Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Gilpin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Is there a convention to follow as regards where the reply goes? Sometimes I get replies at the top of the original email, sometimes individual comments interspersed in the Original message and sometimes at the bottom. Frequently it is difficult to know to what the new comments relate. If the RULES were to be pointed out to us wrong-doers, perhaps we would try harder next time. Obviously no Gold Star this time!! OE can be set up to follow the usual conventions of a user list. The convention is to keep the reply format as simple as possible, so that everyone can follow it with whatever email software they may be using. On a users list it is usually better if a reply is below the quoted text from someone else, then the top phrase of whom you are replying to makes sense. Although, there is a popular convention in emails to have the last comment at the top, as this can be easier to read by being at the top. The quote from another user should set to , the greater than sign. This then gets increased by one more , to become , etc, as more replies are shown. Also plain text at 80 characters per line, makes it simple and easy to scan for reading. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Malcolm Cadman wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Gilpin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Is there a convention to follow as regards where the reply goes? Sometimes I get replies at the top of the original email, sometimes individual comments interspersed in the Original message and sometimes at the bottom. Frequently it is difficult to know to what the new comments relate. If the RULES were to be pointed out to us wrong-doers, perhaps we would try harder next time. Obviously no Gold Star this time!! OE can be set up to follow the usual conventions of a user list. The convention is to keep the reply format as simple as possible, so that everyone can follow it with whatever email software they may be using. On a users list it is usually better if a reply is below the quoted text from someone else, then the top phrase of whom you are replying to makes sense. I like interleaving replies in context - this seems the most common. Although, there is a popular convention in emails to have the last comment at the top, as this can be easier to read by being at the top. The quote from another user should set to , the greater than sign. This then gets increased by one more , to become , etc, as more replies are shown. Also plain text at 80 characters per line, makes it simple and easy to scan for reading. ... and mailers like Thunderbird and Turnpike (but *not* Outlook I think) will protect quoted (indented) text from editing accidentally, and make them a different colour. It is then *very* easy to read. Tony Firshman - -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGFDbpM3RzOs8+btoRApCUAJ9XsTfD1uEx5UuX4YAxCMxYq7CcYACfSmKZ zFonVf4JIZbhKNKDgr5QM1U= =bsZm -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
- Original Message - From: Tony Firshman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 10:21 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dennis S wrote: John, In Outlook Tools Menu click: Options, Send, Mail Sending Format, Plain Text settings: Tick the box; Indent the original text when replying or forwarding. Viola, Denny Forwarding? Does that mean 'replying' too? ... and is the default a '' character? When I last looked (in OE) I think it mentioned the term 'quote text in-line'. Tony Denny's instructions are correct to the letter on my OE 6 and the default is too I hope that this makes it easier for you all. Thanks Denny. John Gilpin. - -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF4LpzM3RzOs8+btoRAuxhAJ9MANPCn3NGlzoT2jz10Gcx38cnPgCghbL9 9ykotlCzfk9vTn2G9gLpNZ0= =hF+b -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
- Original Message - From: Tony Firshman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dennis S wrote: John, In Outlook Tools Menu click: Options, Send, Mail Sending Format, Plain Text settings: Tick the box; Indent the original text when replying or forwarding. Viola, Denny Forwarding? Does that mean 'replying' too? ... and is the default a '' character? Yes. There is a drop menu to choose the character too, but is default, I believe. Mine started using using it, 'right out of the box', so to speak. When I last looked (in OE) I think it mentioned the term 'quote text in-line'. Tony - -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF4LpzM3RzOs8+btoRAuxhAJ9MANPCn3NGlzoT2jz10Gcx38cnPgCghbL9 9ykotlCzfk9vTn2G9gLpNZ0= =hF+b -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Robert Newson wrote: Tony Firshman wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dennis S wrote: John, In Outlook Tools Menu click: Options, Send, Mail Sending Format, Plain Text settings: Tick the box; Indent the original text when replying or forwarding. Viola, Denny Forwarding? Does that mean 'replying' too? Forwarding is when you forward the message, with headers, to someone. The setting is how to quote such original message when it's being forwarded. Replying doesn't usually bother to include message headers in the body (along with the quoted message) usually sets the To: field as the original sender (From: or Reply-to: field). I was just querying whether Denny was talking 'forwarding' or 'replying, not asking for a definition (8-)# He didn't say. Sorry for the ambiguity. Tony - -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF4U+dM3RzOs8+btoRAnAmAJ9U5umSLMj8K0U72+bN4NVnk9ikWwCfcerU aBqx+m+NPIYInXcVjNxPHHk= =E+Bs -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
