[RBW] Re: COVID face mask that lets you breathe and doesn't cause glasses to fog?

[Patrick Moore]

I got the Buff neck gaiter yesterday; it won't make breathing any easier,
but it will be a lot easier to wear low and quickly pull up at need. Thanks
again, all.

And, FWIW, in case this information is of use: medical/hygiene scuttlebutt
on the web says that doubling over a thin gaiter considerably improves the
blockage of your sneezes.

Bright orange!

-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Re: COVID face mask that lets you breathe and doesn't cause glasses to fog?

[Joel Stern]

No problem Patrick.  My daughter may or may not have had the virus in
April, before much was known. She is in CA and has Kaiser, they never
tested her, hardly have her any meds just an inhaler. I finally sent a
zpack that I had in the house to her and that seemed to help so maybe it
was just a bronchial thing. Too much misinformation to no information to
really know.

Be safe

On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 1:11 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Thanks for the alert, Joel. No need for a purchase link; I'll continue to
> use the base-model masks and my new (to be delivered today) Buff neck
> gaiter, this one doubled over to prevent sneeze spray. I use masks for
> other people, mostly, and for social courtesy, less to keep myself safe,
> for which I rely on distance and basic sanitation. I may buy one of those
> Cahart masks, though, since they're cheap.
>
> My ex has come down with a bad case of COVID and she's on oxygen (I talked
> to her yesterday; bad case but not critical; she's at home, treating
> herself; she's a **very** good MD) and my daughter has a mild case, so I
> take the disease seriously, FWIW.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 9:05 AM Joel S  wrote:
>
>> Patrick, this is an interesting one.  Washable and reusable at least 55
>> times, maybe more.  Supposedly can kill viruses.  I ordered 3 for the
>> family to try.  Here is info, I can get you a link, they are on sale till
>> end of today.
>>
>> https://www.jpost.com/health-science/israeli-made-mask-eliminates-over-99-percent-of-coronavirus-lab-tests-suggest-644434?utm_source=outbrain_medium=referral=v1-883906e95517af8172df621b3f87de66-00e5c8beb12345f2f8860147721838ab85-mztgmztdgjtdelldgm2tkljumu2wiljzmq2tqljrmu2taobrgfstondgmy
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 3:27:42 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> The video that David posted of Mz Cool stopping by Rivendell was
>>> interesting for various reasons, but one in particular is her way of using
>>> what looks to be a scarf as a COVID mask that can be kept sub-chin while
>>> riding but quickly pulled up in public.
>>>
>>> Has anyone done this? Can he-er-she describe the scarf, how you put it
>>> on, and how you manipulate it?
>>>
>>> https://youtu.be/QcPBZW0G7tE?t=629
>>>
>>> https://youtu.be/QcPBZW0G7tE?t=698
>>>
>>> Anyway, her scarf is much more pleasant to look at than your average
>>> mask; far less of a disfigurement.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>> --
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>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: COVID face mask that lets you breathe and doesn't cause glasses to fog?

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks for the alert, Joel. No need for a purchase link; I'll continue to
use the base-model masks and my new (to be delivered today) Buff neck
gaiter, this one doubled over to prevent sneeze spray. I use masks for
other people, mostly, and for social courtesy, less to keep myself safe,
for which I rely on distance and basic sanitation. I may buy one of those
Cahart masks, though, since they're cheap.

My ex has come down with a bad case of COVID and she's on oxygen (I talked
to her yesterday; bad case but not critical; she's at home, treating
herself; she's a **very** good MD) and my daughter has a mild case, so I
take the disease seriously, FWIW.



On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 9:05 AM Joel S  wrote:

> Patrick, this is an interesting one.  Washable and reusable at least 55
> times, maybe more.  Supposedly can kill viruses.  I ordered 3 for the
> family to try.  Here is info, I can get you a link, they are on sale till
> end of today.
>
> https://www.jpost.com/health-science/israeli-made-mask-eliminates-over-99-percent-of-coronavirus-lab-tests-suggest-644434?utm_source=outbrain_medium=referral=v1-883906e95517af8172df621b3f87de66-00e5c8beb12345f2f8860147721838ab85-mztgmztdgjtdelldgm2tkljumu2wiljzmq2tqljrmu2taobrgfstondgmy
>
> On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 3:27:42 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> The video that David posted of Mz Cool stopping by Rivendell was
>> interesting for various reasons, but one in particular is her way of using
>> what looks to be a scarf as a COVID mask that can be kept sub-chin while
>> riding but quickly pulled up in public.
>>
>> Has anyone done this? Can he-er-she describe the scarf, how you put it
>> on, and how you manipulate it?
>>
>> https://youtu.be/QcPBZW0G7tE?t=629
>>
>> https://youtu.be/QcPBZW0G7tE?t=698
>>
>> Anyway, her scarf is much more pleasant to look at than your average
>> mask; far less of a disfigurement.
>>
>> --
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> --
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> 
> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[RBW] Re: COVID face mask that lets you breathe and doesn't cause glasses to fog?

[Joel S]

Patrick, this is an interesting one.  Washable and reusable at least 55 
times, maybe more.  Supposedly can kill viruses.  I ordered 3 for the 
family to try.  Here is info, I can get you a link, they are on sale till 
end of today.  
https://www.jpost.com/health-science/israeli-made-mask-eliminates-over-99-percent-of-coronavirus-lab-tests-suggest-644434?utm_source=outbrain_medium=referral=v1-883906e95517af8172df621b3f87de66-00e5c8beb12345f2f8860147721838ab85-mztgmztdgjtdelldgm2tkljumu2wiljzmq2tqljrmu2taobrgfstondgmy

On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 3:27:42 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> The video that David posted of Mz Cool stopping by Rivendell was 
> interesting for various reasons, but one in particular is her way of using 
> what looks to be a scarf as a COVID mask that can be kept sub-chin while 
> riding but quickly pulled up in public.
>
> Has anyone done this? Can he-er-she describe the scarf, how you put it on, 
> and how you manipulate it?
>
> https://youtu.be/QcPBZW0G7tE?t=629
>
> https://youtu.be/QcPBZW0G7tE?t=698
>
> Anyway, her scarf is much more pleasant to look at than your average mask; 
> far less of a disfigurement.
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: COVID face mask that lets you breathe and doesn't cause glasses to fog?

[EricP]

This has also been a problem for me. While I now carry a mask when riding, 
it has not been easy to transition myself to wearing one while riding. My 
breathing is heavy enough without. Only because I have a steep (for me) 
climb right off the bat to go anywhere. Have a buff, but for all the 
reasons listed above, won't wear it. I think the best mask I've tried for 
general use has been my Stormy Kromer model. Plus, they are MUSA. Even they 
don't totally stop fogging when it gets cooler outside and my breathing 
rate increases. 

At least this year, I don't plan to do much real winter riding, so it will 
be less of an issue. Although the longer we go without snow on the ground, 
the more I can ride. We'll see what I end up doing.

