Re: sRe: [RBW] Re: Which Dyno Hub?

[Justin Williams]

I've got lots of miles on a Shimano 3n72, limited experience with Kasai RB 
(150 miles?), and hands on but no riding experience with SON 28 (which is 
on my partner's bike). I've also used a Sturmey Archer drum brake/dynamo 
hub.

My hot take is that all of them do their job great: powering really nice 
lights and freeing me from thinking about charging lights or bringing 
batteries. The difference between dynamo hub and no dynamo hub is miles 
wider than the difference between the three dynos I've used. 

Some differences I've noticed include:
My totally untested, purely self-validating impression is that the Kasai 
has less drag than the Shimano when the lights are off and on. But is that 
real? I don't honestly know. I couldn't say what the difference is with the 
SON, because I haven't ridden it. But people who test these things tell me 
the SON has measurably less drag. I believe them. I also don't believe my 
Shimano dynamo hub is the thing slowing me down! But I don't ride brevets.

The SON costs twice as much as the Kasai, and the Kasai and Shimano were 
nearly equivalent in cost. I recently chose to save $150 and get a Kasai 
because I wanted to spend that money on lights and other parts. And making 
that decision helped me buy other budget parts for the wheel build (Sun 
CR18). I just wouldn't feel right lacing a SON to a CR18. 

Others have rightly pointed out that the Kasai/Shutter flange spacing seems 
needlessly narrow. I suppose only time will tell if that will be a problem. 
For my 170 pound self who tends to pack light-ish on camping trips and 
doesn't ride rough trails, I doubt it. If I was a heavier rider carrying 
lots of gear, I might spring for the SON. 

The SON is, to my eye, the prettiest one to look at. For me, riding in a 
big city, that seemed like a liability rather than an asset. But I'm 
running a Deore rear hub and Deore v brakes and used parts from other 
builds. If I was running a white industries rear hub and Paul V brakes and 
rarely locked up on the street, I might think differently. For the record: 
I think the Kasai if a very handsome hub. Just not as jewel-like as the SON.

Really, I don't think you can go wrong with all the modern dyno hubs! If 
money's no object, it seems like you can't go wrong with the SON. The Kasai 
is really nice. The Shimano works great too.




On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 6:52:47 PM UTC-5 maxcr wrote:

> Another shout out for the Shutter Precision which is what James at Analog 
> spec'd for my partner's Susie as a lower cost alternative to a SON28 - it's 
> been rock solid for her so far, but tbh it's seen light use.
> Max
> On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 6:56:16 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:
>
>> This is an enlightening and timely discussion about dynamos, as I'm 
>> shopping for one myself. Thank you.
>>
>> Has anyone had experience with Velocity's dynamo hubs 
>> ? I came across 
>> them haphazardly. I also wonder about Velocity's rear hubs 
>> .
>>
>> Best wishes.
>>
>> On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 2:32:59 PM UTC-4 Wesley wrote:
>>
>>> On "enjoy wheel building":
>>> One benefit of disc brakes is that I can easily build my own wheels and 
>>> have good braking performance. Rim brakes are a bit more particular about 
>>> the wheel being true and round.
>>> -W
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 10:57:42 AM UTC-7 Tom M wrote:
>>>

 This may or may not influence your decision, but The Pro's Closet has 
 several SP dynamo Exposure Lights combinations for sale: 
 https://www.theproscloset.com/pages/search-results-page?q=exposure%20lights%20revo%20dynamo.
  
 I'm a fan of Exposure lights, so I went with this combination for several 
 wheel sets I built up. I also have a SON wheel for my gravel bike. I felt 
 some resistance with the SON initially, but it quickly went away. With the 
 SP, I definitely feel drag or whatever through the handlebars, but can't 
 say whether if affects my speed. I don't know if that's an anomaly with 
 that particular dynamo because I don't have enough miles on the other SP 
 wheels to say. As far as rims go, the gravel bike got Velocity Blunt SS in 
 650b; the road bike got a Pacenti Brevit, also in 650b. I use an exposure 
 rear light, which plugs into the front light; it will stay lit for some 
 time after a stop, which is a nice benefit.

 Enjoy wheel building.

 Take care,
 Tom Milani
 Alexandria, VA

 On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 12:32:34 PM UTC-4 ttoshi wrote:

> I agree with all that has been said so far.  I have a Shimano dynohub, 
> an SP dyno and an SON.  The Shimano is known to have slightly more drag 
> than the SON and the SP is pretty close to the SON. I have been commuting 
> on my Shimano for years (and previously on the SP for years on another 
> bike) with no problems, but it 

sRe: [RBW] Re: Which Dyno Hub?

