date:20230301

If you still have it, my friend offered to build me a tall bike and I could 
use it for that.

On Saturday, February 25, 2023 at 11:55:27 PM UTC-5 R. Alexis wrote:

> Benjamin,
>
> Do you still have the Susie frame and fork? 
>
> Thanks,
>
> Reginald Alexis
>
> On Saturday, June 4, 2022 at 3:20:02 PM UTC-5 benjami...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> [image: image.jpg][image: image.jpg][image: image.jpg]
>>
>> On Saturday, June 4, 2022 at 3:48:41 PM UTC-4 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Echoing Keith with “bummer”, but I gotta say I can’t see any downsides 
>>> to fillet brazing here. The steel tore alongside the fillet. The fact that 
>>> it’s actually torn and not cracked there is as much proof as I’d need to 
>>> have trust in the bronze union. That said, I’d love to see some closeups as 
>>> well, if it’s not too heart wrenching to post…
>>> -Kai
>>>
>>> On Saturday, June 4, 2022 at 12:37:28 PM UTC-4 iamkeith wrote:
>>>
 Gosh, what a bummer.  So sorry that happened, and hope insurance will 
 make you whole.  This does seem to illustrate the down-side to fillet/tig 
 construction and curved tubes.  I imagine that it will be difficult to 
 repair.   Unless it's just too painful, I'd love to see some close-up 
 shots 
 of the fillet joints on the damaged tubes, to see how they faired and to 
 understand their limitations/strengths better.  Trying to make lemonade, I 
 guess. 

 On Saturday, June 4, 2022 at 9:28:42 AM UTC-6 benjami...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> This size L Susie frame fell off a rack on the highway. Top and down 
> tube are obviously broken but rear triangle and head tube seem fine. Free 
> if you pay for shipping.
>
> [image: BEA2F3C4-2C2F-43FE-A7BB-06741817CE6A.jpeg]



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[RBW] Re: The Riv goes "Spinal Tap"

The bike nerdery is the best part of the whole thing.  This is the one 
place that we can all appreciate it.  Thanks for the post.  Friction and 
bar ends are the way to go!

On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 12:02:54 PM UTC-5 Drew Saunders wrote:

> Nick,
>
> Thanks for that information. This explains all the various options well: 
> https://brainybiker.com/can-you-put-an-11-speed-cassette-on-a-10-speed-hub-fast-answer/
>
> Shimano’s SLX line is reasonably affordable, and they make an 11-40. More 
> stuff to contemplate for next winter.
>
> Drew
>
> On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 2:23:27 AM UTC-8 Nick Payne wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, 26 February 2023 at 9:11:13 am UTC+11 Drew Saunders wrote:
>>
>> The hub on the Ibis is 8/9/10 only, but I may convert it to 2x10 next 
>> rainy season.
>>
>>
>> The Shimano 11-34 11s cassettes fit fine on 8/9/10-speed HG hubs. As do 
>> all the larger 11s MTB cassettes. The bracing angle of the spokes means 
>> that the large cog on those cassettes can sit further inwards than the 
>> large cog on smaller cassettes, so they are made with the large cog 
>> overhanging to the inside, and will fit on the older hubs. If you fit one 
>> of those cassettes to a hub intended for 11s road cassettes, you need to 
>> fit a 1.8mm spacer on the inside of the cassette, or the lockring will 
>> bottom out before it has tightened on the cassette.
>>
>> Nick Payne
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Riv Riders in Western NC

Should we shoot for Boone or Asheville?   What month?  Mileage?

On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 1:01:38 PM UTC-5 River Bailey wrote:

> Also in Indy and could travel down with Eric for a Riv ride.
>
> River
>
> On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 12:07:39 PM UTC-5 EGNolan wrote:
>
>> I'm throwing my name in the hat to join along. I'm in Indianapolis, but 
>> my in-laws are in Spruce Pine just off the Parkway and I'm keen to ride in 
>> the area with other Riv-folk.
>>
>> Best,
>> Eric 
>> On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 9:08:33 AM UTC-5 Dick Pahle wrote:
>>
>>> Be happy to come up to Boone too. 
>>>
>>> Dick
>>>
>>> On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 1:36:56 AM UTC-5 fiddl...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Just putting my name down in the "happy to travel from Knoxville for a 
 Riv-ride" column...

 On Thursday, February 16, 2023 at 9:38:04 AM UTC-5 Dick Pahle wrote:

> I am out of my league when it comes to orgainizing things (anything). 
> Pam in Charlotte (on this list) is much better at it than me as she does 
> it 
> all the time. Downside is she doesn't know the area all that well. Could 
> be 
> wrong about that. 
>
> Would enjoy a group ride and would be cool to get others from as far 
> away as Kentucky and/or Knoxville Tn to join us. If anybody wants to stay 
> overnight Jann and I have two guest bedrooms and lots of floorspace for 
> those who may not mind crashing there in a sleeping bag. Neat little 50's 
> style motel nearby too.  Lots of camping options including backcountry in 
> the Pisgah National Forest. 
>
> 99% of my road riding is slow and solo. Leave from my house for 
> various amounts of time and distance, based on how my 73 year old body 
> feels at the time. 
>
> Thinking out loud...many good local shops in town. They could 
> suggest routes. Or we could do a section of the Blue Ridge Parkway which 
> would mean out and back or arranging for some kind of shuttle service. 
> Parkway is beautiful. Lots of 'scenic overlook spots' every few miles. 
> Hilly in lots of places. As best I can recall the elevation along the 
> ridge 
> near us is 3 to 5,000 feet. Riding up to the Parkway and back from 
> Brevard 
> would be about 30 miles, round trip. Or longer if you wanted to add some 
> parkway miles once we got up there. For me, that would be a hard ride. 
>
> What's next? Does someone here wanna organize? All done on this thread 
> or do we start a new one?
>
> Spring and fall are georgeous here. Summer too but it can be hot and 
> humid. Plus, we are in a temperate rain forest so it rains a lot. 
>
> Had no idea my post looking for Rivs in the area would generate this 
> kinda response. It's great!!!
>
> Dick
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 2:24:27 PM UTC-5 steve...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Dick, just saying "thank you" for kicking off this thread. 
>> Interesting to see the number of Riv riders in the area.
>>
>> If you ever take a notion to organize a Brevard area ride for Riv 
>> riders (and Riv curious, like myself) I'd be interested. Between the 
>> Brevard paved greenway network, the dirt trail into the National Forest 
>> at 
>> Pisgah Forest and the breweries/eateries along the greenway - and 
>> whatever 
>> routes you Brevard locals keep secret - I bet a low key party pace ride 
>> could be a fun event. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 14, 2023 at 9:31:53 AM UTC-5 Dick Pahle wrote:
>>
>>> Thanx to all responding to my western NC post. Good to know. 
>>> First..to Pamtook your CC class in Clt few years ago. Still 
>>> benefitting from it. Good friend of David S who I think  is member of 
>>> this 
>>> group too. To Michaelwill keep eyes open for your father here 
>>> in 
>>> Brevard. At 73, I'm guessing I'm as old or older than him. :-) To Steve 
>>> in 
>>> Asheville. I know the areas you mention well. The hills around here can 
>>> be 
>>> brutal, especially for an old slow guy like me. 
>>>
>>> I've ridden from my home in Brevard to the Parkway (Blue Ridge 
>>> Parkway) once, up 276 and back down. ~ 40 miles round trip with tough 
>>> elevation gain, especially the last few miles, before heading back 
>>> down. 
>>> Ever thankful for my super comfortable 61 Homer that Keven helped me 
>>> with 
>>> back when he was still at Riv. Great guy. 
>>>
>>> I get the usual comments about my bike. Nice bike! How old is it? 
>>> Among others.
>>>
>>> Dick
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, February 14, 2023 at 8:58:27 AM UTC-5 lconley wrote:
>>>
 I don't live in NC, but my sister lives in Pittsboro, and I 
 generally make it up there a couple of times a year. I will be there

Re: [RBW] Hand-Wringing: Kickstand Edition

Of course we all understand.  I don't mind the looks of the new one and 
would be willing to try it but then you said it rattled.  i don't like a 
noisy bike.  I don't mind something a little weird looking if it's more 
functional.  Does it at least work well?  Change is hard when you loved 
what you had and just want that but it did break so you do want better.  
But the new one should work better and look better too.  Can't wait to see 
pictures of what you decide.  

Along the same lines, I put on a new seat post and no one will ever know 
the difference but it bugs me that it doesn't look the same.  So I know how 
you feel.  It's a problem we all can relate to.

On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 10:03:21 PM UTC-5 JW wrote:

> I have full faith you can swap the new kickstand on when it arrives, no 
> reason to outsource that labor with your newfound bike mechanic skills!
>
> Jared
>
> On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 6:43:45 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Bikepacking Essentials: On Finding Goldilocks

2023-03-01 Thread John Rinker

Hey Damon,

I've mostly used the Nitto mini-front 32F sold by Riv and (please don't 
tell anyone) even though it's rated to 4.4lbs (I seem to remember 7lbs when 
I got it) I've carried way more than that on occasion. Typically, I would 
say- tent, stool, slops, frisbee, some food, cool trail finds- I carry 
probably 5-7lbs. 

I also have a Nitto basket rack RBW52F which I've been using when I don't 
carry panniers on my hub-area rack (which doesn't work with the basket 
rack).

When I carry panniers, my basket load is less because all food items are in 
those.

Cheers,
John

On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 7:26:00 PM UTC-8 DamonLee wrote:

> Hi John, thanks for the lists. I was going to ask in the other thread but 
> seems better to do it here: What rack do you use for the 139 Wald? Do you 
> know roughly how much weight goes in there?
> Thanks,
> Damo
>
> On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 10:44:31 AM UTC+11 John Rinker wrote:
>
>> Moving this over from Johnny's 'Fitting the Hunqapillar' thread and in 
>> response to Jay's inquiry about my essential packing list for touring. 
>>
>> Of course, some of it depends on the nature of the tour itself: climate, 
>> remoteness, and goals for the trip. For example, on the Great Divide, I 
>> packed my tenkara rod and for the Cabo loop, I swapped it out for a mask 
>> and snorkel. When I rode the Annapurna Circuit I didn't pack shelter or 
>> kitchen as I stayed in tea houses and ate dahl bat. 
>>
>> As examples, here are packing lists from the two very different trips 
>> mentioned above. 
>>
>> The Great Divide (2018) 
>> 
>>
>> The Cabo Loo (2023) 
>> 
>>
>> Sadly, the photos are the same, but the Cabo Loop list is more 
>> representative of what I've learned that I'd rather not be without on any 
>> journey. 
>>
>> The clothing in the Great Divide list was basically cut in half before I 
>> left- where there are 2s, I kept 1. I did retain both pairs of sandals- a 
>> small luxury after a long day in the saddle. Neither did I end up carrying 
>> so many water bottles, and I have since swapped out the MSR gravity filter 
>> for a Steri-Pen UV filter. 
>>
>> Didn't take my full spice kit on the Baja Divide because I'd planned to 
>> live on fish tacos the whole time (very tricky in the mountains!). I no 
>> longer take the Nikon as my iPhone 8 takes fine snaps, I leave the Garmin 
>> GPS as I use GaiaGPS on my device, and I've swapped out my tripod stool for 
>> a lighter Japanese folding stool. 
>>
>> I love my Big Agnes CopperSpur tent but wanted to spend some time getting 
>> good at setting up my Mountain Laurel Designs Trailstar tarp in the deep 
>> sand of Cabo where tent stakes are useless. 
>>
>> As far as essentials, hmm? My Marmot sleeping bag, a water bottle, my 
>> tool roll, down jacket, wool undies, bandanas, rain gear, and camp slops.
>>
>> Anyways, that's my thinking on packing on wilderness-focused tours. 
>>
>> I'd love to hear what you've gleaned from your experience and what you 
>> consider your essentials when heading into the mountains.
>>
>> Cheers, John
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Wool Bob-ish Clothes - Ibex, Icebreaker, Pendleton, Smartwool

2023-03-01 Thread Michael Ullmer

And sold, thanks all!

On Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 8:59:18 PM UTC-6 Michael Ullmer wrote:

> Ibex Merino is all that remains:
>
> Ibex 100% 17.5 Merino SS Black Polo Medium - $30
> --No holes or stains, excellent shape
>
> On Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 2:55:24 PM UTC-6 Michael Ullmer wrote:
>
>> An update on what remains:
>>
>> 1) Smartwool Merino SS Red Polo Medium- $25
>> --No holes or stains, excellent shape.
>>
>> 2) Ibex Merino SS Black Polo Medium - $30
>> --No holes or stains, excellent shape
>>
>> 5) Icebreaker Lodge LS Flannel Shirt Medium - $35
>> --Excellent shape, no holes or staining.
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 12:30:19 PM UTC-6 Michael Ullmer wrote:
>>
>>> Cross post from the i-bob list:
>>>
>>> The annual clearout of the closet is here:
>>>
>>> 1) Smartwool Merino SS Red Polo Medium- $25
>>> --No holes or stains, excellent shape.
>>>
>>> 2) Ibex Merino SS Black Polo Medium - $30
>>> --No holes or stains, excellent shape
>>>
>>> 3) Icebreaker Merino SS Snap Button Up Small - $15
>>> --Two small holes on front bottom left and under right pit and some 
>>> staining on the collar. Also some fraying on the right sleeve seam. All 
>>> snaps and zips work great. This fits like a small and was an excellent 
>>> riding shirt with the pit vents and snaps. Sorry to see this go, but it no 
>>> longer fits me.
>>>
>>> 4) Pendleton Decade Shirt LS Medium - $20
>>> --This is a much softer wool material than typical Pendletons. Excellent 
>>> shape, no holes or stains.
>>>
>>> 5) Icebreaker Lodge LS Flannel Shirt Medium - $35
>>> --Excellent shape, no holes or staining.
>>>
>>> Prices are net to me and don't include shipping. I'll plan on shipping 
>>> via Pirateship.
>>>
>>> Pics here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/2PYkCzroTi12V4UL6
>>>
>>> PM off-list
>>>
>>> Mike in Minneapolis
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: 2023 March 1 Bikes for sale thread: Craigslist etc.

