[RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
Yeah, I've heard/read that, too, somewhere, but it don't make sense to me. The brake bridge looks to me like a pre-manufactured piece that gets brazed in place after its holes have already been made. I assume that the frame gets held at some point by this brake bridge, but how one extra little hole would make that impossible, I can't imagine. Gernot On Sep 4, 2:09 am, Thomas Lynn Skean thomaslynnsk...@comcast.net wrote: Saw somewhere on the group that Waterford's frame-building process involved holding the frame in such a way as to make it difficult to drill and/or thread the fender 'boss under the bridge. Merely parroting; I don't know enough to know whether this makes sense. But I do like appearing knowledgable! Yours, Thomas Lynn Skean thrilled to be a 60cm 2TT Hillborne owner If offered my choice of a 2nd bike right now, it'd be a 2nd 60cm Hillborne of any kind On Sep 3, 11:03 am, Earl Grey earlg...@gmail.com wrote: Not sure about the Sam forks. I think the Hunqa forks were supposed to be Toyo-built. That said, I have a first run (Taiwanese?) Sam (bought Sept 09), which has the 3 dot fork crown, slender fork blades, and cantilevers (but has the seatstay bridge with the hole underneath for direct fender mounting w/o sliding bracket). For what it's worth, but it's curious that my Taiwan Sam is more similar to the Waterford Sam than the Taiwan Sam in the photos. I love my Sam, and while I agree that all the changes are trivial, I personally do really appreciate the ability to mount a rear fender directly. Don't know why Waterford won't use those seatstay bridges. Gernot On Sep 2, 2:03 am, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote: Did I read somewhere that the Maxway frame uses a Toyo built fork? Toyo did a fine job on prior forks, so one wonders why the one pictured by Bryan seems stockier. To be honest, both bikes look great to me. I like the paint on the Maxway a bit better, but agree that the Waterford crown is nicer. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
My 1996 Waterford-built All-Rounder has a fender mount under the brake bridge, so the issue is not that they are not capable of doing it. If they are using a solid cast brake bridge, that may be the issue- there is nowhere for the end of the bolt to go. The bridge on my A/R is a bit of tubing so it is hollow and the nose of the bolt has a space to go into. On Sep 4, 2010, at 9:11 AM, Earl Grey wrote: Yeah, I've heard/read that, too, somewhere, but it don't make sense to me. The brake bridge looks to me like a pre-manufactured piece that gets brazed in place after its holes have already been made. I assume that the frame gets held at some point by this brake bridge, but how one extra little hole would make that impossible, I can't imagine. On Sep 4, 2:09 am, Thomas Lynn Skean thomaslynnsk...@comcast.net wrote: Saw somewhere on the group that Waterford's frame-building process involved holding the frame in such a way as to make it difficult to drill and/or thread the fender 'boss under the bridge. Merely parroting; I don't know enough to know whether this makes sense. But I do like appearing knowledgable! On Sep 3, 11:03 am, Earl Grey earlg...@gmail.com wrote: Not sure about the Sam forks. I think the Hunqa forks were supposed to be Toyo-built. That said, I have a first run (Taiwanese?) Sam (bought Sept 09), which has the 3 dot fork crown, slender fork blades, and cantilevers (but has the seatstay bridge with the hole underneath for direct fender mounting w/o sliding bracket). For what it's worth, but it's curious that my Taiwan Sam is more similar to the Waterford Sam than the Taiwan Sam in the photos. I love my Sam, and while I agree that all the changes are trivial, I personally do really appreciate the ability to mount a rear fender directly. Don't know why Waterford won't use those seatstay bridges. On Sep 2, 2:03 am, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote: Did I read somewhere that the Maxway frame uses a Toyo built fork? Toyo did a fine job on prior forks, so one wonders why the one pictured by Bryan seems stockier. To be honest, both bikes look great to me. I like the paint on the Maxway a bit better, but agree that the Waterford crown is nicer. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
can we say Grant is a marketing expert? And he creates fine bikes and he is not afraid to throw the noodles against the wall and see what sticks? 650B and double top tubes fit in there somewhere. To me the single sloping top tube, lugged Sam is the cat's pajamas...whatever that means. Richard Schwinn has been selling the lugged sloping top tube Adventure Cycle at Waterford for many years. It costs a big bundle with the Waterford name on it. I wanted one forever. Then came the Sam. I went for tigged Gunnar Sport with custom threaded Waterford fork. That fits my needs perfectly. But the orange Sam is about as good as it gets. On Sep 1, 11:04 am, Bryan @ Renaissance Bicycles renaissancebicyc...@gmail.com wrote: In the Shop we happen to have two 56cm Hillbornes. One is the Taiwanese made Maxway, the other is the Waterford version from WI. Of course, we couldn't help but take photos:http://www.renaissancebicycles.com/gallery/?album=7gallery=66 Obviously, the double toptuber is the Waterford version. It also includes braze-ons for cantilever brakes, and a rear bridge for the cable stop. The fork crowns are different. Because I know people will ask ... the weight difference between the frames is 8 ounces. For perspective, that is about the difference between a full water bottle and one that is 3/4 full. Both bikes are in our build queue; we'll post pictures when they are complete. Now, let the debate begin ... Bryan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
i think i have a second generation sam. when i was ordering it i was talking to dave, i think, and we were talking about fit. i was trying to decide stem length and he mentioned that the top tube on this frame was a cm shorter than on the previous generation. if i measure the effective tt on center it's 58, or 57 i should probably re-measure. but it's not 59. looks like the waterford. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
