[RBW] Re: High bars at a club ride

[Joe Bernard]

I'm happy to see that the group are nice people happy to ride the hoods 
with Leah and Marc. It looks fun! 

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 8:23:14 PM UTC-7 Max S wrote:

> I think that's just part of the design intent for the bike, and the reason 
> the drop bar is such a persistent design element. I think that on a 
> properly set-up road bike, I should have at least 3 positions: 1) Chillin', 
> 2) Groovin', and 3) Jammin' – tops, hoods, and drops, respectively. When 
> I'm "Chillin'", I want to be comfortable, and my position may not be all 
> that different than when I'm riding my commuter bike with swept-back bars. 
>
> - Max "gotta work on my flexibility as I age" in A2
>
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 5:14:52 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> What the dropbar riders would tell you is they have the option of that 
>> higher position plus a lower one. Which is fair if you're going to use it, 
>> but in all my years of riding drops I hardly ever did. Gimme my Billies! 
>>
>> Joe "upright and catching wind as the Good Lord intended" Bernard
>>
>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 4:29:03 AM UTC-7 Marc Irwin wrote:
>>
>>> It was a normal Monday night ride with the Kalamazoo Bicycle Club.  A 
>>> typical group was riding 15-16 MPH for 25 or so miles.  A good bunch of 
>>> people in biking regalia on their over the counter crotch rockets with drop 
>>> bars, except for me and Leah Peterson on our Rivendells. with upright 
>>> bars.In the lousy cell phone shot I took from the back of the group, 
>>> Leah is the second white helmet from from the front left.  Notice her 
>>> posture compared to the body position of all the riders on their drop bars.
>>> [image: high bars.jpg]
>>> It was that way the whole ride. Most club riders assume their drop bars 
>>> make them faster, after all, EVERYBODY uses them right?  
>>>
>>> Marc
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: High bars at a club ride

[Max S]

I think that's just part of the design intent for the bike, and the reason 
the drop bar is such a persistent design element. I think that on a 
properly set-up road bike, I should have at least 3 positions: 1) Chillin', 
2) Groovin', and 3) Jammin' – tops, hoods, and drops, respectively. When 
I'm "Chillin'", I want to be comfortable, and my position may not be all 
that different than when I'm riding my commuter bike with swept-back bars. 

- Max "gotta work on my flexibility as I age" in A2

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 5:14:52 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> What the dropbar riders would tell you is they have the option of that 
> higher position plus a lower one. Which is fair if you're going to use it, 
> but in all my years of riding drops I hardly ever did. Gimme my Billies! 
>
> Joe "upright and catching wind as the Good Lord intended" Bernard
>
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 4:29:03 AM UTC-7 Marc Irwin wrote:
>
>> It was a normal Monday night ride with the Kalamazoo Bicycle Club.  A 
>> typical group was riding 15-16 MPH for 25 or so miles.  A good bunch of 
>> people in biking regalia on their over the counter crotch rockets with drop 
>> bars, except for me and Leah Peterson on our Rivendells. with upright 
>> bars.In the lousy cell phone shot I took from the back of the group, 
>> Leah is the second white helmet from from the front left.  Notice her 
>> posture compared to the body position of all the riders on their drop bars.
>> [image: high bars.jpg]
>> It was that way the whole ride. Most club riders assume their drop bars 
>> make them faster, after all, EVERYBODY uses them right?  
>>
>> Marc
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Homer 6 months review and questions

[atreya...@gmail.com]

Wow thanks for the detailed response Max!
I am still on the fence with  dyno and lights ; along with that , seat post 
(may be Thompson masterpiece )  and cassette I think I can shave off 
another 2lbs without sacrificing on comfort/utility. But still debating 
about it.

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 8:10:32 PM UTC-7 Max S wrote:

> Well, I made the mistake of purchasing a fish scale and weighing my bikes 
> recently... The lightest I had was ~20 lbs, fixed gear at that, and there I 
> was thinking it was crazy light. But they are all ~ 59 cm frames and 
> threaded steerer forks with tall stems, fattish tires, and no krazy karbon 
> bits (even the pair of carbon wheels I have are super deep and weigh ~1,500 
> g). Guess what – my fastest times up some local "climbs" are on the 
> lightest of my bikes, especially when I am running the aero wheels. No 
> surprises there. The nicest "feeling" bike is my fixed gear – until the 
> week that a dirt road gets re-graded, and then the skinny 30 mm tires make 
> it a bit too... under-bikey. An
>
> Anyhow, I think it's fun to consider what weight savings can be obtained. 
> People have almost always made the mistake of conflating safety with weight 
> or comfort with weight or reliability with weight. If you read Henry Ford's 
> biography, he talks about this quite a bit, and one of the greatest things 
> he accomplished for breaking that conventional trade-off was to use 
> lighter, yet stronger steel alloys. The cars got lighter, they became more 
> reliable, less expensive to operate, etc. Much the same thing happened when 
> people started drawing lightweight steel tubes for bicycles – using 
> heavier-walled gas pipe does nothing to help your bike be more enjoyable, 
> comfortable, or reliable. Same with pneumatic tires – lighter weight, more 
> comfort than solid rubber tires. 
>
> So, let's consider the extra weight carried by some of the "comfort / 
> utility" driven components and decide if it's worth it... Some ballpark 
> numbers, give or take: 
>
> Kickstand – 0.5 lb to take it off – I rarely find kickstands increasing my 
> enjoyment of cycling. 
> Tires – 0.3 lbs for lighter (35 mm) tires – lightweight tires *can* be 
> more comfortable and faster rolling!
> Dyno – 0.6 lb to switch to regular front hub – hey, 3-10 watt savings in 
> drag right there! 
> Lights – 0.5 lb to switch to battery powered LEDs – same brightness, less 
> weight, less bulk, occasional charging, why not? 
> Bars – 0.5 lb to switch to lighter (e.g., straight bar) – some people find 
> non-sweepy bars more comfortable, believe it or not! 
> Saddle – 1 lb to switch to modern plastic / carbon saddle – some modern 
> saddles are remarkably good! 
> Seatpost – 0.25 lb for lighter options – as long as it doesn't brake and 
> puts your saddle in the right position... 
> Cranks – 0.5-1 lb to switch to lighter crank & bb (e.g., SRAM Red) – it 
> just works. 
> Cassette & Derailleur – 0.5-1 lb differential for some combos – lighter 
> bike, now you can pedal bigger gears for those hills! 
> Everything else on a "diet" (brakes, headset, bell, skewers, levers, 
> shifters, etc.) can be futzed with to get another pound. 
>
> So, I think you can get things lighter weight, down to about 24 lbs, with 
> those substitutions, and it wouldn't even cost you any net extra, if you 
> sell the items you substitute – may even come out cash positive. William 
> Lindsey has a thread about making his Legolas sub-20 lbs with conventional 
> components. The only real difference from his build and what the above 
> substitutions would produce is that the Legolas frame & fork & stem combo 
> would shave ~2-3 lbs more of yours. 
>
> But just having lighter and skinnier tires will make it feel a lot 
> sprightlier. 
>
> - Max "going fast is also fun!" in A2
>
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 6:41:38 PM UTC-4 Roberta wrote:
>
>> Jason,
>>
>> I often wonder how much of my lightening up project (I only did what was 
>> practical) that brought me so much more joy in riding was that I got better 
>> rims and tires, so the bike just rode better.  Many people in my original 
>> thread pointed that out.  I'm still glad I did the full project, but none 
>> of us here are weight weenies--we ride Rivs, happily, after all.  
>>
>> Roberta
>>
>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 5:49:06 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Very nice!  I had the same thing happen with the Nitto parts bin :) 
>>>
>>> Weight plays a surprisingly small part of the experience of riding a 
>>> lighter bike. Most of the benefit of the lighter tubing is how it performs 
>>> due to the thinner wall thickness (resulting in a "snappy" feel from light 
>>> flexing), and the geometry differences between the two. The few ounces 
>>> saved in the process are quite secondary. 
>>>
>>> That said, the same logic tends to apply to other parts - even though 
>>> the mass difference might not do a lot by itself, it can result in a 
>>> quicker action (ie a derailleur 

Re: [RBW] Homer 6 months review and questions

[atreya...@gmail.com]

Bingo! Well said. I think what I am chasing is the handling or response on 
my homer. The actual weight I don't really care much.

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 2:49:06 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Very nice!  I had the same thing happen with the Nitto parts bin :) 
>
> Weight plays a surprisingly small part of the experience of riding a 
> lighter bike. Most of the benefit of the lighter tubing is how it performs 
> due to the thinner wall thickness (resulting in a "snappy" feel from light 
> flexing), and the geometry differences between the two. The few ounces 
> saved in the process are quite secondary. 
>
> That said, the same logic tends to apply to other parts - even though the 
> mass difference might not do a lot by itself, it can result in a quicker 
> action (ie a derailleur with less inertia to its moving parts) or better 
> feel (ie less rotating mass in your wheels, reducing the gyroscopic effects 
> fighting your steering input) 
>
> On Tuesday, 26 July 2022 at 04:45:30 UTC-7 Steve Cole wrote:
>
>> Deepak,
>> What a wonderful ride.  I have both a Homer (Toyo) and an Atlantis (MIT). 
>>  I love them both.  First, I wonder whether the under-25 pounds figures you 
>> have seen are for Toyo (1st gen) or Waterford (2nd gen) Homers.  They had 
>> different geometry and used different tubes that may explain the gap 
>> between your 28# and the 25# yo've seen.  
>>
>> Second, I often think about replying to questions about how one might cut 
>> the weight of their bike but have never replied.  I strongly believe how 
>> one builds their bike, the components they select, should reflect its 
>> intended primary use.  If going as fast as you can (e.g., racing) is 
>> paramount, cutting weight without sacrificing strength, handling or safety 
>> is sensible.  On the other hand, as is the case for me, if you ride for 
>> exercise, fun and health, I can't think of a good reason to look for ways 
>> to pare the bike's weight.  How much bike/rider weight you push around, as 
>> Grant Peterson has noted, is mostly a reflection of the rider's weight even 
>> in your case. In addition, pushing around a  25# bike is a weight savings 
>> to you of only about 1.5% of total (bike+rider) weight.  While this is 
>> pretty negligible, the added weight should be better for health, strength, 
>> stamina, etc.  Not much better, I admit, but this thinking has stopped me 
>> from focusing on weight and not the joy of riding.
>>
>> I don't know whether this is any help. I hope so.
>> Steve Cole
>> Arlington, Virginia
>>
>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 5:19:01 AM UTC-4 brendonoid wrote:
>>
>>> Your Homer looks perfect and I would second everything that Roberta has 
>>> just said.
>>> Looking at your build in that photo the only things you could lose 
>>> weight on are all utility comfort things. 
>>> The saddle, Dyno, kickstand and brass bell are all weight saving 
>>> opportunities but also things that I personally would consider 'worth the 
>>> weight'.
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Homer 6 months review and questions

[atreya...@gmail.com]

Thanks Steve.  I really don't care about speed , I think the speed 
difference between my homer and atlantis at my level of fitness is probably 
0.5 miles / hr :P . I like the nimble handling of homer and super stable 
/smooth feeling of atlantis  (depending on my mood )

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 4:45:30 AM UTC-7 Steve Cole wrote:

> Deepak,
> What a wonderful ride.  I have both a Homer (Toyo) and an Atlantis (MIT). 
>  I love them both.  First, I wonder whether the under-25 pounds figures you 
> have seen are for Toyo (1st gen) or Waterford (2nd gen) Homers.  They had 
> different geometry and used different tubes that may explain the gap 
> between your 28# and the 25# yo've seen.  
>
> Second, I often think about replying to questions about how one might cut 
> the weight of their bike but have never replied.  I strongly believe how 
> one builds their bike, the components they select, should reflect its 
> intended primary use.  If going as fast as you can (e.g., racing) is 
> paramount, cutting weight without sacrificing strength, handling or safety 
> is sensible.  On the other hand, as is the case for me, if you ride for 
> exercise, fun and health, I can't think of a good reason to look for ways 
> to pare the bike's weight.  How much bike/rider weight you push around, as 
> Grant Peterson has noted, is mostly a reflection of the rider's weight even 
> in your case. In addition, pushing around a  25# bike is a weight savings 
> to you of only about 1.5% of total (bike+rider) weight.  While this is 
> pretty negligible, the added weight should be better for health, strength, 
> stamina, etc.  Not much better, I admit, but this thinking has stopped me 
> from focusing on weight and not the joy of riding.
>
> I don't know whether this is any help. I hope so.
> Steve Cole
> Arlington, Virginia
>
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 5:19:01 AM UTC-4 brendonoid wrote:
>
>> Your Homer looks perfect and I would second everything that Roberta has 
>> just said.
>> Looking at your build in that photo the only things you could lose weight 
>> on are all utility comfort things. 
>> The saddle, Dyno, kickstand and brass bell are all weight saving 
>> opportunities but also things that I personally would consider 'worth the 
>> weight'.
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Homer 6 months review and questions

[Max S]

Well, I made the mistake of purchasing a fish scale and weighing my bikes 
recently... The lightest I had was ~20 lbs, fixed gear at that, and there I 
was thinking it was crazy light. But they are all ~ 59 cm frames and 
threaded steerer forks with tall stems, fattish tires, and no krazy karbon 
bits (even the pair of carbon wheels I have are super deep and weigh ~1,500 
g). Guess what – my fastest times up some local "climbs" are on the 
lightest of my bikes, especially when I am running the aero wheels. No 
surprises there. The nicest "feeling" bike is my fixed gear – until the 
week that a dirt road gets re-graded, and then the skinny 30 mm tires make 
it a bit too... under-bikey. An

Anyhow, I think it's fun to consider what weight savings can be obtained. 
People have almost always made the mistake of conflating safety with weight 
or comfort with weight or reliability with weight. If you read Henry Ford's 
biography, he talks about this quite a bit, and one of the greatest things 
he accomplished for breaking that conventional trade-off was to use 
lighter, yet stronger steel alloys. The cars got lighter, they became more 
reliable, less expensive to operate, etc. Much the same thing happened when 
people started drawing lightweight steel tubes for bicycles – using 
heavier-walled gas pipe does nothing to help your bike be more enjoyable, 
comfortable, or reliable. Same with pneumatic tires – lighter weight, more 
comfort than solid rubber tires. 

So, let's consider the extra weight carried by some of the "comfort / 
utility" driven components and decide if it's worth it... Some ballpark 
numbers, give or take: 

Kickstand – 0.5 lb to take it off – I rarely find kickstands increasing my 
enjoyment of cycling. 
Tires – 0.3 lbs for lighter (35 mm) tires – lightweight tires *can* be more 
comfortable and faster rolling!
Dyno – 0.6 lb to switch to regular front hub – hey, 3-10 watt savings in 
drag right there! 
Lights – 0.5 lb to switch to battery powered LEDs – same brightness, less 
weight, less bulk, occasional charging, why not? 
Bars – 0.5 lb to switch to lighter (e.g., straight bar) – some people find 
non-sweepy bars more comfortable, believe it or not! 
Saddle – 1 lb to switch to modern plastic / carbon saddle – some modern 
saddles are remarkably good! 
Seatpost – 0.25 lb for lighter options – as long as it doesn't brake and 
puts your saddle in the right position... 
Cranks – 0.5-1 lb to switch to lighter crank & bb (e.g., SRAM Red) – it 
just works. 
Cassette & Derailleur – 0.5-1 lb differential for some combos – lighter 
bike, now you can pedal bigger gears for those hills! 
Everything else on a "diet" (brakes, headset, bell, skewers, levers, 
shifters, etc.) can be futzed with to get another pound. 

So, I think you can get things lighter weight, down to about 24 lbs, with 
those substitutions, and it wouldn't even cost you any net extra, if you 
sell the items you substitute – may even come out cash positive. William 
Lindsey has a thread about making his Legolas sub-20 lbs with conventional 
components. The only real difference from his build and what the above 
substitutions would produce is that the Legolas frame & fork & stem combo 
would shave ~2-3 lbs more of yours. 

But just having lighter and skinnier tires will make it feel a lot 
sprightlier. 

- Max "going fast is also fun!" in A2

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 6:41:38 PM UTC-4 Roberta wrote:

> Jason,
>
> I often wonder how much of my lightening up project (I only did what was 
> practical) that brought me so much more joy in riding was that I got better 
> rims and tires, so the bike just rode better.  Many people in my original 
> thread pointed that out.  I'm still glad I did the full project, but none 
> of us here are weight weenies--we ride Rivs, happily, after all.  
>
> Roberta
>
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 5:49:06 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Very nice!  I had the same thing happen with the Nitto parts bin :) 
>>
>> Weight plays a surprisingly small part of the experience of riding a 
>> lighter bike. Most of the benefit of the lighter tubing is how it performs 
>> due to the thinner wall thickness (resulting in a "snappy" feel from light 
>> flexing), and the geometry differences between the two. The few ounces 
>> saved in the process are quite secondary. 
>>
>> That said, the same logic tends to apply to other parts - even though the 
>> mass difference might not do a lot by itself, it can result in a quicker 
>> action (ie a derailleur with less inertia to its moving parts) or better 
>> feel (ie less rotating mass in your wheels, reducing the gyroscopic effects 
>> fighting your steering input) 
>>
>> On Tuesday, 26 July 2022 at 04:45:30 UTC-7 Steve Cole wrote:
>>
>>> Deepak,
>>> What a wonderful ride.  I have both a Homer (Toyo) and an Atlantis 
>>> (MIT).  I love them both.  First, I wonder whether the under-25 pounds 
>>> figures you have seen are for Toyo (1st gen) or Waterford (2nd gen) Homers. 

Re: [RBW] Homer 6 months review and questions

[atreya...@gmail.com]

Thanks Brendonoid. I agree! Brooks saddle, brass bell and  kickstands makes 
the bike so much more fun and useful.  Though I am not using the dyno nmuch 
I think I will leave it alone. It always there when I need it

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 2:19:01 AM UTC-7 brendonoid wrote:

> Your Homer looks perfect and I would second everything that Roberta has 
> just said.
> Looking at your build in that photo the only things you could lose weight 
> on are all utility comfort things. 
> The saddle, Dyno, kickstand and brass bell are all weight saving 
> opportunities but also things that I personally would consider 'worth the 
> weight'.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Homer 6 months review and questions

[atreya...@gmail.com]

Thanks Roberta. That was a very interesting read. How convinent are those 
kick stands? 

PS: I have choco moose on my Atlantis. I love them! It introduced me to 
chocos and I think they are my # favorites right now. But I am thinking of 
swapping to regular chocos as they dont play well with my stem bag. 


On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 1:55:04 AM UTC-7 Roberta wrote:

> Deepak,
>
> Congratulations on your Homer/Atlantis combo. I had a Homer/Appaloosa 
> combo, with nearly the same setup (and same order of ownership), size and 
> impressions as as you. I think these two bikes complement each other well.  I 
> even did the lightening up process. I’m glad I did because it helped both 
> bikes ride better, yet still different from each other. Love the dynamo 
> lights and tubeless.  I rode both bikes equally.  You can read about it 
> here:
>
> https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/pWpMrkiVUlk/m/eVByOom6CQAJ 
>  
>
> The only thing I changed after the project was that I put the original 
> choco moose handlebar back on th Appa, as that bar was the perfect bar for 
> me on that bike. 
>
> I’m still in love with my lively riding Homer but sold the Appaloosa to 
> have room for a Platypus. The decision to sell the Appaloosa rather than 
> Homer was that I don’t ride off-road or tour, not that I didn’t like it’s 
> smooth buttery ride. 
>
> Btw, bikes can lose a lot of weight for free with lighter saddles, smaller 
> bags, lighter or no fenders and racks. I have a 1.25 lb vs Nitto 2.5 lb 
> rack. I changed Flyer for Selle Anatomica. Banana sac vs Carradice bag. 
> Some items are worth the weight, like your  aforementioned kickstand—so 
> darn practical. 
>
> Roberta
>
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 12:15:22 AM UTC-4 atreya...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Here is pic from my evening ride today :-)
>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>
>> Cheers ,
>> Deepak
>>
>> On Jul 25, 2022, at 21:14, atreya...@gmail.com  
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> I have had my homer for 6 months . After lot of experimenting , obsessing 
>> qnd tweaking i am almost 99% there ( in the process I have a mini nitto 
>> shop with almost all variations of handlebars !which I will try to find a 
>> good home for when I get  to it ) . The more I tweak and better it 
>> gets,  more I obsesss , funny how that works !
>>
>> I love this bike ! It is super comfortable but yet super responsive in 
>> handling . I am invariably smiling and instantly in a good mood every time 
>> I ride it even if just for 10 minutes! 
>>
>> It feels super nimble and responsive compared to my Atlantis ( which is 
>> my first love and forever bike for different reasons ) and want to further 
>> differentiate between the two .So this brings me to my question 
>>
>>1. Compared to my Atlantis it weighs just 4 lbs less (28 vs 32 ) . 
>>How much of this handling difference is due to weight compared geometry 
>> and 
>>tubing stiffness ? I am also pretty light weight between 160-165 lbs so 
>>might be little more sensitive to weight changes on bike . 
>>2. If it’s weight ? Is it worth to chase some more weight savings ? I 
>>want to set it up as lightweight go around town for fun type of bike 
>> while 
>>Atlantis would do longer touring/hauling , trails etc. I am surprised 
>> when 
>>I see numbers close to 25lb or under . I have no racks or fenders , so 
>>where can those weight saving come from ? I am not willing to sacrifice 
>>comfort ( pedals and leather saddle ) and definitely not my kick stand 
>> :-) 
>>. Below is my current set up 
>>
>> Size : 54.5 
>>
>> Wheels : pacenti brevet with son28 dynamo and 
>>
>> Tires : RH squanomie pass standard (tubeless)
>>
>> Shimano hub ( I have realized the use case for dynamo for my riding is 
>> pretty limited so wouldn’t mind losing it ) .
>>
>> Crank : silver cranks 42-28 
>>
>> Brake set up : Paul racers and canti levers
>>
>> Cock pit : albatross bar , nitto talux stem .
>>
>>
>> Appreciate your thoughts !
>>
>>  
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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[RBW] FS- Nitto Handlebar, stems and seat post

[atreya...@gmail.com]

Hi,

I am clearing my stack of handlebars , stems and posts  and hoping to find 
a good home for these. I finally settled on handlebars and stems that I 
like. The price doesn’t include shipping. I am based out of *Danville, CA* 
if anyone is interested in local pick up. Handlebars might have some minor 
scuff from install and bar tape residue that I can clean up before 
shipping. Happy to send photos if interested, PM me

 