2023-03-01 Thread Luke Hendrickson

Such a dreamy build…

On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 7:23:03 PM UTC-8 Matthew P wrote:

> Starting with this Legolas in Portland that I've thought about buying 
> myself:
>
>
> https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/d/portland-rivendell-legolas-59cm/7591649041.html
>
> Full build details are available here:
>
> https://quicklywilliam.notion.site/Rivendell-Legolas-93889153504547b79fba9a124170c60d
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Bikepacking Essentials: On Finding Goldilocks

2023-03-01 Thread DamonLee

Hi John, thanks for the lists. I was going to ask in the other thread but 
seems better to do it here: What rack do you use for the 139 Wald? Do you 
know roughly how much weight goes in there?
Thanks,
Damo

On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 10:44:31 AM UTC+11 John Rinker wrote:

> Moving this over from Johnny's 'Fitting the Hunqapillar' thread and in 
> response to Jay's inquiry about my essential packing list for touring. 
>
> Of course, some of it depends on the nature of the tour itself: climate, 
> remoteness, and goals for the trip. For example, on the Great Divide, I 
> packed my tenkara rod and for the Cabo loop, I swapped it out for a mask 
> and snorkel. When I rode the Annapurna Circuit I didn't pack shelter or 
> kitchen as I stayed in tea houses and ate dahl bat. 
>
> As examples, here are packing lists from the two very different trips 
> mentioned above. 
>
> The Great Divide (2018) 
> 
>
> The Cabo Loo (2023) 
> 
>
> Sadly, the photos are the same, but the Cabo Loop list is more 
> representative of what I've learned that I'd rather not be without on any 
> journey. 
>
> The clothing in the Great Divide list was basically cut in half before I 
> left- where there are 2s, I kept 1. I did retain both pairs of sandals- a 
> small luxury after a long day in the saddle. Neither did I end up carrying 
> so many water bottles, and I have since swapped out the MSR gravity filter 
> for a Steri-Pen UV filter. 
>
> Didn't take my full spice kit on the Baja Divide because I'd planned to 
> live on fish tacos the whole time (very tricky in the mountains!). I no 
> longer take the Nikon as my iPhone 8 takes fine snaps, I leave the Garmin 
> GPS as I use GaiaGPS on my device, and I've swapped out my tripod stool for 
> a lighter Japanese folding stool. 
>
> I love my Big Agnes CopperSpur tent but wanted to spend some time getting 
> good at setting up my Mountain Laurel Designs Trailstar tarp in the deep 
> sand of Cabo where tent stakes are useless. 
>
> As far as essentials, hmm? My Marmot sleeping bag, a water bottle, my tool 
> roll, down jacket, wool undies, bandanas, rain gear, and camp slops.
>
> Anyways, that's my thinking on packing on wilderness-focused tours. 
>
> I'd love to hear what you've gleaned from your experience and what you 
> consider your essentials when heading into the mountains.
>
> Cheers, John
>

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[RBW] 2023 March 1 Bikes for sale thread: Craigslist etc.

2023-03-01 Thread Matthew P

Starting with this Legolas in Portland that I've thought about buying 
myself:

https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/d/portland-rivendell-legolas-59cm/7591649041.html

Full build details are available here:
https://quicklywilliam.notion.site/Rivendell-Legolas-93889153504547b79fba9a124170c60d

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Re: [RBW] Hand-Wringing: Kickstand Edition

I have full faith you can swap the new kickstand on when it arrives, no 
reason to outsource that labor with your newfound bike mechanic skills!

Jared

On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 6:43:45 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

>

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Bosco 58cm Aluminum Handlebars

Deal struck, thanks!

On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 5:51:57 PM UTC-8 JW wrote:

> Might consider Boscomoose as well!
>
> On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 5:49:29 PM UTC-8 JW wrote:
>
>> Hey group,
>>
>> Looking for some 58cm Bosco bars.
>>
>> Have some Billie bars to trade if interested.
>>
>> Please respond off list, thanks :)
>>
>> Jared in SLO, CA
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Hand-Wringing: Kickstand Edition

2023-03-01 Thread Leah Peterson

This is the response I was hoping for! Lol, you get it completely and I sympathize with your hand-wringing about bolts being original and the final washer/spacer misalignment. I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND. I’m glad to know I’m not the only one.Kim, thank you so much for the offer - it’s so kind. I actually purchased the Pletscher that I originally wanted, and I’ll get it on there soon. Save your Clem kickstand - you may need it someday!I should also clear the name of the good bike shop here - I probably didn’t word it well in that hurried post last night. They tried to get the exact kickstand I wanted and only realized after it arrived that it was for a rear mount and not the center mount I needed. Not having access to that version, they chose another kickstand they thought I would like. They just don’t know me well enough to know I’d hate that kickstand. So, all is forgiven and I will never mention it to them. If I can’t install the new kickstand myself I’ll slink off to the bike shop across town and have them do it. And my local shop will be none the wiser!I’ll send a video of the two kickstands in the next post. The PDW stand vibrates so much that the frame even shakes, or it seems to. Might be loud/annoying on rough roads. It also looks huge on my bike and that’s my club riding bike - already an anomaly - and I don’t need one more thing to make even weirder.I swapped the racks back on my Platy tonight but didn’t get to ride it yet. I’ll ride it and see what I think of that kickstand while I wait for the new one to arrive.LeahOn Mar 1, 2023, at 3:33 PM, 'Slacky Mac' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:<3B20619C-8CE8-425D-83AE-E1AED31FD684.jpeg>Poking my head in to say that this is the most entertaining and affirming thread I have ever seen on these pages during my short tenure!From the Kindrid Spirits Club, the attached pic shows my recent level of kickstand obsession. I hacksawed, ground, and polished the aluminum slab that typically goes atop the chainstays to use as a thick spacer/washer to relieve the stress accompanying the deployment of the kickstand. For it is my own theory that the vibration associated with the kickstand use (ya know, the bb sound) led to the premature kickstand plate failure on certain Riv bikes. Oh sure, I am conveniently ignoring that this is the most stressed area of the bike. (Let’s not let the facts get in the way of a good argument.) Keen eyes will note that I also used the Riv sourced Greenfield bolt to secure the kickstand, having hacksawed, ground and polished that to size as it was far too long for this custom use. Oh sure, I could have sourced the proper sized bolt at my local hardware store, but then it would not have been an original part, now would it?Yes, it drives me crazy that my custom Greenfield washer/spacer has a misalignment. I will remedy that when I remove the kickstand to shorten it using my micrometer for measurement as it needs to lean over .783 degrees further to feel just right. All this to say, Leah, I get it!

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis Old vs New?

2023-03-01 Thread dougP

You've fallen down a useful & informative rabbit hole. 

I have a 58 cm Atlantis that I bought from Rivendell in 2003 (now 20 yo!). 
I've used it extensively for loaded touring & it is everything everyone 
says. Good handling, versatile, able to carry loads front & rear, etc. I've 
done some off roading but mostly fire roads & easy trails. No technical 
single track. IMHO it would be the bike for the type of use as you describe 
it. The Atlantis 2 was 700c in 58 cm & larger, and 26" in 56 cm & smaller. 

The newer versions have more wheel sizes, including some in 650B. There is 
a rare Waterford version that was a bridge between Toyo & Taiwan. They were 
only built for a year or so, and feature slightly longer chainstays than 
the 2s but not the noticeably longer ones of the MITs. I rode one of these 
at RBWHQ, not realizing there was any difference. I immediately noticed the 
ride quality was more cushy than mine. I couldn't figure out what had 
changed, & the person I talked to just said vaguely "Oh, we fiddled with 
the geometry a little bit" but didn't elaborate.

Later, I rode a MIT version, 53 cm IIRC, and the ride was positively plush 
compared to mine. I got onto some easy trails for a few miles & it felt 
fine, even around fairly tight corners. No gnarly single track. 

One thing to be aware of is toe clip overlap. I have size 11 feet & 
sometimes hit the tire if making a tight, low speed turn. Not a major issue 
but it does bother some people. For many it's not a consideration. I 
believe the new geometries push the front wheel further out so this may no 
longer be an issue. I ride flat pedals so my feet can wander around. 

Regarding shipping, I have shipped my 58 cm quite a few times, including 
Europe. It's definitely a big bike to pack. Everything comes of (racks, 
etc.) to get it into a box. If shipping is in your plans, I'd definitely 
ask about packing a MIT Atlantis. 

Best of luck in your search.

Doug Peterson,
Irvine, CA

On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 2:32:16 PM UTC-8 Bill Schairer wrote:

> I've got an Atlantis2 I bought used in 2017.  I've ridden it between Banff 
> and Helena on the Great Divide Mountain Bike Route route fully loaded with 
> 700C 50mm tires and it did just fine.  There isn't much single track and I 
> tipped over a couple times on that but attribute to my lack of experience, 
> confidence, and skill rather than the bike.  Generally, I have zero 
> interest in technical single track.  This past summer I rode it from 
> Missoula to Denali NP fully loaded with 30mm tires up front and 40mm in the 
> rear.  Route included some 300 miles of gravel.  Again, it performed 
> wonderfully.  It is a very versatile bike that has done everything I've 
> asked of it.  I've put just shy of 13,000 miles on in the past 5 years.
>
> The new Atlantis looks like a completely different animal to me, one in 
> which I have no interest.  One of the guys on the Alaska trip said he had 
> an Atlantis but chose not to ride it on the trip because he couldn't get it 
> into a box.  I therefore assumed it to be the new model.  He rode a Surly 
> instead.
>
> Bill S 
> San Diego
>
> [image: Screenshot 2023-02-27 at 2.08.47 PM.png]
> On Montana gravel - bicycle heaven.
>
> [image: Untitled.jpg]
> Somewhere in BC or Yukon.  We had a stretch in the Yukon where we carried 
> 5 days of food.  Bike plus gear probably weighed in close to 100 lbs. the 
> first day of the carry.
>
> On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 12:18:16 PM UTC-8 bryan...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I just picked up a late 2000's Toyo Atlantis and I've ridden some of the 
>> longer chainstay more modern Rivendell frames. The biggest difference I 
>> think would be the chainstays for sure. The ride quality will be in my 
>> opinion vastly different, as the older Riv's had shorter (still longer for 
>> the time) chainstays keeping the bike a bit more nimble and quick as 
>> opposed to being super stable albeit a bit more "clumsy". An Atlantis 2 
>> with 26" wheels has plenty of possibilities. I'm sure you can clear real 
>> big tires if you wanted to, or go a more traditional tire with fenders and 
>> whatnot. 
>>
>> On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 1:35:26 AM UTC-5 tylerj...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I am searching for a used Atlantis as my introductory first, Rivendell, 
>>> during my fall into the rabbit hole of the internet and bike opinions. I 
>>> have been steered toward the newer model Atlantis, but the Atlantis 2's are 
>>> cheaper and more readily available. I want to know whether anyone has ever 
>>> ridden the Atlantis 2 & 3? I am looking for honest opinions on the frame 
>>> geometry and ride feel. I like the idea of riding a long, old, vintage 
>>> Cadillac of a frame unless it is very limiting. The newest Atlantis has a 
>>> very long chain stay, and I am curious as to how this compares with the 
>>> older models. I have a large interest in loaded touring and riding fire 
>>> roads here in Montana, but I mostly ride roads

[RBW] Re: WTB: Bosco 58cm Aluminum Handlebars

Might consider Boscomoose as well!

On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 5:49:29 PM UTC-8 JW wrote:

> Hey group,
>
> Looking for some 58cm Bosco bars.
>
> Have some Billie bars to trade if interested.
>
> Please respond off list, thanks :)
>
> Jared in SLO, CA
>

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[RBW] WTB: Bosco 58cm Aluminum Handlebars

Hey group,

Looking for some 58cm Bosco bars.

Have some Billie bars to trade if interested.

Please respond off list, thanks :)

Jared in SLO, CA

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[RBW] Bikepacking Essentials: On Finding Goldilocks

2023-03-01 Thread John Rinker

Moving this over from Johnny's 'Fitting the Hunqapillar' thread and in
response to Jay's inquiry about my essential packing list for touring.

Of course, some of it depends on the nature of the tour itself: climate,
remoteness, and goals for the trip. For example, on the Great Divide, I
packed my tenkara rod and for the Cabo loop, I swapped it out for a mask
and snorkel. When I rode the Annapurna Circuit I didn't pack shelter or
kitchen as I stayed in tea houses and ate dahl bat.

As examples, here are packing lists from the two very different trips
mentioned above.

The Great Divide (2018)

The Cabo Loo (2023)

Sadly, the photos are the same, but the Cabo Loop list is more
representative of what I've learned that I'd rather not be without on any
journey.

The clothing in the Great Divide list was basically cut in half before I
left- where there are 2s, I kept 1. I did retain both pairs of sandals- a
small luxury after a long day in the saddle. Neither did I end up carrying
so many water bottles, and I have since swapped out the MSR gravity filter
for a Steri-Pen UV filter.

Didn't take my full spice kit on the Baja Divide because I'd planned to
live on fish tacos the whole time (very tricky in the mountains!). I no
longer take the Nikon as my iPhone 8 takes fine snaps, I leave the Garmin
GPS as I use GaiaGPS on my device, and I've swapped out my tripod stool for
a lighter Japanese folding stool.

I love my Big Agnes CopperSpur tent but wanted to spend some time getting
good at setting up my Mountain Laurel Designs Trailstar tarp in the deep
sand of Cabo where tent stakes are useless.

As far as essentials, hmm? My Marmot sleeping bag, a water bottle, my tool
roll, down jacket, wool undies, bandanas, rain gear, and camp slops.

Anyways, that's my thinking on packing on wilderness-focused tours.

I'd love to hear what you've gleaned from your experience and what you
consider your essentials when heading into the mountains.