- Original Message - From: Wolfgang Lenerz To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 7:16 AM Subject: Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee gwicks wrote : Sorry, John, but you are missing the point. In this case Quanta should not have needed a request. There are times when Quanta needs to take an initiative, Best wishes, Geoff I'm not so sure I agree with you there. You can't expect Quanta to contact all those with potential projects. Surely it would be more reasonable for that person to contact Quanta? Sorry, this is going to be a long email. Can we go back to first principles? It the last few weeks there has been an enormous amount of criticism of Quanta for its failure or unwillingness to fund the Goldfire project. Quanta has been told, sometimes by non-members, that it is its duty, if necessary, to use up all of its capital on the Goldfire project. Quanta has been unfairly and unjustly maligned. In 2004 a group of us were prepared to present a business case to Quanta for funding of the project. This never happened for the simple reason that Nasta himself was not enthusiastic about Quanta involvement. I do not know what Nasta's present attitude is, but I have no reason to believe it has changed. I can also see good reasons, partly because of the links between his work situation and Goldfire, why he took this attitude. In the circumstances Quanta cannot have any involvement in the Goldfire project. For all that muchof the criticism of Quanta over its capital is justified. Nevertheless I believe Quanta has changed a lot of the last two years. The huge protest we had on this list at the end of 2004 when Quanta chairman John Mason threatened to close it down, not realising that it was not his to close down, was an enormous shock to Quanta and changed a lot of attitudes. Among other things I think Quanta is now more willing to make use of its capital than it was three years ago. Unfortunately some of the old thinking tends to persist and Quanta still gives the impression of being a bureaucratic body resisting change and expenditure. Even more unfortunately this has been combined with a tendency for this committee to give more power to itself and less to the members. I have had a lot of experience of constitutions and I have never seen one which gives the executive so much power and the members so little as the Quanta Constitution. It is a most unhealthy situation when that executive is safeguarding £12,000 of members' money. (Please note I am talking structures, not people here. I am not implying a lack of integrity by the committee.) Other worrying features of Quanta are that it has lost 86 members in two years, and that it is proving more and more difficult to service the vast majority of members. Frankly, if I did not have QL Today responsibilities and attend shows, I would not be a member of Quanta. Quanta means very little to me. I don't read the most of the magazine, the website hasn't been updated in over a year and I use download libraries, not Quanta. I hear many people saying similar things, but who remain in Quanta as a form of loyalty. Quanta more than anything else needs to look at its image and in particular at the bad financial reputation it has. I am not suggesting that Quanta embraces every harebrained scheme that appears on this list, and I also fully agree that a detailed business plan is necessary for major investments. At the same time it is also important Quanta keeps an eye out for projects for which it could be involved, and itself takes an initiative, because this will show a great willingness to be an active partner in the QL community. The USB project was a good example of this. It concerns a major need of the QL community, it was not expensive and it involves an established trader with a proven track record. As it happens Tony Firshman has intervened effectively, but now he will rightly get the kudos and not Quanta. This next bit is going to hurt. John Gilpin is being dishonest and disingenuous in his financial and other objections. In 1995 Quanta made an expenditure of £576 of members' money after just 3 telephone calls to 4 of the 6 committee members. (The other two were on holiday.) One of the four, me, said no, but it was a democratic decision. If the committee want to do it the machinery is in place for quick decision making. Within 24 hours its is possible for an email exchange to take place between all committee members. We did it several times when I was on the committee. Quanta also has an efficient secretary and Sarah Gilpin has ensured that telephone decisions are confirmed by email and the emails recorded in the minutes, Best Wishes, Geoff ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 gwicks wrote: The USB project