Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki For Sale... Not Mine

[Keith Weaver]

I have been seeing this Saluki pop up on my regular Rivendell searchtempest
survey of nearby craigslist ads. See the ad here:
https://reno.craigslist.org/bik/d/reno-rivendell-saluki/7512953852.html. I
live in Reno, I'm available to help if anyone wants to buy this and finds
the seller doesn't want to deal with shipping.

Cheers,
Keith

On Tue, Aug 2, 2022 at 12:02 PM Eric Marth  wrote:

> Very cool, thanks for scraping the info for us, Max!
>
> On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 2:21:10 PM UTC-4 iamkeith wrote:
>
>> Yeah  no kidding.  That's a screaming deal on a bike that's that sought
>> after and in that condition.  Beautiful color too - not quite like my more
>> common, yellower ones that I used to call butterscotch but - I now realize
>> - aren't.   It's one of the later run ones - without the rear brake hanger
>> bridge but with more tire clearance and the wider (RC-3?) fork cown.
>> Probably still Toyo made, still has my favorite  pointy lugs and the
>> double-tapered seat stays.  Hope someone here grabs it!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 8:50:54 AM UTC-6 Joel S wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Max.  Too bad no color is mentioned, it may have been my original
>>> Saluki if it is green and has centerpulls.  That bike was just too big for
>>> me.  Bike is worth a minimum of 2k if in condition as described, maybe
>>> more.
>>>
>>> Sent from Proton Mail for iOS
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2022 at 10:25 AM, maxcr  wrote:
>>>
>>> Here you go, no connection to the seller, here is the ad info and
>>> comments:
>>>
>>> Seller: Erhard Rathsack
>>> >>
>>> I haven't ridden this bike in many years and would like to sell it. If
>>> you are interested, let me know and I can tell the bike's history, etc
>>> 56cm seat tube, 32" standover. I bought it around 2005 I think
>>> I am in Reno, if you are near would you like to check it out and ride it?
>>> The Saluki is 56st, 58tt, 32" standover, 650c wheels. The frame has very
>>> little use, less than a year and 1000 miles. The components started off on
>>> my old Bleriot which I purchased at RBW in Walnut Creek. After a few years,
>>> I swapped out the Bleriot frame for the Saluki then shortly after
>>> stopped riding the bike because my cycling commute ended. The bike is
>>> located in Reno, NV. The bike rides all Riv, really comfortable. There's a
>>> lot of Nitto, Sugino, and Silver components. I estimate the year of the
>>> bike to be in the 2005 +/- 3 years. This bike was one of the first modern
>>> era 650b bikes.
>>> I looked at what people are "asking" for Rivs on EBay and that was about
>>> $2500. I'd take less than that but I am not really sure what a fair price
>>> is. I think it would be somewhere between $1500 and $2000. I'd take any
>>> suggestions on what I should ask.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 10:17:28 AM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 I can't access either. Would be nice if someone could share a picture,
 price and location.

 On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 9:56:46 AM UTC-4 mike goldman wrote:

> https://www.facebook.com/groups/19202914712/
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki For Sale... Not Mine

[Eric Marth]

Very cool, thanks for scraping the info for us, Max!

On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 2:21:10 PM UTC-4 iamkeith wrote:

> Yeah  no kidding.  That's a screaming deal on a bike that's that sought 
> after and in that condition.  Beautiful color too - not quite like my more 
> common, yellower ones that I used to call butterscotch but - I now realize 
> - aren't.   It's one of the later run ones - without the rear brake hanger 
> bridge but with more tire clearance and the wider (RC-3?) fork cown.  
> Probably still Toyo made, still has my favorite  pointy lugs and the 
> double-tapered seat stays.  Hope someone here grabs it!
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 8:50:54 AM UTC-6 Joel S wrote:
>
>> Thanks Max.  Too bad no color is mentioned, it may have been my original 
>> Saluki if it is green and has centerpulls.  That bike was just too big for 
>> me.  Bike is worth a minimum of 2k if in condition as described, maybe 
>> more. 
>>
>> Sent from Proton Mail for iOS
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2022 at 10:25 AM, maxcr  wrote:
>>
>> Here you go, no connection to the seller, here is the ad info and 
>> comments:
>>
>> Seller: Erhard Rathsack
>> >>
>> I haven't ridden this bike in many years and would like to sell it. If 
>> you are interested, let me know and I can tell the bike's history, etc
>> 56cm seat tube, 32" standover. I bought it around 2005 I think
>> I am in Reno, if you are near would you like to check it out and ride it?
>> The Saluki is 56st, 58tt, 32" standover, 650c wheels. The frame has very 
>> little use, less than a year and 1000 miles. The components started off on 
>> my old Bleriot which I purchased at RBW in Walnut Creek. After a few years, 
>> I swapped out the Bleriot frame for the Saluki then shortly after 
>> stopped riding the bike because my cycling commute ended. The bike is 
>> located in Reno, NV. The bike rides all Riv, really comfortable. There's a 
>> lot of Nitto, Sugino, and Silver components. I estimate the year of the 
>> bike to be in the 2005 +/- 3 years. This bike was one of the first modern 
>> era 650b bikes.
>> I looked at what people are "asking" for Rivs on EBay and that was about 
>> $2500. I'd take less than that but I am not really sure what a fair price 
>> is. I think it would be somewhere between $1500 and $2000. I'd take any 
>> suggestions on what I should ask.
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 10:17:28 AM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I can't access either. Would be nice if someone could share a picture, 
>>> price and location. 
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 9:56:46 AM UTC-4 mike goldman wrote:
>>>
 https://www.facebook.com/groups/19202914712/ 

>>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki For Sale... Not Mine

[iamkeith]

Yeah  no kidding.  That's a screaming deal on a bike that's that sought 
after and in that condition.  Beautiful color too - not quite like my more 
common, yellower ones that I used to call butterscotch but - I now realize 
- aren't.   It's one of the later run ones - without the rear brake hanger 
bridge but with more tire clearance and the wider (RC-3?) fork cown.  
Probably still Toyo made, still has my favorite  pointy lugs and the 
double-tapered seat stays.  Hope someone here grabs it!



On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 8:50:54 AM UTC-6 Joel S wrote:

> Thanks Max.  Too bad no color is mentioned, it may have been my original 
> Saluki if it is green and has centerpulls.  That bike was just too big for 
> me.  Bike is worth a minimum of 2k if in condition as described, maybe 
> more. 
>
> Sent from Proton Mail for iOS
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 2, 2022 at 10:25 AM, maxcr  wrote:
>
> Here you go, no connection to the seller, here is the ad info and comments:
>
> Seller: Erhard Rathsack
> >>
> I haven't ridden this bike in many years and would like to sell it. If you 
> are interested, let me know and I can tell the bike's history, etc
> 56cm seat tube, 32" standover. I bought it around 2005 I think
> I am in Reno, if you are near would you like to check it out and ride it?
> The Saluki is 56st, 58tt, 32" standover, 650c wheels. The frame has very 
> little use, less than a year and 1000 miles. The components started off on 
> my old Bleriot which I purchased at RBW in Walnut Creek. After a few years, 
> I swapped out the Bleriot frame for the Saluki then shortly after stopped 
> riding the bike because my cycling commute ended. The bike is located in 
> Reno, NV. The bike rides all Riv, really comfortable. There's a lot of 
> Nitto, Sugino, and Silver components. I estimate the year of the bike to be 
> in the 2005 +/- 3 years. This bike was one of the first modern era 650b 
> bikes.
> I looked at what people are "asking" for Rivs on EBay and that was about 
> $2500. I'd take less than that but I am not really sure what a fair price 
> is. I think it would be somewhere between $1500 and $2000. I'd take any 
> suggestions on what I should ask.
>
> On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 10:17:28 AM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I can't access either. Would be nice if someone could share a picture, 
>> price and location. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 9:56:46 AM UTC-4 mike goldman wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/19202914712/ 
>>>
>> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki For Sale... Not Mine

[Joe Bernard]

It's butterscotch, there's a pic at the bottom, I almost missed it too. 
That's a pretty bike! 

On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 7:50:54 AM UTC-7 Joel S wrote:

> Thanks Max.  Too bad no color is mentioned, it may have been my original 
> Saluki if it is green and has centerpulls.  That bike was just too big for 
> me.  Bike is worth a minimum of 2k if in condition as described, maybe 
> more. 
>
> Sent from Proton Mail for iOS
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 2, 2022 at 10:25 AM, maxcr  wrote:
>
> Here you go, no connection to the seller, here is the ad info and comments:
>
> Seller: Erhard Rathsack
> >>
> I haven't ridden this bike in many years and would like to sell it. If you 
> are interested, let me know and I can tell the bike's history, etc
> 56cm seat tube, 32" standover. I bought it around 2005 I think
> I am in Reno, if you are near would you like to check it out and ride it?
> The Saluki is 56st, 58tt, 32" standover, 650c wheels. The frame has very 
> little use, less than a year and 1000 miles. The components started off on 
> my old Bleriot which I purchased at RBW in Walnut Creek. After a few years, 
> I swapped out the Bleriot frame for the Saluki then shortly after stopped 
> riding the bike because my cycling commute ended. The bike is located in 
> Reno, NV. The bike rides all Riv, really comfortable. There's a lot of 
> Nitto, Sugino, and Silver components. I estimate the year of the bike to be 
> in the 2005 +/- 3 years. This bike was one of the first modern era 650b 
> bikes.
> I looked at what people are "asking" for Rivs on EBay and that was about 
> $2500. I'd take less than that but I am not really sure what a fair price 
> is. I think it would be somewhere between $1500 and $2000. I'd take any 
> suggestions on what I should ask.
>
> On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 10:17:28 AM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I can't access either. Would be nice if someone could share a picture, 
>> price and location. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 9:56:46 AM UTC-4 mike goldman wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/19202914712/ 
>>>
>> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki For Sale... Not Mine

['JRStern11' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thanks Max. Too bad no color is mentioned, it may have been my original Saluki 
if it is green and has centerpulls. That bike was just too big for me. Bike is 
worth a minimum of 2k if in condition as described, maybe more.

Sent from Proton Mail for iOS

On Tue, Aug 2, 2022 at 10:25 AM, maxcr  wrote:

> Here you go, no connection to the seller, here is the ad info and comments:
>
> Seller: Erhard Rathsack
>>>
> I haven't ridden this bike in many years and would like to sell it. If you 
> are interested, let me know and I can tell the bike's history, etc
> 56cm seat tube, 32" standover. I bought it around 2005 I think
> I am in Reno, if you are near would you like to check it out and ride it?
> The Saluki is 56st, 58tt, 32" standover, 650c wheels. The frame has very 
> little use, less than a year and 1000 miles. The components started off on my 
> old Bleriot which I purchased at RBW in Walnut Creek. After a few years, I 
> swapped out the Bleriot frame for the Saluki then shortly after stopped 
> riding the bike because my cycling commute ended. The bike is located in 
> Reno, NV. The bike rides all Riv, really comfortable. There's a lot of Nitto, 
> Sugino, and Silver components. I estimate the year of the bike to be in the 
> 2005 +/- 3 years. This bike was one of the first modern era 650b bikes.
> I looked at what people are "asking" for Rivs on EBay and that was about 
> $2500. I'd take less than that but I am not really sure what a fair price is. 
> I think it would be somewhere between $1500 and $2000. I'd take any 
> suggestions on what I should ask.
>
> On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 10:17:28 AM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I can't access either. Would be nice if someone could share a picture, price 
>> and location.
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 9:56:46 AM UTC-4 mike goldman wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/19202914712/
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki For Sale... Not Mine

[Eric Marth]

I can't access either. Would be nice if someone could share a picture, 
price and location. 

On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 9:56:46 AM UTC-4 mike goldman wrote:

> https://www.facebook.com/groups/19202914712/
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki For Sale... Not Mine

[mikel66...@juno.com]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/19202914712/

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki, first ride

['JRStern11' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Jason, thank you. I have a feeling this will move into #1 position.

Sent from ProtonMail for iOS

On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 1:45 PM, Jason Fuller  wrote:

> Excellent to hear it's working out as you'd hoped! Looking forward to more 
> photos and ride reports as spring and summer approach.
>
> On Saturday, 19 March 2022 at 12:44:31 UTC-7 Joel S wrote:
>
>> Thanks Rich. I wasn’t sure if the bags would work when I got the frame but I 
>> like it now. The size is great, it would work for you too.
>>
>> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 3:27:18 PM UTC-4 RichS wrote:
>>
>>> Looks good Joel. Congratulations on getting the right sized Saluki the 
>>> second time around. Nice front and rear bag combo too.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Rich in ATL
>>> (Saluki and Suntour fan)
>>> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 1:11:23 PM UTC-4 Joel S wrote:
>>>
 Junes, thank you. I love using NOS Suntour stuff whenever possible.

 Sent from ProtonMail for iOS

 On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 12:09 PM, J J  wrote:

> Fantastic Saluki. It looks like a perfect build. Congratulations on your 
> first ride.
>
> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 10:47:55 AM UTC-4 Joel S wrote:
>
>> Matt, great link and beautiful Saluki. Love the color. I don’t think 
>> that many were made but just a guess as they rarely come up for sale. 
>> Bleriots rarely come up for sale as well. My first Saluki, the 56cm that 
>> was too large was green with sidepulls which I prefer but happy to have 
>> gotten any Saluki. I prefer sidepulls due to hand issues and I find them 
>> easier to open up to remove a ties. This was my first one…. I hope it is 
>> still with the second owner. [6FA629B9-74EE-44D9-84FD-CEDAA7366424.jpeg]
>>
>> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 9:52:26 AM UTC-4 Matt Beecher wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Joel,
>>>
>>> I've had similar requests to keep others in mind if I sell mine, but I 
>>> cannot imagine letting it go.
>>>
>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/VlLOB0qumr0
>>>
>>> I'm a bit curious how many were made, but always assumed they rarely go 
>>> up for sale because they are spectacular bikes.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Matt in Oswego, IL
>>> On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 4:26:34 PM UTC-5 Joel S wrote:
>>>
 Thanks Matt. I had mentioned to Johnny that if he was ever going to 
 sell it I wanted it. He remembered and was so overly fair.

 Joel

 Sent from ProtonMail for iOS

 On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 4:21 PM, Matt Beecher  
 wrote:

> That's a nice bike and build. The Saluki is one of my favorite bikes, 
> if not the favorite. Congrats on the acquisition.
>
> Best regards,
> Matt in Oswego, IL
> On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 2:25:31 PM UTC-5 Joel S wrote:
>
>> [94A4BDD3-7098-4E68-A063-89DFAD04AC39.jpeg]Today the weather was 
>> perfect, I had to stop to take off my windbreaker and I probably 
>> could have worn shorts. So the bike is very smooth, I don’t remember 
>> how my too big 56cm rode anymore but this 54 is pretty much perfect. 
>> Outfitted with everything from my 55cm Bleriot except the brakes. I 
>> was quite surprised by the ride as if memory serves it felt 
>> different than the Bleriot. Very stable (more surefooted than the 
>> Bleriot), no surprises in handling. The one difference is that when 
>> I put the seat on this (which was always attached to the seatpost 
>> from the Bleriot the setback is a bit more). I always ride with my 
>> seat set levels as this just works for me.I really have no idea why 
>> it felt so good but it had me questioning the Hillborne which always 
>> felt more sure footed than the Bleriot, but I will ride that after 
>> awhile on this one and see. After riding the Hillborne on rollers 
>> all winter the muscles that were not used are letting themselves be 
>> known. I am very pleased that I bought this frame, just lovely in 
>> every way.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki, first ride

[Jason Fuller]

Excellent to hear it's working out as you'd hoped!  Looking forward to more 
photos and ride reports as spring and summer approach. 

On Saturday, 19 March 2022 at 12:44:31 UTC-7 Joel S wrote:

> Thanks Rich.  I wasn’t sure if the bags would work when I got the frame 
> but I like it now. The size is great, it would work for you too.  
>
> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 3:27:18 PM UTC-4 RichS wrote:
>
>> Looks good Joel. Congratulations on getting the right sized Saluki the 
>> second time around. Nice front and rear bag combo too.
>>
>> Best,
>> Rich in ATL 
>> (Saluki and Suntour fan)
>>
>> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 1:11:23 PM UTC-4 Joel S wrote:
>>
>>> Junes, thank you. I love using NOS Suntour stuff whenever possible. 
>>>
>>> Sent from ProtonMail for iOS
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 12:09 PM, J J  wrote:
>>>
>>> Fantastic Saluki. It looks like a perfect build. Congratulations on your 
>>> first ride. 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 10:47:55 AM UTC-4 Joel S wrote:
>>>
 Matt, great link and beautiful Saluki. Love the color. I don’t think 
 that many were made but just a guess as they rarely come up for sale. 
 Bleriots rarely come up for sale as well. My first Saluki, the 56cm that 
 was too large was green with sidepulls which I prefer but happy to have 
 gotten any Saluki. I prefer sidepulls due to hand issues and I find them 
 easier to open up to remove a ties. This was my first one…. I hope it is 
 still with the second owner. [image: 
 6FA629B9-74EE-44D9-84FD-CEDAA7366424.jpeg]

 On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 9:52:26 AM UTC-4 Matt Beecher wrote:

> Hi Joel,
>
> I've had similar requests to keep others in mind if I sell mine, but I 
> cannot imagine letting it go. 
>
> https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/VlLOB0qumr0
>
> I'm a bit curious how many were made, but always assumed they rarely 
> go up for sale because they are spectacular bikes. 
>
> Best regards,
> Matt in Oswego, IL
>
> On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 4:26:34 PM UTC-5 Joel S wrote:
>
>> Thanks Matt. I had mentioned to Johnny that if he was ever going to 
>> sell it I wanted it. He remembered and was so overly fair. 
>>
>> Joel
>>
>> Sent from ProtonMail for iOS
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 4:21 PM, Matt Beecher  
>> wrote:
>>
>> That's a nice bike and build. The Saluki is one of my favorite bikes, 
>> if not *the* favorite. Congrats on the acquisition.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Matt in Oswego, IL
>> On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 2:25:31 PM UTC-5 Joel S wrote:
>>
>>> [image: 94A4BDD3-7098-4E68-A063-89DFAD04AC39.jpeg]Today the weather 
>>> was perfect, I had to stop to take off my windbreaker and I probably 
>>> could 
>>> have worn shorts. So the bike is very smooth, I don’t remember how my 
>>> too 
>>> big 56cm rode anymore but this 54 is pretty much perfect. Outfitted 
>>> with 
>>> everything from my 55cm Bleriot except the brakes. I was quite 
>>> surprised by 
>>> the ride as if memory serves it felt different than the Bleriot. Very 
>>> stable (more surefooted than the Bleriot), no surprises in handling. 
>>> The 
>>> one difference is that when I put the seat on this (which was always 
>>> attached to the seatpost from the Bleriot the setback is a bit more). I 
>>> always ride with my seat set levels as this just works for me.I really 
>>> have 
>>> no idea why it felt so good but it had me questioning the Hillborne 
>>> which 
>>> always felt more sure footed than the Bleriot, but I will ride that 
>>> after 
>>> awhile on this one and see. After riding the Hillborne on rollers all 
>>> winter the muscles that were not used are letting themselves be known. 
>>> I am 
>>> very pleased that I bought this frame, just lovely in every way. 
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in 
>> the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/3hjG5eMdNms/unsubscribe
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/76b3d182-173d-4880-a660-d361e1642961n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
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>>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki, first ride

['Joel S' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thanks Rich.  I wasn’t sure if the bags would work when I got the frame but 
I like it now. The size is great, it would work for you too.  

