender's mailer such as one running on Windows >English with Japanese Locale (Windows require so called Far East Package >in order to have the true Japanese OS dlls, and it ain't cheap), or (b) >sender's server gateway that drops the control byte. > >Here is an interesting side notes. Berklee has huge percentage of Asian >students. They use their own email interface for students. When you >receive Japanese email, and setting encode correctly, you can view most >of the sentences but not all. However, when you hit Reply, all will be >displayed correctly in the quote section. I have no idea why it is this way. Yes! I have had this experience. Usually I wrote to the person with a new message, but once I hit Reply to tell them I couldn't read it, and it was suddenly just fine. But this is not the problem I am having in general. >Back to the topic, when I had this problem on Windows, I had to ask the >sender to resend in HTML format (yeah, so much of anti-HTML!). This may not work for me since the people I'm usually communicating with know less about computers than I do, but I will ask them. >I actually don't know how much PM is contributing to this problem since >I have not seen it with PM, but now I am very curious if you could >receive the same message with Mail.app to compare. I have to pay for that, right? I actually don't use any mail except PM and some awful free group mail program that we use for the PCs at work. It doesn't handle Japanese well at all, but occasionally the Reply trick works with it. More often the whole Japanese message jumps into the subject line and one can't open it at all. I think they're going to change programs soon... When I check my mail from work, from a PC, just going to my mail server, it is the same problem, so it certainly isn't a problem created by PM. I had just always hoped PM could fix it, since it "spoke" Japanese. But I'll hope changing to shift-jis works, although I suspect I may have tried that a couple of years ago... Thanks, Shell >-- > >- Hiro > >[PROTECTED] ><[PROTECTED]> <[PROTECTED]>
Re(2): receiving Japanese
Ah, Matthias-san, I see you live in Japan! I've just changed to shift-jis and have e-mailed a couple of friends to see if they'll try one more time, to find out if it works. Anyway, you're saying that the problem is not originating with my Mac or with PM, but possibly their mail-server? If the shift-jis doesn't work for someone, and I get a nonsense message, do I manually do Mail-Text Encoding just with the message selected in the in-tray, or do I highlight the text? or something else? Thanks very much Shell >Good evening Olson-san, > >well, the problem is the encoding of those messages. Some Japanese mail- >clients don't send an encoding, probably those programmers think >Japanese is the only and one language in the world you know that >mindset, I guess ;-) > >I set my encoding for unknown messages to Japanese (shift-jis). >With some messages you have to set the encoding manualy (under message >text encoding). > >All the best > >Matthias > >--- >Admilon Consulting GmbH >http://www.admilon.com >iChat/AIM: MatKoyasan >Tel. +81-736-56-3905 >--- > >Am/On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 21:16:11 +0900 schrieb/wrote Shell Olson: > >>I started using Powermail about 6 years ago simply because I wanted to >>be able to read and write in Japanese, but have my menus still in >>English. I couldn't find any other e-mail program that would do that. >>Japanese software would make things very difficult for me, and probably >>wouldn't run on my US operating system, anyway. >>Still, PM it doesn't work for everyone I'd like to communicate with. >>There are some people from whom I receive seemingly random characters >>(I'm sure they aren't, but whatever they are seems irrelevant). Maybe >>Hiro can help me? Or does this problem occur with other languages, too? >>Certainly one source is users of hotmail.com but it is not limited to them. >>It is really frustrating not to be able to communicate with some people >>via e-mail if they aren't comfortable with English. Every time I >>upgrade I keep hoping that it will take care of the problem, but it >>never does. >>If I change something--such as my character set for "undefined incoming >>characters"--could that take care of it? I have tried occasionally, but >>it never seems to help. >> >>If you know something about this, and can help me in relatively simple >>language (my master's in computing pre-dates the Internet), or can >>direct me to somewhere else where I can find help, I'd be incredibly >>grateful. I hate bringing in a question on this basic level, but there >>seems to be no other way to get support--the down side of using PM for me. >> >>Thanks, >>Shell in Tokyo >>iBook G3 OS X 10.4.5 PowerMail 5.2.3 >> >> >> > > >
Re: Identifying the problems that 'smart' folders may solve part 1
On Fri, Mar 24, 2006, Mikael Byström said: >Andy Fragen said: > >>Why couldn't smart folders simply integrate with real folders and be >>alpha sorted? Then all they really need is a different icon so the user >>has some indication that they're different. I also see some sort of plus/ >>minus/gear menu at the bottom of the folder panel. > >Well, I already gave reasons why and meant that I feel that if these >possibilities are added to PowerMail at some point, 'smart' and >'concrete' folder integration side by side (or row by row) shouldn't be >default, simply because Smart Folders and Concrete Folders are two >different things. >It should be possible though to arrange folders in any way one would like. But are they really different things. They're both folders and as such should have all the same features and characteristics of folders. The only real difference is what they display. Concrete folders displays messages that have been "physically" put in them, whereas smart folders display messages based upon some search algorithm. -- Andy Fragen