was a good example of this. It concerns a major need of the QL community, it was not expensive and it involves an established trader with a proven track record. As it happens Tony Firshman has intervened effectively, but now he will rightly get the kudos and not Quanta. I had better get on with it (8-)# I am planning to buy two and see what is going to be possible. I am though going to be heavily committed in the next six months on a house renovation. Tony - -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF4Ez9M3RzOs8+btoRArZMAJ4orxMTunQ/Fs2EMJVva8Bng/6IDQCfU1ah UDhf8A+y9qNo87CxaNnwwrM= =A3Fo -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dennis S wrote: John, In Outlook Tools Menu click: Options, Send, Mail Sending Format, Plain Text settings: Tick the box; Indent the original text when replying or forwarding. Viola, Denny Forwarding? Does that mean 'replying' too? ... and is the default a '' character? When I last looked (in OE) I think it mentioned the term 'quote text in-line'. Tony - -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF4LpzM3RzOs8+btoRAuxhAJ9MANPCn3NGlzoT2jz10Gcx38cnPgCghbL9 9ykotlCzfk9vTn2G9gLpNZ0= =hF+b -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
Tony wrote - === Forwarding? Does that mean 'replying' too? ... and is the default a '' character? When I last looked (in OE) I think it mentioned the term 'quote text in-line'. == Message Auto Options in OE are - reply, reply all and forward. Related default settings are in - tools/options/send/plain text settings. They include - indent the original with ' ' when replying or forwarding Best wishes to all - [including lurkers and Scotsmen] but especially those who, like me, have stubbornly attempted to change the CaSe of superbasic variable names on the fly etc.! Goodole QUANTA put me right (with ). My thanks to that author. John in Wales ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
John Gilpin wrote:
- Original Message -
From: gwicks [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
- Original Message -
From: John Gilpin
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
{The point as I see it is that NO ONE who wanted some QUANTA money
bothered
to pick up the phone!! You are absolutely correct that following such a
phone call, all that is needed is a couple of emails (to get the approval
of
the majority of the committee), a cheque, a receipt for the goods
purchased
and a record of the email committee decision by the secretary.}
Sorry, John, but you are missing the point. In this case Quanta should not
have needed a request. There are times when Quanta needs to take an
initiative,
{Why, what makes this case any different from any other request for
funding? Surely, we can expect a request laying out the details of the
suggested project. As Treasurer, I have been nominated to look after the
financial aspects of QUANTA by its members, for its members and I can't
find anything in my remit which says I can spend QUANTA funds without the
decision of the the majority of the QUANTA Committee. I am, however,
prepared to take all requests received to Committee and ask for their
approval.}
Best wishes,
Geoff
{Regards,
John Gilpin.}
John/
You ought to set your mailer to 'quote' replies inline - appending ''.
This would make it readable. I cannot easily see in the above what is
Geoff's original and what is your reply.
You seem to be putting your replies in brackets. This defeats the usual
mailer trick of appending '' and changing colours.
This has happened with a lot of your recent mail.
Tony
- --
QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://firshman.co.uk
Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman
TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
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dYvbQXGlcPiR2Vjl/dAt1yg=
=loZU
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Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
- Original Message - From: Wolfgang Lenerz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 7:16 AM Subject: Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee gwicks wrote : Sorry, John, but you are missing the point. In this case Quanta should not have needed a request. There are times when Quanta needs to take an initiative, Best wishes, Geoff I'm not so sure I agree with you there. You can't expect Quanta to contact all those with potential projects. Surely it would be more reasonable for that person to contact Quanta? Wolfgang Gosh, so QUANTA is not talking a language that nobody else understands - I was beginning to wonder!! Thanks Wolfgang for your interpretation of my past few emails. Still listening in. John Gilpin. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
Thanks for the advice Tony,
Are you suggesting that I just leave out the brackets? Like this, or do I
have to set up something else in OE if so what?
Is there a convention to follow as regards where the reply goes? Sometimes I
get replies at the top of the original email, sometimes individual comments
interspersed in the Original message and sometimes at the bottom. Frequently
it is difficult to know to what the new comments relate. If the RULES were
to be pointed out to us wrong-doers, perhaps we would try harder next time.
