Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
I second the motion. Most serious riders (racers) that I encounter have a sole focus. They know nothing about their bike, they don't use it for anything other than sporting equipment. The bike doesn't fit right, is ill-maintained, etc. but the rider has on the cutting edge kit. Looks the part, but couldn't tell you about one component on the bike. Why is that more serious than what I do? - Original Message - From: JoelMatthews To: RBW Owners Bunch Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:06 AM Subject: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike marketing of these bikes to the 52 yr old casual rider who can never get comfortable. Agree except for the assumption that people who do not race are somehow 'casual riders.' In fact, I find more the opposite to be true. Someone who uses their bike to ride to work, shop, access cultural and entertainment outlets, visit friends and relatives, and take vacations is far more serious in my eyes than someone using a bike for the sole purpose of riding faster than someone else. On Dec 4, 8:22 am, Kris kkjellqu...@gmail.com wrote: I can't see how anyone here would find this to be heresy. I think we all accept racers need a light nimble bike, but object to the marketing of these bikes to the 52 yr old casual rider who can never get comfortable. This is easily the #1 misconception about Rivendell Grant - Grant hates racing bikes and racers! On Dec 3, 8:43 pm, Bill M. bmenn...@comcast.net wrote: It may be heresy around here, but racers ride racing bikes for a reason. - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
Keven (of RBW) races CX iirc, on a Legolas. Another rider in recent memory captured a national age group title on a Legolas as well, I remember reading. I can get my Ram down to 20 lbs and race it (and it out handles many more carboneseque racers), although the problem with that is my legs don't have what it takes to succeed. And of course, the Roadeo is aimed at a go-faster crowd than the typical Hilsen rider. From: Kris kkjellqu...@gmail.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Fri, December 4, 2009 8:22:55 AM Subject: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike This is easily the #1 misconception about Rivendell Grant - Grant hates racing bikes and racers! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
RE: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
Well, I'm mostly an interested reader of the posts here, rather than an active poster/participant in the discussions. And I'm about as far from a racer as one can get -- a 56 year old guy with a recently resurrected interest in bikes and riding, prompted in equal measures by the need for better fitness and having stumbled on the fascinating iconoclastic ideas on the Riv site. But the tone of disdain for racers who aren't as interested as we are in the fine points of the bike as a beautiful machine, but simply see it as a tool for their particular kind of exercise, seems misguided to me. Any bike that's on the road -- with the possible exception of those under militantly rude riders, and I don't see racers as mostly being in that category -- ought to be seen as a plus. Critical mass is our friend, I guess is what I'm saying. Plenty of room for all types of riders, and no real utility in characterizing one type as more serious than another. -Original Message- From: JoelMatthews [mailto:joelmatth...@mac.com] Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 10:07 AM To: RBW Owners Bunch Subject: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike marketing of these bikes to the 52 yr old casual rider who can never get comfortable. Agree except for the assumption that people who do not race are somehow 'casual riders.' In fact, I find more the opposite to be true. Someone who uses their bike to ride to work, shop, access cultural and entertainment outlets, visit friends and relatives, and take vacations is far more serious in my eyes than someone using a bike for the sole purpose of riding faster than someone else. On Dec 4, 8:22 am, Kris kkjellqu...@gmail.com wrote: I can't see how anyone here would find this to be heresy. I think we all accept racers need a light nimble bike, but object to the marketing of these bikes to the 52 yr old casual rider who can never get comfortable. This is easily the #1 misconception about Rivendell Grant - Grant hates racing bikes and racers! On Dec 3, 8:43 pm, Bill M. bmenn...@comcast.net wrote: It may be heresy around here, but racers ride racing bikes for a reason. - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- To ensure compliance with Treasury Department regulations, we advise you that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice contained in this message was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any tax-related matters addressed herein. This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (and any attachments thereto) is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error please immediately notify me at (212) 735-3000 and permanently delete the original email (and any copy of any email) and any printout thereof. Further information about the firm, a list of the Partners and their professional qualifications will be provided upon request. == -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