[maxcr]

Another shout out for the Shutter Precision which is what James at Analog 
spec'd for my partner's Susie as a lower cost alternative to a SON28 - it's 
been rock solid for her so far, but tbh it's seen light use.
Max
On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 6:56:16 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:

> This is an enlightening and timely discussion about dynamos, as I'm 
> shopping for one myself. Thank you.
>
> Has anyone had experience with Velocity's dynamo hubs 
> ? I came across 
> them haphazardly. I also wonder about Velocity's rear hubs 
> .
>
> Best wishes.
>
> On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 2:32:59 PM UTC-4 Wesley wrote:
>
>> On "enjoy wheel building":
>> One benefit of disc brakes is that I can easily build my own wheels and 
>> have good braking performance. Rim brakes are a bit more particular about 
>> the wheel being true and round.
>> -W
>>
>> On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 10:57:42 AM UTC-7 Tom M wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> This may or may not influence your decision, but The Pro's Closet has 
>>> several SP dynamo Exposure Lights combinations for sale: 
>>> https://www.theproscloset.com/pages/search-results-page?q=exposure%20lights%20revo%20dynamo.
>>>  
>>> I'm a fan of Exposure lights, so I went with this combination for several 
>>> wheel sets I built up. I also have a SON wheel for my gravel bike. I felt 
>>> some resistance with the SON initially, but it quickly went away. With the 
>>> SP, I definitely feel drag or whatever through the handlebars, but can't 
>>> say whether if affects my speed. I don't know if that's an anomaly with 
>>> that particular dynamo because I don't have enough miles on the other SP 
>>> wheels to say. As far as rims go, the gravel bike got Velocity Blunt SS in 
>>> 650b; the road bike got a Pacenti Brevit, also in 650b. I use an exposure 
>>> rear light, which plugs into the front light; it will stay lit for some 
>>> time after a stop, which is a nice benefit.
>>>
>>> Enjoy wheel building.
>>>
>>> Take care,
>>> Tom Milani
>>> Alexandria, VA
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 12:32:34 PM UTC-4 ttoshi wrote:
>>>
 I agree with all that has been said so far.  I have a Shimano dynohub, 
 an SP dyno and an SON.  The Shimano is known to have slightly more drag 
 than the SON and the SP is pretty close to the SON. I have been commuting 
 on my Shimano for years (and previously on the SP for years on another 
 bike) with no problems, but it doesn't get cold in CA and it doesn't rain 
 that much. I would go with the SON for weather-related reasons (as 
 mentioned earlier) and style-related--it looks nicer, but I don't think 
 sturdiness of wheel or reliability is a major concern (unless you are 
 really hard on your wheels), as all of these hubs have been ridden for 
 thousands of miles and I have not heard of any spoke/hub breaks or other 
 issues from any of the brands.

 The only other reason for the SON that I can think of is if you are 
 riding at your limit or where a few extra minutes and slightly less effort 
 means getting more rest on a long ride (e.g. a brevet), then that would be 
 worth it for me (I have one on my rando bike--the extra bling doesn't hurt 
 too :-).

 Toshi in Oakland, CA



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Re: [RBW] Re: Which Dyno Hub?

[J J]

This is an enlightening and timely discussion about dynamos, as I'm 
shopping for one myself. Thank you.

Has anyone had experience with Velocity's dynamo hubs 
? I came across them 
haphazardly. I also wonder about Velocity's rear hubs 
.

Best wishes.

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 2:32:59 PM UTC-4 Wesley wrote:

> On "enjoy wheel building":
> One benefit of disc brakes is that I can easily build my own wheels and 
> have good braking performance. Rim brakes are a bit more particular about 
> the wheel being true and round.
> -W
>
> On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 10:57:42 AM UTC-7 Tom M wrote:
>
>>
>> This may or may not influence your decision, but The Pro's Closet has 
>> several SP dynamo Exposure Lights combinations for sale: 
>> https://www.theproscloset.com/pages/search-results-page?q=exposure%20lights%20revo%20dynamo.
>>  
>> I'm a fan of Exposure lights, so I went with this combination for several 
>> wheel sets I built up. I also have a SON wheel for my gravel bike. I felt 
>> some resistance with the SON initially, but it quickly went away. With the 
>> SP, I definitely feel drag or whatever through the handlebars, but can't 
>> say whether if affects my speed. I don't know if that's an anomaly with 
>> that particular dynamo because I don't have enough miles on the other SP 
>> wheels to say. As far as rims go, the gravel bike got Velocity Blunt SS in 
>> 650b; the road bike got a Pacenti Brevit, also in 650b. I use an exposure 
>> rear light, which plugs into the front light; it will stay lit for some 
>> time after a stop, which is a nice benefit.
>>
>> Enjoy wheel building.
>>
>> Take care,
>> Tom Milani
>> Alexandria, VA
>>
>> On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 12:32:34 PM UTC-4 ttoshi wrote:
>>
>>> I agree with all that has been said so far.  I have a Shimano dynohub, 
>>> an SP dyno and an SON.  The Shimano is known to have slightly more drag 
>>> than the SON and the SP is pretty close to the SON. I have been commuting 
>>> on my Shimano for years (and previously on the SP for years on another 
>>> bike) with no problems, but it doesn't get cold in CA and it doesn't rain 
>>> that much. I would go with the SON for weather-related reasons (as 
>>> mentioned earlier) and style-related--it looks nicer, but I don't think 
>>> sturdiness of wheel or reliability is a major concern (unless you are 
>>> really hard on your wheels), as all of these hubs have been ridden for 
>>> thousands of miles and I have not heard of any spoke/hub breaks or other 
>>> issues from any of the brands.
>>>
>>> The only other reason for the SON that I can think of is if you are 
>>> riding at your limit or where a few extra minutes and slightly less effort 
>>> means getting more rest on a long ride (e.g. a brevet), then that would be 
>>> worth it for me (I have one on my rando bike--the extra bling doesn't hurt 
>>> too :-).
>>>
>>> Toshi in Oakland, CA
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Which Dyno Hub?

[Wesley]

On "enjoy wheel building":
One benefit of disc brakes is that I can easily build my own wheels and 
have good braking performance. Rim brakes are a bit more particular about 
the wheel being true and round.
-W

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 10:57:42 AM UTC-7 Tom M wrote:

>
> This may or may not influence your decision, but The Pro's Closet has 
> several SP dynamo Exposure Lights combinations for sale: 
> https://www.theproscloset.com/pages/search-results-page?q=exposure%20lights%20revo%20dynamo.
>  
> I'm a fan of Exposure lights, so I went with this combination for several 
> wheel sets I built up. I also have a SON wheel for my gravel bike. I felt 
> some resistance with the SON initially, but it quickly went away. With the 
> SP, I definitely feel drag or whatever through the handlebars, but can't 
> say whether if affects my speed. I don't know if that's an anomaly with 
> that particular dynamo because I don't have enough miles on the other SP 
> wheels to say. As far as rims go, the gravel bike got Velocity Blunt SS in 
> 650b; the road bike got a Pacenti Brevit, also in 650b. I use an exposure 
> rear light, which plugs into the front light; it will stay lit for some 
> time after a stop, which is a nice benefit.
>
> Enjoy wheel building.
>
> Take care,
> Tom Milani
> Alexandria, VA
>
> On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 12:32:34 PM UTC-4 ttoshi wrote:
>
>> I agree with all that has been said so far.  I have a Shimano dynohub, an 
>> SP dyno and an SON.  The Shimano is known to have slightly more drag than 
>> the SON and the SP is pretty close to the SON. I have been commuting on my 
>> Shimano for years (and previously on the SP for years on another bike) with 
>> no problems, but it doesn't get cold in CA and it doesn't rain that much. I 
>> would go with the SON for weather-related reasons (as mentioned earlier) 
>> and style-related--it looks nicer, but I don't think sturdiness of wheel or 
>> reliability is a major concern (unless you are really hard on your wheels), 
>> as all of these hubs have been ridden for thousands of miles and I have not 
>> heard of any spoke/hub breaks or other issues from any of the brands.
>>
>> The only other reason for the SON that I can think of is if you are 
>> riding at your limit or where a few extra minutes and slightly less effort 
>> means getting more rest on a long ride (e.g. a brevet), then that would be 
>> worth it for me (I have one on my rando bike--the extra bling doesn't hurt 
>> too :-).
>>
>> Toshi in Oakland, CA
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Which Dyno Hub?

['Tom M' via RBW Owners Bunch]

This may or may not influence your decision, but The Pro's Closet has 
several SP dynamo Exposure Lights combinations for 
sale: 
https://www.theproscloset.com/pages/search-results-page?q=exposure%20lights%20revo%20dynamo.
 
