subject:"\[RBW\] Re\: Thinking about cycling for me in the future...."

There is no "tit for tat" here, the playing field is completely lopsided. 
Even if every cyclist rode like a jerk, we are talking about a human being 
on a 30-pound bicycle vs. one in a 3,000 pound car. They can do stupid 
stuff and get killed for it, but generally, morally, they must be given the 
right of way whenever possible, even when doing annoying stuff. (But a lot 
of that "annoying stuff" is survival stuff--and often legal. Such as riding 
to stay out of debris on the right hand side of the road, riding so that a 
car does not attempt to pass on a blind curve, moving to the left of the 
lane to execute a left-hand turn, etc.)

Ninety percent of the complaints from motorists, when you really look at, 
come down to, My way was impeded for a few seconds. My way is the right and 
true way, so I should not be impeded for a few seconds by people who don't 
belong on the roads. Roads are for driving your car and texting your 
friends and watching funny videos. Not for bicycles. 

One summer evening I was coming home from work. I had just gotten off the 
path over the Newburgh Beacon bridge and was heading down 9D toward town. 
There was the typical huge backup of traffic going the other way, as a 
commuter train had pulled in, and many of the people parked at the Beacon 
station live across the river in Orange County.

With no traffic behind me, I took a bit of the lane to avoid the sewer 
grates. A guy in a pickup truck, stuck on the other side, yelled out "Get 
the f*&! out of the road. Use the f*&@! sidewalk, a##ho&* He was on the 
other side of the road, going in the opposite direction. The idea of me 
being on the road incensed his delicate sensibilities of right and wrong. 
Many motorists harbor this feeling to some degree.

On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 1:18:07 PM UTC-5, PaulS wrote:
>
> “Why can’t they be more respectful? Why do they take up the whole road? 
> Why do they blow through stop signs??!” Which are all legitimate 
> frustrations. There are a LOT of inconsiderate cyclists out there. I see it 
> as a driver. Of course, flip all of this when I’m around cyclists. 
>
> But not one party is right. There are good drivers and bad ones. Same in 
> the cyclists world. So what to do? 
>
> What I’ve constantly advocated was more education. Both of cyclists and 
> motorists. I wouldn’t mind if cyclists had to be licensed or at least go 
> through a mandatory course on a regular basis. Simple as watching a video 
> online and printing a certificate. There are lots of cyclists who simply 
> don’t know the rules. Same with motorists. Can we not include some better 
> training when getting licensed? More than the “be sure to yield to cyclists 
> when possible” in the dmv manual today. But that will be a long time 
> coming. 
>
> This battle will continue which means we have to be more thoughtful in our 
> actions. Nonchalant attitude toward the rules will hurt more than help. We 
> can’t have this tit for tat mentality of, well, if they can text and drive, 
> I can ride wherever I want. If they can ride where they want, I can park in 
> the bike lane. .. Who wins here? Not us. 
>
> Of COURSE I value life more than obeying the letter of law. But really, is 
> breaking the law really unavoidable? Can one not walk the bike on the 
> sidewalk whether there are pedestrians or not? People driving by still 
> notice. Is it that hard to stop at stop signs? Throw up a hand signal when 
> turning? Just do what you can to be a better ambassador. 
>
> I’m a little surprised by having to defend this here. But at the same 
> time, not really, as it’s a common conversation with a lot of other 
> “cyclists“ I’ve run into. 
>
> Ride safe everyone. 
>
> On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 7:19:44 AM UTC-7, Mark Roland wrote: 
> > Regarding the legality of sidewalk riding, I used to be in the camp that 
> riding illegally on sidewalks gives bicyclists a bad name. And in fact, 
> lots of people who do ride on busy sidewalks can endanger pedestrians with 
> excess speed. Riding a bicycle doesn't turn jerks into considerate 
> citizens. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Over the years, though, I've changed my viewpoint. The main reason is 
> because, while in most places cyclists are supposedly considered "vehicles" 
> and supposedly have the same "rights and responsibilities" as other road 
> users, the real truth is that all of the laws, all of the infrastructure, 
> all of the traffic controls, were built almost exclusively for motor 
> vehicles (or to keep walkers from impeding motor vehicles), and we must 
> make do as best we can within a system that at best gives lip service to 
> human-powered transit. So I generally obey the rules. But I reserve the 
> right to opt out when they make no sense, or, more to the point, put me in 
> danger if I follow the rule rather than my instinct for survival. 
> > 
> > 
> > In this day and age, sadly, using a bicycle as a means  of transport for 
> things like shopping, going to school,

Re: [RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....


And that there is a LCS Clem L, so, like, twice the length of your average 
bicycle! In other words, one wde sidewalk;^)

On Friday, January 31, 2020 at 8:18:16 PM UTC-5, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:


>

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[RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

2020-02-01 Thread masmojo

For me in comes down to one very basic principle and that is the road ways
and everything associated with them were designed for *motor vehicles *simple
really. As a result they were not designed for me OR my bicycle. I am
forced to deal with a system that was not designed for me. So, If I take
liberties fine I've got to do whats good for me. I've been riding for as
long as I can remember pretty much and although the way I ride has changed
it's more of an evolution than anything. Over time I know what works and
what doesn't.

Even in situations where there's bike lanes, (Which I do use when it makes
sense) they were put in after the fact, problem we have here in Dallas is
there's insane numbers of people moving here and it's quickly overwhelming
our Infrastructure, roads especially. NOTE to people thinking about moving
here *Please don't* it's starting to really really Suck!

