Re: [RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
I've never been one to go on about how great whatever the Euros do is, but While visiting Spain in the Spring i was impressed how people would atke a stroll in the evening, as a family, and even more so on Sunday. Oddly enough, I ate ice cream, some times thrice daily, but at least every day, and came home 10 days later having lost 7 pounds. So exercise as a simple habit really does matter. RGZ On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 1:47 PM, CycloFiend cyclofi...@earthlink.net wrote: on 8/22/11 8:13 AM, Patrick in VT at swing4...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 21, 2:08 pm, Philip Williamson philip.william...@gmail.com wrote: The people I know who are in the best shape eat organic vegetables, some meat, some carbs. No GMOs, no fast food, no pre-packaged food. They exercise. That sounds about right. The only thing I'd add is that they cook. IMO, cooking is essential for anyone re-evaluating their relationship with food, health, diet, etc. Bingo. And some folks don't exercise per se, but they garden, walk errands, take stairs, hike with their dogs or some such thing. It's so damned easy to sit and be taken places, then make exercise some special thing on the list of TO-DO's. Play is important. - J -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Gallery updates now appear here - http://cyclofiend.blogspot.com I thought the idea was to waste the rest of our lives together.. -- Cyril, Breaking Away -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
On Aug 21, 2:08 pm, Philip Williamson philip.william...@gmail.com wrote: The people I know who are in the best shape eat organic vegetables, some meat, some carbs. No GMOs, no fast food, no pre-packaged food. They exercise. That sounds about right. The only thing I'd add is that they cook. IMO, cooking is essential for anyone re-evaluating their relationship with food, health, diet, etc. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
on 8/22/11 8:13 AM, Patrick in VT at swing4...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 21, 2:08 pm, Philip Williamson philip.william...@gmail.com wrote: The people I know who are in the best shape eat organic vegetables, some meat, some carbs. No GMOs, no fast food, no pre-packaged food. They exercise. That sounds about right. The only thing I'd add is that they cook. IMO, cooking is essential for anyone re-evaluating their relationship with food, health, diet, etc. Bingo. And some folks don't exercise per se, but they garden, walk errands, take stairs, hike with their dogs or some such thing. It's so damned easy to sit and be taken places, then make exercise some special thing on the list of TO-DO's. Play is important. - J -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Gallery updates now appear here - http://cyclofiend.blogspot.com I thought the idea was to waste the rest of our lives together.. -- Cyril, Breaking Away -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
On Aug 22, 2011, at 12:47 PM, CycloFiend wrote: on 8/22/11 8:13 AM, Patrick in VT at swing4...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 21, 2:08 pm, Philip Williamson philip.william...@gmail.com wrote: The people I know who are in the best shape eat organic vegetables, some meat, some carbs. No GMOs, no fast food, no pre-packaged food. They exercise. That sounds about right. The only thing I'd add is that they cook. IMO, cooking is essential for anyone re-evaluating their relationship with food, health, diet, etc. Bingo. And some folks don't exercise per se, but they garden, walk errands, take stairs, hike with their dogs or some such thing. It's so damned easy to sit and be taken places, then make exercise some special thing on the list of TO-DO's. Play is important. Bill Nye (“the Science Guy”): “Bicycling has to be a big part of the future. There’s something wrong with a society that drives a car to work out in a gym.” -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
Thanks, Charles. It seems that people take Taubes in a few different ways, and I haven't heard a lot of vegetable promotion from most of my Taubsian friends. From reading Good Calories, Bad Calories, I didn't get a Michael Pollan vibe at all. I eat mostly vegetarian, mostly locally, mostly seasonally, mostly made from scratch. I drink a lot of beer. I'm fat. I'm healthy. If my extra fat storage is beer, it fits both the calories in / calories out model and the carbs = fat model. The people I know who are in the best shape eat organic vegetables, some meat, some carbs. No GMOs, no fast food, no pre-packaged food. They exercise. I am not going to count carbs or calories, so it's easier for me to have simple rules like don't eat crap food, or eat less bread, or don't have seconds. After reading this thread, I'd pack a banana or nuts and berries or on longer bike rides. Today I'll stop and pick blackberries by the side of the road. Philip Philip Williamson www.philipwilliamson.com On Aug 20, 12:12 pm, charlie cl_v...@hotmail.com wrote: Yea Philip, I know the example wasn't the best and it is funny now that I think about it but Scott impresses me with his resolve and the thing at least for me is, I believe Scott eats a ton of veggies (I rarely did before now) and in spite of the focus on meat and fat in the Paleo/ Atkins blah, blah etc. way, the common factor is (or should be) vegetables in large quantities which many people do not eat enough of when they follow the above 'diets'. I believe veggies, fruits, nuts and berries were the original food (but that's a philosophical side issue) but I've always felt the best after a modest piece of protein and a huge salad coupled with an additional vegetable. Desserts when we have them are berries these days or some sort of fruit like apple slices or whatever. Like Grant, we make our own treats but I admit to the occasional micro serving of ice cream and like Scott, I loves my coffee and Phillip (Scott too) what can I say about beer 'the nectar of the gods' and wineI love it too but don't consume as much of either these days. Bicycling. I love to ride and would do it just for the fun of it if there were no benefit. It keeps me moving which is a biggie for me now that I'm nearing 53 and Philip.. it doesn't work as easily the older you get but YMMV. This general topic (exercise/diet/health) is interesting and pertinent to my life, glad it was posted ! On Aug 19, 9:53 am, Philip Williamson philip.william...@gmail.com wrote: No disrespect from me either, but citing a vegan as an example in a what would Taubes eat thread is funny to me. I've never been an over-excerciser. Every time I stop drinking beer and ride my bike as much as I like, I drop down to about 200 lbs (which is good). I'm at 240 now, and just started that again. Let's see if it works now that I'm 42. Philip Philip Williamsonwww.biketinker.com On Aug 18, 7:17 pm, charlie cl_v...@hotmail.com wrote: No disrespect here Rene' but maybe try not exercising so much..I know riding is enjoyable I love it but try to mix it up a little and if you are trying to lose fat, lift weights and do shorter rides. The plain facts I am almost 53 and 258 down from 282 with virtually no exercise due to weather and work. Been riding some lately but not enough to suit me. With my work demands and other factors, I can't ride two hours everyday without recovery time in between riding days. Over training will just make you tired and no amount (or type) of food will magically make you recover faster. Being young with good genetics and in great condition is the ultimate but if we aren't in one or all three categories we have to work smart not just hard. I think Scott C. went from 500+ to whatever he is now riding only 10+1 miles every day but probably sometimes more than that when he felt like it. The point is, don't bite off more than you can chew ! I have been an over exerciser in my life and I became frustrated that my progress slowed and my mood altered by overdoing it chronically. I suffered a few overuse injuries along the way that I still have to be careful of. These days I try to pace myself and don't even look for aerobic exercise to help me lose fat. I hope this helps in some way toward your goals. Keep at it, I am.. On Aug 17, 7:26 pm, René Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote: I'm definitely interested in losing weight and couldn't really care how fast I ride. I'm just unable at this time to sustain several days of riding for 2 hours each one and one day of rest doesn't seem to be enough. I'm not eating during my rides and only drink water. Trying to follow the low carb plan which I've gotten pretty good for the most part, but have yet to nail precisely for a prolonged time. I'm gluten free and now decided to go dairy free as
[RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
I started this thread a while ago, read all the replies, and figured - just eat fruit and see what happens. Did 55 mi yesterday, with about 6000' of climbing grinding it out Clydesdale style). (for those of you that know Sonoma County, rode Ft Ross Road out to the coast, down to Bodega Bay, then back over Coleman Valley Road into Occidental and Monte Rio). Drank water, ate bananas and dates, and felt great. All the fruit (and wool jacket) rode in the Brand V Handlebar Bag (just to ensure Rivendell content) Came home with with a Paleolithic-Bobish/RBWish halo tilted rakishly over my bald patch. Ok, ok, I had a slice of lasagna for dinner. So sue me. Today, back on protein powder and blueberries, and I feel great! I feel a lot less blown than I usually do the day after a hard ride. thanks everyone for an interesting discussion. RL -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
Loved your story in the Riv Reader Scott..I use the now out of production banana bag but also a Carradice for colder weather. I find myself doing something similar when commuting, I just fill my water bottles and don't take anything but my lunch to work (a modest piece of some kind of protein and a big salad) Usually one piece of fruit on the way home but since my diet change often not even that. I just don't get hungry as much now and can usually ride around 2 hours without doing anything different food wise whereas previously I would just eat back all the calories I had just burned while riding. On Aug 19, 2:38 pm, S.Cutshall clotht...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting thread (as was the other long'ish one on Taubes' book). I've read his book and was going to reply in that thread but thought better of it... and I've watched this thread and hit Reply a number of times only to then think, Ahh I like Jim and don't want to complicate his life, and thought better of it too. So here's what I will share (and it's really a moot point anyway because people is gonna believe -or be into- whatever it is they desire regardless of Point/Counterpoint). First: what I've learned in 5 years. People dig convenient answers to hard questions. (I did once too, but life doesn't always pan out that way so I had to find my own way) People -also- very much want to have those answers framed around what it is they already know, already enjoy. (and I would have too, probably ...but life didn't pan out that way for me either) Two: There is a great (think, Grand Canyon-sized) divide between Healthy and Fit. The Small die at a similar rate to the Big all the time. Three: I know much about what it takes to lose significant weight and keep it off, but even greater to that I know weight is a shell, that much like a suit when either in or out of it, reveals true numbers of Self, and Hard Work invested into Self. And those numbers do not lie. And I am not speaking of numbers lost with regard to pounds, as significant as they are or can be in any person's particular case... no, I am speaking to the numbers of Labs (blood work, etc). But far better though those, these kinds of numbers: good days (with hugs, smiles, the chance to move freely one's body under its own inertia) added onto a life that was unthinkably horrid, sad, lonely and professionally foretold as supposed to be Pushing Up Daisies a little over 5 years back. The books never reveal those kinds of numbers. Four: Me? I carry water and occasionally a banana (but that's only if my ride is above 30 miles or more)... and it's in a Carradice bag. Sorry. PS-- See Jim, I behaved. -Scott -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