Obviously no Gold Star this time!!
Regards,
John Gilpin.
- Original Message -
From: Tony Firshman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
John Gilpin wrote:
- Original Message -
From: gwicks [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
- Original Message -
From: John Gilpin
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
{The point as I see it is that NO ONE who wanted some QUANTA money
bothered
to pick up the phone!! You are absolutely correct that following such a
phone call, all that is needed is a couple of emails (to get the
approval
of
the majority of the committee), a cheque, a receipt for the goods
purchased
and a record of the email committee decision by the secretary.}
Sorry, John, but you are missing the point. In this case Quanta should
not
have needed a request. There are times when Quanta needs to take an
initiative,
{Why, what makes this case any different from any other request for
funding? Surely, we can expect a request laying out the details of the
suggested project. As Treasurer, I have been nominated to look after the
financial aspects of QUANTA by its members, for its members and I can't
find anything in my remit which says I can spend QUANTA funds without
the
decision of the the majority of the QUANTA Committee. I am, however,
prepared to take all requests received to Committee and ask for their
approval.}
Best wishes,
Geoff
{Regards,
John Gilpin.}
John/
You ought to set your mailer to 'quote' replies inline - appending ''.
This would make it readable. I cannot easily see in the above what is
Geoff's original and what is your reply.
You seem to be putting your replies in brackets. This defeats the usual
mailer trick of appending '' and changing colours.
This has happened with a lot of your recent mail.
Tony
- --
QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://firshman.co.uk
Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman
TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
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dYvbQXGlcPiR2Vjl/dAt1yg=
=loZU
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Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 John Gilpin wrote: Thanks for the advice Tony, Are you suggesting that I just leave out the brackets? Like this, or do I have to set up something else in OE if so what? Yes indeed. I have long since removed OE, but it *does* default the way you are using. Somewhere there you can choose to use 'quote' characters in reply, and you should choose ''. Is there a convention to follow as regards where the reply goes? Sometimes I get replies at the top of the original email, sometimes individual comments interspersed in the Original message and sometimes at the bottom. Frequently it is difficult to know to what the new comments relate. If the RULES were to be pointed out to us wrong-doers, perhaps we would try harder next time. Obviously no Gold Star this time!! In mailing lists, practically everyone uses '' quote character and inline replies. I find this much the easiest to read, especially as all the mail clients I have use differentiate with colour and protect the quoted text. I would recommend ditching the awful OE (and Outlook) and use the excellent Mozilla Thunderbird. When you install Thunderbird it will automatically import your mail and address list. Tony - -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF3xg2M3RzOs8+btoRAqLPAJ9LyCF44wc+2A7NVslF7hI9/91xGgCgirkP 67BX0Q2zspYf6EsW43P2g7k= =RbhP -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Gilpin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes - Original Message - From: Wolfgang Lenerz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 7:16 AM Subject: Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee gwicks wrote : Sorry, John, but you are missing the point. In this case Quanta should not have needed a request. There are times when Quanta needs to take an initiative, Best wishes, Geoff I'm not so sure I agree with you there. You can't expect Quanta to contact all those with potential projects. Surely it would be more reasonable for that person to contact Quanta? Wolfgang Gosh, so QUANTA is not talking a language that nobody else understands - I was beginning to wonder!! Thanks Wolfgang for your interpretation of my past few emails. Still listening in. John Gilpin. On the other hand, there could be a middle ground where Quanta could put forward the interests and views of its members. Determined from its own correspondence with members, magazines articles, meetings, etc. So, developments in the area of a replacement / enhancement for Gold Card and Super Card, a USB device connection ability, etc. Could be prompted for. That way a developer can see some interest to be fulfilled -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
Hi, To be fair about this discussion - see John's reply to my question about whether Quanta could buy out the copyright on QMAC Duncan ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
- Original Message -
From: John Gilpin
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
{The point as I see it is that NO ONE who wanted some QUANTA money bothered
to pick up the phone!! You are absolutely correct that following such a
phone call, all that is needed is a couple of emails (to get the approval of
the majority of the committee), a cheque, a receipt for the goods purchased
and a record of the email committee decision by the secretary.}
Sorry, John, but you are missing the point. In this case Quanta should not
