RE: [RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell?
There's a simple matter of finite capital, as well. Riv is always struggling with lack of capital when trying to bring products to market. I'd imagine they have to be pretty selective about what sorts of products they'll focus on, and I don't see a budget frame that fails to meet their aesthetic standards, focus and stated mission as a high priority... ...plus I don't believe Riv makes that much of it's money on frames/bikes. I'll bet it's made mostly on clothing, parts and accessories, things you can't easily get elsewhere. Steve likes lugs, likes Riv, Frederick, East Lansing, MI -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell?
On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 07:14 -0800, eflayer wrote: I am both impressed and dismayed with the degree of commitment to a single point of view. Whatever works works. Thinking there was a time when Grant thought he'd never leave Japan for Taiwan...and that time came. Granted, he is still making gorgeous lugged frames, now with cheaper labor. If Riv does make most of the profits on parts, then why not sell another Riv branded entry price gorgeous tigged frameset so more customers buy more parts? I see mostly upside for everyone and no downside. Except if it divides attention and leads to a loss of direction. But I'm betting a sharp marketeer such as is Grant Peterson could find a way to sell this kool aid to all of the naysayer in this group. It's Grant, not us, who have defined Rivendell's core value as lugged steel. He's said before, it's what defines Rivendell. If that's true, what you're asking is for him to give up his core value, lose his central focus, dilute his brand identity -- and all so you could have a cheaper offering? Race to the bottom was never a Rivendell value of any kind, why should it be one now? I think you're overlooking the obvious answer. Get a Surly LHT, get it powdercoated in Atlantis green, put on a set of Resurrectio decals and be happy. It's exactly the bike you want, and a price that Rivendell could never match because of economies of scale. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell?
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 9:14 AM, eflayer eddie.fla...@att.net wrote: I am both impressed and dismayed with the degree of commitment to a single point of view. Whatever works works. Thinking there was a time when Grant thought he'd never leave Japan for Taiwan...and that time came. Granted, he is still making gorgeous lugged frames, now with cheaper labor. If Riv does make most of the profits on parts, then why not sell another Riv branded entry price gorgeous tigged frameset so more customers buy more parts? I see mostly upside for everyone and no downside. Except if it divides attention and leads to a loss of direction. But I'm betting a sharp marketeer such as is Grant Peterson could find a way to sell this kool aid to all of the naysayer in this group. Ant, Waterford, Independent Fabrication, Moots - they all do lovely work with TIG'd frames, and they're arguably beautiful bikes, but it's a very different aesthetic than even the 'plain' single color Riv frames. The move to Taiwan production was, i think, a pure matter of survival. With the weakness of the dollar against the yen, they just couldn't afford to do business. I applaud Grant's stubborn aesthetic sense; he has a cohesive vision for the company, and that strong visual identity is a huge asset. Like Jim noted, there were many who claimed that Riv would be huge if they could sell a sub-$1k frame. Well, they produced it in the Bleriot and the following Taiwan-built bikes, and with each there's a small rush of pent-up demand, then it's back to business as usual. Certainly it's helping to grow Riv's market, but it's incremental. I don't have any sort of sales info, but i'll bet that a large percentage of those Taiwan frames are going to existing Riv customers as a second bike or friend/spouse bikes, and not as much to new customers as you'd think. That's pure guesswork, but based on some shop experience and lots of friends on Rivendells. The frames are the heart of the company. Most of us started buying small bits from Rivendell long before we could afford a frame, and accessories long after the frame, but it's that bike frame and the ride that it gives that makes the whole package work. If you take away the essential beauty of the frames, there's much less reason to stay around for the parts and bags and clothes and everything else. -- Bill Connell St. Paul, MN -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell?
On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 07:44 -0800, eflayer wrote: Steve, This is not about me. It is an idea. Please don't take it as an attack on everything you and Riv stand for. Just an idea. I don't take it as an attack -- certainly not an attack on anything I stand for. If adopted, it is an idea that would, I believe, harm Rivendell by causing it to lose its focus. Companies can change mission and values if there is a good reason to do so. Yes, and often that turns out to be the road to hell. Abercrombie and Fitch, anyone? If part of the mission was to give more people a chance to ride a Grant designed masterpiece, with or without lugs...then tigged would all of sudden be part of the mission. That isn't how /he/ sees it, based on what he's said about it in the past. Just because you and many others here don't see it, doesn't mean it can't or won't happen. I have nothing to do with it. I'm not even an enemy of welded frames. I have two steel TIG welded frames and I like them just fine. I don't define my core identity as LUGGED STEEL. I believe Rivendell does. Think of all the discussion we could have then. $700 tigged, $1000 Sam, $2000 Roadeo, $2500 custom. I'd buy it before Kogswell, Suly, SomaFab, Rawland, VO, etc. And I bet many others would too. So not about me, just an idea. How about a fully equipped Atlantis for $1095? Here it is: http://www.surlybikes.com/bikes/long_haul_trucker_complete/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
RE: [RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell?
Bill Connell wrote, in part: ...I applaud Grant's stubborn aesthetic sense; he has a cohesive vision for the company, and that strong visual identity is a huge asset... Yeah, I think they'd stand to lose more than they gain if they wander too far from that vision. I recall in an early Reader, Grant talked about how you used to be able to tell a bike's brand by it's Lug design. That it was a signature of sorts. And how he hoped that in 100 years, someone could dig a Rivendell out of a trash heap, paint and decals gone, rusty and filthy and see the lugs and say wow, this is a Rivendell! That matters to him and I suspect to most of us, too. Steve Frederick, East Lansing, MI -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell?
on 12/11/09 7:14 AM, eflayer at eddie.fla...@att.net wrote: I am both impressed and dismayed with the degree of commitment to a single point of view. Whatever works works. Thinking there was a time when Grant thought he'd never leave Japan for Taiwan...and that time came. Granted, he is still making gorgeous lugged frames, now with cheaper labor. If Riv does make most of the profits on parts, then why not sell another Riv branded entry price gorgeous tigged frameset so more customers buy more parts? I see mostly upside for everyone and no downside. Except if it divides attention and leads to a loss of direction. I think the inherent flaw is the idea of a gorgeous tig-welded bicycle frame. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that method of frame building, but they've never struck me as particularly good looking. The other downside (as another noted) certainly would be stress on working capital. Inventory costs money and needs to turn. Bike frames are relatively slow movers and expensive. Also, where do you stick 100 bike frames? Maybe you have to rent more space, hire an extra employee to manage and pack that part of the business. More expense, and probably more expense than than the sale of those bikes would cover. All of which sidesteps my basic question of why a TIG-welded frame is so important. The idea of using lugs to join frame tubes is a valid craft that Rivendell has chosen to maintain. - Jim -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Send In Your Photos! - Here's how: http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines There were messengers who named their bikes, but Chevette never would have done that, and somehow because she did think about it like it was something alive. William Gibson - Virtual Light -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell?
on 12/11/09 8:02 AM, eflayer at eddie.fla...@att.net wrote: Grant is capable of changing though, isn't he. I think you are all correct and he probably won't consider tig. But as I recall he both never used to mention the weight of bikes, framesets and now look at how he is discussing/selling the lightness of Roadeo. I know the Roadeo fits the lugged mission, but here he is drifting toward the lightness factor. I think he usually talks about the qualities of each design in the context of how they are used. For the Roadeo, which is geared towards a club riding idea, weight is certainly part of the equation. For most other applications, it isn't as big a deal as large manufacturers would have everyone believe. It doesn't really strike me incompatible with any earlier statements. Really my ideal was to get the lightness, that geo, quill, rear rack brazeons, canti/vbrakes, in a $700-$1000 price point. And I thought off shore and tigged was a good formula. I thought that was the Sam Hillborne... - Jim -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Send In Your Photos! - Here's how: http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines There were messengers who named their bikes, but Chevette never would have done that, and somehow because she did think about it like it was something alive. William Gibson - Virtual Light -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell?