Not sure about the Sam forks. I think the Hunqa forks were supposed to be Toyo-built. That said, I have a first run (Taiwanese?) Sam (bought Sept 09), which has the 3 dot fork crown, slender fork blades, and cantilevers (but has the seatstay bridge with the hole underneath for direct fender mounting w/o sliding bracket). For what it's worth, but it's curious that my Taiwan Sam is more similar to the Waterford Sam than the Taiwan Sam in the photos. I love my Sam, and while I agree that all the changes are trivial, I personally do really appreciate the ability to mount a rear fender directly. Don't know why Waterford won't use those seatstay bridges. Gernot On Sep 2, 2:03 am, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote: Did I read somewhere that the Maxway frame uses a Toyo built fork? Toyo did a fine job on prior forks, so one wonders why the one pictured by Bryan seems stockier. To be honest, both bikes look great to me. I like the paint on the Maxway a bit better, but agree that the Waterford crown is nicer. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
Saw somewhere on the group that Waterford's frame-building process involved holding the frame in such a way as to make it difficult to drill and/or thread the fender 'boss under the bridge. Merely parroting; I don't know enough to know whether this makes sense. But I do like appearing knowledgable! Yours, Thomas Lynn Skean thrilled to be a 60cm 2TT Hillborne owner If offered my choice of a 2nd bike right now, it'd be a 2nd 60cm Hillborne of any kind On Sep 3, 11:03 am, Earl Grey earlg...@gmail.com wrote: Not sure about the Sam forks. I think the Hunqa forks were supposed to be Toyo-built. That said, I have a first run (Taiwanese?) Sam (bought Sept 09), which has the 3 dot fork crown, slender fork blades, and cantilevers (but has the seatstay bridge with the hole underneath for direct fender mounting w/o sliding bracket). For what it's worth, but it's curious that my Taiwan Sam is more similar to the Waterford Sam than the Taiwan Sam in the photos. I love my Sam, and while I agree that all the changes are trivial, I personally do really appreciate the ability to mount a rear fender directly. Don't know why Waterford won't use those seatstay bridges. Gernot On Sep 2, 2:03 am, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote: Did I read somewhere that the Maxway frame uses a Toyo built fork? Toyo did a fine job on prior forks, so one wonders why the one pictured by Bryan seems stockier. To be honest, both bikes look great to me. I like the paint on the Maxway a bit better, but agree that the Waterford crown is nicer. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
Really? You can't tell that you have a full bottle on your bike? It feels like an extra pound. I feel it when I'm out of the saddle. I don't feel like a princess and the pea kind of rider, but my bike feels different with a full bottle. I can feel 175mm cranks, or 25mm tires instead of 28s. I don't have super-pronounced preferences, but I notice. If it was 75 yesterday and 78 today, today feels hotter. You're making me feel like Rain Man here. ...and... I just realized I AM a Princess and the Pea kind of rider. Damn. Philip www.biketinker.com this is a song Jerry Lee Lewis wrote before he killed one of his wives... On Sep 1, 5:34 pm, doug peterson dougpn...@cox.net wrote: Because I know people will ask ... the weight difference between the frames is 8 ounces. For perspective, that is about the difference between a full water bottle and one that is 3/4 full. Now that puts the weight in real terms. I defy anyone to tell the difference in how their bike performs with a full bottle or empty bottle, let alone partially full. Thanks for the info, Bryan. dougP On Sep 1, 11:04 am, Bryan @ Renaissance Bicycles renaissancebicyc...@gmail.com wrote: In the Shop we happen to have two 56cm Hillbornes. One is the Taiwanese made Maxway, the other is the Waterford version from WI. Of course, we couldn't help but take photos:http://www.renaissancebicycles.com/gallery/?album=7gallery=66 Obviously, the double toptuber is the Waterford version. It also includes braze-ons for cantilever brakes, and a rear bridge for the cable stop. The fork crowns are different. Because I know people will ask ... the weight difference between the frames is 8 ounces. For perspective, that is about the difference between a full water bottle and one that is 3/4 full. Both bikes are in our build queue; we'll post pictures when they are complete. Now, let the debate begin ... Bryan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
I must be an insensitive lug then, because I certainly do not notice a 7.29 oz difference ( 28oz bottle 3/4 full vrs full) which is .45 lb. For me that is a .2% difference in total bike +rider weight. I still find the 2nd parallel top tube unappealing visually. Must be that aging SoCal hipster thing. ~Mike~ On Sep 1, 11:13 pm, Philip Williamson philip.william...@gmail.com wrote: Really? You can't tell that you have a full bottle on your bike? It feels like an extra pound. I feel it when I'm out of the saddle. I don't feel like a princess and the pea kind of rider, but my bike feels different with a full bottle. I can feel 175mm cranks, or 25mm tires instead of 28s. I don't have super-pronounced preferences, but I notice. If it was 75 yesterday and 78 today, today feels hotter. You're making me feel like Rain Man here. ...and... I just realized I AM a Princess and the Pea kind of rider. Damn. Philipwww.biketinker.com this is a song Jerry Lee Lewis wrote before he killed one of his wives... On Sep 1, 5:34 pm, doug peterson dougpn...@cox.net wrote: Because I know people will ask ... the weight difference between the frames is 8 ounces. For perspective, that is about the difference between a full water bottle and one that is 3/4 full. Now that puts the weight in real terms. I defy anyone to tell the difference in how their bike performs with a full bottle or empty bottle, let alone partially full. Thanks for the info, Bryan. dougP On Sep 1, 11:04 am, Bryan @ Renaissance Bicycles renaissancebicyc...@gmail.com wrote: In the Shop we happen to have two 56cm Hillbornes. One is the Taiwanese made Maxway, the other is the Waterford version from WI. Of course, we couldn't help but take photos:http://www.renaissancebicycles.com/gallery/?album=7gallery=66 Obviously, the double toptuber is the Waterford version. It also includes braze-ons for cantilever brakes, and a rear bridge for the cable stop. The fork crowns are different. Because I know people will ask ... the weight difference between the frames is 8 ounces. For perspective, that is about the difference between a full water bottle and one that is 3/4 full. Both bikes are in our build queue; we'll post pictures when they are complete. Now, let the debate begin ... Bryan- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
