Re: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv
Just a semi-related observation: One of the things I noticed the other day I'd fired up the MapMyRide app, which used to just have bike/run/walk, etc then later it added road bike, and mountain bike. So my surprise was, it had multiple categories: Road Cycling, Mountain Bike, Fixed Gear, Cruiser, and Touring Bike. So, I selected touring bike, although I was just riding my local greenbelt...it seemed to be the most applicable... FWIW -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv
how much do you wanna bet? The '92 Trek 790 Hybrid came standard with 40 mm tires. I rode an early 80's Univega Gran Rally ( road bike) that had Nitto rando bars and 32mm tires in the early '80's. There have always been road oriented bikes with fatter tires. Time to take off the rose colored glasses 8^P ~mike On Sunday, October 19, 2014 7:54:25 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: I bet the tires size on all bikes has grown over the last 20 years. Hybrids previously had 30mm tires, now have 35 or 40. Even MTB widths have grown with the advent of fat bikes. Those obviously aren't related to Rivendell, but I do believe that the acceptance of fatter tires across the board has been helped tremendously by Grant P and Rivendell. On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Steve Palincsar pali...@his.com javascript: wrote: On 10/19/2014 03:08 PM, Mike Schiller wrote: as far as I know... the demi balloon tire resurgence started in Japan with some die-hard French Cyclo-touring folks who got the Hetre made. Jan imported them to the US and started riding that kind of bike. Certainly Grant was an influence in parallel for fat tired bikes in today's market, and deserves some credit. Let's not forget the Saluki: the first 650B bike to be sold in the US since the 1980s. Also, many road bikes in the 70's and 80's had room for 32-35mm tires. Raleigh and Trek come to mind. There does appear to be a boom in that market today, but it's still a tiny fly on a donkey's hind end in total bike sales. Is that really true? What percentage of the total bike market is made up of narrow-tired road racers? Certainly MTBs, hybrids comfort bikes would have to fall into the wide-tire camp. Just going by shelf-space alloted to the various types of bikes in the LBSs I visit I'd have to say that it appears to be closer to 50% than a tiny fly on a donkey's hind end. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv
I like my glasses! On Monday, October 20, 2014 8:55:34 AM UTC-7, Mike Schiller wrote: how much do you wanna bet? The '92 Trek 790 Hybrid came standard with 40 mm tires. I rode an early 80's Univega Gran Rally ( road bike) that had Nitto rando bars and 32mm tires in the early '80's. There have always been road oriented bikes with fatter tires. Time to take off the rose colored glasses 8^P ~mike On Sunday, October 19, 2014 7:54:25 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: I bet the tires size on all bikes has grown over the last 20 years. Hybrids previously had 30mm tires, now have 35 or 40. Even MTB widths have grown with the advent of fat bikes. Those obviously aren't related to Rivendell, but I do believe that the acceptance of fatter tires across the board has been helped tremendously by Grant P and Rivendell. On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Steve Palincsar pali...@his.com wrote: On 10/19/2014 03:08 PM, Mike Schiller wrote: as far as I know... the demi balloon tire resurgence started in Japan with some die-hard French Cyclo-touring folks who got the Hetre made. Jan imported them to the US and started riding that kind of bike. Certainly Grant was an influence in parallel for fat tired bikes in today's market, and deserves some credit. Let's not forget the Saluki: the first 650B bike to be sold in the US since the 1980s. Also, many road bikes in the 70's and 80's had room for 32-35mm tires. Raleigh and Trek come to mind. There does appear to be a boom in that market today, but it's still a tiny fly on a donkey's hind end in total bike sales. Is that really true? What percentage of the total bike market is made up of narrow-tired road racers? Certainly MTBs, hybrids comfort bikes would have to fall into the wide-tire camp. Just going by shelf-space alloted to the various types of bikes in the LBSs I visit I'd have to say that it appears to be closer to 50% than a tiny fly on a donkey's hind end. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv
Totally agree with that observation. But I wasn't biking in 1994, so am unable to speak from experience there. Wonder how much the 29er concept also influenced the bikes? As to the QBP brands, I'm not sure. From what I have read, they are pretty indepdent of each other. As in they don't all sit around and decide who is going to develop what type of bike. Not even sure they communicate that much while working. From photos I've seen they all have different office areas. Definitely run by distinct groups of people. With individual marketing concepts. For the record, I like most of the Surly marketing, even though I don't have a beard, tattoos or drink adult beverages under bridges or next to barrel fires. Mainly because it is different. And that is something I can identify with. Different. Eric Platt St. Paul, MN On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 9:44 PM, cyclotourist cyclotour...