On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 3:27:18 PM UTC-4 RichS wrote:

> Looks good Joel. Congratulations on getting the right sized Saluki the 
> second time around. Nice front and rear bag combo too.
>
> Best,
> Rich in ATL 
> (Saluki and Suntour fan)
>
> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 1:11:23 PM UTC-4 Joel S wrote:
>
>> Junes, thank you. I love using NOS Suntour stuff whenever possible. 
>>
>> Sent from ProtonMail for iOS
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 12:09 PM, J J  wrote:
>>
>> Fantastic Saluki. It looks like a perfect build. Congratulations on your 
>> first ride. 
>>
>> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 10:47:55 AM UTC-4 Joel S wrote:
>>
>>> Matt, great link and beautiful Saluki. Love the color. I don’t think 
>>> that many were made but just a guess as they rarely come up for sale. 
>>> Bleriots rarely come up for sale as well. My first Saluki, the 56cm that 
>>> was too large was green with sidepulls which I prefer but happy to have 
>>> gotten any Saluki. I prefer sidepulls due to hand issues and I find them 
>>> easier to open up to remove a ties. This was my first one…. I hope it is 
>>> still with the second owner. [image: 
>>> 6FA629B9-74EE-44D9-84FD-CEDAA7366424.jpeg]
>>>
>>> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 9:52:26 AM UTC-4 Matt Beecher wrote:
>>>
 Hi Joel,

 I've had similar requests to keep others in mind if I sell mine, but I 
 cannot imagine letting it go. 

 https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/VlLOB0qumr0

 I'm a bit curious how many were made, but always assumed they rarely go 
 up for sale because they are spectacular bikes. 

 Best regards,
 Matt in Oswego, IL

 On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 4:26:34 PM UTC-5 Joel S wrote:

> Thanks Matt. I had mentioned to Johnny that if he was ever going to 
> sell it I wanted it. He remembered and was so overly fair. 
>
> Joel
>
> Sent from ProtonMail for iOS
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 4:21 PM, Matt Beecher  
> wrote:
>
> That's a nice bike and build. The Saluki is one of my favorite bikes, 
> if not *the* favorite. Congrats on the acquisition.
>
> Best regards,
> Matt in Oswego, IL
> On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 2:25:31 PM UTC-5 Joel S wrote:
>
>> [image: 94A4BDD3-7098-4E68-A063-89DFAD04AC39.jpeg]Today the weather 
>> was perfect, I had to stop to take off my windbreaker and I probably 
>> could 
>> have worn shorts. So the bike is very smooth, I don’t remember how my 
>> too 
>> big 56cm rode anymore but this 54 is pretty much perfect. Outfitted with 
>> everything from my 55cm Bleriot except the brakes. I was quite surprised 
>> by 
>> the ride as if memory serves it felt different than the Bleriot. Very 
>> stable (more surefooted than the Bleriot), no surprises in handling. The 
>> one difference is that when I put the seat on this (which was always 
>> attached to the seatpost from the Bleriot the setback is a bit more). I 
>> always ride with my seat set levels as this just works for me.I really 
>> have 
>> no idea why it felt so good but it had me questioning the Hillborne 
>> which 
>> always felt more sure footed than the Bleriot, but I will ride that 
>> after 
>> awhile on this one and see. After riding the Hillborne on rollers all 
>> winter the muscles that were not used are letting themselves be known. I 
>> am 
>> very pleased that I bought this frame, just lovely in every way. 
>>
>>
>> -- 
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> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> To view this discussion on the web visit 
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>  
> 
> .
>
>
>
> -- 
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>>  
>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki, first ride

[RichS]

Looks good Joel. Congratulations on getting the right sized Saluki the 
second time around. Nice front and rear bag combo too.

Best,
Rich in ATL 
(Saluki and Suntour fan)

On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 1:11:23 PM UTC-4 Joel S wrote:

> Junes, thank you. I love using NOS Suntour stuff whenever possible. 
>
> Sent from ProtonMail for iOS
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 12:09 PM, J J  wrote:
>
> Fantastic Saluki. It looks like a perfect build. Congratulations on your 
> first ride. 
>
> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 10:47:55 AM UTC-4 Joel S wrote:
>
>> Matt, great link and beautiful Saluki. Love the color. I don’t think that 
>> many were made but just a guess as they rarely come up for sale. Bleriots 
>> rarely come up for sale as well. My first Saluki, the 56cm that was too 
>> large was green with sidepulls which I prefer but happy to have gotten any 
>> Saluki. I prefer sidepulls due to hand issues and I find them easier to 
>> open up to remove a ties. This was my first one…. I hope it is still with 
>> the second owner. [image: 6FA629B9-74EE-44D9-84FD-CEDAA7366424.jpeg]
>>
>> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 9:52:26 AM UTC-4 Matt Beecher wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Joel,
>>>
>>> I've had similar requests to keep others in mind if I sell mine, but I 
>>> cannot imagine letting it go. 
>>>
>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/VlLOB0qumr0
>>>
>>> I'm a bit curious how many were made, but always assumed they rarely go 
>>> up for sale because they are spectacular bikes. 
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Matt in Oswego, IL
>>>
>>> On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 4:26:34 PM UTC-5 Joel S wrote:
>>>
 Thanks Matt. I had mentioned to Johnny that if he was ever going to 
 sell it I wanted it. He remembered and was so overly fair. 

 Joel

 Sent from ProtonMail for iOS


 On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 4:21 PM, Matt Beecher  
 wrote:

 That's a nice bike and build. The Saluki is one of my favorite bikes, 
 if not *the* favorite. Congrats on the acquisition.

 Best regards,
 Matt in Oswego, IL
 On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 2:25:31 PM UTC-5 Joel S wrote:

> [image: 94A4BDD3-7098-4E68-A063-89DFAD04AC39.jpeg]Today the weather 
> was perfect, I had to stop to take off my windbreaker and I probably 
> could 
> have worn shorts. So the bike is very smooth, I don’t remember how my too 
> big 56cm rode anymore but this 54 is pretty much perfect. Outfitted with 
> everything from my 55cm Bleriot except the brakes. I was quite surprised 
> by 
> the ride as if memory serves it felt different than the Bleriot. Very 
> stable (more surefooted than the Bleriot), no surprises in handling. The 
> one difference is that when I put the seat on this (which was always 
> attached to the seatpost from the Bleriot the setback is a bit more). I 
> always ride with my seat set levels as this just works for me.I really 
> have 
> no idea why it felt so good but it had me questioning the Hillborne which 
> always felt more sure footed than the Bleriot, but I will ride that after 
> awhile on this one and see. After riding the Hillborne on rollers all 
> winter the muscles that were not used are letting themselves be known. I 
> am 
> very pleased that I bought this frame, just lovely in every way. 
>
>
> -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
 Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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 .



 -- 
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> 
> .
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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki, first ride

['JRStern11' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Junes, thank you. I love using NOS Suntour stuff whenever possible.

Sent from ProtonMail for iOS

On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 12:09 PM, J J  wrote:

> Fantastic Saluki. It looks like a perfect build. Congratulations on your 
> first ride.
>
> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 10:47:55 AM UTC-4 Joel S wrote:
>
>> Matt, great link and beautiful Saluki. Love the color. I don’t think that 
>> many were made but just a guess as they rarely come up for sale. Bleriots 
>> rarely come up for sale as well. My first Saluki, the 56cm that was too 
>> large was green with sidepulls which I prefer but happy to have gotten any 
>> Saluki. I prefer sidepulls due to hand issues and I find them easier to open 
>> up to remove a ties. This was my first one…. I hope it is still with the 
>> second owner. [6FA629B9-74EE-44D9-84FD-CEDAA7366424.jpeg]
>>
>> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 9:52:26 AM UTC-4 Matt Beecher wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Joel,
>>>
>>> I've had similar requests to keep others in mind if I sell mine, but I 
>>> cannot imagine letting it go.
>>>
>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/VlLOB0qumr0
>>>
>>> I'm a bit curious how many were made, but always assumed they rarely go up 
>>> for sale because they are spectacular bikes.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Matt in Oswego, IL
>>> On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 4:26:34 PM UTC-5 Joel S wrote:
>>>
 Thanks Matt. I had mentioned to Johnny that if he was ever going to sell 
 it I wanted it. He remembered and was so overly fair.

 Joel

 Sent from ProtonMail for iOS

 On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 4:21 PM, Matt Beecher  wrote:

> That's a nice bike and build. The Saluki is one of my favorite bikes, if 
> not the favorite. Congrats on the acquisition.
>
> Best regards,
> Matt in Oswego, IL
> On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 2:25:31 PM UTC-5 Joel S wrote:
>
>> [94A4BDD3-7098-4E68-A063-89DFAD04AC39.jpeg]Today the weather was 
>> perfect, I had to stop to take off my windbreaker and I probably could 
>> have worn shorts. So the bike is very smooth, I don’t remember how my 
>> too big 56cm rode anymore but this 54 is pretty much perfect. Outfitted 
>> with everything from my 55cm Bleriot except the brakes. I was quite 
>> surprised by the ride as if memory serves it felt different than the 
>> Bleriot. Very stable (more surefooted than the Bleriot), no surprises in 
>> handling. The one difference is that when I put the seat on this (which 
>> was always attached to the seatpost from the Bleriot the setback is a 
>> bit more). I always ride with my seat set levels as this just works for 
>> me.I really have no idea why it felt so good but it had me questioning 
>> the Hillborne which always felt more sure footed than the Bleriot, but I 
>> will ride that after awhile on this one and see. After riding the 
>> Hillborne on rollers all winter the muscles that were not used are 
>> letting themselves be known. I am very pleased that I bought this frame, 
>> just lovely in every way.

> --
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>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki, first ride

[J J]

Fantastic Saluki. It looks like a perfect build. Congratulations on your 
first ride. 

On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 10:47:55 AM UTC-4 Joel S wrote:

> Matt, great link and beautiful Saluki.  Love the color.  I don’t think 
> that many were made but just a guess as they rarely come up for sale. 
>  Bleriots rarely come up for sale as well.  My first Saluki, the 56cm that 
> was too large was green with sidepulls which I prefer but happy to have 
> gotten any Saluki.  I prefer sidepulls due to hand issues and I find them 
> easier to open up to remove a ties.  This was my first one…. I hope it is 
> still with the second owner.  [image: 
> 6FA629B9-74EE-44D9-84FD-CEDAA7366424.jpeg]
>
> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 9:52:26 AM UTC-4 Matt Beecher wrote:
>
>> Hi Joel,
>>
>> I've had similar requests to keep others in mind if I sell mine, but I 
>> cannot imagine letting it go.  
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/VlLOB0qumr0
>>
>> I'm a bit curious how many were made, but always assumed they rarely go 
>> up for sale because they are spectacular bikes.  
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Matt in Oswego, IL
>>
>> On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 4:26:34 PM UTC-5 Joel S wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Matt.  I had mentioned to Johnny that if he was ever going to 
>>> sell it I wanted it.  He remembered and was so overly fair.  
>>>
>>> Joel
>>>
>>> Sent from ProtonMail for iOS
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 4:21 PM, Matt Beecher  wrote:
>>>
>>> That's a nice bike and build. The Saluki is one of my favorite bikes, if 
>>> not *the* favorite.  Congrats on the acquisition.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Matt in Oswego, IL
>>> On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 2:25:31 PM UTC-5 Joel S wrote:
>>>
 [image: 94A4BDD3-7098-4E68-A063-89DFAD04AC39.jpeg]Today the weather 
 was perfect, I had to stop to take off my windbreaker and I probably could 
 have worn shorts. So the bike is very smooth, I don’t remember how my too 
 big 56cm rode anymore but this 54 is pretty much perfect. Outfitted with 
 everything from my 55cm Bleriot except the brakes. I was quite surprised 
 by 
 the ride as if memory serves it felt different than the Bleriot. Very 
 stable (more surefooted than the Bleriot), no surprises in handling. The 
 one difference is that when I put the seat on this (which was always 
 attached to the seatpost from the Bleriot the setback is a bit more). I 
 always ride with my seat set levels as this just works for me.I really 
 have 
 no idea why it felt so good but it had me questioning the Hillborne which 
 always felt more sure footed than the Bleriot, but I will ride that after 
 awhile on this one and see. After riding the Hillborne on rollers all 
 winter the muscles that were not used are letting themselves be known. I 
 am 
 very pleased that I bought this frame, just lovely in every way. 


 -- 
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>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/3hjG5eMdNms/unsubscribe
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki, first ride

[Matt Beecher]

Hi Joel,

I've had similar requests to keep others in mind if I sell mine, but I 
cannot imagine letting it go.  

https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/VlLOB0qumr0

I'm a bit curious how many were made, but always assumed they rarely go up 
for sale because they are spectacular bikes.  

Best regards,
Matt in Oswego, IL

On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 4:26:34 PM UTC-5 Joel S wrote:

> Thanks Matt.  I had mentioned to Johnny that if he was ever going to sell 
> it I wanted it.  He remembered and was so overly fair.  
>
> Joel
>
> Sent from ProtonMail for iOS
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 4:21 PM, Matt Beecher  wrote:
>
> That's a nice bike and build. The Saluki is one of my favorite bikes, if 
> not *the* favorite.  Congrats on the acquisition.
>
> Best regards,
> Matt in Oswego, IL
> On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 2:25:31 PM UTC-5 Joel S wrote:
>
>> [image: 94A4BDD3-7098-4E68-A063-89DFAD04AC39.jpeg]Today the weather was 
>> perfect, I had to stop to take off my windbreaker and I probably could have 
>> worn shorts. So the bike is very smooth, I don’t remember how my too big 
>> 56cm rode anymore but this 54 is pretty much perfect. Outfitted with 
>> everything from my 55cm Bleriot except the brakes. I was quite surprised by 
>> the ride as if memory serves it felt different than the Bleriot. Very 
>> stable (more surefooted than the Bleriot), no surprises in handling. The 
>> one difference is that when I put the seat on this (which was always 
>> attached to the seatpost from the Bleriot the setback is a bit more). I 
>> always ride with my seat set levels as this just works for me.I really have 
>> no idea why it felt so good but it had me questioning the Hillborne which 
>> always felt more sure footed than the Bleriot, but I will ride that after 
>> awhile on this one and see. After riding the Hillborne on rollers all 
>> winter the muscles that were not used are letting themselves be known. I am 
>> very pleased that I bought this frame, just lovely in every way. 
>>
>>
>> -- 
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> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/3hjG5eMdNms/unsubscribe
> .
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>
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>  
> 
> .
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki, first ride

['JRStern11' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thanks Matt. I had mentioned to Johnny that if he was ever going to sell it I 
wanted it. He remembered and was so overly fair.

Joel

Sent from ProtonMail for iOS

On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 4:21 PM, Matt Beecher  wrote:

> That's a nice bike and build. The Saluki is one of my favorite bikes, if not 
> the favorite. Congrats on the acquisition.
>
> Best regards,
> Matt in Oswego, IL
> On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 2:25:31 PM UTC-5 Joel S wrote:
>
>> [94A4BDD3-7098-4E68-A063-89DFAD04AC39.jpeg]Today the weather was perfect, I 
>> had to stop to take off my windbreaker and I probably could have worn 
>> shorts. So the bike is very smooth, I don’t remember how my too big 56cm 
>> rode anymore but this 54 is pretty much perfect. Outfitted with everything 
>> from my 55cm Bleriot except the brakes. I was quite surprised by the ride as 
>> if memory serves it felt different than the Bleriot. Very stable (more 
>> surefooted than the Bleriot), no surprises in handling. The one difference 
>> is that when I put the seat on this (which was always attached to the 
>> seatpost from the Bleriot the setback is a bit more). I always ride with my 
>> seat set levels as this just works for me.I really have no idea why it felt 
>> so good but it had me questioning the Hillborne which always felt more sure 
>> footed than the Bleriot, but I will ride that after awhile on this one and 
>> see. After riding the Hillborne on rollers all winter the muscles that were 
>> not used are letting themselves be known. I am very pleased that I bought 
>> this frame, just lovely in every way.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki, first ride

['JRStern11' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thanks John.

Sent from ProtonMail for iOS

On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 5:02 PM, John Bokman  wrote:

> Sweet looking ride you got there. Congratulations.
>
> On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 12:25:31 PM UTC-7 Joel S wrote:
>
>> [94A4BDD3-7098-4E68-A063-89DFAD04AC39.jpeg]Today the weather was perfect, I 
>> had to stop to take off my windbreaker and I probably could have worn 
>> shorts. So the bike is very smooth, I don’t remember how my too big 56cm 
>> rode anymore but this 54 is pretty much perfect. Outfitted with everything 
>> from my 55cm Bleriot except the brakes. I was quite surprised by the ride as 
>> if memory serves it felt different than the Bleriot. Very stable (more 
>> surefooted than the Bleriot), no surprises in handling. The one difference 
>> is that when I put the seat on this (which was always attached to the 
>> seatpost from the Bleriot the setback is a bit more). I always ride with my 
>> seat set levels as this just works for me.I really have no idea why it felt 
>> so good but it had me questioning the Hillborne which always felt more sure 
>> footed than the Bleriot, but I will ride that after awhile on this one and 
>> see. After riding the Hillborne on rollers all winter the muscles that were 
>> not used are letting themselves be known. I am very pleased that I bought 
>> this frame, just lovely in every way.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Re-Tired

['Eamon Nordquist' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I don't know about Kojaks, but Paselas are available in 650b x 42mm. I don't 
think there is a 38mm version, but I could be wrong.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Re-Tired

[lum gim fong]

Ive heard good things about paselas and kojacs.
Are they both made in 650b x 38-42mm?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Re-Tired

[Patrick Moore]

FWIW, if you want inexpensive tire, IME Kojaks are better-- rolling; well,
lets say Kojaks roll fully as well; certainly better in flat resistance and
longevity -- than Paselas.