I'm a fan of Exposure lights, so I went with this combination for several 
wheel sets I built up. I also have a SON wheel for my gravel bike. I felt 
some resistance with the SON initially, but it quickly went away. With the 
SP, I definitely feel drag or whatever through the handlebars, but can't 
say whether if affects my speed. I don't know if that's an anomaly with 
that particular dynamo because I don't have enough miles on the other SP 
wheels to say. As far as rims go, the gravel bike got Velocity Blunt SS in 
650b; the road bike got a Pacenti Brevit, also in 650b. I use an exposure 
rear light, which plugs into the front light; it will stay lit for some 
time after a stop, which is a nice benefit.

Enjoy wheel building.

Take care,
Tom Milani
Alexandria, VA

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 12:32:34 PM UTC-4 ttoshi wrote:

> I agree with all that has been said so far.  I have a Shimano dynohub, an 
> SP dyno and an SON.  The Shimano is known to have slightly more drag than 
> the SON and the SP is pretty close to the SON. I have been commuting on my 
> Shimano for years (and previously on the SP for years on another bike) with 
> no problems, but it doesn't get cold in CA and it doesn't rain that much. I 
> would go with the SON for weather-related reasons (as mentioned earlier) 
> and style-related--it looks nicer, but I don't think sturdiness of wheel or 
> reliability is a major concern (unless you are really hard on your wheels), 
> as all of these hubs have been ridden for thousands of miles and I have not 
> heard of any spoke/hub breaks or other issues from any of the brands.
>
> The only other reason for the SON that I can think of is if you are riding 
> at your limit or where a few extra minutes and slightly less effort means 
> getting more rest on a long ride (e.g. a brevet), then that would be worth 
> it for me (I have one on my rando bike--the extra bling doesn't hurt too 
> :-).
>
> Toshi in Oakland, CA
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS- Nitto Handlebar, stems and seat post

[Lance Terry]

Sorry, Meant to PM that one.


On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 10:33:41 AM UTC-6 Lance Terry wrote:

> Hey Deepak,
>  On second thought I think I'll pass on the bull bars. I already have a 
> set of Jones bars to try first. I do still want the 50mm stem though.
> Thanks
> Lance 
>
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 9:03:36 PM UTC-6 atreya...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am clearing my stack of handlebars , stems and posts  and hoping to 
>> find a good home for these. I finally settled on handlebars and stems that 
>> I like. The price doesn’t include shipping. I am based out of *Danville, 
>> CA* if anyone is interested in local pick up. Handlebars might have some 
>> minor scuff from install and bar tape residue that I can clean up before 
>> shipping. Happy to send photos if interested, PM me
>>
>>  
>>
>> Handlebars
>>
>>1. Nitto Bosco - 55 CM CroMo : $60 (Installed and used less than 10 
>>miles) 
>>2. Nitto Bull bar - 70 * 31.8  : $100 (Installed and used less than 
>>10 miles) 
>>3. Nitto Losco - 54 CM * 25.4: $90 (Installed and used less than 50 
>>miles) 
>>4. Passchier Gump Bambo - 760 *31.8  : $200  Installed and used less 
>>than 10 miles) - very nice and comfy , really absorbs tiny vibrations of 
>>road but the sweep didn’t work for me. I have realized I like sweeps 
>>similar to choco. Read bike snobs review here (
>>https://bikesnobnyc.com/2022/01/13/bamboo-you/) 
>>5. Nitto Choco Moose - $180 :  (Installed and used less than 50 
>>miles). Currently on my Atlantis. I love this ! And what actually 
>>introduced me to Choco which I think I really like, but doesn’t work with 
>>my stem bag. Using the funds from sale to switch to regular Choco 
>>6. Nitto Albatross - $60 : My second favorite, currently on my homer 
>>.  Using funds to switch to choco. Most used may be 700 miles. Scuffs 
>> from 
>>install and brake lever swaps but functions as it should. 
>>7. Nitto M151  46 * 26.0  - $50: Functionally similar to Noodle but 
>>shorter reach. (installed and used less than 50 miles) 
>>
>>  
>>
>> Stem 
>>
>>  
>>
>>1. Nitto Tallux 70 mm *26.0 - $60 (Installed and used less than 10 
>>miles) 
>>2. Nitto Tallux 50 mm *26.0 - $60 (Installed and used less than 10 
>>miles) 
>>3. Nitto Tallux 120 Mm * 26.0 - $60 (Installed and used less than 50 
>>miles) 
>>
>>  
>>
>> Seatpost
>>
>> Nitto S92 Zero Setback seat post $80  -(Installed and used less than 10 
>> miles)
>>
>>  
>>
>> Brake Lever
>>
>>  
>>
>> Gran Compe Brake Lever Set GC202H Brown Hood - $50 (Installed and used 
>> less than 10 miles)
>>
>>  
>>
>> Rack 
>>
>> Soma Rack Champs-Elysees Stainless Rear - $100 (Installed and used less 
>> than 50 miles)
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS- Nitto Handlebar, stems and seat post