Cheers, John

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[RBW] Re: Fitting the Hunqapillar for touring

2023-03-01 Thread John Rinker

Johnny,

No, no real structural reason for the change, just an aesthetic decision. 
Or, maybe because I moved the light to the dropout. That rack is a Nitto 
R14 that 
I bought at BlueLug in Tokyo, and it's very well-built. It's similar to the 
RBW51 on the Riv site (a little more svelte, I believe). It is entirely 
adequate for Sackville support plus the sleeping bag, and much lighter than 
my Big Rack 33R from Riv. 

Jay, 

Yes, I've been fortunate to ride in some pretty special places. Perhaps 
rather than hijack Johnny's thread here I'll start a new thread "Jay's 
Goldilocks Packing List" or some such and share a couple of my packing 
lists. Perhaps there you could also share your 10 Bikepacking Essentials. 

John M,

I agree with Johnny, that dusty Hunq (on the Divide?) photo is sweet!

Cheers, John

On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 8:18:33 AM UTC-8 johnny@gmail.com wrote:

> I was hoping for some advice, but I got that and a bunch of awesome 
> photos. Just wow ya'll. And so many hunqapillars crawling around :) I'm 
> hearing a lighter rear rack and a larger trunk should do me nicely until i 
> get more serious. I'll see what I can find in terms of a sackville or 
> similar. John, comparing the two photos of your gorgeous blue hunq, it 
> looks like you changed the strut position of the rear rack from the lower 
> mount to a mid-mount. Any reason for that? 
>
> John H your dirty bike looks rad. 
>
> Edit, sorry for responding with the entire thread. 
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Clem for All Surfaces

2023-03-01 Thread DamonLee

I want a clem for this purpose, a true all rounder. I have a fendered bike 
with 40mm tires, boscos, basket, and a rigid MTB with 29x2.6 inche tires. A 
clem would be a sweet spot with 2.2's and fenders and basket. Enough 
cushion for the type of bush bashing I do. But fine on any surface. 

On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 8:47:01 AM UTC+11 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Yup! Just finished a very “chill” 40 mile road route. Average speed was 
> just over 12mph according to my phone app. It was a fair effort but nothing 
> really hard. It was not that long ago that I would do similar rides on my 
> road bike. In those days I might have averaged 17-18mph, but then I would 
> have been really trying. So not only do I agree the Clem is a suitable road 
> bike - I don’t think it is that much slower. If it is, it just does not 
> matter. I am too comfortable & having too much fun to care.:)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 1, 2023, at 11:17 AM, Doug H.  wrote:
>
> I thought on buying my Clem that long road rides wouldn't suit it but I 
> was wrong. Long AND fast? Well, I'm not a fast rider so don't know if both 
> can be achieved on a Clem but long road rides have become a staple in my 
> routine on my Clem. Last weekend I set out from the end of my driveway to 
> ride without a distance or direction in mind and ended up riding 45 miles 
> (photo from that ride below). At the end of that ride I was tired but had 
> no shoulder or back pain which I always did with dedicated "road bikes".  
> My Clem truly is my one bike for everything.
> Doug
>
> 
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 11:04:50 AM UTC-5 fiddl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> My Clem has easily obsoleted the full suspension as my go-to trail bike. 
>> Far more capable & fun on singletrack than I could have ever imagined. As 
>> in: this is a real, no joke mountain bike in 2023 on real 2023 mountain 
>> bike trails. Would I enjoy it on the really burly trails in Pisgah? 
>> Probably not as much, but for any sort of East Tennessee XC riding it has 
>> excelled. That alone would be impressive, but of course the beauty of the 
>> Clem is that I can use it for anything else short of a long/fast road ride. 
>> Oh, and the whole build was barely more than $2k...
>>
>> 64cm; 92ish PBH
>> Mezcals 2.6F, 2.25R (the 2.6 also barely fits in the rear - a 2.4 would 
>> be perfect)
>> Soma Osprey Bars
>> 1x7 with the 42t Jim Cassette & a clutch derailer (necessary if things 
>> get chunky with that long chain...)
>> kickstand & rack stay on :)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 8:34:54 PM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I could not agree more. I have been enjoying mixed surface rides more 
>>> often than not since getting the Clem 14 months ago. It’s always been fun 
>>> off road but the 55mm Simworks Homage tires have taken it up a notch. 
>>> [image: image1.jpeg]
>>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Feb 28, 2023, at 4:45 PM, DavidP  wrote:
>>>
>>> I find mixed surface rides to be so satisfying that almost all of my 
>>> bikes end up being setup for them to one degree or another. The majority of 
>>> Riv models are capable of them too. I built my Platypus with these types of 
>>> rides in mind - with 55mm front and 50mm rear tires and wide Tosco bars. 
>>> Looking forward to seeing more photos of Clems on dirt in this thread.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Dave
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 4:33:28 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 It's by no means a Clem, nor is it even a Rivendell, tho' a Rivendell 
 custom was its model, but this does very well on firm crusher fine acequia 
 Conservancy District roads and on impromptu unmaintained dirt shortcuts 
 between paved sections. 

 Rene Herse Extralight Naches Pass 559X42 cm at ~35/30 or 35/40 
 depending on load.

 [image: image.png]

 On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 12:32 PM Doug H.  wrote:

> I rode my Clem for a mile or so on single-track this weekend and I 
> have no complaints. Even with my narrow tires (Grand Bois Hetre 42 mm) I 
> had good results. If I were to intend on a longer ride I would install 
> wider tires and lower the pressure but I was doing mostly a road ride and 
> the single-track was an unplanned excursion. It is nice to be on a bike 
> that can handle most surfaces. The same ride included asphalt, gravel and 
> dirt! Anyone else do off-road riding on a Clem?
> Doug
> [image: image0.jpeg]
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/405ac496-a436-43b5-a6d4-af92d8a6099cn%40googlegroups.com
>  
>

Re: [RBW] Clem for All Surfaces

2023-03-01 Thread Richard Rose

Yup! Just finished a very “chill” 40 mile road route. Average speed was just over 12mph according to my phone app. It was a fair effort but nothing really hard. It was not that long ago that I would do similar rides on my road bike. In those days I might have averaged 17-18mph, but then I would have been really trying. So not only do I agree the Clem is a suitable road bike - I don’t think it is that much slower. If it is, it just does not matter. I am too comfortable & having too much fun to care.:)Sent from my iPhoneOn Mar 1, 2023, at 11:17 AM, Doug H. wrote:I thought on buying my Clem that long road rides wouldn't suit it but I was wrong. Long AND fast? Well, I'm not a fast rider so don't know if both can be achieved on a Clem but long road rides have become a staple in my routine on my Clem. Last weekend I set out from the end of my driveway to ride without a distance or direction in mind and ended up riding 45 miles (photo from that ride below). At the end of that ride I was tired but had no shoulder or back pain which I always did with dedicated "road bikes". My Clem truly is my one bike for everything.DougOn Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 11:04:50 AM UTC-5 fiddl...@gmail.com wrote:My Clem has easily obsoleted the full suspension as my go-to trail bike. Far more capable & fun on singletrack than I could have ever imagined. As in: this is a real, no joke mountain bike in 2023 on real 2023 mountain bike trails. Would I enjoy it on the really burly trails in Pisgah? Probably not as much, but for any sort of East Tennessee XC riding it has excelled. That alone would be impressive, but of course the beauty of the Clem is that I can use it for anything else short of a long/fast road ride. Oh, and the whole build was barely more than $2k...64cm; 92ish PBHMezcals 2.6F, 2.25R (the 2.6 also barely fits in the rear - a 2.4 would be perfect)Soma Osprey Bars1x7 with the 42t Jim Cassette & a clutch derailer (necessary if things get chunky with that long chain...)kickstand & rack stay on :)On Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 8:34:54 PM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:I could not agree more. I have been enjoying mixed surface rides more often than not since getting the Clem 14 months ago. It’s always been fun off road but the 55mm Simworks Homage tires have taken it up a notch. Sent from my iPhoneOn Feb 28, 2023, at 4:45 PM, DavidP wrote:I find mixed surface rides to be so satisfying that almost all of my bikes end up being setup for them to one degree or another. The majority of Riv models are capable of them too. I built my Platypus with these types of rides in mind - with 55mm front and 50mm rear tires and wide Tosco bars. Looking forward to seeing more photos of Clems on dirt in this thread.-DaveOn Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 4:33:28 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:It's by no means a Clem, nor is it even a Rivendell, tho' a Rivendell custom was its model, but this does very well on firm crusher fine acequia Conservancy District roads and on impromptu unmaintained dirt shortcuts between paved sections. Rene Herse Extralight Naches Pass 559X42 cm at ~35/30 or 35/40 depending on load.On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 12:32 PM Doug H. wrote:I rode my Clem for a mile or so on single-track this weekend and I have no complaints. Even with my narrow tires (Grand Bois Hetre 42 mm) I had good results. If I were to intend on a longer ride I would install wider tires and lower the pressure but I was doing mostly a road ride and the single-track was an unplanned excursion. It is nice to be on a bike that can handle most surfaces. The same ride included asphalt, gravel and dirt! Anyone else do off-road riding on a Clem?Doug

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-- ---Patrick MooreAlburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[RBW] Re: For Sale: Bridgestone MB-2 Wigsplitter

2023-03-01 Thread Eric Marth

More pictures 
here: https://theradavist.com/erics-1985-bridgestone-mb-2-review

Thanks again!

On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 4:29:15 PM UTC-5 Eric Marth wrote:

> Bridgestone MB-2 Wigsplitter
>
> 1985, 21" frame
>
> $2,850
>
>
> [image: MB-2-230115-L-00-Complete-scaled.jpg]
>
>
> Hi all — I recently finished up this build and I have to be honest with 
> myself that it's just too small for me. Which is a crying shame because it 
> is quite a sick build. 
>
>
> As seen on the Radavist, build video over on YouTube. More pictures and 
> intel available. Careful selection of vintage parts, custom patinated 
> frame, weathered brass bits and de-anodized and polished parts as well. 
>
>
> Standover is 80cm or roughly 31-1/2". My saddle height at 76cm leaves me 
> with just enough seatpost bearing to be safe and bars maxed out on a Tallux 
> are still 1"+ below the saddle. Seems a 68cm — 72cm saddle height would be 
> the ticket. 
>
>
> For sale as built. Might have to swap out the FD because it was my mother 
> in law's and I want to keep it. Replacement will be Suntour. 
>
>
> Local sale preferred, I'm in Virginia about an hour north of Crust. 
>
>
> Please email me with inquiries off-list.
>
>
> Frame mods: 
>
> • Rear spacing adjusted to 135mm
>
> • Original top tube cable guides removed, new installed
>
> • Original bottom bracket cable guides removed, new Shimano installed
>
> • Hourglass rack mounts installed at fork 3mm below canti bosses
>
> • Hourglass rack mounts installed on seat stays 3mm below canti bosses
>
> • Additional bottle boss installed on down tube for triple-mount
>
> • Additional bottle bosses added on underside of downtube (can carry three 
> bottles)
>
> • Pump peg added to seat tube 
>
> • Seatpost reamed
>
>
> Frame finish: 
>
> • Stripped to raw steel 
>
> • Cleaned, degreased
>
> • Patinated with two coats of patina acid, cold and hot
>
> • Frame clear-coated with satin lacquer
>
> • Frame coated with Renaissance Wax
>
> • Interior of frame treated with Frame Saver
>
>
> Build list
>
> • Velocity Atlas 26" 32/32 wheelset
>
> • Rene Herse Humptulips Ridge 26" x 2.3", extra light
>
> • Rene Herse Rat Trap Pass 26" x 2.3", extra light
>
> • Shimano XTR M900 rear hub
>
> • Kasai 32H front hub
>
> • Schmidt Edelux II polished headlight
>
> • Busch + Müller light mount
>
> • Crust x Nitto Shaka handlebars, 54cm
>
> • Newbaum's cotton bar tape, white with amber shellac
>
> • Suntour Bar-Con shifters
>
> • Suntour Superbe levers
>
> • Paul Neo Retro cantilever brakes, front
>
> • Paul Touring cantilever brakes, rear
>
> • Hunter Nugz barrel adjusters
>
> • Dia Compe yoke hangers
>
> • Fairweather x Nitto stem-mounted cable hanger
>
> • Nitto Technomic 6cm stem, 26.0 clamp 
>
> • WTB New Paradigm Grease Guard headset 
>
> • TA Specialities Cyclotourist crankset, 48/42/28, 170mm 
>
> • Shimano 115mm square taper bottom bracket 
>
> • Shimano 9 speed 12-36 cassette
>
> • MKS XC-III pedals
>
> • Suntour AR front derailer
>
> • Shimano XTR MD-952 rear derailer 
>
> • Suntour XC Pro seat post 
>
> • Suntour seat post clamp
>
> • Brooks Conquest saddle
>
> • Wheels Mfg. brass housing ferrules
>
> • Sim Works x Nissen brass cable ferrules
>
> • Sim Works x Nissen brake and shift housing 
>
> • Sim Works x Hoshi brass spoke nipples 
>
> • M5 brass socket head screws
>
> • Shovel Research M5 brass slotted screws
>
> • Blue Lug KOMA rear light, silver
>
> • Zefal HPX frame pump, vintage, raw aluminum 
>
> • I'm sure I'm forgetting something else
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Hand-Wringing: Kickstand Edition

2023-03-01 Thread George Schick

Unfortunately, this is not uncommon.  What they're often doing is using 
something they already have in stock, telling the customer that they've 
selected a "better" product.  Also, if they've stocked those via a one-time 
mass purchase from a distributor, they're likely to be making a wider 
profit margin off of it vs. something they had to special order.  Yet 
another reason to DIY if you can.

