Re: [RBW] Re: Laid off and in a Quandary

[Patrick Moore]

Years ago I used to be sent around the country to do "ethics interviews" of
upper down to mid level management -- actually, down to field supervisors
in some cases -- pursuant to performing an "ethics audit" of the
organization. (I was the "associate consultant" who provided the data to
the full consultants.)

We worked with leading F 500 and even 200 companies as well as professional
organizations.

My view of the disconnect between the C's and Directors and VPs and the
lower levels was very striking; also striking was the forlorn confusion
among the lower ranks from the orders to be "ethical" -- in one company a
mgr was fired on the "no thieving" rule because he took somebody's Sprite
from the refrigerator -- and the much more important rule to get more done
and make more sales while cutting costs and resources. It's the damned
system!

At any rate, I swore I'd never do their jobs, and so far I've more or less
managed to keep this promise, with results for my wages.

I work with many very intelligent and personable clients, mid to upper
level (say, functional VPs and regional and country Directors; C's from
smaller and mid size orgs) and what strikes me is how much their identity
is bound up with their jobs, and how much -- incredibly much! -- energy and
time they spend on things that make for success, look good in Business
Week, but that have my eyes glazing when I have to read about it. As they
say those who can, do; those who can't, write resumes.

(OTOH again, I do have interesting clients doing interesting things besides
managing the $XXB capital budget for power infrastructure and what have
you; entrepreneurs and solo professionals.)

Point of this self indulgent ramble: man, if you can earn even a modest
living doing what you like, and what you like is something truly humanly
useful, you are so far ahead of the game that little else counts!

On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 3:19 PM, Allan in Portland 
wrote:

> If it helps, a lot of what people spend their money on is self-medicating
> something else they are miserable about in their life.
>
> A former co-worked joked after going back to grad school, "yeah, my income
> has dropped by about 90%, but I'm saving so much on hookers and booze I
> hardly notice the difference."
>
> Personally, about 7 years ago I quit work and took a personal a
> sabbatical. I can say almost the day after I walked out the door, and for
> the duration of my sabbatical the long list of "stuff" that I had wanted
> and been saving up for prior to my quitting lost all its desire to me. I
> was completely contented with what I had and more than happy spending my
> time on doing stuff that interested me and had personal meaning. It was
> remarkable, and totally unexpected in its degree.
>
> If the homestead experience is something you've always wanted to do, and
> it's going to give you a lot of personal fulfilment, then I can almost
> guarantee you won't miss the Clem and you'll probably even marvel at your
> state of mind that had you sending your original email. On the other hand,
> if you're going into the homestead as kind of a last resort/escape from the
> broken middle-class economy we as a nation have found ourselves in, well,
> odds are you're going to find it tough going with or without the Clem. If
> you think having it around will be a source of life's small pleasures, go
> ahead and get it. If you think it will be a source of friction and
> resentment, by all means pass.
>
> Best Regards,
> -Allan
>
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[RBW] Re: Laid off and in a Quandary

[Allan in Portland]

If it helps, a lot of what people spend their money on is self-medicating 
something else they are miserable about in their life.

A former co-worked joked after going back to grad school, "yeah, my income 
has dropped by about 90%, but I'm saving so much on hookers and booze I 
hardly notice the difference."

Personally, about 7 years ago I quit work and took a personal a sabbatical. 
I can say almost the day after I walked out the door, and for the duration 
of my sabbatical the long list of "stuff" that I had wanted and been saving 
up for prior to my quitting lost all its desire to me. I was completely 
contented with what I had and more than happy spending my time on doing 
stuff that interested me and had personal meaning. It was remarkable, and 
totally unexpected in its degree.

If the homestead experience is something you've always wanted to do, and 
it's going to give you a lot of personal fulfilment, then I can almost 
guarantee you won't miss the Clem and you'll probably even marvel at your 
state of mind that had you sending your original email. On the other hand, 
if you're going into the homestead as kind of a last resort/escape from the 
broken middle-class economy we as a nation have found ourselves in, well, 
odds are you're going to find it tough going with or without the Clem. If 
you think having it around will be a source of life's small pleasures, go 
ahead and get it. If you think it will be a source of friction and 
resentment, by all means pass.