Handlebars

   1. Nitto Bosco - 55 CM CroMo : $60 (Installed and used less than 10 
   miles) 
   2. Nitto Bull bar - 70 * 31.8  : $100 (Installed and used less than 10 
   miles) 
   3. Nitto Losco - 54 CM * 25.4: $90 (Installed and used less than 50 
   miles) 
   4. Passchier Gump Bambo - 760 *31.8  : $200  Installed and used less 
   than 10 miles) - very nice and comfy , really absorbs tiny vibrations of 
   road but the sweep didn’t work for me. I have realized I like sweeps 
   similar to choco. Read bike snobs review here (
   https://bikesnobnyc.com/2022/01/13/bamboo-you/) 
   5. Nitto Choco Moose - $180 :  (Installed and used less than 50 miles). 
   Currently on my Atlantis. I love this ! And what actually introduced me to 
   Choco which I think I really like, but doesn’t work with my stem bag. Using 
   the funds from sale to switch to regular Choco 
   6. Nitto Albatross - $60 : My second favorite, currently on my homer .  
   Using funds to switch to choco. Most used may be 700 miles. Scuffs from 
   install and brake lever swaps but functions as it should. 
   7. Nitto M151  46 * 26.0  - $50: Functionally similar to Noodle but 
   shorter reach. (installed and used less than 50 miles) 

 

Stem 

 

   1. Nitto Tallux 70 mm *26.0 - $60 (Installed and used less than 10 miles) 
   2. Nitto Tallux 50 mm *26.0 - $60 (Installed and used less than 10 miles) 
   3. Nitto Tallux 120 Mm * 26.0 - $60 (Installed and used less than 50 
   miles) 

 

Seatpost

Nitto S92 Zero Setback seat post $80  -(Installed and used less than 10 
miles)

 

Brake Lever

 

Gran Compe Brake Lever Set GC202H Brown Hood - $50 (Installed and used less 
than 10 miles)

 

Rack 

Soma Rack Champs-Elysees Stainless Rear - $100 (Installed and used less 
than 50 miles)

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Re: [RBW] Roadini vs San Marcos

[Karl Wilcox]

I have both the Roadini and the San Marcos.  They are essentially the same
frame in terms of design.  The only difference is that the San Marcos can
take 38c tires, and my 2018 Roadini only accommodates 35's.  The San Marcos
in my size also has the double top tube.  I actually think that the Roadini
is just slightly stiffer (less compliant).  Owning both of these frames is
probably redundant, but I use the San Marcos for gravel/dirt rides and long
endurance stuff (brevets), and I have the Roadini set up to be a light and
fast club bike.  I would say that the Roadini is less compliant when riding
fast and hard whereas the San Marcos is just too compliant when trying to
stay with the fast group on steep hills and out of the saddle (rear end
flexes rather alot, but, then, I am 6'6" tall and 205 lbs).  I guess you
could say that the Roadini is the frame for riding fast/hard as compared to
the San Marcos.

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 5:23 PM zem...@gmail.com  wrote:

> I have been happily riding my San Marcos for a few years but have always
> been curious about the Roadini. Has anyone ever had the pleasure of riding
> both, and could comment on the differences? I'm considering going for one
> in the upcoming presale.
>
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> .
>

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[RBW] Re: Which Dyno Hub?

[Jason Glenn]

Thanks, all.  This was super helpful and informative.

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 2:46:12 PM UTC-7 samwe...@gmail.com wrote:

> I got a wheel built by Peter White last year, and we discussed my use 
> cases, which sound similar to yours, on the phone. He said the only reason 
> to get a SON was if I was commuting rain or shine in a cold, wet 
> environment, and otherwise the Shimano or Panasonic (who not-so-long-ago 
> bought out a production facility that had previously been branded Sanyo, I 
> believe) will cut the mustard. I had a 6-bolt disc that I wanted to use, so 
> I went with the Panasonic instead of Shimano, and it's been everything I 
> hoped for. Only a few hundred miles on it so far, but it sounds consistent 
> with what others have said, and I'm happy with the >$100 I saved.
>
> -Sam
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 2:59:47 AM UTC-4 jkg...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hi, all,
>>
>> I've never had a bike with a dyno hub but rode one a few months back -- 
>> thanks, Max! -- and have decided to build up a wheel -- my first wheel 
>> build, too -- with one for an Atlantis.  I know the Son 28 is the go to, 
>> and I could be convinced to use one, but I'm working on a limited budget 
>> and am wondering what people think about the alternatives out there.  My 
>> main use for the Atlantis, at least at the moment, will be commuting, 
>> running erands, etc., but I'm trying to bike as my principle form of 
>> transportation (in Los Angeles) and will be riding in the evenings and 
>> early mornings with some regularity.  Down the road, I would like to do 
>> some touring on it.
>>
>> Anyway, I'm interested in any and all suggestions/perspectives.  
>>
>> Thanks, in advance,
>> jason
>>
>> P.s. While I'm at it, happy to hear about favorite rims and spokes for 
>> the build...
>>
>

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[RBW] Roadini vs San Marcos

[zem...@gmail.com]

I have been happily riding my San Marcos for a few years but have always 
been curious about the Roadini. Has anyone ever had the pleasure of riding 
both, and could comment on the differences? I'm considering going for one 
in the upcoming presale.

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Re: [RBW] Homer 6 months review and questions

[Roberta]

Jason,

I often wonder how much of my lightening up project (I only did what was 
practical) that brought me so much more joy in riding was that I got better 
rims and tires, so the bike just rode better.  Many people in my original 
thread pointed that out.  I'm still glad I did the full project, but none 
of us here are weight weenies--we ride Rivs, happily, after all.  

Roberta

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 5:49:06 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Very nice!  I had the same thing happen with the Nitto parts bin :) 
>
> Weight plays a surprisingly small part of the experience of riding a 
> lighter bike. Most of the benefit of the lighter tubing is how it performs 
> due to the thinner wall thickness (resulting in a "snappy" feel from light 
> flexing), and the geometry differences between the two. The few ounces 
> saved in the process are quite secondary. 
>
> That said, the same logic tends to apply to other parts - even though the 
> mass difference might not do a lot by itself, it can result in a quicker 
> action (ie a derailleur with less inertia to its moving parts) or better 
> feel (ie less rotating mass in your wheels, reducing the gyroscopic effects 
> fighting your steering input) 
>
> On Tuesday, 26 July 2022 at 04:45:30 UTC-7 Steve Cole wrote:
>
>> Deepak,
>> What a wonderful ride.  I have both a Homer (Toyo) and an Atlantis (MIT). 
>>  I love them both.  First, I wonder whether the under-25 pounds figures you 
>> have seen are for Toyo (1st gen) or Waterford (2nd gen) Homers.  They had 
>> different geometry and used different tubes that may explain the gap 
>> between your 28# and the 25# yo've seen.  
>>
>> Second, I often think about replying to questions about how one might cut 
>> the weight of their bike but have never replied.  I strongly believe how 
>> one builds their bike, the components they select, should reflect its 
>> intended primary use.  If going as fast as you can (e.g., racing) is 
>> paramount, cutting weight without sacrificing strength, handling or safety 
>> is sensible.  On the other hand, as is the case for me, if you ride for 
>> exercise, fun and health, I can't think of a good reason to look for ways 
>> to pare the bike's weight.  How much bike/rider weight you push around, as 
>> Grant Peterson has noted, is mostly a reflection of the rider's weight even 
>> in your case. In addition, pushing around a  25# bike is a weight savings 
>> to you of only about 1.5% of total (bike+rider) weight.  While this is 
>> pretty negligible, the added weight should be better for health, strength, 
>> stamina, etc.  Not much better, I admit, but this thinking has stopped me 
>> from focusing on weight and not the joy of riding.
>>
>> I don't know whether this is any help. I hope so.
>> Steve Cole
>> Arlington, Virginia
>>
>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 5:19:01 AM UTC-4 brendonoid wrote:
>>
>>> Your Homer looks perfect and I would second everything that Roberta has 
>>> just said.
>>> Looking at your build in that photo the only things you could lose 
>>> weight on are all utility comfort things. 
>>> The saddle, Dyno, kickstand and brass bell are all weight saving 
>>> opportunities but also things that I personally would consider 'worth the 
>>> weight'.
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Homer 6 months review and questions

[Jason Fuller]

Very nice!  I had the same thing happen with the Nitto parts bin :) 

Weight plays a surprisingly small part of the experience of riding a 
lighter bike. Most of the benefit of the lighter tubing is how it performs 
due to the thinner wall thickness (resulting in a "snappy" feel from light 
flexing), and the geometry differences between the two. The few ounces 
saved in the process are quite secondary. 

That said, the same logic tends to apply to other parts - even though the 
mass difference might not do a lot by itself, it can result in a quicker 
action (ie a derailleur with less inertia to its moving parts) or better 
feel (ie less rotating mass in your wheels, reducing the gyroscopic effects 
fighting your steering input) 

On Tuesday, 26 July 2022 at 04:45:30 UTC-7 Steve Cole wrote:

> Deepak,
> What a wonderful ride.  I have both a Homer (Toyo) and an Atlantis (MIT). 
>  I love them both.  First, I wonder whether the under-25 pounds figures you 
> have seen are for Toyo (1st gen) or Waterford (2nd gen) Homers.  They had 
> different geometry and used different tubes that may explain the gap 
> between your 28# and the 25# yo've seen.  
>
> Second, I often think about replying to questions about how one might cut 
> the weight of their bike but have never replied.  I strongly believe how 
> one builds their bike, the components they select, should reflect its 
> intended primary use.  If going as fast as you can (e.g., racing) is 
> paramount, cutting weight without sacrificing strength, handling or safety 
> is sensible.  On the other hand, as is the case for me, if you ride for 
> exercise, fun and health, I can't think of a good reason to look for ways 
> to pare the bike's weight.  How much bike/rider weight you push around, as 
> Grant Peterson has noted, is mostly a reflection of the rider's weight even 
> in your case. In addition, pushing around a  25# bike is a weight savings 
> to you of only about 1.5% of total (bike+rider) weight.  While this is 
> pretty negligible, the added weight should be better for health, strength, 
> stamina, etc.  Not much better, I admit, but this thinking has stopped me 
> from focusing on weight and not the joy of riding.
>
> I don't know whether this is any help. I hope so.
> Steve Cole
> Arlington, Virginia
>
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 5:19:01 AM UTC-4 brendonoid wrote:
>
>> Your Homer looks perfect and I would second everything that Roberta has 
>> just said.
>> Looking at your build in that photo the only things you could lose weight 
>> on are all utility comfort things. 
>> The saddle, Dyno, kickstand and brass bell are all weight saving 
>> opportunities but also things that I personally would consider 'worth the 
>> weight'.
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Which Dyno Hub?

[Sam McDermott]

I got a wheel built by Peter White last year, and we discussed my use 
cases, which sound similar to yours, on the phone. He said the only reason 
to get a SON was if I was commuting rain or shine in a cold, wet 
environment, and otherwise the Shimano or Panasonic (who not-so-long-ago 
bought out a production facility that had previously been branded Sanyo, I 
believe) will cut the mustard. I had a 6-bolt disc that I wanted to use, so 
I went with the Panasonic instead of Shimano, and it's been everything I 
hoped for. Only a few hundred miles on it so far, but it sounds consistent 
with what others have said, and I'm happy with the >$100 I saved.

