Re: [RBW] Re: Not selling more bikes that need to be shipped

2021-09-17 Thread lconley 
Darn, now I have to Google Ken Rogers Racing Trike.

Laing

On Friday, September 17, 2021 at 3:28:20 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Oh, forgot, this isn't the iBoblist. The *'s are a not-entirely-serious 
> (but not-entirely facetious, either) snipe at the iBoblist moderators who 
> many years ago judged the trike to be off-topic!
>
> On Fri, Sep 17, 2021 at 1:25 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> ...Ken Rogers R*c*ng Tr*k*. 
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Not selling more bikes that need to be shipped

2021-09-17 Thread Patrick Moore 
Oh, forgot, this isn't the iBoblist. The *'s are a not-entirely-serious
(but not-entirely facetious, either) snipe at the iBoblist moderators who
many years ago judged the trike to be off-topic!

On Fri, Sep 17, 2021 at 1:25 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> ...Ken Rogers R*c*ng Tr*k*.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Not selling more bikes that need to be shipped

2021-09-17 Thread Patrick Moore 
FWIW, I've had several bikes and frames other pedaled contraptions packed
and shipped by LBS's with no problems. I'm known at these shops, and these
are premium shops, for what that's worth.

They've shipped regular bikes, frames, a Dahon, and -- by another shop -- a
58 cm c-c Ken Rogers R*c*ng Tr*k*. This last made a bulky package! No
complaints from recipients.

On Fri, Sep 17, 2021 at 10:50 AM Matt Beecher  wrote:

> I don't blame anyone for not being willing to ship.  I have my own
> hesitations and they have not worked out well when I tried in the past.
> I've certainly appreciated that others have shipped to me though...or in
> one case, drove from a couple states away to deliver a bike to my house.
>
> I think that if I were to do this, I would make the seller pay me, then I
> would deliver the bike to a nearby shop of the buyer's choice and have him
> deal directly with the shop for shipping, including paying the shop for
> packing/shipping.
>
> Best regards,
> Matt in Oswego, IL
>
> On Friday, September 17, 2021 at 9:11:20 AM UTC-5 ascpgh wrote:
>
>> I think that it behooves seller/packer/shipper to make use of the easily
>> videoed condition of the bike, the degree of protections employed and the
>> intact exterior of packaging when shipping as part of a transaction.
>>
>> Likewise, as a receiver/buyer/unpacker, there is a powerful bit of proof
>> that is fleeting to video the external condition of the delivered package,
>> the careful opening of the package and materials to expose the arrived
>> condition of the item.
>>
>> I think this documentation really eliminates the opportunity for parties
>> to the process to weasel out of responsibility for damage if it is
>> demonstrated. My undamaged  new rando frame, fork, stem, rack and decaleur
>> from Johnny Coast: https://photos.app.goo.gl/3rzbhNmBw2ioiddH7
>>
>> A new bike shipped to my shop was damaged when removed from its box. It
>> was a pre-season delivery bike, stored as shipped, waiting for assembly and
>> stock on the floor. Both right stays and rear wheel were bent beyond
>> straightening and treating as useful. On examination (MUCH more than that
>> upon delivery) a forklift tire tread was found across the box which was
>> otherwise in very good condition, not repaired or wrinkled with additional
>> creases you'd expect of such.
>>
>>
>> Andy Cheatham
>> Pittsburgh
>> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 7:48:32 PM UTC-5 maxcr wrote:
>>
>>> Not a rant, just a fact - it's just not worth the hassle.
>>>
>>> I have sold 3 bikes locally with no issue. Then, out of the other 3 that
>>> I have sold - all packed professionally by reputable bike shops and shipped
>>> with a full service shipper (bikeflights or the other one)- I have had
>>> problems with two of them.
>>>
>>> They have insurance and I can go fight the carrier for it, or the LBS or
>>> the buyer, but it's just not worth the hassle... not doing it anymore.
>>>
>>> What's your experience shipping bikes? What am I doing wrong?
>>>
>>> Max
>>> Trying to make things right by the buyer of my AHH
>>>
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> .
>


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---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[RBW] Re: Not selling more bikes that need to be shipped

2021-09-17 Thread Joe Bernard 
Andy references a point that I've mentioned to buyers but forgot to include 
here: careful retrieval of the bike from the box. Its stupid-easy to screw 
up a very carefully packed bicycle if you're not paying attention to where 
everything is and how it's attached as you start pulling, so I send pics 
and alert the buyer to take things real slow. Good call, Andy! 

Joe Bernard

On Friday, September 17, 2021 at 7:11:20 AM UTC-7 ascpgh wrote:

> I think that it behooves seller/packer/shipper to make use of the easily 
> videoed condition of the bike, the degree of protections employed and the 
> intact exterior of packaging when shipping as part of a transaction.
>
> Likewise, as a receiver/buyer/unpacker, there is a powerful bit of proof 
> that is fleeting to video the external condition of the delivered package, 
> the careful opening of the package and materials to expose the arrived 
> condition of the item. 
>
> I think this documentation really eliminates the opportunity for parties 
> to the process to weasel out of responsibility for damage if it is 
> demonstrated. My undamaged  new rando frame, fork, stem, rack and decaleur 
> from Johnny Coast: https://photos.app.goo.gl/3rzbhNmBw2ioiddH7
>
> A new bike shipped to my shop was damaged when removed from its box. It 
> was a pre-season delivery bike, stored as shipped, waiting for assembly and 
> stock on the floor. Both right stays and rear wheel were bent beyond 
> straightening and treating as useful. On examination (MUCH more than that 
> upon delivery) a forklift tire tread was found across the box which was 
> otherwise in very good condition, not repaired or wrinkled with additional 
> creases you'd expect of such.
>
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 7:48:32 PM UTC-5 maxcr wrote:
>
>> Not a rant, just a fact - it's just not worth the hassle.
>>
>> I have sold 3 bikes locally with no issue. Then, out of the other 3 that 
>> I have sold - all packed professionally by reputable bike shops and shipped 
>> with a full service shipper (bikeflights or the other one)- I have had 
>> problems with two of them.
>>
>> They have insurance and I can go fight the carrier for it, or the LBS or 
>> the buyer, but it's just not worth the hassle... not doing it anymore.
>>
>> What's your experience shipping bikes? What am I doing wrong?
>>
>> Max
>> Trying to make things right by the buyer of my AHH
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Not selling more bikes that need to be shipped

2021-09-17 Thread spencer robinson 
Matt Beecher is on the same wavelength as me…
On the occasions that I have sold a bike to someone long distance, the 
agreement I made with the buyer is that I will not ship it…if the buyer 
still wants the bike, I give them a few local bike shops and they can make 
their own deal with the shop. I agree to drop the bike at the shop and then 
the bike is no longer mine. I prefer to find a local buyer that I can meet 
halfway.




On Friday, September 17, 2021 at 12:50:29 PM UTC-4 Matt Beecher wrote:

> I don't blame anyone for not being willing to ship.  I have my own 
> hesitations and they have not worked out well when I tried in the past.  
> I've certainly appreciated that others have shipped to me though...or in 
> one case, drove from a couple states away to deliver a bike to my house.  
>
> I think that if I were to do this, I would make the seller pay me, then I 
> would deliver the bike to a nearby shop of the buyer's choice and have him 
> deal directly with the shop for shipping, including paying the shop for 
> packing/shipping.  
>
> Best regards,
> Matt in Oswego, IL
>
> On Friday, September 17, 2021 at 9:11:20 AM UTC-5 ascpgh wrote:
>
>> I think that it behooves seller/packer/shipper to make use of the easily 
>> videoed condition of the bike, the degree of protections employed and the 
>> intact exterior of packaging when shipping as part of a transaction.
>>
>> Likewise, as a receiver/buyer/unpacker, there is a powerful bit of proof 
>> that is fleeting to video the external condition of the delivered package, 
>> the careful opening of the package and materials to expose the arrived 
>> condition of the item. 
>>
>> I think this documentation really eliminates the opportunity for parties 
>> to the process to weasel out of responsibility for damage if it is 
>> demonstrated. My undamaged  new rando frame, fork, stem, rack and decaleur 
>> from Johnny Coast: https://photos.app.goo.gl/3rzbhNmBw2ioiddH7
>>
>> A new bike shipped to my shop was damaged when removed from its box. It 
>> was a pre-season delivery bike, stored as shipped, waiting for assembly and 
>> stock on the floor. Both right stays and rear wheel were bent beyond 
>> straightening and treating as useful. On examination (MUCH more than that 
>> upon delivery) a forklift tire tread was found across the box which was 
>> otherwise in very good condition, not repaired or wrinkled with additional 
>> creases you'd expect of such.
>>
>>
>> Andy Cheatham
>> Pittsburgh
>> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 7:48:32 PM UTC-5 maxcr wrote:
>>
>>> Not a rant, just a fact - it's just not worth the hassle.
>>>
>>> I have sold 3 bikes locally with no issue. Then, out of the other 3 that 
>>> I have sold - all packed professionally by reputable bike shops and shipped 
>>> with a full service shipper (bikeflights or the other one)- I have had 
>>> problems with two of them.
>>>
>>> They have insurance and I can go fight the carrier for it, or the LBS or 
>>> the buyer, but it's just not worth the hassle... not doing it anymore.
>>>
>>> What's your experience shipping bikes? What am I doing wrong?
>>>
>>> Max
>>> Trying to make things right by the buyer of my AHH
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Not selling more bikes that need to be shipped

2021-09-17 Thread Matt Beecher 
I don't blame anyone for not being willing to ship.  I have my own 
hesitations and they have not worked out well when I tried in the past.  
I've certainly appreciated that others have shipped to me though...or in 
one case, drove from a couple states away to deliver a bike to my house.  

I think that if I were to do this, I would make the seller pay me, then I 
would deliver the bike to a nearby shop of the buyer's choice and have him 
deal directly with the shop for shipping, including paying the shop for 
packing/shipping.  

Best regards,
Matt in Oswego, IL

On Friday, September 17, 2021 at 9:11:20 AM UTC-5 ascpgh wrote:

> I think that it behooves seller/packer/shipper to make use of the easily 
> videoed condition of the bike, the degree of protections employed and the 
> intact exterior of packaging when shipping as part of a transaction.
>
> Likewise, as a receiver/buyer/unpacker, there is a powerful bit of proof 
> that is fleeting to video the external condition of the delivered package, 
> the careful opening of the package and materials to expose the arrived 
> condition of the item. 
>
> I think this documentation really eliminates the opportunity for parties 
> to the process to weasel out of responsibility for damage if it is 
> demonstrated. My undamaged  new rando frame, fork, stem, rack and decaleur 
> from Johnny Coast: https://photos.app.goo.gl/3rzbhNmBw2ioiddH7
>
> A new bike shipped to my shop was damaged when removed from its box. It 
> was a pre-season delivery bike, stored as shipped, waiting for assembly and 
> stock on the floor. Both right stays and rear wheel were bent beyond 
> straightening and treating as useful. On examination (MUCH more than that 
> upon delivery) a forklift tire tread was found across the box which was 
> otherwise in very good condition, not repaired or wrinkled with additional 
> creases you'd expect of such.
>
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 7:48:32 PM UTC-5 maxcr wrote:
>
>> Not a rant, just a fact - it's just not worth the hassle.
>>
>> I have sold 3 bikes locally with no issue. Then, out of the other 3 that 
>> I have sold - all packed professionally by reputable bike shops and shipped 
>> with a full service shipper (bikeflights or the other one)- I have had 
>> problems with two of them.
>>
>> They have insurance and I can go fight the carrier for it, or the LBS or 
>> the buyer, but it's just not worth the hassle... not doing it anymore.
>>
>> What's your experience shipping bikes? What am I doing wrong?
>>
>> Max
>> Trying to make things right by the buyer of my AHH
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Not selling more bikes that need to be shipped

2021-09-17 Thread ascpgh 
I think that it behooves seller/packer/shipper to make use of the easily 
videoed condition of the bike, the degree of protections employed and the 
intact exterior of packaging when shipping as part of a transaction.

Likewise, as a receiver/buyer/unpacker, there is a powerful bit of proof 
that is fleeting to video the external condition of the delivered package, 
the careful opening of the package and materials to expose the arrived 
condition of the item. 

I think this documentation really eliminates the opportunity for parties to 
the process to weasel out of responsibility for damage if it is 
demonstrated. My undamaged  new rando frame, fork, stem, rack and decaleur 
from Johnny Coast: https://photos.app.goo.gl/3rzbhNmBw2ioiddH7

A new bike shipped to my shop was damaged when removed from its box. It was 
a pre-season delivery bike, stored as shipped, waiting for assembly and 
stock on the floor. Both right stays and rear wheel were bent beyond 
straightening and treating as useful. On examination (MUCH more than that 
upon delivery) a forklift tire tread was found across the box which was 
otherwise in very good condition, not repaired or wrinkled with additional 
creases you'd expect of such.


Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh
On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 7:48:32 PM UTC-5 maxcr wrote:

> Not a rant, just a fact - it's just not worth the hassle.
>
> I have sold 3 bikes locally with no issue. Then, out of the other 3 that I 
> have sold - all packed professionally by reputable bike shops and shipped 
> with a full service shipper (bikeflights or the other one)- I have had 
> problems with two of them.
>
> They have insurance and I can go fight the carrier for it, or the LBS or 
> the buyer, but it's just not worth the hassle... not doing it anymore.
>
> What's your experience shipping bikes? What am I doing wrong?
>
> Max
> Trying to make things right by the buyer of my AHH
>

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[RBW] Re: Not selling more bikes that need to be shipped

2021-09-17 Thread maxcr 
Thank you all for your comments - it's clear that I'm not alone. I guess 
the decision is whether to try out self-packing or sell locally.

Max

On Friday, September 17, 2021 at 8:22:32 AM UTC-4 lconley wrote:

> I agree that to do it right, you have to do it yourself, IF you have the 
> skills - If you don't work on your own bike, you probably shouldn't ship 
> the bike yourself either. I had a bike packed and shipped by a well known 
> national chain bike shop and it arrived with minor damage. No problem with 
> bikes that I did myself. I keep most of the materials and boxes that my 
> frames, wheels or bikes come in, and use them when I ship. I must have 6 or 
> seven frame boxes in the storage unit now, full of styrofoam tube 
> protectors and wheel boxes. 
>
> Laing
> Delray Beach FL
>
> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 11:49:24 PM UTC-4 chrispm...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I think Joe has it right. Bikes are shipped all over the world every 
>> single day without issue. The issues arise when the person doing the 
>> packing isn’t invested in the bike (ie doesn’t really give a sh@#) and 
>> doesn’t really care if the bike makes it safely. Pack it yourself, require 
>> an inspection before the box is sealed if you pay a shop, or find someone 
>> you can really trust. Or just sell  it local. 
>> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 10:15:40 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>> Ding! wrote:
>>
>>> Max, I hate it so much. I know how you feel. I have been there.
>>>
>>> I was preparing to make room in the garage for my raspberry Platy. I 
>>> decided to sell my inherited Clementine and my Betty Foy. I paid to have 
>>> the bikes professionally packed and shipped via Bike Flights, with 
>>> insurance. When the aqua Clementine arrived at the buyer’s home it was 
>>> badly dinged up. Like, multiple places. But the box was intact! The buyer 
>>> could clearly see the cause of the damage - loose metal not secured to the 
>>> frame in the box. I set out to make it right and let the seller choose from 
>>> two options. Once he chose (I deeply discounted the bike) I went to both 
>>> the bike shop and Bike Flights. It was a long process with the bike shop, 
>>> who honestly believed it was the buyer’s fault. They accused him of 
>>> purposely damaging the bike, hoping for a discount. This was not at all 
>>> plausible. The mechanic had not secured parts (I forget what), and the box 
>>> was intact, therefore exonerating the shipper. The shop wanted to give me 
>>> $100 for a powder coat paint job - and begrudgingly at that. I couldn’t 
>>> even begin to explain to them how expensive a Rivendell repaint would be. 
>>>
>>> But Bike Flights was much more reasonable than my local shop and cut me 
>>> a check for the damages without argument. I really was surprised since this 
>>> appeared to be a packing issue. I felt guilty collecting the insurance 
>>> money.
>>>
>>> It made me sick to my stomach to see that pristine bike banged up so 
>>> badly, sick over arguing with the manager at REI, sick that Bike Flights 
>>> had to pay, and sick at what the buyer must now think of me.
>>>
>>> So, yes, local if possible.
>>> Leah
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 6:42:59 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 My experience is I stopped having problems when I took over the 
 packing. I hate it and didn't consider myself good at it, but after a 
 while 
 it became clear that "reputable bike shops" are extremely spotty about 
 this 
 skill. I still hate it and it takes me forever, but my self-packed bikes 
 have all arrived to happy buyers. 

 Joe "never again 'til next time" Bernard

 On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 5:48:32 PM UTC-7 maxcr wrote:

> Not a rant, just a fact - it's just not worth the hassle.
>
> I have sold 3 bikes locally with no issue. Then, out of the other 3 
> that I have sold - all packed professionally by reputable bike shops and 
> shipped with a full service shipper (bikeflights or the other one)- I 
> have 
> had problems with two of them.
>
> They have insurance and I can go fight the carrier for it, or the LBS 
> or the buyer, but it's just not worth the hassle... not doing it anymore.
>
> What's your experience shipping bikes? What am I doing wrong?
>
> Max
> Trying to make things right by the buyer of my AHH
>


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[RBW] Re: Not selling more bikes that need to be shipped

2021-09-17 Thread lconley 
I agree that to do it right, you have to do it yourself, IF you have the 
skills - If you don't work on your own bike, you probably shouldn't ship 
the bike yourself either. I had a bike packed and shipped by a well known 
national chain bike shop and it arrived with minor damage. No problem with 
bikes that I did myself. I keep most of the materials and boxes that my 
frames, wheels or bikes come in, and use them when I ship. I must have 6 or 
seven frame boxes in the storage unit now, full of styrofoam tube 
protectors and wheel boxes. 

Laing
Delray Beach FL

On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 11:49:24 PM UTC-4 chrispm...@gmail.com 
wrote:

>
> I think Joe has it right. Bikes are shipped all over the world every 
> single day without issue. The issues arise when the person doing the 
> packing isn’t invested in the bike (ie doesn’t really give a sh@#) and 
> doesn’t really care if the bike makes it safely. Pack it yourself, require 
> an inspection before the box is sealed if you pay a shop, or find someone 
> you can really trust. Or just sell  it local. 
> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 10:15:40 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding 
> Ding! wrote:
>
>> Max, I hate it so much. I know how you feel. I have been there.
>>
>> I was preparing to make room in the garage for my raspberry Platy. I 
>> decided to sell my inherited Clementine and my Betty Foy. I paid to have 
>> the bikes professionally packed and shipped via Bike Flights, with 
>> insurance. When the aqua Clementine arrived at the buyer’s home it was 
>> badly dinged up. Like, multiple places. But the box was intact! The buyer 
>> could clearly see the cause of the damage - loose metal not secured to the 
>> frame in the box. I set out to make it right and let the seller choose from 
>> two options. Once he chose (I deeply discounted the bike) I went to both 
>> the bike shop and Bike Flights. It was a long process with the bike shop, 
>> who honestly believed it was the buyer’s fault. They accused him of 
>> purposely damaging the bike, hoping for a discount. This was not at all 
>> plausible. The mechanic had not secured parts (I forget what), and the box 
>> was intact, therefore exonerating the shipper. The shop wanted to give me 
>> $100 for a powder coat paint job - and begrudgingly at that. I couldn’t 
>> even begin to explain to them how expensive a Rivendell repaint would be. 
>>
>> But Bike Flights was much more reasonable than my local shop and cut me a 
>> check for the damages without argument. I really was surprised since this 
>> appeared to be a packing issue. I felt guilty collecting the insurance 
>> money.
>>
>> It made me sick to my stomach to see that pristine bike banged up so 
>> badly, sick over arguing with the manager at REI, sick that Bike Flights 
>> had to pay, and sick at what the buyer must now think of me.
>>
>> So, yes, local if possible.
>> Leah
>>
>> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 6:42:59 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> My experience is I stopped having problems when I took over the packing. 
>>> I hate it and didn't consider myself good at it, but after a while it 
>>> became clear that "reputable bike shops" are extremely spotty about this 
>>> skill. I still hate it and it takes me forever, but my self-packed bikes 
>>> have all arrived to happy buyers. 
>>>
>>> Joe "never again 'til next time" Bernard
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 5:48:32 PM UTC-7 maxcr wrote:
>>>
 Not a rant, just a fact - it's just not worth the hassle.