[Lance Terry]

Hey Deepak,
 On second thought I think I'll pass on the bull bars. I already have a set 
of Jones bars to try first. I do still want the 50mm stem though.
Thanks
Lance 

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 9:03:36 PM UTC-6 atreya...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am clearing my stack of handlebars , stems and posts  and hoping to find 
> a good home for these. I finally settled on handlebars and stems that I 
> like. The price doesn’t include shipping. I am based out of *Danville, CA* 
> if anyone is interested in local pick up. Handlebars might have some minor 
> scuff from install and bar tape residue that I can clean up before 
> shipping. Happy to send photos if interested, PM me
>
>  
>
> Handlebars
>
>1. Nitto Bosco - 55 CM CroMo : $60 (Installed and used less than 10 
>miles) 
>2. Nitto Bull bar - 70 * 31.8  : $100 (Installed and used less than 10 
>miles) 
>3. Nitto Losco - 54 CM * 25.4: $90 (Installed and used less than 50 
>miles) 
>4. Passchier Gump Bambo - 760 *31.8  : $200  Installed and used less 
>than 10 miles) - very nice and comfy , really absorbs tiny vibrations of 
>road but the sweep didn’t work for me. I have realized I like sweeps 
>similar to choco. Read bike snobs review here (
>https://bikesnobnyc.com/2022/01/13/bamboo-you/) 
>5. Nitto Choco Moose - $180 :  (Installed and used less than 50 
>miles). Currently on my Atlantis. I love this ! And what actually 
>introduced me to Choco which I think I really like, but doesn’t work with 
>my stem bag. Using the funds from sale to switch to regular Choco 
>6. Nitto Albatross - $60 : My second favorite, currently on my homer 
>.  Using funds to switch to choco. Most used may be 700 miles. Scuffs from 
>install and brake lever swaps but functions as it should. 
>7. Nitto M151  46 * 26.0  - $50: Functionally similar to Noodle but 
>shorter reach. (installed and used less than 50 miles) 
>
>  
>
> Stem 
>
>  
>
>1. Nitto Tallux 70 mm *26.0 - $60 (Installed and used less than 10 
>miles) 
>2. Nitto Tallux 50 mm *26.0 - $60 (Installed and used less than 10 
>miles) 
>3. Nitto Tallux 120 Mm * 26.0 - $60 (Installed and used less than 50 
>miles) 
>
>  
>
> Seatpost
>
> Nitto S92 Zero Setback seat post $80  -(Installed and used less than 10 
> miles)
>
>  
>
> Brake Lever
>
>  
>
> Gran Compe Brake Lever Set GC202H Brown Hood - $50 (Installed and used 
> less than 10 miles)
>
>  
>
> Rack 
>
> Soma Rack Champs-Elysees Stainless Rear - $100 (Installed and used less 
> than 50 miles)
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Which Dyno Hub?

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I agree with all that has been said so far.  I have a Shimano dynohub, an
SP dyno and an SON.  The Shimano is known to have slightly more drag than
the SON and the SP is pretty close to the SON. I have been commuting on my
Shimano for years (and previously on the SP for years on another bike) with
no problems, but it doesn't get cold in CA and it doesn't rain that much. I
would go with the SON for weather-related reasons (as mentioned earlier)
and style-related--it looks nicer, but I don't think sturdiness of wheel or
reliability is a major concern (unless you are really hard on your wheels),
as all of these hubs have been ridden for thousands of miles and I have not
heard of any spoke/hub breaks or other issues from any of the brands.

The only other reason for the SON that I can think of is if you are riding
at your limit or where a few extra minutes and slightly less effort means
getting more rest on a long ride (e.g. a brevet), then that would be worth
it for me (I have one on my rando bike--the extra bling doesn't hurt too
:-).

Toshi in Oakland, CA

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Re: [RBW] High bars at a club ride

[amillhench]

I’ve got Boscos, Toscos, Rene Herse Maes os, and Some HWY onecos. I’ve ridden 
albatross, bull horns, fun3s, high risers, etc.

They’re great. Having strong feelings about a handlebar seems strange to me. I 
like the multiple positions on a drop bar as much as I like the upright 
position on albatross’.

Just like cruising can be as much or less fun as a group ride. 