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 6:03 PM, 'Eamon Nordquist' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Agreed. Non-belted Paselas are still pretty good tires, and while I'd love
> some fancy pants expensive tires, my 700c x 28mm wire bead Pasela cost me a
> whopping $23 each. At least for my minimal weight (140lbs), I find the
> standard Paselas in 28-32mm ride as well as the 35mm ones with the "PT"
> protection.
>
> Eamon
>
> On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 3:36:40 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/03/2017 05:31 PM, lum gim fong wrote:
>> > I could see someone weeping about the price of Compass tires.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Well, if they don't fit the budget there are some decent choices at more
>> affordable prices.  I just bought a pair of 700x32C wire bead Paselas
>> for $50 to use on my '63 Jack Taylor this winter.  I'd say they're
>> easily 80% of the performance of a Stampede Pass std casing for less
>> than half the price, and still probably better than any tire that was
>> available for that bike in 27 x 1 1/4" when it was new.
>>
>> --
>> Steve Palincsar
>> Alexandria, Virginia
>> USA
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Re-Tired

['Eamon Nordquist' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Agreed. Non-belted Paselas are still pretty good tires, and while I'd love 
some fancy pants expensive tires, my 700c x 28mm wire bead Pasela cost me a 
whopping $23 each. At least for my minimal weight (140lbs), I find the 
standard Paselas in 28-32mm ride as well as the 35mm ones with the "PT" 
protection. 

Eamon

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 3:36:40 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
>
> On 10/03/2017 05:31 PM, lum gim fong wrote: 
> > I could see someone weeping about the price of Compass tires. 
> > 
> > 
>
> Well, if they don't fit the budget there are some decent choices at more 
> affordable prices.  I just bought a pair of 700x32C wire bead Paselas 
> for $50 to use on my '63 Jack Taylor this winter.  I'd say they're 
> easily 80% of the performance of a Stampede Pass std casing for less 
> than half the price, and still probably better than any tire that was 
> available for that bike in 27 x 1 1/4" when it was new. 
>
> -- 
> Steve Palincsar 
> Alexandria, Virginia 
> USA 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Re-Tired

[Steve Palincsar]

On 10/03/2017 05:31 PM, lum gim fong wrote:

I could see someone weeping about the price of Compass tires.




Well, if they don't fit the budget there are some decent choices at more 
affordable prices.  I just bought a pair of 700x32C wire bead Paselas 
for $50 to use on my '63 Jack Taylor this winter.  I'd say they're 
easily 80% of the performance of a Stampede Pass std casing for less 
than half the price, and still probably better than any tire that was 
available for that bike in 27 x 1 1/4" when it was new.


--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Re-Tired

[Tony DeFilippo]

Thanks Chris and Erl!

Hey Steve, yeah I have a number of now empty patch kits to attest to my 
poor skill in patching.  Of all the things to struggle with...  my success 
rate is extremely poor.  especially with glass punctures it should be 
pretty easy.  I've read that the Rema Tip Top stuff is pretty good but 
haven't tried it.  

Tony

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Re-Tired

[Steve Palincsar]

On 10/03/2017 12:48 PM, Tony DeFilippo wrote:
The parimoto flats are not really an indictment of those tires but 
rather a reflection that the Mount Vernon Trail in vicinity of Reagan 
Nat'l Airport has had a ton of broken glass on the trails this year 
and it's just very hard on any tire.  I'm at risk with the Compass 
tires as well there but as I'll get into, at least I'm not going to be 
slapping $7-10 tube replacements in on a weekly basis.


You replace a tube with a new tube when you get a glass puncture?  I 
patch mine.


Image result for rema patchesImage result for rema vulcanizing fluid



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USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Re-Tired

[Tony DeFilippo]

Thanks Bill - the frame and fenders were powdercoated at the same time.  No
regrets there whatsoever, I love the matched fenders.

Thanks Kieran - yes those are the Paul Stoplights, took me a bit of
fiddling last time I changed handlebars to get them where I wanted but I
love the look and the power/modulation is pretty good right now.  No
weeping at all from the EL sidewall's, these are the new TL versions
though.  When I went tubeless on the non TL SBH EL's the sidewalls 'wept'
orange seal pretty impressively so there is a definite change to the casing.

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 12:20 PM, Kieran J  wrote:

> Cool bike!
> Are those vintage Paul Stoplights you are running there?
> Any issues with weeping on the EL sidewalls?
>
> KJ
>
>
> On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 11:45:21 AM UTC-4, Tony DeFilippo wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps the better word choice would be 'renewed'... if you are tired of
>> gushing about Compass tires just skip this post.  My Saluki hasn't gotten
>> all that much love since my acquisition of the Jones Plus in February and
>> particularly while I was experimenting with the 29x2.35 Schwable 'Big One'
>> slicks on that frame (also an awesome experience).  That coupled with a
>> rash of flats on two different sets of Parimoto 38mm tires on the Saluki
>> over the summer and the long days making dyno lighting less of a must have
>> kept the bike in the garage quite a bit.  The parimoto flats are not really
>> an indictment of those tires but rather a reflection that the Mount Vernon
>> Trail in vicinity of Reagan Nat'l Airport has had a ton of broken glass on
>> the trails this year and it's just very hard on any tire.  I'm at risk with
>> the Compass tires as well there but as I'll get into, at least I'm not
>> going to be slapping $7-10 tube replacements in on a weekly basis.
>>
>> While I wasn't in any hurry to get rid of the Saluki I wasn't finding a
>> lot of excuses to ride it and mostly when I would I was nervous about my
>> next flat and the delay that would incur.  Any mechanical doubts about a
>> bike or car really detract from the use to me.  As luck would have it
>> Chirs(Pondero) and I had been going back and forth about his acquiring my
>> Bstone MB-5 as a DC town bike for when he is visiting his family here at
>> the same time that Compass announced that their Babyshoe Pass EL's were now
>> available in tubeless.  It just so happened that the MB-5 sale would
>> completely cover a new set of compass tires, a set of tire wipers and
>> another years BQ subscription... or at least close enough! :)
>>
>> The new BSP EL's locked up pretty easily on my Velocity A23 rims and upon
>> initial inflation to about 60psi to seat the beads measured a little over
>> 40mm.  I'm trying to run them around 25-30psi front and 40-50psi back right
>> now... I give the ranges because I've been plagued with different readings
>> from pretty much every gauge I own, a digital one, my floor pump and the
>> gauge on my compressor all read sometimes wildly different. I have the most
>> run time with the floor pump so I'm trying to trust that one.  the tires
>> have grown a bit in the 2 weeks they've been on the bike just from my
>> looking at the fender clearance but I haven't measured them.  Ride quality
>> is superb, not hugely different than how I remember the Hetre's or SBH's
>> actually and I'm not sure how much the tubeless really matters to the
>> feel.  My main motivation on the tubeless is that I'll have fewer flats and
>> at least not have to mess with tubes so often.  The biggest thing that has
>> struck me in my rides over the weekend and this week is how quiet they are
>> on the pavement.  Monday morning in the pre-dawn darkness all I could hear
>> on the bike was the cassette lightly clicking as I flew around Gravelly
>> Point... a really great feeling.
>>
>> Time will tell on the durability, obviously any of these light supple
>> tires compromise on protection from road debris but at least for now I'll
>> continue to risk it.  The result so far is I have ridden the Saluki at
>> every opportunity since the BSP's were mounted.  Couple pictures from
>> yesterday morning's solo coffee outside including a shot of my B Cyo
>> Premium headlight in case anyone was curious about that.  Short thoughts on
>> the B are it's a great wide light field, not the absolute brightest but
>> very good when it's really dark and definitely more than adequate for being
>> seen.
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki.

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

If I ever have the pleasure of going on a ride with Steve, it will be like 
Oscar and Felix taking their bikes for a spin.

On Friday, September 29, 2017 at 4:29:10 PM UTC-4, Fullylugged wrote: 
Immaculate 
bike Steve.  You trailer it there, take picture then put it back? :)  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki.

[lum gim fong]

I always thought the sheep on the Rambouillet head badge looks like my dog 
Johnny.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki.

[Hugh Smitham]

Lol. I am partial to sight hounds.

On Sep 29, 2017 5:19 PM, "dougP"  wrote:

> Spoken like a true dog lover.
>
> dougP
>
> On Friday, September 29, 2017 at 3:41:50 PM UTC-7, Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>> Swooning. I think it's my favorite head badge.
>>
>> On Sep 29, 2017 1:30 PM, "Kellie"  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> Whoops! Here's the head badge:
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, September 27, 2017 at 11:52:59 PM UTC-7, Hugh Smitham
>>> wrote:

 How come I rarely ever see Saluki's up on the chopping block? Did Riv
 only make a small batch?

 I'd love a 56cm perhaps it's a pipe dream?

 ~hugh

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>>>
>> ...

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki.

[Hugh Smitham]

Swooning. I think it's my favorite head badge.

On Sep 29, 2017 1:30 PM, "Kellie"  wrote:

>
> 
> Whoops! Here's the head badge:
>
> On Wednesday, September 27, 2017 at 11:52:59 PM UTC-7, Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>> How come I rarely ever see Saluki's up on the chopping block? Did Riv
>> only make a small batch?
>>
>> I'd love a 56cm perhaps it's a pipe dream?
>>
>> ~hugh
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki.

[Steve Palincsar]

No.  This was entirely on pavement, even the part down the farm road in 
the Amish area, but even disregarding pavement fenders like this do a 
great job keeping the bike clean.  And that's especially important if 
you're riding in area where there are many horse drawn vehicles like the 
one where these photos were taken, in Maryland's St Marys County.  These 
photos were all taken on the same ride (indeed, on the same road) as the 
one featuring the Saluki.



On 09/29/2017 04:29 PM, Bruce wrote:
Immaculate bike Steve.  You trailer it there, take picture then put it 
back? :)
Love those honking fat tires.  Oodles of comfort and as fast as you 
want too.


Yes indeed, those tires are very comfortable.  And in rural areas, high 
pressure narrow racing tires just don't get on all that pleasantly with 
farm roads, which are generally paved with coarse materials like 
chipseal, but also the iron shod horses' hooves and the steel tires on 
the the buggy wheels really tear up the pavement.


The bike below is now owned by list member Tony DeFilippo, who also 
lives in Alexandria VA.







*From:* Steve Palincsar <palin...@his.com>
*To:* rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
*Sent:* Friday, September 29, 2017 3:05 PM
*Subject:* Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki.



On 09/29/2017 03:55 PM, lum gim fong wrote:

Why not consider a Roadeo?

They can do everything a Saluki can now that you can get braze ons 
wherever you want them, plus they will be a snappier ride/lighter 
tubeset.


I guess only restriction is tire size the Saluki probably has the 
Roadeo beat. But other than that the Roadeo should be the more 
exhilerating ride, in theory.




Only "probably"?  Per https://www.rivbike.com/products/roadeo "FOR 
SURE: The Jack Brown, which is NOMINALLY 33.333mm wide on most 
rims--but that's irrelevant, remember?--measures about 700mm on a 24mm 
rim. It's the fattest unfendered tire we can categorically commit to 
fitting the ROADEO fork. /If you want fenders also, best limit the 
tire to 682mm height...which will be about a 28./"   I ran 650Bx42mm 
Grand Bois Hetres with fenders on my Saluki.  That is a huge 
difference, lum gim.




Bigger than huge.  Monstro Gigantor.  Let's compare a Range Rover with 
an Aston Martin, why don't we. I can see plenty of reasons why you 
might want to have both, but I can't see any reason to think the two 
would really be interchangeable.


--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA
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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki.

[Bruce]

Immaculate bike Steve.  You trailer it there, take picture then put it back? :) 
 Love those honking fat tires.  Oodles of comfort and as fast as you want too.

  From: Steve Palincsar <palin...@his.com>
 To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
 Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 3:05 PM
 Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki.
   
 
  
 On 09/29/2017 03:55 PM, lum gim fong wrote:
  
 Why not consider a Roadeo? 
  They can do everything a Saluki can now that you can get braze ons wherever 
you want them, plus they will be a snappier ride/lighter tubeset. 
  I guess only restriction is tire size the Saluki probably has the Roadeo 
beat. But other than that the Roadeo should be the more exhilerating ride, in 
theory.  
 
 
 Only "probably"?  Per https://www.rivbike.com/products/roadeo  "FOR SURE: The 
Jack Brown, which is NOMINALLY 33.333mm wide on most rims--but that's 
irrelevant, remember?--measures about 700mm on a 24mm rim. It's the fattest 
unfendered tire we can categorically commit to fitting the ROADEO fork. If you 
want fenders also, best limit the tire to 682mm height...which will be about a 
28."   I ran 650Bx42mm Grand Bois Hetres with fenders on my Saluki.  That is a 
huge difference, lum gim.  
 
 
 
 Bigger than huge.  Monstro Gigantor.  Let's compare a Range Rover with an 
Aston Martin, why don't we.   I can see plenty of reasons why you might want to 
have both, but I can't see any reason to think the two would really be 
interchangeable.
 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki.

[Kellie]

Headbadge on my 50cm Saluki.

  



On Friday, September 29, 2017 at 10:29:06 AM UTC-7, Fullylugged wrote:
>
> There were a couple including some LE pewter ones.  Mine had cloisonne 
> edges.
>
>
> --
> *From:* lum gim fong 
> *To:* RBW Owners Bunch  
> *Sent:* Friday, September 29, 2017 9:02 AM
> *Subject:* [RBW] Re: Saluki.
>
> I think they came with diff badges. RBW sells old model badges so you 
> could call them and see if they have the one you prefer. This one looks 
> like cloisonne trim?
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 09/29/2017 03:55 PM, lum gim fong wrote:

Why not consider a Roadeo?

They can do everything a Saluki can now that you can get braze ons 
wherever you want them, plus they will be a snappier ride/lighter tubeset.


I guess only restriction is tire size the Saluki probably has the 
Roadeo beat. But other than that the Roadeo should be the more 
exhilerating ride, in theory.




Only "probably"?  Per https://www.rivbike.com/products/roadeo  "FOR 
SURE: The Jack Brown, which is NOMINALLY 33.333mm wide on most rims--but 
that's irrelevant, remember?--measures about 700mm on a 24mm rim. It's 
the fattest unfendered tire we can categorically commit to fitting the 
ROADEO fork. /If you want fenders also, best limit the tire to 682mm 
height...which will be about a 28./" I ran 650Bx42mm Grand Bois Hetres 
with fenders on my Saluki.  That is a huge difference, lum gim.




Bigger than huge.  Monstro Gigantor.  Let's compare a Range Rover with 
an Aston Martin, why don't we.   I can see plenty of reasons why you 
might want to have both, but I can't see any reason to think the two 
would really be interchangeable.


--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki.

[Bruce]

There were a couple including some LE pewter ones.  Mine had cloisonne edges.

  From: lum gim fong 
 To: RBW Owners Bunch  
 Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 9:02 AM
 Subject: [RBW] Re: Saluki.
   
I think they came with diff badges. RBW sells old model badges so you could 
call them and see if they have the one you prefer. This one looks like 
cloisonne trim?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki.

[drew]

Ha! 
If it comes to that, I'll thank you from preventing me from spending more money 
and saving my marriage.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki.

[Hugh Smitham]

Drew,

Don't even think about it Mr.

On Sep 28, 2017 9:34 PM, "drew"  wrote:

> I agree. There is something way more pleasing about the saluki over the
> hilsen for me. I know this is irrational. If a 56 saluki popped up, I'd be
> hard pressed not to jump on it.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki.

[Hugh Smitham]

Hi sky,

The differences between the 56cm Salulki and 56cm Hilsen are purely
aesthetic for me. I like the head badge better and I know it's a quibbly
point but I prefer canti posts vs caliper brakes. I realize I could have
had all this done on my Hilsen but I felt it was a tad too large for me and
felt it was easier to sell and consider a different path. James, I think
this answers your question. It was a 58cm (650b).

John, thanks for the inside scoop. So yeah the Saluki had a brief span
before the Hilsen badging took over which answers my question about why so
few pop up.


Virus-free.
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<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep
moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipeedemusings.com/



On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 7:32 AM, 'Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> John, something I've wondered about lately, and just realized that you're
> a perfect person to ask:
>
> What's the difference between the Saluki and the Bleriot?  I know the
> Bleriot is Taiwan-built, but from everything I've read I'd expect the
> capabilities and ride qualities of these 2 models to be very similar, if
> not identical.  Are there differences I'm overlooking or unaware of, such
> as differences in the tubists that translate to differences in the bikes'
> qualities?  Thanks.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki.

[Steve Palincsar]

Even


On 09/28/2017 07:35 AM, 'Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
Hugh, I've wondered the same thing.  I'd be interested in a 60cm or 
61cm Saluki---I can't remember if they come in odd or even sizes---but 
haven't seen one become available since I started watching.


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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Links

[DB]

I've used the VO Zeppelin fenders with 42s. There was not a ton of room under 
the fender but it worked fine. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Links

[Justin August]

Who has aluminum fenders on theirs with 42mm tires and what do you use?

On Aug 7, 2017, 5:57 PM -0700, Michael Hechmer , wrote:
> I'm late to this discussion and have not been able to follow all of the 
> rather cryptic postings, but.  I have an early, canti, grey Saluki which, 
> over time has become my most ridden bike.  It's just so comfortable, so 
> versatile, so ...perfect.  I have a soft spot in my heart for my Rambouilet, 
> but the Saluki guides over so much bad road with ease.  I currently run 38's 
> but intend to go with Compass 41s under VO fenders.
>
> Michael
>
> On Monday, August 7, 2017 at 7:50:32 PM UTC-4, KenP wrote:
> > Hi John,
> >    I had an early 50 canti Saluki, but found it too small; then sold it and 
> > got a 54 sidepull Saluki;  My pbh 79.5; the 54 fits better.  I liked the 
> > cantilever brakes better though because they stopped better and opened 
> > easier. And I like the 650B wheel size.  However these days I'm beginning 
> > to like bikes with wider tires for the local trails.
> > Ken,
> > Virginia
> >
> > On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 6:28:16 PM UTC-4, John Hawrylak wrote:
> > > Does any one have any links to the RBW literature on the early 
> > > Saluki's???  looking at the 54cm on Seattle CL, since it is my size.
> > >
> > > I know the Saluki's transformed into the 650B AHHs, but there seems to be 
> > > subtle differences.
> > >
> > > I thought there were links on Cyclofiend's site, but have not located them
> > >
> > >
> > > John Hawrylak
> > > Woodstown NJ
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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki - Dog Trailers?

[Eunice Chang]

This thread reminded me of this ride Maggie is doing with her dog Oscar:

http://totalwomenscycling.com/lifestyle/gallery-65-year-old-maggies-5000-mile-challenge-dog-oscar-underway-46838/1

I'm not sure, but I *think* the dog gets to run/walk on some of the
uphills. :)

-E.



On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 5:21 PM, KenP krpeyto...@gmail.com wrote:

 Um, does anyone carry a saluki with a Saluki?  :)

 On Tuesday, June 2, 2015 at 10:12:43 AM UTC-4, rasterdogs wrote:

 I'm exploring the use of a dog trailer so I can take our new pup to work
 with me.

 I'll use my Saluki if I do this.

 I'm interested of others have experience towing trailers with their
 Riv's. I'm thinking a Doggyride trailer looks like a good choice.

