[RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Brian Campbell]

Where are the cheap ones?

On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 12:01:43 PM UTC-4 Tom Wyland wrote:

> I had the same question about the front derailleur and the silver low-high 
> 38-24 crank.  It's my first build with a FD.  The gist is to get a road 
> double and mess around until it works?  I have no intention of spending $80 
> if a cheap one will work.
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Matthew P]

Neat Rich. Thanks all for sharing.
Perhaps a good use for old sharktoothed outer rings.
Yes I think I've heard of a "ring-in-vise, snap teeth with vise grips, file 
finish" approach.
Not a bad plan B(BG) Patrick
-Matthew

On Sunday, April 11, 2021 at 4:47:47 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> It's fun to make your own bike parts, but just FYI: BB Bash Guard offers 
> nice looking guards in all sizes and shapes and colors for very little 
> money. I saw one just now for $12; I think mine is like that.
>
> https://bbgbashguard.com
>
> My brother has made his own from discarded rings, but he starts by 
> snapping the teeth off with a vise grip or something like that. I should 
> think that easier than sawing.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Patrick Moore]

It's fun to make your own bike parts, but just FYI: BB Bash Guard offers
nice looking guards in all sizes and shapes and colors for very little
money. I saw one just now for $12; I think mine is like that.

https://bbgbashguard.com

My brother has made his own from discarded rings, but he starts by snapping
the teeth off with a vise grip or something like that. I should think that
easier than sawing.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Ian A]

Hacksawing off the teeth and then filing is best. You can always remount it 
on the crank to the bike and have someone turn the crank while you hold the 
file to the ring, creating a makeshift lathe. Using a dremel or 
benchgrinder means potentially breathing in fine aluminum dust, which is 
not a healthy option.

IanA Alberta Canada
On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 4:19:21 PM UTC-6 RichS wrote:

> Hello Matthew,
>
> Not sure if this is the most efficient method to create a DIY guard but so 
> far I'm happy with the effort. Here is a work in progress picture  of the 
> guard. It started life as a 50 tooth Shimano 110bcd ring. My big (now 
> middle) ring has 46 teeth. Following is how the modification went:
>
> 1. Used a hacksaw to remove the teeth without getting too close to the 
> line which would become the outer edge of the guard. This went pretty 
> quickly.
> 2. Next, used an oscillating tool for careful removal of the remaining 
> material while avoiding cutting into the new edge and maintaining an even 
> circumference. Slow process!
> 3. Using fine and coarse files along with coarse emery cloth I was able to 
> achieve a smooth edge. 
> 4. Last step: Steel wool and wet sanding with various grades of emery 
> cloth to get a decent finish.
>
> I don't have a bench grinder or dremel but those would certainly be 
> helpful. If you're game I'd say give it a try. I'll post a picture when I 
> reach the finish line.
>
> Best,
> Rich in ATL
>
> On Sat, Apr 10, 2021 at 1:23 PM Matthew P  wrote:
>
>> Neat Rich! Same here. I'm giving the triple to double conversion a second 
>> thought. I didn't like them before because I thought of them as a crippled 
>> triple. But this thread has changed my mind. The toothless outer ring has 
>> been referred to by multiple names with associated functions: bash guard 
>> and a term implying saves the cuff of your pants. These appeal to me more 
>> than ever, and I  like the idea of the toothless outer ring theoretically 
>> making it near impossible to throw the chain over/off the outermost toothed 
>> ring.
>>
>> So, Rich, a question: did you grind the teeth off a chaniring? Wouldn't 
>> that leave it very short? The one Riv sells seem to be as tall  as the 
>> toothed version. Whats the best DIY?
>>
>> -Matthew
>>
>> On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 9:14:37 AM UTC-7 RichS wrote:
>>
>>> This thread has been of particular interest and help as I have never 
>>> performed a triple to a double with guard conversion. Currently putting the 
>>> finishing touches on a homemade chain guard (a rewarding effort so far). 
>>> The shared experiences here on derailer setup will be invaluable as I work 
>>> through this installation. 
>>>
>>> Thank you to all!
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Rich in ATL
>>> On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 3:45:46 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 Ben, when you say "stuck" is the chain jamming and stopping the cranks, 
 or is it falling between the rings? If it's just a problem of the chain 
 not 
 moving over far enough to hit the granny, you may be able to adjust the 
 indexing (or reposition the cable in the fixing bolt) to make that shift 
 more solid against the chain. This is hard to explain in word pictures but 
 imagine a friction shift where you kept pushing down on the left bar-end 
 until the chain made it over to the small ring. Her shifter needs to slap 
 that fd cage over hard/far enough to complete the shift. 


 On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 12:31:46 PM UTC-7 Ben Miller wrote:

> Thanks Joe, 
>
> I think I'll try the chain first and see if that fixes it. Hopefully 
> it will, since my GF is not terribly interested in barcons or DT shifters 
> (it actually had barcons originally and I replaced those at her request 
> with the R9).
>
> Ben
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 1:59:23 PM UTC-7 Ed Carolipio wrote:
>
>> I suggest using an FD for a road triple or a mountain triple (instead 
>> of a road double) with the 38-24 cranks as those are just the middle and 
>> inner chainrings the FD expects in a triple. The 105 is designed for a 
>> very 
>> large outer ring (around 50-ish) in a compact double crankset (43.5mm 
>> chainline).
>>
>> Shimano CX-70 is a popular choice - as Bill points out - and it's 
>> designed around a 46-30 compact crankset. The new GRX FD would probably 
>> work as well since that is designed for a 46-29 compact crankset, though 
>> I 
>> don't have direct experience with it.
>>
>> I like to run a mountain triple (the venerable Shimano Deore M-591) 
>> with the 38-24 as well the 34-24 (low-low) and the 42-26 (Sugino XD600 
>> with 
>> a chainguard as outer ring) from Riv. I have also used a Shimano Sora 
>> FD-3030 with good success:
>>
>>
>> https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/sora-r3000/FD-R3030-B.html
>>  
>> --Ed C.
>>
>> On 

Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[R Shannon]

Hello Matthew,

Not sure if this is the most efficient method to create a DIY guard but so
far I'm happy with the effort. Here is a work in progress picture  of the
guard. It started life as a 50 tooth Shimano 110bcd ring. My big (now
middle) ring has 46 teeth. Following is how the modification went:

1. Used a hacksaw to remove the teeth without getting too close to the line
which would become the outer edge of the guard. This went pretty quickly.
2. Next, used an oscillating tool for careful removal of the remaining
material while avoiding cutting into the new edge and maintaining an even
circumference. Slow process!
3. Using fine and coarse files along with coarse emery cloth I was able to
achieve a smooth edge.
4. Last step: Steel wool and wet sanding with various grades of emery cloth
to get a decent finish.

I don't have a bench grinder or dremel but those would certainly be
helpful. If you're game I'd say give it a try. I'll post a picture when I
reach the finish line.