Best Regards,
-Allan

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[RBW] Re: Laid off and in a Quandary

[Deacon Patrick]

Rear rack without fenders? Can't be done. Impossible. Nope. No way. Wait. 
Oops. Works fine. Sardonic grin.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/16786949014/in/album-72157652026645308/
and
https://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/19390517943/in/album-72157654012893374/

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, October 8, 2015 at 3:17:10 PM UTC-6, Wayne Naha wrote:
>
> It's great that you all are so supportive of my farming goal.  My brother 
> was all like "Are you sure that's a good idea?"  It's not a sure thing at 
> all, but it sounds more promising than anything I've done in the past.  It 
> will be, as was noted earlier in the replies, 'subsistence farming,' but, 
> as was also mentioned, hopefully we will do better than scratching a hole 
> in the dirt.  I still bounce between excited and freaked out.  But we are 
> selling the house and not looking back.
> So, do I really want to have fenders on the Clem?  I had planned on 
> fenders, but things have occurred.  Ditto for a rear rack.  That seems like 
> a necessity for carrying anything on a bike.  Does it make sense without 
> fenders?
>
> On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 12:28:19 PM UTC-4, Wayne Naha wrote:
>>
>> Well, a little over a week ago I was laid off from my job, after five and 
>> a half years.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Laid off and in a Quandary

[Wayne Naha]

It's great that you all are so supportive of my farming goal.  My brother 
was all like "Are you sure that's a good idea?"  It's not a sure thing at 
all, but it sounds more promising than anything I've done in the past.  It 
will be, as was noted earlier in the replies, 'subsistence farming,' but, 
as was also mentioned, hopefully we will do better than scratching a hole 
in the dirt.  I still bounce between excited and freaked out.  But we are 
selling the house and not looking back.
So, do I really want to have fenders on the Clem?  I had planned on 
fenders, but things have occurred.  Ditto for a rear rack.  That seems like 
a necessity for carrying anything on a bike.  Does it make sense without 
fenders?

On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 12:28:19 PM UTC-4, Wayne Naha wrote:
>
> Well, a little over a week ago I was laid off from my job, after five and 
> a half years.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Laid off and in a Quandary

[Patrick Moore]

Once again: compared to what I and most other people do for a living, even
scratching hole in the dirt is far, far FAR more dignified, even if less
comfortable.

This text struck me strongly; from a French essayist and museum curator, I
think, of a generation or 2 ago. Farming (not corporate farming, of course,
which is a travesty, even if I depend on it for my meals) isn't quite as
directly human, but I think it's close.

*The autonomy and self-sufficiency of primitive man is inconceivable to
us.[3]

The
absolute independence of a man who is sufficient for all his own needs and
in possession of all his own powers because he is still consciously
attached to his fostering and fertile source; the indefeasible and
indivisible dominion of such a person surpasses the understanding of a
“civilised” being, who puts himself in the same position, and supposes
himself degraded to a state of bestiality, alone, weak, poor, and naked—a
position in which he may perhaps find himself tomorrow, though he certainly
never lived in such a state in the past.*



*To understand the life of these men, clothed with skins of animals and
easily nourished by the fruits of the earth, one must allow them by way of
compensation and balance, a spirituality all the higher because it was not
inhibited by external devices. This condition corresponds to what is still
the state of pastoral peoples, and to that of the patriarchs who recite the
Bible and Koran, the dogmatic content and formal perfection of which are
incompatible with the modern theory of “primitive man”.*

Luc Benoist,* The Origins of Art*, Studies, 14, 3-4 (Summer-Autumn, 1980)

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 3:17 PM, Wayne Naha  wrote:

> It's great that you all are so supportive of my farming goal.  My brother
> was all like "Are you sure that's a good idea?"  It's not a sure thing at
> all, but it sounds more promising than anything I've done in the past.  It
> will be, as was noted earlier in the replies, 'subsistence farming,' but,
> as was also mentioned, hopefully we will do better than scratching a hole
> in the dirt.  I still bounce between excited and freaked out.  But we are
> selling the house and not looking back.
> So, do I really want to have fenders on the Clem?  I had planned on
> fenders, but things have occurred.  Ditto for a rear rack.  That seems like
> a necessity for carrying anything on a bike.  Does it make sense without
> fenders?
>
> On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 12:28:19 PM UTC-4, Wayne Naha wrote:
>>
>> Well, a little over a week ago I was laid off from my job, after five and
>> a half years.
>>
> --
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*
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto

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[RBW] Re: Laid off and in a Quandary

[Surlyprof]

The farm's in Michigan?  Rack AND fenders!