FWIW, I do not ride with others and try to avoid getting too close (under 
10-12') from others while out riding. Doesn't always happen (passing folks 
on trails). And for those reasons I know I have to start masking.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

On Saturday, November 28, 2020 at 12:58:37 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I wish I'd seen this earlier; more effective than the Buff (as remedy with 
> the Buff, I'll control my sneezing) and cheaper.
>
> Might spot-glue or thread-tack a layer of cotton inside the Buff.
>
> On Sat, Nov 28, 2020 at 9:39 AM Surlyprof  wrote:
>
>> I probably read the same article Philip did.  The synthetic gaiters and 
>> single-layer gaiters pose the problem that Philip mentioned (micro 
>> dispersing sneezes).  I did a little more research and everyone points to 
>> double layered cotton as the best protection.  That prompted a search for 
>> double layered, cotton gaiters for riding and I was thrilled to find that 
>> Carhartt 
>> seemed to excel in this area 
>> .
>>   
>> Not only is it 95% cotton (5% spandex) outside, it's double layer with 100% 
>> cotton on the inside.  It also has the added bonus of a filter pocket!  I 
>> bought two.  This didn't solve the fogging problem but we figured out a 
>> hack that helps.  You could buy something like this 
>> 
>>  
>> but I don't think they'd stay on.  Instead, I've been adding wires to our 
>> face masks.  We bought a spool of 16 gauge stainless wire (for hanging 
>> picture frames) and cut lengths of it, dip the ends in epoxy (to create 
>> soft droplet-like ends).  We can then open a couple of stitches in the edge 
>> seam, slide a wire in and stitch both ends of the wire to keep in place.  
>> That has provided a bendable, machine-washable nose bridge at very little 
>> cost and a little DIY effort.  The only issue I have with the Carhartt 
>> gaiter is that it is one size fits all and, in Carhartt land, people are 
>> big.  The nose bridge helped snug it up and we washed an dried it to shrink 
>> it a little.  May still need to take it in a little.
>>
>> John
>> Niles, CA
>>
>> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 12:29:29 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> I tried bandanas. Perhaps I'm just fussy, but I had a hard time keeping 
>>> them from slipping down. 
>>>
>>> In the event, I ordered a Buff synthetic gaiter on the recommendation of 
>>> someone onlist. Buff has a bewildering plenty of colors and patterns, and I 
>>> fretted about choosing one that will go with all of my outfits. (And that 
>>> doesn't make me look fat.) But I decided, what the hell, let's get one that 
>>> doesn't go with anything, so ordered bright orange. (Well, it will go with 
>>> the bright orange bar tape on my Matthews Road Bike For Dirt. 
>>>
>>> I read the CDC stricture against fleece, but didn't see them frowning 
>>> and shaking their fingers at synthetics knits like the Buffs.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 11:17 PM Philip Williamson <
>>> philip.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 I do the bandanna - Rivendell sells densely woven ones. I have some 
 looser-woven Chinese ones from Etsy I try not to wear in grocery stores, 
 but I feel okay wearing them to ride. Bandannas work great; easy up, easy 
 down, but they do fog my glasses now that the weather is colder. Maybe I 
 should switch to contacts for the winter. 
 I bought a merino buff at the beginning of Teh Covidz, but it was too 
 hot to wear, and I saw a study that showed they’ll actually micro-disperse 
 a sneeze, instead of damping it. Oops.

 Philip
 Santa Rosa, CA

 On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 8:23:20 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks, Chris. Two new possibilities. 

Re: [RBW] Re: COVID face mask that lets you breathe and doesn't cause glasses to fog?

[Patrick Moore]

I wish I'd seen this earlier; more effective than the Buff (as remedy with
the Buff, I'll control my sneezing) and cheaper.

Might spot-glue or thread-tack a layer of cotton inside the Buff.

On Sat, Nov 28, 2020 at 9:39 AM Surlyprof  wrote:

> I probably read the same article Philip did.  The synthetic gaiters and
> single-layer gaiters pose the problem that Philip mentioned (micro
> dispersing sneezes).  I did a little more research and everyone points to
> double layered cotton as the best protection.  That prompted a search for
> double layered, cotton gaiters for riding and I was thrilled to find that 
> Carhartt
> seemed to excel in this area
> .
> Not only is it 95% cotton (5% spandex) outside, it's double layer with 100%
> cotton on the inside.  It also has the added bonus of a filter pocket!  I
> bought two.  This didn't solve the fogging problem but we figured out a
> hack that helps.  You could buy something like this
> 
> but I don't think they'd stay on.  Instead, I've been adding wires to our
> face masks.  We bought a spool of 16 gauge stainless wire (for hanging
> picture frames) and cut lengths of it, dip the ends in epoxy (to create
> soft droplet-like ends).  We can then open a couple of stitches in the edge
> seam, slide a wire in and stitch both ends of the wire to keep in place.
> That has provided a bendable, machine-washable nose bridge at very little
> cost and a little DIY effort.  The only issue I have with the Carhartt
> gaiter is that it is one size fits all and, in Carhartt land, people are
> big.  The nose bridge helped snug it up and we washed an dried it to shrink
> it a little.  May still need to take it in a little.
>
> John
> Niles, CA
>
> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 12:29:29 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> I tried bandanas. Perhaps I'm just fussy, but I had a hard time keeping
>> them from slipping down.
>>
>> In the event, I ordered a Buff synthetic gaiter on the recommendation of
>> someone onlist. Buff has a bewildering plenty of colors and patterns, and I
>> fretted about choosing one that will go with all of my outfits. (And that
>> doesn't make me look fat.) But I decided, what the hell, let's get one that
>> doesn't go with anything, so ordered bright orange. (Well, it will go with
>> the bright orange bar tape on my Matthews Road Bike For Dirt.
>>
>> I read the CDC stricture against fleece, but didn't see them frowning and
>> shaking their fingers at synthetics knits like the Buffs.
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 11:17 PM Philip Williamson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I do the bandanna - Rivendell sells densely woven ones. I have some
>>> looser-woven Chinese ones from Etsy I try not to wear in grocery stores,
>>> but I feel okay wearing them to ride. Bandannas work great; easy up, easy
>>> down, but they do fog my glasses now that the weather is colder. Maybe I
>>> should switch to contacts for the winter.
>>> I bought a merino buff at the beginning of Teh Covidz, but it was too
>>> hot to wear, and I saw a study that showed they’ll actually micro-disperse
>>> a sneeze, instead of damping it. Oops.
>>>
>>> Philip
>>> Santa Rosa, CA
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 8:23:20 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 Thanks, Chris. Two new possibilities. I'll look at the Buff gaiter too.

 I actually bought a poor substitute gaiter at a hardware store for a
 few bucks, but it was so thin that it wouldn't stay up, and probably
 wouldn't keep my sneezes in anyway.

 On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 7:48 AM Christopher Cote <
 christophe...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Actually, on further inspection, I think she's just wearing a bandana
> or scarf. Fold into a triangle, wrap it around your face, over the nose,
> and tie it in the back. Not to tight, with the knot low, like where your
> neck meets your back, and it stays put pretty well in my experience.
>
> Chris
>
> On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 3:27:42 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore
> wrote:
>
>> The video that David posted of Mz Cool stopping by Rivendell was
>> interesting for various reasons, but one in particular is her way of 
>> using
>> what looks to be a scarf as a COVID mask that can be kept sub-chin while
>> riding but quickly pulled up in public.
>>
>> Has anyone done this? Can he-er-she describe the scarf, how you put
>> it on, and how you manipulate it?
>>
>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: COVID face mask that lets you breathe and doesn't cause glasses to fog?

[Surlyprof]

I probably read the same article Philip did.  The synthetic gaiters and 
single-layer gaiters pose the problem that Philip mentioned (micro 
dispersing sneezes).  I did a little more research and everyone points to 
double layered cotton as the best protection.  That prompted a search for 
double layered, cotton gaiters for riding and I was thrilled to find that 
Carhartt 
seemed to excel in this area 
.
  
Not only is it 95% cotton (5% spandex) outside, it's double layer with 100% 
cotton on the inside.  It also has the added bonus of a filter pocket!  I 
bought two.  This didn't solve the fogging problem but we figured out a 
hack that helps.  You could buy something like this 

 
but I don't think they'd stay on.  Instead, I've been adding wires to our 
face masks.  We bought a spool of 16 gauge stainless wire (for hanging 
picture frames) and cut lengths of it, dip the ends in epoxy (to create 
soft droplet-like ends).  We can then open a couple of stitches in the edge 
seam, slide a wire in and stitch both ends of the wire to keep in place.  
That has provided a bendable, machine-washable nose bridge at very little 
cost and a little DIY effort.  The only issue I have with the Carhartt 
gaiter is that it is one size fits all and, in Carhartt land, people are 
big.  The nose bridge helped snug it up and we washed an dried it to shrink 
it a little.  May still need to take it in a little.