Best,
Rich in ATL

On Sat, Apr 10, 2021 at 1:23 PM Matthew P 
wrote:

> Neat Rich! Same here. I'm giving the triple to double conversion a second
> thought. I didn't like them before because I thought of them as a crippled
> triple. But this thread has changed my mind. The toothless outer ring has
> been referred to by multiple names with associated functions: bash guard
> and a term implying saves the cuff of your pants. These appeal to me more
> than ever, and I  like the idea of the toothless outer ring theoretically
> making it near impossible to throw the chain over/off the outermost toothed
> ring.
>
> So, Rich, a question: did you grind the teeth off a chaniring? Wouldn't
> that leave it very short? The one Riv sells seem to be as tall  as the
> toothed version. Whats the best DIY?
>
> -Matthew
>
> On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 9:14:37 AM UTC-7 RichS wrote:
>
>> This thread has been of particular interest and help as I have never
>> performed a triple to a double with guard conversion. Currently putting the
>> finishing touches on a homemade chain guard (a rewarding effort so far).
>> The shared experiences here on derailer setup will be invaluable as I work
>> through this installation.
>>
>> Thank you to all!
>>
>> Best,
>> Rich in ATL
>> On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 3:45:46 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Ben, when you say "stuck" is the chain jamming and stopping the cranks,
>>> or is it falling between the rings? If it's just a problem of the chain not
>>> moving over far enough to hit the granny, you may be able to adjust the
>>> indexing (or reposition the cable in the fixing bolt) to make that shift
>>> more solid against the chain. This is hard to explain in word pictures but
>>> imagine a friction shift where you kept pushing down on the left bar-end
>>> until the chain made it over to the small ring. Her shifter needs to slap
>>> that fd cage over hard/far enough to complete the shift.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 12:31:46 PM UTC-7 Ben Miller wrote:
>>>
 Thanks Joe,

 I think I'll try the chain first and see if that fixes it. Hopefully it
 will, since my GF is not terribly interested in barcons or DT shifters (it
 actually had barcons originally and I replaced those at her request with
 the R9).

 Ben
 On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 1:59:23 PM UTC-7 Ed Carolipio wrote:

> I suggest using an FD for a road triple or a mountain triple (instead
> of a road double) with the 38-24 cranks as those are just the middle and
> inner chainrings the FD expects in a triple. The 105 is designed for a 
> very
> large outer ring (around 50-ish) in a compact double crankset (43.5mm
> chainline).
>
> Shimano CX-70 is a popular choice - as Bill points out - and it's
> designed around a 46-30 compact crankset. The new GRX FD would probably
> work as well since that is designed for a 46-29 compact crankset, though I
> don't have direct experience with it.
>
> I like to run a mountain triple (the venerable Shimano Deore M-591)
> with the 38-24 as well the 34-24 (low-low) and the 42-26 (Sugino XD600 
> with
> a chainguard as outer ring) from Riv. I have also used a Shimano Sora
> FD-3030 with good success:
>
>
> https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/sora-r3000/FD-R3030-B.html
>
> --Ed C.
>
> On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 9:26:47 PM UTC-7 Erik wrote:
>
>> I'm working on putting together my shiny new gold Sam H that I picked
>> up from the Rivendell shop today.  Everything was coming together
>> beautifully, until I went to install the front derailleur. It's a Shimano
>> 105-5700 for a 2x set up.  I'm running a Silver Wide/Low double with a 
>> 38 /
>> 24.  The cage on the derailed is too long to set it up with the correct
>> spacing between the large chainring / guard and the cage.  It ends up
>> hitting the chain stay when I shift.
>>

[RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Matthew P]

Neat Rich! Same here. I'm giving the triple to double conversion a second 
thought. I didn't like them before because I thought of them as a crippled 
triple. But this thread has changed my mind. The toothless outer ring has 
been referred to by multiple names with associated functions: bash guard 
and a term implying saves the cuff of your pants. These appeal to me more 
than ever, and I  like the idea of the toothless outer ring theoretically 
making it near impossible to throw the chain over/off the outermost toothed 
ring.

So, Rich, a question: did you grind the teeth off a chaniring? Wouldn't 
that leave it very short? The one Riv sells seem to be as tall  as the 
toothed version. Whats the best DIY?

-Matthew

On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 9:14:37 AM UTC-7 RichS wrote:

> This thread has been of particular interest and help as I have never 
> performed a triple to a double with guard conversion. Currently putting the 
> finishing touches on a homemade chain guard (a rewarding effort so far). 
> The shared experiences here on derailer setup will be invaluable as I work 
> through this installation. 
>
> Thank you to all!
>
> Best,
> Rich in ATL
> On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 3:45:46 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Ben, when you say "stuck" is the chain jamming and stopping the cranks, 
>> or is it falling between the rings? If it's just a problem of the chain not 
>> moving over far enough to hit the granny, you may be able to adjust the 
>> indexing (or reposition the cable in the fixing bolt) to make that shift 
>> more solid against the chain. This is hard to explain in word pictures but 
>> imagine a friction shift where you kept pushing down on the left bar-end 
>> until the chain made it over to the small ring. Her shifter needs to slap 
>> that fd cage over hard/far enough to complete the shift. 
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 12:31:46 PM UTC-7 Ben Miller wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Joe, 
>>>
>>> I think I'll try the chain first and see if that fixes it. Hopefully it 
>>> will, since my GF is not terribly interested in barcons or DT shifters (it 
>>> actually had barcons originally and I replaced those at her request with 
>>> the R9).
>>>
>>> Ben
>>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 1:59:23 PM UTC-7 Ed Carolipio wrote:
>>>
 I suggest using an FD for a road triple or a mountain triple (instead 
 of a road double) with the 38-24 cranks as those are just the middle and 
 inner chainrings the FD expects in a triple. The 105 is designed for a 
 very 
 large outer ring (around 50-ish) in a compact double crankset (43.5mm 
 chainline).

 Shimano CX-70 is a popular choice - as Bill points out - and it's 
 designed around a 46-30 compact crankset. The new GRX FD would probably 
 work as well since that is designed for a 46-29 compact crankset, though I 
 don't have direct experience with it.

 I like to run a mountain triple (the venerable Shimano Deore M-591) 
 with the 38-24 as well the 34-24 (low-low) and the 42-26 (Sugino XD600 
 with 
 a chainguard as outer ring) from Riv. I have also used a Shimano Sora 
 FD-3030 with good success:


 https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/sora-r3000/FD-R3030-B.html
  
 --Ed C.

 On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 9:26:47 PM UTC-7 Erik wrote:

> I'm working on putting together my shiny new gold Sam H that I picked 
> up from the Rivendell shop today.  Everything was coming together 
> beautifully, until I went to install the front derailleur. It's a Shimano 
> 105-5700 for a 2x set up.  I'm running a Silver Wide/Low double with a 38 
> / 
> 24.  The cage on the derailed is too long to set it up with the correct 
> spacing between the large chainring / guard and the cage.  It ends up 
> hitting the chain stay when I shift.  
>
> Does anyone else on here have a similar set up with a wide / low 
> double?  If so, what front derailleur do you use?  For the life of me, I 
> can't figure out a suitable replacement for the 105 and am dreading 
> trying 
> to find one for sale anywhere.
>
> Any thoughts or advice?
>


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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[RichS]

This thread has been of particular interest and help as I have never 
performed a triple to a double with guard conversion. Currently putting the 
finishing touches on a homemade chain guard (a rewarding effort so far). 
The shared experiences here on derailer setup will be invaluable as I work 
through this installation. 