 Thanks,
 JimD

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki on it's way back

[WETH]

This is a beautiful weekend to ride it.  Congrats.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki on it's way back

[Steve Palincsar]

On 05/22/2015 05:55 PM, Tony DeFilippo wrote:


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-J1I1pIHK7w4/VV-llrMbkxI/HmQ/v-lN75qhtkg/s1600/RAD_7066.jpg

Back on the road!  More to do, especially the fenders, racks and dyno 
lighting but I'm going for a quick ride and doing some Happy Hour to 
ring in the Memorial Day weekend.  Enjoy everyone, happy riding this 
weekend!


http://dr2dc.blogspot.com/2015/05/rolling-again.html



Good job, Tony!


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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki on it's way back

[Tony DeFilippo]

Nice to have the bike back.  Pictures of the frame on my 
blog; http://dr2dc.blogspot.com/2015/05/the-salukis-back.html .  I'm happy 
with the color and the semi-flat topcoat, I wish the lug window painting 
had a bit more care to it but I'll be able to touch that up myself.  I hung 
the first part on the frame before I got back to work this morning so the 
build is officially started!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LbgbJ_JmIYc/VV83Oj0PezI/Hlo/Hz2ebgi9as8/s1600/RAD_7021.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--e6Ik-5IT_I/VV83T3_kVeI/Hlw/Dblghx6LjY0/s1600/RAD_7022.jpg



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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki on it's way back

[Bill]

Looks mighty good. The green and cream brings back fond memories of a Saluki I 
once owned.  Now get it assembled and back on the road where it belongs. That 
first ride will suggest that you should sell all your other bikes and keep this 
one. That's what my Purple People Eater as someone calls it tells me every time 
I ride it.

Bill repeat Saluki offender Eberle
Columbus

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki on it's way back

[Ginz]

I'm using a recessed nut on my M-12.  Going to loctite it when I get home.




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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki on it's way back

[Tony DeFilippo]

Thanks Bill!

Your ears must have been burning I was just thinking about you as I was
loading the XO-3 into the stand to donate some of it's parts to the Saluki
rebuild!  Never fear it will be built back up - back to M-bar's I think.
The Saluki should get a test roll around the neighborhood later tonight.
I've got the HS, BB, crankset and brake calipers installed so far...  once
I harvest the saddle/post, albatross bars and pedals off the XO-3 I'll be
back in business.

I held up the old fork (w/ the original nice green paint) up to the new one
a minute ago and they are pretty close actually.  Just that the new coat
has a dull finish instead of sparkling.

I'd love to see some pic's of the Purple People Eater sometime!

Tony



On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Bill webe...@gmail.com wrote:

 Looks mighty good. The green and cream brings back fond memories of a
 Saluki I once owned.  Now get it assembled and back on the road where it
 belongs. That first ride will suggest that you should sell all your other
 bikes and keep this one. That's what my Purple People Eater as someone
 calls it tells me every time I ride it.

 Bill repeat Saluki offender Eberle
 Columbus

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki on it's way back

[Tony DeFilippo]

Just confirmed the frame arrived at home today... Good thing I'm returning from 
a work trip tomorrow morning.  'New' bike day tomorrow!!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki on it's way back

[Tony DeFilippo]

Yes, if you loose the fork crown bolt for some reason and your rack is
loaded the only place for it to go is forward/down onto the wheel or onto
the ground (depending on the strut length).  Both of those have a fully
enclosed hole on the fork crown tab though.  The Berthoud had a curious
feature where the fork crown tab just had a 'U' to house the bolt.  With
that 'U' it meant that even a loose fork crown bolt and not full removal
could result in the rack falling forward.

Lot's of people have used that Berthoud rack w/o problems I'm sure, I did
for nearly a year.  If you check your hardware pre-ride and add a safety
like the Riv toe strap idea I think it's probably good to go.

A Canti stud rack like the M-12 seems to have less potential for something
going wrong in my opinion.



On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 11:54 AM, Rod Holland rholland1...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Tony,

 Do you think the Nitto M-18 or Mark's Rack share this failure mode?

 rod

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki on it's way back

[Tony DeFilippo]

Thanks Bobby, Tim and Minh!  It's going to be pretty sweet.  And yes
Loctite/nyloc will be used wherever applicable! :)

On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 1:46 PM, Montclair BobbyB montclairbob...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Glad you're OK, Tony... And if you're gonna build it, might as well do it
 RIGHT!!!  Those are some choice components...  Can't wait to see it back
 together.  BB


 On Sunday, May 17, 2015 at 10:58:48 PM UTC-4, Tony DeFilippo wrote:


 http://dr2dc.blogspot.com/2015/05/re-building-saluki-components-highlights.html

 Component glamour shots as I anxiously await my frame.  After almost 9
 month's I should be less than 2 weeks away from getting the Saluki back out
 on the trails here is the first of what should be several rapid fire
 posts on the build.  Everything is ready and waiting so I expect to have
 her rolling w/in 24hrs of receipt from the powdercoater.

 Today's ride to Port City Brewery in Alexandria on the Bombadil was the
 perfect thing to keep my mind occupied though.  Great weather all around
 here in DC lately and I'm looking forward to getting in several solid
 commuting days this week.  More soon!

 Tony


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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki on it's way back

[Steve Palincsar]

On 05/19/2015 01:45 PM, Minh wrote:

Hmm nylock bolt would have prevented this?

On Tuesday, May 19, 2015 at 12:58:43 PM UTC-4, Tony DeFilippo wrote:

Yes, if you loose the fork crown bolt for some reason and your
rack is loaded the only place for it to go is forward/down onto
the wheel or onto the ground (depending on the strut length). 
Both of those have a fully enclosed hole on the fork crown tab

though.  The Berthoud had a curious feature where the fork crown
tab just had a 'U' to house the bolt.  With that 'U' it meant that
even a loose fork crown bolt and not full removal could result in
the rack falling forward.
Lot's of people have used that Berthoud rack w/o problems I'm
sure, I did for nearly a year.  If you check your hardware
pre-ride and add a safety like the Riv toe strap idea I think it's
probably good to go.
A Canti stud rack like the M-12 seems to have less potential for
something going wrong in my opinion.




This mishap was an installation failure, not a rack design issue.


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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki on it's way back

[Rod Holland]

Tony,

Do you think the Nitto M-18 or Mark's Rack share this failure mode?

rod

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki on it's way back

[Tim Gavin]

Yes, there is little to go wrong with the M-12.  No moving parts.  It's the
cheapest Nitto front rack, while it's also strong and lovely.  It's a great
option where it fits, and the Sackville Trunksack Small is a perfect match.

Sorry to hear about your crash, Tony.

Tim

On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 11:58 AM, Tony DeFilippo vpi...@gmail.com wrote:



 A Canti stud rack like the M-12 seems to have less potential for something
 going wrong in my opinion.



 On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 11:54 AM, Rod Holland rholland1...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Tony,

 Do you think the Nitto M-18 or Mark's Rack share this failure mode?

 rod



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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki on it's way back

[Minh]

Hmm nylock bolt would have prevented this?

On Tuesday, May 19, 2015 at 12:58:43 PM UTC-4, Tony DeFilippo wrote:

 Yes, if you loose the fork crown bolt for some reason and your rack is 
 loaded the only place for it to go is forward/down onto the wheel or onto 
 the ground (depending on the strut length).  Both of those have a fully 
 enclosed hole on the fork crown tab though.  The Berthoud had a curious 
 feature where the fork crown tab just had a 'U' to house the bolt.  With 
 that 'U' it meant that even a loose fork crown bolt and not full removal 
 could result in the rack falling forward.
  
 Lot's of people have used that Berthoud rack w/o problems I'm sure, I did 
 for nearly a year.  If you check your hardware pre-ride and add a safety 
 like the Riv toe strap idea I think it's probably good to go.  
  
 A Canti stud rack like the M-12 seems to have less potential for something 
 going wrong in my opinion.
  


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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki on it's way back

[Tony DeFilippo]

Blakcloud - I've seen that toe strap idea on Riv's site as well and think
it's a good one.  The Berthoud rack was kind of like a Nitto R-14 but for
the front so when it was no longer attached to the fork crown it naturally
was able to swing down/forward.  I'll not use one like that again.
Rigid/non-hinged support struts and a fork crown thru bolt that is integral
to the rack are requirements as far as I'm concerned now.  As for the
single ring, I'm going 8 speed in the back, cheap chains and cassettes,
easier friction shifting and I don't miss the extra gear.  I didn't notice
a problem w/ chain keeping once I went to the WI SS ring, it's not one of
the newer 'wide-narrow' versions but I'll probably skip the chain keeper
unless it becomes a problem.

Thanks Erl and Patrick!

On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Deacon Patrick lamontg...@mac.com wrote:

 Ouch! Glad you're OK. That strap idea is a good one.

 With abandon,
 Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki

[cyclotourist]

Gorgeous...!

On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 4:26 PM, Benz, Sunnyvale, CA benzouy...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Interesting! I've never noticed that with other Rivendells before. In my
 experience, these only appear on old mountain bikes, such as my Waterford
 lugged mountain bike (model 2400; in clear powder coat so you can actually
 see the silver brazing):


 https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-eIE6o-EHgDU/VUauX2TU0SI/AJk/-oVJVCQtVuY/s1600/Waterford2400-10-M.jpg



 On Sunday, May 3, 2015 at 7:33:24 AM UTC-7, Kellie wrote:

 Lungimsam noticed this unusual detail at the seat cluster of my 10 y/o
 Saluki so cool.


 https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pGyA7SdSIuM/VUYxnjJqKOI/AYw/g837_luVtLI/s1600/2015-05-03%2B06.46.46.jpg



 On Saturday, April 25, 2015 at 9:40:45 PM UTC-7, Lungimsam wrote:

 Wait a second...is that some kinda brake cable eyelet brazed onto the
 seat cluster? I have never seen that before. Do all Salukis come with that?

 Wait another second...is that a cloisonné trimmed headbadge?

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David

Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace

it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki

[Patrick Moore]

A bit too simple minus chain and pedals, but doubtless this very
commendable complication will be added in due time.

Purty color, too. Let us know how it rides.

I think it cries out for some red bar tape!

Patrick Moore, who thinks red tape and bags (thanks, D. Banzer!!)
complements (and compliments) the Sage Green and Sour Cream of his '03 Curt
very nicely in ABQ, NM.

On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Deacon Patrick lamontg...@mac.com wrote:

 Looking good, Kellie! A good, clean, simple build. Enjoy the ride!

 With abandon,
 Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki or Bleriot PBH?

[David Stein]

Awesome chart, thank you!


On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Michael john11.2...@gmail.com wrote:

 Full color Bleriot brochure with pBH chart and Geometry chart:



 Here is the full brochuyre


  
 http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/bleriot_bro.pdfhttp://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cyclofiend.com%2FImages%2Fbleriot_bro.pdfsa=Dsntz=1usg=AFQjCNHPTAHJT3544Q1638oMnlQNJnEVIA
 Show trimmed content

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki love tires

[David Hays]

Finally installed the Dia Comp 750s with the VO Zeppelins.
With a bit of fiddling, I'm pleased.
David

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-COCKVTXichU/UfB-1RAO46I/AFE/c9iWVihJgoU/s1600/AHH-Build-7.24.13.jpg


On Saturday, June 22, 2013 2:17:37 PM UTC-4, Davidbea wrote:

 I understand the Saluki and Homer have similar 'issues' with Hetres and 
 fenders.
 I'm switching to Dia Comp 750 center pulls from the silver side pulls as 
 it looks like that will give me a little more clearance.
 I've picked up the brakes but haven't got a chance to put them on.
 Still conflicted about trying hammered Honjos or VO Zeppelins but the 
 price difference is certainly pointing one way.
 David


 On Jun 22, 2013, at 6:06 AM, Michael Hechmer mhec...@gmail.comjavascript: 
 wrote:

 The place that looks tight is not so much the width, but the rear length. 
  It looks like the tire might hit the too long rear bolt that honjo  vo 
 use on al fenders.  Bertoud fenders definitely offer more front to back 
 clearance.  These fenders came to me used and I don't know if the stays 
 have been cut. I'll have too pull them apart and inspect the ends.

 Michael

 On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 11:43:41 PM UTC-4, jeffrey kane wrote:

 Hetres will fit your Saluki front + back just fine. Fenders, on the other 
 hand, can be an issue. VO makes a few sizes ... you'll want to measure 
 yours first to be sure ... look for at last 52mm inside across the span. I 
 use 50mm SS Berthoud's (via Mike Kone's online store) on both a Saluki and 
 a Bleriot. There's some trade off in coverage but no problems with fit 
 anywhere.

 On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 6:33:23 PM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote:

 I am loving my new Saluki with Pari- Moto tires.  What a blend of 
 comfort  performance!  But I am also looking ahead and wondering if the 
 Heters will fit under the VO Al fenders.  It looks like a kinda tight fit. 
  Any experience?

 Michael†


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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki love tires

[David Hays]

I understand the Saluki and Homer have similar 'issues' with Hetres and fenders.
I'm switching to Dia Comp 750 center pulls from the silver side pulls as it 
looks like that will give me a little more clearance.
I've picked up the brakes but haven't got a chance to put them on.
Still conflicted about trying hammered Honjos or VO Zeppelins but the price 
difference is certainly pointing one way.
David


On Jun 22, 2013, at 6:06 AM, Michael Hechmer mhech...@gmail.com wrote:

 The place that looks tight is not so much the width, but the rear length.  It 
 looks like the tire might hit the too long rear bolt that honjo  vo use on 
 al fenders.  Bertoud fenders definitely offer more front to back clearance.  
 These fenders came to me used and I don't know if the stays have been cut. 
 I'll have too pull them apart and inspect the ends.
 
 Michael
 
 On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 11:43:41 PM UTC-4, jeffrey kane wrote:
 Hetres will fit your Saluki front + back just fine. Fenders, on the other 
 hand, can be an issue. VO makes a few sizes ... you'll want to measure yours 
 first to be sure ... look for at last 52mm inside across the span. I use 50mm 
 SS Berthoud's (via Mike Kone's online store) on both a Saluki and a Bleriot. 
 There's some trade off in coverage but no problems with fit anywhere.
 
 On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 6:33:23 PM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote:
 I am loving my new Saluki with Pari- Moto tires.  What a blend of comfort  
 performance!  But I am also looking ahead and wondering if the Heters will 
 fit under the VO Al fenders.  It looks like a kinda tight fit.  Any 
 experience?
 
 Michael†
 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki love tires

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I've seen Hetres on a fendered A Homer Hilson and it fit, but boy did it
not have much wiggle room.  My comfort zone suggests having a pencil width
of space between the tire and the fender, while the Hetre I saw would be
lucky to have half a pencil width. I would go with William's suggestion of
using Lierre tires if I really wanted something with more tread than the
Pari Moto, but YMMV.

Good luck!
Toshi



On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 8:43 PM, jeffrey kane jsk_onl...@mac.com wrote:

 Hetres will fit your Saluki front + back just fine. Fenders, on the other
 hand, can be an issue. VO makes a few sizes ... you'll want to measure
 yours first to be sure ... look for at last 52mm inside across the span. I
 use 50mm SS Berthoud's (via Mike Kone's online store) on both a Saluki and
 a Bleriot. There's some trade off in coverage but no problems with fit
 anywhere.


 On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 6:33:23 PM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote:

 I am loving my new Saluki with Pari- Moto tires.  What a blend of comfort
  performance!  But I am also looking ahead and wondering if the Heters
 will fit under the VO Al fenders.  It looks like a kinda tight fit.  Any
 experience?

 Michael†

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki love tires

[Steve Palincsar]

Or, put the wider fender that Compass sells on the Saluki.  That's what I did 
with mine when I put Hetres on.  I did have to trim the bottom front edge of 
the back fender to get it to fit between the chainstays.  I've got photos on my 
flickr site showing what I did.

- Original Message -
From: Toshi Takeuchi tto...@gmail.com
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 5:04:32 PM
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki love  tires


I've seen Hetres on a fendered A Homer Hilson and it fit, but boy did it not 
have much wiggle room.  My comfort zone suggests having a pencil width of space 
between the tire and the fender, while the Hetre I saw would be lucky to have 
half a pencil width. I would go with William's suggestion of using Lierre tires 
if I really wanted something with more tread than the Pari Moto, but YMMV. 
  
Good luck! 
Toshi 


  
On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 8:43 PM, jeffrey kane  jsk_onl...@mac.com  wrote: 


Hetres will fit your Saluki front + back just fine. Fenders, on the other hand, 
can be an issue. VO makes a few sizes ... you'll want to measure yours first to 
be sure ... look for at last 52mm inside across the span. I use 50mm SS 
Berthoud's (via Mike Kone's online store) on both a Saluki and a Bleriot. 
There's some trade off in coverage but no problems with fit anywhere. 



On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 6:33:23 PM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote: 

I am loving my new Saluki with Pari- Moto tires.  What a blend of comfort  
performance!  But I am also looking ahead and wondering if the Heters will fit 
under the VO Al fenders.  It looks like a kinda tight fit.  Any experience? 


Michael† 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki love tires

[justinaugust]

I have VO Zeppelins with Hetres on mine. Side pull. No problems. 

-J

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki love tires

[Peter Morgano]

I ran the same set up, no issues.


On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 11:08 PM, justinaug...@gmail.com wrote:

 I have VO Zeppelins with Hetres on mine. Side pull. No problems.

 -J

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Shake Down Ride!

[samh]

My hamster must be in great shape, little guy is always running on that 
wheel, of course he is only in good shape to run on a wheel

I think he is training for that day when you forget to latch his cage! Do 
you notice him varying his workouts??

I'm also a ride to train person.  Although, I also ride sometimes to get 
places, and then I am not training.



On Friday, March 29, 2013 6:12:24 PM UTC-6, Peter M wrote:

 I was a 5 sport letterman, I am black belt and had offers to play college 
 football, albeit AAA schools, haha.  I used to be competitive in most 
 things but no offense to cyclists or runners in general but I just never 
 saw them as something that needed to be competitive. I ran cross country 
 but it was more about camaraderie than winning so I guess I just apply 
 that mantra to cycling nowadays.  More power to anyone who is disciplined 
 enough to basically compete against themselves, though it's more than I 
 could say for myself. I always hated weight training and aerobics during 
 wrestling and football. I am like Bruce now, just trying to be in enough 
 shape to enjoy the ride. 
 On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 4:00 PM, Deacon Patrick lamon...@mac.comjavascript:
  wrote:

 Fascinating, Patrick. I'm the opposite. I was über competitive pre-brain 
 injury. One of the hardest things for me to learn was to avoid going 
 anaerobic because of the additional stress and hormones it releases. What I 
 discovered, for me anyway, was just how much more enjoyment I got out of 
 doing whatever I was doing because I was doing it sustainably rather than 
 pushing myself to the edge. An unexpected benefit of doing that was I am 
 able to do it as fast now as pre-brain injury but with far less effort and 
 much more enjoyment.

