[RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form
Hi, I am presently describing an etching. The artist simply wrote « 61 » as year of production, under the image. Does it means I must record « 61 » in 264 $c, and then write up a note ? As much as I can tell, we're not allowed to use « 61 [i.e. 1961] » or « [19]61 ». What do you think ? Thank you! Marie-Chantal L'Ecuyer-Coelho Bibliothécaire Direction du traitement documentaire des collections patrimoniales Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec 2275, rue Holt Montréal (Québec) H2G 3H1 Téléphone : 514-873-1101 poste 3730 mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca mailto:mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca www.banq.qc.ca http://www.banq.qc.ca/ Avis de confidentialité Ce courriel est une communication confidentielle et l'information qu'il contient est réservée à l'usage exclusif du destinataire. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé, vous n'avez aucun droit d'utiliser cette information, de la copier, de la distribuer ou de la diffuser. Si cette communication vous a été transmise par erreur, veuillez la détruire et nous en aviser immédiatement par courriel.
Re: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form
Marie-Chantal posted:
I am presently describing an etching. The artist simply wrote 61 ...
264 0 $a]Place, Jurisdiction] :$bArtist's Name,$c[19]61.
This assumes the artist's name appears on the etching. If it is a
reproduction as apposed to the original etching, the 264 2nd indicator
would be 1.
While we are not allowed to supply missing letters or numbers in 245,
we can in 264 as I understand it.
Waiting for a note to see a correction is one of the greatest
weaknesses of RDa.
__ __ J. McRee (Mac) Elrod (m...@slc.bc.ca)
{__ | / Special Libraries Cataloguing HTTP://www.slc.bc.ca/
___} |__ \__
Re: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form
Hi!
Yes, I am dealing with the original intaglio.
Marie-Chantal L'Ecuyer-Coelho
Bibliothécaire
Direction du traitement documentaire des collections patrimoniales
Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec
2275, rue Holt
Montréal (Québec) H2G 3H1
Téléphone : 514-873-1101 poste 3730
mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca
www.banq.qc.ca
Avis de confidentialité Ce courriel est une communication confidentielle et
l'information qu'il contient est réservée à l'usage exclusif du destinataire.
Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé, vous n'avez aucun droit d'utiliser
cette information, de la copier, de la distribuer ou de la diffuser. Si cette
communication vous a été transmise par erreur, veuillez la détruire et nous en
aviser immédiatement par courriel.
-Message d'origine-
De : J. McRee Elrod [mailto:m...@slc.bc.ca]
Envoyé : 8 août 2013 13:26
À : =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=27=C9cuyer-Coelho_Marie-Chantal?=@kepler.riq.qc.ca;
L'Écuyer-Coelho Marie-Chantal
Cc : RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca
Objet : Re: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form
Marie-Chantal posted:
I am presently describing an etching. The artist simply wrote 61 ...
264 0 $a]Place, Jurisdiction] :$bArtist's Name,$c[19]61.
This assumes the artist's name appears on the etching. If it is a
reproduction as apposed to the original etching, the 264 2nd indicator
would be 1.
While we are not allowed to supply missing letters or numbers in 245,
we can in 264 as I understand it.
Waiting for a note to see a correction is one of the greatest
weaknesses of RDa.