I admire Leah for not letting preconceived notions prevent her from trying new 
things. I’ve been shunned by roadies at group rides and hipsters at critical 
mass. Laugh it off and eat some tacos.

Best,

Aaron in El Paso

On Jul 27, 2022, at 08:13, Tom Wyland  wrote:

OK, I used to be all against the idea of riding in circles for sport.  I'm all 
about riding to get somewhere or do something, not just riding loops.  Then 
Covid lockdown hit  and I didn't bike to work, there was nothing open, and I 
didn't want to be exercising my lungs in the grocery store after riding there.  
So I found myself riding in circles.  So I guess it's not that dumb after all. 
I just wish people would take a relaxing ride once and a while instead of 
sprinting everywhere.

I'm 100% with the comment from Max S on Chilling/Cruising/Jamming positions.  
All bars should have them.

Tom, who recently switched to Bosco Bars


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Re: [RBW] High bars at a club ride

[Tom Wyland]

OK, I used to be all against the idea of riding in circles for sport.  I'm 
all about riding to get somewhere or do something, not just riding loops.  
Then Covid lockdown hit  and I didn't bike to work, there was nothing open, 
and I didn't want to be exercising my lungs in the grocery store after 
riding there.  So I found myself riding in circles.  So I guess it's not 
that dumb after all. I just wish people would take a relaxing ride once and 
a while instead of sprinting everywhere.

I'm 100% with the comment from Max S on Chilling/Cruising/Jamming 
positions.  All bars should have them.

Tom, who recently switched to Bosco Bars


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Re: [RBW] High bars at a club ride

[Brian Turner]

I've always been a "to each their own" kind of person when it comes to 
bikes, and whatever gets anyone out riding and enjoying their bike(s) is a 
very good thing. However, all of this discussion centering around the 
controversies and drama of club rides just further cements my antipathy 
towards club riding.

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 8:27:14 AM UTC-4 ascpgh wrote:

> It really boils down to manners and the realm of empathy, which is 
> something I have seen dwindling in the subsequent ranks of roles in my 
> healthcare workplace. Any activity one participates in has certain 
> participant etiquette, even bar room brawls. In group bicycle rides I have 
> even had my randonneur drop bars questioned by a new to cycling cyclist 
> because of my bar end shifters. "Those are dangerous, you have to take your 
> hand off the brake levers to shift them". There is a whole lot egocentrism 
> in that sort of projection. I refer to that as a bilateral thumb disease: 
> .[image: Screen Shot 2022-07-27 at 8.20.37 AM.png]
>
> What is dangerous is being a new rider thinking that your proceeds from a 
> Peloton at the gym and anything you bought make you a good rider. If your 
> brakes are the control you want most, you are still NIB as a rider.
>
> I invite all riders to cycling and joining group rides but new cyclists 
> need to be less self-focused and more outwardly observant to absorb from 
> experienced riders, passively or actively. Overtaking me on an upgrade then 
> cutting back in front of me by inches only to pull a bottle and take a 
> drink while wavering is newbie obtuseness. That sort of exuberance put a 
> rider (that one) on the ground last night on a beautiful fast downhill on 
> brand new asphalt. Another went down because of a very poor condition 
> section of concrete with eroded open joints and fist-sized rocks that have 
> evulsed from them.
>
> I was the only rider with fenders and on one downhill stretch all others 
> around me were in their wobbly tucks "to go faster".  I overtly sat up as 
> high as I could in the air and only then was able to stop continuous 
> braking to keep from needing to cross the center line and pass while 
> coasting on my big gushy 650Bx42s amongst all their rock hard 700x<28s. 
>
> What things that make my bike faster? I realize green comes after red and 
> the cross street turns yellow just before that progression. I can clip into 
> my pedal without looking, before I want to start moving and momentarily 
> track stand until I'm clear to pedal onward. I can remember that if I come 
> to a stop when pushing a heroic gear that I will have to begin pedaling 
> from a standstill and downshift into a gear that makes that possible. Those 
> three things alone contribute to put me off the front, regardless of how 
> "fast" those new riders' bikes are or how slow they think mine is. 
>
> Experience counts more than hardware, which long time riders change with 
> some frequency. Knowing when someone else had made a conscious decisions 
> about their bike gear should be clue enough for one to keep their opinion 
> to themselves. Especially when their "OTC crotch rockets" (that's awesome 
> Marc!) have not been altered from the box, even bar tape or tires. 
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 1:22:27 PM UTC-4 Wesley wrote:
>
>> Agree with Bones. Everyone should ride the bike that makes them happiest, 
>> but based on my experience experimenting with all different kinds of bars, 
>> I can''t imagine that every single roadie would prefer drop bars if they 
>> gave other options a chance.
>> -W
>>
>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 6:09:20 AM UTC-7 Bones wrote:
>>
>>> I think that's the whole point. Drop bars are the only option on many 
>>> over the counter crotch rockets. Many people are not aware of the "endless 
>>> way(s) to ride." 
>>>
>>> Bones
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 8:52:55 AM UTC-4 jo...@chilmarkresearch.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Garth, couldn’t have said it better myself.
 Whatever works for YOU is all that counts…
 …though I have been known to give pointers to relatively new riders on 
 form, cadence, gearing etiquette, etc. to help them maintain pace in a 
 paceline. 