Yea Philip, I know the example wasn't the best and it is funny now that I think about it but Scott impresses me with his resolve and the thing at least for me is, I believe Scott eats a ton of veggies (I rarely did before now) and in spite of the focus on meat and fat in the Paleo/ Atkins blah, blah etc. way, the common factor is (or should be) vegetables in large quantities which many people do not eat enough of when they follow the above 'diets'. I believe veggies, fruits, nuts and berries were the original food (but that's a philosophical side issue) but I've always felt the best after a modest piece of protein and a huge salad coupled with an additional vegetable. Desserts when we have them are berries these days or some sort of fruit like apple slices or whatever. Like Grant, we make our own treats but I admit to the occasional micro serving of ice cream and like Scott, I loves my coffee and Phillip (Scott too) what can I say about beer 'the nectar of the gods' and wineI love it too but don't consume as much of either these days. Bicycling. I love to ride and would do it just for the fun of it if there were no benefit. It keeps me moving which is a biggie for me now that I'm nearing 53 and Philip.. it doesn't work as easily the older you get but YMMV. This general topic (exercise/diet/health) is interesting and pertinent to my life, glad it was posted ! On Aug 19, 9:53 am, Philip Williamson philip.william...@gmail.com wrote: No disrespect from me either, but citing a vegan as an example in a what would Taubes eat thread is funny to me. I've never been an over-excerciser. Every time I stop drinking beer and ride my bike as much as I like, I drop down to about 200 lbs (which is good). I'm at 240 now, and just started that again. Let's see if it works now that I'm 42. Philip Philip Williamsonwww.biketinker.com On Aug 18, 7:17 pm, charlie cl_v...@hotmail.com wrote: No disrespect here Rene' but maybe try not exercising so much..I know riding is enjoyable I love it but try to mix it up a little and if you are trying to lose fat, lift weights and do shorter rides. The plain facts I am almost 53 and 258 down from 282 with virtually no exercise due to weather and work. Been riding some lately but not enough to suit me. With my work demands and other factors, I can't ride two hours everyday without recovery time in between riding days. Over training will just make you tired and no amount (or type) of food will magically make you recover faster. Being young with good genetics and in great condition is the ultimate but if we aren't in one or all three categories we have to work smart not just hard. I think Scott C. went from 500+ to whatever he is now riding only 10+1 miles every day but probably sometimes more than that when he felt like it. The point is, don't bite off more than you can chew ! I have been an over exerciser in my life and I became frustrated that my progress slowed and my mood altered by overdoing it chronically. I suffered a few overuse injuries along the way that I still have to be careful of. These days I try to pace myself and don't even look for aerobic exercise to help me lose fat. I hope this helps in some way toward your goals. Keep at it, I am.. On Aug 17, 7:26 pm, René Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote: I'm definitely interested in losing weight and couldn't really care how fast I ride. I'm just unable at this time to sustain several days of riding for 2 hours each one and one day of rest doesn't seem to be enough. I'm not eating during my rides and only drink water. Trying to follow the low carb plan which I've gotten pretty good for the most part, but have yet to nail precisely for a prolonged time. I'm gluten free and now decided to go dairy free as well, although not yet 100% but almost. Not sure what nuts I can or cannot eat, some days I eat a lot of fruit, some days very little. My meals are mostly meat/fish and salad/vegetables although I'm tempted to add hummus at night. Probably still eating quantities that are too large... Anyway, I've read Taubes and will give Sisson a good reading as well as I just skimmed it. I just wanted to get a sense for how best to address the feeling of weariness after riding several days in a row; is it just lack of conditioning and this will come over time? I ride almost all the time at 70 - 75% of Max HR except when mountain biking on weekends when during the steeper climbs I can hit 100% of Max HR. Will keep at it and see how it goes... the advise on this thread has been quite useful. René -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
Re: [RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
Keep the faith, brother. And oh yeah, Semper Fi! On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Leslie leslie.bri...@gmail.com wrote: I've been sittin' on the sidelines on this, but, I suppose I should pitch in a bit... Twenty years ago, I was a lean 19-yr-old, 6' tall, 150lb infantry Marine. Before then, I could eat anything, wouldn't gain a pound. When I got out several years later, I was more like 180lbs; heavier, but strong, square-built, was fine. But, married, two kids, entered grad school, ended up sitting on my duff, sedentary. By the time ten years had passed (ten years ago), I'd gotten up to... 280lbs. I still thought of myself as a skinny kid in my head, but was anything but. Finally, wanted to do something about, and I heard about how well low-carb worked for people, decided to try it. I didn't buy a book, or follow a particular menu; I just tried to not eat carbs. I'd started in at the beginning of March, and by the end of November, I was down to 200lbs. I thought, awesome. But, there between Thanksgiving and Christmas, a switch was thrown in my head. If I thought about not eating a roll, I found that I ate the basket of rolls. If I thought about not eating a donut at the coffee pot, I'd eat a dozen donuts. Want to pass on a piece of pie, I ate a pie. It was eerie. It was like there was some change in how I was wired. By the end of spring, I was up to about 230. And, there I stayed for five, six or so more years. I'd not paid close enough attention, my weight had crept back up, to about 260. I needed to get off my duff and try again. I started watching carbs again, and, this time, that's when I got back on a bike, after a long hiatus. I got down to 220, then would creep back up to 240, then back yoyo down to 230, back to 240... last Thanksgiving, I was 220 again, but by the end of New Years', was back up further, to 260; By March, I was down to 230; but I've since gotten to where I fluctuate between 235 and 240. It's hard; vegetables and meats are more expensive than carbs. I have a sweet tooth. I like beer. I do like the idea of eating nice salads and lean cuts of meat, but when the wife insists on having selections of cookies in the house, it's hard to not sneak one. When suppertime comes and it's pasta and potatoes, it's hard to skip dinner. The first time I lost all the weight, she was really supportive of it, but, what also didn't help my backsliding was that she realized she'd doubled our food budget, and decided to revert to more bread, potato, snacky stuff she was tired of not having bags of chips in the house, just to keep me from being tempted. So, in my house, it's a struggle. I want to get down under 200, but when my wife makes a point of saying she doesn't care if I'm over 250, then she opens up a bag of candy bars When I want to go for a bike-ride, but she says she wants to spend more time with me, but just wants to nap on the couch and watch TV to do so, it's hard to not be sedentary. I want her to be more active, too, but she doesn't want to... I want to live to a ripe old age, and she says she doesn't want to be an old woman, would be ready to kick the bucket sooner than later, especially if it meant she had to get off the couch, well. It's frustrating. + + + + The other day, the local paper ran an article. There was a ranking of metro areas and transportation conducted; at the bottom of the list, 3rd from last place for non-car infrastructure, was the Tri-Cities here. It's fact, I can't deny it. You can't get to work on a bus here; there's a bike trail here or there but using one to commute is hazardous. Mobile was 1st, I don't remember what was 2nd, but, basically, if you live here, you can't function w/o a car. I know I can't. I didn't used to think in terms of wanting to commute by bike; it really didn't bother me that it's a 40-min drive to the office. When I lived in Knoxville, I was less than 10-miles from my office, and it took an hour, w/ traffic; so for it to be 40-miles from driveway to parking lot at work, and take 40-minutes, I was thrilled it was 'that short' of a commute. I know lots of people that drive an hour and a half to work each day. It didn't bother me before, but, I didn't think about it before, either. It's risky to bike here. I and my kids, we go biking when we can. Yet, even my wife complains about the one fellow who rides home in the afternoons along Orebank Road. He has as much right as she does to the road, but she thinks he should get off the road, quit holding up cars. I can't argue w/ her, even if I think she's wrong, she's heck to live w/ if I do argue w/ her. But when the spouses and mothers of the bikers in town think bikes should go away, it's hard to see progress made in getting more people to bike. Sorry for venting, but, it's been starting to gnaw at me -- You received
Re: [RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
Grant, next time you come to Waterbury (I'm 15 min away) let me know and we'll go to the Ben and Jerry's factory. On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 10:31 AM, grant grant...@gmail.com wrote: Aside from the occasional tiny bowl of Ben Jerry's Coffee Health Bar Crunch, my own personal/done good treat is a pretty low carb mixup of Trader Joe's NonFat Greek Yogurt (oddly or mislabeledly, it has fewer carbs than the lo-far or full-fat Greek---and all Greeks have way less than nonGreeks)...and then the Choco protein powder TJ's sells --- the one that has 1g of carbs per scoop and is called something like Elegant Slim or some embarassing name like that. Then I mix it with walnuts (lowest carb nuts, highest O-3 nuts, and my fav, anyway) and blueberries, fresh or half-frozen. My daughters and wife can't stand it, not even a spoonful, but what do they know? Anyway, a whole giant bowl LOOKS like the real thing (ice cream with goodies in it), and tastes about 1/3 as goodbut that's not bad. It has only about 10 to 20g of carbs in the whole thingwhich these days, is indulgent. It's nice to have a heaping mound of brown smooth stuff in front of you now and then. Coco-milk is good, too. Low-carb, high-pota. Freeze it, let it thaw halfway, and the liquidy part half is super sweet--I think the sugar in it is first-to-thaw. Then you drink the sweety coconut part. The bad part is, the remaining chunk that hasn't thawed yet is just basically a chunk of faintly coconut-tainted ice, and --- you've already drunk the sweet stuff. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