We ARE expanding bike trails and whatnot at a aggressive rate, but
unfortunately I think the perception of Bike trails in general is that they
are a Recreational resource; this mindset makes me a little crazy, Because,
people can walk, Run, Or even casually recreate on their bicycle just about
anywhere. If you are not going anywhere, you can go nowhere, just about
anyplace. A bike path should facilitate alternative transport and it will
be very effective at that if we keep that in mind. Don't build bike paths
from nowhere to nowhere. I am OK with people walking their dogs or
whatever, but 9 times out of 10 I am using the bikepath or trail for
Transportation, as a practical tool, putting tax dollars to functional use,
decreasing traffic for the other people who are not so inclined. Is it
wrong for me to expect a little consideration? I don't think so; I try to
work with the cars, the traffic in a collaborative fashion, you give me a
little space and I'll give you a little space, etc.

Fortunately, on my 16 mile one way ride to work, roughly half of it is on a
bike path, another 4ish miles are residential/lightly traveled streets, but
balance is sidewalks. No biggie really, I don't think riding a bike on the
sidewalk is technically legal, but it's kind of understood that it's the
only safe option. The only place I've ever caught any grief for riding on
the sidewalk was Guadalupe St. in Austin, but that was 30 years ago.

So, Yeah, I don't know why I had to unpack all that, but do what's good for
you on or off your, bike; I'm not going to judge.

But, the whole riding on the sidewalk is against the law argument, just
kinda gets me fired up. It's one thing if you live in NYC, SF or maybe
Chicago, but just about anywhere else in this country it's frequently your
best option. I try to be courteous, because I think it's in my best
interest, but we cannot continue to grow automotive use, sadly it's not
sustainable.
Bike commuting is growing here, despite the ever shrinking availability of
shops catering to cyclist, that should be a sign.
I expect Ebike commuting to Double in 2020 and probably every year after
that.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

I appreciate the support, but If you mean you regularly ride against 
traffic, that may appear as though it is "safer" but it assuredly is not. 
If done now and then on a short wide road to avoid a lengthy or potentially 
dangerous go-around, perhaps (sidewalk might be best in this case). 

You could argue any bending of the rules will lead to anarchy, I don't 
think that is the case. Habitually riding against traffic would in fact 
induce anarchy if a reasonable portion of cyclists decided that was a good 
idea in the belief it was safer.

On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 11:50:36 AM UTC-5, Ahmed Elgasseir wrote:
>
> I agree with Mark - “so might as well take a few prerogatives!” To that 
> end, and at the risk of sounding even more like a guy “giving cyclists a 
> bad name”, I routinely “salmon” cycle up the street in the opposite 
> direction of the cars. 
> I’ve been shoved off the road too many times, and hit once, by cars not 
> paying attention, texting, or even just driving vindictively. I’d rather 
> see what is coming, pull over for oncoming cyclists when needed and live to 
> ride another day. 
>
> Ahmed in Sillycon Valley 
>
> On Sat, Feb 1, 2020 at 7:06 AM Kent Peterson -- Eugene, Oregon <
> kent...@gmail.com > wrote:
>
>> On the subject of sidewalk riding, I wrote this back in 2011. I think it 
>> still holds up.
>>
>>
>> https://kentsbike.blogspot.com/2011/12/pounced-with-fire-on-flaming-roads.html
>>
>> Kent Peterson
>> Eugene, OR USA
>>
>> -- 
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>> .
>>
> -- 
>
> *Ahmed Elgasseir*
>
> Department Chair, Visual and Performing Arts
>
>
> *Castilleja School* 
>
> 1310 Bryant Street 
> 
>
> Palo Alto, CA 94301 
> 
>
>
> P (415) 654-7977
>
> E aelga...@castilleja.org 
>
> www.castilleja.org   
>
>
> Follow us on Instagram  | 
> Facebook  | Twitter 
>  | LinkedIn 
> 
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

2020-02-01 Thread Nick Lindsey

Paul,

I'm the same age as Bill and feel exactly as  he does.  Still sharp on the bike 
versus the car.  I commute daily and on the weekends have "joy rides" with my 
wife on road bikesoften in high-traffic areas.  We both frequently remind 
each other to ride (very) defensively and then focus on holding our lines, 
always expecting the unexpected from cars and sometimes a fellow cyclist.   
Perhaps if you found a riding partner or went out with a friendly group would 
alleviate the apprehension?  

Wishing you well,
Nick (N Cal)

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 31, 2020, at 6:56 PM, Bill Schairer  wrote:
> 
> Paul, my guess is that had you been 100 ft closer to the intersection you 
> would have sensed that something was not right (probably hearing a car coming 
> and that it wasn’t slowing) and reacted in such a way that you were not 
> creamed.  Even the driver may have acted differently, not that I’m assuming 
> so.  Honestly, I fear other cyclists more than I fear motorists.  Grabbing a 
> number out of thin air, I suspect 90% of them around here pay no attention to 
> traffic laws.  If they stop at stop signs or red lights, it is only because 
> traffic is too heavy to just blow through.  What I am finding interesting at 
> 66 is that I have lost some confidence in my reactions, senses etc while 
> driving but not while biking.  I’m trying to figure that one out but, as a 
> result, almost all my solo transportation is by bike.  At least if I screw up 
> I’m less likely to kill somebody else.
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

2020-02-01 Thread PaulS

In my area, as I’m sure in most areas, the struggle between cyclists and 
motorists is very apparent. Include pedestrians, joggers, and other users of 
the road as well. (I won’t even get into the explosion of ebikes as of late). 
The relationship doesn’t seem to be getting better, despite the fact there is a 
growing number of both cars and cyclists on the road, with no sign of slowing 
down anytime in the future. I get a constant reminder of this disparity when I 
am around my in-laws (who know I’m a cyclist so all the venting happens at 
family gatherings, typically at me), and non-cyclist friends. “Why can’t they 
be more respectful? Why do they take up the whole road? Why do they blow 
through stop signs??!” Which are all legitimate frustrations. There are a LOT 
of inconsiderate cyclists out there. I see it as a driver. Of course, flip all 
of this when I’m around cyclists. 