-Sam
On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 2:59:47 AM UTC-4 jkg...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi, all,
>
> I've never had a bike with a dyno hub but rode one a few months back -- 
> thanks, Max! -- and have decided to build up a wheel -- my first wheel 
> build, too -- with one for an Atlantis.  I know the Son 28 is the go to, 
> and I could be convinced to use one, but I'm working on a limited budget 
> and am wondering what people think about the alternatives out there.  My 
> main use for the Atlantis, at least at the moment, will be commuting, 
> running erands, etc., but I'm trying to bike as my principle form of 
> transportation (in Los Angeles) and will be riding in the evenings and 
> early mornings with some regularity.  Down the road, I would like to do 
> some touring on it.
>
> Anyway, I'm interested in any and all suggestions/perspectives.  
>
> Thanks, in advance,
> jason
>
> P.s. While I'm at it, happy to hear about favorite rims and spokes for the 
> build...
>

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[RBW] Re: High bars at a club ride

[Joe Bernard]

What the dropbar riders would tell you is they have the option of that 
higher position plus a lower one. Which is fair if you're going to use it, 
but in all my years of riding drops I hardly ever did. Gimme my Billies! 

Joe "upright and catching wind as the Good Lord intended" Bernard

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 4:29:03 AM UTC-7 Marc Irwin wrote:

> It was a normal Monday night ride with the Kalamazoo Bicycle Club.  A 
> typical group was riding 15-16 MPH for 25 or so miles.  A good bunch of 
> people in biking regalia on their over the counter crotch rockets with drop 
> bars, except for me and Leah Peterson on our Rivendells. with upright 
> bars.In the lousy cell phone shot I took from the back of the group, 
> Leah is the second white helmet from from the front left.  Notice her 
> posture compared to the body position of all the riders on their drop bars.
> [image: high bars.jpg]
> It was that way the whole ride. Most club riders assume their drop bars 
> make them faster, after all, EVERYBODY uses them right?  
>
> Marc
>

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[RBW] Re: High bars at a club ride

[Ryan]

Not really , basis Marc's photo. Unless he'd pointed it out I wouldn't have 
been able to tell it was you basis body position. You 2 are riding much 
nicer bikes IMO. But, admittedly, most modern road bikes by major 
manufacturers don't do a lot for me. But that's me and YMMV.  Not dissing 
anyone who rides them. On the rare occasions that I ride my old Riv road 
which does have drop bars, I am on the hoods or just behind; sometimes on 
the top , and very rarely in the drops. Bars are more or less level with 
the saddle. And admittedly, the ergonomics are much better after replacing 
older Campy Super Record brakes and levers with Grand Cru brakes and those 
funky TRP road levers. 

But  since 1993 my bar of choice is the elegant but certainly polarizing 
moustache bar. Which almost certainly would have replaced the drops on my 
road bike had I not stumbled on TRP and Velo-Orange Grand Cru.



On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 2:46:14 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Well, of course everyone should ride what they prefer to ride. Just Ride, 
> and all that jazz, and love your bike and stuff.
>
> I think what Marc is saying is that it just seems ironic. We both feel it 
> is our handlebars that make the roadies look askance at us. Something about 
> swept-back bars says “not serious” to the other riders in a club ride. But 
> truthfully, they are sitting upright on the tops of their drop bars about 
> as tall as I am, so is there really a huge difference? 
>
> I mean, it’s a fair question…
>
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 7:29:03 AM UTC-4 Marc Irwin wrote:
>
>> It was a normal Monday night ride with the Kalamazoo Bicycle Club.  A 
>> typical group was riding 15-16 MPH for 25 or so miles.  A good bunch of 
>> people in biking regalia on their over the counter crotch rockets with drop 
>> bars, except for me and Leah Peterson on our Rivendells. with upright 
>> bars.In the lousy cell phone shot I took from the back of the group, 
>> Leah is the second white helmet from from the front left.  Notice her 
>> posture compared to the body position of all the riders on their drop bars.
>> [image: high bars.jpg]
>> It was that way the whole ride. Most club riders assume their drop bars 
>> make them faster, after all, EVERYBODY uses them right?  
>>
>> Marc
>>
>

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[RBW] FS: Wool jerseys, rapid rise mech, XT v-brakes, etc.

[Eric Marth]

 

Cross-posted to RBW and iBOB. 

I have a few things for sale. Prices do not include shipping. I’ll 
calculate shipping based on weight and mailing from me in 22401 to you. If 
something strikes you I am open to offers, especially if bundling! 

Payment via PayPal Friends & Family. Please contact me off list. Thanks!

Pictures are here. 

 

01. Protogs wool jersey — $50
This is labeled a size large, 100% wool jersey. Let’s call it normal 
weight. Three pockets with buttons in the back. Some small flecks of 
discoloration across the front, some stains at front and back as shown. 
Made in USA. Pit to pit is 16”. Overall length is 29”. 

02. Protogs wool jersey — $50 
Another yellow Protogs jersey, all wool. Also labeled a large. Lighter 
weight wool than jersey #1. Two small pinholes in the left sleeve, small 
hole near the middle pocket at the rear. No stains or discoloration. 
Machine washable Superwash wool.  Pit to pit is 16”. Overall length is 29”. 

03. SR Laprade seatpost, 26.8 — $40
Vintage seatpost with great paint and patina. 

04. Shimano XTR M951 rear derailer, rapid rise — $25
I purchased this recently and found the cage appears to be bent and does 
not align with the cassette. If you would like to try your hand at bending 
the cage here’s your chance! Medium cage. I believe Eben Weiss has this 
same derailer on one of his Rivendells and Grant gave it to him, FWIW. 

05. Shimano Deore FD M618 — $25
This came off of my 2021 Riv-built Appaloosa and was used for about a year. 

06. Shimano XT Deore V-brakes. BR-M739. One bikesworth — $75
Dust boots included but not pictured. 

07. Outer Shell stem caddy — $40
Great condition, some surface dirt, nbd. Nylon straps have been trimmed and 
cuts melted. Long velcro stabilizer loop included (uncut). 

08. Suntour Sprint downtube shifters — $15
The classic shifters that the Riv Silver V1s are based on. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: High bars at a club ride

[John Moore]

I’m a strong advocate of just enjoy the ride and the more people I see getting 
out on their bikes the better as good Ol’Mother Earth needs all the help we can 
give her. 

Here in Boston, there is a dramatic difference in the number of people I know 
see out and about on bikes compared to a decade ago, and the decade before 
that. All good. 

That being said, I’m a tried and true “roadie” that use to race in my home 
state of Colorado and more recently here in  New England area and have always 
ridden drop bar bikes. I’m on the hoods a good part of most rides but I also 
have about an 11-12cm drop from saddle to top of bars, so yes, it is lower and 
I find more efficient for that type of riding. 

Am downshifting to a certain degree with an Atlantis that will likely have 
Tosco bars. This will be for a different style of riding, more touring and 
stopping to smell the roses. 

But I’ll be keeping those road bikes as well as sometimes I just love the feel 
and handling of them. 

All bikes and bike configurations are good as long as they get ridden and not 
collecting dust. 

> On Jul 26, 2022, at 3:46 PM, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>  wrote:
> 
> Well, of course everyone should ride what they prefer to ride. Just Ride, 
> and all that jazz, and love your bike and stuff.
> 
> I think what Marc is saying is that it just seems ironic. We both feel it is 
> our handlebars that make the roadies look askance at us. Something about 
> swept-back bars says “not serious” to the other riders in a club ride. But 
> truthfully, they are sitting upright on the tops of their drop bars about as 
> tall as I am, so is there really a huge difference? 
> 
> I mean, it’s a fair question…
> 
>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 7:29:03 AM UTC-4 Marc Irwin wrote:
>> It was a normal Monday night ride with the Kalamazoo Bicycle Club.  A 
>> typical group was riding 15-16 MPH for 25 or so miles.  A good bunch of 
>> people in biking regalia on their over the counter crotch rockets with drop 
>> bars, except for me and Leah Peterson on our Rivendells. with upright bars.  
>>   In the lousy cell phone shot I took from the back of the group, Leah is 
>> the second white helmet from from the front left.  Notice her posture 
>> compared to the body position of all the riders on their drop bars.
>> 
>> It was that way the whole ride. Most club riders assume their drop bars make 
>> them faster, after all, EVERYBODY uses them right?  
>> 
>> Marc
> 
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[RBW] Re: High bars at a club ride

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Well, of course everyone should ride what they prefer to ride. Just Ride, 
and all that jazz, and love your bike and stuff.

I think what Marc is saying is that it just seems ironic. We both feel it 
is our handlebars that make the roadies look askance at us. Something about 
swept-back bars says “not serious” to the other riders in a club ride. But 
truthfully, they are sitting upright on the tops of their drop bars about 
as tall as I am, so is there really a huge difference? 

I mean, it’s a fair question…

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 7:29:03 AM UTC-4 Marc Irwin wrote:

> It was a normal Monday night ride with the Kalamazoo Bicycle Club.  A 
> typical group was riding 15-16 MPH for 25 or so miles.  A good bunch of 
> people in biking regalia on their over the counter crotch rockets with drop 
> bars, except for me and Leah Peterson on our Rivendells. with upright 
> bars.In the lousy cell phone shot I took from the back of the group, 
> Leah is the second white helmet from from the front left.  Notice her 
> posture compared to the body position of all the riders on their drop bars.
> [image: high bars.jpg]
> It was that way the whole ride. Most club riders assume their drop bars 
> make them faster, after all, EVERYBODY uses them right?  
>
> Marc
>

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[RBW] Items for Sale

[tdusky]

 

I am doing a 650B conversion and need funds.  everything is in excellent 
condition.

Ask for photos or more information

Brooks Professional Saddle 1971, $70 excellent condition 

Campy Nuvo Record brake calipers. Standard reach, nutted. $80

Campy Nuvo Record brake calipers. Short reach, recessed. $80

Phil Wood 135mm rear hub 36 hole Shimano compatible excellent condition $175

Phil Wood 120mm rear hub 36 hole good condition $75

Shimano Deore Xt front hub 36 hole $20

American Classic 130mm rear hub freewheel 28 hole (smooth) $10

Campagnolo Centaur Century Gray Triple Crankset * 175mm * 50/40/30 NOS $60

Nitto Pearl Stem 70 mm 22.2 mm 26 mm $35

Nitto Technomic Stem 80 mm  22.2 mm 26 mm $30

Tarptent Contrail ultralight tent 1p 3 season  $100

Honjo fenders 700c Hammered 37mm wide With hardware front leather mudflap 
and rear light, good for tires up to 28mm $50

Shimano front derailleur 31.8mm clamp bottom pull NOS $15

Shimano dura ace PD-7401 look compatible pedals $25

1972 Lygie, 65 cm frame Reynolds 531 DB with Campy Super Record Headset 
installed $275

Ask for photos or more information Shipping from Huntington Woods MI

Thanks for looking

Tom Dusky

Huntington Woods MI

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Re: [RBW] High bars at a club ride

[Wesley]

Agree with Bones. Everyone should ride the bike that makes them happiest, 
but based on my experience experimenting with all different kinds of bars, 
I can''t imagine that every single roadie would prefer drop bars if they 
gave other options a chance.
-W

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 6:09:20 AM UTC-7 Bones wrote:

> I think that's the whole point. Drop bars are the only option on many over 
> the counter crotch rockets. Many people are not aware of the "endless 
> way(s) to ride." 
>
> Bones
>
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 8:52:55 AM UTC-4 jo...@chilmarkresearch.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Garth, couldn’t have said it better myself.
>> Whatever works for YOU is all that counts…
>> …though I have been known to give pointers to relatively new riders on 
>> form, cadence, gearing etiquette, etc. to help them maintain pace in a 
>> paceline. 
>>
>> Johnnysmooth 
>>
>> On Jul 26, 2022, at 8:44 AM, Garth  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> I've ridden many a mile and raced with quite low drops bars. I've ridden 
>> many a mile with with quite high Albatross bars. 
>>
>> I've ridden many a mile with "regular/street" clothes. I've ridden many a 
>> mile with "cycling specific" clothes. 
>>
>> Day/night/up/down and all around . 
>>
>> Who/what is to say one "position/way" is better than any other ?
>>
>> That "who/what" is but the given position trying to justify itself !  
>>  Not the rider, the one riding. These "positions" take many forms, be it 
>> formations of size and shape or thoughts/opinions/attitudes inwards and 
>> outwards towards "others". Sometimes the rider seems to "lose themselves" 
>> in these "positions" and seem to believe they ARE the "position". They are 
>> not, ever. One is not "what they say", One is That They IS" .BEING !  
>> ((( laughing ))) 
>>
>> Such is the "egomania" of such "positions" !  ((( laughing heartily ))) 
>> Always seeking validation, a pat on the ol' back, a status up high or even 
>> down low... and a ho-ho-ho !
>>
>>  
>> Nevertheless There's endless way to ride !  As you ride 'em all you 
>> clealy see that they all have thier place/time/space/etc, that there is no 
>> valid basis for comparing/raising/lowering one to any "other" one as there 
>> is only The-One-ALL . This Presence called "Here/Now/This/The-IS" ! 
>>
>> Just Ride sunshine ! 
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Which Dyno Hub?

