Re: Complex boolean filters (was: Re: Outgoing filters don't work?)
PowerMail Engineering wrote: Christian Roth wrote: (from startswith kris OR from startswith roth) AND (account is 'Private') It is of course not as flexible as boolean expressions, but but you can do this with the following filter: [from] [includes at least one of the words] [kris* roth*] [account] [is] [private] [all conditions are met] You can also use: [from] [is in folder/group] [foo] if you have a group or folder containing the addresses you want to filter. [breaking my promise] Thanks Jérôme, quite elegant! This made me finally RTFM at http:// www.ctmdev.com/documentation/manual/searching.html. Hey, I never said that the current filter concept is bad! It just requires sometimes a little bit of thought (which is never a bad thing, anyway...) and it has definitely its strengths over other implementations due to the ordered evaluation, which is essentially a (implicit) priority attribution to rules - which IS useful... Regards, Christian.
Re: Complex boolean filters (was: Re: Outgoing filters don't work?)
Christian Roth wrote: Second, the need for understanding and using filter ordering and the stop checkbox partially comes from the fact that I cannot express a desired condition in one single filter only: (from startswith kris OR from startswith roth) AND (account is 'Private') It is of course not as flexible as boolean expressions, but but you can do this with the following filter: [from] [includes at least one of the words] [kris* roth*] [account] [is] [private] [all conditions are met] You can also use: [from] [is in folder/group] [foo] if you have a group or folder containing the addresses you want to filter. Jérôme - PowerMail Engineering - PowerMail 4.2 is really, really fast. It is designed with a nice, simple interface and lots of options. Searching through literally thousands of messages and addresses takes only an instant and the import from Mail.app worked like a charm. Daniel M. East, President of the The Mid-Atlantic Macintosh User Groups Download a demo version from www.ctmdev.com -
Complex boolean filters (was: Re: Outgoing filters don't work?)
PowerMail Engineering wrote: Using both AND and OR operators in a filter would be way to difficult to configure for most users. A lot of users already have difficulties to order their filters and use the stop checkbox correctly, so a complex interface like this one just out of question. First, I think the ordering of filters with break-out-points (Stop checkbox) is a powerful filter design, because you can keep single rules small and easy. Second, the need for understanding and using filter ordering and the stop checkbox partially comes from the fact that I cannot express a desired condition in one single filter only: (from startswith kris OR from startswith roth) AND (account is 'Private') filters mail to me on the Private account that is from Christian, who uses two different email addresses (either form work or at home). In the current filter architecture, this means having two filters: (1) from startswith kris account is Private [all conditions match] [stop filter evaluation] (2) from startswith roth account is Private [all conditions match] [stop filter evaluation] I'm not saying this is bad! It just adds to the number of filters I currently have in my list. For me, it is easier to keep track of the one, boolean filter above (named Private mail from Christian) than the two lower ones, because it is congruent with natural language wording and thinking, but then I'm a programmer for a living. :-) Actually, I indeed think you are right in regarding a filter-redesign as lowest-priority item for PM at present, Jérôme. There are several features that should be addressed first which add much more benefit to users and as a consequence to CTM (which is also very important to me, PM being my second-most important software tool). Hereby withdrawing from further complex boolean filter discussion, Christian
Re: Boolean Filters
On 21/06/2004 at 12:11 PM I saw PowerMail Engineering type: Christian Roth wrote: it would be a TREMENDOUS feature if the options within a filter could be individually grouped in a boolean fashion And for a IMO nice graphical interface solution to complex boolean expressions, see ChronoSync's Rules tab, Intermediate mode: Using both AND and OR operators in a filter would be way to difficult to configure for most users. A lot of users already have difficulties to order their filters and use the stop checkbox correctly, so a complex interface like this one just out of question. Perhaps a preference [off by default] that would allow for 'advanced' filtering? Just a thought. Kename I've stayed out of this thread, but I will toss this in. I work for a company that has thousands of people coming to it's support site. I have been actively involved in the knowledge management end of things for over 4 years. Our surveys and data continue to show that a majority of people (over 96 percent) use one or two words when searching for information. One of the more frustrating things for people like myself is how do you design for this. Yes, adding boolean operators is great for 3-4% off the users, but that doesn't address the majority of users. We added an advanced search for boolean searches. You know what we got? 96% of the people using one or two words! People used it because it was advanced. Ultimately we gained nothing from it. We could add regular expressions, but then less than 1% of the people would get those, so we would end up putting in a lot of work for very few people. While those small groups of people appreciate it, it just doesn't make good business sense to do so. Wayne -- sans la Musique la Vie serait une Erreur Without music, life would be a serious mistake. - Frederich Nietzsche Live DAT Music Page: http://homepage.mac.com/wayneb/ Wayne's Music Calendar: http://ical.mac.com/wayneb/Music PowerMail AppleScript Archives: http://homepage.mac.com/wayneb/powermail.html Music Currently playing:
Re(2): Boolean Filters
On 21/06/2004 at 12:11 PM I saw PowerMail Engineering type: Christian Roth wrote: it would be a TREMENDOUS feature if the options within a filter could be individually grouped in a boolean fashion And for a IMO nice graphical interface solution to complex boolean expressions, see ChronoSync's Rules tab, Intermediate mode: Using both AND and OR operators in a filter would be way to difficult to configure for most users. A lot of users already have difficulties to order their filters and use the stop checkbox correctly, so a complex interface like this one just out of question. Perhaps a preference [off by default] that would allow for 'advanced' filtering? Just a thought. Kename