But not one party is right. There are good drivers and bad ones. Same in the 
cyclists world. So what to do? 

What I’ve constantly advocated was more education. Both of cyclists and 
motorists. I wouldn’t mind if cyclists had to be licensed or at least go 
through a mandatory course on a regular basis. Simple as watching a video 
online and printing a certificate. There are lots of cyclists who simply don’t 
know the rules. Same with motorists. Can we not include some better training 
when getting licensed? More than the “be sure to yield to cyclists when 
possible” in the dmv manual today. But that will be a long time coming. 

This battle will continue which means we have to be more thoughtful in our 
actions. Nonchalant attitude toward the rules will hurt more than help. We 
can’t have this tit for tat mentality of, well, if they can text and drive, I 
can ride wherever I want. If they can ride where they want, I can park in the 
bike lane. .. Who wins here? Not us. 

Of COURSE I value life more than obeying the letter of law. But really, is 
breaking the law really unavoidable? Can one not walk the bike on the sidewalk 
whether there are pedestrians or not? People driving by still notice. Is it 
that hard to stop at stop signs? Throw up a hand signal when turning? Just do 
what you can to be a better ambassador. 

I’m a little surprised by having to defend this here. But at the same time, not 
really, as it’s a common conversation with a lot of other “cyclists“ I’ve run 
into. 

Ride safe everyone. 

On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 7:19:44 AM UTC-7, Mark Roland wrote:
> Regarding the legality of sidewalk riding, I used to be in the camp that 
> riding illegally on sidewalks gives bicyclists a bad name. And in fact, lots 
> of people who do ride on busy sidewalks can endanger pedestrians with excess 
> speed. Riding a bicycle doesn't turn jerks into considerate citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, though, I've changed my viewpoint. The main reason is 
> because, while in most places cyclists are supposedly considered "vehicles" 
> and supposedly have the same "rights and responsibilities" as other road 
> users, the real truth is that all of the laws, all of the infrastructure, all 
> of the traffic controls, were built almost exclusively for motor vehicles (or 
> to keep walkers from impeding motor vehicles), and we must make do as best we 
> can within a system that at best gives lip service to human-powered transit. 
> So I generally obey the rules. But I reserve the right to opt out when they 
> make no sense, or, more to the point, put me in danger if I follow the rule 
> rather than my instinct for survival.
> 
> 
> In this day and age, sadly, using a bicycle as a means  of transport for 
> things like shopping, going to school, social visits, errands, essentially 
> puts you in the role of a revolutionary dissident to begin with, so might as 
> well take a few prerogatives!;^)
> 
> On Friday, January 31, 2020 at 8:18:16 PM UTC-5, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

2020-02-01 Thread Buck Flagg

Props to all who have posted here for their thoughtful responses. I am a near 
62-year old cyclist who has been a daily bike commuter for over thirty years 
here in New York City and before that in DC. My particular take in the 
driver/cyclist dynamic is that most of the inroads we cyclists have made into 
the consciousness if drivers, and they are not insignificant, have been largely 
wiped out by the proliferation if devices in cars that distract the driver. 
It's really a scourge. On January 16, the driver of a pickup truck on Eleventh 
Avenue in the far west side of Manhattan entered an old intersection well after 
his light had turned red and t-boned me pulling me and my beloved Rivbike 
underneath the front end of his truck. I was very fortunate to escape with just 
scrapes 'n' dings. Reflecting on the many experiences recounted above I would 
have to say that it never occurred to me to stop riding. Not because I'm so 
tough, or feel entitled to my place in the line of traffic or anything else 
like that. More likely it's because, for better or worse, cycling is pretty 
central to who I am, as a person. Maybe more than most other things, I 
self-identify as a bicyclist. I'm not ready to let go of that, yet.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

2020-02-01 Thread Ahmed Elgasseir

I agree with Mark - “so might as well take a few prerogatives!” To that
end, and at the risk of sounding even more like a guy “giving cyclists a
bad name”, I routinely “salmon” cycle up the street in the opposite
direction of the cars.
I’ve been shoved off the road too many times, and hit once, by cars not
paying attention, texting, or even just driving vindictively. I’d rather
see what is coming, pull over for oncoming cyclists when needed and live to
ride another day.

Ahmed in Sillycon Valley

On Sat, Feb 1, 2020 at 7:06 AM Kent Peterson -- Eugene, Oregon <
kentsb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On the subject of sidewalk riding, I wrote this back in 2011. I think it
> still holds up.
>
>
> https://kentsbike.blogspot.com/2011/12/pounced-with-fire-on-flaming-roads.html
>
> Kent Peterson
> Eugene, OR USA
>
> --
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> .
>
-- 

*Ahmed Elgasseir*

Department Chair, Visual and Performing Arts


*Castilleja School*

1310 Bryant Street


Palo Alto, CA 94301



P (415) 654-7977

E aelgass...@castilleja.org

www.castilleja.org


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[RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

2020-02-01 Thread Kent Peterson -- Eugene, Oregon

On the subject of sidewalk riding, I wrote this back in 2011. I think it still 
holds up.