I really like to double TT. I liked it when brought it in on the bigger bikes and like the function of it. I like it even more on the smaller bikes (56 SH) where it could be argued that there is no real function. What's cooler than a few extra lugs and a spare tt? I also really like that Waterford is making'em. Cheers! cm -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
I'll vote (kind of). I'm surprised at how close the weights are. I think the double TT looks cool, and I'd find useful. On BART I have to grab hard on the seat tube to portage the bike up stairs, because I'd get a handful of frame pump if I grabbed the TT. A second TT would be a portage handle for me. I cannot think of another solution to that for under 8 ounces. Frame strength and stiffness-wise, I think the second TT is unnecessary. But, pretty lugs and a gorgeous headbadge aren't necessary either. I personally prefer cantilevers for a touring setup and sidepulls for a brevet/roadie setup. I wouldn't call either one 'better'. The thing I feel strongly about is the fork. I really don't like the fork on the single TT bike. I vastly prefer the curly crown, the curveback wings and especially the narrow tapered fork blades. The blades on the single TT one look clumsy and chubby. Ick. My 56cm Hillborne has a fork like the double TT version. Bottom line, if someone offered me a free trade of my single TT hillborne for a double TT hillborne, I'd probably take it. I would not pay $250 for the upgrade. Mine is perfectly fine. If I had to buy one of those two framesets from RenBikes today, I would absolutely pick the double TT one, and I would pay the $250 extra because A/ the fork is way nicer looking B/ I personally prefer cantilevers for my Hillborne setup and C/ I like the double TT. On Sep 1, 11:04 am, Bryan @ Renaissance Bicycles renaissancebicyc...@gmail.com wrote: In the Shop we happen to have two 56cm Hillbornes. One is the Taiwanese made Maxway, the other is the Waterford version from WI. Of course, we couldn't help but take photos:http://www.renaissancebicycles.com/gallery/?album=7gallery=66 Obviously, the double toptuber is the Waterford version. It also includes braze-ons for cantilever brakes, and a rear bridge for the cable stop. The fork crowns are different. Because I know people will ask ... the weight difference between the frames is 8 ounces. For perspective, that is about the difference between a full water bottle and one that is 3/4 full. Both bikes are in our build queue; we'll post pictures when they are complete. Now, let the debate begin ... Bryan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
Did I read somewhere that the Maxway frame uses a Toyo built fork? Toyo did a fine job on prior forks, so one wonders why the one pictured by Bryan seems stockier. To be honest, both bikes look great to me. I like the paint on the Maxway a bit better, but agree that the Waterford crown is nicer. From: William tapebu...@gmail.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, September 1, 2010 1:55:35 PM Subject: [RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne I'll vote (kind of). I'm surprised at how close the weights are. I think the double TT looks cool, and I'd find useful. On BART I have to grab hard on the seat tube to portage the bike up stairs, because I'd get a handful of frame pump if I grabbed the TT. A second TT would be a portage handle for me. I cannot think of another solution to that for under 8 ounces. Frame strength and stiffness-wise, I think the second TT is unnecessary. But, pretty lugs and a gorgeous headbadge aren't necessary either. I personally prefer cantilevers for a touring setup and sidepulls for a brevet/roadie setup. I wouldn't call either one 'better'. The thing I feel strongly about is the fork. I really don't like the fork on the single TT bike. I vastly prefer the curly crown, the curveback wings and especially the narrow tapered fork blades. The blades on the single TT one look clumsy and chubby. Ick. My 56cm Hillborne has a fork like the double TT version. Bottom line, if someone offered me a free trade of my single TT hillborne for a double TT hillborne, I'd probably take it. I would not pay $250 for the upgrade. Mine is perfectly fine. If I had to buy one of those two framesets from RenBikes today, I would absolutely pick the double TT one, and I would pay the $250 extra because A/ the fork is way nicer looking B/ I personally prefer cantilevers for my Hillborne setup and C/ I like the double TT. On Sep 1, 11:04 am, Bryan @ Renaissance Bicycles renaissancebicyc...@gmail.com wrote: In the Shop we happen to have two 56cm Hillbornes. One is the Taiwanese made Maxway, the other is the Waterford version from WI. Of course, we couldn't help but take photos:http://www.renaissancebicycles.com/gallery/?album=7gallery=66 Obviously, the double toptuber is the Waterford version. It also includes braze-ons for cantilever brakes, and a rear bridge for the cable stop. The fork crowns are different. Because I know people will ask ... the weight difference between the frames is 8 ounces. For perspective, that is about the difference between a full water bottle and one that is 3/4 full. Both bikes are in our build queue; we'll post pictures when they are complete. Now, let the debate begin ... Bryan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
I also thought that someone else (not Maxway) was doing the forks, but can't remember who. Given that the lugs appear identical otherwise, i'm surprised in the differences in the forks, especially that the canti version seems to have narrower tapered legs. The fork bend looks the same on both, which is nice (i'm a fan of Riv's nice forks). Unless it's a trick of the light, the orange on the Waterford version looks a bit deeper. I agree, both are nice frames. On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote: Did I read somewhere that the Maxway frame uses a Toyo built fork? Toyo did a fine job on prior forks, so one wonders why the one pictured by Bryan seems stockier. To be honest, both bikes look great to me. I like the paint on the Maxway a bit better, but agree that the Waterford crown is nicer. From: William tapebu...@gmail.