On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 2:09:00 PM UTC-6 Garth wrote:

>
> I missed the part of the employee taking the liberty to order something 
> other than what was agreed upon. While it's not uncommon, it is wonky and 
> it's up to the customer to take it up with either the employee or the store 
> management. Be firm about it, kind, but firm. If the store hems and haws, 
> tell them to take it up with the employee who ordered the part, and leave 
> you out of that drama. That's not the customers responsibility, you're 
> there to buy the stuff you ask for. The employee may have thought you 
> wouldn't notice, or worse, were clueless to tell the difference. Oops, you 
> did. 
>
>
>
> *Surprise ! I bought you and even BETTER present ! *
>
> [image: cookie-monster-gets-crackers-its-like-you-dont-even-know-me.jpg]
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Hand-Wringing: Kickstand Edition

2023-03-01 Thread Kim Hetzel

Very selfish of the bike mechanic to do so over Leah wanted.

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA.

On Wed, Mar 1, 2023, 11:02 AM Joe Bernard  wrote:

>
> Yes, I'm also annoyed that the shop guy - a person she's interacted with
> several times - got the kickstand he liked and popped it on there without
> asking her. That's weird.
> On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 8:04:46 AM UTC-8 eric.j...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Sorry to hear you did not get the kickstand you asked for. Maybe you want
>> to go back to that shop and ask them to replace the current kickstand with
>> the one you originally asked for? Or maybe you've had enough of that shop
>> already.
>>
>> No one else thinks it's a bit out of line for the shop to use the
>> kickstand they wanted vs. the one Leah wanted?
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 8:26 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
>> jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> You’ll forgive me for this unusual thread, I know you will. You will be
>>> compassionate to your RivSister who is yearning for spring after a Michigan
>>> winter, and if she can’t ride the bikes she will talk about the bikes.
>>>
>>> I love my Rivendells. I used to hate changing anything about them - if I
>>> wore something out like brake pads or tires - I would sometimes weep about
>>> it in the parking lot of the bike shop. “It will never be the SAME!” I’d
>>> think. These poor coping skills came after wearing my Betty Foy tires to
>>> threads. The mechanic told me he’d have to get me something else for tires
>>> because he didn’t have that kind. Then he called me and told my I’d
>>> actually need a whole new WHEEL because my rim was cracked. He explained he
>>> would have to build one. After a week in that shop, my Betty was returned
>>> to me. I got a flat on my first ride. I went howling back to the shop - it
>>> was something about rim tape and it was an easy fix. But I had developed a
>>> distrust and a distaste for messing with essentials on my bikes.
>>>
>>> I’ve mostly gotten over this. Especially now that I know about upgrades
>>> and how happy they can make you. But some things just shouldn’t need to be
>>> upgraded. Some things are so familiar that when they go missing or get
>>> replaced it’s intolerable.
>>>
>>> Kickstands.
>>>
>>> My Greenfield kickstand on the raspberry Platy inexplicably snapped in
>>> the back of my van en route to the Philly Bike Expo. A local shop replaced
>>> that kickstand with the same model (joy and rapture!) but cut it a hair too
>>> short. Was it going to tip over? No. BUT IT WASN’T THE SAME, I wailed in my
>>> head. I didn’t like the new lean it gave the bike. I wanted things the way
>>> they used to be. I decided I would spring for yet another kickstand and
>>> hope it would be right.
>>>
>>> I took my Platy to my local shop and explained about the kickstand. I
>>> also brought them one of Rivendell’s new shiny rear racks to be fit to my
>>> bike. I may take that bike on a RivSister Tour this summer and needed a
>>> heavy-duty rack (not the saddlebag support I have presently). The mechanic
>>> thought he knew what I wanted and ordered me a new kickstand that he
>>> thought would be EVEN BETTER. He said this in email, so I did not get a
>>> vote. I picked up the bike today. The rear rack was expertly fitted. The
>>> kickstand…I know he meant well, but…
>>>
>>> But it wasn’t the SAME.
>>>
>>> It’s this foreign thing on my bike. Chunky and stout. It’s a Portland
>>> Design Works stand; this one, I think:
>>> https://ridepdw.com/products/power-stance-kickstand
>>>
>>> I haven’t gotten used to it. It’s been 4 hours. I don’t know if I can
>>> get used to it. This is my club ride bike and that kickstand is…a lot. The
>>> rack will get switched back - I just wanted the new one ready for plug and
>>> play for a summer tour. But what should I do about that kickstand?
>>>
>>> I could buy the one that is on my mermaid Platy. I think I want to be
>>> done with the kickstands that you have to cut to size. I’m liking that this
>>> one is adjustable.
>>>
>>> Is it as horrible as I think? I think it’s worse in real life than the
>>> photos show. Also, it’s dark and I had to alter these photos a lot so you
>>> could see well enough. Colors will be distorted. Anyway, I’m sending pics
>>> in the following post…
>>>
>>> Who will help their RivSister? Who can understand her peculiar brand of
>>> angst? Who has words of wisdom, or even constructive criticism? Who else is
>>> nutty about small things that barely matter? Who has been crying in bike
>>> shop parking lots and hand-wringing in the garage, staring at these
>>> foreign, new, transplanted parts?
>>>
>>> Pics forthcoming…
>>> Leah
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>

[RBW] Re: 3D printed wheel building accessories

2023-03-01 Thread DavidP

Handy tools all of them but that nipple tool is the one that speaks to me 
most. I hate it when a nipple falls into the rim - I usually have to wait 
until the wheel is nearly laced to get it back out through the valve hole.

Sometimes when the fit/reach is tight I'll thread a spare spoke onto the 
back of the nipple to do the same job but that adds a lot of time (though 
not as much as dropping the nipple into the rim).

Thanks for sharing!
-Dave

On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 12:52:58 PM UTC-5 richdpow...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> X-posted Ibob/rbw
>
>
> The ERD discussion the other day got me thinking about some extras I came 
> across that are helpful to those building wheels. I thought I’d share. 
> Also, my typing skills coupled with a mobile device seems to increase my 
> errors, sorry about that! 
>
>
> Does anyone on the list have a 3d printer?  Who doesn’t like specialty 
> tools? I had a friend with a 3D printer make a few sets of these for me. 
> They are for a wheel building class in Des Moines. The class is a 
> fundraiser for the local Bike Collective. If you need a place to help in 
> your community, I’ve found this to be vary rewarding. 
>
> The items printed were mostly free files on online. A few bucks in 
> material.  Are they perfect? No, but close. They are fun and functional. 
> Can’t beat that!
>
>
> The orange spoke nipple tool uses a filed point on an old spoke to hold 
> the nipple through friction. It’s helpful as you turn it onto a spoke while 
> building. A real time saver. 
>
>
> The blue shuffler is a neat deal that tumbles all nipples into the slots 
> head up. This makes them all ready to easily pick with the  orange tool. 
>
>
> The yellow spoke wrench holder has a few mounting holes at the bottom to 
> fasten somewhere. 
>
>
> If you look around on https://www.thingiverse.com/ 
>
> Search for: spoke nipple shuffler, (a few versions are out there) Park 
> tool spoke wrench holder, Bicycle spoke nipple insertion tool. 
>
>
> The blue spoke wrench holder was purchased for $10 on Etsy. 3 small 
> magnets both hold it to the park stand (or other metal things) and hold the 
> wrenches in. I like how it is angled a bit, makes it nice and tidy. 
>
>
> Feel free to direct message me with any questions. I’m a slower responder 
> on-list. 
>
>
> -Rich in DSM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Hand-Wringing: Kickstand Edition

2023-03-01 Thread Joe Bernard


Yes, I'm also annoyed that the shop guy - a person she's interacted with 
several times - got the kickstand he liked and popped it on there without 
asking her. That's weird. 
On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 8:04:46 AM UTC-8 eric.j...@gmail.com wrote:

> Sorry to hear you did not get the kickstand you asked for. Maybe you want 
> to go back to that shop and ask them to replace the current kickstand with 
> the one you originally asked for? Or maybe you've had enough of that shop 
> already.
>
> No one else thinks it's a bit out of line for the shop to use the 
> kickstand they wanted vs. the one Leah wanted?
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 8:26 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
> jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You’ll forgive me for this unusual thread, I know you will. You will be 
>> compassionate to your RivSister who is yearning for spring after a Michigan 
>> winter, and if she can’t ride the bikes she will talk about the bikes. 
>>
>> I love my Rivendells. I used to hate changing anything about them - if I 
>> wore something out like brake pads or tires - I would sometimes weep about 
>> it in the parking lot of the bike shop. “It will never be the SAME!” I’d 
>> think. These poor coping skills came after wearing my Betty Foy tires to 
>> threads. The mechanic told me he’d have to get me something else for tires 
>> because he didn’t have that kind. Then he called me and told my I’d 
>> actually need a whole new WHEEL because my rim was cracked. He explained he 
>> would have to build one. After a week in that shop, my Betty was returned 
>> to me. I got a flat on my first ride. I went howling back to the shop - it 
>> was something about rim tape and it was an easy fix. But I had developed a 
>> distrust and a distaste for messing with essentials on my bikes. 
>>
>> I’ve mostly gotten over this. Especially now that I know about upgrades 
>> and how happy they can make you. But some things just shouldn’t need to be 
>> upgraded. Some things are so familiar that when they go missing or get 
>> replaced it’s intolerable.
>>
>> Kickstands.
>>
>> My Greenfield kickstand on the raspberry Platy inexplicably snapped in 
>> the back of my van en route to the Philly Bike Expo. A local shop replaced 
>> that kickstand with the same model (joy and rapture!) but cut it a hair too 
>> short. Was it going to tip over? No. BUT IT WASN’T THE SAME, I wailed in my 
>> head. I didn’t like the new lean it gave the bike. I wanted things the way 
>> they used to be. I decided I would spring for yet another kickstand and 
>> hope it would be right.
>>
>> I took my Platy to my local shop and explained about the kickstand. I 
>> also brought them one of Rivendell’s new shiny rear racks to be fit to my 
>> bike. I may take that bike on a RivSister Tour this summer and needed a 
>> heavy-duty rack (not the saddlebag support I have presently). The mechanic 
>> thought he knew what I wanted and ordered me a new kickstand that he 
>> thought would be EVEN BETTER. He said this in email, so I did not get a 
>> vote. I picked up the bike today. The rear rack was expertly fitted. The 
>> kickstand…I know he meant well, but…
>>
>> But it wasn’t the SAME. 
>>
>> It’s this foreign thing on my bike. Chunky and stout. It’s a Portland 
>> Design Works stand; this one, I think: 
>> https://ridepdw.com/products/power-stance-kickstand
>>
>> I haven’t gotten used to it. It’s been 4 hours. I don’t know if I can get 
>> used to it. This is my club ride bike and that kickstand is…a lot. The rack 
>> will get switched back - I just wanted the new one ready for plug and play 
>> for a summer tour. But what should I do about that kickstand? 
>>
>> I could buy the one that is on my mermaid Platy. I think I want to be 
>> done with the kickstands that you have to cut to size. I’m liking that this 
>> one is adjustable. 
>>
>> Is it as horrible as I think? I think it’s worse in real life than the 
>> photos show. Also, it’s dark and I had to alter these photos a lot so you 
>> could see well enough. Colors will be distorted. Anyway, I’m sending pics 
>> in the following post…
>>
>> Who will help their RivSister? Who can understand her peculiar brand of 
>> angst? Who has words of wisdom, or even constructive criticism? Who else is 
>> nutty about small things that barely matter? Who has been crying in bike 
>> shop parking lots and hand-wringing in the garage, staring at these 
>> foreign, new, transplanted parts?
>>
>> Pics forthcoming…
>> Leah
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/43d2871b-a482-4ece-8a89-453f2dbd48d9n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>>

Re: [RBW] Re: 650b or 700 Bombadil frame question

2023-03-01 Thread JohnS

Another trick that I recently learned while installing the Paul mini-mottos 
and touring cantis on my Crust Lighting Bolt Cant (was going to install 
them on my QB but decided the LB-C would benefit from them more) is to 
loosen the return springs so that I didn't have to work against them. I did 
have the cable adjuster turned out most of the way so that I could turn it 
in once I all the adjustments are done. I was able to do the same thing 
with the Tektro 720's on my QB since the spring can be unhooked from the 
brake arm easily. I don't recall if other canti brakes have this option or 
not.

JohnS

On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 9:29:59 AM UTC-5 lconley wrote:

> Uh-oh. I am going to have to remove the tires when I reassemble the 
> Bombadil to adjust the brakes now!
>
> Laing
>
> On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 8:58:46 AM UTC-5 JohnS wrote:
>
>> I agree with Laing, I spend way too much time setting up canti brakes. I 
>> usually remove the tires and even the fenders when installing them. This 
>> allows me to see how well aligned the brake pad is to the rim as Laing has 
>> noted. I prefer to use brake pad holders for this reason, set them up once 
>> and when the pads wear out, slide out the old pads and slide in the new. No 
>> adjustments necessary.
>>
>> JohnS
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 8:46:30 AM UTC-5 lconley wrote:
>>
>>> That is a pretty good video - he uses the tool to show the 90 degree 
>>> angle. He points out that lowering the straddle (making the straddle cable 
>>> flatter) results in better braking. He even talks about getting the pads as 
>>> close to the arm as possible with the Neo-Retro (wide profile) style 
>>> cantilevers. To steal a phrase from someone - Approve!
>>>
>>> Laing
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 8:19:44 AM UTC-5 maxcr wrote:
>>>
 I found this Path Less Pedaled video useful when I installed the Paul 
 Touring Cantis on my Atlantis: 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDdWIq4cLLo

 Thanks everyone for your responses and particularly to  Laing for that 
 masterclass on how to set up cantis!