No disrespect from me either, but citing a vegan as an example in a what would Taubes eat thread is funny to me. I've never been an over-excerciser. Every time I stop drinking beer and ride my bike as much as I like, I drop down to about 200 lbs (which is good). I'm at 240 now, and just started that again. Let's see if it works now that I'm 42. Philip Philip Williamson www.biketinker.com On Aug 18, 7:17 pm, charlie cl_v...@hotmail.com wrote: No disrespect here Rene' but maybe try not exercising so much..I know riding is enjoyable I love it but try to mix it up a little and if you are trying to lose fat, lift weights and do shorter rides. The plain facts I am almost 53 and 258 down from 282 with virtually no exercise due to weather and work. Been riding some lately but not enough to suit me. With my work demands and other factors, I can't ride two hours everyday without recovery time in between riding days. Over training will just make you tired and no amount (or type) of food will magically make you recover faster. Being young with good genetics and in great condition is the ultimate but if we aren't in one or all three categories we have to work smart not just hard. I think Scott C. went from 500+ to whatever he is now riding only 10+1 miles every day but probably sometimes more than that when he felt like it. The point is, don't bite off more than you can chew ! I have been an over exerciser in my life and I became frustrated that my progress slowed and my mood altered by overdoing it chronically. I suffered a few overuse injuries along the way that I still have to be careful of. These days I try to pace myself and don't even look for aerobic exercise to help me lose fat. I hope this helps in some way toward your goals. Keep at it, I am.. On Aug 17, 7:26 pm, René Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote: I'm definitely interested in losing weight and couldn't really care how fast I ride. I'm just unable at this time to sustain several days of riding for 2 hours each one and one day of rest doesn't seem to be enough. I'm not eating during my rides and only drink water. Trying to follow the low carb plan which I've gotten pretty good for the most part, but have yet to nail precisely for a prolonged time. I'm gluten free and now decided to go dairy free as well, although not yet 100% but almost. Not sure what nuts I can or cannot eat, some days I eat a lot of fruit, some days very little. My meals are mostly meat/fish and salad/vegetables although I'm tempted to add hummus at night. Probably still eating quantities that are too large... Anyway, I've read Taubes and will give Sisson a good reading as well as I just skimmed it. I just wanted to get a sense for how best to address the feeling of weariness after riding several days in a row; is it just lack of conditioning and this will come over time? I ride almost all the time at 70 - 75% of Max HR except when mountain biking on weekends when during the steeper climbs I can hit 100% of Max HR. Will keep at it and see how it goes... the advise on this thread has been quite useful. René -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
Interesting thread (as was the other long'ish one on Taubes' book). I've read his book and was going to reply in that thread but thought better of it... and I've watched this thread and hit Reply a number of times only to then think, Ahh I like Jim and don't want to complicate his life, and thought better of it too. So here's what I will share (and it's really a moot point anyway because people is gonna believe -or be into- whatever it is they desire regardless of Point/Counterpoint). First: what I've learned in 5 years. People dig convenient answers to hard questions. (I did once too, but life doesn't always pan out that way so I had to find my own way) People -also- very much want to have those answers framed around what it is they already know, already enjoy. (and I would have too, probably ...but life didn't pan out that way for me either) Two: There is a great (think, Grand Canyon-sized) divide between Healthy and Fit. The Small die at a similar rate to the Big all the time. Three: I know much about what it takes to lose significant weight and keep it off, but even greater to that I know weight is a shell, that much like a suit when either in or out of it, reveals true numbers of Self, and Hard Work invested into Self. And those numbers do not lie. And I am not speaking of numbers lost with regard to pounds, as significant as they are or can be in any person's particular case... no, I am speaking to the numbers of Labs (blood work, etc). But far better though those, these kinds of numbers: good days (with hugs, smiles, the chance to move freely one's body under its own inertia) added onto a life that was unthinkably horrid, sad, lonely and professionally foretold as supposed to be Pushing Up Daisies a little over 5 years back. The books never reveal those kinds of numbers. Four: Me? I carry water and occasionally a banana (but that's only if my ride is above 30 miles or more)... and it's in a Carradice bag. Sorry. PS-- See Jim, I behaved. -Scott -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
Aside from the occasional tiny bowl of Ben Jerry's Coffee Health Bar Crunch, my own personal/done good treat is a pretty low carb mixup of Trader Joe's NonFat Greek Yogurt (oddly or mislabeledly, it has fewer carbs than the lo-far or full-fat Greek---and all Greeks have way less than nonGreeks)...and then the Choco protein powder TJ's sells --- the one that has 1g of carbs per scoop and is called something like Elegant Slim or some embarassing name like that. Then I mix it with walnuts (lowest carb nuts, highest O-3 nuts, and my fav, anyway) and blueberries, fresh or half-frozen. My daughters and wife can't stand it, not even a spoonful, but what do they know? Anyway, a whole giant bowl LOOKS like the real thing (ice cream with goodies in it), and tastes about 1/3 as goodbut that's not bad. It has only about 10 to 20g of carbs in the whole thingwhich these days, is indulgent. It's nice to have a heaping mound of brown smooth stuff in front of you now and then. Coco-milk is good, too. Low-carb, high-pota. Freeze it, let it thaw halfway, and the liquidy part half is super sweet--I think the sugar in it is first-to-thaw. Then you drink the sweety coconut part. The bad part is, the remaining chunk that hasn't thawed yet is just basically a chunk of faintly coconut-tainted ice, and --- you've already drunk the sweet stuff. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 10:31 AM, grant grant...@gmail.com wrote: Coco-milk is good, too. Low-carb, high-pota. Freeze it, let it thaw halfway, and the liquidy part half is super sweet--I think the sugar in it is first-to-thaw. Then you drink the sweety coconut part. The bad part is, the remaining chunk that hasn't thawed yet is just basically a chunk of faintly coconut-tainted ice, and --- you've already drunk the sweet stuff. Grant, For reasons I cannot entirely explain, the last sentence just made my day. thanks, -sv -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
Glycogen is not a body thing. Glycogen won't move from your arms to your legs. Once your legs are depleted, that's it. As I understand it (I'm not a doctor nor do I play one on TV, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night), fat as a fuel needs something to burn it, and that is some form of carbohydrate, and it's usually one of the really bad ones. If it was just fat, you could head out w/ just a gallon or so of water and come back 10lbs of body fat lighter. The discipline is to only use these bad carbs while exercising. You can get this from many forms, but I just prefer the Gu/Clif etc., type because when I start to get a little low in the gas tank, a gel followed by some water goes right where it should, quickly digested. Same thing could be accomplished w/ Cytomax or some such. Plus time can be a limiting factor so why would I want to stop to ingest? Add to that the extra time for digestion and you're carrying a lot more than you need to and waiting a lot more for it to kick in. It's not a race thing, haven't done that in almost 20 years-too much work for too little reward. The thing it is about, though, is not getting out there and meeting the man with the hammer. That can be bad. Who hasn't finished a century, limping along in 1st gear, doing all you can just to turn over the pedals? No thanks. Recovery is what ever works best for you, worked out by trial and error. On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 9:25 PM, charlie cl_v...@hotmail.com wrote: All of this depends on what your goals are and how you train..I'm interested in losing body fat and could care less if I win the local triathlon or whatever. There is no reason in my mind to load up, eat while riding or recover utilizing starchy carbs. You can get the same thing from vegetables and or some fruits without the insulin spike problems etc. For recovery protein and fat sure makes some sense especially in light of recent training advice to drink sugar laden chocolate milk (protein and fat) I'll take a chunk of chicken,salmon or a steak coupled with a boat load of fresh salad and other assorted greens with olive oil and whatever else my wife uses in her her low carb dressing. Doesn't the body normally only store about two hours worth of glucose anyway. I mean at some point you would have to burn fat on a long ride anywaywhy not train yourself to do that instead of topping off with simple carbohydrate. Just saying...on the other hand, if you are a competitive athlete and you want to log 100 mile days you are probably not interested in the health aspect but would instead want to improve performance and recovery at whatever cost to health. I think however that there are trainers (and authors with books) out there who specialize in 'paleo' diets for athletes. Can't remember the title of the one I'm thinking of but you can probably Google it. On Aug 17, 7:15 am, Khalid Mateen krm2...@gmail.com wrote: I think you are right. If you are doing long distances, your body wants calories and it will look towards anything for those calories, even starchy carbohydrates. I think starchy carbohydrates are appropiate in this instance because your body insulin may go up, but the sugar in the blood is being pushed into the muscle where it is needed most and not stored as body fat. Although I have not read his book, Lorain Cordain suggest high carbohydrates after a workout or after you used alot of energy and need fuel for a workout or activity. I do think if you are going to eat carbohydrates, make sure it is the good stuff if you can get them like rice, pasta,yam and bread. These can be use to help recover from extreme long bike rides and not feel drain the next day. Even good sources of fat since fat has about calories in it and fat can be used to convert to sugar in the body. K. On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 8:54 PM, David Faller dfal...@charter.net wrote: During an energy-hogging ride it doesn't seem to matter how you eat. Your body is desperately looking for available calories, probably at a rate faster than you can digest them and make them available. 200 cal. per hour is probably all one should eat while riding to maintain the energy flow. A friend of mine does many centuries and double centuries per year. He is 53 years old, gaunt, and subsists on alarming quantities of raw vegetables while riding. He has the energy of a 25 year old. But when he takes a break on the side of the road, his number one craving is those hot Fritos. He shamelessly snarfs down those and all sorts of other nasty things like Cup O' Noodles and cookies, etc. Not very Paleo, but he's working so hard that he's burning those calories while idling. Post ride, he gets back to the proteins, with some carbs, and is quite satisfied; I don't think he ends the ride with a 4,000 calorie refuel. I can't say it sounds as fun or rewarding as a spaghetti feed or a BBQ with all the