John
Niles, CA

On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 12:29:29 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I tried bandanas. Perhaps I'm just fussy, but I had a hard time keeping 
> them from slipping down. 
>
> In the event, I ordered a Buff synthetic gaiter on the recommendation of 
> someone onlist. Buff has a bewildering plenty of colors and patterns, and I 
> fretted about choosing one that will go with all of my outfits. (And that 
> doesn't make me look fat.) But I decided, what the hell, let's get one that 
> doesn't go with anything, so ordered bright orange. (Well, it will go with 
> the bright orange bar tape on my Matthews Road Bike For Dirt. 
>
> I read the CDC stricture against fleece, but didn't see them frowning and 
> shaking their fingers at synthetics knits like the Buffs.
>
> On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 11:17 PM Philip Williamson  
> wrote:
>
>> I do the bandanna - Rivendell sells densely woven ones. I have some 
>> looser-woven Chinese ones from Etsy I try not to wear in grocery stores, 
>> but I feel okay wearing them to ride. Bandannas work great; easy up, easy 
>> down, but they do fog my glasses now that the weather is colder. Maybe I 
>> should switch to contacts for the winter. 
>> I bought a merino buff at the beginning of Teh Covidz, but it was too hot 
>> to wear, and I saw a study that showed they’ll actually micro-disperse a 
>> sneeze, instead of damping it. Oops.
>>
>> Philip
>> Santa Rosa, CA
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 8:23:20 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, Chris. Two new possibilities. I'll look at the Buff gaiter too.
>>>
>>> I actually bought a poor substitute gaiter at a hardware store for a few 
>>> bucks, but it was so thin that it wouldn't stay up, and probably wouldn't 
>>> keep my sneezes in anyway.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 7:48 AM Christopher Cote <
>>> christophe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Actually, on further inspection, I think she's just wearing a bandana 
 or scarf. Fold into a triangle, wrap it around your face, over the nose, 
 and tie it in the back. Not to tight, with the knot low, like where your 
 neck meets your back, and it stays put pretty well in my experience.

 Chris

 On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 3:27:42 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> The video that David posted of Mz Cool stopping by Rivendell was 
> interesting for various reasons, but one in particular is her way of 
> using 
> what looks to be a scarf as a COVID mask that can be kept sub-chin while 
> riding but quickly pulled up in public.
>
> Has anyone done this? Can he-er-she describe the scarf, how you put it 
> on, and how you manipulate it?
>
> https://youtu.be/QcPBZW0G7tE?t=629
>
> https://youtu.be/QcPBZW0G7tE?t=698
>
> Anyway, her scarf is much more pleasant to look at than your average 
> mask; far less of a disfigurement.
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> 

Re: [RBW] Re: COVID face mask that lets you breathe and doesn't cause glasses to fog?

[Patrick Moore]

I tried bandanas. Perhaps I'm just fussy, but I had a hard time keeping
them from slipping down.

In the event, I ordered a Buff synthetic gaiter on the recommendation of
someone onlist. Buff has a bewildering plenty of colors and patterns, and I
fretted about choosing one that will go with all of my outfits. (And that
doesn't make me look fat.) But I decided, what the hell, let's get one that
doesn't go with anything, so ordered bright orange. (Well, it will go with
the bright orange bar tape on my Matthews Road Bike For Dirt.

I read the CDC stricture against fleece, but didn't see them frowning and
shaking their fingers at synthetics knits like the Buffs.

On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 11:17 PM Philip Williamson <
philip.william...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I do the bandanna - Rivendell sells densely woven ones. I have some
> looser-woven Chinese ones from Etsy I try not to wear in grocery stores,
> but I feel okay wearing them to ride. Bandannas work great; easy up, easy
> down, but they do fog my glasses now that the weather is colder. Maybe I
> should switch to contacts for the winter.
> I bought a merino buff at the beginning of Teh Covidz, but it was too hot
> to wear, and I saw a study that showed they’ll actually micro-disperse a
> sneeze, instead of damping it. Oops.
>
> Philip
> Santa Rosa, CA
>
> On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 8:23:20 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Chris. Two new possibilities. I'll look at the Buff gaiter too.
>>
>> I actually bought a poor substitute gaiter at a hardware store for a few
>> bucks, but it was so thin that it wouldn't stay up, and probably wouldn't
>> keep my sneezes in anyway.
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 7:48 AM Christopher Cote 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Actually, on further inspection, I think she's just wearing a bandana or
>>> scarf. Fold into a triangle, wrap it around your face, over the nose, and
>>> tie it in the back. Not to tight, with the knot low, like where your neck
>>> meets your back, and it stays put pretty well in my experience.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 3:27:42 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 The video that David posted of Mz Cool stopping by Rivendell was
 interesting for various reasons, but one in particular is her way of using
 what looks to be a scarf as a COVID mask that can be kept sub-chin while
 riding but quickly pulled up in public.

 Has anyone done this? Can he-er-she describe the scarf, how you put it
 on, and how you manipulate it?

 https://youtu.be/QcPBZW0G7tE?t=629

 https://youtu.be/QcPBZW0G7tE?t=698

 Anyway, her scarf is much more pleasant to look at than your average
 mask; far less of a disfigurement.

 --

 ---
 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: COVID face mask that lets you breathe and doesn't cause glasses to fog?

[Philip Williamson]

I do the bandanna - Rivendell sells densely woven ones. I have some 
looser-woven Chinese ones from Etsy I try not to wear in grocery stores, 
but I feel okay wearing them to ride. Bandannas work great; easy up, easy 
down, but they do fog my glasses now that the weather is colder. Maybe I 
should switch to contacts for the winter. 
I bought a merino buff at the beginning of Teh Covidz, but it was too hot 
to wear, and I saw a study that showed they’ll actually micro-disperse a 
sneeze, instead of damping it. Oops.

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA

On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 8:23:20 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks, Chris. Two new possibilities. I'll look at the Buff gaiter too.
>
> I actually bought a poor substitute gaiter at a hardware store for a few 
> bucks, but it was so thin that it wouldn't stay up, and probably wouldn't 
> keep my sneezes in anyway.
>
> On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 7:48 AM Christopher Cote  
> wrote:
>
>> Actually, on further inspection, I think she's just wearing a bandana or 
>> scarf. Fold into a triangle, wrap it around your face, over the nose, and 
>> tie it in the back. Not to tight, with the knot low, like where your neck 
>> meets your back, and it stays put pretty well in my experience.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 3:27:42 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> The video that David posted of Mz Cool stopping by Rivendell was 
>>> interesting for various reasons, but one in particular is her way of using 
>>> what looks to be a scarf as a COVID mask that can be kept sub-chin while 
>>> riding but quickly pulled up in public.
>>>
>>> Has anyone done this? Can he-er-she describe the scarf, how you put it 
>>> on, and how you manipulate it?
>>>
>>> https://youtu.be/QcPBZW0G7tE?t=629
>>>
>>> https://youtu.be/QcPBZW0G7tE?t=698
>>>
>>> Anyway, her scarf is much more pleasant to look at than your average 
>>> mask; far less of a disfigurement.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: COVID face mask that lets you breathe and doesn't cause glasses to fog?

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Chris. Two new possibilities. I'll look at the Buff gaiter too.

I actually bought a poor substitute gaiter at a hardware store for a few
bucks, but it was so thin that it wouldn't stay up, and probably wouldn't
keep my sneezes in anyway.