 I love what you say about the time to reflect when exerting yourself. For 
 me, running and biking are beautiful times of prayer, active contemplation. 
 My body working is deep time for my clay, mind, and soul.

 With abandon,
 Patrick


 On Friday, March 29, 2013 1:50:49 PM UTC-6, Patrick in VT wrote:

 On Thursday, March 28, 2013 3:26:42 PM UTC-4, Peter M wrote:

  what are people really training for other that for more riding?  


 Training is more a byproduct of my lifestyle than anything else.  I'm 
 very goal oriented and tend to set goals in the areas of my life in which I 
 have some passion and maybe a sliver of talent. Reaching a goal is 
 incredibly gratifying - I love that feeling, regardless of whether my goal 
 is sport-oriented or not.  Truly, I don't consider training for running, 
 cycling or skiing any different than practicing the instruments I play - 
 I simply do exercises that help me reach my potential within the time 
 constraints my life will allow.  I just do stuff that will hopefully make 
 me better at what I like doing.  Participation in sport is another reason I 
 train.  I'm not competitive by nature, but I love sport.  It's fun and full 
 of emotion, which makes it a source of motivation for me.  which lends 
 consistency to my life ...and it's amazing how far we can get with 
 consistency.  do something daily for a few years and wow.  participation 
 also gets me more involved in my community - i live in a very active town 
 where people are outside doing stuff all the time. my city hosts a 
 marathon, a cycling stage race, triathlon nationals.  we have a big 'ole 
 lake and some mountains to play in.  being a part of that community brings 
 all kinds of positive reinforcement.  and then there are the upsides of 
 training, like good health and fitness.  and being able to share fun 
 experiences with family and friends.  and reduced stress.  and I sleep very 
 well.  there's a spiritual component to a good long ride or run too - i 
 appreciate the time i get to reflect when training and never take that 
 for granted.  training and just riding are pretty much the same for me. a 
 couple times a week, it's not just riding.  but that's fine too.  I still 
 enjoy it.

 sorry if that was a long answer to a question that intended to be 
 rhetorical!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Shake Down Ride!

[Patrick in VT]

On Thursday, March 28, 2013 3:26:42 PM UTC-4, Peter M wrote:

  what are people really training for other that for more riding?  


Training is more a byproduct of my lifestyle than anything else.  I'm very 
goal oriented and tend to set goals in the areas of my life in which I have 
some passion and maybe a sliver of talent. Reaching a goal is incredibly 
gratifying - I love that feeling, regardless of whether my goal is 
sport-oriented or not.  Truly, I don't consider training for running, 
cycling or skiing any different than practicing the instruments I play - 
I simply do exercises that help me reach my potential within the time 
constraints my life will allow.  I just do stuff that will hopefully make 
me better at what I like doing.  Participation in sport is another reason I 
train.  I'm not competitive by nature, but I love sport.  It's fun and full 
of emotion, which makes it a source of motivation for me.  which lends 
consistency to my life ...and it's amazing how far we can get with 
consistency.  do something daily for a few years and wow.  participation 
also gets me more involved in my community - i live in a very active town 
where people are outside doing stuff all the time. my city hosts a 
marathon, a cycling stage race, triathlon nationals.  we have a big 'ole 
lake and some mountains to play in.  being a part of that community brings 
all kinds of positive reinforcement.  and then there are the upsides of 
training, like good health and fitness.  and being able to share fun 
experiences with family and friends.  and reduced stress.  and I sleep very 
well.  there's a spiritual component to a good long ride or run too - i 
appreciate the time i get to reflect when training and never take that 
for granted.  training and just riding are pretty much the same for me. a 
couple times a week, it's not just riding.  but that's fine too.  I still 
enjoy it.

sorry if that was a long answer to a question that intended to be 
rhetorical!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Shake Down Ride!

[Deacon Patrick]

Fascinating, Patrick. I'm the opposite. I was über competitive pre-brain 
injury. One of the hardest things for me to learn was to avoid going 
anaerobic because of the additional stress and hormones it releases. What I 
discovered, for me anyway, was just how much more enjoyment I got out of 
doing whatever I was doing because I was doing it sustainably rather than 
pushing myself to the edge. An unexpected benefit of doing that was I am 
able to do it as fast now as pre-brain injury but with far less effort and 
much more enjoyment.

I love what you say about the time to reflect when exerting yourself. For 
me, running and biking are beautiful times of prayer, active contemplation. 
My body working is deep time for my clay, mind, and soul.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Friday, March 29, 2013 1:50:49 PM UTC-6, Patrick in VT wrote:

 On Thursday, March 28, 2013 3:26:42 PM UTC-4, Peter M wrote:

  what are people really training for other that for more riding?  


 Training is more a byproduct of my lifestyle than anything else.  I'm very 
 goal oriented and tend to set goals in the areas of my life in which I have 
 some passion and maybe a sliver of talent. Reaching a goal is incredibly 
 gratifying - I love that feeling, regardless of whether my goal is 
 sport-oriented or not.  Truly, I don't consider training for running, 
 cycling or skiing any different than practicing the instruments I play - 
 I simply do exercises that help me reach my potential within the time 
 constraints my life will allow.  I just do stuff that will hopefully make 
 me better at what I like doing.  Participation in sport is another reason I 
 train.  I'm not competitive by nature, but I love sport.  It's fun and full 
 of emotion, which makes it a source of motivation for me.  which lends 
 consistency to my life ...and it's amazing how far we can get with 
 consistency.  do something daily for a few years and wow.  participation 
 also gets me more involved in my community - i live in a very active town 
 where people are outside doing stuff all the time. my city hosts a 
 marathon, a cycling stage race, triathlon nationals.  we have a big 'ole 
 lake and some mountains to play in.  being a part of that community brings 
 all kinds of positive reinforcement.  and then there are the upsides of 
 training, like good health and fitness.  and being able to share fun 
 experiences with family and friends.  and reduced stress.  and I sleep very 
 well.  there's a spiritual component to a good long ride or run too - i 
 appreciate the time i get to reflect when training and never take that 
 for granted.  training and just riding are pretty much the same for me. a 
 couple times a week, it's not just riding.  but that's fine too.  I still 
 enjoy it.

 sorry if that was a long answer to a question that intended to be 
 rhetorical!


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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Shake Down Ride!

[Peter Morgano]

I was a 5 sport letterman, I am black belt and had offers to play college
football, albeit AAA schools, haha.  I used to be competitive in most
things but no offense to cyclists or runners in general but I just never
saw them as something that needed to be competitive. I ran cross country
but it was more about camaraderie than winning so I guess I just apply
that mantra to cycling nowadays.  More power to anyone who is disciplined
enough to basically compete against themselves, though it's more than I
could say for myself. I always hated weight training and aerobics during
wrestling and football. I am like Bruce now, just trying to be in enough
shape to enjoy the ride.
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 4:00 PM, Deacon Patrick lamontg...@mac.com wrote:

 Fascinating, Patrick. I'm the opposite. I was über competitive pre-brain
 injury. One of the hardest things for me to learn was to avoid going
 anaerobic because of the additional stress and hormones it releases. What I
 discovered, for me anyway, was just how much more enjoyment I got out of
 doing whatever I was doing because I was doing it sustainably rather than
 pushing myself to the edge. An unexpected benefit of doing that was I am
 able to do it as fast now as pre-brain injury but with far less effort and
 much more enjoyment.

 I love what you say about the time to reflect when exerting yourself. For
 me, running and biking are beautiful times of prayer, active contemplation.
 My body working is deep time for my clay, mind, and soul.

 With abandon,
 Patrick


 On Friday, March 29, 2013 1:50:49 PM UTC-6, Patrick in VT wrote:

 On Thursday, March 28, 2013 3:26:42 PM UTC-4, Peter M wrote:

  what are people really training for other that for more riding?


 Training is more a byproduct of my lifestyle than anything else.  I'm
 very goal oriented and tend to set goals in the areas of my life in which I
 have some passion and maybe a sliver of talent. Reaching a goal is
 incredibly gratifying - I love that feeling, regardless of whether my goal
 is sport-oriented or not.  Truly, I don't consider training for running,
 cycling or skiing any different than practicing the instruments I play -
 I simply do exercises that help me reach my potential within the time
 constraints my life will allow.  I just do stuff that will hopefully make
 me better at what I like doing.  Participation in sport is another reason I
 train.  I'm not competitive by nature, but I love sport.  It's fun and full
 of emotion, which makes it a source of motivation for me.  which lends
 consistency to my life ...and it's amazing how far we can get with
 consistency.  do something daily for a few years and wow.  participation
 also gets me more involved in my community - i live in a very active town
 where people are outside doing stuff all the time. my city hosts a
 marathon, a cycling stage race, triathlon nationals.  we have a big 'ole
 lake and some mountains to play in.  being a part of that community brings
 all kinds of positive reinforcement.  and then there are the upsides of
 training, like good health and fitness.  and being able to share fun
 experiences with family and friends.  and reduced stress.  and I sleep very
 well.  there's a spiritual component to a good long ride or run too - i
 appreciate the time i get to reflect when training and never take that
 for granted.  training and just riding are pretty much the same for me. a
 couple times a week, it's not just riding.  but that's fine too.  I still
 enjoy it.

 sorry if that was a long answer to a question that intended to be
 rhetorical!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Shake Down Ride!

[Patrick in VT]

On Wednesday, March 27, 2013 8:53:33 AM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:

 I always ride (or run) so I can have an easy conversation. No doubt I look 
 like I am, a bit over the edge, talking to myself. Grin. If you want to 
 know more about this general approach and geek out on heart rate a formula, 
 check out Phil Maffetone's Big Book of Endurance. The idea is to build up 
 your aerobic fitness, so you go faster with the same effort after a while. 
 Works really well. Have fun!


Patrick - I'm curious about your experience in applying Maffetone-style 
training on the bike.  I think his protocol has several upsides ... 
day-in-day-out energy and reduced risk of injury, in particular.  i think 
it's a great formula for health.  and if i was a dedicated runner, I'd 
probably do strict Maff for 2-3months.  but the big limiter for me is the 
time/volume to make progress and improve performance on Maff training 
alone.  I'd need to run approx. 50-60mi/week for 4-6 months  to reach and 
keep the fitness I get on 20-30mi/week with some higher intensity work 
thrown in.  I haven't even considered Maff style training on the bike 
because of the time/volume I'd need to make progress.  How much volume are 
you doing to see measurable improvement? 


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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Shake Down Ride!

[Deacon Patrick]

Hey Patrick. I have no idea what my volume is, either running or biking. I 
don't track milage, speed, or anything else on my runs or bikes, with the 
sole exception of what is necessary for navigation. But everything I do is 
within MAF, with two exceptions. Biking at 10,000 ft. or above when 
climbing in first gear, I may have to go above my MAF, thus dipping into 
anaerobic. Running now and then it just feels right to go for it, so I do. 
That's 4-6 times a year.

Doing MAF training in my experience does not require as high a volume as 
you describe to yield results. When I first began, I had to walk up the 
trails I ran up with the same effort after a few months. I would guess I do 
20-30 miles of running a week, and 20-100 miles a week on the bike. Yes, 
MAF seems painfully slow when yu first start. But the results (at least for 
me) came quickly. It also makes possible doing long runs/rides without any 
food because I only use the carbs already in my system.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, March 28, 2013 10:03:41 AM UTC-6, Patrick in VT wrote:

 On Wednesday, March 27, 2013 8:53:33 AM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:

 I always ride (or run) so I can have an easy conversation. No doubt I 
 look like I am, a bit over the edge, talking to myself. Grin. If you want 
 to know more about this general approach and geek out on heart rate a 
 formula, check out Phil Maffetone's Big Book of Endurance. The idea is to 
 build up your aerobic fitness, so you go faster with the same effort after 
 a while. Works really well. Have fun!


 Patrick - I'm curious about your experience in applying Maffetone-style 
 training on the bike.  I think his protocol has several upsides ... 
 day-in-day-out energy and reduced risk of injury, in particular.  i think 
 it's a great formula for health.  and if i was a dedicated runner, I'd 
 probably do strict Maff for 2-3months.  but the big limiter for me is the 
 time/volume to make progress and improve performance on Maff training 
 alone.  I'd need to run approx. 50-60mi/week for 4-6 months  to reach and 
 keep the fitness I get on 20-30mi/week with some higher intensity work 
 thrown in.  I haven't even considered Maff style training on the bike 
 because of the time/volume I'd need to make progress.  How much volume are 
 you doing to see measurable improvement? 




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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Shake Down Ride!

[Patrick in VT]

On Thursday, March 28, 2013 12:30:34 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
Doing MAF training in my experience does not require as high a volume as 
you describe to yield results

Thanks for the reply.  Like any training protocol, I think it really 
depends on an individual's current level of fitness, what his/her goals 
are, and what inputs we respond to. there's a lot of variability, person to 
person.  I'm certainly not opposed to riding/running slow ... I do often 
and it's integral to my training.  But a strict Maff programs wouldn't do 
anything for me unless I significantly increased my volume because there's 
no progress without some kind of training stress (Optimal Stress + Optimal 
Recovery = Optimal Progress).  With Maff, the additional stress is 
introduced with more aerobic work (training at low intensity means one can 
do longer sessions and/or train daily). 

As an example, my current target for an on-road 5k is 18:30.  I'm running 
19:xx's now at that distance on 4 runs/wk (about 20-30mpw) - long easy run, 
2 tempo runs and 1 interval run.  Only the long easy run would I be close 
to a Maff approved HR.   If I were to do each run at my Maff HR, there is 
no way my time would improve . .. rather, I'd plateau very quickly and 
there would be no improvement unless and until I added stress, either with 
more volume or some intensity.  The famous Maffers I know of, like Mark 
Allen, were doing *enormous* volume for months at a time (then doing a 
build/speedwork phase on top of that, by the way).

I have no doubt I could hit 18:30 on a Maff program if I could run 70-80mpw 
...that ain't gonna happen for me, so I have to introduce stress in the 
form of intensity to keep things moving in the right direction.  training 
gets really simple time is a fixed variable.  anyway, this is way off-topic 
..  .let's go offlist if you want to keep it going.  

on-topic comment: Michael's perceived lack of punch is most likely a very 
relative term given what I know of the commute he used to have.  Westford 
to Burlington has to be about 40mi roundtrip with a good amount of up in 
either direction, probably some wind to battle, tacky dirt roads .. .. 
that's a baller commute!  better believe that fellow is fit! 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Shake Down Ride!

[Deacon Patrick]

there's no progress without some kind of training stress

Not if you are over-stressed to begin with.

One premise of Maffetone's training is that most people are over stressing 
their bodies by doing too much anaerobic training. The reset for this is 
to remove the stress and allow the body to catch up with itself. His advice 
for world class athletes is to remove as many stressors as possible, 
including intervals and tempo runs. Why? Two reasons. First, the body needs 
to heal from the adrenalin and cortisol and friends coursing through it's 
system. Second, to build up aerobic capacity, the base on which any 
anaerobic effort happens. When the base is small, we always engage 
anaerobic (sugar as the primary fuel is Maffetone's definition) in order to 
run fast. Yes, volume helps in building the aerobic capacity, but healing 
from over training and building the base to whatever your standard load is 
will get you farther than you likely realize. Maffetone's approach, in my 
experience, is much like Grant's approach to cycling. What we have been 
told in the last 30+ years is wrong and we need to return to basics to get 
it right. From there, if we are doing a specific application, we can easily 
branch out from that base. Maffetone is not against anaerobic training, but 
says that without an aerobic base you will not get as fast as you can with 
one.

As far as incorporating MAF into cycling, that is easy. It is simply a 
matter of gaging your effort and staying within that rather than going 
above it. It really is amazing how quickly you get faster with the same 
effort. You may find using a heart rate monitor helpful until you learn 
what your MAF feels like. I simply go by feel and can easily tell when I am 
pushing above my MAF (maximum aerobic function).

On Thursday, March 28, 2013 12:46:31 PM UTC-6, Patrick in VT wrote:



 On Thursday, March 28, 2013 12:30:34 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
 Doing MAF training in my experience does not require as high a volume as 
 you describe to yield results

 Thanks for the reply.  Like any training protocol, I think it really 
 depends on an individual's current level of fitness, what his/her goals 
 are, and what inputs we respond to. there's a lot of variability, person to 
 person.  I'm certainly not opposed to riding/running slow ... I do often 
 and it's integral to my training.  But a strict Maff programs wouldn't do 
 anything for me unless I significantly increased my volume because there's 
 no progress without some kind of training stress (Optimal Stress + Optimal 
 Recovery = Optimal Progress).  With Maff, the additional stress is 
 introduced with more aerobic work (training at low intensity means one can 
 do longer sessions and/or train daily). 

 As an example, my current target for an on-road 5k is 18:30.  I'm running 
 19:xx's now at that distance on 4 runs/wk (about 20-30mpw) - long easy run, 
 2 tempo runs and 1 interval run.  Only the long easy run would I be close 
 to a Maff approved HR.   If I were to do each run at my Maff HR, there is 
 no way my time would improve . .. rather, I'd plateau very quickly and 
 there would be no improvement unless and until I added stress, either with 
 more volume or some intensity.  The famous Maffers I know of, like Mark 
 Allen, were doing *enormous* volume for months at a time (then doing a 
 build/speedwork phase on top of that, by the way).

 I have no doubt I could hit 18:30 on a Maff program if I could run 
 70-80mpw ...that ain't gonna happen for me, so I have to introduce stress 
 in the form of intensity to keep things moving in the right direction.  
 training gets really simple time is a fixed variable.  anyway, this is way 
 off-topic ..  .let's go offlist if you want to keep it going.  

 on-topic comment: Michael's perceived lack of punch is most likely a 
 very relative term given what I know of the commute he used to have.  
 Westford to Burlington has to be about 40mi roundtrip with a good amount of 
 up in either direction, probably some wind to battle, tacky dirt roads .. 
 .. that's a baller commute!  better believe that fellow is fit! 


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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Shake Down Ride!

[Peter Morgano]

I prefer to just ride my bike and when I get tired go home and watch some
TV. Why does everything have to be a thing?  what are people really
training for other that for more riding?  All this is just too Fredly for
my taste. My hamster must be in great shape, little guy is always running
on that wheel, of course he is only in good shape to run on a wheel
Its finally in the 50s here in NY, time to Just Ride.

On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 3:20 PM, Deacon Patrick lamontg...@mac.com wrote:

 there's no progress without some kind of training stress

 Not if you are over-stressed to begin with.