[Wesley]

I'm using a Shimano dyno that I bought off this list for like $50 - it's 
great! I didn't notice a difference from a non-dyno hub to this one, and so 
I can't imagine noticing the difference if I switched to a SON. Mine is one 
of the N72 that looks asymmetrical (all the dyno parts are on one side of 
the hub).
-W

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 8:59:14 AM UTC-7 campyo...@me.com wrote:

> I’ve been running my Velogical with an Edelux II headlight for several 
> years, with no ill effects.
>
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com
> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
>
> On Jul 26, 2022, at 8:57 AM, Brian Turner  wrote:
>
> I recall reading on Peter White's site that you should be careful mixing 
> velogical dynos with certain lights depending on their requirements. He 
> specifically mentioned the Edelux and Edelux II as being ones you 
> *shouldn't use with velogical, or other experimental dyno generators.
>
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 11:51:06 AM UTC-4 jkg...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Thanks, everyone, for your informative responses.  As Eric said, lots to 
>> think about.
>>
>> Intrigued by the Velogical dynamo for my homer, since I have a wheelset 
>> for it already.  Since I need to build wheels for the Atlantis, I have a 
>> sense that the dyno hub might make more sense, although I gather that 
>> there's a case to be made that there's still a case to be made for the 
>> Velogical in that case too -- just spent a few minutes on their website, 
>> and it looks like an interesting product.  Again, lots to consider.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 8:19:02 AM UTC-7 campyo...@me.com wrote:
>>
>>> Jason:
>>>
>>> You’ll hear many opinions—good luck sifting through the advice you will 
>>> get!
>>>
>>> I have both SON and Shutter Precision hubs and have not had any issues 
>>> with either. My SONs have ranged from the old-style type with flanges 
>>> pressed onto a center piece to the modern (and very pretty) type. I have 
>>> several variations of the SP hubs on various bikes.
>>>
>>> If money is no object, definitely go with SON, if only because they’re 
>>> so darn pretty. SP will perform just as well—I have not experienced the 
>>> “roughness” that one other respondent reported.
>>>
>>> Based on what I’ve read about SON and their weather sealing, the biggest 
>>> advantage that I know of is that they are pressure compensated; SP hubs are 
>>> not. That means that if you go from a warm, dry environment directly into a 
>>> cold and dry one, the SON hubs won’t draw in moisture as the air inside the 
>>> hub cools. SP hubs might, but for this to be a problem, you would have to 
>>> roll right out into a cold downpour. That’s an edge case for me and 
>>> something that has never been a problem.
>>>
>>> Finally … Have you considered the Velogical dynamo? I have one on an 
>>> Alex Singer, and it’s great. Pros: Cheaper than a dyno hub and wheel, very 
>>> low draw, ZERO drag in the “off” position, great German engineering, works 
>>> with any wheel. Cons: Sits outside on the frame, where it might be subject 
>>> to damage (not a problem for me in several years of use), makes a quiet 
>>> whirring noise when running, requires a small clamp to attach to the frame.
>>>
>>> --Eric Norris
>>> campyo...@me.com
>>> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
>>> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
>>>
>>> On Jul 25, 2022, at 11:59 PM, Jason Glenn  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi, all,
>>>
>>> I've never had a bike with a dyno hub but rode one a few months back -- 
>>> thanks, Max! -- and have decided to build up a wheel -- my first wheel 
>>> build, too -- with one for an Atlantis.  I know the Son 28 is the go to, 
>>> and I could be convinced to use one, but I'm working on a limited budget 
>>> and am wondering what people think about the alternatives out there.  My 
>>> main use for the Atlantis, at least at the moment, will be commuting, 
>>> running erands, etc., but I'm trying to bike as my principle form of 
>>> transportation (in Los Angeles) and will be riding in the evenings and 
>>> early mornings with some regularity.  Down the road, I would like to do 
>>> some touring on it.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I'm interested in any and all suggestions/perspectives.  
>>>
>>> Thanks, in advance,
>>> jason
>>>
>>> P.s. While I'm at it, happy to hear about favorite rims and spokes for 
>>> the build...
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a069839b-49c0-4e8f-bfb5-000f0ee9255cn%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the 

Re: [RBW] Which Dyno Hub?

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I’ve been running my Velogical with an Edelux II headlight for several years, 
with no ill effects.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 

> On Jul 26, 2022, at 8:57 AM, Brian Turner  wrote:
> 
> I recall reading on Peter White's site that you should be careful mixing 
> velogical dynos with certain lights depending on their requirements. He 
> specifically mentioned the Edelux and Edelux II as being ones you *shouldn't 
> use with velogical, or other experimental dyno generators.
> 
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 11:51:06 AM UTC-4 jkg...@gmail.com 
>  wrote:
> Thanks, everyone, for your informative responses.  As Eric said, lots to 
> think about.
> 
> Intrigued by the Velogical dynamo for my homer, since I have a wheelset for 
> it already.  Since I need to build wheels for the Atlantis, I have a sense 
> that the dyno hub might make more sense, although I gather that there's a 
> case to be made that there's still a case to be made for the Velogical in 
> that case too -- just spent a few minutes on their website, and it looks like 
> an interesting product.  Again, lots to consider.
> 
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 8:19:02 AM UTC-7 campyo...@me.com 
>  wrote:
> Jason:
> 
> You’ll hear many opinions—good luck sifting through the advice you will get!
> 
> I have both SON and Shutter Precision hubs and have not had any issues with 
> either. My SONs have ranged from the old-style type with flanges pressed onto 
> a center piece to the modern (and very pretty) type. I have several 
> variations of the SP hubs on various bikes.
> 
> If money is no object, definitely go with SON, if only because they’re so 
> darn pretty. SP will perform just as well—I have not experienced the 
> “roughness” that one other respondent reported.
> 
> Based on what I’ve read about SON and their weather sealing, the biggest 
> advantage that I know of is that they are pressure compensated; SP hubs are 
> not. That means that if you go from a warm, dry environment directly into a 
> cold and dry one, the SON hubs won’t draw in moisture as the air inside the 
> hub cools. SP hubs might, but for this to be a problem, you would have to 
> roll right out into a cold downpour. That’s an edge case for me and something 
> that has never been a problem.
> 
> Finally … Have you considered the Velogical dynamo? I have one on an Alex 
> Singer, and it’s great. Pros: Cheaper than a dyno hub and wheel, very low 
> draw, ZERO drag in the “off” position, great German engineering, works with 
> any wheel. Cons: Sits outside on the frame, where it might be subject to 
> damage (not a problem for me in several years of use), makes a quiet whirring 
> noise when running, requires a small clamp to attach to the frame.
> 
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com <>
> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 25, 2022, at 11:59 PM, Jason Glenn > wrote:
>> 
> 
>> Hi, all,
>> 
>> I've never had a bike with a dyno hub but rode one a few months back -- 
>> thanks, Max! -- and have decided to build up a wheel -- my first wheel 
>> build, too -- with one for an Atlantis.  I know the Son 28 is the go to, and 
>> I could be convinced to use one, but I'm working on a limited budget and am 
>> wondering what people think about the alternatives out there.  My main use 
>> for the Atlantis, at least at the moment, will be commuting, running erands, 
>> etc., but I'm trying to bike as my principle form of transportation (in Los 
>> Angeles) and will be riding in the evenings and early mornings with some 
>> regularity.  Down the road, I would like to do some touring on it.
>> 
>> Anyway, I'm interested in any and all suggestions/perspectives.  
>> 
>> Thanks, in advance,
>> jason
>> 
>> P.s. While I'm at it, happy to hear about favorite rims and spokes for the 
>> build...
>> 
> 
>> -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com <>.
> 
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a069839b-49c0-4e8f-bfb5-000f0ee9255cn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> .
> 
> 
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>  
> 

Re: [RBW] Which Dyno Hub?

[Brian Turner]

I recall reading on Peter White's site that you should be careful mixing 
velogical dynos with certain lights depending on their requirements. He 
specifically mentioned the Edelux and Edelux II as being ones you 
*shouldn't use with velogical, or other experimental dyno generators.

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 11:51:06 AM UTC-4 jkg...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks, everyone, for your informative responses.  As Eric said, lots to 
> think about.
>
> Intrigued by the Velogical dynamo for my homer, since I have a wheelset 
> for it already.  Since I need to build wheels for the Atlantis, I have a 
> sense that the dyno hub might make more sense, although I gather that 
> there's a case to be made that there's still a case to be made for the 
> Velogical in that case too -- just spent a few minutes on their website, 
> and it looks like an interesting product.  Again, lots to consider.
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 8:19:02 AM UTC-7 campyo...@me.com wrote:
>
>> Jason:
>>
>> You’ll hear many opinions—good luck sifting through the advice you will 
>> get!
>>
>> I have both SON and Shutter Precision hubs and have not had any issues 
>> with either. My SONs have ranged from the old-style type with flanges 
>> pressed onto a center piece to the modern (and very pretty) type. I have 
>> several variations of the SP hubs on various bikes.
>>
>> If money is no object, definitely go with SON, if only because they’re so 
>> darn pretty. SP will perform just as well—I have not experienced the 
>> “roughness” that one other respondent reported.
>>
>> Based on what I’ve read about SON and their weather sealing, the biggest 
>> advantage that I know of is that they are pressure compensated; SP hubs are 
>> not. That means that if you go from a warm, dry environment directly into a 
>> cold and dry one, the SON hubs won’t draw in moisture as the air inside the 
>> hub cools. SP hubs might, but for this to be a problem, you would have to 
>> roll right out into a cold downpour. That’s an edge case for me and 
>> something that has never been a problem.
>>
>> Finally … Have you considered the Velogical dynamo? I have one on an Alex 
>> Singer, and it’s great. Pros: Cheaper than a dyno hub and wheel, very low 
>> draw, ZERO drag in the “off” position, great German engineering, works with 
>> any wheel. Cons: Sits outside on the frame, where it might be subject to 
>> damage (not a problem for me in several years of use), makes a quiet 
>> whirring noise when running, requires a small clamp to attach to the frame.
>>
>> --Eric Norris
>> campyo...@me.com
>> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
>> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
>>
>> On Jul 25, 2022, at 11:59 PM, Jason Glenn  wrote:
>>
>> Hi, all,
>>
>> I've never had a bike with a dyno hub but rode one a few months back -- 
>> thanks, Max! -- and have decided to build up a wheel -- my first wheel 
>> build, too -- with one for an Atlantis.  I know the Son 28 is the go to, 
>> and I could be convinced to use one, but I'm working on a limited budget 
>> and am wondering what people think about the alternatives out there.  My 
>> main use for the Atlantis, at least at the moment, will be commuting, 
>> running erands, etc., but I'm trying to bike as my principle form of 
>> transportation (in Los Angeles) and will be riding in the evenings and 
>> early mornings with some regularity.  Down the road, I would like to do 
>> some touring on it.
>>
>> Anyway, I'm interested in any and all suggestions/perspectives.  
>>
>> Thanks, in advance,
>> jason
>>
>> P.s. While I'm at it, happy to hear about favorite rims and spokes for 
>> the build...
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a069839b-49c0-4e8f-bfb5-000f0ee9255cn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Which Dyno Hub?