__ __ J. McRee (Mac) Elrod (m...@slc.bc.ca)
{__ | / Special Libraries Cataloguing HTTP://www.slc.bc.ca/
___} |__ \__
Re: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form
Hi again! The problem is that we are send from 2.7.6 to 1.8, and then, from 1.8 to 1.7. So the same rules seem to apply to all « transcribed » elements (title, statement of responsibility, edition, production statement, etc ...). If characters are missing in a title, I must write up a note; therefore, the same is probably true for dates, yet, as Mr. Mac Elrod observes, correcting descriptive elements in a note is not always the most elegant solution... Marie-Chantal L'Ecuyer-Coelho Bibliothécaire Direction du traitement documentaire des collections patrimoniales Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec 2275, rue Holt Montréal (Québec) H2G 3H1 Téléphone : 514-873-1101 poste 3730 mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca www.banq.qc.ca
Re: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form
The date of production is not a transcribed element. 2.7.6.3 says to record the date of production and then refers to 2.7.1. In 2.7.1.4 it says Transcribe places of production and producers' names as they appear on the source of information but Record dates of production as they appear on the source of information. Supposedly there is a difference between transcribe and record, but what it is here is entirely muddy. -- John Hostage Senior Continuing Resources Cataloger // Harvard Library--Information and Technical Services // Langdell Hall 194 // Cambridge, MA 02138 host...@law.harvard.edumailto:host...@law.harvard.edu +(1)(617) 495-3974 (voice) +(1)(617) 496-4409 (fax) From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of L'Écuyer-Coelho Marie-Chantal Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 10:54 To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form Hi, I am presently describing an etching. The artist simply wrote « 61 » as year of production, under the image. Does it means I must record « 61 » in 264 $c, and then write up a note ? As much as I can tell, we're not allowed to use « 61 [i.e. 1961] » or « [19]61 ». What do you think ? Thank you! Marie-Chantal L'Ecuyer-Coelho Bibliothécaire Direction du traitement documentaire des collections patrimoniales Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec 2275, rue Holt Montréal (Québec) H2G 3H1 Téléphone : 514-873-1101 poste 3730 mc.coe...@banq.qc.camailto:mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca www.banq.qc.cahttp://www.banq.qc.ca/ Avis de confidentialité Ce courriel est une communication confidentielle et l'information qu'il contient est réservée à l'usage exclusif du destinataire. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé, vous n'avez aucun droit d'utiliser cette information, de la copier, de la distribuer ou de la diffuser. Si cette communication vous a été transmise par erreur, veuillez la détruire et nous en aviser immédiatement par courriel.
Re: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form
According to RDA 1.4, date of production, as well as date of publication, is a transcribed element. But if the date as it appears in the resource is not of the Gregorian or Julian calendar, we are allowed to supply the corresponding date or dates of the Gregorian or Julian calendar. Thanks, Joan Wang Illinois Heartland Library System On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 1:33 PM, John Hostage host...@law.harvard.eduwrote: The date of production is not a transcribed element. 2.7.6.3 says to “record the date of production” and then refers to 2.7.1. In 2.7.1.4 it says “Transcribe places of production and producers' names as they appear on the source of information” but “Record dates of production as they appear on the source of information.” Supposedly there is a difference between “transcribe” and “record,” but what it is here is entirely muddy.* *** ** ** -- John Hostage Senior Continuing Resources Cataloger // Harvard Library--Information and Technical Services // Langdell Hall 194 // Cambridge, MA 02138 host...@law.harvard.edu +(1)(617) 495-3974 (voice) +(1)(617) 496-4409 (fax) ** ** *From:* Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] *On Behalf Of *L'Écuyer-Coelho Marie-Chantal *Sent:* Thursday, August 08, 2013 10:54 *To:* RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA *Subject:* [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form ** ** Hi, ** ** I am presently describing an etching. The artist simply wrote « 61 » as year of production, under the image. Does it means I must record « 61 » in 264 $c, and then write up a note ? As much as I can tell, we’re not allowed to use « 61 [i.e. 1961] » or « [19]61 ». What do you think ? ** ** Thank you! ** ** *Marie-Chantal L'Ecuyer-Coelho* *Bibliothécaire *** Direction du traitement documentaire des collections patrimoniales Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec 2275, rue Holt Montréal (Québec) H2G 3H1 Téléphone : 514-873-1101 poste 3730 mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca www.banq.qc.ca *Avis de confidentialité *Ce courriel est une communication confidentielle et l’information qu’il contient est réservée à l’usage exclusif du destinataire. Si vous n’êtes pas le destinataire visé, vous n’avez aucun droit d’utiliser cette information, de la copier, de la distribuer ou de la diffuser. Si cette communication vous a été transmise par erreur, veuillez la détruire et nous en aviser immédiatement par courriel. ** ** -- Zhonghong (Joan) Wang, Ph.D. Cataloger -- CMC Illinois Heartland Library System (Edwardsville Office) 6725 Goshen Road Edwardsville, IL 62025 618.656.3216x409 618.656.9401Fax