Re: [RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycogen On Aug 18, 2011, at 6:37 AM, robert zeidler wrote: Glycogen is not a body thing. Glycogen won't move from your arms to your legs. Once your legs are depleted, that's it. As I understand it (I'm not a doctor nor do I play one on TV, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night), fat as a fuel needs something to burn it, and that is some form of carbohydrate, and it's usually one of the really bad ones. If it was just fat, you could head out w/ just a gallon or so of water and come back 10lbs of body fat lighter. The discipline is to only use these bad carbs while exercising. You can get this from many forms, but I just prefer the Gu/Clif etc., type because when I start to get a little low in the gas tank, a gel followed by some water goes right where it should, quickly digested. Same thing could be accomplished w/ Cytomax or some such. Plus time can be a limiting factor so why would I want to stop to ingest? Add to that the extra time for digestion and you're carrying a lot more than you need to and waiting a lot more for it to kick in. It's not a race thing, haven't done that in almost 20 years-too much work for too little reward. The thing it is about, though, is not getting out there and meeting the man with the hammer. That can be bad. Who hasn't finished a century, limping along in 1st gear, doing all you can just to turn over the pedals? No thanks. Recovery is what ever works best for you, worked out by trial and error. On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 9:25 PM, charlie cl_v...@hotmail.com wrote: All of this depends on what your goals are and how you train..I'm interested in losing body fat and could care less if I win the local triathlon or whatever. There is no reason in my mind to load up, eat while riding or recover utilizing starchy carbs. You can get the same thing from vegetables and or some fruits without the insulin spike problems etc. For recovery protein and fat sure makes some sense especially in light of recent training advice to drink sugar laden chocolate milk (protein and fat) I'll take a chunk of chicken,salmon or a steak coupled with a boat load of fresh salad and other assorted greens with olive oil and whatever else my wife uses in her her low carb dressing. Doesn't the body normally only store about two hours worth of glucose anyway. I mean at some point you would have to burn fat on a long ride anywaywhy not train yourself to do that instead of topping off with simple carbohydrate. Just saying...on the other hand, if you are a competitive athlete and you want to log 100 mile days you are probably not interested in the health aspect but would instead want to improve performance and recovery at whatever cost to health. I think however that there are trainers (and authors with books) out there who specialize in 'paleo' diets for athletes. Can't remember the title of the one I'm thinking of but you can probably Google it. On Aug 17, 7:15 am, Khalid Mateen krm2...@gmail.com wrote: I think you are right. If you are doing long distances, your body wants calories and it will look towards anything for those calories, even starchy carbohydrates. I think starchy carbohydrates are appropiate in this instance because your body insulin may go up, but the sugar in the blood is being pushed into the muscle where it is needed most and not stored as body fat. Although I have not read his book, Lorain Cordain suggest high carbohydrates after a workout or after you used alot of energy and need fuel for a workout or activity. I do think if you are going to eat carbohydrates, make sure it is the good stuff if you can get them like rice, pasta,yam and bread. These can be use to help recover from extreme long bike rides and not feel drain the next day. Even good sources of fat since fat has about calories in it and fat can be used to convert to sugar in the body. K. On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 8:54 PM, David Faller dfal...@charter.net wrote: During an energy-hogging ride it doesn't seem to matter how you eat. Your body is desperately looking for available calories, probably at a rate faster than you can digest them and make them available. 200 cal. per hour is probably all one should eat while riding to maintain the energy flow. A friend of mine does many centuries and double centuries per year. He is 53 years old, gaunt, and subsists on alarming quantities of raw vegetables while riding. He has the energy of a 25 year old. But when he takes a break on the side of the road, his number one craving is those hot Fritos. He shamelessly snarfs down those and all sorts of other nasty things like Cup O' Noodles and cookies, etc. Not very Paleo, but he's working so hard that he's burning those calories while idling. Post ride, he gets back to the proteins, with some carbs, and is quite satisfied; I don't think he ends the ride with a
Re: [RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
I've been sittin' on the sidelines on this, but, I suppose I should pitch in a bit... Twenty years ago, I was a lean 19-yr-old, 6' tall, 150lb infantry Marine. Before then, I could eat anything, wouldn't gain a pound. When I got out several years later, I was more like 180lbs; heavier, but strong, square-built, was fine. But, married, two kids, entered grad school, ended up sitting on my duff, sedentary. By the time ten years had passed (ten years ago), I'd gotten up to... 280lbs. I still thought of myself as a skinny kid in my head, but was anything but. Finally, wanted to do something about, and I heard about how well low-carb worked for people, decided to try it. I didn't buy a book, or follow a particular menu; I just tried to not eat carbs. I'd started in at the beginning of March, and by the end of November, I was down to 200lbs.I thought, awesome. But, there between Thanksgiving and Christmas, a switch was thrown in my head. If I thought about not eating a roll, I found that I ate the basket of rolls. If I thought about not eating a donut at the coffee pot, I'd eat a dozen donuts. Want to pass on a piece of pie, I ate a pie.It was eerie. It was like there was some change in how I was wired. By the end of spring, I was up to about 230. And, there I stayed for five, six or so more years. I'd not paid close enough attention, my weight had crept back up, to about 260.I needed to get off my duff and try again. I started watching carbs again, and, this time, that's when I got back on a bike, after a long hiatus. I got down to 220, then would creep back up to 240, then back yoyo down to 230, back to 240... last Thanksgiving, I was 220 again, but by the end of New Years', was back up further, to 260; By March, I was down to 230; but I've since gotten to where I fluctuate between 235 and 240. It's hard; vegetables and meats are more expensive than carbs. I have a sweet tooth. I like beer. I do like the idea of eating nice salads and lean cuts of meat, but when the wife insists on having selections of cookies in the house, it's hard to not sneak one. When suppertime comes and it's pasta and potatoes, it's hard to skip dinner.The first time I lost all the weight, she was really supportive of it, but, what also didn't help my backsliding was that she realized she'd doubled our food budget, and decided to revert to more bread, potato, snacky stuff she was tired of not having bags of chips in the house, just to keep me from being tempted. So, in my house, it's a struggle.I want to get down under 200, but when my wife makes a point of saying she doesn't care if I'm over 250, then she opens up a bag of candy barsWhen I want to go for a bike-ride, but she says she wants to spend more time with me, but just wants to nap on the couch and watch TV to do so, it's hard to not be sedentary. I want her to be more active, too, but she doesn't want to... I want to live to a ripe old age, and she says she doesn't want to be an old woman, would be ready to kick the bucket sooner than later, especially if it meant she had to get off the couch, well. It's frustrating. + + + + The other day, the local paper ran an article. There was a ranking of metro areas and transportation conducted; at the bottom of the list, 3rd from last place for non-car infrastructure, was the Tri-Cities here. It's fact, I can't deny it. You can't get to work on a bus here; there's a bike trail here or there but using one to commute is hazardous. Mobile was 1st, I don't remember what was 2nd, but, basically, if you live here, you can't function w/o a car. I know I can't. I didn't used to think in terms of wanting to commute by bike; it really didn't bother me that it's a 40-min drive to the office. When I lived in Knoxville, I was less than 10-miles from my office, and it took an hour, w/ traffic; so for it to be 40-miles from driveway to parking lot at work, and take 40-minutes, I was thrilled it was 'that short' of a commute. I know lots of people that drive an hour and a half to work each day. It didn't bother me before, but, I didn't think about it before, either. It's risky to bike here. I and my kids, we go biking when we can. Yet, even my wife complains about the one fellow who rides home in the afternoons along Orebank Road. He has as much right as she does to the road, but she thinks he should get off the road, quit holding up cars. I can't argue w/ her, even if I think she's wrong, she's heck to live w/ if I do argue w/ her. But when the spouses and mothers of the bikers in town think bikes should go away, it's hard to see progress made in getting more people to bike. Sorry for venting, but, it's been starting to gnaw at me -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on
Re: [RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
I often stop and eat a bunch of berries on the way home from work. I have shellac on my bars, so the tape doesn't stain, but I'm now wondering, would berry stains count as beausage. :-) On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 7:05 PM, Zack zack...@gmail.com wrote: Today, on my maiden voyage for the new Sam Hillborne, I remembered that a friend had let me know about a wild blackberry stash in town. I rode over, picked berries, turned my hands red, and ate them. I then rode home. Pretty solid way to spend the day. I'll put some pics up later. Nothing more paleo than scaring up some berries! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
i think it would be the best type of beausage. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/ZnprJ9Q1e0cJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