 Johnnysmooth 

 On Jul 26, 2022, at 8:44 AM, Garth  wrote:

 

 I've ridden many a mile and raced with quite low drops bars. I've 
 ridden many a mile with with quite high Albatross bars. 

 I've ridden many a mile with "regular/street" clothes. I've ridden many 
 a mile with "cycling specific" clothes. 

 Day/night/up/down and all around . 

 Who/what is to say one "position/way" is better than any other ?

 That "who/what" is but the given position trying to justify itself !  
  Not the rider, the one riding. These "positions" take many forms, be it 
 formations of size and shape or thoughts/opinions/attitudes inwards and 
 outwards towards "others". Sometimes 

Re: [RBW] Re: High bars at a club ride

[Nick Payne]

I dislike flat handlebars so much that back in the days when I had an MTB, 
I took the flat bars off it and substituted drop bars after the first 
couple of rides. Drop bars offer multiple different hand positions, which I 
find very useful on long rides: 

   1. holding the straight section of the bar each side of the stem
   2. hands on the curve of the bars behind the brake levers 
   3. hands on the brake hoods with the body of the lever between thumb and 
   forefinger
   4. top of the lever hood hooked into the base of my palm, with my 
   forearms resting on the bars behind the lever
   5. on the drops
   
When I'm riding away from traffic, I probably spend more time in position 4 
than any of the others. I have the tops of the bars pretty level with the 
saddle.

Nick

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Re: [RBW] Homer 6 months review and questions

[Roberta]

It took a few tries rearranging the stem bag connections to make mine work. 

The stickstand worked very well but wasn’t practical enough for me, when 
leaving and coming back home. Bikes are in my small living room behind a 
chair. Take off stand and move bike around chair to open area. Stand on. 
Open front door and gate, stand off, take bike outside (90* angle to get 
through narrow front door), down steps, stand on. go back to lock door and 
gate and then leave, stand off. The opposite to return.   

If it weren’t for the inconvenience of getting in and out my front door 
(THAT is my real annoyance) , I’d have kept I that stand. It worked very 
well and I used it for about a 1 1/2 years. I would recommend it for 
lighter bikes like Homer and Sam, not for longer bikes like Platypus. 
Greenfield 
kickstand now on both bikes only because it’s annoying enough just getting 
out the front door and easy to just kick the stand.  

I did like that the weight wasn't on the bike when I had to lift it and 
saved about 1/2 lb. 