Re: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form
And that's the paradox : it would have been easier to solve the problem had the artist not used the Gregorian calender :-) Marie-Chantal L'Ecuyer-Coelho Bibliothécaire Direction du traitement documentaire des collections patrimoniales Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec 2275, rue Holt Montréal (Québec) H2G 3H1 Téléphone : 514-873-1101 poste 3730 mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca mailto:mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca www.banq.qc.ca http://www.banq.qc.ca/ Avis de confidentialité Ce courriel est une communication confidentielle et l'information qu'il contient est réservée à l'usage exclusif du destinataire. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé, vous n'avez aucun droit d'utiliser cette information, de la copier, de la distribuer ou de la diffuser. Si cette communication vous a été transmise par erreur, veuillez la détruire et nous en aviser immédiatement par courriel. De : Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] De la part de Joan Wang Envoyé : 8 août 2013 14:44 À : RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca Objet : Re: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form According to RDA 1.4, date of production, as well as date of publication, is a transcribed element. But if the date as it appears in the resource is not of the Gregorian or Julian calendar, we are allowed to supply the corresponding date or dates of the Gregorian or Julian calendar. Thanks, Joan Wang Illinois Heartland Library System On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 1:33 PM, John Hostage host...@law.harvard.edu wrote: The date of production is not a transcribed element. 2.7.6.3 says to record the date of production and then refers to 2.7.1. In 2.7.1.4 it says Transcribe places of production and producers' names as they appear on the source of information but Record dates of production as they appear on the source of information. Supposedly there is a difference between transcribe and record, but what it is here is entirely muddy. -- John Hostage Senior Continuing Resources Cataloger // Harvard Library--Information and Technical Services // Langdell Hall 194 // Cambridge, MA 02138 host...@law.harvard.edu +(1)(617) 495-3974 tel:%2B%281%29%28617%29%20495-3974 (voice) +(1)(617) 496-4409 tel:%2B%281%29%28617%29%20496-4409 (fax) From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of L'Écuyer-Coelho Marie-Chantal Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 10:54 To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form Hi, I am presently describing an etching. The artist simply wrote « 61 » as year of production, under the image. Does it means I must record « 61 » in 264 $c, and then write up a note ? As much as I can tell, we're not allowed to use « 61 [i.e. 1961] » or « [19]61 ». What do you think ? Thank you! Marie-Chantal L'Ecuyer-Coelho Bibliothécaire Direction du traitement documentaire des collections patrimoniales Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec 2275, rue Holt Montréal (Québec) H2G 3H1 Téléphone : 514-873-1101 poste 3730 mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca mailto:mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca www.banq.qc.ca http://www.banq.qc.ca/ Avis de confidentialité Ce courriel est une communication confidentielle et l'information qu'il contient est réservée à l'usage exclusif du destinataire. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé, vous n'avez aucun droit d'utiliser cette information, de la copier, de la distribuer ou de la diffuser. Si cette communication vous a été transmise par erreur, veuillez la détruire et nous en aviser immédiatement par courriel. -- Zhonghong (Joan) Wang, Ph.D. Cataloger -- CMC Illinois Heartland Library System (Edwardsville Office) 6725 Goshen Road Edwardsville, IL 62025 618.656.3216x409 618.656.9401Fax
Re: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form