On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 7:48 AM Christopher Cote <
christopherjamesc...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Actually, on further inspection, I think she's just wearing a bandana or
> scarf. Fold into a triangle, wrap it around your face, over the nose, and
> tie it in the back. Not to tight, with the knot low, like where your neck
> meets your back, and it stays put pretty well in my experience.
>
> Chris
>
> On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 3:27:42 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> The video that David posted of Mz Cool stopping by Rivendell was
>> interesting for various reasons, but one in particular is her way of using
>> what looks to be a scarf as a COVID mask that can be kept sub-chin while
>> riding but quickly pulled up in public.
>>
>> Has anyone done this? Can he-er-she describe the scarf, how you put it
>> on, and how you manipulate it?
>>
>> https://youtu.be/QcPBZW0G7tE?t=629
>>
>> https://youtu.be/QcPBZW0G7tE?t=698
>>
>> Anyway, her scarf is much more pleasant to look at than your average
>> mask; far less of a disfigurement.
>>
>> --
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> --
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> 
> .
>


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---
Patrick Moore
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[RBW] Re: COVID face mask that lets you breathe and doesn't cause glasses to fog?

[Christopher Cote]

Actually, on further inspection, I think she's just wearing a bandana or 
scarf. Fold into a triangle, wrap it around your face, over the nose, and 
tie it in the back. Not to tight, with the knot low, like where your neck 
meets your back, and it stays put pretty well in my experience.

Chris

On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 3:27:42 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> The video that David posted of Mz Cool stopping by Rivendell was 
> interesting for various reasons, but one in particular is her way of using 
> what looks to be a scarf as a COVID mask that can be kept sub-chin while 
> riding but quickly pulled up in public.
>
> Has anyone done this? Can he-er-she describe the scarf, how you put it on, 
> and how you manipulate it?
>
> https://youtu.be/QcPBZW0G7tE?t=629
>
> https://youtu.be/QcPBZW0G7tE?t=698
>
> Anyway, her scarf is much more pleasant to look at than your average mask; 
> far less of a disfigurement.
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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[RBW] Re: COVID face mask that lets you breathe and doesn't cause glasses to fog?

[Christopher Cote]

Looks like the ubiquitous "Buff" neck tube/gaiter type thing. I find a 
bandana, worn cowboy-style works pretty well and doesn't fog my glasses up 
as badly as the ear-loop cloth masks. No guarantees about effectiveness.

Chris

On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 3:27:42 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> The video that David posted of Mz Cool stopping by Rivendell was 
> interesting for various reasons, but one in particular is her way of using 
> what looks to be a scarf as a COVID mask that can be kept sub-chin while 
> riding but quickly pulled up in public.
>
> Has anyone done this? Can he-er-she describe the scarf, how you put it on, 
> and how you manipulate it?
>
> https://youtu.be/QcPBZW0G7tE?t=629
>
> https://youtu.be/QcPBZW0G7tE?t=698
>
> Anyway, her scarf is much more pleasant to look at than your average mask; 
> far less of a disfigurement.
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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[RBW] Re: COVID face mask that lets you breathe and doesn't cause glasses to fog?

[Patrick Moore]

The video that David posted of Mz Cool stopping by Rivendell was
interesting for various reasons, but one in particular is her way of using
what looks to be a scarf as a COVID mask that can be kept sub-chin while
riding but quickly pulled up in public.

Has anyone done this? Can he-er-she describe the scarf, how you put it on,
and how you manipulate it?

https://youtu.be/QcPBZW0G7tE?t=629

https://youtu.be/QcPBZW0G7tE?t=698

Anyway, her scarf is much more pleasant to look at than your average mask;
far less of a disfigurement.

-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[RBW] Re: COVID face mask that lets you breathe and doesn't cause glasses to fog?

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks for all the comments. I'll make a few more of my own.

I understood from the early official pronouncements (basically many
repeated news stories of health officials' and government officials'
declarations on the matter) that cloth masks are meant to keep your
infection off of others, and that they do little to filter out others
infection from you. I've been acting on the assumption that this is true;
iow, I put on mask for others; to protect myself, I keep my distance from
others, wash hands, etc.

I rode today, mildly, and used my mask more than I have before because of
the number of pedestrians on the bosque routes. My mask (in this case; I
have others) is one shaped to cover the nose, with wire stiffener over
nose, made from 2 layers of thin cloth. When I wear it as designed, that is
close to face and about 1/2" above nose and ~1/2" below chin, each breath,
even when standing still, flattens cloth against nostrils or mouth, and
each breath clouds glasses. My other masks do the same.

On today's ride, I set it as firmly as I could behind ears, then pulled it
down so it was below nose but over mouth: this fixed the clouding, and let
me breath freely during modest exertion, but even a slight increase in
exertion -- sand patch, turn into wind -- had the cloth flattening against
my mouth (again, nose free). I could fix this by jutting my jaw to push
mask away.

Both of the 2 masks with "behind the ear" loop design (the other ties
behind head) tend to disengage from ears when you pull them down; at least
on my head.

Upshot: I will continue to use a mask for others, when in the presence of
others; I will devise some way of keeping the loops behind ears when mask
is pulled down below nose -- probably by attaching elastic to the ear loops
to strap everything behind my head; and I will keep the mask at half-mast
or even below chin when solo, but pull it up quickly when in others'
presence.

I believe there may be good reasons for masks. I am also quite open to the
possibility that they're not worth shit. From what I read, the weight is
equal on both sides of the scale, and there is more than ample evidence of
well-meaning officials causing upheaval in their attempts to preserve the
social order (Nisei internment during WWII, etc.). But I'll give
officialdom the benefit of the doubt; and I will continue to accommodate
others, assuming they will be more at ease if when I am nearby I am in a
mask. Who knows, perhaps others wearing masks is the reason I'm not sick
myself.

The mask question is really very much like the helmet question, but I don't
indulge others' preferences by wearing a helmet unless I ride with a group
that demands them (this is rarely).

On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 3:10 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Can anyone suggest one, preferably one that is easy on/off, or at least
> easy to slip down when solitary and up when in public? I've been using
> basic cloth masks and (1) they're suffocating under any exertion, (2) they
> fog my shades, (3) the ear loops detach easily from your ears, so slipping
> them down often pulls them off.
>
> I am quite prepared to learn that the entire official protocol for
> infection avoidance is bunkum, and I am heartily disposed to believe that
> my political leaders are both inept and corrupt, or at least driven
> principally by self interest, but the situation is serious enough that I am
> willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and wear masks around others,
> especially since some others seem panicky if you don't.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

-- 

---
Patrick Moore
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Re: [RBW] Re: COVID face mask that lets you breathe and doesn't cause glasses to fog?

[Drew Saunders]

Regarding the O2 levels, in this video: https://youtu.be/npXP5wqNzaI
He wears 6 masks and wears a pulse-ox meter. The results of wearing 6 
(count 'em, 6!) surgical masks for 5 minutes:

1: No change in O2 levels
2: His ears really hurt.

I'm about to get surgery (not voluntary, not in a pandemic!), where 
everyone will wear the same masks they wear for all the surgeries they've 
ever done before, that never caused any oxygen problems.