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, September 1, 2010 1:55:35 PM Subject: [RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne I'll vote (kind of). I'm surprised at how close the weights are. I think the double TT looks cool, and I'd find useful. On BART I have to grab hard on the seat tube to portage the bike up stairs, because I'd get a handful of frame pump if I grabbed the TT. A second TT would be a portage handle for me. I cannot think of another solution to that for under 8 ounces. Frame strength and stiffness-wise, I think the second TT is unnecessary. But, pretty lugs and a gorgeous headbadge aren't necessary either. I personally prefer cantilevers for a touring setup and sidepulls for a brevet/roadie setup. I wouldn't call either one 'better'. The thing I feel strongly about is the fork. I really don't like the fork on the single TT bike. I vastly prefer the curly crown, the curveback wings and especially the narrow tapered fork blades. The blades on the single TT one look clumsy and chubby. Ick. My 56cm Hillborne has a fork like the double TT version. Bottom line, if someone offered me a free trade of my single TT hillborne for a double TT hillborne, I'd probably take it. I would not pay $250 for the upgrade. Mine is perfectly fine. If I had to buy one of those two framesets from RenBikes today, I would absolutely pick the double TT one, and I would pay the $250 extra because A/ the fork is way nicer looking B/ I personally prefer cantilevers for my Hillborne setup and C/ I like the double TT. On Sep 1, 11:04 am, Bryan @ Renaissance Bicycles renaissancebicyc...@gmail.com wrote: In the Shop we happen to have two 56cm Hillbornes. One is the Taiwanese made Maxway, the other is the Waterford version from WI. Of course, we couldn't help but take photos:http://www.renaissancebicycles.com/gallery/?album=7gallery=66 Obviously, the double toptuber is the Waterford version. It also includes braze-ons for cantilever brakes, and a rear bridge for the cable stop. The fork crowns are different. Because I know people will ask ... the weight difference between the frames is 8 ounces. For perspective, that is about the difference between a full water bottle and one that is 3/4 full. Both bikes are in our build queue; we'll post pictures when they are complete. Now, let the debate begin ... Bryan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Bill Connell St. Paul, MN -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
The Single TT one (Maxway?) has no BB cable guide installed!! Send it back! The Double TT one has a seatstay bridge that is not threaded underneath for a fender!! Send it back! On Sep 1, 12:14 pm, Bill Connell bconn...@gmail.com wrote: I also thought that someone else (not Maxway) was doing the forks, but can't remember who. Given that the lugs appear identical otherwise, i'm surprised in the differences in the forks, especially that the canti version seems to have narrower tapered legs. The fork bend looks the same on both, which is nice (i'm a fan of Riv's nice forks). Unless it's a trick of the light, the orange on the Waterford version looks a bit deeper. I agree, both are nice frames. On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote: Did I read somewhere that the Maxway frame uses a Toyo built fork? Toyo did a fine job on prior forks, so one wonders why the one pictured by Bryan seems stockier. To be honest, both bikes look great to me. I like the paint on the Maxway a bit better, but agree that the Waterford crown is nicer. From: William tapebu...@gmail.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, September 1, 2010 1:55:35 PM Subject: [RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne I'll vote (kind of). I'm surprised at how close the weights are. I think the double TT looks cool, and I'd find useful. On BART I have to grab hard on the seat tube to portage the bike up stairs, because I'd get a handful of frame pump if I grabbed the TT. A second TT would be a portage handle for me. I cannot think of another solution to that for under 8 ounces. Frame strength and stiffness-wise, I think the second TT is unnecessary. But, pretty lugs and a gorgeous headbadge aren't necessary either. I personally prefer cantilevers for a touring setup and sidepulls for a brevet/roadie setup. I wouldn't call either one 'better'. The thing I feel strongly about is the fork. I really don't like the fork on the single TT bike. I vastly prefer the curly crown, the curveback wings and especially the narrow tapered fork blades. The blades on the single TT one look clumsy and chubby. Ick. My 56cm Hillborne has a fork like the double TT version. Bottom line, if someone offered me a free trade of my single TT hillborne for a double TT hillborne, I'd probably take it. I would not pay $250 for the upgrade. Mine is perfectly fine. If I had to buy one of those two framesets from RenBikes today, I would absolutely pick the double TT one, and I would pay the $250 extra because A/ the fork is way nicer looking B/ I personally prefer cantilevers for my Hillborne setup and C/ I like the double TT. On Sep 1, 11:04 am, Bryan @ Renaissance Bicycles renaissancebicyc...@gmail.com wrote: In the Shop we happen to have two 56cm Hillbornes. One is the Taiwanese made Maxway, the other is the Waterford version from WI. Of course, we couldn't help but take photos:http://www.renaissancebicycles.com/gallery/?album=7gallery=66 Obviously, the double toptuber is the Waterford version. It also includes braze-ons for cantilever brakes, and a rear bridge for the cable stop. The fork crowns are different. Because I know people will ask ... the weight difference between the frames is 8 ounces. For perspective, that is about the difference between a full water bottle and one that is 3/4 full. Both bikes are in our build queue; we'll post pictures when they are complete. Now, let the debate begin ... Bryan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Bill Connell St. Paul, MN -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
Indeed - I'd be happy to dispose of them properly, just email directly for my shipping address :-) Bill On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 2:35 PM, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: The Single TT one (Maxway?) has no BB cable guide installed!! Send it back! The Double TT one has a seatstay bridge that is not threaded underneath for a fender!! Send it back! On Sep 1, 12:14 pm, Bill Connell bconn...@gmail.com wrote: I also thought that someone else (not Maxway) was doing the forks, but can't remember who. Given that the lugs appear identical otherwise, i'm surprised in the differences in the forks, especially that the canti version seems to have narrower tapered legs. The fork bend looks the same on both, which is nice (i'm a fan of Riv's nice forks). Unless it's a trick of the light, the orange on the Waterford version looks a bit deeper. I agree, both are nice frames. On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote: Did I read somewhere that the Maxway frame uses a Toyo built fork? Toyo did a fine job on prior forks, so one wonders why the one pictured by Bryan seems stockier. To be honest, both bikes look great to me. I like the paint on the Maxway a bit better, but agree that the Waterford crown is nicer. From: William tapebu...