Since RDA does not address this situation specifically, you must apply the RDA principles to your decision. Under the principle of representation (put down what you see), if you believe that '61' is the date of production, then you must record it as it appears on the source of information. Here are the steps I used: -- 2.7.6 Date of Production 2.7.6.2 Sources of Information (SOI): Take dates of production from any source. 2.7.6.3 Recording Date of Production: Record the date of production by applying the basic instructions at 2.7.1. 2.7.1 Basic Instructions on Recording Production Statements 2.7.1.4 Recording Production Statements: Record dates of production as they appear on the source of information. Apply the general guidelines on transcription for words that are not numbers (see 1.7). Apply the general guidelines on numbers expressed as numerals or as words (see 1.8). 2.7.6.7 Archival Resources and Collections: If no date can be found in the resource or determined from any other source, estimate the nearest year, decade, century, or other interval as precisely as possible. Indicate that the information was taken from a source outside the resource itself (see 2.2.4). 2.2.4. Other Sources of Information: LC-PCC PS: LC practice/PCC practice: Use square brackets if information taken from a source outside a resource itself is supplied in any of the elements listed. --- Since the 2.7.6.2 SOI is Any, I would interpret that to would mean that if you could not find the date in the resource, but could determine it from any other source, you would enter it without square brackets. But if 61 is indeed the date of production, and is given on the resource that way, your only option, as far as I can see is to enter it as given. Is it given as 61 by any chance? If so, I would include that punctuation. Date of Production (264_0$c): 61 Note on Production (500$a): The date of production that is given on the resource as 61 is actually 1961. In MARC you would enter 1961 as the 008Date1, and in most OPACs that is the date that will display in lists. Once we are out of MARC we will be able to set up our displays more easily that we do now, and so could, if we choose, display a Note on Production right after the Production Statement. Personally, I rather like the idea of extending the optional addition allowed for dates not of the Gregorian or Julian calendars and for Chronograms, to incomplete dates (Date of Production: 61 [1961]). But if that is not in line with the RDA thinking on this, then I would suggest the following change to the last paragraph at 2.7.6.3, just to clarify matters: Change: If the date as it appears in the resource is known to be fictitious or incorrect, make a note giving the actual date (see 2.20.6.3). To: If the date as it appears in the resource is known to be fictitious, incorrect, or incomplete, make a note giving the actual date (see 2.20.6.3). Deborah - - - - - - - - Deborah Fritz TMQ, Inc. debo...@marcofquality.com www.marcofquality.com -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of L'Écuyer-Coelho Marie-Chantal Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 2:15 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form Hi! Yes, I am dealing with the original intaglio. Marie-Chantal L'Ecuyer-Coelho Bibliothécaire Direction du traitement documentaire des collections patrimoniales Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec 2275, rue Holt Montréal (Québec) H2G 3H1 Téléphone : 514-873-1101 poste 3730 mailto:mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca http://www.banq.qc.ca www.banq.qc.ca Avis de confidentialité Ce courriel est une communication confidentielle et l'information qu'il contient est réservée à l'usage exclusif du destinataire. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé, vous n'avez aucun droit d'utiliser cette information, de la copier, de la distribuer ou de la diffuser. Si cette communication vous a été transmise par erreur, veuillez la détruire et nous en aviser immédiatement par courriel. -Message d'origine- De : J. McRee Elrod [ mailto:m...@slc.bc.ca mailto:m...@slc.bc.ca] Envoyé : 8 août 2013 13:26 À : mailto:=?iso-8859-1?Q?L=27=C9cuyer-Coelho_Marie-Chantal?=@kepler.riq.qc.ca =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=27=C9cuyer-Coelho_Marie-Chantal?=@kepler.riq.qc.ca; L'Écuyer-Coelho Marie-Chantal Cc : mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca Objet : Re: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form Marie-Chantal posted: I am presently describing an etching. The artist simply wrote 61 ... 264 0 $a]Place, Jurisdiction] :$bArtist's Name,$c[19]61. This assumes the artist's name appears on the etching. If it is a reproduction as apposed to the original etching, the 264 2nd indicator would be 1
Re: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form