How do you get your Ram down to 20 lbs? Do you find a few pounds difference on the bike make a noticeable difference in the ride? Thanks, Tim On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 8:44 AM, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote: Keven (of RBW) races CX iirc, on a Legolas. Another rider in recent memory captured a national age group title on a Legolas as well, I remember reading. I can get my Ram down to 20 lbs and race it (and it out handles many more carboneseque racers), although the problem with that is my legs don't have what it takes to succeed. And of course, the Roadeo is aimed at a go-faster crowd than the typical Hilsen rider. -- *From:* Kris kkjellqu...@gmail.com *To:* RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com *Sent:* Fri, December 4, 2009 8:22:55 AM *Subject:* [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike This is easily the #1 misconception about Rivendell Grant - Grant hates racing bikes and racers! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
on 12/4/09 7:11 AM, David Faller at dfal...@charter.net wrote: I second the motion. Most serious riders (racers) that I encounter have a sole focus. They know nothing about their bike, they don't use it for anything other than sporting equipment. The bike doesn't fit right, is ill-maintained, etc. but the rider has on the cutting edge kit. Looks the part, but couldn't tell you about one component on the bike. Why is that more serious than what I do? I don't really think it's appropriate to draw lines or make generalizations about most riders of any interest. Aside from that, it's really outside of the focus of this group and the topic of this thread. Thanks! - Jim / list admin -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Your Photos are needed! - http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines I thought the idea was to waste the rest of our lives together.. -- Cyril, Breaking Away -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
In a message dated 12/4/2009 10:49:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, whalen...@gmail.com writes: How do you get your Ram down to 20 lbs? Actually, pretty easy. I got mine under 20 lbs by using Campy Record 10 speed components and Mavic Ksyrium SL wheels - which I find to be indestructible. The other stuff is all Nitto, Brooks, SPD pedals. Bill Louisville, Ky -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
In a message dated 12/4/2009 1:51:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, aaron.a.tho...@gmail.com writes: Very interesting, as I'm a Campy fan. Is this the Record gruppo with alloy cranks and levers or carbon? Do you have any photos online? It's the carbon Record gruppo. I had not intended to use this with the Rambouillet frame but the dark carbon with the dark green frame looked spectacular. Sorry, no photos online. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
On Fri, 2009-12-04 at 14:30 -0800, Patrick in VT wrote: my poodles feel the same way. they take offense to being grouped in the non-sporting breed group, especially when we see all those pudgy labradors with custom collars and haughty weimaraners, who really look the part with those sleek lines but are quite clueless when it comes to actual sporting. and then there are those perfectly groomed setters that only fetch on the weekends. my dogs hike, run, swim, and retrieve regularly. they even go mountain biking with me. so, it's easy to see whey they are a bit resentful about being tagged non- sporting just because they don't hunt and participate in field activities. You know what that reminds me of? I don't think it's nice, you laughin'. You see, my mule don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughin' at him. Now if you apologize, like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:09 AM, newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com wrote: Not to throw a wrench in your plans for the AHH, but Jan Heine et. al. recently published results of an extensive test involving various tires/widths and speed, and they found that rolling resistance is a *weak* function of tire width. In other words, tire width had little to do with rolling resistance. They found that wider tires at moderate pressures are actually faster than narrow tires at high pressures. I do not have the issue of BQ (I'm working on getting a copy) but is in Vol. 5, No. 1 (Autumn 2006). Does anyone here have the article? The interview with Terry bicycles gives you all the info you'd really need, I think: http://www.terrybicycles.com/podcast/?kc=em20091120utm_medium=emailutm_source=cpmasterutm_campaign=em20091120 and it's kinda cool to listen to. -sv -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