Good luck with the new adventure.  I'm confident that it will be much more 
successful with a Clem.

John 
The Northern Ohio escapee

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[RBW] Re: Laid off and in a Quandary

[RoadieRyan]

Wayne, I feel you pain -3 jobs since mid 2012 and I just started the latest 
one after a (unemployed) 5 month job search.  My dilemma was I had a 
purchased a late 70s Motobecane Grand Touring about a year ago that I had 
been trying to find for a couple years and then a bunch of new parts for 
it. as things started to get tight financially I was strongly considering 
selling the MB but decided I would first sell some of the new components 
(on this group).  I found out soon after listing the parts that I had a new 
job, so I was able to hold on to the MB and the parts I can replace as I am 
able.  I hope you are able to find alternatives to selling your dream frame 
and best of luck with the Farming venture -sounds exciting.

Ryan

On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 9:28:19 AM UTC-7, Wayne Naha wrote:

> Well, a little over a week ago I was laid off from my job, after five and 
> a half years.  The falling price of oil has had a sharply negative effect 
> in my industry.  There are other jobs in my field, but that would require a 
> major relocation.  My wife and I are tired of this, as it would be the 
> third such move in a little over a decade.  We are planning to relocate to 
> a plot of family land in the middle of BFE Michigan, and start a farm.  Its 
> a scary and exciting prospect.  My quandary is that I have a Clem on the 
> way, and it isn't paid for yet.  That is, Riv has their money but my credit 
> card has a big hole in it!  I have a good introductory deal:  No interest 
> for 15 months.  The Clem is the only purchase on the card.  So I figured 
> that it would be easy.  But now, of course, I feel differently.  Riv will 
> certainly cancel my sale, and someone else will certainly snap up the bike. 
>  But I can't let it go just yet.  It feels very selfish of me to want to 
> keep the bike, and I am trying to come up with ways to justify it's 
> existence in my life.  They ring hollow and I know it's just because the 
> bike has been this goal I've worked toward, and in some weird way, feel 
> I've earned.  Still, I might feel less stressed if I did just let it go. 
>  That money will find plenty of other uses.  Anyhow, I don't expect the 
> list to have any magic cures, but I just needed to rant.  Thanks for 
> listening.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Laid off and in a Quandary

[Kathy Carroll]

Great. Now you can truly be at peace with your decision and have a big wide
grin on your face every time you hop on that beautiful bike.  Share the joy
with some pics when you get it.
On Oct 7, 2015 8:07 AM, "Wayne Naha"  wrote:

> I have been so inspired reading all the wonderful replies here.  They are
> heartening and fortifying.  After talking it over with my wife, she thinks
> we can swing it, keeping the Clem.  There are lots of things that can be
> sold here, and really ought to be sold.  (Anyone in the market for a 4x5
> enlarger?  A Nikon F2?)  I am beginning to shift the terrified/excited
> balance over to the confident/excited side of things.  While I won't be
> hitching a plow to the Clem, it may prove itself useful on the farm.
> Though in truth, not so much more useful than any of a number of far less
> expensive bikes.  But it will make other privations more bearable.  (Anyone
> looking for a used Agile AL3500 Les Paul copy guitar?)  I can't stop
> smiling while reading all the replies to this thread.  Each one of your
> answers is helpful and appreciated.  The combined wisdom, enthusiasm,
> respect, and cheerful encouragement here is humbling.
>
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[RBW] Re: Laid off and in a Quandary

[Wayne Naha]

I have been so inspired reading all the wonderful replies here.  They are 
heartening and fortifying.  After talking it over with my wife, she thinks 
we can swing it, keeping the Clem.  There are lots of things that can be 
sold here, and really ought to be sold.  (Anyone in the market for a 4x5 
enlarger?  A Nikon F2?)  I am beginning to shift the terrified/excited 
balance over to the confident/excited side of things.  While I won't be 
hitching a plow to the Clem, it may prove itself useful on the farm. 
 Though in truth, not so much more useful than any of a number of far less 
expensive bikes.  But it will make other privations more bearable.  (Anyone 
looking for a used Agile AL3500 Les Paul copy guitar?)  I can't stop 
smiling while reading all the replies to this thread.  Each one of your 
answers is helpful and appreciated.  The combined wisdom, enthusiasm, 
respect, and cheerful encouragement here is humbling. 