 Max who's still rethinking handlebar and drivetrain choices for the 
 upcoming Bombadil

 On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 8:13:39 AM UTC-5 lconley wrote:

> Remember that flat at the straddle and 90 deg at the arms fight each 
> other - it is always a compromise.
>
> Laing
>
> On Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 8:41:13 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Laing: Thanks for this detailed and informing overview; I have read 
>> it through and will read it again slowly, but I think I get it: 90* to 
>> brake arm pivots + as flat as possible at straddle, as little toe-in as 
>> you 
>> can get by with to prevent squeal, and make sure that the pads meet the 
>> rim 
>> brake tracks squarely. I've already done the last 2, must go back and 
>> look 
>> at the first 2. The single rear rack strut to seatstay bridge may limit 
>> my 
>> options in the rear. My pads are old Kool Stop salmons, the short, 
>> blocky 
>> sort. I did make various shim tools for toe in, must seek those out 
>> again.
>>
>> Thanks again!
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 3:52 PM lconley  wrote:
>>
>>> Geometry is all important with cantilevers. I will use Paul models 
>>> for reference. Note that at a certain level, V-brakes are just 
>>> optimized 
>>> cantilevers, so much so that they have too much braking force that must 
>>> be 
>>> reduced at the levers. If maximizing braking force is the be-all, end 
>>> all 
>>> of braking, then why use levers that reduce the braking force? But 
>>> there is 
>>> something to be said for V-brakes having less tension (and therefore 
>>> stretch) on the brake cable.
>>>
>>> 1. You want the straddle cable operating at, or as close as possible 
>>> to a 90 degree angle to a line drawn from the brake arm pivot axis (the 
>>> post brazed/welded to the frame) to the straddle cable connection to 
>>> the 
>>> arm. This is much easier on a Paul Touring than a Paul Neo-Retro. 
>>> Motolites 
>>> are basically taking the progression to it's conclusion (Neo-Retro -> 
>>> Touring -> Motolite). Note that when working with Neo-Retros, this 
>>> generally means rotating the arms as far towards the rim as possible, 
>>> using 
>>> the fewest, narrowest spacers between the pad and arm as possible (and 
>>> that 
>>> is allowed by your tires). This is where some "experts" get it all 
>>> wrong, 
>>> they seem to think that the rotation of the arm changes the direct of 
>>> travel of the pad at the rim - i.e. the arm carrying the pad should be 
>>> straight up, which is untrue. The direction of travel of the pad at the 
>>> rim 
>>> is fixed by where the relative location of the pivot is to the rim-pad 
>>>

Re: [RBW] Re: Hand-Wringing: Kickstand Edition

2023-03-01 Thread George Schick

Yeah, what Brain sez.  There are two ways to look at this situation, keep 
the original as "original" as possible, perhaps for sentimental reasons, or 
upgrade as parts fail or wear out.  A look of folks get hooked on the label 
"OEM quality" or "contractor grade" when it comes to replacing parts on 
automobiles or fixtures in houses.  But keep in mind that an auto 
manufacturer wants to keep the price on his cars as low as possible in 
order to edge out competitors - so the OEM parts he gets to assemble his 
cars are usually not the best quality.  Likewise, a contractor building 
houses wants to keep the total cost down so his "contractor grade" 
translates to "cheapest possible."

This is not to imply that Riv is installing junky components on its bikes, 
but they ARE caught in the trap of having to try to keep the total cost of 
their product at least somewhat within a range that will attract those who 
don't seem to think any bike should cost over $1,000 (some don't think it 
should cost more than $100).  When I bought my Riv back in '05 (a Ram) I 
bought just the frame and fork with BB and headset and then picked and 
chose the components from various sources - some from Riv, some not. If I 
had do it all over again I wouldn't even have had the frame and fork 
equipped with the BB and headset.  'Course, this implies that one has to 
have all the right tools and skills to install everything else on the bike, 
but that comes along with over 50 years in the saddle - it's an acquired 
skill set.

On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 9:38:08 AM UTC-6 bmfo...@gmail.com wrote:

> There's nothing wrong with not liking a particular part for aesthetic or 
> any other reason. Leah if you don't dig the look of the new kickstand, 
> ditch it and get what you want. I agree that kickstand is ugly. I think the 
> classic greenfield is the best looking kickstand out there. Probably 
> because it is the most minimal. I'll echo others statements about the 
> double leg pletcher being better for loaded bikes, though. 
>
> I tend to have the opposite problem as Leah. I get the itch to change 
> things on a bike just for the sake of changing them and trying something 
> new. Handlebars and tires most notably fall into this category for me.
>
> One thing I especially LOVE changing is wear items like brake pads, tires 
> (assuming i wear them out vs. just changing them), chains, or any kind of 
> bearing. Wearing things out on a bike (as long as it isn't premature) is 
> extremely satisfying to me and makes me feel justified in the time and 
> money invested in changing the part out.
>
> Brian
>
> On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 9:24:40 AM UTC-6 Jay Lonner wrote:
>
>> [image: e98eff0855c377cdbc7ef4d2dd08ba1c.jpeg]
>>
>> Click-Stand Home Page 
>> click-stand.com 
>> 
>>
>> The Click-Stand has come up before in prior kickstand threads, and in my 
>> judgement is both functionally and aesthetically superior to the 
>> traditional Greenfield/Pletscher design. 
>>
>> Jay Lonner
>> Bellingham, WA
>>
>> Sent from my Atari 400
>>
>> On Mar 1, 2023, at 6:40 AM, Doug H.  wrote:
>>
>> The kickstand on my Clem works. But, I have never liked the look of it 
>> (photo below). I bought it from Bike24 in Germany when ordering some dynamo 
>> lights as an add on to the order. I can commiserate Leah with not wanting 
>> to mess with things that work. Your example of brake pads is a good one. I 
>> get my brakes set up just right and they are working well, then I need new 
>> pads. In fact, I need new pads now! I do enjoy tinkering with bikes but 
>> always think I'll never get it set up as good as it was. Then, I do and the 
>> worry was for naught. I plan to keep using the current kickstand because it 
>> just works. 
>> Doug
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 9:26:39 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>> Ding! wrote:
>>
>>> You’ll forgive me for this unusual thread, I know you will. You will be 
>>> compassionate to your RivSister who is yearning for spring after a Michigan 
>>> winter, and if she can’t ride the bikes she will talk about the bikes. 
>>>
>>> I love my Rivendells. I used to hate changing anything about them - if I 
>>> wore something out like brake pads or tires - I would sometimes weep about 
>>> it in the parking lot of the bike shop. “It will never be the SAME!” I’d 
>>> think. These poor coping skills came after wearing my Betty Foy tires to 
>>> threads. The mechanic told me he’d have to get me something else for tires 
>>> because he didn’t have that kind. Then he called me and told my I’d 
>>> actually need a whole new WHEEL because my rim was cracked. He explained he 
>>> would have to build one. After a week in that shop, my Betty was returned 
>>> to me. I got a flat on my first ride. I went howling back to the shop - it 
>>> was something about rim tape and it was an easy fix. But I had developed a 
>>> distrust and a

[RBW] Re: Fitting the Hunqapillar for touring

2023-03-01 Thread Johnny Burrell

I was hoping for some advice, but I got that and a bunch of awesome photos. 
Just wow ya'll. And so many hunqapillars crawling around :) I'm hearing a 
lighter rear rack and a larger trunk should do me nicely until i get more 
serious. I'll see what I can find in terms of a sackville or similar. John, 
comparing the two photos of your gorgeous blue hunq, it looks like you 
changed the strut position of the rear rack from the lower mount to a 
mid-mount. Any reason for that? 

John H your dirty bike looks rad. 

Edit, sorry for responding with the entire thread. 


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[RBW] Re: Fitting the Hunqapillar for touring

2023-03-01 Thread Johnny Burrell

I was hoping for some advice, but I got that and a bunch of awesome photos. 
Just wow ya'll. And so many hunqapillars crawling around :) I'm hearing a 
lighter rear rack and a larger trunk should do me nicely until i get more 
serious. I'll see what I can find in terms of a sackville or similar. John, 
comparing the two photos of your gorgeous blue hunq, it looks like you 
changed the strut position of the rear rack from the lower mount to a 
mid-mount. Any reason for that? 

On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 7:09:41 AM UTC-8 John M wrote:

> Here's my erstwhile Hunq in desert Southwest (which is to say warm nights, 
> sunny days) touring mode.  Carradice Nelson Longflap on the back supported 
> by a minimal rear rack for the heavy items, then a Wald basket with a cargo 
> net up front for lightweight stuff like down jacket, sleeping bag and pad.  
> Food, tools, and phone in the small Jandd frame bag.  Its a minimalist 
> set-up for sure, but the great advantage of bike touring is that you are 
> rarely more than a day or two away from a food resupply.  
>
>
> [image: IMG_20200530_063716010 (1).jpg]
>
> [image: IMG_20200907_085731040.jpg]
> [image: IMG_20201002_140446896.jpg]
> On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 7:41:00 AM UTC-7 Marc Irwin wrote:
>
>> Looks like you are off to a good start.  I've been taking my HUNQ on week 
>> long trips for 10 years now and have reduced the baggage and weight by 
>> minimizing the racks.  I was using the Pletscher Inova rack on the back and 
>> Surly big rack in front to carry Orlieb front rollers and a x-large Riv 
>> Sackville saddlebag.  After years of realizing I was carrying too much, I 
>> reduced to a Pletscher Athlete in the rear with a smaller saddlebag and 
>> Blackburn low riders on the front.  I reduced by nearly 25 lbs (not that 
>> anybody is counting).  The rear bag carries about 12-15 lbs, the front bags 
>> are 6 lbs a piece.  In the front, I carry the tent and rainfly in one, the 
>> mattress, sleeping bag and pillow in the other.  Everything else goes in 
>> the rear.  The mousetrap on the Pletscher rack acts as stabilizer and place 
>> to secure food and stuff bought along the way each day.   I have an 
>> e-book 
>> 
>>  
>> about my touring available cheap on Amazon if you care for more detail.  
>> The before and after pics of the loading are below.  [image: 
>> DSCF9283.JPG][image: loaded.jpg]
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 7:44:35 PM UTC-5 johnny@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey all, 
>>> My father in-law is taking me with him on a mini bike tour down the 
>>> Oregon coast this summer. It'll be between 10-14 days as we make our way 
>>> down the coast from Astoria to someplace farther south :)  I'd like to 
>>> upgrade some of the touring stuff because what I have is either super nice, 
>>> or very basic and cheap. I did a dirt tour summer before last, a two night 
>>> three day ride around a bunch of lakes near Mt Hood. It was rad. My bike is 
>>> set up with some crummy $10 Craigslist panniers on a Nitto campee front 
>>> rack with a Wald 135 basket. On the back I have a super cheap aluminum rack 
>>> I strapped my sleeping bag to. Lastly, I have a bedrockbags frame bag, 
>>> which is gorgeous. 
>>>
>>> So... it's upgrade time. What I'm thinking is upgrading the rear rack 
>>> and bag and sticking with the front cheap panniers. Thoughts on that 
>>> approach? Or should I just get a nice front pannier set and call it a day? 
>>> The bike felt overly front loaded the first go round so I was thinking of 
>>> putting more weight in the back. 
>>>
>>> Here are the options I've been toying with in my head:
>>> 1) a rear rack and something like a Swift Zeitgeist "trunk" bag
>>>
>>>- Pros: Looks cool, probably more usable for the times i'm not 
>>>touring, slightly less expensive option overall
>>>- Cons: 12L capacity may or may not be enough?
>>>
>>> 2) a bigger rack and rear panniers 
>>>
>>>- Pros: 20L+ capacity, likely a more robust setup, with the front 
>>>i'd have tons of space
>>>- Cons: more expensive and likely I won't keep a rear rack on the 
>>>bike all the time because i have a front rack and basket so it may not 
>>> be 
>>>as useful overall
>>>
>>> I have not done any real touring before so seeking the wisdom and 
>>> expertise of my Riv comrades. Thoughts and suggestions? Here's a pic from 
>>> the dirt tour around Hood because all threads without pictures are flawed 
>>> :) 
>>>
>>> Thank you and here's to summer plans with long slow rides for days and 
>>> days.
>>> [image: Hunqa-hunqa burnin love.jpg]
>>>  
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Hand-Wringing: Kickstand Edition

2023-03-01 Thread Eric White

Sorry to hear you did not get the kickstand you asked for. Maybe you want
to go back to that shop and ask them to replace the current kickstand with
the one you originally asked for? Or maybe you've had enough of that shop
already.

No one else thinks it's a bit out of line for the shop to use the kickstand
they wanted vs. the one Leah wanted?


On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 8:26 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
jonasandle...@gmail.com> wrote:

> You’ll forgive me for this unusual thread, I know you will. You will be
> compassionate to your RivSister who is yearning for spring after a Michigan
> winter, and if she can’t ride the bikes she will talk about the bikes.
>
> I love my Rivendells. I used to hate changing anything about them - if I
> wore something out like brake pads or tires - I would sometimes weep about
> it in the parking lot of the bike shop. “It will never be the SAME!” I’d
> think. These poor coping skills came after wearing my Betty Foy tires to
> threads. The mechanic told me he’d have to get me something else for tires
> because he didn’t have that kind. Then he called me and told my I’d
> actually need a whole new WHEEL because my rim was cracked. He explained he
> would have to build one. After a week in that shop, my Betty was returned
> to me. I got a flat on my first ride. I went howling back to the shop - it
> was something about rim tape and it was an easy fix. But I had developed a
> distrust and a distaste for messing with essentials on my bikes.
>
> I’ve mostly gotten over this. Especially now that I know about upgrades
> and how happy they can make you. But some things just shouldn’t need to be
> upgraded. Some things are so familiar that when they go missing or get
> replaced it’s intolerable.
>
> Kickstands.
>
> My Greenfield kickstand on the raspberry Platy inexplicably snapped in the
> back of my van en route to the Philly Bike Expo. A local shop replaced that
> kickstand with the same model (joy and rapture!) but cut it a hair too
> short. Was it going to tip over? No. BUT IT WASN’T THE SAME, I wailed in my
> head. I didn’t like the new lean it gave the bike. I wanted things the way
> they used to be. I decided I would spring for yet another kickstand and
> hope it would be right.
>
> I took my Platy to my local shop and explained about the kickstand. I also
> brought them one of Rivendell’s new shiny rear racks to be fit to my bike.
> I may take that bike on a RivSister Tour this summer and needed a
> heavy-duty rack (not the saddlebag support I have presently). The mechanic
> thought he knew what I wanted and ordered me a new kickstand that he
> thought would be EVEN BETTER. He said this in email, so I did not get a
> vote. I picked up the bike today. The rear rack was expertly fitted. The
> kickstand…I know he meant well, but…
>
> But it wasn’t the SAME.
>
> It’s this foreign thing on my bike. Chunky and stout. It’s a Portland
> Design Works stand; this one, I think:
> https://ridepdw.com/products/power-stance-kickstand
>
> I haven’t gotten used to it. It’s been 4 hours. I don’t know if I can get
> used to it. This is my club ride bike and that kickstand is…a lot. The rack
> will get switched back - I just wanted the new one ready for plug and play
> for a summer tour. But what should I do about that kickstand?
>
> I could buy the one that is on my mermaid Platy. I think I want to be done
> with the kickstands that you have to cut to size. I’m liking that this one
> is adjustable.
>
> Is it as horrible as I think? I think it’s worse in real life than the
> photos show. Also, it’s dark and I had to alter these photos a lot so you
> could see well enough. Colors will be distorted. Anyway, I’m sending pics
> in the following post…
>
> Who will help their RivSister? Who can understand her peculiar brand of
> angst? Who has words of wisdom, or even constructive criticism? Who else is
> nutty about small things that barely matter? Who has been crying in bike
> shop parking lots and hand-wringing in the garage, staring at these
> foreign, new, transplanted parts?
>
> Pics forthcoming…
> Leah
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hand-Wringing: Kickstand Edition

2023-03-01 Thread Brian Forsee

There's nothing wrong with not liking a particular part for aesthetic or 
any other reason. Leah if you don't dig the look of the new kickstand, 
ditch it and get what you want. I agree that kickstand is ugly. I think the 
classic greenfield is the best looking kickstand out there. Probably 
because it is the most minimal. I'll echo others statements about the 
double leg pletcher being better for loaded bikes, though. 