 One premise of Maffetone's training is that most people are over stressing
 their bodies by doing too much anaerobic training. The reset for this is
 to remove the stress and allow the body to catch up with itself. His advice
 for world class athletes is to remove as many stressors as possible,
 including intervals and tempo runs. Why? Two reasons. First, the body needs
 to heal from the adrenalin and cortisol and friends coursing through it's
 system. Second, to build up aerobic capacity, the base on which any
 anaerobic effort happens. When the base is small, we always engage
 anaerobic (sugar as the primary fuel is Maffetone's definition) in order to
 run fast. Yes, volume helps in building the aerobic capacity, but healing
 from over training and building the base to whatever your standard load is
 will get you farther than you likely realize. Maffetone's approach, in my
 experience, is much like Grant's approach to cycling. What we have been
 told in the last 30+ years is wrong and we need to return to basics to get
 it right. From there, if we are doing a specific application, we can easily
 branch out from that base. Maffetone is not against anaerobic training, but
 says that without an aerobic base you will not get as fast as you can with
 one.

 As far as incorporating MAF into cycling, that is easy. It is simply a
 matter of gaging your effort and staying within that rather than going
 above it. It really is amazing how quickly you get faster with the same
 effort. You may find using a heart rate monitor helpful until you learn
 what your MAF feels like. I simply go by feel and can easily tell when I am
 pushing above my MAF (maximum aerobic function).


 On Thursday, March 28, 2013 12:46:31 PM UTC-6, Patrick in VT wrote:



 On Thursday, March 28, 2013 12:30:34 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
 Doing MAF training in my experience does not require as high a volume as
 you describe to yield results

 Thanks for the reply.  Like any training protocol, I think it really
 depends on an individual's current level of fitness, what his/her goals
 are, and what inputs we respond to. there's a lot of variability, person to
 person.  I'm certainly not opposed to riding/running slow ... I do often
 and it's integral to my training.  But a strict Maff programs wouldn't do
 anything for me unless I significantly increased my volume because there's
 no progress without some kind of training stress (Optimal Stress + Optimal
 Recovery = Optimal Progress).  With Maff, the additional stress is
 introduced with more aerobic work (training at low intensity means one can
 do longer sessions and/or train daily).

 As an example, my current target for an on-road 5k is 18:30.  I'm running
 19:xx's now at that distance on 4 runs/wk (about 20-30mpw) - long easy run,
 2 tempo runs and 1 interval run.  Only the long easy run would I be close
 to a Maff approved HR.   If I were to do each run at my Maff HR, there is
 no way my time would improve . .. rather, I'd plateau very quickly and
 there would be no improvement unless and until I added stress, either with
 more volume or some intensity.  The famous Maffers I know of, like Mark
 Allen, were doing *enormous* volume for months at a time (then doing a
 build/speedwork phase on top of that, by the way).

 I have no doubt I could hit 18:30 on a Maff program if I could run
 70-80mpw ...that ain't gonna happen for me, so I have to introduce stress
 in the form of intensity to keep things moving in the right direction.
 training gets really simple time is a fixed variable.  anyway, this is way
 off-topic ..  .let's go offlist if you want to keep it going.

 on-topic comment: Michael's perceived lack of punch is most likely a
 very relative term given what I know of the commute he used to have.
 Westford to Burlington has to be about 40mi roundtrip with a good amount of
 up in either direction, probably some wind to battle, tacky dirt roads ..
 .. that's a baller commute!  better believe that fellow is fit!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Shake Down Ride!

[Michael Hechmer]

I use to race, but as I close in on 69, I find I am alergic to the word 
train.  I do believe in building an aerobic base, and believe, even if I 
don't actually practice it, that anerobic work outs once a week or so are 
good for me.  This winter, too cold for me to want to ride, and not enough 
snow for consistent Xcountry skiing and shoeing.  My main exercise has been 
going up and down stairs for 4 hours a day while replacing all the wood 
floors on the 2nd and 3rd floors of our house.  Should be a decent base, 
but my legs aren't used to turning in circles.  Anyway, at my age I'm just 
thrilled to get out and ride.  i spent a big chunk of my work career in a 
hospital and learned to be thankful that my kidneys still work!  Time for 
 my afternoon nap!

Michael

On Thursday, March 28, 2013 3:26:42 PM UTC-4, Peter M wrote:

 I prefer to just ride my bike and when I get tired go home and watch some 
 TV. Why does everything have to be a thing?  what are people really 
 training for other that for more riding?  All this is just too Fredly for 
 my taste. My hamster must be in great shape, little guy is always running 
 on that wheel, of course he is only in good shape to run on a wheel
 Its finally in the 50s here in NY, time to Just Ride. 

 On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 3:20 PM, Deacon Patrick lamon...@mac.comjavascript:
  wrote:

 there's no progress without some kind of training stress

 Not if you are over-stressed to begin with.

 One premise of Maffetone's training is that most people are over 
 stressing their bodies by doing too much anaerobic training. The reset 
 for this is to remove the stress and allow the body to catch up with 
 itself. His advice for world class athletes is to remove as many stressors 
 as possible, including intervals and tempo runs. Why? Two reasons. First, 
 the body needs to heal from the adrenalin and cortisol and friends coursing 
 through it's system. Second, to build up aerobic capacity, the base on 
 which any anaerobic effort happens. When the base is small, we always 
 engage anaerobic (sugar as the primary fuel is Maffetone's definition) in 
 order to run fast. Yes, volume helps in building the aerobic capacity, but 
 healing from over training and building the base to whatever your standard 
 load is will get you farther than you likely realize. Maffetone's approach, 
 in my experience, is much like Grant's approach to cycling. What we have 
 been told in the last 30+ years is wrong and we need to return to basics to 
 get it right. From there, if we are doing a specific application, we can 
 easily branch out from that base. Maffetone is not against anaerobic 
 training, but says that without an aerobic base you will not get as fast as 
 you can with one.

 As far as incorporating MAF into cycling, that is easy. It is simply a 
 matter of gaging your effort and staying within that rather than going 
 above it. It really is amazing how quickly you get faster with the same 
 effort. You may find using a heart rate monitor helpful until you learn 
 what your MAF feels like. I simply go by feel and can easily tell when I am 
 pushing above my MAF (maximum aerobic function).


 On Thursday, March 28, 2013 12:46:31 PM UTC-6, Patrick in VT wrote:



 On Thursday, March 28, 2013 12:30:34 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
 Doing MAF training in my experience does not require as high a volume 
 as you describe to yield results

 Thanks for the reply.  Like any training protocol, I think it really 
 depends on an individual's current level of fitness, what his/her goals 
 are, and what inputs we respond to. there's a lot of variability, person to 
 person.  I'm certainly not opposed to riding/running slow ... I do often 
 and it's integral to my training.  But a strict Maff programs wouldn't do 
 anything for me unless I significantly increased my volume because there's 
 no progress without some kind of training stress (Optimal Stress + Optimal 
 Recovery = Optimal Progress).  With Maff, the additional stress is 
 introduced with more aerobic work (training at low intensity means one can 
 do longer sessions and/or train daily). 

 As an example, my current target for an on-road 5k is 18:30.  I'm 
 running 19:xx's now at that distance on 4 runs/wk (about 20-30mpw) - long 
 easy run, 2 tempo runs and 1 interval run.  Only the long easy run would I 
 be close to a Maff approved HR.   If I were to do each run at my Maff HR, 
 there is no way my time would improve . .. rather, I'd plateau very quickly 
 and there would be no improvement unless and until I added stress, either 
 with more volume or some intensity.  The famous Maffers I know of, like 
 Mark Allen, were doing *enormous* volume for months at a time (then doing a 
 build/speedwork phase on top of that, by the way).

 I have no doubt I could hit 18:30 on a Maff program if I could run 
 70-80mpw ...that ain't gonna happen for me, so I have to introduce stress 
 in the form of intensity to keep things moving in the 

Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Shake Down Ride!

[Deacon Patrick]

The unracer approach pretty much matches the Maffetone approach. Grin. When 
people ask me as I pass them on the trail what I'm training for (as if 
that's the only reason to be running or biking) I laugh and lay Life! 
That gets the most quizzical looks and usually people are too baffled to 
respond.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, March 28, 2013 1:26:42 PM UTC-6, Peter M wrote:

 I prefer to just ride my bike and when I get tired go home and watch some 
 TV. Why does everything have to be a thing?  what are people really 
 training for other that for more riding?  All this is just too Fredly for 
 my taste. My hamster must be in great shape, little guy is always running 
 on that wheel, of course he is only in good shape to run on a wheel
 Its finally in the 50s here in NY, time to Just Ride. 

 On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 3:20 PM, Deacon Patrick lamon...@mac.comjavascript:
  wrote:

 there's no progress without some kind of training stress

 Not if you are over-stressed to begin with.

 One premise of Maffetone's training is that most people are over 
 stressing their bodies by doing too much anaerobic training. The reset 
 for this is to remove the stress and allow the body to catch up with 
 itself. His advice for world class athletes is to remove as many stressors 
 as possible, including intervals and tempo runs. Why? Two reasons. First, 
 the body needs to heal from the adrenalin and cortisol and friends coursing 
 through it's system. Second, to build up aerobic capacity, the base on 
 which any anaerobic effort happens. When the base is small, we always 
 engage anaerobic (sugar as the primary fuel is Maffetone's definition) in 
 order to run fast. Yes, volume helps in building the aerobic capacity, but 
 healing from over training and building the base to whatever your standard 
 load is will get you farther than you likely realize. Maffetone's approach, 
 in my experience, is much like Grant's approach to cycling. What we have 
 been told in the last 30+ years is wrong and we need to return to basics to 
 get it right. From there, if we are doing a specific application, we can 
 easily branch out from that base. Maffetone is not against anaerobic 
 training, but says that without an aerobic base you will not get as fast as 
 you can with one.

 As far as incorporating MAF into cycling, that is easy. It is simply a 
 matter of gaging your effort and staying within that rather than going 
 above it. It really is amazing how quickly you get faster with the same 
 effort. You may find using a heart rate monitor helpful until you learn 
 what your MAF feels like. I simply go by feel and can easily tell when I am 
 pushing above my MAF (maximum aerobic function).


 On Thursday, March 28, 2013 12:46:31 PM UTC-6, Patrick in VT wrote:



 On Thursday, March 28, 2013 12:30:34 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
 Doing MAF training in my experience does not require as high a volume 
 as you describe to yield results

 Thanks for the reply.  Like any training protocol, I think it really 
 depends on an individual's current level of fitness, what his/her goals 
 are, and what inputs we respond to. there's a lot of variability, person to 
 person.  I'm certainly not opposed to riding/running slow ... I do often 
 and it's integral to my training.  But a strict Maff programs wouldn't do 
 anything for me unless I significantly increased my volume because there's 
 no progress without some kind of training stress (Optimal Stress + Optimal 
 Recovery = Optimal Progress).  With Maff, the additional stress is 
 introduced with more aerobic work (training at low intensity means one can 
 do longer sessions and/or train daily). 

 As an example, my current target for an on-road 5k is 18:30.  I'm 
 running 19:xx's now at that distance on 4 runs/wk (about 20-30mpw) - long 
 easy run, 2 tempo runs and 1 interval run.  Only the long easy run would I 
 be close to a Maff approved HR.   If I were to do each run at my Maff HR, 
 there is no way my time would improve . .. rather, I'd plateau very quickly 
 and there would be no improvement unless and until I added stress, either 
 with more volume or some intensity.  The famous Maffers I know of, like 
 Mark Allen, were doing *enormous* volume for months at a time (then doing a 
 build/speedwork phase on top of that, by the way).

 I have no doubt I could hit 18:30 on a Maff program if I could run 
 70-80mpw ...that ain't gonna happen for me, so I have to introduce stress 
 in the form of intensity to keep things moving in the right direction.  
 training gets really simple time is a fixed variable.  anyway, this is way 
 off-topic ..  .let's go offlist if you want to keep it going.  

 on-topic comment: Michael's perceived lack of punch is most likely a 
 very relative term given what I know of the commute he used to have.  
 Westford to Burlington has to be about 40mi roundtrip with a good amount of 
 up in either direction, probably some wind to battle, tacky dirt 

Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Shake Down Ride!

[Patrick in VT]

On Thursday, March 28, 2013 3:20:24 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:

 His advice for world class athletes is to remove as many stressors as 
 possible, including intervals and tempo runs. Why?  

 
world class runners run upwards of 100mpw.  Pro cyclists will go upwards of 
20hours/week.  Nobody will get close to world class speed running as much 
50mpw or cycling 10hrs/week on Maffetone's program.  Comparing most 
people with world class athletes is a non-starter.  
 

 Maffetone is not against anaerobic training, but says that without an 
 aerobic base you will not get as fast as you can with one.
  

that's true of any training program.  there's nothing unique about the 
theory that a large aerobic base lays a good foundation for the adaptions 
and results that come when you layer higher intensity (anaerobic) work on 
top of that base.  it's crucial part of any training program - I can't 
think of a legit program that doesn't include a period of base-building, 
long-slow/steady-distance, etc.  The difference with MAF is how long you 
stay in that phase of training and what to do when you plateau.

  
  You may find using a heart rate monitor helpful until you learn what your 
 MAF feels like. I simply go by feel and can easily tell when I am pushing 
 above my MAF (maximum aerobic function).
  

 
I use an HRM (it's good tool, but not the only one) and I've had 
physiological testing done a few times .. . I know my LT numbers, my true 
max heart rate, VO2max, etc.  I've worked with a coach.  I can dial-in my 
training pretty well at this point. Bottom line is that if I'm injury free 
and making progress, i'm not overstressed.  Doesn't matter if I'm doing 7 
easy days a week with high volume or 3 hard days a week with less volume 
and high intensity.  It's simply a matter of getting enough stress and 
enough rest in a given amount of time to get the results you want.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Shake Down Ride!

[Patrick in VT]

On Thursday, March 28, 2013 3:53:55 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote

 The unracer approach pretty much matches the Maffetone approach. Grin.

Umm . . .figuring out your max aerobic capacity, training with a HRM and 
having that dictate how hard you're allowed to go while you're out on a 
bike or run doesn't sound very unracer to me!  I get the point though . 
..low-intensity is well-suited to the unracer philosophy.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Shake Down Ride!

[Deacon Patrick]

OK. I'm looking for something very different from MAF than you are looking 
to achieve, so I am unable to be of further help. Enjoy playing!

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, March 28, 2013 3:58:22 PM UTC-6, Patrick in VT wrote:


 On Thursday, March 28, 2013 3:20:24 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:

 His advice for world class athletes is to remove as many stressors as 
 possible, including intervals and tempo runs. Why?  

  
 world class runners run upwards of 100mpw.  Pro cyclists will go upwards 
 of 20hours/week.  Nobody will get close to world class speed running as 
 much 50mpw or cycling 10hrs/week on Maffetone's program.  Comparing most 
 people with world class athletes is a non-starter.  
  

 Maffetone is not against anaerobic training, but says that without an 
 aerobic base you will not get as fast as you can with one.
  

 that's true of any training program.  there's nothing unique about the 
 theory that a large aerobic base lays a good foundation for the adaptions 
 and results that come when you layer higher intensity (anaerobic) work on 
 top of that base.  it's crucial part of any training program - I can't 
 think of a legit program that doesn't include a period of base-building, 
 long-slow/steady-distance, etc.  The difference with MAF is how long you 
 stay in that phase of training and what to do when you plateau.

  
  You may find using a heart rate monitor helpful until you learn what 
 your MAF feels like. I simply go by feel and can easily tell when I am 
 pushing above my MAF (maximum aerobic function).
  

  
 I use an HRM (it's good tool, but not the only one) and I've had 
 physiological testing done a few times .. . I know my LT numbers, my true 
 max heart rate, VO2max, etc.  I've worked with a coach.  I can dial-in my 
 training pretty well at this point. Bottom line is that if I'm injury free 
 and making progress, i'm not overstressed.  Doesn't matter if I'm doing 7 
 easy days a week with high volume or 3 hard days a week with less volume 
 and high intensity.  It's simply a matter of getting enough stress and 
 enough rest in a given amount of time to get the results you want.


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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Shake Down Ride!

[Bruce Herbitter]

As you ride more, this will improve. Riding at a pace (no matter how slow)
that you can enjoy the ride in and the surroundings you ride through helps
immensely. The improvement curve on stamina is usually quick. Hills for me
are definitely different than flat. I use other muscles to climb than go
flat and I can tell when they are out of practice on the first hill!

Enjoy the bike :)

On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 5:11 AM, Michael Hechmer mhech...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hurting - only a little - just a bit dismayed by my lack of punch on the
 pedals.  It felt like I bogged down on every little hill, and the head when
 on the 9 miles back.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki Shake Down Ride!

[Deacon Patrick]

I always ride (or run) so I can have an easy conversation. No doubt I look 
like I am, a bit over the edge, talking to myself. Grin. If you want to 
know more about this general approach and geek out on heart rate a formula, 
check out Phil Maffetone's Big Book of Endurance. The idea is to build up 
your aerobic fitness, so you go faster with the same effort after a while. 
Works really well. Have fun!

With abandon,
Patrick

On Wednesday, March 27, 2013 6:28:27 AM UTC-6, Fullylugged wrote:

 As you ride more, this will improve. Riding at a pace (no matter how slow) 
 that you can enjoy the ride in and the surroundings you ride through helps 
 immensely. The improvement curve on stamina is usually quick. Hills for me 
 are definitely different than flat. I use other muscles to climb than go 
 flat and I can tell when they are out of practice on the first hill!

 Enjoy the bike :)

 On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 5:11 AM, Michael Hechmer 
 mhec...@gmail.comjavascript:
  wrote:

 Hurting - only a little - just a bit dismayed by my lack of punch on the 
 pedals.  It felt like I bogged down on every little hill, and the head when 
 on the 9 miles back.  

  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki frameset for sale 650b

[jimmy johnsen]

 Thanks Leslie. 
 
I did like the bike. Can't say I'll mis it though. There are to many other 
great rides to try out. I can always buy another Riv. I wish they wern't so 
expensive especially the customs. At 51 years young I'm going back to my first 
love. Fixed gear road and singlespeed mountain biking, Salsa Selma Ti SS!!! I 
love the Quickbeam but could never seem to find a 58 silver one used. I decided 
to get a Custom Gunnar/crosshairs 58cm w. horizontal dropouts. Less money and 
still the same quality as a Riv. It's alot quicker then the Saluk. Maybe not as 
comfy. I'm trying to cut down on the amount of time I spend on the bike. R/T's 
to Brooklyn would take to long. Although I'll be limited to what terrain I can 
do with a fix I'll get a quicker workout and can spend more time w. wife and 8 
year old daughter. Waterford was a great company to deal with as is Riv. There 
is only one bike I regret selling and that was a Yamaguchi track bike I had. I 
do like going fast!
 
Hobie
 


 From: Leslie leslie.bri...@gmail.com
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 10:26 AM
Subject: [RBW] Re: Saluki frameset for sale 650b
  

Have to admit, that makes me sad. I know you had wanted to keep it complete as 
it was a great build, but the complete build was more than I needed another 
bike...    Have to admit, that's a cool color on the bike.   It was a tad small 
for me, but I still wanted it, especially after it was parted     If it had 
been a 60 canti-luki, I don't know how I would have said no.    