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[RBW] Re: Laid off and in a Quandary

[Deacon Patrick]

Fantastic, Wayne! 99% of being daring is being stupid enough to move 
forward. Grin. I understand well the quandary, as many here do. When I 
ordered my Hunqapillar all I knew is I could ride a Schwinn Chinabike 3 
miles but needed time to recover upon returning (brain injury/vertigo 
thing). I hadn't found this group yet, and was trusting Grant. Spending 
more than our family mini-van is worth now on a bike seemed insane given we 
weren't sure how far or how much I could ride. Turns out the difference for 
me was stunning. I can ride as far as my body is physically able and 
(usually) return doing better than when I left. I'm convinced that is part 
of the reason Rivendells are such a sheer joy to ride -- they cost people 
less to ride in ways most don't realize are there -- freeing them up to 
enter the pure joy of the experience. It is worth sacrificing a wee bet to 
help it happen.

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Re: Laid off and in a Quandary

[Patrick Moore]

Wayne: I hope you'll chronicle your farming experience on this list, the
listmeister willing. Somehow, wealthy urban axes are faintly ridiculous (I
don't fault Riv for selling them; good tools are a gift from God, even if
they are expensive; it's the context, which most of us share, and which is
not our fault: it is our suburban/urban way of life that is the foolish
thing.) But good axes and other equipment on a farm -- that makes eminent
sense, and the upshot is, there is perhaps little more Rivendellian than
honest work on a small, family owned, lovingly worked farm.

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[RBW] Re: Laid off and in a Quandary

[Montclair BobbyB]

Wayne, you're not alone... Just remember things happen for a reason... One 
door closes, others open... 

Nothing like pairing the words 'scary' with 'exciting'... that's what 
motivates us to make things happen...  I say do whatever it takes... 
whether it's selling other bikes, unessential possessions, picking up extra 
work, etc...start socking away the Clem fund in your coffee can, little by 
little.. you've got time before you need to pay for it... MAKE IT HAPPEN, 
KEEP THAT CLEM!!!... it's something you will be especially proud of (having 
made it happen despite the challenges). 

Best of luck, move ahead and don't look back.  Live life to its fullest, 
craziest, and scariest/excitingest!!  *(Patrick Moore must be cringing at 
my butchering of the English language)*  We're with you.

Peace,
BB

On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 11:45:20 PM UTC-4, KC wrote:
>
> Obviously you and your family are the only ones that know how tight things 
> will be for you.  And what sacrifices everyone has to make - because you 
> won't enjoy the bike if everyone else is doing without things they want.  
> But if there is enough money for everyone to have a little something 
> special while they deny themselves a lot of other things for a while, then 
> it is nice to give yourself a little gift to soften the blow.  
>
> In addition to more Clems coming in later, I will bet that a few months 
> down the road we'll see the occasional post from someone that has decided 
> they need to sell their Clem and you will have the opportunity to purchase 
> an almost new one for a little less money when you are in a better position 
> to evaluate how much of an impact it will have on the budget.  
>
> I am very sorry you were laid off.  It is terrible to feel that things 
> aren't on your terms.  But I also know there is a real good chance that a 
> year or so from now you will experience a wonderful sense of freedom that 
> you are on a new and better path.  
>
>
>
> On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 9:28:19 AM UTC-7, Wayne Naha wrote:
>
>> Well, a little over a week ago I was laid off from my job, after five and 
>> a half years.  The falling price of oil has had a sharply negative effect 
>> in my industry.  There are other jobs in my field, but that would require a 
>> major relocation.  My wife and I are tired of this, as it would be the 
>> third such move in a little over a decade.  We are planning to relocate to 
>> a plot of family land in the middle of BFE Michigan, and start a farm.  Its 
>> a scary and exciting prospect.  My quandary is that I have a Clem on the 
>> way, and it isn't paid for yet.  That is, Riv has their money but my credit 
>> card has a big hole in it!  I have a good introductory deal:  No interest 
>> for 15 months.  The Clem is the only purchase on the card.  So I figured 
>> that it would be easy.  But now, of course, I feel differently.  Riv will 
>> certainly cancel my sale, and someone else will certainly snap up the bike. 
>>  But I can't let it go just yet.  It feels very selfish of me to want to 
>> keep the bike, and I am trying to come up with ways to justify it's 
>> existence in my life.  They ring hollow and I know it's just because the 
>> bike has been this goal I've worked toward, and in some weird way, feel 
>> I've earned.  Still, I might feel less stressed if I did just let it go. 
>>  That money will find plenty of other uses.  Anyhow, I don't expect the 
>> list to have any magic cures, but I just needed to rant.  Thanks for 
>> listening.
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Laid off and in a Quandary

[Evan E.]