No disrespect here Rene' but maybe try not exercising so much..I know riding is enjoyable I love it but try to mix it up a little and if you are trying to lose fat, lift weights and do shorter rides. The plain facts I am almost 53 and 258 down from 282 with virtually no exercise due to weather and work. Been riding some lately but not enough to suit me. With my work demands and other factors, I can't ride two hours everyday without recovery time in between riding days. Over training will just make you tired and no amount (or type) of food will magically make you recover faster. Being young with good genetics and in great condition is the ultimate but if we aren't in one or all three categories we have to work smart not just hard. I think Scott C. went from 500+ to whatever he is now riding only 10+1 miles every day but probably sometimes more than that when he felt like it. The point is, don't bite off more than you can chew ! I have been an over exerciser in my life and I became frustrated that my progress slowed and my mood altered by overdoing it chronically. I suffered a few overuse injuries along the way that I still have to be careful of. These days I try to pace myself and don't even look for aerobic exercise to help me lose fat. I hope this helps in some way toward your goals. Keep at it, I am.. On Aug 17, 7:26 pm, René Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote: I'm definitely interested in losing weight and couldn't really care how fast I ride. I'm just unable at this time to sustain several days of riding for 2 hours each one and one day of rest doesn't seem to be enough. I'm not eating during my rides and only drink water. Trying to follow the low carb plan which I've gotten pretty good for the most part, but have yet to nail precisely for a prolonged time. I'm gluten free and now decided to go dairy free as well, although not yet 100% but almost. Not sure what nuts I can or cannot eat, some days I eat a lot of fruit, some days very little. My meals are mostly meat/fish and salad/vegetables although I'm tempted to add hummus at night. Probably still eating quantities that are too large... Anyway, I've read Taubes and will give Sisson a good reading as well as I just skimmed it. I just wanted to get a sense for how best to address the feeling of weariness after riding several days in a row; is it just lack of conditioning and this will come over time? I ride almost all the time at 70 - 75% of Max HR except when mountain biking on weekends when during the steeper climbs I can hit 100% of Max HR. Will keep at it and see how it goes... the advise on this thread has been quite useful. René -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
You'd be better off to eat more than a little fruit.maybe a medium amount. I think sometimes just taking a break and having a meal is perfect. I mean if your goal is (just) to get somewhere, take a break. If you are training for some kind of event I guess you have to eat on the ride but I figure Grok took a break then resumed trekking into the wilderness in search of wild game or an elusive cave woman. Actually, I suppose Grok nibbled on nuts and berries along the way too. I'm looking forward to getting one of those nifty lightweight stoves and might do some longer meandering rides with a picnic style break and a hot cup of coffee (probably not a Grok bev but I like coffee) plus I like the time to reflect and enjoy a nice view. I just can't get into the long grueling slog while only looking straight ahead anymore. On Aug 16, 9:30 pm, reynoldslugs be...@perrylaw.net wrote: Thanks, Everyone, for the input. I rode today and got in six hours, stopped after three hours at the Dairy Queen drive-through and got a triple cheese burger, side order of fries and a big-ass coke. No bonk! seriously... just going with a little fruit now, we'll see how it goes. regards all around RL -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
On Aug 17, 2011, at 1:16 AM, charlie wrote: Actually, I suppose Grok nibbled on nuts and berries along the way too. Grok probably ate everything he could get his hands on whenever it was available, his food supply being unpredictable. That's why agriculture developed. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
All of this depends on what your goals are and how you train..I'm interested in losing body fat and could care less if I win the local triathlon or whatever. There is no reason in my mind to load up, eat while riding or recover utilizing starchy carbs. You can get the same thing from vegetables and or some fruits without the insulin spike problems etc. For recovery protein and fat sure makes some sense especially in light of recent training advice to drink sugar laden chocolate milk (protein and fat) I'll take a chunk of chicken,salmon or a steak coupled with a boat load of fresh salad and other assorted greens with olive oil and whatever else my wife uses in her her low carb dressing. Doesn't the body normally only store about two hours worth of glucose anyway. I mean at some point you would have to burn fat on a long ride anywaywhy not train yourself to do that instead of topping off with simple carbohydrate. Just saying...on the other hand, if you are a competitive athlete and you want to log 100 mile days you are probably not interested in the health aspect but would instead want to improve performance and recovery at whatever cost to health. I think however that there are trainers (and authors with books) out there who specialize in 'paleo' diets for athletes. Can't remember the title of the one I'm thinking of but you can probably Google it. On Aug 17, 7:15 am, Khalid Mateen krm2...@gmail.com wrote: I think you are right. If you are doing long distances, your body wants calories and it will look towards anything for those calories, even starchy carbohydrates. I think starchy carbohydrates are appropiate in this instance because your body insulin may go up, but the sugar in the blood is being pushed into the muscle where it is needed most and not stored as body fat. Although I have not read his book, Lorain Cordain suggest high carbohydrates after a workout or after you used alot of energy and need fuel for a workout or activity. I do think if you are going to eat carbohydrates, make sure it is the good stuff if you can get them like rice, pasta,yam and bread. These can be use to help recover from extreme long bike rides and not feel drain the next day. Even good sources of fat since fat has about calories in it and fat can be used to convert to sugar in the body. K. On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 8:54 PM, David Faller dfal...@charter.net wrote: During an energy-hogging ride it doesn't seem to matter how you eat. Your body is desperately looking for available calories, probably at a rate faster than you can digest them and make them available. 200 cal. per hour is probably all one should eat while riding to maintain the energy flow. A friend of mine does many centuries and double centuries per year. He is 53 years old, gaunt, and subsists on alarming quantities of raw vegetables while riding. He has the energy of a 25 year old. But when he takes a break on the side of the road, his number one craving is those hot Fritos. He shamelessly snarfs down those and all sorts of other nasty things like Cup O' Noodles and cookies, etc. Not very Paleo, but he's working so hard that he's burning those calories while idling. Post ride, he gets back to the proteins, with some carbs, and is quite satisfied; I don't think he ends the ride with a 4,000 calorie refuel. I can't say it sounds as fun or rewarding as a spaghetti feed or a BBQ with all the goodies, but he seems to do this effortlessly. Personally, I'm all for pizza and beer after the ride... On 8/14/2011 5:30 PM, reynoldslugs wrote: Sorry to resuscitate a dying thread, but here goes: I like the way the Taubes/Paleo makes me feel - -won't rehash. Problem I have is long rides - - 4 to 12 hours. I have not figured out the Taubesian foods work to keep you going during the ride, or how to handle that feeling of post-ride starvation. What do you eat during the ride, and how do you handle the post-ride meal? I don't think I should be putting Candy Bars in my Candy Bar Bag, but hard boiled eggs and raw broccoli aren't getting me through the long days. Any suggestions? Thanks. I know this post is not really Rivendell related, and the Candy Bar Bag humor is weak. RL -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.**comrbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com . To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/** group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=enhttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to
Re: [RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
I'm definitely interested in losing weight and couldn't really care how fast I ride. I'm just unable at this time to sustain several days of riding for 2 hours each one and one day of rest doesn't seem to be enough. I'm not eating during my rides and only drink water. Trying to follow the low carb plan which I've gotten pretty good for the most part, but have yet to nail precisely for a prolonged time. I'm gluten free and now decided to go dairy free as well, although not yet 100% but almost. Not sure what nuts I can or cannot eat, some days I eat a lot of fruit, some days very little. My meals are mostly meat/fish and salad/vegetables although I'm tempted to add hummus at night. Probably still eating quantities that are too large... Anyway, I've read Taubes and will give Sisson a good reading as well as I just skimmed it. I just wanted to get a sense for how best to address the feeling of weariness after riding several days in a row; is it just lack of conditioning and this will come over time? I ride almost all the time at 70 - 75% of Max HR except when mountain biking on weekends when during the steeper climbs I can hit 100% of Max HR. Will keep at it and see how it goes... the advise on this thread has been quite useful. René -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
Today, on my maiden voyage for the new Sam Hillborne, I remembered that a friend had let me know about a wild blackberry stash in town. I rode over, picked berries, turned my hands red, and ate them. I then rode home. Pretty solid way to spend the day. I'll put some pics up later. Nothing more paleo than scaring up some berries! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/gzERoP5CuCwJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
When that happens eat more fats and protein plus veggies not carbs. I just eat a big steak and a huge salad then top it off with strawberries and home made whip cream using stevia to 'sweeten'. It satiates me just fine, is low carb and I get enough calories. Doing this now for a while and still losing fat. If I eat the carbs I get on a vicious circle of wanting more later. On Aug 15, 9:39 pm, Darin G. dbg...@mac.com wrote: I've had a tough time with this aspect of long rides, paleo or not, and tend to get a sweet stomach from gatorade, energy gels, blocks, etc, but on longer rides I bonk if I don't eat, which ruins the ride (or hike or ski, or whatever) and presents a dilemma. I tend to do best eating eggs, sausage and a small serving of potatoes for breakfast and then eating food along the way, be it pizza or a sandwich with fruit, especially apples, and maybe some carrot sticks and cucumbers. I'd probably eat meatloaf and mashed potatoes if my mom were to meet me along the way. I'm going to try grilled cheese sandwiches this winter. The pizza and sandwich are not paleo for sure, but I'm more interested in avoiding the bonk while not getting nauseous, and I don't know how it matters when you're burning 5,000 calories on the ride. I'm obviously not a nutritionist and perhaps there is a precise way to dose yourself with pure paleo food and not bonk but in the make-it-up-as-I-go-along world this is the best I've come up with. I usually do not eat anything on rides shorter than 3 hours which seems to work well for me. My brother-in-law developed the Pro-Bar which is one of the more palatable bars (lots of fat, seeds, etc.) and I keep one in my saddle bag as a back up. I asked him about a digestible energy source for long events and he said he tells cross-country skiers and distance cyclists to take a baked potato in a ziplock with a little olive oil and salt. You could take it a step further and make it a yam or a sweet potato. Put it in a rubbermaid container in your saddle bag. Each potato comes out around 200 calories and slightly less than 50 grams of easily digested carbohydrate. Its gotta taste better than the crap they serve at the aid stations at most century rides and Mark Sisson seems to be generally approving of potatoes as an energy source. The real challenge for me is the day after the long ride. The day of the ride my appetite tends to be suppressed by the activity (especially if its hot) but it comes back with a vengeance the next day which makes diet compliance difficult. I spent today fantasizing about a Margherita pizza for instance and I started salivating just reading the post above about jamon with manchego on baguette. Still working on tweaking the post long ride menu. On Aug 15, 8:29 pm, charlie cl_v...@hotmail.com wrote: Well you have to ask yourself the real question.that is, If you are eating paleo are you exercising paleo? Unless you are riding at a lower pace (similar to the output of a walker) you will need to consume a higher amount of carbohydrate. Fruit and veggies are the natural thing for that. If you are riding 4-12 hours, eat fats, protein, veggies, nuts, fruit just like when you are not riding. This assumes you are trying to burn fat as you ride. Unless you continually 'top off' with carbs you'll soon be out of glucose anyway and will have to burn fat for energy. I think they call it 'the bonk'. I've just come to the conclusion that I don't like riding that long or that hard. If I can't finish my riding in a 5-6 hour day, I'm going to do the sensible thing and take a rest, eat some food and go to sleep until the next day. The best post ride food in my mind would be the same thing I eat normally just a little more of it. For protein, eggs or fish seem to digest better for me than a steak but the fat in the steak satiates better after exercising. I also like the way I feel eating primarily vegetables and meat. During a ride you askI eat fruit or nuts or berries maybe even a little turkey jerky or a teriyaki stick. Most of my riding these days however is two hours at a time or less so I rarely eat when I ride and just drink some water. I've also taken to riding my new SimpleOne and I've changed the way I ride and do more gut busting climbing coupled with easy spinning and coasting and some high velocity spinning for the fast twitch fibers. Kind of a interval type of thing like when I commute to work from light to light. On the few longer rides I've done I slow my pace quite a bit and plod along. On Aug 14, 5:30 pm, reynoldslugs be...@perrylaw.net wrote: Sorry to resuscitate a dying thread, but here goes: I like the way the Taubes/Paleo makes me feel - -won't rehash. Problem I have is long rides - - 4 to 12 hours. I have not figured out the Taubesian foods work to keep you going during the ride, or how to handle that feeling
[RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
Thanks, Everyone, for the input. I rode today and got in six hours, stopped after three hours at the Dairy Queen drive-through and got a triple cheese burger, side order of fries and a big-ass coke. No bonk! seriously... just going with a little fruit now, we'll see how it goes. regards all around RL -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
Lewis and Clark ate 9 pounds of meat a day, and hardly any anything else. Eskimos eat muscle and fat only. There are historical precendents for it, even in high-active people (can't bring myself to write peoples) I've thought/obsessed over/read about this a lot in the last year and a half, and armed with the confidence that comes with an A.A. degree (general studies), I can tell you how it seems to work. I am not declaring this as an authoritative answer, but I believe it completely based on what I've read and my own experience and experiments. 1. If you have five pounds of fat, that's 17,500 calories of fuel. An hour of hard, dreadful riding burns about 750 calories, depending on your own physiology. A groovy medium-effort ride may burn 400 calories an hour. Hey, if it's flattish and you're enjoying it, maybe 300 calories. You have tons of fuel for days of riding without eating.as long as you fuel your rides with your fat. You still have to drink, and may need to replenish some calcium and potassium and salt, but you can do that in low-to-no carb ways. 2. You can think of your exercising (riding) as having three zones, depending on effort level as determined by heart rate. The numbers you're about to read are approximate for most people, and at least make the point. Here goes: • below 70 percent of max heart rate, your muscles can easily get all the oxygen they need from body fat. BUT if you have high insulin levels in your blood (from power bars, gatorade, bananas, and yes, even the sainted medjool date), then your body stops burning fat right NOW, and will burn the glucose instead. You cannot access your body fat as fuel when your blood is swimming with insulin. Insulin is a metabolic hormone that dictates fuel usage. Practically, this means you can ride happily and comfortably without even eating. I can and often have ridden 4-hours without food, even at a decent effort. I drink. • in the training zone, btw about 70 and high 80s percent of maxheartrate, you will still burn fat in the absence of blood insulin, BUT...you'll lose efficiency, because carbs are better at supplying your muscles with the high levels of oxygen that harder efforts demand. If you race, you need the carbs. Or, if you plan to ride a fast brevet, eat the dates. If you're a Walter Mitty type even on solo rides or disorganized rides with friends, then for all intents and purposes you are a racer, and will benefit from carbs. There is good and bad. Good is: You can eat the goopy tasty carbs without the glucose-insulin spike, because you burn them up. Bad is: You're burning up your chow, not your fat. There's no way around this. If you want to go low-carb for 90 percent of the time, but can't stand the idea of never again eating your favorite high-carb treats, eat them before and during a longish hardish ride. • most people are anaerobic above 90 percent of MHR. You can't ride that hard for more than about 40 seconds, and even repeated intervals don't depend on dietary chow. You will be slightly more efficient (faster) with high glucose levels (and insulin) than with low-glucose (from carbless eats), but intervals are a sometime-thing, and the whole point is to supertax and supercharge your muscles, makem stronger by tearing them down so they rebuild better...and train them to become more insulin-sensitive (which helps keep you lean because when your muscles are insulin-sensitive, you don't shoot out as much insulin in response to carbs, and less insulin means less fat creation and storage). Also, exercising anaerobically on what amounts to an empty stomach (don't eat, keep insulin low), your body responds by releasing more growth hormone...which helps insulin sensitivity. Body builders and pro athletes take GH to get lean...and it works by helping them build muscle, and lean mass/muscle contributes to insulin sensitivity. This IS how it works, but then you look at skinny pros chomping down carbs and touting them, and you get the message that carbs are good. They're not believable spokesmodels for that kind of eating (or that kind of riding). They can eat that way and ride that way and for the most part stay lean because of genetics. Their sport (racing) selects for certain body types and inherited physiologies, the same way that basketball selects for tallies, and gymnastics for shorties. You wouldn't start to shoot hoops because you wanted to grow a few inches, but bike riders all the time copy racers because they're told they'll look the same way (or close) if they eat and ride that way. The best low-carb electrolyte replacement drinks are tomato juice and coconut milk (Big Moo has made it illegal to call any whitish guzzlable liquid milk unless it came from an udder, but when I grew up it was coconut MILK, and I'm sticking with that. Both have phenomenal potassium-to-carb ratios. The tomatoe juice is generally high in salt, too. You could add salt to cocomilk. Salt and potassium are by far the most important
[RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
The long thing below from yesterday is not complete. There are things it doesn't address (gluconeogenesis, cortisol, and their effect on fuel usage)..but for a nudge in the right direction...it is good enough. I should have said old timey Eskimos eat nothing but meat...since I'm sure new timey ones somehow manage to get their Cheetos, what with the internet and trading posts and snow mobiles and all. Over and out for me on this...G On Aug 14, 11:11 pm, grant grant...@gmail.com wrote: Lewis and Clark ate 9 pounds of meat a day, and hardly any anything else. Eskimos eat muscle and fat only. There are historical precendents for it, even in high-active people (can't bring myself to write peoples) I've thought/obsessed over/read about this a lot in the last year and a half, and armed with the confidence that comes with an A.A. degree (general studies), I can tell you how it seems to work. I am not declaring this as an authoritative answer, but I believe it completely based on what I've read and my own experience and experiments. 1. If you have five pounds of fat, that's 17,500 calories of fuel. An hour of hard, dreadful riding burns about 750 calories, depending on your own physiology. A groovy medium-effort ride may burn 400 calories an hour. Hey, if it's flattish and you're enjoying it, maybe 300 calories. You have tons of fuel for days of riding without eating.as long as you fuel your rides with your fat. You still have to drink, and may need to replenish some calcium and potassium and salt, but you can do that in low-to-no carb ways. 2. You can think of your exercising (riding) as having three zones, depending on effort level as determined by heart rate. The numbers you're about to read are approximate for most people, and at least make the point. Here goes: • below 70 percent of max heart rate, your muscles can easily get all the oxygen they need from body fat. BUT if you have high insulin levels in your blood (from power bars, gatorade, bananas, and yes, even the sainted medjool date), then your body stops burning fat right NOW, and will burn the glucose instead. You cannot access your body fat as fuel when your blood is swimming with insulin. Insulin is a metabolic hormone that dictates fuel usage. Practically, this means you can ride happily and comfortably without even eating. I can and often have ridden 4-hours without food, even at a decent effort. I drink. • in the training zone, btw about 70 and high 80s percent of maxheartrate, you will still burn fat in the absence of blood insulin, BUT...you'll lose efficiency, because carbs are better at supplying your muscles with the high levels of oxygen that harder efforts demand. If you race, you need the carbs. Or, if you plan to ride a fast brevet, eat the dates. If you're a Walter Mitty type even on solo rides or disorganized rides with friends, then for all intents and purposes you are a racer, and will benefit from carbs. There is good and bad. Good is: You can eat the goopy tasty carbs without the glucose-insulin spike, because you burn them up. Bad is: You're burning up your chow, not your fat. There's no way around this. If you want to go low-carb for 90 percent of the time, but can't stand the idea of never again eating your favorite high-carb treats, eat them before and during a longish hardish ride. • most people are anaerobic above 90 percent of MHR. You can't ride that hard for more than about 40 seconds, and even repeated intervals don't depend on dietary chow. You will be slightly more efficient (faster) with high glucose levels (and insulin) than with low-glucose (from carbless eats), but intervals are a sometime-thing, and the whole point is to supertax and supercharge your muscles, makem stronger by tearing them down so they rebuild better...and train them to become more insulin-sensitive (which helps keep you lean because when your muscles are insulin-sensitive, you don't shoot out as much insulin in response to carbs, and less insulin means less fat creation and storage). Also, exercising anaerobically on what amounts to an empty stomach (don't eat, keep insulin low), your body responds by releasing more growth hormone...which helps insulin sensitivity. Body builders and pro athletes take GH to get lean...and it works by helping them build muscle, and lean mass/muscle contributes to insulin sensitivity. This IS how it works, but then you look at skinny pros chomping down carbs and touting them, and you get the message that carbs are good. They're not believable spokesmodels for that kind of eating (or that kind of riding). They can eat that way and ride that way and for the most part stay lean because of genetics. Their sport (racing) selects for certain body types and inherited physiologies, the same way that basketball selects for tallies, and gymnastics for shorties. You wouldn't start to shoot hoops because you wanted to grow a few inches,
[RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
Having decided to take the Paleo Plunge, I too wondered about what to carry on longish rides. I finally settled on a tin of kipper snacks or a beef stick along with two Kleen Kanteens, one filled with water the other half full of a dry red wine (following the fermentation process the only carbs left in the wine are in the alcohol). On Aug 14, 7:30 pm, reynoldslugs be...@perrylaw.net wrote: Sorry to resuscitate a dying thread, but here goes: I like the way the Taubes/Paleo makes me feel - -won't rehash. Problem I have is long rides - - 4 to 12 hours. I have not figured out the Taubesian foods work to keep you going during the ride, or how to handle that feeling of post-ride starvation. What do you eat during the ride, and how do you handle the post-ride meal? I don't think I should be putting Candy Bars in my Candy Bar Bag, but hard boiled eggs and raw broccoli aren't getting me through the long days. Any suggestions? Thanks. I know this post is not really Rivendell related, and the Candy Bar Bag humor is weak. RL -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
Larabars are mostly dates with just a couple of additional ingredients (no chemicals), depending on the flavor. For instance, the cashew cookie flavor contains just dates and cashews. They are convenient for long rides since they come wrapped in serving-sized portions. I like the boxes of 12 mini-bars; one of those minis every hour or so is about right for me when I'm on a daylong ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/DEuJY_eCkRoJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
It may not sound very healthy but I love having a giant Payday bar on a long ride, the peanuts for some protein, the goo that holds them together for carbs, and the salt on the nuts for some electrolytes. For me it is the perfect ride food. I do eat a lot of fruit, found a farm stand in the middle of a metric last Friday and ate a couple of the best peaches I've ever had! John G. Ballwin, MO On Aug 14, 7:30 pm, reynoldslugs be...@perrylaw.net wrote: Sorry to resuscitate a dying thread, but here goes: I like the way the Taubes/Paleo makes me feel - -won't rehash. Problem I have is long rides - - 4 to 12 hours. I have not figured out the Taubesian foods work to keep you going during the ride, or how to handle that feeling of post-ride starvation. What do you eat during the ride, and how do you handle the post-ride meal? I don't think I should be putting Candy Bars in my Candy Bar Bag, but hard boiled eggs and raw broccoli aren't getting me through the long days. Any suggestions? Thanks. I know this post is not really Rivendell related, and the Candy Bar Bag humor is weak. RL -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
My experience has shown, (I'm about the same age as Grant, what 29?), that once glycogen is gone it's gone. I'm 6'6 and around 230. I keep track of stuff like mileage, wattage etc., purely as a interesting thing to do. Haven't raced since '92, and ride mostly solo because I want to do what I want to do when I want to do it. Point being I can pay attention to whether I feel good, bad, or otherwise. On rides over 2 hours, on just water, I finish with just the beginnings of nail-gunned legs. Recovery is hard, weight stays the same. After reading Paleo for Athletes, and doing the calculations, I ingest some Shot Bloks w/ water about 10 min before starting out-no insulin spike because you start burning it as soon as it's available. At around 1 hour, and then every 45 min thereafter, I ingest a Gu, etc., and mix in a Honey stinger waffle for variety, not together but every 45 min or so. This is the fuel that burns fat. It's a delicate balance to be sure. But I have access to one of those fancy scales that measures hydration, body fat etc. After losing approx 20 lbs (after, admittedly, a very bad winter), my weight has plateaued but my body fat % has continued to decrease. I'd like to continue to lower my body weight and will probably do so w/ more consistent training, and water intake-there is only one way fat leaves your body, when you pee. Half your body weight in ounces is what you should drink every day. (200 lbs=100oz/H2O). You'll be inconvenienced a lot but it will work. YMMV however. On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 1:11 AM, grant grant...@gmail.com wrote: Lewis and Clark ate 9 pounds of meat a day, and hardly any anything else. Eskimos eat muscle and fat only. There are historical precendents for it, even in high-active people (can't bring myself to write peoples) I've thought/obsessed over/read about this a lot in the last year and a half, and armed with the confidence that comes with an A.A. degree (general studies), I can tell you how it seems to work. I am not declaring this as an authoritative answer, but I believe it completely based on what I've read and my own experience and experiments. 1. If you have five pounds of fat, that's 17,500 calories of fuel. An hour of hard, dreadful riding burns about 750 calories, depending on your own physiology. A groovy medium-effort ride may burn 400 calories an hour. Hey, if it's flattish and you're enjoying it, maybe 300 calories. You have tons of fuel for days of riding without eating.as long as you fuel your rides with your fat. You still have to drink, and may need to replenish some calcium and potassium and salt, but you can do that in low-to-no carb ways. 2. You can think of your exercising (riding) as having three zones, depending on effort level as determined by heart rate. The numbers you're about to read are approximate for most people, and at least make the point. Here goes: • below 70 percent of max heart rate, your muscles can easily get all the oxygen they need from body fat. BUT if you have high insulin levels in your blood (from power bars, gatorade, bananas, and yes, even the sainted medjool date), then your body stops burning fat right NOW, and will burn the glucose instead. You cannot access your body fat as fuel when your blood is swimming with insulin. Insulin is a metabolic hormone that dictates fuel usage. Practically, this means you can ride happily and comfortably without even eating. I can and often have ridden 4-hours without food, even at a decent effort. I drink. • in the training zone, btw about 70 and high 80s percent of maxheartrate, you will still burn fat in the absence of blood insulin, BUT...you'll lose efficiency, because carbs are better at supplying your muscles with the high levels of oxygen that harder efforts demand. If you race, you need the carbs. Or, if you plan to ride a fast brevet, eat the dates. If you're a Walter Mitty type even on solo rides or disorganized rides with friends, then for all intents and purposes you are a racer, and will benefit from carbs. There is good and bad. Good is: You can eat the goopy tasty carbs without the glucose-insulin spike, because you burn them up. Bad is: You're burning up your chow, not your fat. There's no way around this. If you want to go low-carb for 90 percent of the time, but can't stand the idea of never again eating your favorite high-carb treats, eat them before and during a longish hardish ride. • most people are anaerobic above 90 percent of MHR. You can't ride that hard for more than about 40 seconds, and even repeated intervals don't depend on dietary chow. You will be slightly more efficient (faster) with high glucose levels (and insulin) than with low-glucose (from carbless eats), but intervals are a sometime-thing, and the whole point is to supertax and supercharge your muscles, makem stronger by tearing them down so they rebuild better...and train them to become more insulin-sensitive
[RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
I went looking for a Larabar recipies and found this http://www.healthhabits.ca/2010/06/18/homemade-larabar-recipes/ i was curious how this woman eats 2 bars per workout! How long does she work out, are these bars less calories then regular energy bars? They do not look appetizing (i find very few bars appetizing looking), but i'm willing to try them, i like the no additional sugar part. However i have this sneaking suspicion that there is an ethnic/basic equivalent of these bars. I find it hard to believe that no-one before Larabars came up with this recipe of dates and nuts... On Aug 14, 9:07 pm, Eric Daume ericda...@gmail.com wrote: I make some trail mix with raw almonds, raisins, unsweetened coconut, and chocolate chips or (ideally, if I have any around) dark chocolate. I'm not sure how well it works as fuel, but it's darn tasty. Eric On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 8:30 PM, reynoldslugs be...@perrylaw.net wrote: Sorry to resuscitate a dying thread, but here goes: I like the way the Taubes/Paleo makes me feel - -won't rehash. Problem I have is long rides - - 4 to 12 hours. I have not figured out the Taubesian foods work to keep you going during the ride, or how to handle that feeling of post-ride starvation. What do you eat during the ride, and how do you handle the post-ride meal? I don't think I should be putting Candy Bars in my Candy Bar Bag, but hard boiled eggs and raw broccoli aren't getting me through the long days. Any suggestions? Thanks. I know this post is not really Rivendell related, and the Candy Bar Bag humor is weak. RL -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