have needed a request. There are times when Quanta needs to take an
initiative,
Best wishes,
Geoff
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Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
- Original Message -
From: gwicks [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
- Original Message -
From: John Gilpin
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
{The point as I see it is that NO ONE who wanted some QUANTA money
bothered
to pick up the phone!! You are absolutely correct that following such a
phone call, all that is needed is a couple of emails (to get the approval
of
the majority of the committee), a cheque, a receipt for the goods
purchased
and a record of the email committee decision by the secretary.}
Sorry, John, but you are missing the point. In this case Quanta should not
have needed a request. There are times when Quanta needs to take an
initiative,
{Why, what makes this case any different from any other request for
funding? Surely, we can expect a request laying out the details of the
suggested project. As Treasurer, I have been nominated to look after the
financial aspects of QUANTA by its members, for its members and I can't
find anything in my remit which says I can spend QUANTA funds without the
decision of the the majority of the QUANTA Committee. I am, however,
prepared to take all requests received to Committee and ask for their
approval.}
Best wishes,
Geoff
{Regards,
John Gilpin.}
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Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 6:48 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee In a message dated 19/02/2007 21:32:58 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: chat line comment like If QUANTA were to sponsor someone to the tune of $100 US + postage to produce immediate financial support. Hi I doubt anyone did. My comment was addressed to QUANTA ie all the members of that organisation accessible here, that includes the committee naturally but not only. The committee at the end of the day is just that, a committee not QUANTA. I imagine a business case is more likely to succeed with the committee if there is a reasonable amount of interest in a project and it is possible to seek an indication of that here. Exactly so. When we asked for full details of the project in mind we included a business plan. So I hope you wont mind if there are further comments of this sort as we all know they are not a formal approach to the committee. Don't mind at all. Nice to know the committee is listening. Yes, still listening. Regards Duncan John Gilpin. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
- Original Message - From: John Gilpin To: ql-users [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 9:32 PM Subject: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee What my Audited Accounts do tell me is that QUANTA still has an Accumulated Fund of over £12,000 (all will be disclosed in the next issue of QUANTA Magazine) and we have a committee who are prepared to listen to specific requests for loans or grants for QL Development. This has been the situation since I joined the Committee in 2000 (just at the end of a very successful arrangement with D D and their work in supplying Q40/60s). We have extended our offer on a number of occasions but have had no takers to date. Let me repeat, on behalf of the QUANTA Committee, If you have a project which you think would be valuable to the QL fraternity but which needs some development support, PLEASE write to us with as much detail as you can give, including your business plan, to enable us to consider your request. Bye the Bye, don't expect a chat line comment like If QUANTA were to sponsor someone to the tune of $100 US + postage to produce immediate financial support. Come on you guys, tickle the keyboard ivories and ask us properly for what you think you need!! The worst you can expect is for this traditionalist committee to say Not this time. I have returned to this mailing, because I realised overnight that you have unwittingly defined the difference between a radical and a traditionalist. The last time a Goldfire type expansion card was seriously discussed by the QL community was in 2004. This radical was not sitting on his backside waiting for a piece of paper. He was out there in the field talking to the potential developer (and other developers) at QL2004. He was also talking to the trader who would have marketed the card about preparing a business plan. (Now what were the Quanta team at QL2004 doing? - oh sorry, I forgot - Quanta boycotted the first international QL show for 4 years.) We know the Dear Leader is never happier that when he has a few pieces of paper to play with, but surely you can see the difference between a Goldfire project with an investment of £5,000 and a USB project with an investment of about £100. That is a fifth of the cost of the AA signposting at QLis21, less than the cost of the beads for the natives Phone Trees and less that the cost of the Gay T-shirts. Do we really have to wait for the great Quanta beast to arise from its hibernation and slowly creak into bureaucratic action? This is something that could have been settled over a weekend with a few telephone calls or emails. The only paperwork that was necessary was a receipt for the cost of the boards and a record in the Quanta minute book, Best wishes, Geoff ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