[Will Boericke]

I'll offer the budget perspective.  I have two setups on my commuters, one 
is a Jtek branded Kasai from Sjs cycles, the other a Shimano 
something-or-other.  Both run B front and rear lights.  Each was about 
$50.  Both have seen thousands of nasty miles in New England winter.  No 
issues with either.



On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 11:51:06 AM UTC-4 jkg...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks, everyone, for your informative responses.  As Eric said, lots to 
> think about.
>
> Intrigued by the Velogical dynamo for my homer, since I have a wheelset 
> for it already.  Since I need to build wheels for the Atlantis, I have a 
> sense that the dyno hub might make more sense, although I gather that 
> there's a case to be made that there's still a case to be made for the 
> Velogical in that case too -- just spent a few minutes on their website, 
> and it looks like an interesting product.  Again, lots to consider.
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 8:19:02 AM UTC-7 campyo...@me.com wrote:
>
>> Jason:
>>
>> You’ll hear many opinions—good luck sifting through the advice you will 
>> get!
>>
>> I have both SON and Shutter Precision hubs and have not had any issues 
>> with either. My SONs have ranged from the old-style type with flanges 
>> pressed onto a center piece to the modern (and very pretty) type. I have 
>> several variations of the SP hubs on various bikes.
>>
>> If money is no object, definitely go with SON, if only because they’re so 
>> darn pretty. SP will perform just as well—I have not experienced the 
>> “roughness” that one other respondent reported.
>>
>> Based on what I’ve read about SON and their weather sealing, the biggest 
>> advantage that I know of is that they are pressure compensated; SP hubs are 
>> not. That means that if you go from a warm, dry environment directly into a 
>> cold and dry one, the SON hubs won’t draw in moisture as the air inside the 
>> hub cools. SP hubs might, but for this to be a problem, you would have to 
>> roll right out into a cold downpour. That’s an edge case for me and 
>> something that has never been a problem.
>>
>> Finally … Have you considered the Velogical dynamo? I have one on an Alex 
>> Singer, and it’s great. Pros: Cheaper than a dyno hub and wheel, very low 
>> draw, ZERO drag in the “off” position, great German engineering, works with 
>> any wheel. Cons: Sits outside on the frame, where it might be subject to 
>> damage (not a problem for me in several years of use), makes a quiet 
>> whirring noise when running, requires a small clamp to attach to the frame.
>>
>> --Eric Norris
>> campyo...@me.com
>> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
>> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
>>
>> On Jul 25, 2022, at 11:59 PM, Jason Glenn  wrote:
>>
>> Hi, all,
>>
>> I've never had a bike with a dyno hub but rode one a few months back -- 
>> thanks, Max! -- and have decided to build up a wheel -- my first wheel 
>> build, too -- with one for an Atlantis.  I know the Son 28 is the go to, 
>> and I could be convinced to use one, but I'm working on a limited budget 
>> and am wondering what people think about the alternatives out there.  My 
>> main use for the Atlantis, at least at the moment, will be commuting, 
>> running erands, etc., but I'm trying to bike as my principle form of 
>> transportation (in Los Angeles) and will be riding in the evenings and 
>> early mornings with some regularity.  Down the road, I would like to do 
>> some touring on it.
>>
>> Anyway, I'm interested in any and all suggestions/perspectives.  
>>
>> Thanks, in advance,
>> jason
>>
>> P.s. While I'm at it, happy to hear about favorite rims and spokes for 
>> the build...
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a069839b-49c0-4e8f-bfb5-000f0ee9255cn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Which Dyno Hub?

[Jason Glenn]

Thanks, everyone, for your informative responses.  As Eric said, lots to 
think about.

Intrigued by the Velogical dynamo for my homer, since I have a wheelset for 
it already.  Since I need to build wheels for the Atlantis, I have a sense 
that the dyno hub might make more sense, although I gather that there's a 
case to be made that there's still a case to be made for the Velogical in 
that case too -- just spent a few minutes on their website, and it looks 
like an interesting product.  Again, lots to consider.



On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 8:19:02 AM UTC-7 campyo...@me.com wrote:

> Jason:
>
> You’ll hear many opinions—good luck sifting through the advice you will 
> get!
>
> I have both SON and Shutter Precision hubs and have not had any issues 
> with either. My SONs have ranged from the old-style type with flanges 
> pressed onto a center piece to the modern (and very pretty) type. I have 
> several variations of the SP hubs on various bikes.
>
> If money is no object, definitely go with SON, if only because they’re so 
> darn pretty. SP will perform just as well—I have not experienced the 
> “roughness” that one other respondent reported.
>
> Based on what I’ve read about SON and their weather sealing, the biggest 
> advantage that I know of is that they are pressure compensated; SP hubs are 
> not. That means that if you go from a warm, dry environment directly into a 
> cold and dry one, the SON hubs won’t draw in moisture as the air inside the 
> hub cools. SP hubs might, but for this to be a problem, you would have to 
> roll right out into a cold downpour. That’s an edge case for me and 
> something that has never been a problem.
>
> Finally … Have you considered the Velogical dynamo? I have one on an Alex 
> Singer, and it’s great. Pros: Cheaper than a dyno hub and wheel, very low 
> draw, ZERO drag in the “off” position, great German engineering, works with 
> any wheel. Cons: Sits outside on the frame, where it might be subject to 
> damage (not a problem for me in several years of use), makes a quiet 
> whirring noise when running, requires a small clamp to attach to the frame.
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com
> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
>
> On Jul 25, 2022, at 11:59 PM, Jason Glenn  wrote:
>
> Hi, all,
>
> I've never had a bike with a dyno hub but rode one a few months back -- 
> thanks, Max! -- and have decided to build up a wheel -- my first wheel 
> build, too -- with one for an Atlantis.  I know the Son 28 is the go to, 
> and I could be convinced to use one, but I'm working on a limited budget 
> and am wondering what people think about the alternatives out there.  My 
> main use for the Atlantis, at least at the moment, will be commuting, 
> running erands, etc., but I'm trying to bike as my principle form of 
> transportation (in Los Angeles) and will be riding in the evenings and 
> early mornings with some regularity.  Down the road, I would like to do 
> some touring on it.
>
> Anyway, I'm interested in any and all suggestions/perspectives.  
>
> Thanks, in advance,
> jason
>
> P.s. While I'm at it, happy to hear about favorite rims and spokes for the 
> build...
>
> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Which Dyno Hub?

[Brian Forsee]

Eric,

Do you have any thoughts/comparisons on the SON vs SP for low speeds? I'm 
looking to get a dynamo set up for single track bikepacking applications. I 
believe the general consensus is the SON is best at low speeds.

Thanks in advance!

-Brian in STL, MO

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:19:02 AM UTC-5 campyo...@me.com wrote:

> Jason:
>
> You’ll hear many opinions—good luck sifting through the advice you will 
> get!
>
> I have both SON and Shutter Precision hubs and have not had any issues 
> with either. My SONs have ranged from the old-style type with flanges 
> pressed onto a center piece to the modern (and very pretty) type. I have 
> several variations of the SP hubs on various bikes.
>
> If money is no object, definitely go with SON, if only because they’re so 
> darn pretty. SP will perform just as well—I have not experienced the 
> “roughness” that one other respondent reported.
>
> Based on what I’ve read about SON and their weather sealing, the biggest 
> advantage that I know of is that they are pressure compensated; SP hubs are 
> not. That means that if you go from a warm, dry environment directly into a 
> cold and dry one, the SON hubs won’t draw in moisture as the air inside the 
> hub cools. SP hubs might, but for this to be a problem, you would have to 
> roll right out into a cold downpour. That’s an edge case for me and 
> something that has never been a problem.
>
> Finally … Have you considered the Velogical dynamo? I have one on an Alex 
> Singer, and it’s great. Pros: Cheaper than a dyno hub and wheel, very low 
> draw, ZERO drag in the “off” position, great German engineering, works with 
> any wheel. Cons: Sits outside on the frame, where it might be subject to 
> damage (not a problem for me in several years of use), makes a quiet 
> whirring noise when running, requires a small clamp to attach to the frame.
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com
> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
>
> On Jul 25, 2022, at 11:59 PM, Jason Glenn  wrote:
>
> Hi, all,
>
> I've never had a bike with a dyno hub but rode one a few months back -- 
> thanks, Max! -- and have decided to build up a wheel -- my first wheel 
> build, too -- with one for an Atlantis.  I know the Son 28 is the go to, 
> and I could be convinced to use one, but I'm working on a limited budget 
> and am wondering what people think about the alternatives out there.  My 
> main use for the Atlantis, at least at the moment, will be commuting, 
> running erands, etc., but I'm trying to bike as my principle form of 
> transportation (in Los Angeles) and will be riding in the evenings and 
> early mornings with some regularity.  Down the road, I would like to do 
> some touring on it.
>
> Anyway, I'm interested in any and all suggestions/perspectives.  
>
> Thanks, in advance,
> jason
>
> P.s. While I'm at it, happy to hear about favorite rims and spokes for the 
> build...
>
> -- 
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a069839b-49c0-4e8f-bfb5-000f0ee9255cn%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Which Dyno Hub?

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Jason:

You’ll hear many opinions—good luck sifting through the advice you will get!

I have both SON and Shutter Precision hubs and have not had any issues with 
either. My SONs have ranged from the old-style type with flanges pressed onto a 
center piece to the modern (and very pretty) type. I have several variations of 
the SP hubs on various bikes.

If money is no object, definitely go with SON, if only because they’re so darn 
pretty. SP will perform just as well—I have not experienced the “roughness” 
that one other respondent reported.

Based on what I’ve read about SON and their weather sealing, the biggest 
advantage that I know of is that they are pressure compensated; SP hubs are 
not. That means that if you go from a warm, dry environment directly into a 
cold and dry one, the SON hubs won’t draw in moisture as the air inside the hub 
cools. SP hubs might, but for this to be a problem, you would have to roll 
right out into a cold downpour. That’s an edge case for me and something that 
has never been a problem.