Thank you all for your help! I will follow Mrs Fritz recommendation. Also, I believe the proposed change to the last paragraph under 2.7.6.3 would be useful. When dealing with graphic materials and rare documents, one often finds incomplete dates ... Greetings! Marie-Chantal L'Ecuyer-Coelho Bibliothécaire Direction du traitement documentaire des collections patrimoniales Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec 2275, rue Holt Montréal (Québec) H2G 3H1 Téléphone : 514-873-1101 poste 3730 mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca mailto:mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca www.banq.qc.ca http://www.banq.qc.ca/ Avis de confidentialité Ce courriel est une communication confidentielle et l'information qu'il contient est réservée à l'usage exclusif du destinataire. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé, vous n'avez aucun droit d'utiliser cette information, de la copier, de la distribuer ou de la diffuser. Si cette communication vous a été transmise par erreur, veuillez la détruire et nous en aviser immédiatement par courriel. De : Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] De la part de Deborah Fritz Envoyé : 8 août 2013 14:56 À : RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca Objet : Re: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form Since RDA does not address this situation specifically, you must apply the RDA principles to your decision. Under the principle of representation (put down what you see), if you believe that '61' is the date of production, then you must record it as it appears on the source of information. Here are the steps I used: -- 2.7.6 Date of Production 2.7.6.2 Sources of Information (SOI): Take dates of production from any source. 2.7.6.3 Recording Date of Production: Record the date of production by applying the basic instructions at 2.7.1. 2.7.1 Basic Instructions on Recording Production Statements 2.7.1.4 Recording Production Statements: Record dates of production as they appear on the source of information. Apply the general guidelines on transcription for words that are not numbers (see 1.7). Apply the general guidelines on numbers expressed as numerals or as words (see 1.8). 2.7.6.7 Archival Resources and Collections: If no date can be found in the resource or determined from any other source, estimate the nearest year, decade, century, or other interval as precisely as possible. Indicate that the information was taken from a source outside the resource itself (see 2.2.4). 2.2.4. Other Sources of Information: LC-PCC PS: LC practice/PCC practice: Use square brackets if information taken from a source outside a resource itself is supplied in any of the elements listed. --- Since the 2.7.6.2 SOI is 'Any', I would interpret that to would mean that if you could not find the date in the resource, but could determine it from any other source, you would enter it without square brackets. But if '61' is indeed the date of production, and is given on the resource that way, your only option, as far as I can see is to enter it as given. Is it given as '61 by any chance? If so, I would include that punctuation. Date of Production (264_0$c): 61 Note on Production (500$a): The date of production that is given on the resource as 61 is actually 1961. In MARC you would enter '1961' as the 008Date1, and in most OPACs that is the date that will display in lists. Once we are out of MARC we will be able to set up our displays more easily that we do now, and so could, if we choose, display a 'Note on Production' right after the Production Statement. Personally, I rather like the idea of extending the optional addition allowed for dates not of the Gregorian or Julian calendars and for Chronograms, to incomplete dates (Date of Production: 61 [1961]). But if that is not in line with the RDA thinking on this, then I would suggest the following change to the last paragraph at 2.7.6.3, just to clarify matters: Change: If the date as it appears in the resource is known to be fictitious or incorrect, make a note giving the actual date (see 2.20.6.3). To: If the date as it appears in the resource is known to be fictitious, incorrect, or incomplete, make a note giving the actual date (see 2.20.6.3). Deborah - - - - - - - - Deborah Fritz TMQ, Inc. debo...@marcofquality.com www.marcofquality.com -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of L'Écuyer-Coelho Marie-Chantal Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 2:15 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form Hi! Yes, I am dealing with the original intaglio. Marie-Chantal L'Ecuyer-Coelho Bibliothécaire Direction du traitement documentaire des collections patrimoniales Bibliothèque et Archives
Re: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form
Marie-Chantal said:
The problem is that we are send from 2.7.6 to 1.8, and then, from 1.8
to 1.7. So the same rules seem to apply to all « transcribed »
elements (title, statement of responsibility, edition, production
statement, etc ...).
Unlike title, RDA does allow the providing in brackets of a missing
element in imprint or production statements, whether place,
jurisdiction, name, or date. I guess that is what record means as
opposed to transcribe. So why not a portion of an element, as in
264 1 $aVancouver [Washington]? If you would feel better, bracket
the whole year, as you would if supplying imprint year from copyright
statement.
There are cases when the entire title is supplied in brackets, so I
think RDA's not allowing a portion is silly. I assume the provision
is to facilitate use of harvested data? I wonder if we should have
some civil disobediance about that.