@gmail.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, September 1, 2010 1:55:35 PM Subject: [RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne I'll vote (kind of). I'm surprised at how close the weights are. I think the double TT looks cool, and I'd find useful. On BART I have to grab hard on the seat tube to portage the bike up stairs, because I'd get a handful of frame pump if I grabbed the TT. A second TT would be a portage handle for me. I cannot think of another solution to that for under 8 ounces. Frame strength and stiffness-wise, I think the second TT is unnecessary. But, pretty lugs and a gorgeous headbadge aren't necessary either. I personally prefer cantilevers for a touring setup and sidepulls for a brevet/roadie setup. I wouldn't call either one 'better'. The thing I feel strongly about is the fork. I really don't like the fork on the single TT bike. I vastly prefer the curly crown, the curveback wings and especially the narrow tapered fork blades. The blades on the single TT one look clumsy and chubby. Ick. My 56cm Hillborne has a fork like the double TT version. Bottom line, if someone offered me a free trade of my single TT hillborne for a double TT hillborne, I'd probably take it. I would not pay $250 for the upgrade. Mine is perfectly fine. If I had to buy one of those two framesets from RenBikes today, I would absolutely pick the double TT one, and I would pay the $250 extra because A/ the fork is way nicer looking B/ I personally prefer cantilevers for my Hillborne setup and C/ I like the double TT. On Sep 1, 11:04 am, Bryan @ Renaissance Bicycles renaissancebicyc...@gmail.com wrote: In the Shop we happen to have two 56cm Hillbornes. One is the Taiwanese made Maxway, the other is the Waterford version from WI. Of course, we couldn't help but take photos:http://www.renaissancebicycles.com/gallery/?album=7gallery=66 Obviously, the double toptuber is the Waterford version. It also includes braze-ons for cantilever brakes, and a rear bridge for the cable stop. The fork crowns are different. Because I know people will ask ... the weight difference between the frames is 8 ounces. For perspective, that is about the difference between a full water bottle and one that is 3/4 full. Both bikes are in our build queue; we'll post pictures when they are complete. Now, let the debate begin ... Bryan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Bill Connell St. Paul, MN -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. --
[RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
On Sep 1, 11:04 am, Bryan @ Renaissance Bicycles renaissancebicyc...@gmail.com wrote: In the Shop we happen to have two 56cm Hillbornes. One is the Taiwanese made Maxway, the other is the Waterford version from WI. Of course, we couldn't help but take photos:http://www.renaissancebicycles.com/gallery/?album=7gallery=66 Obviously, the double toptuber is the Waterford version. It also includes braze-ons for cantilever brakes, and a rear bridge for the cable stop. The fork crowns are different. Because I know people will ask ... the weight difference between the frames is 8 ounces. For perspective, that is about the difference between a full water bottle and one that is 3/4 full. Both bikes are in our build queue; we'll post pictures when they are complete. Now, let the debate begin ... I wonder if Grant/Riv would ever consider making a Paris-Galiber style bike: http://www.classicrendezvous.com/images/bike%20shops/Bicycle-Odyssey/Gablier_replica.jpg http://www.classicrendezvous.com/British_isles/Paris_Gablier_main.htm -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
On Sep 1, 11:04 am, Bryan @ Renaissance Bicycles renaissancebicyc...@gmail.com wrote: In the Shop we happen to have two 56cm Hillbornes. One is the Taiwanese made Maxway, the other is the Waterford version from WI. Of course, we couldn't help but take photos:http://www.renaissancebicycles.com/gallery/?album=7gallery=66 Obviously, the double toptuber is the Waterford version. It also includes braze-ons for cantilever brakes, and a rear bridge for the cable stop. The fork crowns are different. Because I know people will ask ... the weight difference between the frames is 8 ounces. For perspective, that is about the difference between a full water bottle and one that is 3/4 full. Both bikes are in our build queue; we'll post pictures when they are complete. Now, let the debate begin ... OK, I don't get it. These are 56cm frames, not 60/64/68 cm. I haven't ridden a bike with one of these frames, but are the single top tube frames flexy? Why the need for a double top tube?! Seems unnecessary. I know this isn't the bombadil and the frameset is designed to go off- road, but what's the purpose? Or is it a trademark thing for Riv since they seem to be the only retailer out there selling bikes with double top tubes. Good Luck! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
but what's the purpose? obviously to protect the frame pump and to allow me to carry up the Bart stairs more easily Duh On Sep 1, 11:35 am, bfd bfd...@gmail.com wrote: On Sep 1, 11:04 am, Bryan @ Renaissance Bicycles renaissancebicyc...@gmail.com wrote: In the Shop we happen to have two 56cm Hillbornes. One is the Taiwanese made Maxway, the other is the Waterford version from WI. Of course, we couldn't help but take photos:http://www.renaissancebicycles.com/gallery/?album=7gallery=66 Obviously, the double toptuber is the Waterford version. It also includes braze-ons for cantilever brakes, and a rear bridge for the cable stop. The fork crowns are different. Because I know people will ask ... the weight difference between the frames is 8 ounces. For perspective, that is about the difference between a full water bottle and one that is 3/4 full. Both bikes are in our build queue; we'll post pictures when they are complete. Now, let the debate begin ... OK, I don't get it. These are 56cm frames, not 60/64/68 cm. I haven't ridden a bike with one of these frames, but are the single top tube frames flexy? Why the need for a double top tube?! Seems unnecessary. I know this isn't the bombadil and the frameset is designed to go off- road, but what's the purpose? Or is it a trademark thing for Riv since they seem to be the only retailer out there selling bikes with double top tubes. Good Luck! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