Finally … Have you considered the Velogical dynamo? I have one on an Alex 
Singer, and it’s great. Pros: Cheaper than a dyno hub and wheel, very low draw, 
ZERO drag in the “off” position, great German engineering, works with any 
wheel. Cons: Sits outside on the frame, where it might be subject to damage 
(not a problem for me in several years of use), makes a quiet whirring noise 
when running, requires a small clamp to attach to the frame.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 

> On Jul 25, 2022, at 11:59 PM, Jason Glenn  wrote:
> 
> Hi, all,
> 
> I've never had a bike with a dyno hub but rode one a few months back -- 
> thanks, Max! -- and have decided to build up a wheel -- my first wheel build, 
> too -- with one for an Atlantis.  I know the Son 28 is the go to, and I could 
> be convinced to use one, but I'm working on a limited budget and am wondering 
> what people think about the alternatives out there.  My main use for the 
> Atlantis, at least at the moment, will be commuting, running erands, etc., 
> but I'm trying to bike as my principle form of transportation (in Los 
> Angeles) and will be riding in the evenings and early mornings with some 
> regularity.  Down the road, I would like to do some touring on it.
> 
> Anyway, I'm interested in any and all suggestions/perspectives.  
> 
> Thanks, in advance,
> jason
> 
> P.s. While I'm at it, happy to hear about favorite rims and spokes for the 
> build...
> 
> -- 
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>  
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Re: [RBW] Re: Which Dyno Hub?

[Mathieu Brown]

Good morning Jason,

I was in a similar situation last year with my Platypus. I wanted to do a
dyno and I understood there to be only one quality option. When Will was
running through my build with me, he said something like "I mean, you can
but you don't need to? The SON28 is great but I have a Shimano and It works
95% of the way there for 50% of the price."

Now, since that conversation, Will's gotten a SON28 but, if you're looking
to see if there's a quality lower cost option? If you called him, I imagine
he'd make the same suggestion.

https://www.amazon.com/SHIMANO-Dynamo-DH-3N72-Generator-Hub/dp/B0029LD6D6

I still have my Shimano and it works great but I still think about the
SON28 that could have been...

MATHIEU BROWN



On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 8:43 AM Brian Turner  wrote:

> I've only had experience with the SON 28. My LBS tried to sell me on the
> Kasai dyno when I was building up a gravel / adventure bike back in 2020.
> and I almost went that route. However, I decided to splurge on the
> reputation of the SON 28, and the fact that it seemed to be considered one
> of the lowest drag options available. Apparently the advantage of the Kasai
> is that it's field-servicable, should the occasion ever call for it.
>
> On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 5:25 AM brendonoid 
> wrote:
>
>> I have only used son28s for years but recently acquired a Shutter
>> Precision. The cheaper dyno has a much courser rotation feel but you don't
>> notice it riding. However, I deeply dislike the shutter precision's flange
>> spacing which is unnecessarily narrow and I worry about wheel strength its
>> long term longevity for this reason.
>> That isn't a really helpful reply but I'd say if you can stretch for the
>> Son28 you wont regret it.
>>
>> --
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>> 
>> .
>>
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> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Marinoni Turismo

[Damien]

Hi all! Dropping price to $1,200 USD!

Thanks
Damien

On Friday, 22 July 2022 at 13:42:24 UTC-4 Matt Beecher wrote:

> Yep, the other was larger, but these are pretty cool, imo. 
>
>
> https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage-sales/1002852-marinoni-special-triple-rings-cantilever-brakes-great-condition.html
>
> On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 12:34:44 PM UTC-5 Matt Beecher wrote:
>
>> Very cool.  I love purple bikes and I remember one like this several 
>> years back on Bikeforums.  I think it was taller though, as I recall 
>> considering it, but the bike sold before I could finalize a deal.  
>>
>> Good luck with the sale.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Matt
>>
>> On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 12:03:38 AM UTC-5 Damien wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday, 22 July 2022 at 01:02:20 UTC-4 Damien wrote:
>>>
 aaand a few more pics

 On Friday, 22 July 2022 at 01:01:25 UTC-4 Damien wrote:

> Bit of a backstory: I bought this bike and set it up with high upright 
> handlebars with the intention of having my dad ride it. Unfortunately he 
> had a significant health scare very recently (still not recovered) and I 
> realized that he's not really going to use it. Plus he's got some 90's 
> Rocky Mountain which he won't let go of, and I thought, "well, if he's 
> happy with this, I'm happy too." So, I tinkered a bit and tried to find a 
> way to have this fit me but I could not get comfortable myself on it (I'm 
> an 80 PBH, standover on this is 81-82, and the reach still felt a bit 
> long 
> for me even with a short stem and compact bars - and I'm on a 51 in both 
> a 
> Sam and Hunqapillar and don't feel I would have a need for it even if it 
> did fit). So, I thought someone here might appreciate. 
>
> Hopefully it is ok to post this here and even if no interest, I'm 
> hoping someone will find that the bike is at least cool to look at. It 
> really is nice and makes me wish I was taller and longer limbed.
>
> On Friday, 22 July 2022 at 00:59:36 UTC-4 Damien wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately selling this lovely bike.
>>
>> 2001 Marinoni Turismo Columbus SPX frame and fork
>> 56 cm top tube length
>> ~ 81-82 cm standover
>> Campagnolo Veloce 9x3 speed shifters
>> Campagnolo Veloce RD
>> Campagnolo Triple Crankset
>> Campagnolo Triple FD
>> new cables and housing throughout
>> new Nitto x Crust Shaka Bars
>> new Nitto x Crust 60mm quill stem
>> new Black Inc bar tape
>> Ambrosio 36 hole rims laced to Campagnolo Hubs
>> Blackburn Front and Rear Touring Racks
>> Will not come with the Brooks B17 in the pics but will come with a 
>> used Brooks Cambium saddle
>>
>> Looking for $1,300 (USD) and can organize professional boxing and 
>> shipping at the buyers expense (I am located in Canada - if you're in 
>> Canada and interested, can discuss CAD price).
>>
>> Let me know if any questions. Will happily send more pics!
>> Damien
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Which Dyno Hub?

[Brian Turner]

I've only had experience with the SON 28. My LBS tried to sell me on the
Kasai dyno when I was building up a gravel / adventure bike back in 2020.
and I almost went that route. However, I decided to splurge on the
reputation of the SON 28, and the fact that it seemed to be considered one
of the lowest drag options available. Apparently the advantage of the Kasai
is that it's field-servicable, should the occasion ever call for it.

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 5:25 AM brendonoid  wrote:

> I have only used son28s for years but recently acquired a Shutter
> Precision. The cheaper dyno has a much courser rotation feel but you don't
> notice it riding. However, I deeply dislike the shutter precision's flange
> spacing which is unnecessarily narrow and I worry about wheel strength its
> long term longevity for this reason.
> That isn't a really helpful reply but I'd say if you can stretch for the
> Son28 you wont regret it.
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] High bars at a club ride

[Bones]

I think that's the whole point. Drop bars are the only option on many over 
the counter crotch rockets. Many people are not aware of the "endless 
way(s) to ride." 

Bones

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 8:52:55 AM UTC-4 jo...@chilmarkresearch.com 
wrote:

> Garth, couldn’t have said it better myself.
> Whatever works for YOU is all that counts…
> …though I have been known to give pointers to relatively new riders on 
> form, cadence, gearing etiquette, etc. to help them maintain pace in a 
> paceline. 
>
> Johnnysmooth 
>
> On Jul 26, 2022, at 8:44 AM, Garth  wrote:
>
> 
>
> I've ridden many a mile and raced with quite low drops bars. I've ridden 
> many a mile with with quite high Albatross bars. 
>
> I've ridden many a mile with "regular/street" clothes. I've ridden many a 
> mile with "cycling specific" clothes. 
>
> Day/night/up/down and all around . 
>
> Who/what is to say one "position/way" is better than any other ?
>
> That "who/what" is but the given position trying to justify itself !   Not 
> the rider, the one riding. These "positions" take many forms, be it 
> formations of size and shape or thoughts/opinions/attitudes inwards and 
> outwards towards "others". Sometimes the rider seems to "lose themselves" 
> in these "positions" and seem to believe they ARE the "position". They are 
> not, ever. One is not "what they say", One is That They IS" .BEING !  
> ((( laughing ))) 
>
> Such is the "egomania" of such "positions" !  ((( laughing heartily ))) 
> Always seeking validation, a pat on the ol' back, a status up high or even 
> down low... and a ho-ho-ho !
>
>  
> Nevertheless There's endless way to ride !  As you ride 'em all you 
> clealy see that they all have thier place/time/space/etc, that there is no 
> valid basis for comparing/raising/lowering one to any "other" one as there 
> is only The-One-ALL . This Presence called "Here/Now/This/The-IS" ! 
>
> Just Ride sunshine ! 
>
> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] High bars at a club ride

[John Moore]

Garth, couldn’t have said it better myself.
Whatever works for YOU is all that counts…
…though I have been known to give pointers to relatively new riders on form, 
cadence, gearing etiquette, etc. to help them maintain pace in a paceline. 

Johnnysmooth 

> On Jul 26, 2022, at 8:44 AM, Garth  wrote:
> 
> 
> I've ridden many a mile and raced with quite low drops bars. I've ridden many 
> a mile with with quite high Albatross bars. 
> 
> I've ridden many a mile with "regular/street" clothes. I've ridden many a 
> mile with "cycling specific" clothes. 
> 
> Day/night/up/down and all around . 
> 
> Who/what is to say one "position/way" is better than any other ?
> 
> That "who/what" is but the given position trying to justify itself !   Not 
> the rider, the one riding. These "positions" take many forms, be it 
> formations of size and shape or thoughts/opinions/attitudes inwards and 
> outwards towards "others". Sometimes the rider seems to "lose themselves" in 
> these "positions" and seem to believe they ARE the "position". They are not, 
> ever. One is not "what they say", One is That They IS" .BEING !  ((( 
> laughing ))) 
> 
> Such is the "egomania" of such "positions" !  ((( laughing heartily ))) 
> Always seeking validation, a pat on the ol' back, a status up high or even 
> down low... and a ho-ho-ho !
> 
>  
> Nevertheless There's endless way to ride !  As you ride 'em all you 
> clealy see that they all have thier place/time/space/etc, that there is no 
> valid basis for comparing/raising/lowering one to any "other" one as there is 
> only The-One-ALL . This Presence called "Here/Now/This/The-IS" ! 
> 
> Just Ride sunshine ! 
> 
> -- 
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Re: [RBW] High bars at a club ride

[Garth]

I've ridden many a mile and raced with quite low drops bars. I've ridden 
many a mile with with quite high Albatross bars. 

I've ridden many a mile with "regular/street" clothes. I've ridden many a 
mile with "cycling specific" clothes. 

Day/night/up/down and all around . 

Who/what is to say one "position/way" is better than any other ?

That "who/what" is but the given position trying to justify itself !   Not 
the rider, the one riding. These "positions" take many forms, be it 
formations of size and shape or thoughts/opinions/attitudes inwards and 
outwards towards "others". Sometimes the rider seems to "lose themselves" 
in these "positions" and seem to believe they ARE the "position". They are 
not, ever. One is not "what they say", One is That They IS" .BEING !  
((( laughing ))) 

Such is the "egomania" of such "positions" !  ((( laughing heartily ))) 
Always seeking validation, a pat on the ol' back, a status up high or even 
down low... and a ho-ho-ho !

 
Nevertheless There's endless way to ride !  As you ride 'em all you 
clealy see that they all have thier place/time/space/etc, that there is no 
valid basis for comparing/raising/lowering one to any "other" one as there 
is only The-One-ALL . This Presence called "Here/Now/This/The-IS" ! 

Just Ride sunshine ! 