Re: MacBook Pro, PM 5.2.3 "Rebuilding Sort Indices"
listes said: >I would agree, just deleting the index and rebuilding it may be better >:-) Well, after rebuilding the index on several occasions, I found it didn't take significantly less time than building it from scratch after deletion and rebuilding often didn't succeed too. Rebuilding twice does of course take longer time. While building from scratch may take a little longer in theory it does work, for me at least, every time. PM 5.2.3 Swedish | OS X 10.3.9 | Powerbook G4/400Mhz | 1GB RAM | 30GB HD
Re: Identifying the problems that 'smart' folders may solve part 1
Andy Fragen said: >Why couldn't smart folders simply integrate with real folders and be >alpha sorted? Then all they really need is a different icon so the user >has some indication that they're different. I also see some sort of plus/ >minus/gear menu at the bottom of the folder panel. Well, I already gave reasons why and meant that I feel that if these possibilities are added to PowerMail at some point, 'smart' and 'concrete' folder integration side by side (or row by row) shouldn't be default, simply because Smart Folders and Concrete Folders are two different things. It should be possible though to arrange folders in any way one would like. PM 5.2.3 Swedish | OS X 10.3.9 | Powerbook G4/400Mhz | 1GB RAM | 30GB HD
Re: Identifying the problems that 'smart' folders may solve part 1
On Fri, Mar 24, 2006, Mikael Byström said: >Andy Fragen said: > >>I'm not really sure why a smart folder, which should have a different >>icon, need be any different than a regular folder in function. In other >>words, double click it and it opens in another window. Is that somehow >>not similar to incorporating smart folders into the RMB? > >Not necessarily. Things could be made more useful. For starters can smart >folders not be something more than "saved self-updating user settable >searches"? They could be anything that's possible via code. ;-) But, I think that the 'usual' expectation is that smart folders are continually updated searches. >Smart folders would need to be in a different *default* place not to >confuse some people, not necessarily newcomers. >The confusion would be over whether what to expect to find in these >folders. A certain amount of people would - even if they set them up >themselves - expect that things they'd seen there would always be there, >even if the settings didn't support it. Because that is how people expect >folders to work. Also, most likely people would have a few to many 'smart >folders' and the folder listing would grow with these in addition and >move the "real" folders further down (if smart folders defaulted in the >upper region). Why couldn't smart folders simply integrate with real folders and be alpha sorted? Then all they really need is a different icon so the user has some indication that they're different. I also see some sort of plus/ minus/gear menu at the bottom of the folder panel. >One example that the GUI can confuse, also myself, because of reasonable >expectations on the GUI and what is shown, is that I had initial problems >the first weeks of use (in 2003 with v. 3) with having no indication of >when I had "Show Only Unread" active and thought for days that the >messages disappeared. This is not a unique experience. This bit a lot of people. >As another example I have mentioned the fact that the search dialog >doesn't indicate what kind of "words" that are not possible to find in >the index, something that would still confuse myself had I not been on >this list. I know many are not confused being unaware of the limitations >and when they come into play to affect the results they see (Note that >I'm not saying that searches have a big problem. It only affect certain >searches, not all, but the search dialog doesn't indicate the limitations >with indexed searching) Agreed. >One elegant solution would probably be a search tab, that would contain >user saved searches as well as the Recent Mail Folder (user tweakable I >imagine and with the same shortcut as usual). > From there the user could drag the virtual smart folders to the regular >folder listing, perhaps only as aliases. So having the Recent Messages >and other 'smart' folders should be able to put in the folder view, but I >think it's vital that this placement *isn't the default*. That's an interesting idea. >"Tabs" do have momentum to a much larger degree than 'smart folders' and >would keep as a *default* the 'virtual folders' (built-in and user- >definable) *separate* from the actual email message catalog, which the >browser is now displaying. I agree that tabs do have a certain amount of momentum and I believe that if they were implemented and the RMW was a constant tab presence more people would likely use it. >Don't you people that use the RMW and think it should be in the folder >view also think that search result windows in separate windows is an >abomination too? I think it would be neat and useful to store searches of >all kinds under a specific tab, rather than all over the place. It's a >more organized solution. Personally I don't suffer much having search >results windows all over the place though. > >Another solution would be folding the smart folders, like