Again, I know you liked the bike, and probably hated to see it go   I 
almost feel like I need to pass along condolences





On Wednesday, February 27, 2013 12:44:18 PM UTC-5, hobie wrote:
Frame was sold.
On Tuesday, February 26, 2013 10:06:27 AM UTC-5, hobie wrote:
Pea Sage Green 58cm 650b sidepull/centerpull Saluki 3 water bottle making it a 
Waterford built frameset, correct me if I'm wrong on that one. I'm the 
original owner and purchased it from The CountryBbike Shop in Ohio. Wonderful 
riding bike! It does have a number of paint chips, scratches from usage. It 
also has a ding/dent around 4-5mm long on the top tube. I rode it like this 
for around a year. It has been framed saved from the getgo a few times and the 
chips covered w. clear nail polish. Alot of the scratches/chips will be hidden 
once the bike is a assembled. Frame and fork. Email me off list for pictures.  
Asking $775.00 plus actual shipping.
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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki

[Joe Bunik]

FWIW, I'm pretty sure Vince of RBW fame is still selling his 60cm
canti-luki... mmm butterscotch.
=- Joe Bunik
Walnut Creek, CA

On 12/6/12, C.J. Filip c.j.fi...@hotmail.com wrote:
 Sounds like we have nearly the same PBH.  I can straddle the 60cm
 Saluki in bare feet with Hetres, and not want/need to tip toe due to
 top tube clearance.  Recommend going bigger.

 On Dec 5, 7:16 pm, SeanMac seanm...@gmail.com wrote:
 Thank you for all of your help today.  I spent the day on jury duty, so I
 am a bit slow in sending thanks.

 When I returned home I had my son help me to re-measure my PBH.  We ended
 up taking several measurements, typically getting a PBH between 86 - 87.
 Based on Riv's chart, his seems to put me at a 56 Sam, a 58-60 Saluki (or
 Bleriot) and 58-61 Homer.

 I don't need a new bike any time soon, but it would be nice to take
 advantage of a deal.  However, since a new bike is a bike purchase, I
 want
 to make the best decision possible - even if that means not buying
 anything.  The problem, of course, is that one can never know for sure
 what
 deals will come by.  However, since I live in Buffalo, it is pretty
 unlikely that I will be outdoors on a bike any time soon.  I probably
 should hang tight and wait for a deal that I can't pass up.

 Sorry for thinking out loud.  I do appreciate all or your help / advice.
 Someday I'll make up my mind!

 Sean







 On Wednesday, December 5, 2012 10:51:52 AM UTC-5, Frank wrote:

  I have a 62cm Saluki and a 63cm AHH and my PBH is 89.5. Mine are set up
  differently, but if I were to go down the like-to-like line on a
  per-component basis, they would be very similar. I love them both, ride
  them both almost equally, and I've done light touring on both.

  I've also ridden each of them loaded with 5 days worth of clothing and
  stuff to support an extended vacation / stay in PDX on the Seattle to
  Portland ride in years past. I didn't weigh them, but would guess that
  with
  two panniers and a Hoss pretty fully packed I probably had 45lbs. of
  jank
  plus 165lbs of me on the bike. Both bikes worked fine at 100m/d, though
  I'd
  say they were close to the limit.

  In any event, the Saluki is a great bike and would be well suited to
  the
  riding you describe, though so would the Sam. Can't see how you could
  go
  wrong either way.

  On Wednesday, December 5, 2012 5:35:26 AM UTC-8, SeanMac wrote:

  I have noticed several Salukis for sale recently on ebay.  I know that
  this bike was produced before the Bleriot, but I have had a somewhat
  difficult time finding information about it on the web.  I am hoping
  that a
  list member or three might be able to shed some light on this bike for
  me.

   I'm in the market for a bike for longer rides and perhaps some short
  touring - Erie Canal, C  O Trail, etc.  I've had my eyes on a Sam for
  some
  time, but have not yet pulled the trigger (might on the all-blue Sam -
  what
  a deal).  Would a Saluki be well-suited for this kind of riding or is
  it
  really designed as a country bike / credit card tourer / rambler /
  century
  ride bike?

  How would the Saluki compare to a Homer?

  I can't seem to find a chart that matches PBH to Saluki sizing.  Should
  I
  simply use the general chart on the Riv site, matching the 650b section
  to
  my height to choose the correct Saluki?

  Thanks,

  Sean

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki

[William]

Canti_Luki!??!?  You are KILLING ME!

On Thursday, December 6, 2012 12:56:00 PM UTC-8, jbu...@gmail.com wrote:

 FWIW, I'm pretty sure Vince of RBW fame is still selling his 60cm 
 canti-luki... mmm butterscotch. 
 =- Joe Bunik 
 Walnut Creek, CA 

 On 12/6/12, C.J. Filip c.j@hotmail.com javascript: wrote: 
  Sounds like we have nearly the same PBH.  I can straddle the 60cm 
  Saluki in bare feet with Hetres, and not want/need to tip toe due to 
  top tube clearance.  Recommend going bigger. 
  
  On Dec 5, 7:16 pm, SeanMac seanm...@gmail.com wrote: 
  Thank you for all of your help today.  I spent the day on jury duty, so 
 I 
  am a bit slow in sending thanks. 
  
  When I returned home I had my son help me to re-measure my PBH.  We 
 ended 
  up taking several measurements, typically getting a PBH between 86 - 
 87. 
  Based on Riv's chart, his seems to put me at a 56 Sam, a 58-60 Saluki 
 (or 
  Bleriot) and 58-61 Homer. 
  
  I don't need a new bike any time soon, but it would be nice to take 
  advantage of a deal.  However, since a new bike is a bike purchase, I 
  want 
  to make the best decision possible - even if that means not buying 
  anything.  The problem, of course, is that one can never know for sure 
  what 
  deals will come by.  However, since I live in Buffalo, it is pretty 
  unlikely that I will be outdoors on a bike any time soon.  I probably 
  should hang tight and wait for a deal that I can't pass up. 
  
  Sorry for thinking out loud.  I do appreciate all or your help / 
 advice. 
  Someday I'll make up my mind! 
  
  Sean 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  On Wednesday, December 5, 2012 10:51:52 AM UTC-5, Frank wrote: 
  
   I have a 62cm Saluki and a 63cm AHH and my PBH is 89.5. Mine are set 
 up 
   differently, but if I were to go down the like-to-like line on a 
   per-component basis, they would be very similar. I love them both, 
 ride 
   them both almost equally, and I've done light touring on both. 
  
   I've also ridden each of them loaded with 5 days worth of clothing 
 and 
   stuff to support an extended vacation / stay in PDX on the Seattle to 
   Portland ride in years past. I didn't weigh them, but would guess 
 that 
   with 
   two panniers and a Hoss pretty fully packed I probably had 45lbs. of 
   jank 
   plus 165lbs of me on the bike. Both bikes worked fine at 100m/d, 
 though 
   I'd 
   say they were close to the limit. 
  
   In any event, the Saluki is a great bike and would be well suited to 
   the 
   riding you describe, though so would the Sam. Can't see how you could 
   go 
   wrong either way. 
  
   On Wednesday, December 5, 2012 5:35:26 AM UTC-8, SeanMac wrote: 
  
   I have noticed several Salukis for sale recently on ebay.  I know 
 that 
   this bike was produced before the Bleriot, but I have had a somewhat 
   difficult time finding information about it on the web.  I am hoping 
   that a 
   list member or three might be able to shed some light on this bike 
 for 
   me. 
  
I'm in the market for a bike for longer rides and perhaps some 
 short 
   touring - Erie Canal, C  O Trail, etc.  I've had my eyes on a Sam 
 for 
   some 
   time, but have not yet pulled the trigger (might on the all-blue Sam 
 - 
   what 
   a deal).  Would a Saluki be well-suited for this kind of riding or 
 is 
   it 
   really designed as a country bike / credit card tourer / rambler / 
   century 
   ride bike? 
  
   How would the Saluki compare to a Homer? 
  
   I can't seem to find a chart that matches PBH to Saluki sizing. 
  Should 
   I 
   simply use the general chart on the Riv site, matching the 650b 
 section 
   to 
   my height to choose the correct Saluki? 
  
   Thanks, 
  
   Sean 
  
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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki

[Sean McAtee]

My pbh is about 88.  Riv recommended that I go with a 56 Sam.  Not sure about 
my size on a Homer and I can't seem to access Riv's sizing chart



Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 5, 2012, at 9:27 AM, C.J. Filip c.j.fi...@hotmail.com wrote:

 Hi Sean,
 
 What's your PBH?  If you're in the taller overlap zone of the Homers
 and the larger Salukis (59cm-62cm), I may be able to contribute to
 your questions.
 
 I recently added a 60cm Saluki to compliment and potentially replace
 my 59cm Hilsen.  For now, I feel I'm at the point where I've
 identified a great size and ergonomic setup, nearly perfect, and now
 begin the process of splitting hairs.  The Saluki is able to run
 slightly wider (Hetre) tires and has cantis and feels a hair larger,
 but that's probably due to the puffier 42mm Hetres (my Homer is an
 early build and has the narrower tire clearance).
 
 Aesthetically, the bike looks to be of the same high quality.  My
 Homer was made at Waterford but the Saluki probably at Toyo.  The lugs
 appear to be mismatched, the top lug of the headtube appearing to be
 like the current Homers and the bottom lug of the headtube appearing
 to be like the older pointy lugs.  I like it.
 
 Here is an archive page on the Saluki:
 http://web.archive.org/web/20070225162042/http://www.rivbike.com/bikes/saluki
 
 On Dec 5, 5:35 am, SeanMac seanm...@gmail.com wrote:
 I have noticed several Salukis for sale recently on ebay.  I know that this
 bike was produced before the Bleriot, but I have had a somewhat difficult
 time finding information about it on the web.  I am hoping that a list
 member or three might be able to shed some light on this bike for me.
 
  I'm in the market for a bike for longer rides and perhaps some short
 touring - Erie Canal, C  O Trail, etc.  I've had my eyes on a Sam for some
 time, but have not yet pulled the trigger (might on the all-blue Sam - what
 a deal).  Would a Saluki be well-suited for this kind of riding or is it
 really designed as a country bike / credit card tourer / rambler / century
 ride bike?
 
 How would the Saluki compare to a Homer?
 
 I can't seem to find a chart that matches PBH to Saluki sizing.  Should I
 simply use the general chart on the Riv site, matching the 650b section to
 my height to choose the correct Saluki?
 
 Thanks,
 
 Sean
 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki

[cyclotourist]

Probably right around a 60-61cm frame for level TT bikes. I'm an 89 and
ride 61-62m frames.


On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 6:34 AM, Sean McAtee seanm...@gmail.com wrote:

 My pbh is about 88.  Riv recommended that I go with a 56 Sam.  Not sure
 about my size on a Homer and I can't seem to access Riv's sizing chart



 Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 5, 2012, at 9:27 AM, C.J. Filip c.j.fi...@hotmail.com wrote:

  Hi Sean,
 
  What's your PBH?  If you're in the taller overlap zone of the Homers
  and the larger Salukis (59cm-62cm), I may be able to contribute to
  your questions.
 
  I recently added a 60cm Saluki to compliment and potentially replace
  my 59cm Hilsen.  For now, I feel I'm at the point where I've
  identified a great size and ergonomic setup, nearly perfect, and now
  begin the process of splitting hairs.  The Saluki is able to run
  slightly wider (Hetre) tires and has cantis and feels a hair larger,
  but that's probably due to the puffier 42mm Hetres (my Homer is an
  early build and has the narrower tire clearance).
 
  Aesthetically, the bike looks to be of the same high quality.  My
  Homer was made at Waterford but the Saluki probably at Toyo.  The lugs
  appear to be mismatched, the top lug of the headtube appearing to be
  like the current Homers and the bottom lug of the headtube appearing
  to be like the older pointy lugs.  I like it.
 
  Here is an archive page on the Saluki:
 
 http://web.archive.org/web/20070225162042/http://www.rivbike.com/bikes/saluki
 
  On Dec 5, 5:35 am, SeanMac seanm...@gmail.com wrote:
  I have noticed several Salukis for sale recently on ebay.  I know that
 this
  bike was produced before the Bleriot, but I have had a somewhat
 difficult
  time finding information about it on the web.  I am hoping that a list
  member or three might be able to shed some light on this bike for me.
 
   I'm in the market for a bike for longer rides and perhaps some short
  touring - Erie Canal, C  O Trail, etc.  I've had my eyes on a Sam for
 some
  time, but have not yet pulled the trigger (might on the all-blue Sam -
 what
  a deal).  Would a Saluki be well-suited for this kind of riding or is it
  really designed as a country bike / credit card tourer / rambler /
 century
  ride bike?
 
  How would the Saluki compare to a Homer?
 
  I can't seem to find a chart that matches PBH to Saluki sizing.  Should
 I
  simply use the general chart on the Riv site, matching the 650b section
 to
  my height to choose the correct Saluki?
 
  Thanks,
 
  Sean
 
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RE: [RBW] Re: Saluki

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Mine is 86.5, and Riv suggested a 61cm Homer.  Fits perfectly with Jack Browns, 
but not a lot of extra room -- I don't mind that, and I think Keven knew that 
when he suggested the 61.

-Original Message-
From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sean McAtee
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 9:35 AM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki

My pbh is about 88.  Riv recommended that I go with a 56 Sam.  Not sure about 
my size on a Homer and I can't seem to access Riv's sizing chart



Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 5, 2012, at 9:27 AM, C.J. Filip c.j.fi...@hotmail.com wrote:

 Hi Sean,
 
 What's your PBH?  If you're in the taller overlap zone of the Homers 
 and the larger Salukis (59cm-62cm), I may be able to contribute to 
 your questions.
 
 I recently added a 60cm Saluki to compliment and potentially replace 
 my 59cm Hilsen.  For now, I feel I'm at the point where I've 
 identified a great size and ergonomic setup, nearly perfect, and now 
 begin the process of splitting hairs.  The Saluki is able to run 
 slightly wider (Hetre) tires and has cantis and feels a hair larger, 
 but that's probably due to the puffier 42mm Hetres (my Homer is an 
 early build and has the narrower tire clearance).
 
 Aesthetically, the bike looks to be of the same high quality.  My 
 Homer was made at Waterford but the Saluki probably at Toyo.  The lugs 
 appear to be mismatched, the top lug of the headtube appearing to be 
 like the current Homers and the bottom lug of the headtube appearing 
 to be like the older pointy lugs.  I like it.
 
 Here is an archive page on the Saluki:
 http://web.archive.org/web/20070225162042/http://www.rivbike.com/bikes
 /saluki
 
 On Dec 5, 5:35 am, SeanMac seanm...@gmail.com wrote:
 I have noticed several Salukis for sale recently on ebay.  I know 
 that this bike was produced before the Bleriot, but I have had a 
 somewhat difficult time finding information about it on the web.  I 
 am hoping that a list member or three might be able to shed some light on 
 this bike for me.
 
  I'm in the market for a bike for longer rides and perhaps some short 
 touring - Erie Canal, C  O Trail, etc.  I've had my eyes on a Sam 
 for some time, but have not yet pulled the trigger (might on the 
 all-blue Sam - what a deal).  Would a Saluki be well-suited for this 
 kind of riding or is it really designed as a country bike / credit 
 card tourer / rambler / century ride bike?
 
 How would the Saluki compare to a Homer?
 
 I can't seem to find a chart that matches PBH to Saluki sizing.  
 Should I simply use the general chart on the Riv site, matching the 
 650b section to my height to choose the correct Saluki?
 
 Thanks,
 
 Sean
 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki porn

[Steven Frederick]

Brass--the pewter was a dullish silvery-grey.

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 11:23 PM, jeffrey kane jsk_onl...@mac.com wrote:
 Here's the head badge, it's a that gold(ish) color  no idea if that
 makes it the brass or pewter version offered at the time. and an
 interesting note about the butterscotch color for the original owed, Steve
 Frederick:

 I have the very first butterscotch Saluki--custom colors were available for
 a modest up charge in the first run of frames.  I wanted something similar
 to the harvest gold color offered on customs, maybe a bit richer, with a
 little more brown, and after a few email exchanges, Grant came up with that
 color for me.  He like it so well he made it the standard color for
 subsequent runs--not entirely a new shade for Rivendell; it is very nearly
 the same color as one of my early WoolyWarm jerseys...


 On Friday, August 17, 2012 12:06:12 PM UTC-4, jeffrey kane wrote:

 Sorry, been having an amazing 18 months on this baby and just had to post
 this pin-up pic ...

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki porn

[Steven Frederick]

On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 12:30 PM, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote:
 That's absurdly yummy.  Was it built originally with the bridge in the rear
 for a centerpull?  Like, did it precede the existence of Silver sidepulls?
 I'm swooning over your fender clearances.



Yep, the first batch or three of 'Luki's had the option of either
centerpulls or cantis.  Superlong reach tektro/silver sidepulls came
along a bit later...

Steve

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RE: [RBW] Re: Saluki Tubing Specs

[Frederick, Steve]

To the best of my knowledge, all Rivendells have always been made from OS 
tubing, varied in stiffness/butting profile over size ranges...

Steve 

-Original Message-
From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
[mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com]on Behalf Of rcnute
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 1:00 AM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: [RBW] Re: Saluki Tubing Specs


My dim recollection is that the tubing was stouter on 58s and up.  I
thought the Japanese Rivs were OS Tohoku or Kasei.

Ryan

On Oct 17, 9:18 pm, Rob Harrison robha...@gmail.com wrote:
 All this talk about standard vs OS tubing over on some other list has me 
 curious: Anyone know the tubing specs for a 62cm Saluki? Who made the tubing? 
 Was it all standard size? I've heard it might have been 8-5-8 all around. Was 
 that true in every size? Grant?

 Thank you!

 Rob in Seattle

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RE: [RBW] Re: Saluki build decisions

[Frederick, Steve]

I'm pretty sure Saluki's are spaced 132.5mm so you can run hubs with either 
OLD.  Mine is anyway.

Alternatively, you can have a 130 hub respaced to 135--my LBS did that for the 
105-hubbed wheels I put on Anne's Bleriot...

Steve

-Original Message-
From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
[mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com]on Behalf Of nathan spindel
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:13 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki build decisions


Ah, you're right, William. The Saluki is indeed 135mm and the VO wheels are 
130mm - oops. I'll be able to figure something out.

-nathan

On Oct 4, 2010, at 6:50 PM, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote:

 I thought the Saluki was 135mm spacing?
 
 
 
 
 
 nathan spindel wrote:
 I ended up going with the VO Diagonale / 105 wheels from my LBS — it ended 
 up being the best value with the local bike coalition discount and no need 
 to pay shipping. The lady also likes the polish on the rims. ;)
 
 -nathan
 
 On Oct 4, 2010, at 6:20 AM, franklyn sini...@msn.com wrote:
 
 I agree, but the $50 difference really lose meaning after about 3-4
 years of use.
 