 I have sold 3 bikes locally with no issue. Then, out of the other 3 
 that I have sold - all packed professionally by reputable bike shops and 
 shipped with a full service shipper (bikeflights or the other one)- I have 
 had problems with two of them.

 They have insurance and I can go fight the carrier for it, or the LBS 
 or the buyer, but it's just not worth the hassle... not doing it anymore.

 What's your experience shipping bikes? What am I doing wrong?

 Max
 Trying to make things right by the buyer of my AHH

>>>

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[RBW] Re: Not selling more bikes that need to be shipped

2021-09-17 Thread Ed Carolipio 
For me, I've never trusted another person to pack a bike I'm selling since 
I figure they're not on the hook if something goes wrong.

I've packed and shipped several completes and frames, and so far (knock on 
wood) never had a buyer complain. I'm not a pro by any means: I'm slow, I 
use far too much packing material, and I tend to disassemble items I'm 
never about getting damaged or causing damage during transit. IMO if a 
person is mechanically inclined enough to work on their bike, packing one 
is well within their capability.

Good luck on getting your issue resolved.

--Ed C.

On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 5:48:32 PM UTC-7 maxcr wrote:

> Not a rant, just a fact - it's just not worth the hassle.
>
> I have sold 3 bikes locally with no issue. Then, out of the other 3 that I 
> have sold - all packed professionally by reputable bike shops and shipped 
> with a full service shipper (bikeflights or the other one)- I have had 
> problems with two of them.
>
> They have insurance and I can go fight the carrier for it, or the LBS or 
> the buyer, but it's just not worth the hassle... not doing it anymore.
>
> What's your experience shipping bikes? What am I doing wrong?
>
> Max
> Trying to make things right by the buyer of my AHH
>

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[RBW] Re: Not selling more bikes that need to be shipped

2021-09-16 Thread Minh 
i have a few other hobbies, and i've noticed that shippers are not quite as 
careful as well.  even in cases with well packed packages, there is damage 
being caused.  i agree that keep market local will save you a lot of 
potential problems.  i get thats not always possible with specialized items 
like these bikes, so its a tough situation.  

On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 11:49:24 PM UTC-4 chrispm...@gmail.com 
wrote:

>
> I think Joe has it right. Bikes are shipped all over the world every 
> single day without issue. The issues arise when the person doing the 
> packing isn’t invested in the bike (ie doesn’t really give a sh@#) and 
> doesn’t really care if the bike makes it safely. Pack it yourself, require 
> an inspection before the box is sealed if you pay a shop, or find someone 
> you can really trust. Or just sell  it local. 
> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 10:15:40 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding 
> Ding! wrote:
>
>> Max, I hate it so much. I know how you feel. I have been there.
>>
>> I was preparing to make room in the garage for my raspberry Platy. I 
>> decided to sell my inherited Clementine and my Betty Foy. I paid to have 
>> the bikes professionally packed and shipped via Bike Flights, with 
>> insurance. When the aqua Clementine arrived at the buyer’s home it was 
>> badly dinged up. Like, multiple places. But the box was intact! The buyer 
>> could clearly see the cause of the damage - loose metal not secured to the 
>> frame in the box. I set out to make it right and let the seller choose from 
>> two options. Once he chose (I deeply discounted the bike) I went to both 
>> the bike shop and Bike Flights. It was a long process with the bike shop, 
>> who honestly believed it was the buyer’s fault. They accused him of 
>> purposely damaging the bike, hoping for a discount. This was not at all 
>> plausible. The mechanic had not secured parts (I forget what), and the box 
>> was intact, therefore exonerating the shipper. The shop wanted to give me 
>> $100 for a powder coat paint job - and begrudgingly at that. I couldn’t 
>> even begin to explain to them how expensive a Rivendell repaint would be. 
>>
>> But Bike Flights was much more reasonable than my local shop and cut me a 
>> check for the damages without argument. I really was surprised since this 
>> appeared to be a packing issue. I felt guilty collecting the insurance 
>> money.
>>
>> It made me sick to my stomach to see that pristine bike banged up so 
>> badly, sick over arguing with the manager at REI, sick that Bike Flights 
>> had to pay, and sick at what the buyer must now think of me.
>>
>> So, yes, local if possible.
>> Leah
>>
>> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 6:42:59 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> My experience is I stopped having problems when I took over the packing. 
>>> I hate it and didn't consider myself good at it, but after a while it 
>>> became clear that "reputable bike shops" are extremely spotty about this 
>>> skill. I still hate it and it takes me forever, but my self-packed bikes 
>>> have all arrived to happy buyers. 
>>>
>>> Joe "never again 'til next time" Bernard
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 5:48:32 PM UTC-7 maxcr wrote:
>>>
 Not a rant, just a fact - it's just not worth the hassle.