I have let my Quanta membership lapse so I am talking as an outsider at the moment. I see no earthly reason for Quanta to keep 12,000 BPD (23,000 USD) in a bank account. Funding a suitable free QL OS on the software side and a Goldfire type device on the hardware side would be a good investment even if every last cent was spent and nothing came of it because at least it would be an attempt to do something. As things now stand we will all fade away and die and that money will only be good for making memorial plaque in some computer museum for people to look at and wonder. As has been said, Money is like manure, of very little use except it be spread. I will consider joining again when there is some movement along these lines. -- Bill On Wed, 21 Feb 2007, gwicks wrote: - Original Message - From: John Gilpin To: ql-users [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 9:32 PM Subject: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee What my Audited Accounts do tell me is that QUANTA still has an Accumulated Fund of over ?12,000 (all will be disclosed in the next issue of QUANTA Magazine) and we have a committee who are prepared to listen to specific requests for loans or grants for QL Development. This has been the situation since I joined the Committee in 2000 (just at the end of a very successful arrangement with D D and their work in supplying Q40/60s). We have extended our offer on a number of occasions but have had no takers to date. Let me repeat, on behalf of the QUANTA Committee, If you have a project which you think would be valuable to the QL fraternity but which needs some development support, PLEASE write to us with as much detail as you can give, including your business plan, to enable us to consider your request. Bye the Bye, don't expect a chat line comment like If QUANTA were to sponsor someone to the tune of $100 US + postage to produce immediate financial support. Come on you guys, tickle the keyboard ivories and ask us properly for what you think you need!! The worst you can expect is for this traditionalist committee to say Not this time. I have returned to this mailing, because I realised overnight that you have unwittingly defined the difference between a radical and a traditionalist. The last time a Goldfire type expansion card was seriously discussed by the QL community was in 2004. This radical was not sitting on his backside waiting for a piece of paper. He was out there in the field talking to the potential developer (and other developers) at QL2004. He was also talking to the trader who would have marketed the card about preparing a business plan. (Now what were the Quanta team at QL2004 doing? - oh sorry, I forgot - Quanta boycotted the first international QL show for 4 years.) We know the Dear Leader is never happier that when he has a few pieces of paper to play with, but surely you can see the difference between a Goldfire project with an investment of ?5,000 and a USB project with an investment of about ?100. That is a fifth of the cost of the AA signposting at QLis21, less than the cost of the beads for the natives Phone Trees and less that the cost of the Gay T-shirts. Do we really have to wait for the great Quanta beast to arise from its hibernation and slowly creak into bureaucratic action? This is something that could have been settled over a weekend with a few telephone calls or emails. The only paperwork that was necessary was a receipt for the cost of the boards and a record in the Quanta minute book, Best wishes, Geoff ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
- Original Message -
From: gwicks [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
- Original Message -
From: John Gilpin
To: ql-users [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 9:32 PM
Subject: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
What my Audited Accounts do tell me is that QUANTA still has an Accumulated
Fund of over £12,000 (all will be disclosed in the next issue of QUANTA
Magazine) and we have a committee who are prepared to listen to specific
requests for loans or grants for QL Development.
This has been the situation since I joined the Committee in 2000 (just at
the end of a very successful arrangement with D D and their work in
supplying Q40/60s). We have extended our offer on a number of occasions but
have had no takers to date. Let me repeat, on behalf of the QUANTA
Committee, If you have a project which you think would be valuable to the
QL fraternity but which needs some development support, PLEASE write to us
with as much detail as you can give, including your business plan, to
enable us to consider your request.
Bye the Bye, don't expect a chat line comment like If QUANTA were to
sponsor someone to the tune of $100 US + postage to produce immediate
financial support. Come on you guys, tickle the keyboard ivories and ask us
properly for what you think you need!! The worst you can expect is for this
traditionalist committee to say Not this time.
I have returned to this mailing, because I realised overnight that you have
unwittingly defined the difference between a radical and a
traditionalist.
The last time a Goldfire type expansion card was seriously discussed by the
QL community was in 2004. This radical was not sitting on his backside
waiting for a piece of paper. He was out there in the field talking to the
potential developer (and other developers) at QL2004. He was also talking to
the trader who would have marketed the card about preparing a business plan.