Be aware that what Jan found to be faster are fat, *supple* tires -- not your 38 mm Paselas. The fastest tires in the test, IIRC, were some 24 mm racing tires, not because there were skinny but because they were very supple. A fat, heavy, stiff tire will all else equal be a dog comparatively speaking. On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 8:09 AM, newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.comwrote: Not to throw a wrench in your plans for the AHH, but Jan Heine et. al. recently published results of an extensive test involving various tires/widths and speed, and they found that rolling resistance is a *weak* function of tire width.In other words, tire width had little to do with rolling resistance. They found that wider tires at moderate pressures are actually faster than narrow tires at high pressures. I do not have the issue of BQ (I'm working on getting a copy) but is in Vol. 5, No. 1 (Autumn 2006). Does anyone here have the article? On Dec 3, 9:34 am, Shawn sa240...@yahoo.com wrote: Now that I have the Atlantis, I have been thinking of making my Hilsen more of a roadish type bike to use on week-end rides with my friends on our smooth local MUP. Can anyone tell me how the AHH might handle, ride and look with 25mm to 28mm tires on it. I know most people don't ride that skinny of a tire but any feed back would be appreciated. I am trying to separate the two bikes into two distinct categories; Atlantis- touring, camping, commuter= big tires; Hilsen- club rides, events, exercise, go faster=skinner tires. It seems like the Hilsen’s clearance are wasted now that I have the Atlantis. I know it sounds like I want a more traditional type road bike and the Roadeo would fit that bill perfectly, except there is the matter of finances, can’t sell the Hilsen to totally finance the Roadeo, and I am not crazy about the fact the Roadeo does not have brazeons for at least a Mark type rack. Is the Rambouillet a better road bike than the Hilsen? If so maybe I should trade or sell my Hilsen for a Rambouillet. I want to be clear that I do not want to race, I just want to make a clear distinctions between the two bikes. Sorry about the long post and thanks in advance for any advice or feedback. Shawn -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com (505) 227-0523 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Cycletex clifwrightpho...@yahoo.com wrote: I don't know. My 37mm Paselas are pretty supple. Maybe not as supple as some in the test, but when compared with other 700c tires in it's class the Pasela fairs well in suppleness and weight. The 35c pasela did really well in the performance test that was published in BQ Vol5 #1. At that time they were the fastest of the fat 700c tires tested. The surprisingly fast times of a few tires, such as the Panaracer Pasela (34.5m m wide), the Avocet Cross (34.5mm) and the Mitsoboshi Trimline (37mm) appear to be mostly due to their great width. Perhaps the Paselas aren't a good example overall, but since my Riv roads have 559 or 571 wheels, I am pretty limited in the good road tires I can find. I used 1.25 Paselas for a while but switched (on the commuter) to 22-23 mm (actual) Conti Grand Prix and Specialized Turbos because these, at least, fell faster and more nimble -- and the Paselas only weigh about 40 grams more, each -- 240 vs 200 grams. I know the Turbos, in particular, which I've used off and on for 18 years, are among my favorites and, if they came in a 28, would be even more favorite. (I have a stash of Turbos, since I believe that they haven't been made for some time.) BTW, when I say feel faster, I don't buy the more vibration makes it feel faster hypothesis; it's not vibration but smoothness and computer readouts that form my judgement. The Turbos in particular feel as smooth at 90/100 as the Paselas did a 70/80, but then the Turbos have always seemed exceptionally smooth despite their narrow width. The only other Paselas I've used recently were 27X1.25s, wire bead, and those felt like dogs; my experience, of course. Perhaps there are Paselas and Paselas. My fast preference is the 32c tg pasela. I run them on a light aluminum go-fast and I'll pick them over every other tire I own. Again, they hold there own in suppleness and weight when compared to others in their class. I ride this bike with some really fast riders here in austin with carbon and skinny's and when they drop me I never blame the tire. The engine however... now that's another story. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com (505) 227-0523 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Patrick in VT psh...@drm.com wrote: skinny tires aren't going to make you faster. They will if they weigh less. Especially if you're climbing. As anyone who has seen my green Atlantis can testify, I'm far from a weight weenie. But still, facts are facts. Lighter wheels make a difference, especially if you're climbing. -- -- Anne Paulson He who wills the ends wills the means -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
But his Woolistic jersey from RBW is spot on... From: Aaron Thomas aaron.a.tho...@gmail.com By the way, this guy's bike build was rather unconventional in Rivendell's scheme of things -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