I really don't know why Riv has to go and make multiple different versions of this bike. Yes, I know the only answer that matters is because Grant wants to but even HE has to expend lots of unnecessary energy explaining to people why one version is, allegedly, as good as the other. Just when he convinces people that Taiwan-made bikes are real Rivendells he goes and has them made by Waterford. He puts different forks and brakes on them, even different forks on the Maxway bikes- Alan at EcoVelo has a 60cm Maxway Sam with cantis and what will, now, forever hence be known as the nice fork; I have a 60cm Maxway Sam with sidepulls and what will forever hence be known as the crappy fork. Maybe I'm just not used to this way of doing business, being a Riv rookie... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
Alan at EcoVelo has a 60cm Maxway Sam with cantis and what will, now, forever hence be known as the nice fork; I have a 60cm Maxway Sam with sidepulls and what will forever hence be known as the crappy fork. What qualities of Alan's fork make it better than yours? On Sep 1, 4:12 pm, Peter Pesce petepe...@gmail.com wrote: I really don't know why Riv has to go and make multiple different versions of this bike. Yes, I know the only answer that matters is because Grant wants to but even HE has to expend lots of unnecessary energy explaining to people why one version is, allegedly, as good as the other. Just when he convinces people that Taiwan-made bikes are real Rivendells he goes and has them made by Waterford. He puts different forks and brakes on them, even different forks on the Maxway bikes- Alan at EcoVelo has a 60cm Maxway Sam with cantis and what will, now, forever hence be known as the nice fork; I have a 60cm Maxway Sam with sidepulls and what will forever hence be known as the crappy fork. Maybe I'm just not used to this way of doing business, being a Riv rookie... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
I dont think calling it a crappy fork is fair. I have a Bleriot (obviously Taiwanese) and I dont think there is a crappy thing about it. Riv had supply problems with taiwan and needed another builder. G goes into it in some detail on the site. Seems like a new builder would be a great time to try some things you've been thinking of tryin', like a double top tube and canti's-- especially if it is a temporary arrangement. I dont think it makes one bike better than the other, just a little different. It does stink that it makes you think less of your bike and I can certainly understand that-- but at the end of the day it is the same great bike it was when you bought it. Would I trade my Bleriot for a double- TT, waterford SH? In a second with no hesitation but that doesn't make me less happy with my bike. If it did I would sell it to fund the SH. The Saluki came with different brakes. So did the Rom. The Atlantis has changed some over the years. Some customs were made by Richard Sachs (drool!), Brakes change, braze ons change, kickstand plates get added, some bikes get a bonus TT, some get a diagon-apillar, some made by maxway, some by toyo, some by waterford-- but they are all Rivs and all great bikes. Cheers, cm -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
I own a 56cm Maxway canti Sam with the 3 spot fork crown and my bike is plenty stiff enough for off road endeavors. I originally had 70x40 knobbies on it and took it on very technical singletrack quite a few times... It never felt anything other than solid. and for the record... I like both fork crowns. (I'd be happy with either) ~Mike~ On Sep 1, 2:12 pm, Peter Pesce petepe...@gmail.com wrote: I really don't know why Riv has to go and make multiple different versions of this bike. Yes, I know the only answer that matters is because Grant wants to but even HE has to expend lots of unnecessary energy explaining to people why one version is, allegedly, as good as the other. Just when he convinces people that Taiwan-made bikes are real Rivendells he goes and has them made by Waterford. He puts different forks and brakes on them, even different forks on the Maxway bikes- Alan at EcoVelo has a 60cm Maxway Sam with cantis and what will, now, forever hence be known as the nice fork; I have a 60cm Maxway Sam with sidepulls and what will forever hence be known as the crappy fork. Maybe I'm just not used to this way of doing business, being a Riv rookie... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
It sometimes happens that a bike model will have changes over the run - the Romulus and Saluki are other examples where there was a change in brake type. The Sam is a little unusual in that it was caught in production issues just as it was ramping up, so there was undoubtedly some scrambling to keep the initial run going, thought IIRC there were posts from Grant talking about the changes as they were happening. I hope you don't think you have a lesser bike for the minor differences. Waterford frames aren't custom either, but like the Maxways are certainly above-average production quality. Both of those forks are nice to my eye, and both have that curve i like so much. I owned a Redwood for a few years; it had a 1-color paint job and plainer lugs than any of the Sams, and it rode as well as any Rambouillet i tried, no regrets. On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Peter Pesce petepe...@gmail.com wrote: I really don't know why Riv has to go and make multiple different versions of this bike. Yes, I know the only answer that matters is because Grant wants to but even HE has to expend lots of unnecessary energy explaining to people why one version is, allegedly, as good as the other. Just when he convinces people that Taiwan-made bikes are real Rivendells he goes and has them made by Waterford. He puts different forks and brakes on them, even different forks on the Maxway bikes- Alan at EcoVelo has a 60cm Maxway Sam with cantis and what will, now, forever hence be known as the nice fork; I have a 60cm Maxway Sam with sidepulls and what will forever hence be known as the crappy fork. Maybe I'm just not used to this way of doing business, being a Riv rookie... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Bill Connell St. Paul, MN -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