__ __ J. McRee (Mac) Elrod (m...@slc.bc.ca)
{__ | / Special Libraries Cataloguing HTTP://www.slc.bc.ca/
___} |__ \__
Re: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form
Marie-Chantal, I would give 1961, without using any square brackets. My reasoning goes as follows: You do not have to supply the date, because in fact you know the year. The only problem is that it is written on the source of information in some kind of shorthand. But when you think about it, this is no problem, because the date of production is, as has already been mentioned, not a transcribed element. So your are left with the basic rule that you are to record the date. O.k., then we'll record 1961, because that's what it is. Also note 1.8.4, which covers a similar case: In the example, the second year is only given with the last digits (72 instead of 1972). But we're advised to record the second year also in the ordinary way in which a year is given, i.e. as 1972. There is no need to use square brackets and write [19]72, as we're not transcribing, but only recording. Heidrun On 08.08.2013 16:54, L'Écuyer-Coelho Marie-Chantal wrote: Hi, I am presently describing an etching. The artist simply wrote « 61 » as year of production, under the image. Does it means I must record « 61 » in 264 $c, and then write up a note ? As much as I can tell, we're not allowed to use « 61 [i.e. 1961] » or « [19]61 ». What do you think ? Thank you! /*/Marie-Chantal L'Ecuyer-Coelho/*/ /*/Bibliothécaire /*//*//*/ Direction du traitement documentaire des collections patrimoniales Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec 2275, rue Holt Montréal (Québec) H2G 3H1 Téléphone : 514-873-1101 poste 3730 mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca mailto:mc.coe...@banq.qc.ca www.banq.qc.ca http://www.banq.qc.ca/ *Avis de confidentialité *Ce courriel est une communication confidentielle et l'information qu'il contient est réservée à l'usage exclusif du destinataire. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé, vous n'avez aucun droit d'utiliser cette information, de la copier, de la distribuer ou de la diffuser. Si cette communication vous a été transmise par erreur, veuillez la détruire et nous en aviser immédiatement par courriel. -- - Prof. Heidrun Wiesenmueller M.A. Stuttgart Media University Wolframstr. 32, 70191 Stuttgart, Germany www.hdm-stuttgart.de/bi
Re: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form
Mac said: It does not matter to me, or patrons I suspect, whether one uses $c[19]61. $c[1961] or $c1961. It *is* important that the whole year be there, since one should not have to wait for a note to know whether it is 1761, 1861, or 1961. A little pragmatism is in order here! To transcribe '61 as opposed to recording the whole year serves no purpose. Quite. That's why I voted for recording all four digits, i.e. 1961. Having looked at RDA again, I think the most relevant rule here is 1.8.2, where it says to record numerals in the form preferred by the agency. As per 1.8.1, this also applies to the date of production. The preference of our agencies is to record a year as an arabic numeral with four digits. So, in my opinion, changing 61 to 1961 here is similar to changing a date given in Roman numerals to the preferred form. We do not mark that either. But it would, of course, be possible to add a note saying Year given as 61 on the resource, just as you could write a note Year given in Roman numerals, if you think users would be interested in this information (personally, I don't think they would be). A resource which only has a copyright year falls in a different category, I believe. Because there, you do not have a year of publication at all. True, there is year, but it's a year for something else (the copyright), and from that you're deducing that the publication year is identical. So bracketing is in order here (although, in German cataloging, we do not use brackets in this case at all, and as far as I know, no user has ever complained about it). But in the case of the etching, I claim that the production year is actually there, only the artist didn't use the preferred form with the four digits. As I said, for me the case is not one of a supplied date. But I concede that a second interpetation is possible: You might feel that it's not obvious that 61 here is a shorthand form for 1961, and that you need some sort of deduction from other clues to decide that this is a work from the 20th century. Then you could argue that the year of production is not given in the resource, and that therefore you have to supply it. If this is way you want to go, I think it would be better to bracket the whole year. But I really think it would be cataloging overkill. Well, as Mac already said, in the end it doesn't matter so much whether the catalog record shows 1961, [1961] or [19]61, as long as all four digits are shown. Heidrun -- - Prof. Heidrun Wiesenmueller M.A. Stuttgart Media University Wolframstr. 32, 70191 Stuttgart, Germany www.hdm-stuttgart.de/bi