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 11:06:06 PM UTC-4 atreya...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks Roberta. That was a very interesting read. How convinent are those 
> kick stands? 
>
> PS: I have choco moose on my Atlantis. I love them! It introduced me to 
> chocos and I think they are my # favorites right now. But I am thinking of 
> swapping to regular chocos as they dont play well with my stem bag. 
>
>
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 1:55:04 AM UTC-7 Roberta wrote:
>
>> Deepak,
>>
>> Congratulations on your Homer/Atlantis combo. I had a Homer/Appaloosa 
>> combo, with nearly the same setup (and same order of ownership), size and 
>> impressions as as you. I think these two bikes complement each other well.  
>> I 
>> even did the lightening up process. I’m glad I did because it helped both 
>> bikes ride better, yet still different from each other. Love the dynamo 
>> lights and tubeless.  I rode both bikes equally.  You can read about it 
>> here:
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/pWpMrkiVUlk/m/eVByOom6CQAJ 
>>  
>>
>> The only thing I changed after the project was that I put the original 
>> choco moose handlebar back on th Appa, as that bar was the perfect bar for 
>> me on that bike. 
>>
>> I’m still in love with my lively riding Homer but sold the Appaloosa to 
>> have room for a Platypus. The decision to sell the Appaloosa rather than 
>> Homer was that I don’t ride off-road or tour, not that I didn’t like it’s 
>> smooth buttery ride. 
>>
>> Btw, bikes can lose a lot of weight for free with lighter saddles, 
>> smaller bags, lighter or no fenders and racks. I have a 1.25 lb vs Nitto 
>> 2.5 lb rack. I changed Flyer for Selle Anatomica. Banana sac vs Carradice 
>> bag. Some items are worth the weight, like your  aforementioned 
>> kickstand—so darn practical. 
>>
>> Roberta
>>
>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 12:15:22 AM UTC-4 atreya...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Here is pic from my evening ride today :-)
>>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>>
>>> Cheers ,
>>> Deepak
>>>
>>> On Jul 25, 2022, at 21:14, atreya...@gmail.com  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> I have had my homer for 6 months . After lot of experimenting , 
>>> obsessing qnd tweaking i am almost 99% there ( in the process I have a mini 
>>> nitto shop with almost all variations of handlebars !which I will try to 
>>> find a good home for when I get  to it ) . The more I tweak and better it 
>>> gets,  more I obsesss , funny how that works !
>>>
>>> I love this bike ! It is super comfortable but yet super responsive in 
>>> handling . I am invariably smiling and instantly in a good mood every time 
>>> I ride it even if just for 10 minutes! 
>>>
>>> It feels super nimble and responsive compared to my Atlantis ( which is 
>>> my first love and forever bike for different reasons ) and want to further 
>>> differentiate between the two .So this brings me to my question 
>>>
>>>1. Compared to my Atlantis it weighs just 4 lbs less (28 vs 32 ) . 
>>>How much of this handling difference is due to weight compared geometry 
>>> and 
>>>tubing stiffness ? I am also pretty light weight between 160-165 lbs so 
>>>might be little more sensitive to weight changes on bike . 
>>>2. If it’s weight ? Is it worth to chase some more weight savings ? 
>>>I want to set it up as lightweight go around town for fun type of bike 
>>>while Atlantis would do longer touring/hauling , trails etc. I am 
>>> surprised 
>>>when I see numbers close to 25lb or under . I have no racks or fenders , 
>>> so 
>>>where can those weight saving come from ? I am not willing to sacrifice 
>>>comfort ( pedals and leather saddle ) and definitely not my kick stand 
>>> :-) 
>>>. Below is my current set up 
>>>
>>> Size : 54.5 
>>>
>>> Wheels : pacenti brevet with son28 dynamo and 
>>>
>>> Tires : RH squanomie pass standard (tubeless)
>>>
>>> Shimano hub ( I have realized the use case for dynamo for my riding is 
>>> pretty limited so 

Re: [RBW] Re: High bars at a club ride

[Leah Peterson]

Max, you forgot your favorite riding position: NO HANDS.

Joe, the club folks are really, really nice. The young racers in the super-fast 
groups don’t talk to us, but I guess I don’t talk to them, either, so…

> On Jul 26, 2022, at 11:23 PM, Max S  wrote:
> 
> I think that's just part of the design intent for the bike, and the reason 
> the drop bar is such a persistent design element. I think that on a properly 
> set-up road bike, I should have at least 3 positions: 1) Chillin', 2) 
> Groovin', and 3) Jammin' – tops, hoods, and drops, respectively. When I'm 
> "Chillin'", I want to be comfortable, and my position may not be all that 
> different than when I'm riding my commuter bike with swept-back bars. 
> 
> - Max "gotta work on my flexibility as I age" in A2
> 
>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 5:14:52 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>> What the dropbar riders would tell you is they have the option of that 
>> higher position plus a lower one. Which is fair if you're going to use it, 
>> but in all my years of riding drops I hardly ever did. Gimme my Billies! 
>> 
>> Joe "upright and catching wind as the Good Lord intended" Bernard
>> 
>>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 4:29:03 AM UTC-7 Marc Irwin wrote:
>>> It was a normal Monday night ride with the Kalamazoo Bicycle Club.  A 
>>> typical group was riding 15-16 MPH for 25 or so miles.  A good bunch of 
>>> people in biking regalia on their over the counter crotch rockets with drop 
>>> bars, except for me and Leah Peterson on our Rivendells. with upright bars. 
>>>In the lousy cell phone shot I took from the back of the group, Leah is 
>>> the second white helmet from from the front left.  Notice her posture 
>>> compared to the body position of all the riders on their drop bars.
>>> 
>>> It was that way the whole ride. Most club riders assume their drop bars 
>>> make them faster, after all, EVERYBODY uses them right?  
>>> 
>>> Marc
> 
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