in the Finder >list view, but I think that's not as good solution. I'm not getting into >why here. Not sure what you mean by folding, nor why it's not a good solution. Since this discussion is theoretical we should have the benefit of what we think is good as well as what we think is bad. >I'm sure, if the usability goals can be defined of what users need and if >CTM agrees those features should be implemented at some point, that even >better solutions can be found. Agreed. > I don't think Apples iApp solutions (in >the interface & functionality areas discussed) are totally on the spot >nor are they unique and seldom firsts too. They do give user expectations >though, but even if the workings of specific features and details are >used in another developed app, it's not necessarily wrong to further >improve things. If nothing else, to avoid getting sued on copyright >infringement. I'm not sure there's any copyright infringement as most of these interfaces have been put into many other programs, but doing so might necessitate rewriting PM in Cocoa to take full advantage of these methods. -- Andy Fragen
Re: daylite integration
Bob Moody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > use squirrel mail as a way of not downloading stuff I don't want. > I look into my 2 email accounts (different isp's) and "select all" > then I uncheck the ones I want, then I hit the delete button. That > way I get rid of 80% of what is in my inbox on the server without > ever downloading it. If you could download the first 3-4K of each message without expanding your bandwidth too much, all this filtering process could be automated by SpamSieve. I have the experience of using it daily for years now: - Powermail downloads only 3K of each mail - SpamSieve filters 99% of the spams (for the recent years it keeps statistics: 62000 spams, 4000 good messages) - with a single macro I then delete all identified spams "titles" on the mac - then I reconnect Powermail: as it is set to "delete on server what has been locally deleted", all spams are erased on the server, without downloading anything more - generally all is finished here, as most of my mails are less than 3K - if some good ones are more than 3 K, I specifically download them entierely (again with a single local menu command) with Powermail. (This has the additional advantage that you can leave on the server a really big good email if your download bandwidth is temporarily exceeded) I agree, this may look complicated, but once set it flies, and above all, the manual process of filtering is eliminated, which to me at least is invaluable. And, you still download almost no spam volume. Don't hesitate to contact me if you want more detail (note my annouced email in this post is to be corrected) Hervé -- remove ".listes" and add a dot after fh please enlevez ".listes" et ajoutez un point après fh
Re: MacBook Pro, PM 5.2.3 "Rebuilding Sort Indices"
Mikael Byström <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I managed to solve this forced rebuild indices problem only by *deleting* > the "Message Database index" file before rebuilding. While the cause of > forced rebuilding have been unknown, this have never failed me. Here on a new MBP I got this issue because after reinstalling PM from scratch, I got the idea of just copying bluntly the old PM files folder back in place, which had the consequence that it changed its files permissions. After reallocating all permissions to the current user, I found that there was still this issue of the index, and I had to give read/write permissions, on that index file, to all the "group", not only the user. Now it works. I would agree, just deleting the index and rebuilding it may be better :-) -- remove ".listes" and add a dot after fh please enlevez ".listes" et ajoutez un point après fh
Re: receiving Japanese
Shell Olson / 2006/03/24 / 07:16 AM wrote: >There are some people from whom I receive seemingly random characters >(I'm sure they aren't, but whatever they are seems irrelevant). Maybe >Hiro can help me? Or does this problem occur with other languages, too? >Certainly one source is users of hotmail.com but it is not limited to them. While I never experienced this problem with PM, I have suffered the same problem on various Windows emailers such as Outlook and Lotus Notes long years ago. However, the issue isn't encoding. When you say random characters, I assume you can see correct sentence partially and it starts to corrupt in a middle of the sentence, right? This is due to "Gomi" byte got within the multiple byte sequence, might be caused by (a) the sender's mailer such as one running on Windows English with Japanese Locale (Windows require so called Far East Package in order to have the true Japanese OS dlls, and it ain't cheap), or (b) sender's server gateway that drops the control byte. Here is an interesting side notes. Berklee has huge percentage of Asian students. They use their own email interface for students. When you receive Japanese email, and setting encode correctly, you can view most of the sentences but not all. However, when you hit Reply, all will be displayed correctly in the quote section. I have no idea why it is this way. Back to the topic, when I had this problem on Windows, I had to ask the sender to resend in HTML format (yeah, so much of anti-HTML!). I actually don't know how much PM is contributing to this problem since I have not seen it with PM, but now I am very curious if you could receive the same message with Mail.app to compare. -- - Hiro [PROTECTED] <[PROTECTED]> <[PROTECTED]>