 Franklyn
 
 On Oct 4, 4:03 am, Johnny Alien johnnyal...@verizon.net wrote:
 For a light person with only light touring in mind I think the $200
 set is a screaming deal. I have the same set on my Bleriot and have
 had no issues in the past two years with a ton of miles.  If you are
 considering heavier touring you may want to upgrade but it sounds like
 you are not.
 
 On Oct 4, 4:21 am, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 
 
 I've had GB Oursons on my Saluki for about a year now and like them a 
 lot. At 60
 - 65 psi they are as fast as I can go, at 50 - 55 psi they are more 
 comfortable
 over poorer surfaces. Tread pattern is the same as Col de la Vie, but 
 with a
 lighter, more lively casing. Based on little wear they evidence after 
 1,000
 miles, I suspect I'll have them for a while.
 
 
 From: rb b...@projectblu.com
 To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Sun, October 3, 2010 6:57:03 PM
 Subject: [RBW] Re: Saluki build decisions
 
 For a light person, get light tires!  You also might want to consider
 the 32mm Grand Bois Cypres tires which are fast and long lasting.  Col
 de Vie sucks a bit of life out of a lively bike; great for lots of off
 roading and winter, but less so on the road.  The Cypres offer more
 than enough cush for a lighter person + the speed factor is really
 great.
 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki build decisions

[nathan spindel]

Interestingly, the geometry chart at
http://www.rivbike.com/images/static/upload/RBW-GeometryCharts.pdf
says the Saluki is spaced for 135mm, but my LBS measured it at 132.1mm
this morning. So, VO Diagonale / 105 wheels it is.

-nathan

On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 6:24 AM, Frederick, Steve
frede...@mail.lib.msu.edu wrote:
 I'm pretty sure Saluki's are spaced 132.5mm so you can run hubs with either 
 OLD.  Mine is anyway.

 Alternatively, you can have a 130 hub respaced to 135--my LBS did that for 
 the 105-hubbed wheels I put on Anne's Bleriot...

 Steve

 -Original Message-
 From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
 [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com]on Behalf Of nathan spindel
 Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:13 PM
 To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki build decisions


 Ah, you're right, William. The Saluki is indeed 135mm and the VO wheels are 
 130mm - oops. I'll be able to figure something out.

 -nathan

 On Oct 4, 2010, at 6:50 PM, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote:

 I thought the Saluki was 135mm spacing?





 nathan spindel wrote:
 I ended up going with the VO Diagonale / 105 wheels from my LBS — it ended 
 up being the best value with the local bike coalition discount and no need 
 to pay shipping. The lady also likes the polish on the rims. ;)

 -nathan

 On Oct 4, 2010, at 6:20 AM, franklyn sini...@msn.com wrote:

 I agree, but the $50 difference really lose meaning after about 3-4
 years of use.

 Franklyn

 On Oct 4, 4:03 am, Johnny Alien johnnyal...@verizon.net wrote:
 For a light person with only light touring in mind I think the $200
 set is a screaming deal. I have the same set on my Bleriot and have
 had no issues in the past two years with a ton of miles.  If you are
 considering heavier touring you may want to upgrade but it sounds like
 you are not.

 On Oct 4, 4:21 am, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote:



 I've had GB Oursons on my Saluki for about a year now and like them a 
 lot. At 60
 - 65 psi they are as fast as I can go, at 50 - 55 psi they are more 
 comfortable
 over poorer surfaces. Tread pattern is the same as Col de la Vie, but 
 with a
 lighter, more lively casing. Based on little wear they evidence after 
 1,000
 miles, I suspect I'll have them for a while.

 
 From: rb b...@projectblu.com
 To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Sun, October 3, 2010 6:57:03 PM
 Subject: [RBW] Re: Saluki build decisions

 For a light person, get light tires!  You also might want to consider
 the 32mm Grand Bois Cypres tires which are fast and long lasting.  Col
 de Vie sucks a bit of life out of a lively bike; great for lots of off
 roading and winter, but less so on the road.  The Cypres offer more
 than enough cush for a lighter person + the speed factor is really
 great.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki build decisions

[Bruce]

I've had GB Oursons on my Saluki for about a year now and like them a lot. At 
60 
- 65 psi they are as fast as I can go, at 50 - 55 psi they are more comfortable 
over poorer surfaces. Tread pattern is the same as Col de la Vie, but with a 
lighter, more lively casing. Based on little wear they evidence after 1,000 
miles, I suspect I'll have them for a while.





From: rb b...@projectblu.com
To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, October 3, 2010 6:57:03 PM
Subject: [RBW] Re: Saluki build decisions

For a light person, get light tires!  You also might want to consider
the 32mm Grand Bois Cypres tires which are fast and long lasting.  Col
de Vie sucks a bit of life out of a lively bike; great for lots of off
roading and winter, but less so on the road.  The Cypres offer more
than enough cush for a lighter person + the speed factor is really
great.


  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki build decisions

[nathan spindel]

Oh right, I got confused between the two different RBW budget
wheelsets! Sorry about that - thanks for the clarification.

-nathan

On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 9:34 PM, franklyn sini...@msn.com wrote:
 Nathan,

 I think you need to compare apples to apples:

 The $200 wheels (http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/budget-twin-
 hollow-wheelset/18-312) are twin hollow rims, which are single-walled
 rims, that are inferior to synergy and dyad. I believe handspun build
 these, too.

 Riv does sell synergy/LX wheels (most likely built by handspun) but it
 costs $250. Add tax on top of that suddenly you are looking at $270+.
 If you take 5% back as a Riv member, then you are dead even with $260
 shipped (no tax if you buy from Universal Cycles).

 Handspun also has the dynamo option, which Riv does not offer at the
 budget level.

 Franklyn

 On Oct 3, 8:52 pm, nathan spindel nath...@gmail.com wrote:
 Thanks all for the advice so far!

 Those Handspun wheels (Dyad, Deore LX) seem like a good deal at $260
 shipped, but I'm wondering how they compare to RBW's $200 Budget
 Synergy Wheelset (Synergy, Deore) which Rich goes over a bit. Since
 I'm a local I won't have to pay shipping on the wheels from RBW. Now
 I'm leaning in that direction…

 Cypres, B-Line, Pari Moto, and Hetre all sound like good ways to go –
 thankfully there are so many nice options in 650B.

 -nathan



 On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 4:53 PM, franklyn sini...@msn.com wrote:
  Nathan,

  Of course I was there when you bought the frame. I have used several
  pairs of tektro R556 (or silver) extra long reach brakes. Paired with
  the right kind of brake pads they are quite effective. For Briana, who
  is lightweight, they won't flex as much.

  Dia Compe 750 center pull brakes are another good option. They give
  you wonderful modulation and good stopping power. They can be gotten
  for pretty cheaply on ebay.

  I like the new Soma B-line tires on my Kogswell right now. Smooth,
  quiet, and corner well. They are wider than the CdlV but narrower than
  the Hetres. I will start with those. Hetres are great, but they are
  pretty pricy.

  Wheels. You can't go wrong with Rich-built wheels, but they cost more.
  I have been using wheels built by Handspun. They use Velocity Dyad and
  Shimano LX hubs (even have dynamo option).

 http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=31825;...
 http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=35520;...
 http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=31826;...

  They might not be Rich-good, but they are pretty good. I don't know
  how well VO wheels hold up, but they are also cheaper.

  I have parts sitting around that might be useful to your build.
  Contact me with what you need and I will see what I have.

  Best,
  franklyn

  On Oct 3, 3:40 pm, JL subfas...@gmail.com wrote:
  The Saluki is a tough bike.  Don't worry about the load amounts.

  The first thing I would ask is: What does she want?

  Building a bike up fro someone else is an interesting endeavor.  That
  person may, or may not, be interested in the same type of build.

  Personally, I would just steer clear of CdlV tires.  I have had
  nothing but bad luck and their irregular mounting drives me nuts.

  I ride with Hetres or fatty rumpkins on my Saluki.  They both fit fine
  under Berthoud 65mm fenders.  I have a cantilever brake Saluki so that
  might make a little bit of room available width wise. for the fenders.

  -Jason
  On Oct 3, 11:16 am, nathan spindel nath...@gmail.com wrote:

   Yesterday at the RBW garage sale I picked up a 50cm 650B Saluki frame.
   I'm going to build it up as a road bike / occasional light S24O
   hauler. The rider will be a lightweight 5'5 lady, so it'll be able to
   carry a 10-20 lb load just fine.

   I have much of the build planned out (Noodles w/ bar-ends, XD2, B-17,
   rear rack) but haven't decided on:

    1. brakes (Silvers or Dia-Compe's or Paul center-pulls?)
    2. wheels (Rich-built Synergy 32h 105?)
    3. tires (Soma Xpress 38? Pari-Moto? CdlV?)

   What would you suggest for those components, given the uses above?
   Thanks for your advice!

   -nathan

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki build decisions

[nathan spindel]

I ended up going with the VO Diagonale / 105 wheels from my LBS — it ended up 
being the best value with the local bike coalition discount and no need to pay 
shipping. The lady also likes the polish on the rims. ;)

-nathan

On Oct 4, 2010, at 6:20 AM, franklyn sini...@msn.com wrote:

 I agree, but the $50 difference really lose meaning after about 3-4
 years of use.
 
 Franklyn
 
 On Oct 4, 4:03 am, Johnny Alien johnnyal...@verizon.net wrote:
 For a light person with only light touring in mind I think the $200
 set is a screaming deal. I have the same set on my Bleriot and have
 had no issues in the past two years with a ton of miles.  If you are
 considering heavier touring you may want to upgrade but it sounds like
 you are not.
 
 On Oct 4, 4:21 am, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 
 
 I've had GB Oursons on my Saluki for about a year now and like them a lot. 
 At 60
 - 65 psi they are as fast as I can go, at 50 - 55 psi they are more 
 comfortable
 over poorer surfaces. Tread pattern is the same as Col de la Vie, but with a
 lighter, more lively casing. Based on little wear they evidence after 1,000
 miles, I suspect I'll have them for a while.
 
 
 From: rb b...@projectblu.com
 To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Sun, October 3, 2010 6:57:03 PM
 Subject: [RBW] Re: Saluki build decisions
 
 For a light person, get light tires!  You also might want to consider
 the 32mm Grand Bois Cypres tires which are fast and long lasting.  Col
 de Vie sucks a bit of life out of a lively bike; great for lots of off
 roading and winter, but less so on the road.  The Cypres offer more
 than enough cush for a lighter person + the speed factor is really
 great.
 
 -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki build decisions

[William]

I thought the Saluki was 135mm spacing?





nathan spindel wrote:
 I ended up going with the VO Diagonale / 105 wheels from my LBS — it ended up 
 being the best value with the local bike coalition discount and no need to 
 pay shipping. The lady also likes the polish on the rims. ;)

 -nathan

 On Oct 4, 2010, at 6:20 AM, franklyn sini...@msn.com wrote:

  I agree, but the $50 difference really lose meaning after about 3-4
  years of use.
 
  Franklyn
 
  On Oct 4, 4:03 am, Johnny Alien johnnyal...@verizon.net wrote:
  For a light person with only light touring in mind I think the $200
  set is a screaming deal. I have the same set on my Bleriot and have
  had no issues in the past two years with a ton of miles.  If you are
  considering heavier touring you may want to upgrade but it sounds like
  you are not.
 
  On Oct 4, 4:21 am, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 
 
  I've had GB Oursons on my Saluki for about a year now and like them a 
  lot. At 60
  - 65 psi they are as fast as I can go, at 50 - 55 psi they are more 
  comfortable
  over poorer surfaces. Tread pattern is the same as Col de la Vie, but 
  with a
  lighter, more lively casing. Based on little wear they evidence after 
  1,000
  miles, I suspect I'll have them for a while.
 
  
  From: rb b...@projectblu.com
  To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
  Sent: Sun, October 3, 2010 6:57:03 PM
  Subject: [RBW] Re: Saluki build decisions
 
  For a light person, get light tires!  You also might want to consider
  the 32mm Grand Bois Cypres tires which are fast and long lasting.  Col
  de Vie sucks a bit of life out of a lively bike; great for lots of off
  roading and winter, but less so on the road.  The Cypres offer more
  than enough cush for a lighter person + the speed factor is really
  great.
 
  --
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  RBW Owners Bunch group.
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  To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki build decisions

[nathan spindel]

Ah, you're right, William. The Saluki is indeed 135mm and the VO wheels are 
130mm - oops. I'll be able to figure something out.

-nathan

On Oct 4, 2010, at 6:50 PM, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote:

 I thought the Saluki was 135mm spacing?
 
 
 
 
 
 nathan spindel wrote:
 I ended up going with the VO Diagonale / 105 wheels from my LBS — it ended 
 up being the best value with the local bike coalition discount and no need 
 to pay shipping. The lady also likes the polish on the rims. ;)
 
 -nathan
 
 On Oct 4, 2010, at 6:20 AM, franklyn sini...@msn.com wrote:
 
 I agree, but the $50 difference really lose meaning after about 3-4
 years of use.
 
 Franklyn
 
 On Oct 4, 4:03 am, Johnny Alien johnnyal...@verizon.net wrote:
 For a light person with only light touring in mind I think the $200
 set is a screaming deal. I have the same set on my Bleriot and have
 had no issues in the past two years with a ton of miles.  If you are
 considering heavier touring you may want to upgrade but it sounds like
 you are not.
 
 On Oct 4, 4:21 am, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 
 
 I've had GB Oursons on my Saluki for about a year now and like them a 
 lot. At 60
 - 65 psi they are as fast as I can go, at 50 - 55 psi they are more 
 comfortable
 over poorer surfaces. Tread pattern is the same as Col de la Vie, but 
 with a
 lighter, more lively casing. Based on little wear they evidence after 
 1,000
 miles, I suspect I'll have them for a while.
 
 
 From: rb b...@projectblu.com
 To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Sun, October 3, 2010 6:57:03 PM
 Subject: [RBW] Re: Saluki build decisions
 
 For a light person, get light tires!  You also might want to consider
 the 32mm Grand Bois Cypres tires which are fast and long lasting.  Col
 de Vie sucks a bit of life out of a lively bike; great for lots of off
 roading and winter, but less so on the road.  The Cypres offer more
 than enough cush for a lighter person + the speed factor is really
 great.
 
 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
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 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group at 
 http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
 
 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki build decisions

[erik jensen]

3. for flat-free freedom, the marathon is hard to beat. also a fine offroad
tire.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki build decisions

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sun, 2010-10-03 at 12:52 -0700, Calm54 wrote:
 I have the Pari-motos on my Saluki 650b.  I have had two flats over
 900 miles.  The rear tire is now without tread but I really like these
 tires.  They are light and fast and good for pavement and gravel.  I
 just bought replacement Pari motos from Riv HQ.

We've been discussing Pari Motos over on the 650B list.  I just replaced
my back tire at 1650 miles.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki build decisions

[nathan spindel]

Thanks all for the advice so far!

Those Handspun wheels (Dyad, Deore LX) seem like a good deal at $260
shipped, but I'm wondering how they compare to RBW's $200 Budget
Synergy Wheelset (Synergy, Deore) which Rich goes over a bit. Since
I'm a local I won't have to pay shipping on the wheels from RBW. Now
I'm leaning in that direction…

Cypres, B-Line, Pari Moto, and Hetre all sound like good ways to go –
thankfully there are so many nice options in 650B.

-nathan

On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 4:53 PM, franklyn sini...@msn.com wrote:
 Nathan,

 Of course I was there when you bought the frame. I have used several
 pairs of tektro R556 (or silver) extra long reach brakes. Paired with
 the right kind of brake pads they are quite effective. For Briana, who
 is lightweight, they won't flex as much.

 Dia Compe 750 center pull brakes are another good option. They give
 you wonderful modulation and good stopping power. They can be gotten
 for pretty cheaply on ebay.

 I like the new Soma B-line tires on my Kogswell right now. Smooth,
 quiet, and corner well. They are wider than the CdlV but narrower than
 the Hetres. I will start with those. Hetres are great, but they are
 pretty pricy.

 Wheels. You can't go wrong with Rich-built wheels, but they cost more.
 I have been using wheels built by Handspun. They use Velocity Dyad and
 Shimano LX hubs (even have dynamo option).

 http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=31825category=3655
 http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=35520category=3655
 http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=31826category=3655

 They might not be Rich-good, but they are pretty good. I don't know
 how well VO wheels hold up, but they are also cheaper.

 I have parts sitting around that might be useful to your build.
 Contact me with what you need and I will see what I have.

 Best,
 franklyn

 On Oct 3, 3:40 pm, JL subfas...@gmail.com wrote:
 The Saluki is a tough bike.  Don't worry about the load amounts.

 The first thing I would ask is: What does she want?

 Building a bike up fro someone else is an interesting endeavor.  That
 person may, or may not, be interested in the same type of build.

 Personally, I would just steer clear of CdlV tires.  I have had
 nothing but bad luck and their irregular mounting drives me nuts.

 I ride with Hetres or fatty rumpkins on my Saluki.  They both fit fine
 under Berthoud 65mm fenders.  I have a cantilever brake Saluki so that
 might make a little bit of room available width wise. for the fenders.

 -Jason
 On Oct 3, 11:16 am, nathan spindel nath...@gmail.com wrote:



  Yesterday at the RBW garage sale I picked up a 50cm 650B Saluki frame.
  I'm going to build it up as a road bike / occasional light S24O
  hauler. The rider will be a lightweight 5'5 lady, so it'll be able to
  carry a 10-20 lb load just fine.

  I have much of the build planned out (Noodles w/ bar-ends, XD2, B-17,
  rear rack) but haven't decided on:

   1. brakes (Silvers or Dia-Compe's or Paul center-pulls?)
   2. wheels (Rich-built Synergy 32h 105?)
   3. tires (Soma Xpress 38? Pari-Moto? CdlV?)

  What would you suggest for those components, given the uses above?
  Thanks for your advice!

  -nathan

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saluki

[Steve Palincsar]

On Thu, 2010-05-20 at 15:28 -0700, Calm54 wrote:
 I am not worried about the 650b availability yet...  I like the size.

I think the slippery slope in question has to do with your ending up
with more than one 650B bike, not with questions of tire availability.
I started with a Saluki, too, and now have it plus two Kogswell P/Rs.

Re: tires, the buzz in the 650B community right now is regarding the
Pari Moto 38x650b, which has just reached our mailboxes.  I put them on
last night and took them for a ride today.  So far, everyone who has
tried them, myself included, is very enthusiastic.  Plush and fast:
what's not to like?  Well, maybe the fact that it costs about the same
as a Michelin Pro3Race 700x23... but then, you get a lot more tire for
your money.




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RE: [RBW] Re: Saluki

[Frederick, Steve]

terryg wrote:

and welcome to 650B!

Beware there may be a slippery slope ahead



Indeed.  My Saluki was my first 650b bike and I now have 5.  (Equally the fault 
of K.Pacenti, for bringing the wheelsize to mountain biking)

Steve

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