I also prefer the fork crown on the double tt model. Although I tend to like sidepulls better than canti's. I also really like the trademark double tt look but sadly I ride smaller size frames and will never be able to own one. On Sep 1, 5:43 pm, Bill Connell bconn...@gmail.com wrote: It sometimes happens that a bike model will have changes over the run - the Romulus and Saluki are other examples where there was a change in brake type. The Sam is a little unusual in that it was caught in production issues just as it was ramping up, so there was undoubtedly some scrambling to keep the initial run going, thought IIRC there were posts from Grant talking about the changes as they were happening. I hope you don't think you have a lesser bike for the minor differences. Waterford frames aren't custom either, but like the Maxways are certainly above-average production quality. Both of those forks are nice to my eye, and both have that curve i like so much. I owned a Redwood for a few years; it had a 1-color paint job and plainer lugs than any of the Sams, and it rode as well as any Rambouillet i tried, no regrets. On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Peter Pesce petepe...@gmail.com wrote: I really don't know why Riv has to go and make multiple different versions of this bike. Yes, I know the only answer that matters is because Grant wants to but even HE has to expend lots of unnecessary energy explaining to people why one version is, allegedly, as good as the other. Just when he convinces people that Taiwan-made bikes are real Rivendells he goes and has them made by Waterford. He puts different forks and brakes on them, even different forks on the Maxway bikes- Alan at EcoVelo has a 60cm Maxway Sam with cantis and what will, now, forever hence be known as the nice fork; I have a 60cm Maxway Sam with sidepulls and what will forever hence be known as the crappy fork. Maybe I'm just not used to this way of doing business, being a Riv rookie... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Bill Connell St. Paul, MN -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
Sorry, I was being intentionally melodramatic with the crappy comment! Poor choice of words. I have been exceedingly happy with my bike, my first Riv, and actually had the option of getting a Waterford frame at the time. I liked the sidepulls and single top tube, so I took the Maxway. No complaints. But, honestly, seeing the two forks side by side I can't see much of a difference in the proportions - obviously an untrained eye. The crown on the Maxway bike does look a bit simplified, maybe a bit chunkier. I guess as I get a little more familiar with how Riv works I'll see that the constant tinkering is a feature, not a bug! On Sep 1, 5:33 pm, cm chrispmur...@hotmail.com wrote: I dont think calling it a crappy fork is fair. I have a Bleriot (obviously Taiwanese) and I dont think there is a crappy thing about it. Riv had supply problems with taiwan and needed another builder. G goes into it in some detail on the site. Seems like a new builder would be a great time to try some things you've been thinking of tryin', like a double top tube and canti's-- especially if it is a temporary arrangement. I dont think it makes one bike better than the other, just a little different. It does stink that it makes you think less of your bike and I can certainly understand that-- but at the end of the day it is the same great bike it was when you bought it. Would I trade my Bleriot for a double- TT, waterford SH? In a second with no hesitation but that doesn't make me less happy with my bike. If it did I would sell it to fund the SH. The Saluki came with different brakes. So did the Rom. The Atlantis has changed some over the years. Some customs were made by Richard Sachs (drool!), Brakes change, braze ons change, kickstand plates get added, some bikes get a bonus TT, some get a diagon-apillar, some made by maxway, some by toyo, some by waterford-- but they are all Rivs and all great bikes. Cheers, cm -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
is a feature, not a bug! you must work with software. haha. We say that all the time at work. I think the Maxway crown is really cool. I just fell in love with the curly crown on mine which is also on the Waterford. The fatter lower fork blades are what I thought was chunky, but even when I said 'ick', I too was being melodramatic. Another bad choice of words. No insult intended. The Hillborne is a great bike in all it's versions. On Sep 1, 2:59 pm, Peter Pesce petepe...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry, I was being intentionally melodramatic with the crappy comment! Poor choice of words. I have been exceedingly happy with my bike, my first Riv, and actually had the option of getting a Waterford frame at the time. I liked the sidepulls and single top tube, so I took the Maxway. No complaints. But, honestly, seeing the two forks side by side I can't see much of a difference in the proportions - obviously an untrained eye. The crown on the Maxway bike does look a bit simplified, maybe a bit chunkier. I guess as I get a little more familiar with how Riv works I'll see that the constant tinkering is a feature, not a bug! On Sep 1, 5:33 pm, cm chrispmur...@hotmail.com wrote: I dont think calling it a crappy fork is fair. I have a Bleriot (obviously Taiwanese) and I dont think there is a crappy thing about it. Riv had supply problems with taiwan and needed another builder. G goes into it in some detail on the site. Seems like a new builder would be a great time to try some things you've been thinking of tryin', like a double top tube and canti's-- especially if it is a temporary arrangement. I dont think it makes one bike better than the other, just a little different. It does stink that it makes you think less of your bike and I can certainly understand that-- but at the end of the day it is the same great bike it was when you bought it. Would I trade my Bleriot for a double- TT, waterford SH? In a second with no hesitation but that doesn't make me less happy with my bike. If it did I would sell it to fund the SH. The Saluki came with different brakes. So did the Rom. The Atlantis has changed some over the years. Some customs were made by Richard Sachs (drool!), Brakes change, braze ons change, kickstand plates get added, some bikes get a bonus TT, some get a diagon-apillar, some made by maxway, some by toyo, some by waterford-- but they are all Rivs and all great bikes. Cheers, cm -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
On Wed, 2010-09-01 at 16:43 -0500, Bill Connell wrote: It sometimes happens that a bike model will have changes over the run - the Romulus and Saluki are other examples where there was a change in brake type. If you're thinking of the Centerpulluki and the Cantiluki versions of the Saluki, those were not running changes over time; the two versions were both available at the introduction of the model. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