Grant wrote that his bikes were affordable by people with a job and bicycle priorities. His goal was never to build bikes at every price point. The moves from Waterford (and back again in a limited way) to Toyo to Maxway (I think that is his Taiwanese supplier. They certainly supply many big labels with pre designed and custom work) reflect a goal of providing the type of bike he loves at the same relative level of expense in a changing economy. I am reminded of old Fezziwig ( Christmas Carol) who laments the soulless mercenary changes to his world, but says he won;t change and adopt those ways, but if must needs be, he will die with that gentler way of doing business. Not that Grant wants to die out, but that he has been true to his thinking about bicycles, among other things. As others have pointed out, a repainted LHT or the new Taiwanese made Bruce Gordon can offer a welded cost savings bike that will satisfy many. I prefer to save my $ up, sell other stuff, and have lugged steel bikes. 3 of them are Rivendells, and the 4th is another Japanese lugged machine. I love them all. :) From: eflayer eddie.fla...@att.net Just because you and many others here don't see it, doesn't mean it can't or won't happen. Think of all the discussion we could have then. $700 tigged, $1000 Sam, $2000 Roadeo, $2500 custom. I'd buy it before Kogswell, Suly, SomaFab, Rawland, VO, etc. And I bet many others would too. So not about me, just an idea. . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell?
On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 08:02 -0800, CycloFiend wrote: I think the inherent flaw is the idea of a gorgeous tig-welded bicycle frame. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that method of frame building, but they've never struck me as particularly good looking. I have a titanium Santana with welded joints that are almost indistinguishable from fillet brazing. Between those gorgeous welds and the high polish of the titanium, the bike looks better than chromed fillet brazed steel. But, that's definitely an exception, and I've never seen steel welding that looked like that. I've seen some welded steel bikes with beads that are so small and uniform as to be virtually invisible. The tubes simply look as though they've been placed together with no obvious visible reason for them to stay together. Whether a bike like that is gorgeous or not depends, I think, on the paint job. The welds do nothing to detract from it; nor do they dictate the design of the paint, the way lugs often do. A panel paint job can look quite nice on a welded bike, for example. Given the right accessories, so too can a single solid color; from a distance, with some colors, you couldn't notice lug detail or even the presence of lugs, so there's no difference between the visual impact of a lugged or a welded frame. I think many of the welded Tournesols look every bit as gorgeous as the lugged ones, for example. They tend to have fairly low key paint (black or taupe) and the fenders and other silver bits predominate. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell?
On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 08:35 -0800, eflayer wrote: Steve, well said. -- I am typing now in tiny tiny print...said very quietly in a whisper...Grant could do it best. In an equally small whisper, when it comes to TIG welded bikes and their design, based on the current track record I'll put my money on Steve Hampsten, unless we're talking heavy duty all-arounders and loaded touring bikes. But then, one of the wonderful things about these small makers is that they can have a distinct, even unique flavor. They don't have to be all things to all people -- any more than the makers of Laphroaig do. http://www.laphroaig.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell?
on 12/11/09 8:29 AM, Steve Palincsar at palin...@his.com wrote: On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 08:02 -0800, CycloFiend wrote: I think the inherent flaw is the idea of a gorgeous tig-welded bicycle frame. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that method of frame building, but they've never struck me as particularly good looking. I have a titanium Santana with welded joints that are almost indistinguishable from fillet brazing. Between those gorgeous welds and the high polish of the titanium, the bike looks better than chromed fillet brazed steel. But, that's definitely an exception, and I've never seen steel welding that looked like that. I've seen some welded steel bikes with beads that are so small and uniform as to be virtually invisible. The tubes simply look as though they've been placed together with no obvious visible reason for them to stay together. Whether a bike like that is gorgeous or not depends, I think, on the paint job. The welds do nothing to detract from it; nor do they dictate the design of the paint, the way lugs often do. A panel paint job can look quite nice on a welded bike, for example. Given the right accessories, so too can a single solid color; from a distance, with some colors, you couldn't notice lug detail or even the presence of lugs, so there's no difference between the visual impact of a lugged or a welded frame. I think many of the welded Tournesols look every bit as gorgeous as the lugged ones, for example. They tend to have fairly low key paint (black or taupe) and the fenders and other silver bits predominate. -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Send In Your Photos! - Here's how: http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines 'You both ride your bike?' He held his hands out and grabbed imaginary handlebars, grinning indulgently, eyeing Tom's helmet. Double disbeleif: not one, but two grown Americans riding bicycles. -- Neal Stephenson, Zodiac -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell?
on 12/11/09 8:29 AM, Steve Palincsar at palin...@his.com wrote: On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 08:02 -0800, CycloFiend wrote: I think the inherent flaw is the idea of a gorgeous tig-welded bicycle frame. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that method of frame building, but they've never struck me as particularly good looking. I have a titanium Santana with welded joints that are almost indistinguishable from fillet brazing. Between those gorgeous welds and the high polish of the titanium, the bike looks better than chromed fillet brazed steel. But, that's definitely an exception, and I've never seen steel welding that looked like that. The titanium Ibis frames were in that realm. I don't know if the different nature of ti welding processes lends itself to that, or the knowledge that there won't be paint covering the work. Or that they only let the uber-skilled TIG-welders play with the expensive tubesets. I've seen some welded steel bikes with beads that are so small and uniform as to be virtually invisible. The tubes simply look as though they've been placed together with no obvious visible reason for them to stay together. Whether a bike like that is gorgeous or not depends, I think, on the paint job. The welds do nothing to detract from it; nor do they dictate the design of the paint, the way lugs often do. A panel paint job can look quite nice on a welded bike, for example. Given the right accessories, so too can a single solid color; from a distance, with some colors, you couldn't notice lug detail or even the presence of lugs, so there's no difference between the visual impact of a lugged or a welded frame. I think many of the welded Tournesols look every bit as gorgeous as the lugged ones, for example. They tend to have fairly low key paint (black or taupe) and the fenders and other silver bits predominate. Those are all good counterpoint examples to my comment. For me, it's lugged or fillet-brazed, followed by TIG-welded. One of the things we all benefit from now is that the folks doing lugged work are all pretty accomplished. I do remember the last Interbike I attended some years ago, where a co-worker and I openly commented that if we had to look at another fat-tubed aluminum frame with toothpaste welds, we'd lose it. I'm not sure I ever recovered from that... ;^) - J -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Get your photos posted: http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines Maybe a bike, once discarded, pines away year after year for the first hand that steered it, and as it grows old it dreams, in its bike way, of the young roads. -- Robert McCammon, Boy's Life -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell?
On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 08:58 -0800, CycloFiend wrote: The titanium Ibis frames were in that realm. I don't know if the different nature of ti welding processes lends itself to that, or the knowledge that there won't be paint covering the work. Or that they only let the uber-skilled TIG-welders play with the expensive tubesets. I've seen some not so beautiful welded titanium, too. I'm certainly willing to believe that skill level plays a part in that; there's also a different technique that some don't believe in, multi-pass welding, I think it is, that was used to do the looks like fillet brazing welds. I happen to like that look. Those are all good counterpoint examples to my comment. For me, it's lugged or fillet-brazed, followed by TIG-welded. We don't disagree. One of the things we all benefit from now is that the folks doing lugged work are all pretty accomplished. Yes, many highly regarded production frames of the past are shockingly badly put together compared to the standard we expect today of lugged steel frames. The bar is set very high now. I do remember the last Interbike I attended some years ago, where a co-worker and I openly commented that if we had to look at another fat-tubed aluminum frame with toothpaste welds, we'd lose it. I'm not sure I ever recovered from that... ;^) Me, too. I can't bear the look of toothpaste welds. Butt ugly, stomach churing ugly, and no way to disguise it at all. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell?