https://kentsbike.blogspot.com/2011/12/pounced-with-fire-on-flaming-roads.html

Kent Peterson
Eugene, OR USA

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[RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

2020-02-01 Thread Marc Irwin

I'm 67 and have been commuting, touring and club riding since I was 
20.  I think it has prevented my perception and reflexes from deteriorating 
as I've seen in others my age.  I think the occasional close call is a 
healthy reminder to pay attention and ride safely.   It will happen but I 
remind myself that I engage hundreds, if not thousands of drivers on a 
daily basis and the overwhelming majority are overly cautious.  Everyday I 
have to signal somebody to take the right of way rather than yield to me 
when they shouldn't.  The rude drivers or close calls occur (maybe) once in 
a few weeks.  That being said, it is always best to use any bike lane, MUP 
or infrastructure when it's available.You can have the spinning classes 
if you want, sitting still on a bike is no fun for me.

Marc


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Re: [RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

Regarding the legality of sidewalk riding, I used to be in the camp that 
riding illegally on sidewalks gives bicyclists a bad name. And in fact, 
lots of people who do ride on busy sidewalks can endanger pedestrians with 
excess speed. Riding a bicycle doesn't turn jerks into considerate citizens.

Over the years, though, I've changed my viewpoint. The main reason is 
because, while in most places cyclists are supposedly considered "vehicles" 
and supposedly have the same "rights and responsibilities" as other road 
users, the real truth is that all of the laws, all of the infrastructure, 
all of the traffic controls, were built almost exclusively for motor 
vehicles (or to keep walkers from impeding motor vehicles), and we must 
make do as best we can within a system that at best gives lip service to 
human-powered transit. So I generally obey the rules. But I reserve the 
right to opt out when they make no sense, or, more to the point, put me in 
danger if I follow the rule rather than my instinct for survival.

In this day and age, sadly, using a bicycle as a means  of transport for 
things like shopping, going to school, social visits, errands, essentially 
puts you in the role of a revolutionary dissident to begin with, so might 
as well take a few prerogatives!;^)

On Friday, January 31, 2020 at 8:18:16 PM UTC-5, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

2020-02-01 Thread PaulS

A number of my friends are on Peleton/Zwift during the winter months. They get 
a ride in as well as socializing with friends. Plus you get to ride in cities 
all over the world. It wouldn’t be a bad option. 

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[RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

2020-02-01 Thread tc

Paul,
I don't think you're overreacting. Getting a spinner sounds like a good
plan to me, because you yourself thought of it, and it must feel like the
right thing for you at this point in time! Everyone has their own measure
for 'safety', and you're certainly entitled to yours. I choose not to ride
more than a mile radius from my house on the roads because it doesn't feel
safe. I also have 2 cyclist friends who've been in serious accidents.
Though I've lost touch with one of them, the other still rides, but only in
large groups, and more so on paved greenways these days. Speaking of
greenways, we're fortunate in Raleigh to have over 100 miles of paved
greenways; they're building more, and connecting more, each year. It's so
nice not to have to worry about traffic; you can enjoy the views, the
bridges over water, and wildlife that you just don't see that often on the
roads (or have the opportunity to pay attention to since you're trying not
to get hit). I wasn't clear from your post whether you have greenways
available and you just choose not to ride them, or, they're not available.
If the former, that might be a nice way to slip back into riding. Whatever
you choose, best wishes!

Tom

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[RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

2020-02-01 Thread PG

Thank you all for the thoughtful and measured responses. I have read and 
considered each one of them.

Right at this moment, I'm inclined to sell my Soma San Marcos -- which I 
love -- and get a high end spinner. I don't want to lose my fitness, and I 
like the feeling of peddling. (Selling my bike would prevent me from going 
out now and then.)

The area I live in is pretty backward. There are a number of cyclists, but 
also lots of harassment from drivers while riding...mostly from young white 
males in pickup trucks. It can get pretty chippy sometimes, to the point 
where a confrontation isn't out of the question. I only point this out 
because drivers around here aren't inclined to give riders a break. Several 
cyclists have been killed in recent years, caused by distracted drivers 
hititng them from behind, which is something that no amount of situational 
awareness can prevent.

Thanks again...


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Re: [RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

2020-01-31 Thread Bill Schairer

Paul, my guess is that had you been 100 ft closer to the intersection you would 
have sensed that something was not right (probably hearing a car coming and 
that it wasn’t slowing) and reacted in such a way that you were not creamed.  
Even the driver may have acted differently, not that I’m assuming so.  
Honestly, I fear other cyclists more than I fear motorists.  Grabbing a number 
out of thin air, I suspect 90% of them around here pay no attention to traffic 
laws.  If they stop at stop signs or red lights, it is only because traffic is 
too heavy to just blow through.  What I am finding interesting at 66 is that I 
have lost some confidence in my reactions, senses etc while driving but not 
while biking.  I’m trying to figure that one out but, as a result, almost all 
my solo transportation is by bike.  At least if I screw up I’m less likely to 
kill somebody else.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

Paul, I hardly give cyclists a bad name. Quite the opposite. 