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Re: [RBW] High bars at a club ride

[Bones]

I would have said look at all the other riders' body positions compared to 
Leah's. It's the same. It's the same position I am in while holding front 
of my Albatross/Billie bars. I can't dispute that drops are great sometimes 
(mostly wind for me), but I have my drops high enough to comfortable and 
useful for me. That may not be the case with many "over the counter crotch 
rockets" <-- love it!

Bones

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 8:12:02 AM UTC-4 Marc Irwin wrote:

> Eric,
> The point is that riders don't use that position.  Even against the wind, 
> only one with drop bars actually got into the lower position.  They all 
> stayed up on the hoods or the flats the whole ride.
>
> Marc
>
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 7:38:12 AM UTC-4 Eric Daume wrote:
>
>> Is there any doubt drop bars aren’t faster? Less drag goes a long way. A 
>> more leaned over position lets you use your big butt muscles better. 
>>
>> Leah is up front because she’s a strong rider. Maybe she would be up 
>> fronter if she had drops. 
>>
>> Eric
>> With no drop bar bikes in the garage. 
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022, Marc Irwin  wrote:
>>
>>> It was a normal Monday night ride with the Kalamazoo Bicycle Club.  A 
>>> typical group was riding 15-16 MPH for 25 or so miles.  A good bunch of 
>>> people in biking regalia on their over the counter crotch rockets with drop 
>>> bars, except for me and Leah Peterson on our Rivendells. with upright 
>>> bars.In the lousy cell phone shot I took from the back of the group, 
>>> Leah is the second white helmet from from the front left.  Notice her 
>>> posture compared to the body position of all the riders on their drop bars.
>>> [image: high bars.jpg]
>>> It was that way the whole ride. Most club riders assume their drop bars 
>>> make them faster, after all, EVERYBODY uses them right?  
>>>
>>> Marc
>>>
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>>> .
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Re: [RBW] High bars at a club ride

[Marc Irwin]

Eric,
The point is that riders don't use that position.  Even against the wind, 
only one with drop bars actually got into the lower position.  They all 
stayed up on the hoods or the flats the whole ride.

Marc

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 7:38:12 AM UTC-4 Eric Daume wrote:

> Is there any doubt drop bars aren’t faster? Less drag goes a long way. A 
> more leaned over position lets you use your big butt muscles better. 
>
> Leah is up front because she’s a strong rider. Maybe she would be up 
> fronter if she had drops. 
>
> Eric
> With no drop bar bikes in the garage. 
>
>
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022, Marc Irwin  wrote:
>
>> It was a normal Monday night ride with the Kalamazoo Bicycle Club.  A 
>> typical group was riding 15-16 MPH for 25 or so miles.  A good bunch of 
>> people in biking regalia on their over the counter crotch rockets with drop 
>> bars, except for me and Leah Peterson on our Rivendells. with upright 
>> bars.In the lousy cell phone shot I took from the back of the group, 
>> Leah is the second white helmet from from the front left.  Notice her 
>> posture compared to the body position of all the riders on their drop bars.
>> [image: high bars.jpg]
>> It was that way the whole ride. Most club riders assume their drop bars 
>> make them faster, after all, EVERYBODY uses them right?  
>>
>> Marc
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Homer 6 months review and questions

[Steve Cole]

Deepak,
What a wonderful ride.  I have both a Homer (Toyo) and an Atlantis (MIT). 
 I love them both.  First, I wonder whether the under-25 pounds figures you 
have seen are for Toyo (1st gen) or Waterford (2nd gen) Homers.  They had 
different geometry and used different tubes that may explain the gap 
between your 28# and the 25# yo've seen.  

Second, I often think about replying to questions about how one might cut 
the weight of their bike but have never replied.  I strongly believe how 
one builds their bike, the components they select, should reflect its 
intended primary use.  If going as fast as you can (e.g., racing) is 
paramount, cutting weight without sacrificing strength, handling or safety 
is sensible.  On the other hand, as is the case for me, if you ride for 
exercise, fun and health, I can't think of a good reason to look for ways 
to pare the bike's weight.  How much bike/rider weight you push around, as 
Grant Peterson has noted, is mostly a reflection of the rider's weight even 
in your case. In addition, pushing around a  25# bike is a weight savings 
to you of only about 1.5% of total (bike+rider) weight.  While this is 
pretty negligible, the added weight should be better for health, strength, 
stamina, etc.  Not much better, I admit, but this thinking has stopped me 
from focusing on weight and not the joy of riding.

I don't know whether this is any help. I hope so.
Steve Cole
Arlington, Virginia

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 5:19:01 AM UTC-4 brendonoid wrote:

> Your Homer looks perfect and I would second everything that Roberta has 
> just said.
> Looking at your build in that photo the only things you could lose weight 
> on are all utility comfort things. 
> The saddle, Dyno, kickstand and brass bell are all weight saving 
> opportunities but also things that I personally would consider 'worth the 
> weight'.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] High bars at a club ride

[Eric Daume]

Is there any doubt drop bars aren’t faster? Less drag goes a long way. A
more leaned over position lets you use your big butt muscles better.

Leah is up front because she’s a strong rider. Maybe she would be up
fronter if she had drops.

Eric
With no drop bar bikes in the garage.


On Tuesday, July 26, 2022, Marc Irwin  wrote:

> It was a normal Monday night ride with the Kalamazoo Bicycle Club.  A
> typical group was riding 15-16 MPH for 25 or so miles.  A good bunch of
> people in biking regalia on their over the counter crotch rockets with drop
> bars, except for me and Leah Peterson on our Rivendells. with upright
> bars.In the lousy cell phone shot I took from the back of the group,
> Leah is the second white helmet from from the front left.  Notice her
> posture compared to the body position of all the riders on their drop bars.
> [image: high bars.jpg]
> It was that way the whole ride. Most club riders assume their drop bars
> make them faster, after all, EVERYBODY uses them right?
>
> Marc
>
> --
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> msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/cedfdbf5-1e48-4ac8-b43b-
> 5a4929b914c5n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

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[RBW] High bars at a club ride

[Marc Irwin]

It was a normal Monday night ride with the Kalamazoo Bicycle Club.  A 
typical group was riding 15-16 MPH for 25 or so miles.  A good bunch of 
people in biking regalia on their over the counter crotch rockets with drop 
bars, except for me and Leah Peterson on our Rivendells. with upright 
bars.In the lousy cell phone shot I took from the back of the group, 
Leah is the second white helmet from from the front left.  Notice her 
posture compared to the body position of all the riders on their drop bars.
[image: high bars.jpg]
It was that way the whole ride. Most club riders assume their drop bars 
make them faster, after all, EVERYBODY uses them right?  

Marc

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[RBW] Re: Which Dyno Hub?

[brendonoid]

I have only used son28s for years but recently acquired a Shutter 
Precision. The cheaper dyno has a much courser rotation feel but you don't 
notice it riding. However, I deeply dislike the shutter precision's flange 
spacing which is unnecessarily narrow and I worry about wheel strength its 
long term longevity for this reason.
That isn't a really helpful reply but I'd say if you can stretch for the 
Son28 you wont regret it.

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Re: [RBW] Homer 6 months review and questions

[brendonoid]

Your Homer looks perfect and I would second everything that Roberta has 
just said.
Looking at your build in that photo the only things you could lose weight 
on are all utility comfort things. 
The saddle, Dyno, kickstand and brass bell are all weight saving 
opportunities but also things that I personally would consider 'worth the 
weight'.

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Re: [RBW] Homer 6 months review and questions

[Roberta]

Deepak,

Congratulations on your Homer/Atlantis combo. I had a Homer/Appaloosa 
combo, with nearly the same setup (and same order of ownership), size and 
impressions as as you. I think these two bikes complement each other well.  I 
even did the lightening up process. I’m glad I did because it helped both 
bikes ride better, yet still different from each other. Love the dynamo 
lights and tubeless.  I rode both bikes equally.  You can read about it 
here:

https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/pWpMrkiVUlk/m/eVByOom6CQAJ  

The only thing I changed after the project was that I put the original 
choco moose handlebar back on th Appa, as that bar was the perfect bar for 
me on that bike. 

I’m still in love with my lively riding Homer but sold the Appaloosa to 
have room for a Platypus. The decision to sell the Appaloosa rather than 
Homer was that I don’t ride off-road or tour, not that I didn’t like it’s 
smooth buttery ride. 

Btw, bikes can lose a lot of weight for free with lighter saddles, smaller 
bags, lighter or no fenders and racks. I have a 1.25 lb vs Nitto 2.5 lb 
rack. I changed Flyer for Selle Anatomica. Banana sac vs Carradice bag. 
Some items are worth the weight, like your  aforementioned kickstand—so 
darn practical. 

Roberta

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 12:15:22 AM UTC-4 atreya...@gmail.com wrote:

> Here is pic from my evening ride today :-)
> [image: image0.jpeg]
>
> Cheers ,
> Deepak
>
> On Jul 25, 2022, at 21:14, atreya...@gmail.com  
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> I have had my homer for 6 months . After lot of experimenting , obsessing 
> qnd tweaking i am almost 99% there ( in the process I have a mini nitto 
> shop with almost all variations of handlebars !which I will try to find a 
> good home for when I get  to it ) . The more I tweak and better it 
> gets,  more I obsesss , funny how that works !
>
> I love this bike ! It is super comfortable but yet super responsive in 
> handling . I am invariably smiling and instantly in a good mood every time 
> I ride it even if just for 10 minutes! 
>
> It feels super nimble and responsive compared to my Atlantis ( which is my 
> first love and forever bike for different reasons ) and want to further 
> differentiate between the two .So this brings me to my question 
>
>1. Compared to my Atlantis it weighs just 4 lbs less (28 vs 32 ) . How 
>much of this handling difference is due to weight compared geometry and 
>tubing stiffness ? I am also pretty light weight between 160-165 lbs so 
>might be little more sensitive to weight changes on bike . 
>2. If it’s weight ? Is it worth to chase some more weight savings ? I 
>want to set it up as lightweight go around town for fun type of bike while 
>Atlantis would do longer touring/hauling , trails etc. I am surprised when 
>I see numbers close to 25lb or under . I have no racks or fenders , so 
>where can those weight saving come from ? I am not willing to sacrifice 
>comfort ( pedals and leather saddle ) and definitely not my kick stand :-) 
>. Below is my current set up 
>
> Size : 54.5 
>
> Wheels : pacenti brevet with son28 dynamo and 
>
> Tires : RH squanomie pass standard (tubeless)
>
> Shimano hub ( I have realized the use case for dynamo for my riding is 
> pretty limited so wouldn’t mind losing it ) .
>
> Crank : silver cranks 42-28 
>
> Brake set up : Paul racers and canti levers
>
> Cock pit : albatross bar , nitto talux stem .
>
>
> Appreciate your thoughts !
>
>  
>
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> .
>
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[RBW] Which Dyno Hub?

[Jason Glenn]

Hi, all,

I've never had a bike with a dyno hub but rode one a few months back -- 
thanks, Max! -- and have decided to build up a wheel -- my first wheel 
build, too -- with one for an Atlantis.  I know the Son 28 is the go to, 
and I could be convinced to use one, but I'm working on a limited budget 
and am wondering what people think about the alternatives out there.  My 
main use for the Atlantis, at least at the moment, will be commuting, 
running erands, etc., but I'm trying to bike as my principle form of 
transportation (in Los Angeles) and will be riding in the evenings and 
early mornings with some regularity.  Down the road, I would like to do 
some touring on it.

Anyway, I'm interested in any and all suggestions/perspectives.  

Thanks, in advance,
jason

P.s. While I'm at it, happy to hear about favorite rims and spokes for the 
build...

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