 I have sold 3 bikes locally with no issue. Then, out of the other 3 
 that I have sold - all packed professionally by reputable bike shops and 
 shipped with a full service shipper (bikeflights or the other one)- I have 
 had problems with two of them.

 They have insurance and I can go fight the carrier for it, or the LBS 
 or the buyer, but it's just not worth the hassle... not doing it anymore.

 What's your experience shipping bikes? What am I doing wrong?

 Max
 Trying to make things right by the buyer of my AHH

>>>

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[RBW] Re: Not selling more bikes that need to be shipped

2021-09-16 Thread Christopher Murray 

I think Joe has it right. Bikes are shipped all over the world every single 
day without issue. The issues arise when the person doing the packing isn’t 
invested in the bike (ie doesn’t really give a sh@#) and doesn’t really 
care if the bike makes it safely. Pack it yourself, require an inspection 
before the box is sealed if you pay a shop, or find someone you can really 
trust. Or just sell  it local. 
On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 10:15:40 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding 
Ding! wrote:

> Max, I hate it so much. I know how you feel. I have been there.
>
> I was preparing to make room in the garage for my raspberry Platy. I 
> decided to sell my inherited Clementine and my Betty Foy. I paid to have 
> the bikes professionally packed and shipped via Bike Flights, with 
> insurance. When the aqua Clementine arrived at the buyer’s home it was 
> badly dinged up. Like, multiple places. But the box was intact! The buyer 
> could clearly see the cause of the damage - loose metal not secured to the 
> frame in the box. I set out to make it right and let the seller choose from 
> two options. Once he chose (I deeply discounted the bike) I went to both 
> the bike shop and Bike Flights. It was a long process with the bike shop, 
> who honestly believed it was the buyer’s fault. They accused him of 
> purposely damaging the bike, hoping for a discount. This was not at all 
> plausible. The mechanic had not secured parts (I forget what), and the box 
> was intact, therefore exonerating the shipper. The shop wanted to give me 
> $100 for a powder coat paint job - and begrudgingly at that. I couldn’t 
> even begin to explain to them how expensive a Rivendell repaint would be. 
>
> But Bike Flights was much more reasonable than my local shop and cut me a 
> check for the damages without argument. I really was surprised since this 
> appeared to be a packing issue. I felt guilty collecting the insurance 
> money.
>
> It made me sick to my stomach to see that pristine bike banged up so 
> badly, sick over arguing with the manager at REI, sick that Bike Flights 
> had to pay, and sick at what the buyer must now think of me.
>
> So, yes, local if possible.
> Leah
>
> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 6:42:59 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> My experience is I stopped having problems when I took over the packing. 
>> I hate it and didn't consider myself good at it, but after a while it 
>> became clear that "reputable bike shops" are extremely spotty about this 
>> skill. I still hate it and it takes me forever, but my self-packed bikes 
>> have all arrived to happy buyers. 
>>
>> Joe "never again 'til next time" Bernard
>>
>> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 5:48:32 PM UTC-7 maxcr wrote:
>>
>>> Not a rant, just a fact - it's just not worth the hassle.
>>>
>>> I have sold 3 bikes locally with no issue. Then, out of the other 3 that 
>>> I have sold - all packed professionally by reputable bike shops and shipped 
>>> with a full service shipper (bikeflights or the other one)- I have had 
>>> problems with two of them.
>>>
>>> They have insurance and I can go fight the carrier for it, or the LBS or 
>>> the buyer, but it's just not worth the hassle... not doing it anymore.
>>>
>>> What's your experience shipping bikes? What am I doing wrong?
>>>
>>> Max
>>> Trying to make things right by the buyer of my AHH
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Not selling more bikes that need to be shipped