It’s not my style to be mad at complete strangers on the Internet, so I’m not 
going to be. You have yourself a nice weekend. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 31, 2020, at 4:51 PM, PaulS  wrote:
> 
> “ Las Vegas municipal laws prohibit riding a bicycle on the sidewalk within 
> city limits – including on the Strip.“
> 
> Nevada may not specifically state no sidewalk riding, but each 
> city/municipalities have their own ordinances. For instance, in Vegas, no 
> riding within city limits. Check your local laws. 
> 
> Common sense. Some laws do not go hand in hand with common sense. Don’t like 
> it? Tell your city officials instead of giving cyclists a bad name. 
> 
>> On Friday, January 31, 2020 at 5:39:36 PM UTC-7, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>> Sidewalk riding is legal in Nevada. If there is a bike lane (rarely, where I 
>> ride), you are supposed to bike in it. If I am on a fast-moving road and 
>> there’s an unprotected bike lane and there are also no pedestrians in sight 
>> - I ride on the sidewalk. The sidewalks are wide here, maybe 7 or 8 feet 
>> wide. 
>> 
>> 
>>  I rarely encounter pedestrians. People aren’t walking, they are driving in 
>> this car-centric state. (I rode 8 miles today; I saw 3 pedestrians on the 
>> path. I walked my bike around them.) If I have the choice between an empty, 
>> paved wide sidewalk or cars whizzing past me at 45 mph in an unprotected 
>> bike lane, I’m choosing the sidewalk every time.
>> 
>> 
>> You call it bad form. I call it common sense. 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On Jan 31, 2020, at 4:19 PM, PaulS  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I've had lots of close calls as well.  Now, I primarily ride dirt/gravel.  
>> You should try it.  Early (5am) road rides are ok as well.
>> 
>> 
>> And please do not ride on the sidewalk.  Very bad form and as someone said, 
>> illegal in most areas.  In my state, if there is no bike lane or shoulder, 
>> you can legally ride in the car lane.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
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>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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Re: [RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

I live in Northern California. Everyone not living in N. CA. thinks I live in 
San Francisco. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

I don’t live in Vegas.

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 31, 2020, at 4:51 PM, PaulS  wrote:
> 
> “ Las Vegas municipal laws prohibit riding a bicycle on the sidewalk within 
> city limits – including on the Strip.“
> 
> Nevada may not specifically state no sidewalk riding, but each 
> city/municipalities have their own ordinances. For instance, in Vegas, no 
> riding within city limits. Check your local laws. 
> 
> Common sense. Some laws do not go hand in hand with common sense. Don’t like 
> it? Tell your city officials instead of giving cyclists a bad name. 
> 
>> On Friday, January 31, 2020 at 5:39:36 PM UTC-7, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>> Sidewalk riding is legal in Nevada. If there is a bike lane (rarely, where I 
>> ride), you are supposed to bike in it. If I am on a fast-moving road and 
>> there’s an unprotected bike lane and there are also no pedestrians in sight 
>> - I ride on the sidewalk. The sidewalks are wide here, maybe 7 or 8 feet 
>> wide. 
>> 
>> 
>>  I rarely encounter pedestrians. People aren’t walking, they are driving in 
>> this car-centric state. (I rode 8 miles today; I saw 3 pedestrians on the 
>> path. I walked my bike around them.) If I have the choice between an empty, 
>> paved wide sidewalk or cars whizzing past me at 45 mph in an unprotected 
>> bike lane, I’m choosing the sidewalk every time.
>> 
>> 
>> You call it bad form. I call it common sense. 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On Jan 31, 2020, at 4:19 PM, PaulS  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I've had lots of close calls as well.  Now, I primarily ride dirt/gravel.  
>> You should try it.  Early (5am) road rides are ok as well.
>> 
>> 
>> And please do not ride on the sidewalk.  Very bad form and as someone said, 
>> illegal in most areas.  In my state, if there is no bike lane or shoulder, 
>> you can legally ride in the car lane.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

2020-01-31 Thread PaulS

“ Las Vegas municipal laws prohibit riding a bicycle on the sidewalk within 
city limits – including on the Strip.“

Nevada may not specifically state no sidewalk riding, but each 
city/municipalities have their own ordinances. For instance, in Vegas, no 
riding within city limits. Check your local laws. 

Common sense. Some laws do not go hand in hand with common sense. Don’t like 
it? Tell your city officials instead of giving cyclists a bad name. 

On Friday, January 31, 2020 at 5:39:36 PM UTC-7, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:
> Sidewalk riding is legal in Nevada. If there is a bike lane (rarely, where I 
> ride), you are supposed to bike in it. If I am on a fast-moving road and 
> there’s an unprotected bike lane and there are also no pedestrians in sight - 
> I ride on the sidewalk. The sidewalks are wide here, maybe 7 or 8 feet wide. 
> 
> 
>  I rarely encounter pedestrians. People aren’t walking, they are driving in 
> this car-centric state. (I rode 8 miles today; I saw 3 pedestrians on the 
> path. I walked my bike around them.) If I have the choice between an empty, 
> paved wide sidewalk or cars whizzing past me at 45 mph in an unprotected bike 
> lane, I’m choosing the sidewalk every time.
> 
> 
> You call it bad form. I call it common sense. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On Jan 31, 2020, at 4:19 PM, PaulS  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> I've had lots of close calls as well.  Now, I primarily ride dirt/gravel.  
> You should try it.  Early (5am) road rides are ok as well.
> 
> 
> And please do not ride on the sidewalk.  Very bad form and as someone said, 
> illegal in most areas.  In my state, if there is no bike lane or shoulder, 
> you can legally ride in the car lane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

"Sidewalk" denotes a myriad of different things in different places. I've seen 
the sidewalk Leah is referencing in videos she'd posted on Instagram, and it's 
as wide as streets in Berkeley I drive to go visit my daughter. There's one 
like that near Riv HQ, too, which you HAVE to use part-way to get from there to 
Mt. Diablo..there's no bike lane and the 3-lane 45mph street is madness. 