@gmail.com wrote: I think the growth and acceptance of large tire sizes definitely happened on Grant's/Rivendell's watch and he can humbly take the majority of credit for it. He obviously didn't invent the concept of a demi-ballon tire, and others were working in tandem (Jan, Surly, etc), but in modern mainstream cycling, the concept was lost. Think about it: Prior to 1994, what was considered a large road bike (not touring) tire was 28mm. That grew to 33.3mm, and now it's a full 42mm! There are plenty of MCRBs that still barely fit a 28, but people don't question larger tires. One of my local buddies who is fully into the local carbon crit scene was complaining how the fenders on his commuter couldn't fit his new 35mm Kojaks. The times they have a' changed! Alt topic: Did not know that about All City being a QBP brand. Anybody know how distinct and the level of independence the various QBP marques have? On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 5:16 PM, Eric Platt epericmpl...@gmail.com wrote: A couple of days ago, someone asked what type of Dutch bike my Sam Hillborne was. He was quite serious and shocked when I informed him the bike was modern and designed in California. This was actually the first time I'd been on a trip up to Grand Marais, MN with a Rivendell. Previous trips had been with either a Surly or Salsa. Oh, and don't forget that All City bikes is also a QBP product. Sort of their own niche. And in seeing the numbers of them around here, replacing the Surly Cross Check as the standard bike of the Twin Cities. Eric Platt St. Paul, MN On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 11:24 AM, Cyclofiend Jim cyclofi...@earthlink.net wrote: You can always remove decals... What kind of bike is that? Steel ? Just in case some folks didn't know, Surly is a brand (like Salsa now, among others) owned by QBP (Quality Bicycle Products) which is the largest wholesaler of bike parts accessories within the US. That means that if you are a QBP dealer (which most shops are), you can stock Surly bikes. For a smaller dealer, this means that you can offer models without having the necessarily pre-order a container load. This a good thing for independent dealers and good thing for folks who have wanted options from what the brand-intensive shops stock. They focused on an underserved (heck, at the time _UN_served) part of the market and have executed well for a while now. - Jim / cyclofiend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
Re: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv
A few months back I was reflecting on some of these things and Riv's influence in a piece I wrote that some might find worth a read. It's kind of amazing to think it's been so long since I first got my first Bstone and then my late 90s era AllRounder. I've seen quite the evolution over the years in the industry and been writing about it in one way or the other for (gasp) 9 years now. Crazy. My only bstone is now a resurrectio: http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/2014/07/introducing-reno-rambler-resurrectio.html?q=rivendell http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/2014/07/rivendell-bicycle-workshas-vindication.html?q=rivendell Happy Sunday and hope everyone gets out for a ride on this fine fall day! Addison Wilhite, M.A. Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology http://www.washoeschools.net/aact *“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”* Educator: Professional Portfolio http://addisonwilhite.blogspot.com/ Blogger: Reno Rambler http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/ Bicycle Advocate: Regional Transportation Commission, Bicycle Pedestrian Advisory Committee http://www.rtcwashoe.com/public-transportation-22-124.html On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 5:41 AM, Eric Platt epericmpl...@gmail.com wrote: Totally agree with that observation. But I wasn't biking in 1994, so am unable to speak from experience there. Wonder how much the 29er concept also influenced the bikes? As to the QBP brands, I'm not sure. From what I have read, they are pretty indepdent of each other. As in they don't all sit around and decide who is going to develop what type of bike. Not even sure they communicate that much while working. From photos I've seen they all have different office areas. Definitely run by distinct groups of people. With individual marketing concepts. For the record, I like most of the Surly marketing, even though I don't have a beard, tattoos or drink adult beverages under bridges or next to barrel fires. Mainly because it is different. And that is something I can identify with. Different. Eric Platt St. Paul, MN On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 9:44 PM, cyclotourist cyclotour...@gmail.com wrote: I think the growth and acceptance of large tire sizes definitely happened on Grant's/Rivendell's watch and he can humbly take the majority of credit for it. He obviously didn't invent the concept of a demi-ballon tire, and others were working in tandem (Jan, Surly, etc), but in modern mainstream cycling, the concept was lost. Think about it: Prior to 1994, what was considered a large road bike (not touring) tire was 28mm. That grew to 33.3mm, and now it's a full 42mm! There are plenty of MCRBs that still barely fit a 28, but people don't question larger tires. One of my local buddies who is fully into the local carbon crit scene was complaining how the fenders on his commuter couldn't fit his new 35mm Kojaks. The times they have a' changed! Alt topic: Did not know that about All City being a QBP brand. Anybody know how distinct and the level of independence the various QBP marques have? On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 5:16 PM, Eric Platt epericmpl...