Thank you to all!

Best,
Rich in ATL
On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 3:45:46 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Ben, when you say "stuck" is the chain jamming and stopping the cranks, or 
> is it falling between the rings? If it's just a problem of the chain not 
> moving over far enough to hit the granny, you may be able to adjust the 
> indexing (or reposition the cable in the fixing bolt) to make that shift 
> more solid against the chain. This is hard to explain in word pictures but 
> imagine a friction shift where you kept pushing down on the left bar-end 
> until the chain made it over to the small ring. Her shifter needs to slap 
> that fd cage over hard/far enough to complete the shift. 
>
>
> On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 12:31:46 PM UTC-7 Ben Miller wrote:
>
>> Thanks Joe, 
>>
>> I think I'll try the chain first and see if that fixes it. Hopefully it 
>> will, since my GF is not terribly interested in barcons or DT shifters (it 
>> actually had barcons originally and I replaced those at her request with 
>> the R9).
>>
>> Ben
>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 1:59:23 PM UTC-7 Ed Carolipio wrote:
>>
>>> I suggest using an FD for a road triple or a mountain triple (instead of 
>>> a road double) with the 38-24 cranks as those are just the middle and inner 
>>> chainrings the FD expects in a triple. The 105 is designed for a very large 
>>> outer ring (around 50-ish) in a compact double crankset (43.5mm chainline).
>>>
>>> Shimano CX-70 is a popular choice - as Bill points out - and it's 
>>> designed around a 46-30 compact crankset. The new GRX FD would probably 
>>> work as well since that is designed for a 46-29 compact crankset, though I 
>>> don't have direct experience with it.
>>>
>>> I like to run a mountain triple (the venerable Shimano Deore M-591) with 
>>> the 38-24 as well the 34-24 (low-low) and the 42-26 (Sugino XD600 with a 
>>> chainguard as outer ring) from Riv. I have also used a Shimano Sora FD-3030 
>>> with good success:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/sora-r3000/FD-R3030-B.html
>>>  
>>> --Ed C.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 9:26:47 PM UTC-7 Erik wrote:
>>>
 I'm working on putting together my shiny new gold Sam H that I picked 
 up from the Rivendell shop today.  Everything was coming together 
 beautifully, until I went to install the front derailleur. It's a Shimano 
 105-5700 for a 2x set up.  I'm running a Silver Wide/Low double with a 38 
 / 
 24.  The cage on the derailed is too long to set it up with the correct 
 spacing between the large chainring / guard and the cage.  It ends up 
 hitting the chain stay when I shift.  

 Does anyone else on here have a similar set up with a wide / low 
 double?  If so, what front derailleur do you use?  For the life of me, I 
 can't figure out a suitable replacement for the 105 and am dreading trying 
 to find one for sale anywhere.

 Any thoughts or advice?

>>>

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Joe Bernard]

Ben, when you say "stuck" is the chain jamming and stopping the cranks, or 
is it falling between the rings? If it's just a problem of the chain not 
moving over far enough to hit the granny, you may be able to adjust the 
indexing (or reposition the cable in the fixing bolt) to make that shift 
more solid against the chain. This is hard to explain in word pictures but 
imagine a friction shift where you kept pushing down on the left bar-end 
until the chain made it over to the small ring. Her shifter needs to slap 
that fd cage over hard/far enough to complete the shift. 


On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 12:31:46 PM UTC-7 Ben Miller wrote:

> Thanks Joe, 
>
> I think I'll try the chain first and see if that fixes it. Hopefully it 
> will, since my GF is not terribly interested in barcons or DT shifters (it 
> actually had barcons originally and I replaced those at her request with 
> the R9).
>
> Ben
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 1:59:23 PM UTC-7 Ed Carolipio wrote:
>
>> I suggest using an FD for a road triple or a mountain triple (instead of 
>> a road double) with the 38-24 cranks as those are just the middle and inner 
>> chainrings the FD expects in a triple. The 105 is designed for a very large 
>> outer ring (around 50-ish) in a compact double crankset (43.5mm chainline).
>>
>> Shimano CX-70 is a popular choice - as Bill points out - and it's 
>> designed around a 46-30 compact crankset. The new GRX FD would probably 
>> work as well since that is designed for a 46-29 compact crankset, though I 
>> don't have direct experience with it.
>>
>> I like to run a mountain triple (the venerable Shimano Deore M-591) with 
>> the 38-24 as well the 34-24 (low-low) and the 42-26 (Sugino XD600 with a 
>> chainguard as outer ring) from Riv. I have also used a Shimano Sora FD-3030 
>> with good success:
>>
>>
>> https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/sora-r3000/FD-R3030-B.html
>>  
>> --Ed C.
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 9:26:47 PM UTC-7 Erik wrote:
>>
>>> I'm working on putting together my shiny new gold Sam H that I picked up 
>>> from the Rivendell shop today.  Everything was coming together beautifully, 
>>> until I went to install the front derailleur. It's a Shimano 105-5700 for a 
>>> 2x set up.  I'm running a Silver Wide/Low double with a 38 / 24.  The cage 
>>> on the derailed is too long to set it up with the correct spacing between 
>>> the large chainring / guard and the cage.  It ends up hitting the chain 
>>> stay when I shift.  
>>>
>>> Does anyone else on here have a similar set up with a wide / low double? 
>>>  If so, what front derailleur do you use?  For the life of me, I can't 
>>> figure out a suitable replacement for the 105 and am dreading trying to 
>>> find one for sale anywhere.
>>>
>>> Any thoughts or advice?
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Ben Miller]

Thanks Joe, 

I think I'll try the chain first and see if that fixes it. Hopefully it 
will, since my GF is not terribly interested in barcons or DT shifters (it 
actually had barcons originally and I replaced those at her request with 
the R9).

Ben
On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 1:59:23 PM UTC-7 Ed Carolipio wrote:

> I suggest using an FD for a road triple or a mountain triple (instead of a 
> road double) with the 38-24 cranks as those are just the middle and inner 
> chainrings the FD expects in a triple. The 105 is designed for a very large 
> outer ring (around 50-ish) in a compact double crankset (43.5mm chainline).
>
> Shimano CX-70 is a popular choice - as Bill points out - and it's designed 
> around a 46-30 compact crankset. The new GRX FD would probably work as well 
> since that is designed for a 46-29 compact crankset, though I don't have 
> direct experience with it.
>
> I like to run a mountain triple (the venerable Shimano Deore M-591) with 
> the 38-24 as well the 34-24 (low-low) and the 42-26 (Sugino XD600 with a 
> chainguard as outer ring) from Riv. I have also used a Shimano Sora FD-3030 
> with good success:
>
> https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/sora-r3000/FD-R3030-B.html
>  
> --Ed C.
>
> On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 9:26:47 PM UTC-7 Erik wrote:
>
>> I'm working on putting together my shiny new gold Sam H that I picked up 
>> from the Rivendell shop today.  Everything was coming together beautifully, 
>> until I went to install the front derailleur. It's a Shimano 105-5700 for a 
>> 2x set up.  I'm running a Silver Wide/Low double with a 38 / 24.  The cage 
>> on the derailed is too long to set it up with the correct spacing between 
>> the large chainring / guard and the cage.  It ends up hitting the chain 
>> stay when I shift.  
>>
>> Does anyone else on here have a similar set up with a wide / low double? 
>>  If so, what front derailleur do you use?  For the life of me, I can't 
>> figure out a suitable replacement for the 105 and am dreading trying to 
>> find one for sale anywhere.
>>
>> Any thoughts or advice?
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Ed Carolipio]

I suggest using an FD for a road triple or a mountain triple (instead of a 
road double) with the 38-24 cranks as those are just the middle and inner 
chainrings the FD expects in a triple. The 105 is designed for a very large 
outer ring (around 50-ish) in a compact double crankset (43.5mm chainline).