So let's take it easy on all the "illegal" talk, the conversation is about 
being nervous on the bike and ways to alleviate or eliminate that issue. Or not 
ride at all. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

Sidewalk riding is legal in Nevada. If there is a bike lane (rarely, where I 
ride), you are supposed to bike in it. If I am on a fast-moving road and 
there’s an unprotected bike lane and there are also no pedestrians in sight - I 
ride on the sidewalk. The sidewalks are wide here, maybe 7 or 8 feet wide. 

 I rarely encounter pedestrians. People aren’t walking, they are driving in 
this car-centric state. (I rode 8 miles today; I saw 3 pedestrians on the path. 
I walked my bike around them.) If I have the choice between an empty, paved 
wide sidewalk or cars whizzing past me at 45 mph in an unprotected bike lane, 
I’m choosing the sidewalk every time.

You call it bad form. I call it common sense. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 31, 2020, at 4:19 PM, PaulS  wrote:
> 
> 
> I've had lots of close calls as well.  Now, I primarily ride dirt/gravel.  
> You should try it.  Early (5am) road rides are ok as well.
> 
> And please do not ride on the sidewalk.  Very bad form and as someone said, 
> illegal in most areas.  In my state, if there is no bike lane or shoulder, 
> you can legally ride in the car lane.
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Re: [RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

2020-01-31 Thread Steve Palincsar




On 1/31/20 6:52 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:

"Be extremely careful at intersections.  You're not where drivers expect you to 
be..."

I've found this to be true as a pedestrian, too. Drivers just don't seem to 
expect anyone to be walking!



Maybe, but it's far worse when you're moving at three times the speed of 
a pedestrian.  Consider a + intersection.  You're driving, heading 
north.  You look right, clear.  Look left, clear.  In the one second or 
less between looking right and this instant there's no way a pedestrian 
could possibly have gotten to the intersection, so you hit the gas and 
voila, there's the cyclist in front of your grill.  How'd that happen?  
In that second or less, a cyclist moving at 3X the speed of a pedestrian 
-- say 12-14 mph, not at all extraordinary speed for a cyclist -- could 
easily travel the 10 yards from "there's nothing there" to "hood ornament".






--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

Which is why I said I slow up or stop at every intersection and I make eye 
contact with drivers. So far so good. 

Let me reiterate: Do I ride on sidewalks all the time? No. If there are 
pedestrians I walk the bike. Not if there are MUPs - there often are. Not if 
it’s a quiet neighborhood. I will take bike lanes in places that are 35 mph or 
less. 

It works surprisingly well. 


Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 31, 2020, at 3:50 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
> 
> 
> Be extremely careful at intersections.  You're not where drivers expect you 
> to be, you're going much faster than pedestrians would be going, and you may 
> be going in an unexpected direction.  All this adds up to a much better 
> chance of a collision at an intersection than you might think.
> 
> On 1/31/20 6:24 PM, Leah Peterson wrote:
>> So is texting and driving (illegal), but it’s rampant. So I’ll use my common 
>> sense over obeying the rarely enforced sidewalk law. I’ll chance a ticket 
>> over a funeral.
>> 
>> I rode on a main thoroughfare today on the sidewalk. By the police station. 
>> With police passing by. I should technically be using that bike lane, but 
>> not a soul was using the sidewalk, so nobody - including the police - cared 
>> one whit. I went on my merry way.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jan 31, 2020, at 3:07 PM, "bruce.herbit...@gmail.com" 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Riding on the side wallks is illegal where I live, unless the sidewalk is 
>>> part of signed multi-use pathway. I'm active in working to make our streets 
>>> safer for cyclists and pedestrians when they are crossing them.
>>> 
>>> On Friday, January 31, 2020, 04:58:54 PM CST, Leah Peterson 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I agree with Mas about sidewalks. If the sidewalks are clear, use ‘em. 
>>> 
>> 
> -- 
> Steve Palincsar
> Alexandria, Virginia 
> USA
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Re: [RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

2020-01-31 Thread PaulS

I've had lots of close calls as well.  Now, I primarily ride dirt/gravel.  
You should try it.  Early (5am) road rides are ok as well.

*And please do not ride on the sidewalk*.  Very bad form and as someone 
said, illegal in most areas.  In my state, if there is no bike lane or 
shoulder, you can legally ride in the car lane.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

"Be extremely careful at intersections.  You're not where drivers expect you to 
be..."

I've found this to be true as a pedestrian, too. Drivers just don't seem to 
expect anyone to be walking!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

2020-01-31 Thread Steve Palincsar

Be extremely careful at intersections. You're not where drivers expect
you to be, you're going much faster than pedestrians would be going, and
you may be going in an unexpected direction. All this adds up to a much
better chance of a collision at an intersection than you might think.

On 1/31/20 6:24 PM, Leah Peterson wrote:
So is texting and driving (illegal), but it’s rampant. So I’ll use my
common sense over obeying the rarely enforced sidewalk law. I’ll
chance a ticket over a funeral.

I rode on a main thoroughfare today on the sidewalk. By the police
station. With police passing by. I should technically be using that
bike lane, but not a soul was using the sidewalk, so nobody -
including the police - cared one whit. I went on my merry way.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 31, 2020, at 3:07 PM, "bruce.herbit...@gmail.com"
wrote:

Riding on the side wallks is illegal where I live, unless the
sidewalk is part of signed multi-use pathway. I'm active in working
to make our streets safer for cyclists and pedestrians when they are
crossing them.

On Friday, January 31, 2020, 04:58:54 PM CST, Leah Peterson
wrote:

I agree with Mas about sidewalks. If the sidewalks are clear, use ‘em.