I tend to have the opposite problem as Leah. I get the itch to change 
things on a bike just for the sake of changing them and trying something 
new. Handlebars and tires most notably fall into this category for me.

One thing I especially LOVE changing is wear items like brake pads, tires 
(assuming i wear them out vs. just changing them), chains, or any kind of 
bearing. Wearing things out on a bike (as long as it isn't premature) is 
extremely satisfying to me and makes me feel justified in the time and 
money invested in changing the part out.

Brian

On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 9:24:40 AM UTC-6 Jay Lonner wrote:

> [image: e98eff0855c377cdbc7ef4d2dd08ba1c.jpeg]
>
> Click-Stand Home Page 
> click-stand.com 
> 
>
> The Click-Stand has come up before in prior kickstand threads, and in my 
> judgement is both functionally and aesthetically superior to the 
> traditional Greenfield/Pletscher design. 
>
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA
>
> Sent from my Atari 400
>
> On Mar 1, 2023, at 6:40 AM, Doug H.  wrote:
>
> The kickstand on my Clem works. But, I have never liked the look of it 
> (photo below). I bought it from Bike24 in Germany when ordering some dynamo 
> lights as an add on to the order. I can commiserate Leah with not wanting 
> to mess with things that work. Your example of brake pads is a good one. I 
> get my brakes set up just right and they are working well, then I need new 
> pads. In fact, I need new pads now! I do enjoy tinkering with bikes but 
> always think I'll never get it set up as good as it was. Then, I do and the 
> worry was for naught. I plan to keep using the current kickstand because it 
> just works. 
> Doug
>
> 
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 9:26:39 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> You’ll forgive me for this unusual thread, I know you will. You will be 
>> compassionate to your RivSister who is yearning for spring after a Michigan 
>> winter, and if she can’t ride the bikes she will talk about the bikes. 
>>
>> I love my Rivendells. I used to hate changing anything about them - if I 
>> wore something out like brake pads or tires - I would sometimes weep about 
>> it in the parking lot of the bike shop. “It will never be the SAME!” I’d 
>> think. These poor coping skills came after wearing my Betty Foy tires to 
>> threads. The mechanic told me he’d have to get me something else for tires 
>> because he didn’t have that kind. Then he called me and told my I’d 
>> actually need a whole new WHEEL because my rim was cracked. He explained he 
>> would have to build one. After a week in that shop, my Betty was returned 
>> to me. I got a flat on my first ride. I went howling back to the shop - it 
>> was something about rim tape and it was an easy fix. But I had developed a 
>> distrust and a distaste for messing with essentials on my bikes. 
>>
>> I’ve mostly gotten over this. Especially now that I know about upgrades 
>> and how happy they can make you. But some things just shouldn’t need to be 
>> upgraded. Some things are so familiar that when they go missing or get 
>> replaced it’s intolerable.
>>
>> Kickstands.
>>
>> My Greenfield kickstand on the raspberry Platy inexplicably snapped in 
>> the back of my van en route to the Philly Bike Expo. A local shop replaced 
>> that kickstand with the same model (joy and rapture!) but cut it a hair too 
>> short. Was it going to tip over? No. BUT IT WASN’T THE SAME, I wailed in my 
>> head. I didn’t like the new lean it gave the bike. I wanted things the way 
>> they used to be. I decided I would spring for yet another kickstand and 
>> hope it would be right.
>>
>> I took my Platy to my local shop and explained about the kickstand. I 
>> also brought them one of Rivendell’s new shiny rear racks to be fit to my 
>> bike. I may take that bike on a RivSister Tour this summer and needed a 
>> heavy-duty rack (not the saddlebag support I have presently). The mechanic 
>> thought he knew what I wanted and ordered me a new kickstand that he 
>> thought would be EVEN BETTER. He said this in email, so I did not get a 
>> vote. I picked up the bike today. The rear rack was expertly fitted. The 
>> kickstand…I know he meant well, but…
>>
>> But it wasn’t the SAME. 
>>
>> It’s this foreign thing on my bike. Chunky and stout. It’s a Portland 
>> Design Works stand; this one, I think: 
>> https://ridepdw.com/products/power-stance-kickstand
>>
>> I haven’t gotten used to it. It’s been 4 hours. I don’t know if I can

Re: [RBW] Re: Hand-Wringing: Kickstand Edition

2023-03-01 Thread Jay Lonner

Click-Stand Home Pageclick-stand.comThe Click-Stand has come up before in prior kickstand threads, and in my judgement is both functionally and aesthetically superior to the traditional Greenfield/Pletscher design. Jay LonnerBellingham, WASent from my Atari 400On Mar 1, 2023, at 6:40 AM, Doug H. wrote:The kickstand on my Clem works. But, I have never liked the look of it (photo below). I bought it from Bike24 in Germany when ordering some dynamo lights as an add on to the order. I can commiserate Leah with not wanting to mess with things that work. Your example of brake pads is a good one. I get my brakes set up just right and they are working well, then I need new pads. In fact, I need new pads now! I do enjoy tinkering with bikes but always think I'll never get it set up as good as it was. Then, I do and the worry was for naught. I plan to keep using the current kickstand because it just works. DougOn Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 9:26:39 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:You’ll forgive me for this unusual thread, I know you will. You will be compassionate to your RivSister who is yearning for spring after a Michigan winter, and if she can’t ride the bikes she will talk about the bikes. I love my Rivendells. I used to hate changing anything about them - if I wore something out like brake pads or tires - I would sometimes weep about it in the parking lot of the bike shop. “It will never be the SAME!” I’d think. These poor coping skills came after wearing my Betty Foy tires to threads. The mechanic told me he’d have to get me something else for tires because he didn’t have that kind. Then he called me and told my I’d actually need a whole new WHEEL because my rim was cracked. He explained he would have to build one. After a week in that shop, my Betty was returned to me. I got a flat on my first ride. I went howling back to the shop - it was something about rim tape and it was an easy fix. But I had developed a distrust and a distaste for messing with essentials on my bikes. I’ve mostly gotten over this. Especially now that I know about upgrades and how happy they can make you. But some things just shouldn’t need to be upgraded. Some things are so familiar that when they go missing or get replaced it’s intolerable.Kickstands.My Greenfield kickstand on the raspberry Platy inexplicably snapped in the back of my van en route to the Philly Bike Expo. A local shop replaced that kickstand with the same model (joy and rapture!) but cut it a hair too short. Was it going to tip over? No. BUT IT WASN’T THE SAME, I wailed in my head. I didn’t like the new lean it gave the bike. I wanted things the way they used to be. I decided I would spring for yet another kickstand and hope it would be right.I took my Platy to my local shop and explained about the kickstand. I also brought them one of Rivendell’s new shiny rear racks to be fit to my bike. I may take that bike on a RivSister Tour this summer and needed a heavy-duty rack (not the saddlebag support I have presently). The mechanic thought he knew what I wanted and ordered me a new kickstand that he thought would be EVEN BETTER. He said this in email, so I did not get a vote. I picked up the bike today. The rear rack was expertly fitted. The kickstand…I know he meant well, but…But it wasn’t the SAME. It’s this foreign thing on my bike. Chunky and stout. It’s a Portland Design Works stand; this one, I think: https://ridepdw.com/products/power-stance-kickstandI haven’t gotten used to it. It’s been 4 hours. I don’t know if I can get used to it. This is my club ride bike and that kickstand is…a lot. The rack will get switched back - I just wanted the new one ready for plug and play for a summer tour. But what should I do about that kickstand? I could buy the one that is on my mermaid Platy. I think I want to be done with the kickstands that you have to cut to size. I’m liking that this one is adjustable. Is it as horrible as I think? I think it’s worse in real life than the photos show. Also, it’s dark and I had to alter these photos a lot so you could see well enough. Colors will be distorted. Anyway, I’m sending pics in the following post…Who will help their RivSister? Who can understand her peculiar brand of angst? Who has words of wisdom, or even constructive criticism? Who else is nutty about small things that barely matter? Who has been crying in bike shop parking lots and hand-wringing in the garage, staring at these foreign, new, transplanted parts?Pics forthcoming…Leah

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Re: [RBW] Re: Pedal Question

2023-03-01 Thread Kim Hetzel

Luke,

I hope the Monarch pedals and the extension wings work out for you with 
your large feet. My Gamma/Monarch silver pedals; bought mine online from 
Modern Bike, with the pedal spikes from Rivendell have been working out 
very well for me on my Clem. They feel very solid and firm under my shoes; 
10.5 with a wider surface area. Happy !

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA.


On Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 10:54:16 AM UTC-8 Luke Hendrickson wrote:

> Jason – I’m switching to the Monarch with the added platform this week. 
> I’ve been running Suntour XCii pedals while wearing support free Vans 
> tennis shoes and my biggest gripe has been my feet kinda hanging off. I 
> have not had any discomfort, even with 80 mile rides. I believe my issues 
> mostly stem from having large feet (15.5) and always wanting for more of a 
> platform. 
>
> On Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 10:31:24 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I've found that the stiffer the soles of the shoes, the better pedaling 
>> feels and if the shoe is too flexy you'll get hotspots or foot pain. So I 
>> don't think switching pedals will help but switching shoes might.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 9:55 AM Jason Fuller  wrote:
>>
>>> My instinct is that has a lot more to do with the shoes, ie not well 
>>> supported arches maybe?  I found that long pedals like the MKS Monarch or 
>>> the Bubbly were a gamechanger for foot comfort vs. shorter flat pedals, but 
>>> probably because I am always riding in shoes that are objectively too soft 
>>> for long distance riding. The Bubbly isn't the grippiest pedal, because it 
>>> has no pins, but it's very grippy for a non-pinned and is easily the most 
>>> comfortable pedal I've ridden  
>>>
>>> On Sunday, 26 February 2023 at 22:36:55 UTC-8 swar...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Since it seems like people here are pretty experienced with flat pedals 
 I'll ask a question.
 I ride flats all the time, but I find that on especially long rides 
 (100+ mi) or if I'm putting out too much power (like straining up a hill) 
 I 
 start to get foot pain.
 Does anyone have good recommendations for flat pedals that are better 
 on the feet (I'm a US 10.5 shoe size) - or advice for avoiding foot 
 cramping or pain?

 On Sun, Feb 19, 2023 at 10:05 PM Luke Hendrickson <
 phendr...@paulpath.net> wrote:

> Platforms > clipless IMO. I’ve ridden both and like less hassle and 
> fewer impediments to hopping on a bike. Should you not wish to listen to 
> a 
> stranger on the Internet and wish to go full steam ahead, I suggest SPDs 
> especially since, were one to break out on the road, replacement cleats 
> or 
> screws are readily available at most LBSs. Many other clipless pedal 
> options are not. 
>
> On Sunday, February 19, 2023 at 11:46:09 AM UTC-8 Josiah Anderson 
> wrote:
>
>> I agree with Ted, clipless pedals are not useful for most of the 
>> riding I do. That riding consists of commuting, trail riding, long and 
>> fast-ish road rides, and both paved and off-road touring. The only time 
>> I 
>> still use clipless pedals is for racing (which I do just a little of); 
>> platforms are much better the rest of the time. Maybe I don't care about 
>> foot attachment as much as some people, considering that I'm also a 
>> telemark skier, but I think having your foot solidly attached is 
>> overrated. 
>> I think a lot of the time people do it because they feel like they have 
>> to 
>> or it's what everyone else is doing, even when there's not a good reason 
>> to- that was me for years before I realized how good flat pedals are. 
>> Getting a nice pair of pedals helped too- I got a good deal on some thin 
>> Crank Brothers platforms with good spikes and nice bearings and they 
>> made 
>> me like flat pedals a lot more.
>>
>> That being said, if you really want to try clipless pedals, I 
>> recommend Time ATACs. They're the only clipless pedals I've used for the 
>> last few years after moving away from SPDs and (eewww) Look road pedals, 
>> and I like them for the float and the reasonably supportive pedal body 
>> as 
>> well as for their performance in muddy conditions (I do race some 
>> cyclocross). SPDs work fine too though, and maybe cheaper and easier to 
>> find.
>>
>> Josiah Anderson
>> Missoula, MT
>>
>> Le dim. 19 févr. 2023 à 07:22, Ted Durant  a 
>> écrit :
>>
>>> On Saturday, February 18, 2023 at 9:17:48 AM UTC-5 Dick Pahle wrote:
>>> trust  its ok to ask for product recomendation here. been riding 
>>> with toe clips forever and ready to switch to clipless. anyone here 
>>> have 
>>> thoughts about a good pedal for a beginner. something easy to get in 
>>> and 
>>> out of. i get indegestion looking at all the different 
>>> kinds/styles/types. 
>>>
>>> Okay,

[RBW] Re: FS Enthusiast bundle, Paul Canti's, Paul Skewer, Just Ride

2023-03-01 Thread Alex Wirth

These are gone

On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 12:03:11 PM UTC-5 Alex Wirth wrote:

> FS enthusiast bundle: canti levers, skewer, just ride, one price [image: 
> 2️⃣][image: 4️⃣][image: 0️⃣] [image: ] ‘d conus
>
> (All brand new)
>
> PayPal f, Venmo, cashapp, add 3% for goods and services transaction.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Alex Wirth
> Rochester, NY
>
> [image: bundle.jpg]
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: 650b or 700 Bombadil frame question

Uh-oh. I am going to have to remove the tires when I reassemble the 
Bombadil to adjust the brakes now!