Wayne: Clem or no Clem, best of luck on your next (ad)venture!

Evan

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[RBW] Re: Laid off and in a Quandary

[iamkeith]

Sorry to hear about the trials you're facing, Wayne.   As someone who 
chooses to live in BFE himself, despite the economic sacrifices of doing 
so, it sounds like this may be a blessing of sorts.  Hopefully you can look 
back on it some day and see it that way.

Obviously, you need to do whatever is prudent and necessary to survive at 
the moment.  I tend to buy bikes precisely when work is slowest - but when 
I have time to use them - rather than when I have lots of work and extra 
discretionary funds - but when I am too busy to use or think about them.   
So I might not have the clearest, most rational head about these things - 
but here are my thoughts:

It's pretty clear how much you've been looking forward to this.   Seems 
like it would be a shame to back out just a few days before it arrives, 
after all this waiting.   I'd say get it and see how much you like it, 
before getting rid of it.   You can still always sell it and, at the 
introductory price you paid, suffer little to no financial penalty.   In 
the meantime, this is also a good reason not to spend anything on 
"upgrades" or personalization, that would diminish the collectible/concours 
status.  Remember that you  happen to have one of the sought-after, 
ultra-rare, limited-edition versions that came stock with *clear-coated 
decals*  ;-)

You might want to framesaver it and/or keep it indoors when you get to 
Michigan, too.  I'm not sure where you live at the moment but, if memory 
serves, it can get pretty humid in most of Michigan, and I think they salt 
the roads in the winter.Best of luck wherever choices and circumstances 
lead you!

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[RBW] Re: Laid off and in a Quandary

[Ryan Ray]

Nothing to add but I too had about 1/2 saved up for a Riv from working side 
projects before the startup I was at collapsed and I found out I not only 
didn't have a job but I wasn't getting paid for the last month I worked. 
That 1500 was swallowed up by bills and everything was fine and a year 
later I had a used Ram but it was still a bummer. Good luck farming!

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[RBW] Re: Laid off and in a Quandary

[KC]

Obviously you and your family are the only ones that know how tight things 
will be for you.  And what sacrifices everyone has to make - because you 
won't enjoy the bike if everyone else is doing without things they want.  
But if there is enough money for everyone to have a little something 
special while they deny themselves a lot of other things for a while, then 
it is nice to give yourself a little gift to soften the blow.  

In addition to more Clems coming in later, I will bet that a few months 
down the road we'll see the occasional post from someone that has decided 
they need to sell their Clem and you will have the opportunity to purchase 
an almost new one for a little less money when you are in a better position 
to evaluate how much of an impact it will have on the budget.  

I am very sorry you were laid off.  It is terrible to feel that things 
aren't on your terms.  But I also know there is a real good chance that a 
year or so from now you will experience a wonderful sense of freedom that 
you are on a new and better path.  



On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 9:28:19 AM UTC-7, Wayne Naha wrote:

> Well, a little over a week ago I was laid off from my job, after five and 
> a half years.  The falling price of oil has had a sharply negative effect 
> in my industry.  There are other jobs in my field, but that would require a 
> major relocation.  My wife and I are tired of this, as it would be the 
> third such move in a little over a decade.  We are planning to relocate to 
> a plot of family land in the middle of BFE Michigan, and start a farm.  Its 
> a scary and exciting prospect.  My quandary is that I have a Clem on the 
> way, and it isn't paid for yet.  That is, Riv has their money but my credit 
> card has a big hole in it!  I have a good introductory deal:  No interest 
> for 15 months.  The Clem is the only purchase on the card.  So I figured 
> that it would be easy.  But now, of course, I feel differently.  Riv will 
> certainly cancel my sale, and someone else will certainly snap up the bike. 
>  But I can't let it go just yet.  It feels very selfish of me to want to 
> keep the bike, and I am trying to come up with ways to justify it's 
> existence in my life.  They ring hollow and I know it's just because the 
> bike has been this goal I've worked toward, and in some weird way, feel 
> I've earned.  Still, I might feel less stressed if I did just let it go. 
>  That money will find plenty of other uses.  Anyhow, I don't expect the 
> list to have any magic cures, but I just needed to rant.  Thanks for 
> listening.
>