--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

Re: [RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

If you're crowding pedestrians and being a nuisance, the cops will kick you off 
the sidewalk. Clearly that's not you and they have better things to do. Like 
pull over morons texting and driving. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

So is texting and driving (illegal), but it’s rampant. So I’ll use my common 
sense over obeying the rarely enforced sidewalk law. I’ll chance a ticket over 
a funeral.

I rode on a main thoroughfare today on the sidewalk. By the police station. 
With police passing by. I should technically be using that bike lane, but not a 
soul was using the sidewalk, so nobody - including the police - cared one whit. 
I went on my merry way.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 31, 2020, at 3:07 PM, "bruce.herbit...@gmail.com" 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Riding on the side wallks is illegal where I live, unless the sidewalk is 
> part of signed multi-use pathway. I'm active in working to make our streets 
> safer for cyclists and pedestrians when they are crossing them.
> 
> On Friday, January 31, 2020, 04:58:54 PM CST, Leah Peterson 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I agree with Mas about sidewalks. If the sidewalks are clear, use ‘em. 
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[RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

2020-01-31 Thread PG



On Friday, January 31, 2020 at 11:59:58 AM UTC-8, George Schick wrote:
>
>
>
> "You just can't be absolutely certain of anything out there, eye contact 
> or not."
>

This is part of why I'm thinking of giving it up. No amount of care can 
overcome the behavior of every driver.  Sooner or later


PG

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

2020-01-31 Thread bruce.herbit...@gmail.com

 Riding on the side wallks is illegal where I live, unless the sidewalk is part 
of signed multi-use pathway. I'm active in working to make our streets safer 
for cyclists and pedestrians when they are crossing them.
On Friday, January 31, 2020, 04:58:54 PM CST, Leah Peterson 
 wrote:  
 
 I agree with Mas about sidewalks. If the sidewalks are clear, use ‘em.   

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

I agree with Mas about sidewalks. If the sidewalks are clear, use ‘em. If I am 
on the sidewalk and I encounter a walker (rare), I will jump off and walk the 
bike. Unless it’s an extra-wide one that is made to be shared. Then I just slow 
way down and smile and wave.

I don’t want to hear “riding on sidewalks is more dangerous for you” or “you 
should be on the road because it’s your right” or “get cars used to bikes on 
the road.” Uh uh. No. If you planned to say that, just don’t. I am not a car. I 
am not going to pretend to be a car. I have two boys often riding with me. And 
when there’s a safe option for me and them to ride separate from cars that 
won’t negatively impact anyone else - I’m taking it. And I KNOW the drivers 
here appreciate it. Bikes make them nervous. Cars make me nervous. It’s nice to 
have a separation. And if you live where you aren’t disturbing pedestrians, I 
say no guilt.

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 31, 2020, at 2:24 PM, masmojo  wrote:
> 
> Actually, I've been thinking about this a lot lately! I'm only 57, but I 
> can't go like I used to; when I was 20 my strategy was to ride offensively; 
> in other words I made a spectacle out of myself by riding, ah, well, maybe 
> flamboyantly is a good word? A whole mess of activity.
> I knew a girl who was riding on Fondren in Houston crossing Westheimer (all 
> 10 lanes of it) when a car ran the light hit her & threw her over 100 feet. 
> Somehow she lived, spent 6 months in traction, left with one leg shorter than 
> the other. Wisely, she decided to hang up riding.
> Last time I was in Houston my friend who owns a shop there commented that 
> many of his long time customers had taken to riding predominantly on the 
> sidewalks and or bike paths, because since the cell phone, they don't trust 
> people to be paying attention! I confess that's basically what I do. You 
> won't often catch me riding on any road that's over 2 lanes. Residential & 
> side streets only. 
> It's not just phones, basically anybody can get a driver's license these 
> days. I was saying the other day that it shouldn't be your God given right to 
> drive a car.  There's 3 things (maybe more) that any idiot can do, but that I 
> think people should have to pass an IQ test for. Vote, serve on a jury & 
> drive a car! If you can't tell me what 40% of a dollar is off the top of your 
> head you have no business doing any one of those 3 things. There's too much 
> at stake! Actually, 4 things, add buy a gun to that list! 
> But, at the end of the day you can't cower in your living room watching Fox 
> News and feeding on paranoia! If you lived this long you've done pretty well, 
> get a can of fluorescent orange paint, spray yourself & your bike and ride 
> flamboyantly!!! 
> 
> LOL 酪
> 
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[RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

2020-01-31 Thread masmojo

Actually, I've been thinking about this a lot lately! I'm only 57, but I can't
go like I used to; when I was 20 my strategy was to ride offensively; in other
words I made a spectacle out of myself by riding, ah, well, maybe flamboyantly
is a good word? A whole mess of activity.
I knew a girl who was riding on Fondren in Houston crossing Westheimer (all 10
lanes of it) when a car ran the light hit her & threw her over 100 feet.
Somehow she lived, spent 6 months in traction, left with one leg shorter than
the other. Wisely, she decided to hang up riding.
Last time I was in Houston my friend who owns a shop there commented that many
of his long time customers had taken to riding predominantly on the sidewalks
and or bike paths, because since the cell phone, they don't trust people to be
paying attention! I confess that's basically what I do. You won't often catch
me riding on any road that's over 2 lanes. Residential & side streets only.
It's not just phones, basically anybody can get a driver's license these days.
I was saying the other day that it shouldn't be your God given right to drive a
car. There's 3 things (maybe more) that any idiot can do, but that I think
people should have to pass an IQ test for. Vote, serve on a jury & drive a car!
If you can't tell me what 40% of a dollar is off the top of your head you have
no business doing any one of those 3 things. There's too much at stake!
Actually, 4 things, add buy a gun to that list!
But, at the end of the day you can't cower in your living room watching Fox
News and feeding on paranoia! If you lived this long you've done pretty well,
get a can of fluorescent orange paint, spray yourself & your bike and ride
flamboyantly!!!