(Now what were the Quanta team at QL2004 doing? - oh sorry, I forgot -
Quanta boycotted the first international QL show for 4 years.)
{So what happened to the results of all these discussions? Were QUANTA
informed of the outcome? If so by whom and to whom?}
We know the Dear Leader is never happier that when he has a few pieces of
paper to play with, but surely you can see the difference between a Goldfire
project with an investment of £5,000 and a USB project with an investment of
about £100.
That is a fifth of the cost of the AA signposting at QLis21, less than the
cost of the beads for the natives Phone Trees and less that the cost of
the Gay T-shirts.
{Is that the Traditional Shirts that the radicals refused to wear?}
{Yes, and just less than the Annual Audit Fee and the Insurance Premium to
cover Public Liability at the QUANTA Workshops but I'm not sure why we are
trying to equate what £100 will buy!}
Do we really have to wait for the great Quanta beast to arise from its
hibernation and slowly creak into bureaucratic action? This is something
that could have been settled over a weekend with a few telephone calls or
emails. The only paperwork that was necessary was a receipt for the cost of
the boards and a record in the Quanta minute book,
{The point as I see it is that NO ONE who wanted some QUANTA money bothered
to pick up the phone!! You are absolutely correct that following such a
phone call, all that is needed is a couple of emails (to get the approval of
the majority of the committee), a cheque, a receipt for the goods purchased
and a record of the email committee decision by the secretary.}
Best wishes,
Geoff
{Regards to all,
John Gilpin.}
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Re: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee
- Original Message - From: John Gilpin To: ql-users [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 9:32 PM Subject: [ql-users] Comment from the Traditional QUANTA Committee Over the past few months officers of the QUANTA Committee have monitored the ql-users list (as they do) and, from time to time have discussed its content. They have recently been referred to by a known radical terrorist as traditionalists (Which was what the membership voted for) but that doesn't mean we are sitting on our backsides doing nothing. Just because I described the committee as traditional, it does not mean that I say you are not working hard. In your particular case your work has lead to considerable improvements in Quanta. Since I am now being described as a terrorist, perhaps I should tell you that one of my slogans is: If I assassinate John Gilpin tonight, Quanta will cease to exist tomorrow. Someone wanted to know why a number of past members had resigned. I, as Membership Secretary know why a number of them resigned because they politely wrote and informed me of their decision and their reason(s). Thanks for the effort. I shall be interested to hear the full results. You have to accept that 86 people in two years is not just natural wastage. It is not happening elsewhere, and the alarm bells sounded at QL Today when people thought that if things are going badly for Quanta, then they must also be going badly for QL Today. In fact our loss of circulation last year was well under double figures. Another thread I've noticed recently has been the suggested need for QUANTA to finance development of this or that bit of Hardware or software or driver or snip What my Audited Accounts do tell me is that QUANTA still has an Accumulated Fund of over £12,000 (all will be disclosed in the next issue of QUANTA Magazine) and we have a committee who are prepared to listen to specific requests for loans or grants for QL Development. This terrorist is on record as saying this committee has show a greater willingness to make use of Quanta's capital Bye the Bye, don't expect a chat line comment like If QUANTA were to sponsor someone to the tune of $100 US + postage to produce immediate financial support. Come on you guys, tickle the keyboard ivories and ask us properly for what you think you need!! The worst you can expect is for this traditionalist committee to say Not this time. I can't agree with you on this one. The specific proposal was for a miniscule amount of money for a project that, if successful, could vastly improve QL possibilities. Quanta did not have to wait for a request, it could have responded straight away. You have taken money from traders who are making a substantial loss for years, while you are sitting on £12,000 in the bank. Surely a little something in return is not too much to ask. Returning to the traditionalist theme. Quanta's great weakness is that it remains much the same in organisation, structure, finance and thinking as it did when it had 2,000 members. It is time to adapt to being a much smaller organisation. Indeed within 12 to 18 months Quanta could become totally paralysed by its own constitution, Best wishes, Geoff ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