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[RBW] Re: Laid off and in a Quandary

[dougP]

Have you considered selling some other bike(s) to pay off the Clem?  Seems 
like the Clem is a highly practical bike that would be right at home in a 
rural area.  

dougP

On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 9:28:19 AM UTC-7, Wayne Naha wrote:
>
> Well, a little over a week ago I was laid off from my job, after five and 
> a half years.  The falling price of oil has had a sharply negative effect 
> in my industry.  There are other jobs in my field, but that would require a 
> major relocation.  My wife and I are tired of this, as it would be the 
> third such move in a little over a decade.  We are planning to relocate to 
> a plot of family land in the middle of BFE Michigan, and start a farm.  Its 
> a scary and exciting prospect.  My quandary is that I have a Clem on the 
> way, and it isn't paid for yet.  That is, Riv has their money but my credit 
> card has a big hole in it!  I have a good introductory deal:  No interest 
> for 15 months.  The Clem is the only purchase on the card.  So I figured 
> that it would be easy.  But now, of course, I feel differently.  Riv will 
> certainly cancel my sale, and someone else will certainly snap up the bike. 
>  But I can't let it go just yet.  It feels very selfish of me to want to 
> keep the bike, and I am trying to come up with ways to justify it's 
> existence in my life.  They ring hollow and I know it's just because the 
> bike has been this goal I've worked toward, and in some weird way, feel 
> I've earned.  Still, I might feel less stressed if I did just let it go. 
>  That money will find plenty of other uses.  Anyhow, I don't expect the 
> list to have any magic cures, but I just needed to rant.  Thanks for 
> listening.
>

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[RBW] Re: Laid off and in a Quandary

[David Banzer]

If it helps, according to Riv's timeline, Clems will be available again 
next summer. So, it looks like there should be continued chances to get one 
should you decide to cancel your preorder.
Good luck in your farm endeavors. That's a dream of mine if I ever have the 
opportunity.
David
Chicago

On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 11:28:19 AM UTC-5, Wayne Naha wrote:
>
> Well, a little over a week ago I was laid off from my job, after five and 
> a half years.  The falling price of oil has had a sharply negative effect 
> in my industry.  There are other jobs in my field, but that would require a 
> major relocation.  My wife and I are tired of this, as it would be the 
> third such move in a little over a decade.  We are planning to relocate to 
> a plot of family land in the middle of BFE Michigan, and start a farm.  Its 
> a scary and exciting prospect.  My quandary is that I have a Clem on the 
> way, and it isn't paid for yet.  That is, Riv has their money but my credit 
> card has a big hole in it!  I have a good introductory deal:  No interest 
> for 15 months.  The Clem is the only purchase on the card.  So I figured 
> that it would be easy.  But now, of course, I feel differently.  Riv will 
> certainly cancel my sale, and someone else will certainly snap up the bike. 
>  But I can't let it go just yet.  It feels very selfish of me to want to 
> keep the bike, and I am trying to come up with ways to justify it's 
> existence in my life.  They ring hollow and I know it's just because the 
> bike has been this goal I've worked toward, and in some weird way, feel 
> I've earned.  Still, I might feel less stressed if I did just let it go. 
>  That money will find plenty of other uses.  Anyhow, I don't expect the 
> list to have any magic cures, but I just needed to rant.  Thanks for 
> listening.
>

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[RBW] Re: Laid off and in a Quandary

[Deacon Patrick]

I am sorry to hear that, Wayne! But what a daring and amazing adventure you 
are stepping into! Attach a plow to Clem and see what happens? Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 10:28:19 AM UTC-6, Wayne Naha wrote:
>
> Well, a little over a week ago I was laid off from my job, after five and 
> a half years. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Laid off and in a Quandary

[drew]

sorry to hear, but the farm idea sounds incredible. the way i justified my 
rivendell was by telling myself that it would stop me from buying vintage 
bikes and refurbishing them, which is a fun money hole. Also, that the new 
bike would be a bike to get old with.  it more or less did stop that habit, 
and im not very old yet, but im still excited to have the riv with me into 
the future. in the long run, i think it saved/will have saved me money 
(though definitely not initially and with a couple rounds of 
component/accessory swaps), and increased my satisfaction with biking. 

all that to say that maybe there are other things that can be cut out, or 
maybe a long lasting, durable farm bike could be worth investing in. 

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