LOL 酪

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[RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

2020-01-31 Thread Mark Roland

Yes, except it is fear that has killed his *urge*, due to an experience in 
which he imagined what might have happened if he had been 100 feet closer 
to someone who went through a stop sign, and his own physical challenges. 
He is asking if he is overreacting, and if other iBobs have dealt with 
this, and, presumably, how. If he had no *interest* in ever riding again, 
why would he be asking for our experiences? If I got to that point and 
reached out for thoughts on iBoB  I suppose I would hope that I would 
receive some non-judgmental encouragement. Which he has. I think he would 
be ill served if we all said, cool, Paul, don't ride any more. Instead, we 
said, here are some things you can do, but if you don't want to, that's 
cool.

On Friday, January 31, 2020 at 3:32:01 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Most of the responses appear to be recommendations and encouragement on 
> how to manage the risks associated with cycling and the fear of those 
> risks.  Maybe that's the important part for the OP.  My main takeaway was 
> that the OP hasn't ridden for months and has no urge to ride.  If you don't 
> feel like riding a bicycle, don't ride a bicycle.  I used to golf a lot and 
> I haven't golfed in months and I have no urge to golf, so I don't golf.  I 
> have plenty of other things to do with my time and I'm sure the OP has 
> plenty of things to do with his time.  To paraphrase Yogi Berra "If Paul 
> doesn't want to ride his bike, nobody's going to stop him"
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 4:34:28 PM UTC-8, PG wrote:
>>
>> I'm turning 67 in a week, and haven't ridden in a couple of months. The 
>> last time out, a woman blew a stop sign at an intersection -- presumably 
>> while texting, base on her body language -- and if I'd been 100 feet closer 
>> to the intersection, I would have been creamed. I shook for a couple of 
>> days afterwards, and haven't been motivated to go out since. As with most 
>> of us, this isn't an isolated incident.
>>
>> My instinct is to quit riding. A couple things are behind that. Because 
>> of my age, my reflexes, depth perception, and general eyesight are in 
>> decline. 
>>
>> I only ride on the road, as mountain and trail riding don't appeal to me. 
>> I guess I could start spinning at home to keep my fitness level up. 
>>
>> I know the odds are that I will be fine, but even a minor accident would 
>> take months to recover from. A major accident could result in permanent 
>> damage.
>>
>> Am I overreacting? It's been several months and I've had no urge to ride 
>> again.
>>
>>
>> Paul
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....

2020-01-31 Thread 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch

Bill, your response tripped me knuckle headed brain to remember a few other 
bits I wanted to say, as well as a few new ones:

- Writing in to a bike group inherently has a "I want to ride but have this 
challenge" component to it. Absolutely, if riding is no longer fun or 
desired and non-essential for transport, don't ride. Problem solved. Grin.
- On my "hard" brain days, I can't imagine riding. I ride when I can, and 
don't when I can't. For me, the first clue that I might b e able to ride on 
a given day is that I can imagine doing so. Some of those day, I don't get 
farther than getting to the gate, or the bridge just down the road, or... 
and that works too.
- Short rides are excellent rides.
- route finding is an adventure of it's own. I want to get to "B" from "A", 
but I have no desire to put up with road Q or intersection R. What back 
ro9ads, trails, MUPS, etc regardless of going "out of my way" can I take 
and eliminate or at least minimize those challenge points?
- I ride when it's fun, and don't when it isn't. This inherently involves 
some attitude adjustment on challenging points of some rides.

Whatever you choose, Paul, enjoy!

With abandon,
Patrick

On Friday, January 31, 2020 at 1:32:01 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Most of the responses appear to be recommendations and encouragement on 
> how to manage the risks associated with cycling and the fear of those 
> risks.  Maybe that's the important part for the OP.  My main takeaway was 
> that the OP hasn't ridden for months and has no urge to ride.  If you don't 
> feel like riding a bicycle, don't ride a bicycle.  I used to golf a lot and 
> I haven't golfed in months and I have no urge to golf, so I don't golf.  I 
> have plenty of other things to do with my time and I'm sure the OP has 
> plenty of things to do with his time.  To paraphrase Yogi Berra "If Paul 
> doesn't want to ride his bike, nobody's going to stop him"
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 4:34:28 PM UTC-8, PG wrote:
>>
>> I'm turning 67 in a week, and haven't ridden in a couple of months. The 
>> last time out, a woman blew a stop sign at an intersection -- presumably 
>> while texting, base on her body language -- and if I'd been 100 feet closer 
>> to the intersection, I would have been creamed. I shook for a couple of 
>> days afterwards, and haven't been motivated to go out since. As with most 
>> of us, this isn't an isolated incident.
>>
>> My instinct is to quit riding. A couple things are behind that. Because 
>> of my age, my reflexes, depth perception, and general eyesight are in 
>> decline. 
>>
>> I only ride on the road, as mountain and trail riding don't appeal to me. 
>> I guess I could start spinning at home to keep my fitness level up. 
>>
>> I know the odds are that I will be fine, but even a minor accident would 
>> take months to recover from. A major accident could result in permanent 
>> damage.
>>
>> Am I overreacting? It's been several months and I've had no urge to ride 
>> again.
>>
>>
>> Paul
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Thinking about cycling for me in the future....