On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 11:03 -0800, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote: Threaded stems and headsets are pretty much obsolete on new-production bikes, and the number of threaded stem/headset options is small and getting smaller. There are a few holdouts, like Riv and some custom shops, but I think even they see the writing on the wall (Legolas was threadless, and Roadeo apparently has a threadless option). More like catering to the tastes of the intended audience than seeing the handwriting on the wall. If it were the latter, wouldn't you expect the frames designed since the Legolas (such as the Hillborne, Foy, etc) to similarly acknowledge the presence of said handwriting? As individuals, we can deal with obsolete or obscure parts with ebay and other small sources. But a bike manufacturer, who needs to order hundreds or thousands of headsets per year has to consider the risks of not having enough headsets for this year, and for service in years to come. It appears that Velo Orange, far smaller than most bike manufacturers, had no difficulty sourcing high quality threaded headsets for the VO brand. I think fears of the availability of threaded headsets are greatly exaggerated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell?
There are still millions upon millions of bikes out there with threaded headsets, many of them owned by people of limited means who will need to fix them rather than buy a new bike. Ditto for bikes with freewheels. That's why it's still possible to buy freewheels in this age of cassettes … and why it will be possible for some time to find traditional threaded headsets. They just may not be Record or DuraAce quality. On Dec 11, 2009, at 11:19 AM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 11:03 -0800, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote: Threaded stems and headsets are pretty much obsolete on new- production bikes, and the number of threaded stem/headset options is small and getting smaller. There are a few holdouts, like Riv and some custom shops, but I think even they see the writing on the wall (Legolas was threadless, and Roadeo apparently has a threadless option). More like catering to the tastes of the intended audience than seeing the handwriting on the wall. If it were the latter, wouldn't you expect the frames designed since the Legolas (such as the Hillborne, Foy, etc) to similarly acknowledge the presence of said handwriting? As individuals, we can deal with obsolete or obscure parts with ebay and other small sources. But a bike manufacturer, who needs to order hundreds or thousands of headsets per year has to consider the risks of not having enough headsets for this year, and for service in years to come. It appears that Velo Orange, far smaller than most bike manufacturers, had no difficulty sourcing high quality threaded headsets for the VO brand. I think fears of the availability of threaded headsets are greatly exaggerated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners- bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell?
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 1:35 PM, eflayer eddie.fla...@att.net wrote: Headtubes on BLT and BLTaiwans are short... But it does look as if little old BG is sourcing his own upjutting Salsa (old) quill stems. Bet the BLTaiwans weigh a ton. Don't want a tank. Want an all around 700c. Let's call it a tigged Roadeo with Vbrakes, powder and a headbadge. You've seen Kogswells, right? http://kogswell.com/sitePRODUCTS.php I haven't been following Matthew much lately, i assume he's still selling them. Nicely made bikes with everything you mentioned other than a fancy headbadge. -- Bill Connell St. Paul, MN -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
RE: [RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell?
-Original Message- From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of eflayer Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:36 AM To: RBW Owners Bunch Subject: [RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell? Headtubes on BLT and BLTaiwans are short... They are standard length - not extra long for Aheadsets that require 3 of spacers. I use a Upsloping - 15 degree rise, Quill (1) stem so the bars are quite high - in addition the top tubes are upsloping. Bet the BLTaiwans weigh a ton. Don't want a tank. Want an all around 700c. How do you know that they weigh a Ton??? Let me know what size frame you ride and I will go weigh one and see if it is a Tank But they are in stock and on sale until December 24th. Regards, Bruce Gordon www.bgcycles.com brucegordoncycles.blogspot.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell?