I have long considered dates to be the original powerbar, and will eat them but have to be pretty darn desperate before I'll eat any bar. Obviously though many people are just the opposite. What I do like for long ride refueling is a ham sandwich, or two, made with the best ham and bread I can find, with olive oil on the bread. I can feel the rejuvenation when the sandwich hits a half or or so after eating. Tim On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Minh mgiangs...@gmail.com wrote: I went looking for a Larabar recipies and found this http://www.healthhabits.ca/2010/06/18/homemade-larabar-recipes/ i was curious how this woman eats 2 bars per workout! How long does she work out, are these bars less calories then regular energy bars? They do not look appetizing (i find very few bars appetizing looking), but i'm willing to try them, i like the no additional sugar part. However i have this sneaking suspicion that there is an ethnic/basic equivalent of these bars. I find it hard to believe that no-one before Larabars came up with this recipe of dates and nuts... On Aug 14, 9:07 pm, Eric Daume ericda...@gmail.com wrote: I make some trail mix with raw almonds, raisins, unsweetened coconut, and chocolate chips or (ideally, if I have any around) dark chocolate. I'm not sure how well it works as fuel, but it's darn tasty. Eric On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 8:30 PM, reynoldslugs be...@perrylaw.net wrote: Sorry to resuscitate a dying thread, but here goes: I like the way the Taubes/Paleo makes me feel - -won't rehash. Problem I have is long rides - - 4 to 12 hours. I have not figured out the Taubesian foods work to keep you going during the ride, or how to handle that feeling of post-ride starvation. What do you eat during the ride, and how do you handle the post-ride meal? I don't think I should be putting Candy Bars in my Candy Bar Bag, but hard boiled eggs and raw broccoli aren't getting me through the long days. Any suggestions? Thanks. I know this post is not really Rivendell related, and the Candy Bar Bag humor is weak. RL -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com . To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
Well you have to ask yourself the real question.that is, If you are eating paleo are you exercising paleo? Unless you are riding at a lower pace (similar to the output of a walker) you will need to consume a higher amount of carbohydrate. Fruit and veggies are the natural thing for that. If you are riding 4-12 hours, eat fats, protein, veggies, nuts, fruit just like when you are not riding. This assumes you are trying to burn fat as you ride. Unless you continually 'top off' with carbs you'll soon be out of glucose anyway and will have to burn fat for energy. I think they call it 'the bonk'. I've just come to the conclusion that I don't like riding that long or that hard. If I can't finish my riding in a 5-6 hour day, I'm going to do the sensible thing and take a rest, eat some food and go to sleep until the next day. The best post ride food in my mind would be the same thing I eat normally just a little more of it. For protein, eggs or fish seem to digest better for me than a steak but the fat in the steak satiates better after exercising. I also like the way I feel eating primarily vegetables and meat. During a ride you askI eat fruit or nuts or berries maybe even a little turkey jerky or a teriyaki stick. Most of my riding these days however is two hours at a time or less so I rarely eat when I ride and just drink some water. I've also taken to riding my new SimpleOne and I've changed the way I ride and do more gut busting climbing coupled with easy spinning and coasting and some high velocity spinning for the fast twitch fibers. Kind of a interval type of thing like when I commute to work from light to light. On the few longer rides I've done I slow my pace quite a bit and plod along. On Aug 14, 5:30 pm, reynoldslugs be...@perrylaw.net wrote: Sorry to resuscitate a dying thread, but here goes: I like the way the Taubes/Paleo makes me feel - -won't rehash. Problem I have is long rides - - 4 to 12 hours. I have not figured out the Taubesian foods work to keep you going during the ride, or how to handle that feeling of post-ride starvation. What do you eat during the ride, and how do you handle the post-ride meal? I don't think I should be putting Candy Bars in my Candy Bar Bag, but hard boiled eggs and raw broccoli aren't getting me through the long days. Any suggestions? Thanks. I know this post is not really Rivendell related, and the Candy Bar Bag humor is weak. RL -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
I've had a tough time with this aspect of long rides, paleo or not, and tend to get a sweet stomach from gatorade, energy gels, blocks, etc, but on longer rides I bonk if I don't eat, which ruins the ride (or hike or ski, or whatever) and presents a dilemma. I tend to do best eating eggs, sausage and a small serving of potatoes for breakfast and then eating food along the way, be it pizza or a sandwich with fruit, especially apples, and maybe some carrot sticks and cucumbers. I'd probably eat meatloaf and mashed potatoes if my mom were to meet me along the way. I'm going to try grilled cheese sandwiches this winter. The pizza and sandwich are not paleo for sure, but I'm more interested in avoiding the bonk while not getting nauseous, and I don't know how it matters when you're burning 5,000 calories on the ride. I'm obviously not a nutritionist and perhaps there is a precise way to dose yourself with pure paleo food and not bonk but in the make-it-up-as-I-go-along world this is the best I've come up with. I usually do not eat anything on rides shorter than 3 hours which seems to work well for me. My brother-in-law developed the Pro-Bar which is one of the more palatable bars (lots of fat, seeds, etc.) and I keep one in my saddle bag as a back up. I asked him about a digestible energy source for long events and he said he tells cross-country skiers and distance cyclists to take a baked potato in a ziplock with a little olive oil and salt. You could take it a step further and make it a yam or a sweet potato. Put it in a rubbermaid container in your saddle bag. Each potato comes out around 200 calories and slightly less than 50 grams of easily digested carbohydrate. Its gotta taste better than the crap they serve at the aid stations at most century rides and Mark Sisson seems to be generally approving of potatoes as an energy source. The real challenge for me is the day after the long ride. The day of the ride my appetite tends to be suppressed by the activity (especially if its hot) but it comes back with a vengeance the next day which makes diet compliance difficult. I spent today fantasizing about a Margherita pizza for instance and I started salivating just reading the post above about jamon with manchego on baguette. Still working on tweaking the post long ride menu. On Aug 15, 8:29 pm, charlie cl_v...@hotmail.com wrote: Well you have to ask yourself the real question.that is, If you are eating paleo are you exercising paleo? Unless you are riding at a lower pace (similar to the output of a walker) you will need to consume a higher amount of carbohydrate. Fruit and veggies are the natural thing for that. If you are riding 4-12 hours, eat fats, protein, veggies, nuts, fruit just like when you are not riding. This assumes you are trying to burn fat as you ride. Unless you continually 'top off' with carbs you'll soon be out of glucose anyway and will have to burn fat for energy. I think they call it 'the bonk'. I've just come to the conclusion that I don't like riding that long or that hard. If I can't finish my riding in a 5-6 hour day, I'm going to do the sensible thing and take a rest, eat some food and go to sleep until the next day. The best post ride food in my mind would be the same thing I eat normally just a little more of it. For protein, eggs or fish seem to digest better for me than a steak but the fat in the steak satiates better after exercising. I also like the way I feel eating primarily vegetables and meat. During a ride you askI eat fruit or nuts or berries maybe even a little turkey jerky or a teriyaki stick. Most of my riding these days however is two hours at a time or less so I rarely eat when I ride and just drink some water. I've also taken to riding my new SimpleOne and I've changed the way I ride and do more gut busting climbing coupled with easy spinning and coasting and some high velocity spinning for the fast twitch fibers. Kind of a interval type of thing like when I commute to work from light to light. On the few longer rides I've done I slow my pace quite a bit and plod along. On Aug 14, 5:30 pm, reynoldslugs be...@perrylaw.net wrote: Sorry to resuscitate a dying thread, but here goes: I like the way the Taubes/Paleo makes me feel - -won't rehash. Problem I have is long rides - - 4 to 12 hours. I have not figured out the Taubesian foods work to keep you going during the ride, or how to handle that feeling of post-ride starvation. What do you eat during the ride, and how do you handle the post-ride meal? I don't think I should be putting Candy Bars in my Candy Bar Bag, but hard boiled eggs and raw broccoli aren't getting me through the long days. Any suggestions? Thanks. I know this post is not really Rivendell related, and the Candy Bar Bag humor is weak. RL -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to
[RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
macadamia nuts, pepperoni or salami, some almonds, fruit. i have also seen some crazy paleo bar and cookie recipes, but they tend to use tons of honey. not sure how i feel about those. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/OaoqGbM3l7EJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
Thanks for the replies. I'm going in for fruit. Dates and Prunes. How Many Pitts to Pittsburgh? Thanks. RL -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
Oysters http://www.flickr.com/photos/47116230@N00/5847096590/ :-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/6u7EO0Sa4msJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
You can get Garth's suggestion of dates with Zach's for nuts in the pre-fab form of a Lara bar. Despite the variety of flavors, they're all basically some combination of nuts and dates or other dried fruits, with no added sugar or other b.s. I like the one called cashew cookie. Peanut butter is good too, as is cherry pie. I usually crave salty things on long rides. If I want to bring real food rather than a bar, I usually bring a small sandwich of prosciutto (or jamon serrano) and cheese, like Manchego, with no condiment. I usually use french baguette as the bread, because it holds its shape, doesn't crumble, and has some toothiness to it when you bite into it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/GkA_M5YRHuYJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would Taubes put in a Boxy (or Candy Bar) Bag for a long ride
Nuts. I really enjoy the challenge of shelling and consuming pistachios while riding up steep grades. Bonus: it helps improve bicycle handling skills. Seriously, I enjoy almonds, walnuts, pecans, macadamia. My riding buddies and I make homemade Larabars to consume during longer rides. Here's a good recipe: Chopped dates (fresh, I like fresh medjool, don't forget to remove the seed!) Almonds or pecans or both (roasted) Dried Pineapple (unsweetened) Dried Cranberries (unsweetened) Dark Chocolate Chips (80% and above, semi-sweet) Sea Salt Dried Shredded Coconut (unsweetened) Combine dates, almonds, pineapple, cranberries, chocolate chips and sea salt in a food processor until mixed. I like texture so mine remains plenty chunky. Divide mixture into single-sized servings and roll and shape into bicycle wheel hubs. Roll into shredded coconut to coat and to prevent super-sticky fingers and refrigerate until hard. Cover with plastic wrap and take them on your rides to eat and share with friends. They'll love you for the yummy treats. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/gUN6kjfzVJ0J. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