2021-09-16 Thread Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
Max, I hate it so much. I know how you feel. I have been there.

I was preparing to make room in the garage for my raspberry Platy. I 
decided to sell my inherited Clementine and my Betty Foy. I paid to have 
the bikes professionally packed and shipped via Bike Flights, with 
insurance. When the aqua Clementine arrived at the buyer’s home it was 
badly dinged up. Like, multiple places. But the box was intact! The buyer 
could clearly see the cause of the damage - loose metal not secured to the 
frame in the box. I set out to make it right and let the seller choose from 
two options. Once he chose (I deeply discounted the bike) I went to both 
the bike shop and Bike Flights. It was a long process with the bike shop, 
who honestly believed it was the buyer’s fault. They accused him of 
purposely damaging the bike, hoping for a discount. This was not at all 
plausible. The mechanic had not secured parts (I forget what), and the box 
was intact, therefore exonerating the shipper. The shop wanted to give me 
$100 for a powder coat paint job - and begrudgingly at that. I couldn’t 
even begin to explain to them how expensive a Rivendell repaint would be. 

But Bike Flights was much more reasonable than my local shop and cut me a 
check for the damages without argument. I really was surprised since this 
appeared to be a packing issue. I felt guilty collecting the insurance 
money.

It made me sick to my stomach to see that pristine bike banged up so badly, 
sick over arguing with the manager at REI, sick that Bike Flights had to 
pay, and sick at what the buyer must now think of me.

So, yes, local if possible.
Leah

On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 6:42:59 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> My experience is I stopped having problems when I took over the packing. I 
> hate it and didn't consider myself good at it, but after a while it became 
> clear that "reputable bike shops" are extremely spotty about this skill. I 
> still hate it and it takes me forever, but my self-packed bikes have all 
> arrived to happy buyers. 
>
> Joe "never again 'til next time" Bernard
>
> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 5:48:32 PM UTC-7 maxcr wrote:
>
>> Not a rant, just a fact - it's just not worth the hassle.
>>
>> I have sold 3 bikes locally with no issue. Then, out of the other 3 that 
>> I have sold - all packed professionally by reputable bike shops and shipped 
>> with a full service shipper (bikeflights or the other one)- I have had 
>> problems with two of them.
>>
>> They have insurance and I can go fight the carrier for it, or the LBS or 
>> the buyer, but it's just not worth the hassle... not doing it anymore.
>>
>> What's your experience shipping bikes? What am I doing wrong?
>>
>> Max
>> Trying to make things right by the buyer of my AHH
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Not selling more bikes that need to be shipped

2021-09-16 Thread Joe Bernard 
My experience is I stopped having problems when I took over the packing. I 
hate it and didn't consider myself good at it, but after a while it became 
clear that "reputable bike shops" are extremely spotty about this skill. I 
still hate it and it takes me forever, but my self-packed bikes have all 
arrived to happy buyers. 

Joe "never again 'til next time" Bernard

On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 5:48:32 PM UTC-7 maxcr wrote:

> Not a rant, just a fact - it's just not worth the hassle.
>
> I have sold 3 bikes locally with no issue. Then, out of the other 3 that I 
> have sold - all packed professionally by reputable bike shops and shipped 
> with a full service shipper (bikeflights or the other one)- I have had 
> problems with two of them.
>
> They have insurance and I can go fight the carrier for it, or the LBS or 
> the buyer, but it's just not worth the hassle... not doing it anymore.
>
> What's your experience shipping bikes? What am I doing wrong?
>
> Max
> Trying to make things right by the buyer of my AHH
>

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