On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 8:10:10 PM UTC-8 Robert Tilley wrote:

> I just saw a news report that had a study showing that masks don’t have 
> any effect on your oxygen levels. That say they feel like they do but the 
> numbers show you are still getting the same oxygen moving around your body 
> as you would without a mask. 
>
> I have a hard time wearing a mask while riding so I wear one pulled down 
> and “deploy” it when the need arises. My mask of choice is the Wald mask 
> since they fit ok and have some nice bikey patterns.
>
> Robert Tilley
> San Diego, CA
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:52 PM, Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA <
> benzo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The thing with masks is that if they're not a bit constrictive, they 
> probably don't work (except for face shields, but who wants to look like a 
> welder with a transparent shield?). That's the nature of filters. Having 
> said that, there's constrictive, and there's *constrictive*. I should say 
> that none are constrictive to the extent claimed by anti-maskers.
>
>
> I find the least constrictive is one that has the largest surface area and 
> that also does the job. Duh! But *how* do you know if it does the job? 
> Given that masks are at least half a prophylactic against transmission to 
> *others*, an easy way of determining efficacy, without specialized tools, 
> is to try blowing out candles that are within a few inches of your face, 
> with the mask on. If you can blow out said candle, the mask isn't effective 
> enough. Stay away from the N95 masks with one-way valves; sure, they're 
> nice for you, but they do not mitigate the dispersion of droplets to others 
> as you exhale.
>
> Anyway, I find buffs, wool ones, double-layer-up, and merely lightly snug 
> around the mouth+nose instead of tight, to be efficacious and least 
> constrictive. In fact, I use that when cycling in cold weather. With the 
> proper eyewear, I don't experience fogging issues when on the move. In 
> addition, you may also want to look into anti-fog treatments, especially as 
> eyewear will fog up even without masks when one suddenly stops, in between 
> exertions.
>
> On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 2:10:42 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Can anyone suggest one, preferably one that is easy on/off, or at least 
>> easy to slip down when solitary and up when in public? I've been using 
>> basic cloth masks and (1) they're suffocating under any exertion, (2) they 
>> fog my shades, (3) the ear loops detach easily from your ears, so slipping 
>> them down often pulls them off.
>>
>> I am quite prepared to learn that the entire official protocol for 
>> infection avoidance is bunkum, and I am heartily disposed to believe that 
>> my political leaders are both inept and corrupt, or at least driven 
>> principally by self interest, but the situation is serious enough that I am 
>> willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and wear masks around others, 
>> especially since some others seem panicky if you don't.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: COVID face mask that lets you breathe and doesn't cause glasses to fog?

[Sky Coulter]

I was wearing my respirator on the bike when the lower mainland (bc) was very 
smokey for a week or so with the northward drift of smoke from west coast 
fires. Then the new west pier caught on fire and added a couple more smoke 
filled days.  The p100 filters did an amazing job of filtering the air. When i 
took my mask off at a light to sip some water, i couldn’t believe how poor the 
air quality was.

Sky in new west

> On Nov 24, 2020, at 8:09 AM, Joel S  wrote:
> 
> 
> I wish they would come out with a list of masks that might help.  There is 
> much controversy.  I wear a mask anywhere others are and just don’t know if 
> they do much good.  I believe they do cause us breathing problems if used for 
> prolonged times.  I have 2 nice fabric masks, one with a pocket that will 
> allow a coffee filter that is supposed to be a good protective layer but 
> seems to make breathing more difficult.  I also have some surgical style 
> masks with no clue if they truly work.  Being retired I can limit my 
> exposure.  
> 
> Question, why wear a mask when riding a bike (or driving a car)? 
>> On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 8:41:06 AM UTC-5 campyo...@me.com wrote:
>> The CDC recommends mask wearing, both to protect you from others and to 
>> protect them from you:
>> 
>> CDC recommends that people wear masks in public settings, like on public and 
>> mass transportation, at events and gatherings, and anywhere they will be 
>> around other people.
>> 
>> Note that the CDC does not know at this time whether face shields are 
>> effective:
>> 
>> https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/about-face-coverings.html
>> 
>> Same page at the CDC web site has advice on choosing a mask. 
>> 
>> –Eric N
>> 
>> 
 On Nov 24, 2020, at 1:25 AM, Sky Coulter  wrote:
 
>>> 
>> 
>>> I haven’t found a simple mask that doesn’t fog my glasses to some degree or 
>>> other. Closely pinching a wire frame along the top to the bridge of your 
>>> nose wolill reduce the fog as long as u have the sides of the mask w a bit 
>>> of a gap for the hot air to escape thru.  
>>> 
>>> I have to wear a half mask respirator for work and find it is pretty good 
>>> for keeping fog away from glasses. I also found it was bearable for 
>>> commuting to and from work (12km w hills each way), but i did have to avoid 
>>> maximal exertion and control my breathing pattern better than i might 
>>> otherwise.
>>> 
>>> We use the 3m 6200 mask c p100 filters (7093): the mask is around twenty 
>>> bucks, the filters around 30-40.
>>> https://www.amazon.ca/3M-Safety-142-6100-Reusable-Respirator/dp/B01HMF7V0M/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?dchild=1=respirator=1606209733=8-5
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sky in new west
 On Nov 23, 2020, at 10:31 PM, Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA 
  wrote:
 
 I’m usually skeptic of simplified news reporting, especially in the 
 presumed context of (rightly) trying to convince the general public that 
 masks aren’t really an impediment to daily routine activities. Regardless, 
 what exertion level did they measure the various oxygen levels at? If one 
 is just riding along, unracer-like, enjoying the scenery, and smelling the 
 flowers, I can believe that. However, if one is trying for a PR up 
 Hamilton or Monte Bello, I’ll need to see the data and experimental setup 
 to be convinced. Actually, I should just borrow my wife’s pulse oximeter 
 and figure out the effects, if any, of masking , at various exertion 
 levels, especially since I’m going exactly nowhere this Thanksgiving.
 
> On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 8:10:10 PM UTC-8 Robert Tilley wrote:
> I just saw a news report that had a study showing that masks don’t have 
> any effect on your oxygen levels. That say they feel like they do but the 
> numbers show you are still getting the same oxygen moving around your 
> body as you would without a mask. 
> 
> I have a hard time wearing a mask while riding so I wear one pulled down 
> and “deploy” it when the need arises. My mask of choice is the Wald mask 
> since they fit ok and have some nice bikey patterns.
> 
> Robert Tilley
> San Diego, CA
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:52 PM, Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>> The thing with masks is that if they're not a bit constrictive, they 
>> probably don't work (except for face shields, but who wants to look like 
>> a welder with a transparent shield?). That's the nature of filters. 
>> Having said that, there's constrictive, and there's constrictive. I 
>> should say that none are constrictive to the extent claimed by 
>> anti-maskers.
> 
>> 
>> I find the least constrictive is one that has the largest surface area 
>> and that also does the job. Duh! But how do you know if it does the job? 
>> Given that masks are at least half a prophylactic against transmission 
>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: COVID face mask that lets you breathe and doesn't cause glasses to fog?

[Joel S]

I wish they would come out with a list of masks that might help.  There is 
much controversy.  I wear a mask anywhere others are and just don’t know if 
they do much good.  I believe they do cause us breathing problems if used 
for prolonged times.  I have 2 nice fabric masks, one with a pocket that 
will allow a coffee filter that is supposed to be a good protective layer 
but seems to make breathing more difficult.  I also have some surgical 
style masks with no clue if they truly work.  Being retired I can limit my 
exposure.  

Question, why wear a mask when riding a bike (or driving a car)? 
On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 8:41:06 AM UTC-5 campyo...@me.com wrote:

> The CDC recommends mask wearing, both to protect you from others and to 
> protect them from you:
>
> CDC recommends that people wear masks in public settings, like on public 
> and mass transportation, at events and gatherings, and anywhere they will 
> be around other people.
>
> Note that the CDC does not know at this time whether face shields are 
> effective:
>
>
> https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/about-face-coverings.html
>
> Same page at the CDC web site has advice on choosing a mask. 
>
> –Eric N
>
>
> On Nov 24, 2020, at 1:25 AM, Sky Coulter  wrote:
>
> 
>
> I haven’t found a simple mask that doesn’t fog my glasses to some degree 
> or other. Closely pinching a wire frame along the top to the bridge of your 
> nose wolill reduce the fog as long as u have the sides of the mask w a bit 
> of a gap for the hot air to escape thru.  
>
> I have to wear a half mask respirator for work and find it is pretty good 
> for keeping fog away from glasses. I also found it was bearable for 
> commuting to and from work (12km w hills each way), but i did have to avoid 
> maximal exertion and control my breathing pattern better than i might 
> otherwise.
>
> We use the 3m 6200 mask c p100 filters (7093): the mask is around twenty 
> bucks, the filters around 30-40.
>
> https://www.amazon.ca/3M-Safety-142-6100-Reusable-Respirator/dp/B01HMF7V0M/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?dchild=1=respirator=1606209733=8-5
>
>
> Sky in new west
>
> On Nov 23, 2020, at 10:31 PM, Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA <
> benzo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I’m usually skeptic of simplified news reporting, especially in the 
> presumed context of (rightly) trying to convince the general public that 
> masks aren’t really an impediment to daily routine activities. Regardless, 
> what 
> exertion level did they measure the various oxygen levels at? If one is 
> just riding along, unracer-like, enjoying the scenery, and smelling the 
> flowers, I can believe that. However, if one is trying for a PR up Hamilton 
> or Monte Bello, I’ll need to see the data and experimental setup to be 
> convinced. Actually, I should just borrow my wife’s pulse oximeter and 
> figure out the effects, if any, of masking , at various exertion levels, 
> especially since I’m going exactly nowhere this Thanksgiving.
>
> On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 8:10:10 PM UTC-8 Robert Tilley wrote:
>
>> I just saw a news report that had a study showing that masks don’t have 
>> any effect on your oxygen levels. That say they feel like they do but the 
>> numbers show you are still getting the same oxygen moving around your body 
>> as you would without a mask. 
>>
>> I have a hard time wearing a mask while riding so I wear one pulled down 
>> and “deploy” it when the need arises. My mask of choice is the Wald mask 
>> since they fit ok and have some nice bikey patterns.
>>
>> Robert Tilley
>> San Diego, CA
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:52 PM, Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA <
>> benzo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The thing with masks is that if they're not a bit constrictive, they 
>> probably don't work (except for face shields, but who wants to look like a 
>> welder with a transparent shield?). That's the nature of filters. Having 
>> said that, there's constrictive, and there's *constrictive*. I should 
>> say that none are constrictive to the extent claimed by anti-maskers.
>>
>>
>> I find the least constrictive is one that has the largest surface area 
>> and that also does the job. Duh! But *how* do you know if it does the 
>> job? Given that masks are at least half a prophylactic against transmission 
>> to *others*, an easy way of determining efficacy, without specialized 
>> tools, is to try blowing out candles that are within a few inches of your 
>> face, with the mask on. If you can blow out said candle, the mask isn't 
>> effective enough. Stay away from the N95 masks with one-way valves; sure, 
>> they're nice for you, but they do not mitigate the dispersion of droplets 
>> to others as you exhale.
>>
>> Anyway, I find buffs, wool ones, double-layer-up, and merely lightly snug 
>> around the mouth+nose instead of tight, to be efficacious and least 
>> constrictive. In fact, I use that when cycling in cold weather. With the 
>> proper eyewear, I don't experience 

Re: [RBW] Re: COVID face mask that lets you breathe and doesn't cause glasses to fog?

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

The CDC recommends mask wearing, both to protect you from others and to protect 
them from you:

CDC recommends that people wear masks in public settings, like on public and 
mass transportation, at events and gatherings, and anywhere they will be around 
other people.

Note that the CDC does not know at this time whether face shields are effective:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/about-face-coverings.html

Same page at the CDC web site has advice on choosing a mask. 

–Eric N


> On Nov 24, 2020, at 1:25 AM, Sky Coulter  wrote:
> 
> 
> I haven’t found a simple mask that doesn’t fog my glasses to some degree or 
> other. Closely pinching a wire frame along the top to the bridge of your nose 
> wolill reduce the fog as long as u have the sides of the mask w a bit of a 
> gap for the hot air to escape thru.  
> 
> I have to wear a half mask respirator for work and find it is pretty good for 
> keeping fog away from glasses. I also found it was bearable for commuting to 
> and from work (12km w hills each way), but i did have to avoid maximal 
> exertion and control my breathing pattern better than i might otherwise.
> 
> We use the 3m 6200 mask c p100 filters (7093): the mask is around twenty 
> bucks, the filters around 30-40.
> https://www.amazon.ca/3M-Safety-142-6100-Reusable-Respirator/dp/B01HMF7V0M/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?dchild=1=respirator=1606209733=8-5
> 
> 
> Sky in new west
>> On Nov 23, 2020, at 10:31 PM, Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I’m usually skeptic of simplified news reporting, especially in the 
>> presumed context of (rightly) trying to convince the general public that 
>> masks aren’t really an impediment to daily routine activities. Regardless, 
>> what exertion level did they measure the various oxygen levels at? If one is 
>> just riding along, unracer-like, enjoying the scenery, and smelling the 
>> flowers, I can believe that. However, if one is trying for a PR up Hamilton 
>> or Monte Bello, I’ll need to see the data and experimental setup to be 
>> convinced. Actually, I should just borrow my wife’s pulse oximeter and 
>> figure out the effects, if any, of masking , at various exertion levels, 
>> especially since I’m going exactly nowhere this Thanksgiving.
>> 
>> On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 8:10:10 PM UTC-8 Robert Tilley wrote:
>>> I just saw a news report that had a study showing that masks don’t have any 
>>> effect on your oxygen levels. That say they feel like they do but the 
>>> numbers show you are still getting the same oxygen moving around your body 
>>> as you would without a mask. 
>>> 
>>> I have a hard time wearing a mask while riding so I wear one pulled down 
>>> and “deploy” it when the need arises. My mask of choice is the Wald mask 
>>> since they fit ok and have some nice bikey patterns.
>>> 
>>> Robert Tilley
>>> San Diego, CA
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:52 PM, Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA 
  wrote:
 
 The thing with masks is that if they're not a bit constrictive, they 
 probably don't work (except for face shields, but who wants to look like a 
 welder with a transparent shield?). That's the nature of filters. Having 
 said that, there's constrictive, and there's constrictive. I should say 
 that none are constrictive to the extent claimed by anti-maskers.
>>> 
 
 I find the least constrictive is one that has the largest surface area and 
 that also does the job. Duh! But how do you know if it does the job? Given 
 that masks are at least half a prophylactic against transmission to 
 others, an easy way of determining efficacy, without specialized tools, is 
 to try blowing out candles that are within a few inches of your face, with 
 the mask on. If you can blow out said candle, the mask isn't effective 
 enough. Stay away from the N95 masks with one-way valves; sure, they're 
 nice for you, but they do not mitigate the dispersion of droplets to 
 others as you exhale.
 
 Anyway, I find buffs, wool ones, double-layer-up, and merely lightly snug 
 around the mouth+nose instead of tight, to be efficacious and least 
 constrictive. In fact, I use that when cycling in cold weather. With the 
 proper eyewear, I don't experience fogging issues when on the move. In 
 addition, you may also want to look into anti-fog treatments, especially 
 as eyewear will fog up even without masks when one suddenly stops, in 
 between exertions.
 
> On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 2:10:42 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>> Can anyone suggest one, preferably one that is easy on/off, or at least 
>> easy to slip down when solitary and up when in public? I've been using 
>> basic cloth masks and (1) they're suffocating under any exertion, (2) 
>> they fog my shades, (3) the ear loops detach easily from your ears, so 
>> slipping them down often pulls them off.
>> 
>> I am 

Re: [RBW] Re: COVID face mask that lets you breathe and doesn't cause glasses to fog?

[Sky Coulter]

I haven’t found a simple mask that doesn’t fog my glasses to some degree or 
other. Closely pinching a wire frame along the top to the bridge of your nose 
wolill reduce the fog as long as u have the sides of the mask w a bit of a gap 
for the hot air to escape thru.  

I have to wear a half mask respirator for work and find it is pretty good for 
keeping fog away from glasses. I also found it was bearable for commuting to 
and from work (12km w hills each way), but i did have to avoid maximal exertion 
and control my breathing pattern better than i might otherwise.