Shimano CX-70 is a popular choice - as Bill points out - and it's designed 
around a 46-30 compact crankset. The new GRX FD would probably work as well 
since that is designed for a 46-29 compact crankset, though I don't have 
direct experience with it.

I like to run a mountain triple (the venerable Shimano Deore M-591) with 
the 38-24 as well the 34-24 (low-low) and the 42-26 (Sugino XD600 with a 
chainguard as outer ring) from Riv. I have also used a Shimano Sora FD-3030 
with good success:

https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/sora-r3000/FD-R3030-B.html
 
--Ed C.

On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 9:26:47 PM UTC-7 Erik wrote:

> I'm working on putting together my shiny new gold Sam H that I picked up 
> from the Rivendell shop today.  Everything was coming together beautifully, 
> until I went to install the front derailleur. It's a Shimano 105-5700 for a 
> 2x set up.  I'm running a Silver Wide/Low double with a 38 / 24.  The cage 
> on the derailed is too long to set it up with the correct spacing between 
> the large chainring / guard and the cage.  It ends up hitting the chain 
> stay when I shift.  
>
> Does anyone else on here have a similar set up with a wide / low double? 
>  If so, what front derailleur do you use?  For the life of me, I can't 
> figure out a suitable replacement for the 105 and am dreading trying to 
> find one for sale anywhere.
>
> Any thoughts or advice?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Joe Bernard]

That could be the problem, or the chain is indeed too old. I think you 
would need to ride it yourself to sort it out, but any indexing not 
specifically designed for its groups chainrings is always a struggle. She'd 
probably be better off with a friction thumbshifter or bar-end (depending 
on bars) so she has all the control of the shift. 


On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 10:50:36 AM UTC-7 Ben Miller wrote:

> I've not ridden it, just shifted it in the bike stand, where it seems to 
> shift fine. On the bike stand it is obviously not under load, which is an 
> important point since it seems the chain is always getting stuck when she 
> is shifting under power. 
>
> The shifter is a Microshift R9, which is indexed. But the downshift simply 
> releases all the tension, (returning the FD to the lowest possible 
> position). I guess maybe that could be an issue since maybe the abrupt 
> action is too violent compared to a smooth human actuated downshift?
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 10:36:00 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Have you ridden the GF's bike to see what's going on with the shifting? 
>> Is she using a friction shifter or index? If index, it may not work with 
>> what crank. 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 10:13:18 AM UTC-7 Ben Miller wrote:
>>
>>> I have a converted Sugino hi/low a la Grant-style with a bash-guard in 
>>> place of the outer ring. I briefly had it on one of my bikes, where it 
>>> worked fine, but just recently took it off and replaced my GF's triple with 
>>> it. On that drive train, it will frequently get stuck between the hi-low 
>>> chainrings while she is downshifting. The chainrings are very new. The 
>>> chain on GF's bike isn't new, but checking for stretch with a chain tool, 
>>> it isn't overly worn. I think (?) i've installed the chainrings correctly, 
>>> but maybe not?? Any thoughts, as I'm confused by what's happening. My first 
>>> thought is just to replace the chain (even though it appears to have some 
>>> life left). Oh and on the original bike (mine) it was a 9 spd with a 10 spd 
>>> chain. This bike (GF's) is a 9 spd with a 9 spd chain. Curious that it 
>>> would work better with a 10 spd chain?
>>>
>>> On a related note, Patrick Moore said: "IME, the bigger hassle is 
>>> getting the best lateral angle for the cage." Totally agree. Any 
>>> shortcuts/tips to this?
>>>
>>> Ben
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 1:57:36 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 I had to cut off the stop only because I perversely insisted on using 
 an 8 or 9 speed-era road front der with a much later and 2-piece mountain 
 bike triple.

 Without the stop, the derailleur will kick the chain over the bash 
 guard and off the crank entirely; the reason is that the derailleur has to 
 be positioned high enough (*just* high enough) for the outer cage to 
 clear the bash guard, otherwise it won't move outward enough to shift the 
 chain onto the "middle" ring. Note that my bash guard is the equivalent of 
 a 44 t ring, IIRC; ie, not much bigger that the 42 now in "middle" 
 position.

 The matching curves is purely fortuitous.

 On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:31 PM Matthew P  
 wrote:

> Patrick that looks great. 
> Nice coupling of the two arcs of the toothless outer ring/guard and 
> the fd cage.
> Did you really have to hack off the stop, as in, backing out or 
> removing altogether the limit screw wasn't enough? I believe you 
> regardless.
>
> I'm slowly grasping a few things:
> 1. the fd has to clear the toothless outer ring, which probably places 
> it a little high with respect to the outermost ring that has teeth
>   1.a. when people say "mount the FD high" is it high with respect 
> to that ring (middle in the triple) or high wrt the toothless outer (aka 
> really high for the middle ring)?
> 2. I bet that guard/toothless-ring also works great as a chain stop. 
> pretty hard to throw the chain off your biggest ring when you have one of 
> those, no?
> But if the chain never comes off I don't get to do my current favorite 
> bike trick: put the chain back on just using the fd (and pedalling, of 
> course)
>
> - Matthew 
> "I passed on the bash guard triple but am liking them more" and 
> "i can always throw it off the inner ring for fun" and 
> "but I can barely get the chain there in the first place right now" and
> "would like to see this ugly-functional fd" and
> "doesn't yet comprehend long (road?) vs. short (mtb?) fd's"
> P



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Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Ben Miller]

I've not ridden it, just shifted it in the bike stand, where it seems to 
shift fine. On the bike stand it is obviously not under load, which is an 
important point since it seems the chain is always getting stuck when she 
is shifting under power. 

The shifter is a Microshift R9, which is indexed. But the downshift simply 
releases all the tension, (returning the FD to the lowest possible 
position). I guess maybe that could be an issue since maybe the abrupt 
action is too violent compared to a smooth human actuated downshift?