@gmail.com wrote: A couple of days ago, someone asked what type of Dutch bike my Sam Hillborne was. He was quite serious and shocked when I informed him the bike was modern and designed in California. This was actually the first time I'd been on a trip up to Grand Marais, MN with a Rivendell. Previous trips had been with either a Surly or Salsa. Oh, and don't forget that All City bikes is also a QBP product. Sort of their own niche. And in seeing the numbers of them around here, replacing the Surly Cross Check as the standard bike of the Twin Cities. Eric Platt St. Paul, MN On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 11:24 AM, Cyclofiend Jim cyclofi...@earthlink.net wrote: You can always remove decals... What kind of bike is that? Steel ? Just in case some folks didn't know, Surly is a brand (like Salsa now, among others) owned by QBP (Quality Bicycle Products) which is the largest wholesaler of bike parts accessories within the US. That means that if you are a QBP dealer (which most shops are), you can stock Surly bikes. For a smaller dealer, this means that you can offer models without having the necessarily pre-order a container load. This a good thing for independent dealers and good thing for folks who have wanted options from what the brand-intensive shops stock. They focused on an underserved (heck, at the time _UN_served) part of the market and have executed well for a while now. - Jim / cyclofiend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit
Re: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv
Addison, Love the post. I have one of the tee shirts in size large in pretty good/ great shape if you are interested. Let me know if you are interested. Chris -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv
as far as I know... the demi balloon tire resurgence started in Japan with some die-hard French Cyclo-touring folks who got the Hetre made. Jan imported them to the US and started riding that kind of bike. Certainly Grant was an influence in parallel for fat tired bikes in today's market, and deserves some credit. Also, many road bikes in the 70's and 80's had room for 32-35mm tires. Raleigh and Trek come to mind. There does appear to be a boom in that market today, but it's still a tiny fly on a donkey's hind end in total bike sales. ~mike Carlsbad Ca. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv
On 10/19/2014 03:08 PM, Mike Schiller wrote: as far as I know... the demi balloon tire resurgence started in Japan with some die-hard French Cyclo-touring folks who got the Hetre made. Jan imported them to the US and started riding that kind of bike. Certainly Grant was an influence in parallel for fat tired bikes in today's market, and deserves some credit. Let's not forget the Saluki: the first 650B bike to be sold in the US since the 1980s. Also, many road bikes in the 70's and 80's had room for 32-35mm tires. Raleigh and Trek come to mind. There does appear to be a boom in that market today, but it's still a tiny fly on a donkey's hind end in total bike sales. Is that really true? What percentage of the total bike market is made up of narrow-tired road racers? Certainly MTBs, hybrids comfort bikes would have to fall into the wide-tire camp. Just going by shelf-space alloted to the various types of bikes in the LBSs I visit I'd have to say that it appears to be closer to 50% than a tiny fly on a donkey's hind end. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv
I was referring to the road bike market not all bikes. That excludes hybrids/touring/cross/MTB bikes. That was what the original comment David made referenced. ~mike On Sunday, October 19, 2014 12:55:34 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 10/19/2014 03:08 PM, Mike Schiller wrote: Also, many road bikes in the 70's and 80's had room for 32-35mm tires. Raleigh and Trek come to mind. There does appear to be a boom in that market today, but it's still a tiny fly on a donkey's hind end in total bike sales. Is that really true? What percentage of the total bike market is made up of narrow-tired road racers? Certainly MTBs, hybrids comfort bikes would have to fall into the wide-tire camp. Just going by shelf-space alloted to the various types of bikes in the LBSs I visit I'd have to say that it appears to be closer to 50% than a tiny fly on a donkey's hind end. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv
Surely Shirley rides a Surly through the slurry surreptitiously. (But we'll never know because she's so good!) Grin. With abandon, Patrick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv
No, didn't want to make it sound like Grant invented or even re-invented the idea. But I think the *acceptance* of large tires on road bikes is hugely a result of pushes he (and others!) made over the last 20 years. The folks that run 42mm as their *narrow* tires aren't representative of the recreational biking world, but I think the growth of bikes that can accept a tire that large is significant. Just today, I tagged along with the local bike club's weekend social ride, and I wasn't even the one with the fattest tires there! On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 12:08 PM, Mike Schiller mikeybi...@rocketmail.com wrote: as far as I know... the demi balloon tire resurgence started in Japan with some die-hard French Cyclo-touring folks who got the Hetre made. Jan imported them to the US and started riding that kind of bike. Certainly Grant was an influence in parallel for fat tired bikes in today's market, and deserves some credit. Also, many road bikes in the 70's and 80's had room for 32-35mm tires. Raleigh and Trek come to mind. There does appear to be a boom in that market today, but it's still a tiny fly on a donkey's hind end in total bike sales. ~mike Carlsbad Ca. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv
I bet the tires size on all bikes has grown over the last 20 years. Hybrids previously had 30mm tires, now have 35 or 40. Even MTB widths have grown with the advent of fat bikes. Those obviously aren't related to Rivendell, but I do believe that the acceptance of fatter tires across the board has been helped tremendously by Grant P and Rivendell. On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On 10/19/2014 03:08 PM, Mike Schiller wrote: as far as I know... the demi balloon tire resurgence started in Japan with some die-hard French Cyclo-touring folks who got the Hetre made. Jan imported them to the US and started riding that kind of bike. Certainly Grant was an influence in parallel for fat tired bikes in today's market, and deserves some credit. Let's not forget the Saluki: the first 650B bike to be sold in the US since the 1980s. Also, many road bikes in the 70's and 80's had room for 32-35mm tires. Raleigh and Trek come to mind. There does appear to be a boom in that market today, but it's still a tiny fly on a donkey's hind end in total bike sales. Is that really true? What percentage of the total bike market is made up of narrow-tired road racers? Certainly MTBs, hybrids comfort bikes would have to fall into the wide-tire camp. Just going by shelf-space alloted to the various types of bikes in the LBSs I visit I'd have to say that it appears to be closer to 50% than a tiny fly on a donkey's hind end. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv
I agree with Steve P about the idea of being associated with a brand persona. I'm not really sure that Surly's current marketing is all that crazy though, is it? What I've seen is mostly touting their products' technical attributes and capabilities. Maybe it's perceived as more abrasive than it is because the name Surly sounds confrontational. If the brand name was something more evocative of quaintness or nostalgia or France, then maybe there would be a different perception. For me, I think the Surly bikes are great. I also think it's nice that they make it possible to peel off the decals for anyone who doesn't want to display the brand identification. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv
If I like the clem after a test ride I'll deal with the stigma :p On Friday, October 17, 2014 1:28:35 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote: And yet, if a company's advertising/perceived attitude is strong enough, bystanders will associate anyone displaying or using one of their products with the attitudes portrayed in the advertising, and you might not necessarily want yourself identified with those attitudes. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv
You can always remove decals... What kind of bike is that? Steel ? Just in case some folks didn't know, Surly is a brand (like Salsa now, among others) owned by QBP (Quality Bicycle Products) which is the largest wholesaler of bike parts accessories within the US. That means that if you are a QBP dealer (which most shops are), you can stock Surly bikes. For a smaller dealer, this means that you can offer models without having the necessarily pre-order a container load. This a good thing for independent dealers and good thing for folks who have wanted options from what the brand-intensive shops stock. They focused on an underserved (heck, at the time _UN_served) part of the market and have executed well for a while now. - Jim / cyclofiend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv
exactly Jim, Surly (and Salsa) is bringing steel bikes to mainstream bike shops - steel bikes that are something more than 3-speed cruisers. On Saturday, October 18, 2014 11:24:40 AM UTC-5, Cyclofiend Jim wrote: You can always remove decals... What kind of bike is that? Steel ? Just in case some folks didn't know, Surly is a brand (like Salsa now, among others) owned by QBP (Quality Bicycle Products) which is the largest wholesaler of bike parts accessories within the US. That means that if you are a QBP dealer (which most shops are), you can stock Surly bikes. For a smaller dealer, this means that you can offer models without having the necessarily pre-order a container load. This a good thing for independent dealers and good thing for folks who have wanted options from what the brand-intensive shops stock. They focused on an underserved (heck, at the time _UN_served) part of the market and have executed well for a while now. - Jim / cyclofiend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv
IMO it's a boon that a huge company like QBP is financially backing a group like Surly...not all can or want to support the mom pop companies, sometimes I just don't want to pay the premium. Not everyone wants to purchase a Mercedes, choosing rather to buy (insert brand) instead. I've had discussions with others in the past revolve around the notion of scaling back our desires, how much do I need? The n+1 + 1...factor is a favorite on this list serve. I have two bikes and two incomplete's hanging in the rafters...there will be a purge (not the Rivendell's mind you) at some point. If I purchase another bike in the future I'll have a small frame builder make it. I've made the choice to buy my bicycles and most parts from Riv to support a small company for a number of reasons. 1. They design great all round bikes and other accessories. 2. As far as I can tell they're not in it to grow like so many traditional companies always looking for profit growth. 3.They do a great job with customer service and genuinely want to help you. 4.They're really nice people. 5. The ethos they promote. In our day to day lives we make countess decisions effectively voting with our money which have an effect beyond our own needs. It can be difficult to take the time to research all decisions. For me I'd rather go without something and have my Rivendell's. It's a personal choice. Either way if you have a Surly or Riv love the ride and be you regardless of all external pressures. Hugh my two cents Smitham Los Angeles, CA On Saturday, October 18, 2014 9:24:40 AM UTC-7, Cyclofiend Jim wrote: You can always remove decals... What kind of bike is that? Steel ? Just in case some folks didn't know, Surly is a brand (like Salsa now, among others) owned by QBP (Quality Bicycle Products) which is the largest wholesaler of bike parts accessories within the US. That means that if you are a QBP dealer (which most shops are), you can stock Surly bikes. For a smaller dealer, this means that you can offer models without having the necessarily pre-order a container load. This a good thing for independent dealers and good thing for folks who have wanted options from what the brand-intensive shops stock. They focused on an underserved (heck, at the time _UN_served) part of the market and have executed well for a while now. - Jim / cyclofiend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv
On 10/17/2014 05:29 PM, Daniel D. wrote: If I like the clem after a test ride I'll deal with the stigma :p On Friday, October 17, 2014 1:28:35 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote: And yet, if a company's advertising/perceived attitude is strong enough, bystanders will associate anyone displaying or using one of their products with the attitudes portrayed in the advertising, and you might not necessarily want yourself identified with those attitudes. I never said there was any stigma associated with the Riv brand. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv
A couple of days ago, someone asked what type of Dutch bike my Sam Hillborne was. He was quite serious and shocked when I informed him the bike was modern and designed in California. This was actually the first time I'd been on a trip up to Grand Marais, MN with a Rivendell. Previous trips had been with either a Surly or Salsa. Oh, and don't forget that All City bikes is also a QBP product. Sort of their own niche. And in seeing the numbers of them around here, replacing the Surly Cross Check as the standard bike of the Twin Cities. Eric Platt St. Paul, MN On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 11:24 AM, Cyclofiend Jim cyclofi...@earthlink.net wrote: You can always remove decals... What kind of bike is that? Steel ? Just in case some folks didn't know, Surly is a brand (like Salsa now, among others) owned by QBP (Quality Bicycle Products) which is the largest wholesaler of bike parts accessories within the US. That means that if you are a QBP dealer (which most shops are), you can stock Surly bikes. For a smaller dealer, this means that you can offer models without having the necessarily pre-order a container load. This a good thing for independent dealers and good thing for folks who have wanted options from what the brand-intensive shops stock. They focused on an underserved (heck, at the time _UN_served) part of the market and have executed well for a while now. - Jim / cyclofiend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv
I think the growth and acceptance of large tire sizes definitely happened on Grant's/Rivendell's watch and he can humbly take the majority of credit for it. He obviously didn't invent the concept of a demi-ballon tire, and others were working in tandem (Jan, Surly, etc), but in modern mainstream cycling, the concept was lost. Think about it: Prior to 1994, what was considered a large road bike (not touring) tire was 28mm. That grew to 33.3mm, and now it's a full 42mm! There are plenty of MCRBs that still barely fit a 28, but people don't question larger tires. One of my local buddies who is fully into the local carbon crit scene was complaining how the fenders on his commuter couldn't fit his new 35mm Kojaks. The times they have a' changed! Alt topic: Did not know that about All City being a QBP brand. Anybody know how distinct and the level of independence the various QBP marques have? On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 5:16 PM, Eric Platt epericmpl...