We use the 3m 6200 mask c p100 filters (7093): the mask is around twenty bucks, 
the filters around 30-40.
https://www.amazon.ca/3M-Safety-142-6100-Reusable-Respirator/dp/B01HMF7V0M/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?dchild=1=respirator=1606209733=8-5


Sky in new west
> On Nov 23, 2020, at 10:31 PM, Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA 
>  wrote:
> 
> I’m usually skeptic of simplified news reporting, especially in the presumed 
> context of (rightly) trying to convince the general public that masks aren’t 
> really an impediment to daily routine activities. Regardless, what exertion 
> level did they measure the various oxygen levels at? If one is just riding 
> along, unracer-like, enjoying the scenery, and smelling the flowers, I can 
> believe that. However, if one is trying for a PR up Hamilton or Monte Bello, 
> I’ll need to see the data and experimental setup to be convinced. Actually, I 
> should just borrow my wife’s pulse oximeter and figure out the effects, if 
> any, of masking , at various exertion levels, especially since I’m going 
> exactly nowhere this Thanksgiving.
> 
>> On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 8:10:10 PM UTC-8 Robert Tilley wrote:
>> I just saw a news report that had a study showing that masks don’t have any 
>> effect on your oxygen levels. That say they feel like they do but the 
>> numbers show you are still getting the same oxygen moving around your body 
>> as you would without a mask. 
>> 
>> I have a hard time wearing a mask while riding so I wear one pulled down and 
>> “deploy” it when the need arises. My mask of choice is the Wald mask since 
>> they fit ok and have some nice bikey patterns.
>> 
>> Robert Tilley
>> San Diego, CA
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:52 PM, Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA 
  wrote:
 
>>> The thing with masks is that if they're not a bit constrictive, they 
>>> probably don't work (except for face shields, but who wants to look like a 
>>> welder with a transparent shield?). That's the nature of filters. Having 
>>> said that, there's constrictive, and there's constrictive. I should say 
>>> that none are constrictive to the extent claimed by anti-maskers.
>> 
>>> 
>>> I find the least constrictive is one that has the largest surface area and 
>>> that also does the job. Duh! But how do you know if it does the job? Given 
>>> that masks are at least half a prophylactic against transmission to others, 
>>> an easy way of determining efficacy, without specialized tools, is to try 
>>> blowing out candles that are within a few inches of your face, with the 
>>> mask on. If you can blow out said candle, the mask isn't effective enough. 
>>> Stay away from the N95 masks with one-way valves; sure, they're nice for 
>>> you, but they do not mitigate the dispersion of droplets to others as you 
>>> exhale.
>>> 
>>> Anyway, I find buffs, wool ones, double-layer-up, and merely lightly snug 
>>> around the mouth+nose instead of tight, to be efficacious and least 
>>> constrictive. In fact, I use that when cycling in cold weather. With the 
>>> proper eyewear, I don't experience fogging issues when on the move. In 
>>> addition, you may also want to look into anti-fog treatments, especially as 
>>> eyewear will fog up even without masks when one suddenly stops, in between 
>>> exertions.
>>> 
> On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 2:10:42 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
> Can anyone suggest one, preferably one that is easy on/off, or at least 
> easy to slip down when solitary and up when in public? I've been using 
> basic cloth masks and (1) they're suffocating under any exertion, (2) 
> they fog my shades, (3) the ear loops detach easily from your ears, so 
> slipping them down often pulls them off.
> 
> I am quite prepared to learn that the entire official protocol for 
> infection avoidance is bunkum, and I am heartily disposed to believe that 
> my political leaders are both inept and corrupt, or at least driven 
> principally by self interest, but the situation is serious enough that I 
> am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and wear masks around 
> others, especially since some others seem panicky if you don't.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> -- 
> 
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
> 

Re: [RBW] Re: COVID face mask that lets you breathe and doesn't cause glasses to fog?

[Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA]

I’m usually skeptic of simplified news reporting, especially in the 
presumed context of (rightly) trying to convince the general public that 
masks aren’t really an impediment to daily routine activities. Regardless, what 
exertion level did they measure the various oxygen levels at? If one is 
just riding along, unracer-like, enjoying the scenery, and smelling the 
flowers, I can believe that. However, if one is trying for a PR up Hamilton 
or Monte Bello, I’ll need to see the data and experimental setup to be 
convinced. Actually, I should just borrow my wife’s pulse oximeter and 
figure out the effects, if any, of masking , at various exertion levels, 
especially since I’m going exactly nowhere this Thanksgiving.

On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 8:10:10 PM UTC-8 Robert Tilley wrote:

> I just saw a news report that had a study showing that masks don’t have 
> any effect on your oxygen levels. That say they feel like they do but the 
> numbers show you are still getting the same oxygen moving around your body 
> as you would without a mask. 
>
> I have a hard time wearing a mask while riding so I wear one pulled down 
> and “deploy” it when the need arises. My mask of choice is the Wald mask 
> since they fit ok and have some nice bikey patterns.
>
> Robert Tilley
> San Diego, CA
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:52 PM, Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA <
> benzo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The thing with masks is that if they're not a bit constrictive, they 
> probably don't work (except for face shields, but who wants to look like a 
> welder with a transparent shield?). That's the nature of filters. Having 
> said that, there's constrictive, and there's *constrictive*. I should say 
> that none are constrictive to the extent claimed by anti-maskers.
>
>
> I find the least constrictive is one that has the largest surface area and 
> that also does the job. Duh! But *how* do you know if it does the job? 
> Given that masks are at least half a prophylactic against transmission to 
> *others*, an easy way of determining efficacy, without specialized tools, 
> is to try blowing out candles that are within a few inches of your face, 
> with the mask on. If you can blow out said candle, the mask isn't effective 
> enough. Stay away from the N95 masks with one-way valves; sure, they're 
> nice for you, but they do not mitigate the dispersion of droplets to others 
> as you exhale.
>
> Anyway, I find buffs, wool ones, double-layer-up, and merely lightly snug 
> around the mouth+nose instead of tight, to be efficacious and least 
> constrictive. In fact, I use that when cycling in cold weather. With the 
> proper eyewear, I don't experience fogging issues when on the move. In 
> addition, you may also want to look into anti-fog treatments, especially as 
> eyewear will fog up even without masks when one suddenly stops, in between 
> exertions.
>
> On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 2:10:42 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Can anyone suggest one, preferably one that is easy on/off, or at least 
>> easy to slip down when solitary and up when in public? I've been using 
>> basic cloth masks and (1) they're suffocating under any exertion, (2) they 
>> fog my shades, (3) the ear loops detach easily from your ears, so slipping 
>> them down often pulls them off.
>>
>> I am quite prepared to learn that the entire official protocol for 
>> infection avoidance is bunkum, and I am heartily disposed to believe that 
>> my political leaders are both inept and corrupt, or at least driven 
>> principally by self interest, but the situation is serious enough that I am 
>> willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and wear masks around others, 
>> especially since some others seem panicky if you don't.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: COVID face mask that lets you breathe and doesn't cause glasses to fog?

[rltilley]

I just saw a news report that had a study showing that masks don’t have any 
effect on your oxygen levels. That say they feel like they do but the numbers 
show you are still getting the same oxygen moving around your body as you would 
without a mask. 

I have a hard time wearing a mask while riding so I wear one pulled down and 
“deploy” it when the need arises. My mask of choice is the Wald mask since they 
fit ok and have some nice bikey patterns.