Because I know people will ask ... the weight difference between the frames is 8 ounces. For perspective, that is about the difference between a full water bottle and one that is 3/4 full. Now that puts the weight in real terms. I defy anyone to tell the difference in how their bike performs with a full bottle or empty bottle, let alone partially full. Thanks for the info, Bryan. dougP On Sep 1, 11:04 am, Bryan @ Renaissance Bicycles renaissancebicyc...@gmail.com wrote: In the Shop we happen to have two 56cm Hillbornes. One is the Taiwanese made Maxway, the other is the Waterford version from WI. Of course, we couldn't help but take photos:http://www.renaissancebicycles.com/gallery/?album=7gallery=66 Obviously, the double toptuber is the Waterford version. It also includes braze-ons for cantilever brakes, and a rear bridge for the cable stop. The fork crowns are different. Because I know people will ask ... the weight difference between the frames is 8 ounces. For perspective, that is about the difference between a full water bottle and one that is 3/4 full. Both bikes are in our build queue; we'll post pictures when they are complete. Now, let the debate begin ... Bryan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
My first run Hillborne has a different crown than either of those. Think it might have been the same as the Romulus. Otherwise, I do like the one on the Waterford made version. Then again, noticed that the Atlantis forks have changed over the years. While I do like the new ones, and have seen the Waterford made mode in person, wouldn't trade my first run. Kinda like being an early adopter of that bike. It's served me well so far. Will also have to agree, not totally sure I see the point in double top tubes on the 56. I find the bike plenty stiff enough. And this is with a 220 rider on it. (Down from 240 when the bike first arrived last year.) Eric Platt St. Paul, MN On Sep 1, 5:51 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Wed, 2010-09-01 at 16:43 -0500, Bill Connell wrote: It sometimes happens that a bike model will have changes over the run - the Romulus and Saluki are other examples where there was a change in brake type. If you're thinking of the Centerpulluki and the Cantiluki versions of the Saluki, those were not running changes over time; the two versions were both available at the introduction of the model. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
I'm slower with an empty bottle because I'm looking around for someplace to fill up. Stands to reason! :-) Bob On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 2:34 PM, doug peterson dougpn...@cox.net wrote: Because I know people will ask ... the weight difference between the frames is 8 ounces. For perspective, that is about the difference between a full water bottle and one that is 3/4 full. Now that puts the weight in real terms. I defy anyone to tell the difference in how their bike performs with a full bottle or empty bottle, let alone partially full. Thanks for the info, Bryan. dougP On Sep 1, 11:04 am, Bryan @ Renaissance Bicycles renaissancebicyc...@gmail.com wrote: In the Shop we happen to have two 56cm Hillbornes. One is the Taiwanese made Maxway, the other is the Waterford version from WI. Of course, we couldn't help but take photos: http://www.renaissancebicycles.com/gallery/?album=7gallery=66 Obviously, the double toptuber is the Waterford version. It also includes braze-ons for cantilever brakes, and a rear bridge for the cable stop. The fork crowns are different. Because I know people will ask ... the weight difference between the frames is 8 ounces. For perspective, that is about the difference between a full water bottle and one that is 3/4 full. Both bikes are in our build queue; we'll post pictures when they are complete. Now, let the debate begin ... Bryan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Robert Harrison rfharri...@gmail.com statrix.statrix.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
I think it's cool that these various iterations of the Hillborne are out there - keeps it interesting. Mine is a single top tube 60cm Maxway with cantis and the fork shown on the Waterford in Bryan's photos. It might be just a tad flexy for some people, but it feels just right under my 160 lb. I'd love to ride both of Bryan's frames built up with identical components; what a education that would be! a...@ecovelo On Sep 1, 11:04 am, Bryan @ Renaissance Bicycles renaissancebicyc...@gmail.com wrote: In the Shop we happen to have two 56cm Hillbornes. One is the Taiwanese made Maxway, the other is the Waterford version from WI. Of course, we couldn't help but take photos:http://www.renaissancebicycles.com/gallery/?album=7gallery=66 Obviously, the double toptuber is the Waterford version. It also includes braze-ons for cantilever brakes, and a rear bridge for the cable stop. The fork crowns are different. Because I know people will ask ... the weight difference between the frames is 8 ounces. For perspective, that is about the difference between a full water bottle and one that is 3/4 full. Both bikes are in our build queue; we'll post pictures when they are complete. Now, let the debate begin ... Bryan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
Beautiful pictures of two beautiful frames Bryan...thank you. Two or one...I'll take one thanks. Angus On Sep 1, 1:04 pm, Bryan @ Renaissance Bicycles renaissancebicyc...@gmail.com wrote: In the Shop we happen to have two 56cm Hillbornes. One is the Taiwanese made Maxway, the other is the Waterford version from WI. Of course, we couldn't help but take photos:http://www.renaissancebicycles.com/gallery/?album=7gallery=66 Obviously, the double toptuber is the Waterford version. It also includes braze-ons for cantilever brakes, and a rear bridge for the cable stop. The fork crowns are different. Because I know people will ask ... the weight difference between the frames is 8 ounces. For perspective, that is about the difference between a full water bottle and one that is 3/4 full. Both bikes are in our build queue; we'll post pictures when they are complete. Now, let the debate begin ... Bryan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 1 Toptube or 2 -- Comparing the Two Versions of the Hillborne
One more variable: I have a single top tube - 60cm - orange - Waterford with the 3 dot fork...but my three dots didn't get the offset color, they were painted orange. I think this was a very early Waterford with a painting error. Any others out there like this? Oh well. Joel On Sep 1, 8:44 pm, Angus angusle...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Beautiful pictures of two beautiful frames Bryan...thank you. Two or one...I'll take one thanks. Angus On Sep 1, 1:04 pm, Bryan @ Renaissance Bicycles - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