@gmail.com wrote: A couple of days ago, someone asked what type of Dutch bike my Sam Hillborne was. He was quite serious and shocked when I informed him the bike was modern and designed in California. This was actually the first time I'd been on a trip up to Grand Marais, MN with a Rivendell. Previous trips had been with either a Surly or Salsa. Oh, and don't forget that All City bikes is also a QBP product. Sort of their own niche. And in seeing the numbers of them around here, replacing the Surly Cross Check as the standard bike of the Twin Cities. Eric Platt St. Paul, MN On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 11:24 AM, Cyclofiend Jim cyclofi...@earthlink.net wrote: You can always remove decals... What kind of bike is that? Steel ? Just in case some folks didn't know, Surly is a brand (like Salsa now, among others) owned by QBP (Quality Bicycle Products) which is the largest wholesaler of bike parts accessories within the US. That means that if you are a QBP dealer (which most shops are), you can stock Surly bikes. For a smaller dealer, this means that you can offer models without having the necessarily pre-order a container load. This a good thing for independent dealers and good thing for folks who have wanted options from what the brand-intensive shops stock. They focused on an underserved (heck, at the time _UN_served) part of the market and have executed well for a while now. - Jim / cyclofiend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv
how can you tell what you want if they don't tell you what you want?! :) On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Garth garth...@gmail.com wrote: I don't buy things based on a company's advertising or perceived attitude. The only thing that matters to me is is it what I really really want ? ! ! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- I want the kind of six pack you can't drink. -- Micah -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv
On 10/17/2014 03:09 PM, Garth wrote: I don't buy things based on a company's advertising or perceived attitude. The only thing that matters to me is is it what I really really want ? ! ! And yet, if a company's advertising/perceived attitude is strong enough, bystanders will associate anyone displaying or using one of their products with the attitudes portrayed in the advertising, and you might not necessarily want yourself identified with those attitudes. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv
The moment I cater to what other people think of who/what I associate with , I become their slave . All my life I have associated with whomever and whatever I desire , not without discord of course, but if I don't listen to and trust myself and my desires I imprison myself to their wants and desires which are fickle and always changing and never satisfied . Endless h e double toothpick ! It's much funner being Free ! On Friday, October 17, 2014 4:28:35 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote: And yet, if a company's advertising/perceived attitude is strong enough, bystanders will associate anyone displaying or using one of their products with the attitudes portrayed in the advertising, and you might not necessarily want yourself identified with those attitudes. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv
I fully support the things that Surly is doing. I even looked at an XXL Ogre Disc the other day. I've never seen a frame with so many fork eyelets, and eyelets in general. Can run 29x2.3 or 700Cx40-something with fenders. Very versatile. No, not as attractive as a Rivendell, and probably doesn't ride as good, but if I needed a vehicle to ride on a 3000 mile tour and I needed it ASAP, the XXL Ogre would be hard to argue with. MSRP is $1700 complete but my shop said they could sell it to me for $1500. Even if I had the time to wait for it, I don't think I could justify replacing my custom Rivendell with another custom Rivendell should I ever have a need to do so. $3500 is a lot of bones. Maybe a 71AHH, but even that might be a stretch when there are many other nice steel frames in the marketplace. It would be hard to talk me out of a Boulder All Road custom - tigged for $1685 or lugged for $1995. A 64cm Sam Hillborne might have been my first choice but now that is going out of production. :( No matter though, I am happy with the 2 Rivendells that I now own and hopefully won't have a need to replace them anytime soon. On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 6:57 AM, Ron Mc bulldog...@gmail.com wrote: Exactly. Garth beat me to it. Remember Not Ready for Primetime Players? In a way, Surly is Not Ready for Rivendell. It's tough to justify a $3000 bike. Surly is in a good place in the market. The MegaBikeShops all carry Surly, so it's good see them as a serious steel bike entry in the throwaway mass market. Not belittling the bike as much as our economy. Grant builds an instant classic, by design, even by making every model a limited edition. Every Rivendell will always be great. On Tuesday, October 14, 2014 6:47:34 AM UTC-5, Garth wrote: Imitation is the greatest form of flattery -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv
Yeah, I hate those Riv guys, they just make copies of vintage Raleigh Internationals and old French bikes. --end sarcasm-- Most bike problems have been solved by our inventive ancestors. Grant, Jan, Sheldon and others have reminded us that almost every new product was first in The Data Book http://www.cyclepublishing.com/cyclingbooks/db.html years ago. Surly and Riv both do a good job of creating practical solutions for bicycles. Grant does it with an emphasis on aesthetic, where Surly's designs are more no-nonsense (and more approachably priced). I applaud both for sticking to their guns and doing what they want, and for the influence they've had on the industry in spite of what the big guys are doing. At the same time, I don't feel I owe either brand my unending loyalty. I don't feel constrained to buy a Riv if I want a fancy country bike; now I could buy from several makers of stylish bicycles (thankfully, I found a used Riv). Similarly, I don't feel constrained to buy a Surly if I want a fat bike; I just bought a Specialized Fatboy yesterday after much anguished comparison to Surly's offerings (I work in a shop that carries Spec and Surly). On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 9:49 AM, iamkeith keithhar...@gmail.com wrote: I LOVE Surly. I was the one who put that Racing Sucks thread up on the list here, and I know I've said that the LHT is a copy of the All Rounder - but I never meant to imply that they were followers and not leaders in their own right. I just find the similarities and parallels between the companies as interesting as the differences. Looking at the bike industry as an outsider, I'm guessing that there will always some subliminal cross-pollenation of ideas even between the true innovators, but I also think it's possible for different people/companies to come to similar conclusions in different ways.I personally found and fell in love with Rivendell because they shared convictions that I already had, about the folly of letting racing drive fashion, and of advancing technology strictly for marketing sake. (And I'd never quit wearing wool, either.) I'm not convinced Surly isn't just coming from the same place. The irony, as we all know of course, is that BOTH companies actually end up influencing design trends more than all others combined - just in a positive way. (Maybe Jeff Jones would be the only other in the same category?) But here's the thing: Speaking as a mountain biker foremost, I'll even say that Surly, with their fat tire advancements and smart bikes that are accessible to more people, has done *more* to improve the sport than anyone in 30 years - including Rivendell. On Monday, October 13, 2014 9:55:41 PM UTC-6, Bruce Smitham wrote: OK, I'll admit that I own a Surly Pacer and have owned a LHT to get me down the coast of California in the summer when my a Soma San Marcos build didn't work out. I am disappointed in Surly these days. The Racing Sucks is so close to Un-Racer and now they are making wool stripped shirts that totally resemble the ones Riv is making. I just read it in their blog here: http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/the_goods_that_are_soft Bruce just a little disappointed in Surly Smitham in San Diego -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
RE: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv
What led you to choose the Fatboy? Did you also consider other fatbikes? From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Gavin Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2014 11:14 AM To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv Yeah, I hate those Riv guys, they just make copies of vintage Raleigh Internationals and old French bikes. --end sarcasm-- Most bike problems have been solved by our inventive ancestors. Grant, Jan, Sheldon and others have reminded us that almost every new product was first in The Data Bookhttp://www.cyclepublishing.com/cyclingbooks/db.html years ago. Surly and Riv both do a good job of creating practical solutions for bicycles. Grant does it with an emphasis on aesthetic, where Surly's designs are more no-nonsense (and more approachably priced). I applaud both for sticking to their guns and doing what they want, and for the influence they've had on the industry in spite of what the big guys are doing. At the same time, I don't feel I owe either brand my unending loyalty. I don't feel constrained to buy a Riv if I want a fancy country bike; now I could buy from several makers of stylish bicycles (thankfully, I found a used Riv). Similarly, I don't feel constrained to buy a Surly if I want a fat bike; I just bought a Specialized Fatboy yesterday after much anguished comparison to Surly's offerings (I work in a shop that carries Spec and Surly). On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 9:49 AM, iamkeith keithhar...@gmail.commailto:keithhar...