In a message dated 12/3/2009 6:28:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, joelmatth...@mac.com writes: The Challenge tread also seems a bit more fragile than the RP/RT and is prone to get more cuts, though the cuts I've gotten so far are shallow and haven't gone through the casing (as far as I can tell). Based on everything I have read, Challenge tires have excellent components and craftsmanship. If you only ride on pavement, the tread at most establishes trade dress. Here's my experience with the Challenge tire: Had my first flat (slow leak due to road grit) at 785 miles on the rear tire. Put a kevlar liner on the rear and have ridden an additional 572 miles without a flat on either tire. All miles, except for 8 miles of gravel roads, were on paved, although at time, roughly paved roads. The tread on both tires still looks excellent. In my opinion, the Challenge tire is the best tire I have ever ridden on. It's unbelievably comfortable, fast, and the durability, admittedly after only 1357 miles, is acceptable. Bill Louisville, Ky -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: AHH as a road bike
Not that I can maintain 20 mph any more -- I could, solo, in my youthful 40s; I can still maintain 18 solo on a flat out and back -- but as to Rivs being slower because of the favored riding position, let me say ad contram that the butt back position that Rivs encourage is, for me, precisely the position that gives me a low back and a lot of power. I wish I had had my two customs made with 72 seat tube angles instead of 72; as it is, I literally use a rubber mallet to get the saddles (Flites) all the way back on the considerable-offset older Dura Ace posts. Bars on short (8 cm) stems 2 below saddle. A steeper st angle would, for me, be awkward and slow. I would not discount a Riv design for fast riding --or, for that matter, for low bars. Lastly, I am not sure, but I think that older racing bikes (I have a 1973 Motobecane Grand Record; I used to own an oldish school 1989 Falcon) have geometries similar to the Rivs: long rear-center, short front-center, slacker st angles, encouraging a butt back position good for power and good weight balance for precise handling. The Motobecane mimics my Rivs quite well -- which is why I like it. YMMV, of course. On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 6:43 PM, Bill M. bmenn...@comcast.net wrote: Shawn, This thread has taken off on wheels and tires, so I'd like to propose another factor to consider - position. I have an old Riv Road Standard that was my go-fast bike for many years. After a gap of a few years spent mostly riding a recumbent I returned to the Riv and took it on a few rides with the local club. Now, this club as a rule rides fast and hard (cruising at 20+, bursts to 28 mph on the last flatland ride I did with them), and I found that sitting relatively upright on the Riv was not working for that kind of effort. I tried adjusting the Riv for a sportier position, but wasn't able to get it to 'gel'. I wound up falling into a deal on a modern racing frame with a slightly shorter top tube and steeper seat angle than the Riv, and darned if I'm not both faster and more comfortable *for that kind of riding*. It may be heresy around here, but racers ride racing bikes for a reason. When I'm taking it easy on my own or riding with a slower friend I don't ride the racer, it would beat me up too much. That's when I ride either the Riv (with the bars back up where Grant intended and the widest tires that will fit), or my 650b wheeled Kogswell, either of which are more at home at an easier pace. The AHH is built to be even slacker and more upright than my old Riv Road was. I'd say try light wheels and tires on the AHH as a go-fast, but recognize that it may not let you get into an optimal position for sporting riding. If it's not what you need, and a new Roadeo is out of reach, start scanning Craigslist or ebay for something used that might work better for you. There are deals to be had if you're patient - my go-fast frame cost me just over 1/3 of the price of a new one, and it looked essentially new when I picked it up. Bill On Dec 3, 6:34 am, Shawn sa240...@yahoo.com wrote: Now that I have the Atlantis, I have been thinking of making my Hilsen more of a roadish type bike to use on week-end rides with my friends on our smooth local MUP. Can anyone tell me how the AHH might handle, ride and look with 25mm to 28mm tires on it. I know most people don't ride that skinny of a tire but any feed back would be appreciated. I am trying to separate the two bikes into two distinct categories; Atlantis- touring, camping, commuter= big tires; Hilsen- club rides, events, exercise, go faster=skinner tires. It seems like the Hilsen’s clearance are wasted now that I have the Atlantis. I know it sounds like I want a more traditional type road bike and the Roadeo would fit that bill perfectly, except there is the matter of finances, can’t sell the Hilsen to totally finance the Roadeo, and I am not crazy about the fact the Roadeo does not have brazeons for at least a Mark type rack. Is the Rambouillet a better road bike than the Hilsen? If so maybe I should trade or sell my Hilsen for a Rambouillet. I want to be clear that I do not want to race, I just want to make a clear distinctions between the two bikes. Sorry about the long post and thanks in advance for any advice or feedback. Shawn -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com (505) 227-0523 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