Robert Tilley
San Diego, CA

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:52 PM, Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA 
>  wrote:
> 
> The thing with masks is that if they're not a bit constrictive, they 
> probably don't work (except for face shields, but who wants to look like a 
> welder with a transparent shield?). That's the nature of filters. Having said 
> that, there's constrictive, and there's constrictive. I should say that none 
> are constrictive to the extent claimed by anti-maskers.
> 
> I find the least constrictive is one that has the largest surface area and 
> that also does the job. Duh! But how do you know if it does the job? Given 
> that masks are at least half a prophylactic against transmission to others, 
> an easy way of determining efficacy, without specialized tools, is to try 
> blowing out candles that are within a few inches of your face, with the mask 
> on. If you can blow out said candle, the mask isn't effective enough. Stay 
> away from the N95 masks with one-way valves; sure, they're nice for you, but 
> they do not mitigate the dispersion of droplets to others as you exhale.
> 
> Anyway, I find buffs, wool ones, double-layer-up, and merely lightly snug 
> around the mouth+nose instead of tight, to be efficacious and least 
> constrictive. In fact, I use that when cycling in cold weather. With the 
> proper eyewear, I don't experience fogging issues when on the move. In 
> addition, you may also want to look into anti-fog treatments, especially as 
> eyewear will fog up even without masks when one suddenly stops, in between 
> exertions.
> 
>> On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 2:10:42 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>> Can anyone suggest one, preferably one that is easy on/off, or at least easy 
>> to slip down when solitary and up when in public? I've been using basic 
>> cloth masks and (1) they're suffocating under any exertion, (2) they fog my 
>> shades, (3) the ear loops detach easily from your ears, so slipping them 
>> down often pulls them off.
>> 
>> I am quite prepared to learn that the entire official protocol for infection 
>> avoidance is bunkum, and I am heartily disposed to believe that my political 
>> leaders are both inept and corrupt, or at least driven principally by self 
>> interest, but the situation is serious enough that I am willing to give them 
>> the benefit of the doubt and wear masks around others, especially since some 
>> others seem panicky if you don't.
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
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[RBW] Re: COVID face mask that lets you breathe and doesn't cause glasses to fog?

[Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA]

The thing with masks is that if they're not a bit constrictive, they 
probably don't work (except for face shields, but who wants to look like a 
welder with a transparent shield?). That's the nature of filters. Having 
said that, there's constrictive, and there's *constrictive*. I should say 
that none are constrictive to the extent claimed by anti-maskers.

I find the least constrictive is one that has the largest surface area and 
that also does the job. Duh! But *how* do you know if it does the job? 
Given that masks are at least half a prophylactic against transmission to 
*others*, an easy way of determining efficacy, without specialized tools, 
is to try blowing out candles that are within a few inches of your face, 
with the mask on. If you can blow out said candle, the mask isn't effective 
enough. Stay away from the N95 masks with one-way valves; sure, they're 
nice for you, but they do not mitigate the dispersion of droplets to others 
as you exhale.

Anyway, I find buffs, wool ones, double-layer-up, and merely lightly snug 
around the mouth+nose instead of tight, to be efficacious and least 
constrictive. In fact, I use that when cycling in cold weather. With the 
proper eyewear, I don't experience fogging issues when on the move. In 
addition, you may also want to look into anti-fog treatments, especially as 
eyewear will fog up even without masks when one suddenly stops, in between 
exertions.

On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 2:10:42 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Can anyone suggest one, preferably one that is easy on/off, or at least 
> easy to slip down when solitary and up when in public? I've been using 
> basic cloth masks and (1) they're suffocating under any exertion, (2) they 
> fog my shades, (3) the ear loops detach easily from your ears, so slipping 
> them down often pulls them off.
>
> I am quite prepared to learn that the entire official protocol for 
> infection avoidance is bunkum, and I am heartily disposed to believe that 
> my political leaders are both inept and corrupt, or at least driven 
> principally by self interest, but the situation is serious enough that I am 
> willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and wear masks around others, 
> especially since some others seem panicky if you don't.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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[RBW] Re: COVID face mask that lets you breathe and doesn't cause glasses to fog?

[Collin A]

I use these masks on my commute to work (which I can just telework, but 
whatever) and on longer rides where during nice weekend rides when folks 
are out and about.  Very exuberant colors and patterns, but it helps to add 
some color and fun every now and again.
https://lesleyevers.com/collections/masks  

It breathes well and has a good nose crimp to form to your face. Keeps my 
glasses from fogging up, mostly. Adjustable ear straps as well.

These are the only ones that I have tried that prevent fogging, but are 
difficult to breathe when exercising (or walking the 12 flights of stairs 
to my office when I am at work)
https://www.biliomask.com/shop  

Happy Shopping,
Collin, another day and another protest at the capitol, in Sacramento


On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 2:10:42 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Can anyone suggest one, preferably one that is easy on/off, or at least 
> easy to slip down when solitary and up when in public? I've been using 
> basic cloth masks and (1) they're suffocating under any exertion, (2) they 
> fog my shades, (3) the ear loops detach easily from your ears, so slipping 
> them down often pulls them off.
>
> I am quite prepared to learn that the entire official protocol for 
> infection avoidance is bunkum, and I am heartily disposed to believe that 
> my political leaders are both inept and corrupt, or at least driven 
> principally by self interest, but the situation is serious enough that I am 
> willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and wear masks around others, 
> especially since some others seem panicky if you don't.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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[RBW] Re: COVID face mask that lets you breathe and doesn't cause glasses to fog?

[Brady Smith]

I’ve been wearing disposable surgical masks on my rides to and from work. 
The wire band at the top conforms to my nose well enough to prevent fogging 
and they are easy to pull down on open stretches where there are no other 
people. Not the most sustainable option, but they work better for riding 
than anything else I’ve tried. I really don’t think anyone is likely to 
spread or get COVID-19 from a passing encounter with a cyclist, but I ride 
in NYC where there isn’t a lot of space, and arrivals at my school are 
quite crowded due to complicated entry protocols, so I don’t want to roll 
up without a mask on. 
On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 5:10:42 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Can anyone suggest one, preferably one that is easy on/off, or at least 
> easy to slip down when solitary and up when in public? I've been using 
> basic cloth masks and (1) they're suffocating under any exertion, (2) they 
> fog my shades, (3) the ear loops detach easily from your ears, so slipping 
> them down often pulls them off.
>
> I am quite prepared to learn that the entire official protocol for 
> infection avoidance is bunkum, and I am heartily disposed to believe that 
> my political leaders are both inept and corrupt, or at least driven 
> principally by self interest, but the situation is serious enough that I am 
> willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and wear masks around others, 
> especially since some others seem panicky if you don't.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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[RBW] Re: COVID face mask that lets you breathe and doesn't cause glasses to fog?

[christian poppell]

Hi Patrick,

I've been happy with the masks from BAGGU:

https://baggu.com/collections/reusable-masks/products/fabric-mask-set-loop-twilight-1

These are sewn with panels top and bottom to allow a space in front of your 
mouth that gives more room for conversing. It's about as breathable as any 
other well made mask. I've gone on bike rides for exercise with the mask it 
is tolerable. I think it's better than wearing a Buff because the fabric is 
not pressed directly against my face. 

The top edge of the mask has a wire that can conform to the bridge of your 
nose. This wire does two things: it helps keep the mask from falling down 
and it keeps hot humid air from fogging your glasses. 

Downsides are the colors, sold in packs of three, and they are currently 
out of stock. 

We also have the masks from BAGGU that tie behind the head which are better 
for long term wearing. I tend to prefer the elastic style for easy on/off 
while running errands.

Full disclosure, a friend of ours works at BAGGU. They also make great 
grocery bags that are lightweight and extremely durable.

Christian

Berkeley, CA

On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 2:10:42 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Can anyone suggest one, preferably one that is easy on/off, or at least 
> easy to slip down when solitary and up when in public? I've been using 
> basic cloth masks and (1) they're suffocating under any exertion, (2) they 
> fog my shades, (3) the ear loops detach easily from your ears, so slipping 
> them down often pulls them off.
>
> I am quite prepared to learn that the entire official protocol for 
> infection avoidance is bunkum, and I am heartily disposed to believe that 
> my political leaders are both inept and corrupt, or at least driven 
> principally by self interest, but the situation is serious enough that I am 
> willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and wear masks around others, 
> especially since some others seem panicky if you don't.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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