@gmail.com wrote: I LOVE Surly. I was the one who put that Racing Sucks thread up on the list here, and I know I've said that the LHT is a copy of the All Rounder - but I never meant to imply that they were followers and not leaders in their own right. I just find the similarities and parallels between the companies as interesting as the differences. Looking at the bike industry as an outsider, I'm guessing that there will always some subliminal cross-pollenation of ideas even between the true innovators, but I also think it's possible for different people/companies to come to similar conclusions in different ways.I personally found and fell in love with Rivendell because they shared convictions that I already had, about the folly of letting racing drive fashion, and of advancing technology strictly for marketing sake. (And I'd never quit wearing wool, either.) I'm not convinced Surly isn't just coming from the same place. The irony, as we all know of course, is that BOTH companies actually end up influencing design trends more than all others combined - just in a positive way. (Maybe Jeff Jones would be the only other in the same category?) But here's the thing: Speaking as a mountain biker foremost, I'll even say that Surly, with their fat tire advancements and smart bikes that are accessible to more people, has done more to improve the sport than anyone in 30 years - including Rivendell. On Monday, October 13, 2014 9:55:41 PM UTC-6, Bruce Smitham wrote: OK, I'll admit that I own a Surly Pacer and have owned a LHT to get me down the coast of California in the summer when my a Soma San Marcos build didn't work out. I am disappointed in Surly these days. The Racing Sucks is so close to Un-Racer and now they are making wool stripped shirts that totally resemble the ones Riv is making. I just read it in their blog here: http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/the_goods_that_are_soft Bruce just a little disappointed in Surly Smitham in San Diego -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commailto:rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.commailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commailto:rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.commailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you
RE: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv
Sorry for prior post, should have taken my question off-group. From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Gavin Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2014 11:14 AM To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Surly after Riv Yeah, I hate those Riv guys, they just make copies of vintage Raleigh Internationals and old French bikes. --end sarcasm-- Most bike problems have been solved by our inventive ancestors. Grant, Jan, Sheldon and others have reminded us that almost every new product was first in The Data Bookhttp://www.cyclepublishing.com/cyclingbooks/db.html years ago. Surly and Riv both do a good job of creating practical solutions for bicycles. Grant does it with an emphasis on aesthetic, where Surly's designs are more no-nonsense (and more approachably priced). I applaud both for sticking to their guns and doing what they want, and for the influence they've had on the industry in spite of what the big guys are doing. At the same time, I don't feel I owe either brand my unending loyalty. I don't feel constrained to buy a Riv if I want a fancy country bike; now I could buy from several makers of stylish bicycles (thankfully, I found a used Riv). Similarly, I don't feel constrained to buy a Surly if I want a fat bike; I just bought a Specialized Fatboy yesterday after much anguished comparison to Surly's offerings (I work in a shop that carries Spec and Surly). On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 9:49 AM, iamkeith keithhar...@gmail.commailto:keithhar...@gmail.com wrote: I LOVE Surly. I was the one who put that Racing Sucks thread up on the list here, and I know I've said that the LHT is a copy of the All Rounder - but I never meant to imply that they were followers and not leaders in their own right. I just find the similarities and parallels between the companies as interesting as the differences. Looking at the bike industry as an outsider, I'm guessing that there will always some subliminal cross-pollenation of ideas even between the true innovators, but I also think it's possible for different people/companies to come to similar conclusions in different ways.I personally found and fell in love with Rivendell because they shared convictions that I already had, about the folly of letting racing drive fashion, and of advancing technology strictly for marketing sake. (And I'd never quit wearing wool, either.) I'm not convinced Surly isn't just coming from the same place. The irony, as we all know of course, is that BOTH companies actually end up influencing design trends more than all others combined - just in a positive way. (Maybe Jeff Jones would be the only other in the same category?) But here's the thing: Speaking as a mountain biker foremost, I'll even say that Surly, with their fat tire advancements and smart bikes that are accessible to more people, has done more to improve the sport than anyone in 30 years - including Rivendell. On Monday, October 13, 2014 9:55:41 PM UTC-6, Bruce Smitham wrote: OK, I'll admit that I own a Surly Pacer and have owned a LHT to get me down the coast of California in the summer when my a Soma San Marcos build didn't work out. I am disappointed in Surly these days. The Racing Sucks is so close to Un-Racer and now they are making wool stripped shirts that totally resemble the ones Riv is making. I just read it in their blog here: http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/the_goods_that_are_soft Bruce just a little disappointed in Surly Smitham in San Diego -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commailto:rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.commailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commailto:rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.commailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby