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 10:36:00 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Have you ridden the GF's bike to see what's going on with the shifting? Is 
> she using a friction shifter or index? If index, it may not work with what 
> crank. 
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 10:13:18 AM UTC-7 Ben Miller wrote:
>
>> I have a converted Sugino hi/low a la Grant-style with a bash-guard in 
>> place of the outer ring. I briefly had it on one of my bikes, where it 
>> worked fine, but just recently took it off and replaced my GF's triple with 
>> it. On that drive train, it will frequently get stuck between the hi-low 
>> chainrings while she is downshifting. The chainrings are very new. The 
>> chain on GF's bike isn't new, but checking for stretch with a chain tool, 
>> it isn't overly worn. I think (?) i've installed the chainrings correctly, 
>> but maybe not?? Any thoughts, as I'm confused by what's happening. My first 
>> thought is just to replace the chain (even though it appears to have some 
>> life left). Oh and on the original bike (mine) it was a 9 spd with a 10 spd 
>> chain. This bike (GF's) is a 9 spd with a 9 spd chain. Curious that it 
>> would work better with a 10 spd chain?
>>
>> On a related note, Patrick Moore said: "IME, the bigger hassle is getting 
>> the best lateral angle for the cage." Totally agree. Any shortcuts/tips to 
>> this?
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 1:57:36 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> I had to cut off the stop only because I perversely insisted on using an 
>>> 8 or 9 speed-era road front der with a much later and 2-piece mountain bike 
>>> triple.
>>>
>>> Without the stop, the derailleur will kick the chain over the bash guard 
>>> and off the crank entirely; the reason is that the derailleur has to be 
>>> positioned high enough (*just* high enough) for the outer cage to clear 
>>> the bash guard, otherwise it won't move outward enough to shift the chain 
>>> onto the "middle" ring. Note that my bash guard is the equivalent of a 44 t 
>>> ring, IIRC; ie, not much bigger that the 42 now in "middle" position.
>>>
>>> The matching curves is purely fortuitous.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:31 PM Matthew P  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Patrick that looks great. 
 Nice coupling of the two arcs of the toothless outer ring/guard and the 
 fd cage.
 Did you really have to hack off the stop, as in, backing out or 
 removing altogether the limit screw wasn't enough? I believe you 
 regardless.

 I'm slowly grasping a few things:
 1. the fd has to clear the toothless outer ring, which probably places 
 it a little high with respect to the outermost ring that has teeth
   1.a. when people say "mount the FD high" is it high with respect 
 to that ring (middle in the triple) or high wrt the toothless outer (aka 
 really high for the middle ring)?
 2. I bet that guard/toothless-ring also works great as a chain stop. 
 pretty hard to throw the chain off your biggest ring when you have one of 
 those, no?
 But if the chain never comes off I don't get to do my current favorite 
 bike trick: put the chain back on just using the fd (and pedalling, of 
 course)

 - Matthew 
 "I passed on the bash guard triple but am liking them more" and 
 "i can always throw it off the inner ring for fun" and 
 "but I can barely get the chain there in the first place right now" and
 "would like to see this ugly-functional fd" and
 "doesn't yet comprehend long (road?) vs. short (mtb?) fd's"
 P
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Joe Bernard]

Have you ridden the GF's bike to see what's going on with the shifting? Is 
she using a friction shifter or index? If index, it may not work with what 
crank. 



On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 10:13:18 AM UTC-7 Ben Miller wrote:

> I have a converted Sugino hi/low a la Grant-style with a bash-guard in 
> place of the outer ring. I briefly had it on one of my bikes, where it 
> worked fine, but just recently took it off and replaced my GF's triple with 
> it. On that drive train, it will frequently get stuck between the hi-low 
> chainrings while she is downshifting. The chainrings are very new. The 
> chain on GF's bike isn't new, but checking for stretch with a chain tool, 
> it isn't overly worn. I think (?) i've installed the chainrings correctly, 
> but maybe not?? Any thoughts, as I'm confused by what's happening. My first 
> thought is just to replace the chain (even though it appears to have some 
> life left). Oh and on the original bike (mine) it was a 9 spd with a 10 spd 
> chain. This bike (GF's) is a 9 spd with a 9 spd chain. Curious that it 
> would work better with a 10 spd chain?
>
> On a related note, Patrick Moore said: "IME, the bigger hassle is getting 
> the best lateral angle for the cage." Totally agree. Any shortcuts/tips to 
> this?
>
> Ben
>
> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 1:57:36 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> I had to cut off the stop only because I perversely insisted on using an 
>> 8 or 9 speed-era road front der with a much later and 2-piece mountain bike 
>> triple.
>>
>> Without the stop, the derailleur will kick the chain over the bash guard 
>> and off the crank entirely; the reason is that the derailleur has to be 
>> positioned high enough (*just* high enough) for the outer cage to clear 
>> the bash guard, otherwise it won't move outward enough to shift the chain 
>> onto the "middle" ring. Note that my bash guard is the equivalent of a 44 t 
>> ring, IIRC; ie, not much bigger that the 42 now in "middle" position.
>>
>> The matching curves is purely fortuitous.
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:31 PM Matthew P  wrote:
>>
>>> Patrick that looks great. 
>>> Nice coupling of the two arcs of the toothless outer ring/guard and the 
>>> fd cage.
>>> Did you really have to hack off the stop, as in, backing out or removing 
>>> altogether the limit screw wasn't enough? I believe you regardless.
>>>
>>> I'm slowly grasping a few things:
>>> 1. the fd has to clear the toothless outer ring, which probably places 
>>> it a little high with respect to the outermost ring that has teeth
>>>   1.a. when people say "mount the FD high" is it high with respect 
>>> to that ring (middle in the triple) or high wrt the toothless outer (aka 
>>> really high for the middle ring)?
>>> 2. I bet that guard/toothless-ring also works great as a chain stop. 
>>> pretty hard to throw the chain off your biggest ring when you have one of 
>>> those, no?
>>> But if the chain never comes off I don't get to do my current favorite 
>>> bike trick: put the chain back on just using the fd (and pedalling, of 
>>> course)
>>>
>>> - Matthew 
>>> "I passed on the bash guard triple but am liking them more" and 
>>> "i can always throw it off the inner ring for fun" and 
>>> "but I can barely get the chain there in the first place right now" and
>>> "would like to see this ugly-functional fd" and
>>> "doesn't yet comprehend long (road?) vs. short (mtb?) fd's"
>>> P
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Ben Miller]

I have a converted Sugino hi/low a la Grant-style with a bash-guard in 
place of the outer ring. I briefly had it on one of my bikes, where it 
worked fine, but just recently took it off and replaced my GF's triple with 
it. On that drive train, it will frequently get stuck between the hi-low 
chainrings while she is downshifting. The chainrings are very new. The 
chain on GF's bike isn't new, but checking for stretch with a chain tool, 
it isn't overly worn. I think (?) i've installed the chainrings correctly, 
but maybe not?? Any thoughts, as I'm confused by what's happening. My first 
thought is just to replace the chain (even though it appears to have some 
life left). Oh and on the original bike (mine) it was a 9 spd with a 10 spd 
chain. This bike (GF's) is a 9 spd with a 9 spd chain. Curious that it 
would work better with a 10 spd chain?

On a related note, Patrick Moore said: "IME, the bigger hassle is getting 
the best lateral angle for the cage." Totally agree. Any shortcuts/tips to 
this?

Ben

On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 1:57:36 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I had to cut off the stop only because I perversely insisted on using an 8 
> or 9 speed-era road front der with a much later and 2-piece mountain bike 
> triple.
>
> Without the stop, the derailleur will kick the chain over the bash guard 
> and off the crank entirely; the reason is that the derailleur has to be 
> positioned high enough (*just* high enough) for the outer cage to clear 
> the bash guard, otherwise it won't move outward enough to shift the chain 
> onto the "middle" ring. Note that my bash guard is the equivalent of a 44 t 
> ring, IIRC; ie, not much bigger that the 42 now in "middle" position.
>
> The matching curves is purely fortuitous.
>
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:31 PM Matthew P  wrote:
>
>> Patrick that looks great. 
>> Nice coupling of the two arcs of the toothless outer ring/guard and the 
>> fd cage.
>> Did you really have to hack off the stop, as in, backing out or removing 
>> altogether the limit screw wasn't enough? I believe you regardless.
>>
>> I'm slowly grasping a few things:
>> 1. the fd has to clear the toothless outer ring, which probably places it 
>> a little high with respect to the outermost ring that has teeth
>>   1.a. when people say "mount the FD high" is it high with respect to 
>> that ring (middle in the triple) or high wrt the toothless outer (aka 
>> really high for the middle ring)?
>> 2. I bet that guard/toothless-ring also works great as a chain stop. 
>> pretty hard to throw the chain off your biggest ring when you have one of 
>> those, no?
>> But if the chain never comes off I don't get to do my current favorite 
>> bike trick: put the chain back on just using the fd (and pedalling, of 
>> course)
>>
>> - Matthew 
>> "I passed on the bash guard triple but am liking them more" and 
>> "i can always throw it off the inner ring for fun" and 
>> "but I can barely get the chain there in the first place right now" and
>> "would like to see this ugly-functional fd" and
>> "doesn't yet comprehend long (road?) vs. short (mtb?) fd's"
>> P
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Patrick Moore]

I had to cut off the stop only because I perversely insisted on using an 8
or 9 speed-era road front der with a much later and 2-piece mountain bike
triple.

Without the stop, the derailleur will kick the chain over the bash guard
and off the crank entirely; the reason is that the derailleur has to be
positioned high enough (*just* high enough) for the outer cage to clear the
bash guard, otherwise it won't move outward enough to shift the chain onto
the "middle" ring. Note that my bash guard is the equivalent of a 44 t
ring, IIRC; ie, not much bigger that the 42 now in "middle" position.

The matching curves is purely fortuitous.

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:31 PM Matthew P 
wrote:

> Patrick that looks great.
> Nice coupling of the two arcs of the toothless outer ring/guard and the fd
> cage.
> Did you really have to hack off the stop, as in, backing out or removing
> altogether the limit screw wasn't enough? I believe you regardless.
>
> I'm slowly grasping a few things:
> 1. the fd has to clear the toothless outer ring, which probably places it
> a little high with respect to the outermost ring that has teeth
>   1.a. when people say "mount the FD high" is it high with respect to
> that ring (middle in the triple) or high wrt the toothless outer (aka
> really high for the middle ring)?
> 2. I bet that guard/toothless-ring also works great as a chain stop.
> pretty hard to throw the chain off your biggest ring when you have one of
> those, no?
> But if the chain never comes off I don't get to do my current favorite
> bike trick: put the chain back on just using the fd (and pedalling, of
> course)
>
> - Matthew
> "I passed on the bash guard triple but am liking them more" and
> "i can always throw it off the inner ring for fun" and
> "but I can barely get the chain there in the first place right now" and
> "would like to see this ugly-functional fd" and
> "doesn't yet comprehend long (road?) vs. short (mtb?) fd's"
> P

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Joe Bernard]

I'm just talking about derailers, mate. Or derailleurs, your choice. 


On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 12:59:09 PM UTC-7 philipr...@gmail.com wrote:

> Oh man, when you said "mount it high" I tried to, but sort of lost 
> interest half way through the project & called out for pizza.
>
>
>
> I'll be here all week, try the veal.
>
> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 2:55:35 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> When people (me) say "mount it high", it means high over the small pant 
>> guard which would be a bigger chainring if that triple crank still had that 
>> ring. But it seems to matter a lot which fd you use because they don't all 
>> need that trick. Here's a pic I stole from Leah's (Bicycle Belle Ding Ding) 
>> Instagram after remembering she uses the Silver 24-38-guard crank setup on 
>> her (extremely rad) Platy. I don't know what derailer that is but it's 
>> sitting right over the guard with barely a gap and still clears the 
>> chainstay. Buy whatever is on her bike! 
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:31:20 AM UTC-7 Matthew P wrote:
>>
>>> Patrick that looks great. 
>>> Nice coupling of the two arcs of the toothless outer ring/guard and the 
>>> fd cage.
>>> Did you really have to hack off the stop, as in, backing out or removing 
>>> altogether the limit screw wasn't enough? I believe you regardless.
>>>
>>> I'm slowly grasping a few things:
>>> 1. the fd has to clear the toothless outer ring, which probably places 
>>> it a little high with respect to the outermost ring that has teeth
>>>   1.a. when people say "mount the FD high" is it high with respect 
>>> to that ring (middle in the triple) or high wrt the toothless outer (aka 
>>> really high for the middle ring)?
>>> 2. I bet that guard/toothless-ring also works great as a chain stop. 
>>> pretty hard to throw the chain off your biggest ring when you have one of 
>>> those, no?
>>> But if the chain never comes off I don't get to do my current favorite 
>>> bike trick: put the chain back on just using the fd (and pedalling, of 
>>> course)
>>>
>>> - Matthew 
>>> "I passed on the bash guard triple but am liking them more" and 
>>> "i can always throw it off the inner ring for fun" and 
>>> "but I can barely get the chain there in the first place right now" and
>>> "would like to see this ugly-functional fd" and
>>> "doesn't yet comprehend long (road?) vs. short (mtb?) fd's"
>>> P
>>> in San Diego / Kumeyaay Land
>>> On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 1:54:22 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 Yes, or as Patrick mentioned you can use any old (and cheap) Shimano 
 mtb triple. The 24-38 Silver cranks are a triple with the big ring 
 replaced 
 by a smaller pant guard; if you mount the derailer in its normal position 
 the cage contours will hit the middle and granny rings in the right spot. 
 The only "problem" is the big gap over the pant guard looks a little 
 funky. 

 Joe "funky is good" Bernard

 On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 9:01:43 AM UTC-7 Tom Wyland wrote:

> I had the same question about the front derailleur and the silver 
> low-high 38-24 crank.  It's my first build with a FD.  The gist is to get 
> a 
> road double and mess around until it works?  I have no intention of 
> spending $80 if a cheap one will work.
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Philip Barrett]

Oh man, when you said "mount it high" I tried to, but sort of lost interest 
half way through the project & called out for pizza.



I'll be here all week, try the veal.

On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 2:55:35 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> When people (me) say "mount it high", it means high over the small pant 
> guard which would be a bigger chainring if that triple crank still had that 
> ring. But it seems to matter a lot which fd you use because they don't all 
> need that trick. Here's a pic I stole from Leah's (Bicycle Belle Ding Ding) 
> Instagram after remembering she uses the Silver 24-38-guard crank setup on 
> her (extremely rad) Platy. I don't know what derailer that is but it's 
> sitting right over the guard with barely a gap and still clears the 
> chainstay. Buy whatever is on her bike! 
>
> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 11:31:20 AM UTC-7 Matthew P wrote:
>
>> Patrick that looks great. 
>> Nice coupling of the two arcs of the toothless outer ring/guard and the 
>> fd cage.
>> Did you really have to hack off the stop, as in, backing out or removing 
>> altogether the limit screw wasn't enough? I believe you regardless.
>>
>> I'm slowly grasping a few things:
>> 1. the fd has to clear the toothless outer ring, which probably places it 
>> a little high with respect to the outermost ring that has teeth
>>   1.a. when people say "mount the FD high" is it high with respect to 
>> that ring (middle in the triple) or high wrt the toothless outer (aka 
>> really high for the middle ring)?
>> 2. I bet that guard/toothless-ring also works great as a chain stop. 
>> pretty hard to throw the chain off your biggest ring when you have one of 
>> those, no?
>> But if the chain never comes off I don't get to do my current favorite 
>> bike trick: put the chain back on just using the fd (and pedalling, of 
>> course)
>>
>> - Matthew 
>> "I passed on the bash guard triple but am liking them more" and 
>> "i can always throw it off the inner ring for fun" and 
>> "but I can barely get the chain there in the first place right now" and
>> "would like to see this ugly-functional fd" and
>> "doesn't yet comprehend long (road?) vs. short (mtb?) fd's"
>> P
>> in San Diego / Kumeyaay Land
>> On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 1:54:22 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, or as Patrick mentioned you can use any old (and cheap) Shimano mtb 
>>> triple. The 24-38 Silver cranks are a triple with the big ring replaced by 
>>> a smaller pant guard; if you mount the derailer in its normal position the 
>>> cage contours will hit the middle and granny rings in the right spot. The 
>>> only "problem" is the big gap over the pant guard looks a little funky. 
>>>
>>> Joe "funky is good" Bernard
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 9:01:43 AM UTC-7 Tom Wyland wrote:
>>>
 I had the same question about the front derailleur and the silver 
 low-high 38-24 crank.  It's my first build with a FD.  The gist is to get 
 a 
 road double and mess around until it works?  I have no intention of 
 spending $80 if a cheap one will work.

 Tom





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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Matthew P]

Patrick that looks great. 
Nice coupling of the two arcs of the toothless outer ring/guard and the fd 
cage.
Did you really have to hack off the stop, as in, backing out or removing 
altogether the limit screw wasn't enough? I believe you regardless.

I'm slowly grasping a few things:
1. the fd has to clear the toothless outer ring, which probably places it a 
little high with respect to the outermost ring that has teeth
  1.a. when people say "mount the FD high" is it high with respect to 
that ring (middle in the triple) or high wrt the toothless outer (aka 
really high for the middle ring)?
2. I bet that guard/toothless-ring also works great as a chain stop. pretty 
hard to throw the chain off your biggest ring when you have one of those, 
no?
But if the chain never comes off I don't get to do my current favorite bike 
trick: put the chain back on just using the fd (and pedalling, of course)

- Matthew 
"I passed on the bash guard triple but am liking them more" and 
"i can always throw it off the inner ring for fun" and 
"but I can barely get the chain there in the first place right now" and
"would like to see this ugly-functional fd" and
"doesn't yet comprehend long (road?) vs. short (mtb?) fd's"
P
in San Diego / Kumeyaay Land
On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 1:54:22 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Yes, or as Patrick mentioned you can use any old (and cheap) Shimano mtb 
> triple. The 24-38 Silver cranks are a triple with the big ring replaced by 
> a smaller pant guard; if you mount the derailer in its normal position the 
> cage contours will hit the middle and granny rings in the right spot. The 
> only "problem" is the big gap over the pant guard looks a little funky. 
>
> Joe "funky is good" Bernard
>
> On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 9:01:43 AM UTC-7 Tom Wyland wrote:
>
>> I had the same question about the front derailleur and the silver 
>> low-high 38-24 crank.  It's my first build with a FD.  The gist is to get a 
>> road double and mess around until it works?  I have no intention of 
>> spending $80 if a cheap one will work.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Joe Bernard]

Yes, or as Patrick mentioned you can use any old (and cheap) Shimano mtb 
triple. The 24-38 Silver cranks are a triple with the big ring replaced by 
a smaller pant guard; if you mount the derailer in its normal position the 
cage contours will hit the middle and granny rings in the right spot. The 
only "problem" is the big gap over the pant guard looks a little funky. 

Joe "funky is good" Bernard

On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 9:01:43 AM UTC-7 Tom Wyland wrote:

> I had the same question about the front derailleur and the silver low-high 
> 38-24 crank.  It's my first build with a FD.  The gist is to get a road 
> double and mess around until it works?  I have no intention of spending $80 
> if a cheap one will work.
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Bill Lindsay]

I have a 650B MIT Atlantis with a Rivendell Silver 38/24 crankset.  I'm 
running a Shimano CX70 front derailleur and it works perfectly well.  I'm 
using Rivendell XO friction shifters mounted on the stem on an IRD stem 
shifter perch.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 9:01:43 AM UTC-7 Tom Wyland wrote:

> I had the same question about the front derailleur and the silver low-high 
> 38-24 crank.  It's my first build with a FD.  The gist is to get a road 
> double and mess around until it works?  I have no intention of spending $80 
> if a cheap one will work.
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Patrick Moore]

That's what I've done, with success. Again, I've only used friction setups,
so can't speak to indexing.

And again, and btw, I've also used another strategy: a mtb fd mounted
really high above the ring (ie, high enough to clear the stay). Seems to
work fine, perhaps because mtb fds have large inner plates. Example: LX fd
and 38 t "outer" ring in middle position (38/24, guard in place of original
46 t ring). IME, the bigger hassle is getting the best lateral angle for
the cage.

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 10:01 AM Tom Wyland  wrote:

> I had the same question about the front derailleur and the silver low-high
> 38-24 crank.  It's my first build with a FD.  The gist is to get a road
> double and mess around until it works?  I have no intention of spending $80
> if a cheap one will work.
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> --
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> 
> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Tom Wyland]

I had the same question about the front derailleur and the silver low-high 
38-24 crank.  It's my first build with a FD.  The gist is to get a road 
double and mess around until it works?  I have no intention of spending $80 
if a cheap one will work.

Tom



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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Brian Campbell]

Save yourself the time and aggravation of trying to find the correct rd. 
This one will.

https://www.interlocracing.com/shop/product/60110-ird-front-derailleur-sub-c-braze-on-2351?search=derailleur

Buy the bolt on mount and your done. Its not the cheapest option but it 
works really well. Also for Shimano drive trains the gap between the front 
derailleur and the the large ring should only be a few millimeters. Yes you 
can make other derailleurs  work and it might be fine.

On Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 12:26:47 AM UTC-4 Erik wrote:

> I'm working on putting together my shiny new gold Sam H that I picked up 
> from the Rivendell shop today.  Everything was coming together beautifully, 
> until I went to install the front derailleur. It's a Shimano 105-5700 for a 
> 2x set up.  I'm running a Silver Wide/Low double with a 38 / 24.  The cage 
> on the derailed is too long to set it up with the correct spacing between 
> the large chainring / guard and the cage.  It ends up hitting the chain 
> stay when I shift.  
>
> Does anyone else on here have a similar set up with a wide / low double? 
>  If so, what front derailleur do you use?  For the life of me, I can't 
> figure out a suitable replacement for the 105 and am dreading trying to 
> find one for sale anywhere.
>
> Any thoughts or advice?
>

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Jon B]

If you are really stuck, IRD makes a "Sub-C" front derailleur designed for 
subcompact setups.  From the picture, it appears to have a shorter cage 
than usual.  I cannot attest to its function or whether you need it, just 
alerting you to its existence.

Jon Blum

On Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 10:29:27 AM UTC-7 Paul Richardson wrote:

> i can't locate it right now, but somewhere in a blahg grant wrote in 
> reference to the ugliness of a front derailler, (probably the same XT 
> you're referring to), 
>
> "forgive it and move on."  
>
> i have a shim'd XT front on my suzie and try to remember this advice 
> whenever i idly find myself wishing it was vintage XTR.
>
> paul
> takoma park, md.
> On Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 9:04:07 AM UTC-4 philipr...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> My boss said that about me once.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 2:37:24 AM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> I'll just tell you the unfortunate truth now: I had that horrendous XT 
>>> on something (it may be on the Bombadil I sold Jason Fuller) and it's 
>>> magic. I remember sending a pic of it to Grant after he had said something 
>>> about ugly/perfect Shimano parts and said, "It's almost alarming something 
>>> this ugly can work so well."
>>>
>>> On Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 12:10:27 AM UTC-7 Erik wrote:
>>>
 I'll give this a shot tomorrow with the 105 and see what happens!  The 
 gap between the cage on the derailer and the pantguard is about an inch, 
 maybe slightly more.  I'm shifting with DuraAce bar ends, so it's 
 friction. 
   I also have an ugly, ugly XT front derailer that would need some shims 
 for the seat tube.  The cage is slightly shorter but it's so ugly and 
 bulky 
 that I'm not certain I could stomach having it on this bike.  I'll post up 
 some photos once its all set up.  Now, I just need to remember how to set 
 up cantilever brakes... 
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Paul Richardson]

i can't locate it right now, but somewhere in a blahg grant wrote in 
reference to the ugliness of a front derailler, (probably the same XT 
you're referring to), 

"forgive it and move on."  

i have a shim'd XT front on my suzie and try to remember this advice 
whenever i idly find myself wishing it was vintage XTR.

paul
takoma park, md.
On Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 9:04:07 AM UTC-4 philipr...@gmail.com wrote:

> My boss said that about me once.
>
>
>
> On Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 2:37:24 AM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> I'll just tell you the unfortunate truth now: I had that horrendous XT on 
>> something (it may be on the Bombadil I sold Jason Fuller) and it's magic. I 
>> remember sending a pic of it to Grant after he had said something about 
>> ugly/perfect Shimano parts and said, "It's almost alarming something this 
>> ugly can work so well."
>>
>> On Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 12:10:27 AM UTC-7 Erik wrote:
>>
>>> I'll give this a shot tomorrow with the 105 and see what happens!  The 
>>> gap between the cage on the derailer and the pantguard is about an inch, 
>>> maybe slightly more.  I'm shifting with DuraAce bar ends, so it's friction. 
>>>   I also have an ugly, ugly XT front derailer that would need some shims 
>>> for the seat tube.  The cage is slightly shorter but it's so ugly and bulky 
>>> that I'm not certain I could stomach having it on this bike.  I'll post up 
>>> some photos once its all set up.  Now, I just need to remember how to set 
>>> up cantilever brakes... 
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Philip Barrett]

My boss said that about me once.



On Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 2:37:24 AM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I'll just tell you the unfortunate truth now: I had that horrendous XT on 
> something (it may be on the Bombadil I sold Jason Fuller) and it's magic. I 
> remember sending a pic of it to Grant after he had said something about 
> ugly/perfect Shimano parts and said, "It's almost alarming something this 
> ugly can work so well."
>
> On Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 12:10:27 AM UTC-7 Erik wrote:
>
>> I'll give this a shot tomorrow with the 105 and see what happens!  The 
>> gap between the cage on the derailer and the pantguard is about an inch, 
>> maybe slightly more.  I'm shifting with DuraAce bar ends, so it's friction. 
>>   I also have an ugly, ugly XT front derailer that would need some shims 
>> for the seat tube.  The cage is slightly shorter but it's so ugly and bulky 
>> that I'm not certain I could stomach having it on this bike.  I'll post up 
>> some photos once its all set up.  Now, I just need to remember how to set 
>> up cantilever brakes... 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Joe Bernard]

I'll just tell you the unfortunate truth now: I had that horrendous XT on 
something (it may be on the Bombadil I sold Jason Fuller) and it's magic. I 
remember sending a pic of it to Grant after he had said something about 
ugly/perfect Shimano parts and said, "It's almost alarming something this 
ugly can work so well."

On Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 12:10:27 AM UTC-7 Erik wrote:

> I'll give this a shot tomorrow with the 105 and see what happens!  The gap 
> between the cage on the derailer and the pantguard is about an inch, maybe 
> slightly more.  I'm shifting with DuraAce bar ends, so it's friction.   I 
> also have an ugly, ugly XT front derailer that would need some shims for 
> the seat tube.  The cage is slightly shorter but it's so ugly and bulky 
> that I'm not certain I could stomach having it on this bike.  I'll post up 
> some photos once its all set up.  Now, I just need to remember how to set 
> up cantilever brakes... 

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Erik]

I'll give this a shot tomorrow with the 105 and see what happens!  The gap 
between the cage on the derailer and the pantguard is about an inch, maybe 
slightly more.  I'm shifting with DuraAce bar ends, so it's friction.   I 
also have an ugly, ugly XT front derailer that would need some shims for 
the seat tube.  The cage is slightly shorter but it's so ugly and bulky 
that I'm not certain I could stomach having it on this bike.  I'll post up 
some photos once its all set up.  Now, I just need to remember how to set 
up cantilever brakes... 

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleurs / Derailers / Whatever

[Joe Bernard]

What Patrick said because this is a common weirdness encountered with that 
chainring setup. The original plan when Grant said goodbye to the big ring 
on a triple was to run 24-38 without a derailer, you would put a stick down 
there to move the chain or kick it or hop off and make the "shift". Well 
the pantguard is roughly the same size as the formerly-middle ring, and 
what happens when you introduce a derailer on what is nominally still a 
triple crankset is it wants to sit at the height of the now missing big 
ring. Raise that derailer, son! 



On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 9:26:47 PM UTC-7 Erik wrote:

> I'm working on putting together my shiny new gold Sam H that I picked up 
> from the Rivendell shop today.  Everything was coming together beautifully, 
> until I went to install the front derailleur. It's a Shimano 105-5700 for a 
> 2x set up.  I'm running a Silver Wide/Low double with a 38 / 24.  The cage 
> on the derailed is too long to set it up with the correct spacing between 
> the large chainring / guard and the cage.  It ends up hitting the chain 
> stay when I shift.  
>
> Does anyone else on here have a similar set up with a wide / low double? 
>  If so, what front derailleur do you use?  For the life of me, I can't 
> figure out a suitable replacement for the 105 and am dreading trying to 
> find one for sale anywhere.
>
> Any thoughts or advice?
>

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