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Bill Connell bconn...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 1:35 PM, eflayer eddie.fla...@att.net wrote: Headtubes on BLT and BLTaiwans are short... But it does look as if little old BG is sourcing his own upjutting Salsa (old) quill stems. Bet the BLTaiwans weigh a ton. Don't want a tank. Want an all around 700c. Let's call it a tigged Roadeo with Vbrakes, powder and a headbadge. You've seen Kogswells, right? http://kogswell.com/sitePRODUCTS.php I haven't been following Matthew much lately, i assume he's still selling them. Nicely made bikes with everything you mentioned other than a fancy headbadge. Actually: http://www.longleafbicycles.com/2009/11/650b-frameset-news-part-1-of-2/ Anthony at longleaf bikes has taken over the P/R from Matthew. -sv -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell?
On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 11:40 -0800, eflayer wrote: ps, street bike with rear rack brazeons so I can carry my lunch in stuff in a trunk bag, and put on bigger tires if I want to...but lightweight and lively...as you would say. I think you already own it, your Fuji touring. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell?
I guess my thought on this is why would RBW want to drop into the Surly/Soma price arena? GP has said many times he thinks Surly makes a great product. As far as a TIG'ed Roadeo equivalent goes, I think it would cannibalize Roadeo sales to some degree since it could be lighter and that is where the Roadeo is supposed to be competing. Difference in opinion on the reason to consider TIG, I guess... Regards, Doug On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 3:13 PM, eflayer eddie.fla...@att.net wrote: i'm all for supporting usa manufacturing, but the Sams look so great. i think Grant could do something along the Roadeo line with lightweight tigged tubes done in Taiwan, tall headtubes, threaded forks, and a new line of steel open face quills to fill the void Salsa left in the market and add some variety to the limited flat angle Nittos. I love Nittos, but sometimes I'd rather have rise at the extension rather than at the quill height. i even think well chosen powder coated colors with stickers on top could do the trick. On Dec 10, 2:05 pm, cm chrispmur...@hotmail.com wrote: I think a TIG'd Riv would be great-- and was mentioned a few times in the early days (if i remember correctly). To me, it is more about how the bike fits and rides then how it looks-- though how it looks is important too. If it isnt a direction they are interested in going, I can respect that. But it would be nice. How about a Musa TIG'd line? and I like Tiggua for a name too. Cheers! cm -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell?
On Thu, 2009-12-10 at 14:13 -0800, eflayer wrote: i'm all for supporting usa manufacturing, but the Sams look so great. i think Grant could do something along the Roadeo line with lightweight tigged tubes done in Taiwan, tall headtubes, threaded forks, and a new line of steel open face quills to fill the void Salsa left in the market and add some variety to the limited flat angle Nittos. I love Nittos, but sometimes I'd rather have rise at the extension rather than at the quill height. I believe Grant is firmly of the opinion that it is lugged or nothing, as far as he and Rivendell are concerned. I think you should write him direct with your suggestions, as he is the sole arbiter of the Rivendell style. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell?
This topic is raised too often. The search function applies to conceptual conversations, as well. Thanks, erik -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Would it be against the law - a tigged Rivendell?
on 12/10/09 1:52 PM, eflayer at eddie.fla...@att.net wrote: think about a bike that looks as great as an orange or green Sam, that rides great, looks great, and cost 30% less. Now, I thought that the Sam was a great riding, beautiful looking lugged bicycle frame that cost 50% of a Japanese/US-made lugged bicycle. It's funny, because a few years ago, there were a number of iBob threads which were talking about how, if Riv ever brought out a bicycle frame that was under a grand, that would be increadible and everyone would buy it. - Jim -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Send In Your Photos! - Here's how: http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines 'You both ride your bike?' He held his hands out and grabbed imaginary handlebars, grinning indulgently, eyeing Tom's helmet. Double disbeleif: not one, but two grown Americans riding bicycles. -- Neal Stephenson, Zodiac -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