Laing

On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 8:58:46 AM UTC-5 JohnS wrote:

> I agree with Laing, I spend way too much time setting up canti brakes. I 
> usually remove the tires and even the fenders when installing them. This 
> allows me to see how well aligned the brake pad is to the rim as Laing has 
> noted. I prefer to use brake pad holders for this reason, set them up once 
> and when the pads wear out, slide out the old pads and slide in the new. No 
> adjustments necessary.
>
> JohnS
>
> On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 8:46:30 AM UTC-5 lconley wrote:
>
>> That is a pretty good video - he uses the tool to show the 90 degree 
>> angle. He points out that lowering the straddle (making the straddle cable 
>> flatter) results in better braking. He even talks about getting the pads as 
>> close to the arm as possible with the Neo-Retro (wide profile) style 
>> cantilevers. To steal a phrase from someone - Approve!
>>
>> Laing
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 8:19:44 AM UTC-5 maxcr wrote:
>>
>>> I found this Path Less Pedaled video useful when I installed the Paul 
>>> Touring Cantis on my Atlantis: 
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDdWIq4cLLo
>>>
>>> Thanks everyone for your responses and particularly to  Laing for that 
>>> masterclass on how to set up cantis!
>>>
>>> Max who's still rethinking handlebar and drivetrain choices for the 
>>> upcoming Bombadil
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 8:13:39 AM UTC-5 lconley wrote:
>>>
 Remember that flat at the straddle and 90 deg at the arms fight each 
 other - it is always a compromise.

 Laing

 On Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 8:41:13 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Laing: Thanks for this detailed and informing overview; I have read it 
> through and will read it again slowly, but I think I get it: 90* to brake 
> arm pivots + as flat as possible at straddle, as little toe-in as you can 
> get by with to prevent squeal, and make sure that the pads meet the rim 
> brake tracks squarely. I've already done the last 2, must go back and 
> look 
> at the first 2. The single rear rack strut to seatstay bridge may limit 
> my 
> options in the rear. My pads are old Kool Stop salmons, the short, blocky 
> sort. I did make various shim tools for toe in, must seek those out again.
>
> Thanks again!
>
> On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 3:52 PM lconley  wrote:
>
>> Geometry is all important with cantilevers. I will use Paul models 
>> for reference. Note that at a certain level, V-brakes are just optimized 
>> cantilevers, so much so that they have too much braking force that must 
>> be 
>> reduced at the levers. If maximizing braking force is the be-all, end 
>> all 
>> of braking, then why use levers that reduce the braking force? But there 
>> is 
>> something to be said for V-brakes having less tension (and therefore 
>> stretch) on the brake cable.
>>
>> 1. You want the straddle cable operating at, or as close as possible 
>> to a 90 degree angle to a line drawn from the brake arm pivot axis (the 
>> post brazed/welded to the frame) to the straddle cable connection to the 
>> arm. This is much easier on a Paul Touring than a Paul Neo-Retro. 
>> Motolites 
>> are basically taking the progression to it's conclusion (Neo-Retro -> 
>> Touring -> Motolite). Note that when working with Neo-Retros, this 
>> generally means rotating the arms as far towards the rim as possible, 
>> using 
>> the fewest, narrowest spacers between the pad and arm as possible (and 
>> that 
>> is allowed by your tires). This is where some "experts" get it all 
>> wrong, 
>> they seem to think that the rotation of the arm changes the direct of 
>> travel of the pad at the rim - i.e. the arm carrying the pad should be 
>> straight up, which is untrue. The direction of travel of the pad at the 
>> rim 
>> is fixed by where the relative location of the pivot is to the rim-pad 
>> interface - only a welder can be used to adjust this. The pivot is below 
>> and outside the rim -> the pad will ALWAYS be traveling in a downward 
>> arc 
>> relative to the rim. Note that because V-brakes use the same pivots as 
>> cantilevers, the cheapest POS cantilevers that you can find vs. Paul 
>> Motolites - on a given bike, the pads are traveling in exactly the same 
>> arc, this is a function of the frame and wheel, not the brakes nor the 
>> brake adjustment.
>>
>> 2. Ideally, you want the straddle cable as close to straight as 
>> possible where it goes through straddle cable carrier -> the straddle 
>> cable 
>> as short as possible. This is a very unappreciated part of the equation. 
>> When you apply a perpendicular pressure at the center of a

Re: [RBW] Re: Hand-Wringing: Kickstand Edition

2023-03-01 Thread Richard Rose

I swear to God I was getting ready to type a response & read Joe’s. I was about to use very similar words which would have been needlessly duplicitous. Kick stands are UGLY. I love my dual leg Pletscher but it is UGLY. I mean, the sticks people utilize to take pics of their no kickstand bikes look at least as good as any kickstand. So it goes. I love my ugly kickstand. Embrace the ugly.Sent from my iPhoneOn Feb 28, 2023, at 11:07 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:I confess to thinking all kickstands are fairly equally horrendous and BITD when I was A Serious Cyclist I wouldn't have been caught dead with one. But now I see the light (as long as it's not on the kickstand and I don't have to look too close) and have one on my Riv and it stands the bike up and that's about all I can say for it. It's big and blocky and heavy like your PDW, but in an industrial flat black which makes it look even bigger and blockier and heavier. The one on your Mermaid? Kinda swoopy! I'm slightly amused that someone took the time to put so much styling into a kickstand but there ya go. The Ferrari of kickstands! My conclusion: The bike shop should have made sure you knew what you were paying for, you should have the kickstand you like the most. Also I don't think I've ever cried in a bike shop parking lot but if I did it was probably over some girlJoe BernardOn Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 6:26:39 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:You’ll forgive me for this unusual thread, I know you will. You will be compassionate to your RivSister who is yearning for spring after a Michigan winter, and if she can’t ride the bikes she will talk about the bikes. I love my Rivendells. I used to hate changing anything about them - if I wore something out like brake pads or tires - I would sometimes weep about it in the parking lot of the bike shop. “It will never be the SAME!” I’d think. These poor coping skills came after wearing my Betty Foy tires to threads. The mechanic told me he’d have to get me something else for tires because he didn’t have that kind. Then he called me and told my I’d actually need a whole new WHEEL because my rim was cracked. He explained he would have to build one. After a week in that shop, my Betty was returned to me. I got a flat on my first ride. I went howling back to the shop - it was something about rim tape and it was an easy fix. But I had developed a distrust and a distaste for messing with essentials on my bikes. I’ve mostly gotten over this. Especially now that I know about upgrades and how happy they can make you. But some things just shouldn’t need to be upgraded. Some things are so familiar that when they go missing or get replaced it’s intolerable.Kickstands.My Greenfield kickstand on the raspberry Platy inexplicably snapped in the back of my van en route to the Philly Bike Expo. A local shop replaced that kickstand with the same model (joy and rapture!) but cut it a hair too short. Was it going to tip over? No. BUT IT WASN’T THE SAME, I wailed in my head. I didn’t like the new lean it gave the bike. I wanted things the way they used to be. I decided I would spring for yet another kickstand and hope it would be right.I took my Platy to my local shop and explained about the kickstand. I also brought them one of Rivendell’s new shiny rear racks to be fit to my bike. I may take that bike on a RivSister Tour this summer and needed a heavy-duty rack (not the saddlebag support I have presently). The mechanic thought he knew what I wanted and ordered me a new kickstand that he thought would be EVEN BETTER. He said this in email, so I did not get a vote. I picked up the bike today. The rear rack was expertly fitted. The kickstand…I know he meant well, but…But it wasn’t the SAME. It’s this foreign thing on my bike. Chunky and stout. It’s a Portland Design Works stand; this one, I think: https://ridepdw.com/products/power-stance-kickstandI haven’t gotten used to it. It’s been 4 hours. I don’t know if I can get used to it. This is my club ride bike and that kickstand is…a lot. The rack will get switched back - I just wanted the new one ready for plug and play for a summer tour. But what should I do about that kickstand? I could buy the one that is on my mermaid Platy. I think I want to be done with the kickstands that you have to cut to size. I’m liking that this one is adjustable. Is it as horrible as I think? I think it’s worse in real life than the photos show. Also, it’s dark and I had to alter these photos a lot so you could see well enough. Colors will be distorted. Anyway, I’m sending pics in the following post…Who will help their RivSister? Who can understand her peculiar brand of angst? Who has words of wisdom, or even constructive criticism? Who else is nutty about small things that barely matter? Who has been crying in bike shop parking lots and hand-wringing in the garage, staring at these foreign, new, transplanted parts?Pics forthcoming…Leah

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[RBW] Re: Hand-Wringing: Kickstand Edition

should have said "pedal and seat curvature against things"

Laing

On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 9:07:46 AM UTC-5 lconley wrote:

> I agree - life is too short to ride a bike with an ugly kickstand! I 
> prefer the simple, classic, cut to length, Pletscher/Greenfield kickstand 
> with the small Greenfield foot - in the words of the architect Mies van der 
> Rohe: "Less is more." On bikes that carry a load, I use the double leg 
> Pletcher - single leg kickstands and a high center of gravity just don't 
> mix. 
> I rode without kickstands for decades - you kind of become an expert at 
> leaning the bike on things and using pedal against and seat curvature 
> things to prevent the bike from rolling. I went with beauty over function 
> on my custom and it has no kickstand plate or kickstand. 
> [image: kick.jpg]
>
> Laing
>
> On Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 9:26:39 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> You’ll forgive me for this unusual thread, I know you will. You will be 
>> compassionate to your RivSister who is yearning for spring after a Michigan 
>> winter, and if she can’t ride the bikes she will talk about the bikes. 
>>
>> I love my Rivendells. I used to hate changing anything about them - if I 
>> wore something out like brake pads or tires - I would sometimes weep about 
>> it in the parking lot of the bike shop. “It will never be the SAME!” I’d 
>> think. These poor coping skills came after wearing my Betty Foy tires to 
>> threads. The mechanic told me he’d have to get me something else for tires 
>> because he didn’t have that kind. Then he called me and told my I’d 
>> actually need a whole new WHEEL because my rim was cracked. He explained he 
>> would have to build one. After a week in that shop, my Betty was returned 
>> to me. I got a flat on my first ride. I went howling back to the shop - it 
>> was something about rim tape and it was an easy fix. But I had developed a 
>> distrust and a distaste for messing with essentials on my bikes. 
>>
>> I’ve mostly gotten over this. Especially now that I know about upgrades 
>> and how happy they can make you. But some things just shouldn’t need to be 
>> upgraded. Some things are so familiar that when they go missing or get 
>> replaced it’s intolerable.
>>
>> Kickstands.
>>
>> My Greenfield kickstand on the raspberry Platy inexplicably snapped in 
>> the back of my van en route to the Philly Bike Expo. A local shop replaced 
>> that kickstand with the same model (joy and rapture!) but cut it a hair too 
>> short. Was it going to tip over? No. BUT IT WASN’T THE SAME, I wailed in my 
>> head. I didn’t like the new lean it gave the bike. I wanted things the way 
>> they used to be. I decided I would spring for yet another kickstand and 
>> hope it would be right.
>>
>> I took my Platy to my local shop and explained about the kickstand. I 
>> also brought them one of Rivendell’s new shiny rear racks to be fit to my 
>> bike. I may take that bike on a RivSister Tour this summer and needed a 
>> heavy-duty rack (not the saddlebag support I have presently). The mechanic 
>> thought he knew what I wanted and ordered me a new kickstand that he 
>> thought would be EVEN BETTER. He said this in email, so I did not get a 
>> vote. I picked up the bike today. The rear rack was expertly fitted. The 
>> kickstand…I know he meant well, but…
>>
>> But it wasn’t the SAME. 
>>
>> It’s this foreign thing on my bike. Chunky and stout. It’s a Portland 
>> Design Works stand; this one, I think: 
>> https://ridepdw.com/products/power-stance-kickstand
>>
>> I haven’t gotten used to it. It’s been 4 hours. I don’t know if I can get 
>> used to it. This is my club ride bike and that kickstand is…a lot. The rack 
>> will get switched back - I just wanted the new one ready for plug and play 
>> for a summer tour. But what should I do about that kickstand? 
>>
>> I could buy the one that is on my mermaid Platy. I think I want to be 
>> done with the kickstands that you have to cut to size. I’m liking that this 
>> one is adjustable. 
>>
>> Is it as horrible as I think? I think it’s worse in real life than the 
>> photos show. Also, it’s dark and I had to alter these photos a lot so you 
>> could see well enough. Colors will be distorted. Anyway, I’m sending pics 
>> in the following post…
>>
>> Who will help their RivSister? Who can understand her peculiar brand of 
>> angst? Who has words of wisdom, or even constructive criticism? Who else is 
>> nutty about small things that barely matter? Who has been crying in bike 
>> shop parking lots and hand-wringing in the garage, staring at these 
>> foreign, new, transplanted parts?
>>
>> Pics forthcoming…
>> Leah
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Hand-Wringing: Kickstand Edition

2023-03-01 Thread Garth

I remember when the name Platypus was sprung on us you were pretty upset 
Leah. When you realized the frame itself was the perfect design for you, 
you warmed up to the name. 

The other kickstand broke, for whatever reason. Who wants that kind of same 
? !!!  

Does the PDW stand work good for you ?  If it does, just keep using it for 
awhile. I mean if it's there and it works, you may as well try it out for 
awhile. You can always change it later. Is it a beauty ? Of course not. 
Neither is a Greenfield, to me at least. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: 650b or 700 Bombadil frame question

2023-03-01 Thread JohnS

I agree with Laing, I spend way too much time setting up canti brakes. I 
usually remove the tires and even the fenders when installing them. This 
allows me to see how well aligned the brake pad is to the rim as Laing has 
noted. I prefer to use brake pad holders for this reason, set them up once 
and when the pads wear out, slide out the old pads and slide in the new. No 
adjustments necessary.

JohnS

On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 8:46:30 AM UTC-5 lconley wrote:

> That is a pretty good video - he uses the tool to show the 90 degree 
> angle. He points out that lowering the straddle (making the straddle cable 
> flatter) results in better braking. He even talks about getting the pads as 
> close to the arm as possible with the Neo-Retro (wide profile) style 
> cantilevers. To steal a phrase from someone - Approve!
>
> Laing
>
> On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 8:19:44 AM UTC-5 maxcr wrote:
>
>> I found this Path Less Pedaled video useful when I installed the Paul 
>> Touring Cantis on my Atlantis: 
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDdWIq4cLLo
>>
>> Thanks everyone for your responses and particularly to  Laing for that 
>> masterclass on how to set up cantis!
>>
>> Max who's still rethinking handlebar and drivetrain choices for the 
>> upcoming Bombadil
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 8:13:39 AM UTC-5 lconley wrote:
>>
>>> Remember that flat at the straddle and 90 deg at the arms fight each 
>>> other - it is always a compromise.
>>>
>>> Laing
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 8:41:13 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 Laing: Thanks for this detailed and informing overview; I have read it 
 through and will read it again slowly, but I think I get it: 90* to brake 
 arm pivots + as flat as possible at straddle, as little toe-in as you can 
 get by with to prevent squeal, and make sure that the pads meet the rim 
 brake tracks squarely. I've already done the last 2, must go back and look 
 at the first 2. The single rear rack strut to seatstay bridge may limit my 
 options in the rear. My pads are old Kool Stop salmons, the short, blocky 
 sort. I did make various shim tools for toe in, must seek those out again.

 Thanks again!

 On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 3:52 PM lconley  wrote:

> Geometry is all important with cantilevers. I will use Paul models for 
> reference. Note that at a certain level, V-brakes are just optimized 
> cantilevers, so much so that they have too much braking force that must 
> be 
> reduced at the levers. If maximizing braking force is the be-all, end all 
> of braking, then why use levers that reduce the braking force? But there 
> is 
> something to be said for V-brakes having less tension (and therefore 
> stretch) on the brake cable.
>
> 1. You want the straddle cable operating at, or as close as possible 
> to a 90 degree angle to a line drawn from the brake arm pivot axis (the 
> post brazed/welded to the frame) to the straddle cable connection to the 
> arm. This is much easier on a Paul Touring than a Paul Neo-Retro. 
> Motolites 
> are basically taking the progression to it's conclusion (Neo-Retro -> 
> Touring -> Motolite). Note that when working with Neo-Retros, this 
> generally means rotating the arms as far towards the rim as possible, 
> using 
> the fewest, narrowest spacers between the pad and arm as possible (and 
> that 
> is allowed by your tires). This is where some "experts" get it all wrong, 
> they seem to think that the rotation of the arm changes the direct of 
> travel of the pad at the rim - i.e. the arm carrying the pad should be 
> straight up, which is untrue. The direction of travel of the pad at the 
> rim 
> is fixed by where the relative location of the pivot is to the rim-pad 
> interface - only a welder can be used to adjust this. The pivot is below 
> and outside the rim -> the pad will ALWAYS be traveling in a downward arc 
> relative to the rim. Note that because V-brakes use the same pivots as 
> cantilevers, the cheapest POS cantilevers that you can find vs. Paul 
> Motolites - on a given bike, the pads are traveling in exactly the same 
> arc, this is a function of the frame and wheel, not the brakes nor the 
> brake adjustment.
>
> 2. Ideally, you want the straddle cable as close to straight as 
> possible where it goes through straddle cable carrier -> the straddle 
> cable 
> as short as possible. This is a very unappreciated part of the equation. 
> When you apply a perpendicular pressure at the center of a straight 
> cable, 
> you would actually get an infinite tension in the cable if it did not 
> stretch. This a very handy thing to use in many instances - you can move 
> a 
> car with only a rope and this principal. The cosine of 90 degrees is 0. 
> When you divide by 0, you get infinity.

Re: [RBW] Re: 650b or 700 Bombadil frame question

That is a pretty good video - he uses the tool to show the 90 degree angle. 
He points out that lowering the straddle (making the straddle cable 
flatter) results in better braking. He even talks about getting the pads as 
close to the arm as possible with the Neo-Retro (wide profile) style 
cantilevers. To steal a phrase from someone - Approve!

Laing

On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 8:19:44 AM UTC-5 maxcr wrote:

> I found this Path Less Pedaled video useful when I installed the Paul 
> Touring Cantis on my Atlantis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDdWIq4cLLo
>
> Thanks everyone for your responses and particularly to  Laing for that 
> masterclass on how to set up cantis!
>
> Max who's still rethinking handlebar and drivetrain choices for the 
> upcoming Bombadil
>
> On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 8:13:39 AM UTC-5 lconley wrote:
>
>> Remember that flat at the straddle and 90 deg at the arms fight each 
>> other - it is always a compromise.
>>
>> Laing
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 8:41:13 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Laing: Thanks for this detailed and informing overview; I have read it 
>>> through and will read it again slowly, but I think I get it: 90* to brake 
>>> arm pivots + as flat as possible at straddle, as little toe-in as you can 
>>> get by with to prevent squeal, and make sure that the pads meet the rim 
>>> brake tracks squarely. I've already done the last 2, must go back and look 
>>> at the first 2. The single rear rack strut to seatstay bridge may limit my 
>>> options in the rear. My pads are old Kool Stop salmons, the short, blocky 
>>> sort. I did make various shim tools for toe in, must seek those out again.
>>>
>>> Thanks again!
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 3:52 PM lconley  wrote:
>>>
 Geometry is all important with cantilevers. I will use Paul models for 
 reference. Note that at a certain level, V-brakes are just optimized 
 cantilevers, so much so that they have too much braking force that must be 
 reduced at the levers. If maximizing braking force is the be-all, end all 
 of braking, then why use levers that reduce the braking force? But there 
 is 
 something to be said for V-brakes having less tension (and therefore 
 stretch) on the brake cable.

 1. You want the straddle cable operating at, or as close as possible to 
 a 90 degree angle to a line drawn from the brake arm pivot axis (the post 
 brazed/welded to the frame) to the straddle cable connection to the arm. 
 This is much easier on a Paul Touring than a Paul Neo-Retro. Motolites are 
 basically taking the progression to it's conclusion (Neo-Retro -> Touring 
 -> Motolite). Note that when working with Neo-Retros, this generally means 
 rotating the arms as far towards the rim as possible, using the fewest, 
 narrowest spacers between the pad and arm as possible (and that is allowed 
 by your tires). This is where some "experts" get it all wrong, they seem 
 to 
 think that the rotation of the arm changes the direct of travel of the pad 
 at the rim - i.e. the arm carrying the pad should be straight up, which is 
 untrue. The direction of travel of the pad at the rim is fixed by where 
 the 
 relative location of the pivot is to the rim-pad interface - only a welder 
 can be used to adjust this. The pivot is below and outside the rim -> the 
 pad will ALWAYS be traveling in a downward arc relative to the rim. Note 
 that because V-brakes use the same pivots as cantilevers, the cheapest POS 
 cantilevers that you can find vs. Paul Motolites - on a given bike, the 
 pads are traveling in exactly the same arc, this is a function of the 
 frame 
 and wheel, not the brakes nor the brake adjustment.

 2. Ideally, you want the straddle cable as close to straight as 
 possible where it goes through straddle cable carrier -> the straddle 
 cable 
 as short as possible. This is a very unappreciated part of the equation. 
 When you apply a perpendicular pressure at the center of a straight cable, 
 you would actually get an infinite tension in the cable if it did not 
 stretch. This a very handy thing to use in many instances - you can move a 
 car with only a rope and this principal. The cosine of 90 degrees is 0. 
 When you divide by 0, you get infinity. If you want to prove this to 
 yourself - make a straddle cable between the ends of a V-brake and use a 
 straddle cable hanger connected to the brake cable cantilever/centerpull 
 style.

 3. There is an interaction between 1 and 2 - as you make the straddle 
 cable straighter (#2), you lose the 90 degree angle (#1). On top of that 
 as 
 the cables, straddle hanger, and brake arms move, and the cables stretch; 
 the geometry changes. With Neo-Retros, getting the arm as close to the rim 
 as possible also raises the straddle cable arm interface up,

Re: [RBW] Re: 650b or 700 Bombadil frame question

2023-03-01 Thread maxcr

I found this Path Less Pedaled video useful when I installed the Paul 
Touring Cantis on my Atlantis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDdWIq4cLLo

Thanks everyone for your responses and particularly to  Laing for that 
masterclass on how to set up cantis!

Max who's still rethinking handlebar and drivetrain choices for the 
upcoming Bombadil

On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 8:13:39 AM UTC-5 lconley wrote:

> Remember that flat at the straddle and 90 deg at the arms fight each other 
> - it is always a compromise.
>
> Laing
>
> On Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 8:41:13 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Laing: Thanks for this detailed and informing overview; I have read it 
>> through and will read it again slowly, but I think I get it: 90* to brake 
>> arm pivots + as flat as possible at straddle, as little toe-in as you can 
>> get by with to prevent squeal, and make sure that the pads meet the rim 
>> brake tracks squarely. I've already done the last 2, must go back and look 
>> at the first 2. The single rear rack strut to seatstay bridge may limit my 
>> options in the rear. My pads are old Kool Stop salmons, the short, blocky 
>> sort. I did make various shim tools for toe in, must seek those out again.
>>
>> Thanks again!
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 3:52 PM lconley  wrote:
>>
>>> Geometry is all important with cantilevers. I will use Paul models for 
>>> reference. Note that at a certain level, V-brakes are just optimized 
>>> cantilevers, so much so that they have too much braking force that must be 
>>> reduced at the levers. If maximizing braking force is the be-all, end all 
>>> of braking, then why use levers that reduce the braking force? But there is 
>>> something to be said for V-brakes having less tension (and therefore 
>>> stretch) on the brake cable.
>>>
>>> 1. You want the straddle cable operating at, or as close as possible to 
>>> a 90 degree angle to a line drawn from the brake arm pivot axis (the post 
>>> brazed/welded to the frame) to the straddle cable connection to the arm. 
>>> This is much easier on a Paul Touring than a Paul Neo-Retro. Motolites are 
>>> basically taking the progression to it's conclusion (Neo-Retro -> Touring 
>>> -> Motolite). Note that when working with Neo-Retros, this generally means 
>>> rotating the arms as far towards the rim as possible, using the fewest, 
>>> narrowest spacers between the pad and arm as possible (and that is allowed 
>>> by your tires). This is where some "experts" get it all wrong, they seem to 
>>> think that the rotation of the arm changes the direct of travel of the pad 
>>> at the rim - i.e. the arm carrying the pad should be straight up, which is 
>>> untrue. The direction of travel of the pad at the rim is fixed by where the 
>>> relative location of the pivot is to the rim-pad interface - only a welder 
>>> can be used to adjust this. The pivot is below and outside the rim -> the 
>>> pad will ALWAYS be traveling in a downward arc relative to the rim. Note 
>>> that because V-brakes use the same pivots as cantilevers, the cheapest POS 
>>> cantilevers that you can find vs. Paul Motolites - on a given bike, the 
>>> pads are traveling in exactly the same arc, this is a function of the frame 
>>> and wheel, not the brakes nor the brake adjustment.
>>>
>>> 2. Ideally, you want the straddle cable as close to straight as possible 
>>> where it goes through straddle cable carrier -> the straddle cable as short 
>>> as possible. This is a very unappreciated part of the equation. When you 
>>> apply a perpendicular pressure at the center of a straight cable, you would 
>>> actually get an infinite tension in the cable if it did not stretch. This a 
>>> very handy thing to use in many instances - you can move a car with only a 
>>> rope and this principal. The cosine of 90 degrees is 0. When you divide by 
>>> 0, you get infinity. If you want to prove this to yourself - make a 
>>> straddle cable between the ends of a V-brake and use a straddle cable 
>>> hanger connected to the brake cable cantilever/centerpull style.
>>>
>>> 3. There is an interaction between 1 and 2 - as you make the straddle 
>>> cable straighter (#2), you lose the 90 degree angle (#1). On top of that as 
>>> the cables, straddle hanger, and brake arms move, and the cables stretch; 
>>> the geometry changes. With Neo-Retros, getting the arm as close to the rim 
>>> as possible also raises the straddle cable arm interface up, getting the 
>>> arm-cable angle closer to 90 degrees. Note that means having your wheels 
>>> extremely true and minimizing the pad gap and toe-in. As the brake arm 
>>> rotates under application of the brake, this angle improves - gets closer 
>>> to 90 degrees again. As the straddle hanger rises under brake application, 
>>> this also gets the brake arm - straddle cable angle closer to 90 degrees 
>>> and increasing your braking force. But as all of this is going on, the 
>>> straddle cable at the straddle hanger is getting less straight,

Re: [RBW] Re: 650b or 700 Bombadil frame question