Re: [RE-wrenches] Microfractures

[jerrysgarage01]

AndrewCorrect, its is all about time, temp cycles will all effect modules, 
arial IR testing generally  will not show new fractures.JerrySent from my 
Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: Andrew Truitt  Date: 
11/18/18  8:20 PM  (GMT-08:00) To: RE-wrenches 
 Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Microfractures 
Jerry - Thanks for the input!  No snail trails or burn marks at his point as 
the system has yet to be commissioned.  There will be an aerial IR inspection 
once we're operating and if anything shows up it'll be addressed for sure, but 
my understanding of microfractures is that the effects often don't show up for 
years (save for what can be seen with EL testing). Regards, Andrew Truitt 
www.dr.venturesd: 202.486.7507NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional ID: 
032407-66Colorado Journeyman Electrician License No.: 600132 The content of 
this email is confidential and intended for the recipient specified in message 
only. It is strictly forbidden to share any part of this message with any third 
party, without a written consent of the sender. If you received this message by 
mistake, please reply to this message and follow with its deletion, so that we 
can ensure such a mistake does not occur in the future.On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 
5:27 PM Jerry Shafer  wrote:Andrew, WrenchesWhile in 
Hawaii, l had modules that had fractures, some showed up in low performance, 
some did not and l don't recall there being a wobble on the high side. I would 
suggest inspecting what the modules look in question. Most of the time the 
cracks are visable and may look like worm tracks, they will be across the 
modules. Also look for what appears to be cigarette burns, this is trace arcing 
or at least overheating of the trace and they can appear at the interconnecting 
trace or main traces mostly at the change in direction of the trace. I have 
also had bad bypass diode connections have issues effecting performance 
curves.JerryNABCEP InspectorNABCEP InstallerOn Fri, Nov 16, 2018, 12:03 PM 
Andrew Truitt http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org


___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org


___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Microfractures

[Andrew Truitt]

Jerry - Thanks for the input!  No snail trails or burn marks at his point
as the system has yet to be commissioned.  There will be an aerial IR
inspection once we're operating and if anything shows up it'll be addressed
for sure, but my understanding of microfractures is that the effects often
don't show up for years (save for what can be seen with EL testing).



*Regards, *


*Andrew Truitt*

www.dr.ventures
d: 202.486.7507

NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional ID: 032407-66
Colorado Journeyman Electrician License No.: 600132

[image: Logo]



The content of this email is confidential and intended for the recipient
specified in message only. It is strictly forbidden to share any part of
this message with any third party, without a written consent of the sender.
If you received this message by mistake, please reply to this message and
follow with its deletion, so that we can ensure such a mistake does not
occur in the future.



On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 5:27 PM Jerry Shafer 
wrote:

> Andrew, Wrenches
> While in Hawaii, l had modules that had fractures, some showed up in low
> performance, some did not and l don't recall there being a wobble on the
> high side. I would suggest inspecting what the modules look in question.
> Most of the time the cracks are visable and may look like worm tracks, they
> will be across the modules. Also look for what appears to be cigarette
> burns, this is trace arcing or at least overheating of the trace and they
> can appear at the interconnecting trace or main traces mostly at the change
> in direction of the trace. I have also had bad bypass diode connections
> have issues effecting performance curves.
> Jerry
> NABCEP Inspector
> NABCEP Installer
>
> On Fri, Nov 16, 2018, 12:03 PM Andrew Truitt 
>>
>>
>> Wrenches - Does anyone have experience getting electroluminescence (EL)
>> test results from module manufacturers?  I just shot some module IV curves
>> as part of an acceptance test and they all show some irregularities on the
>> vertical slope that Solmetric says are indicative of microfractures:
>>
>> [image: image.png]
>>
>>
>> It seems the optimal course of action here is to perform EL testing on a
>> random sample of mods in the field and compare with images from the factory
>> to hone in on the root cause.  However field EL testing is not cheap and
>> even if we do determine that the damage occured after modules left the
>> factory, how could it be proven if its the shipper or the EPC at fault?  I
>> foresee everyone pushing back and invoking the performance warranty as the
>> backstop if issues pop up in the future (assuming nothing shows up during
>> performance testing next month), but the last thing we want deal with is a
>> massive (or worse, piecemeal) warranty claim in 5 years.  Or the array may
>> mildly underperform year over year, not enough to trigger warranties but
>> still costing thousands in lost revenue.  The system is a 200kW ground
>> mount in CO using tier 1 (top 5) Chinese modules.  Anyone dealt with this
>> type of situation before?
>>
>>
>>
>> *Regards, *
>>
>>
>> *Andrew Truitt*
>>
>> www.dr.ventures
>> d: 202.486.7507
>>
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional ID: 032407-66
>> Colorado Journeyman Electrician License No.: 600132
>>
>> [image: Logo]
>>
>>
>>
>> The content of this email is confidential and intended for the recipient
>> specified in message only. It is strictly forbidden to share any part of
>> this message with any third party, without a written consent of the sender.
>> If you received this message by mistake, please reply to this message and
>> follow with its deletion, so that we can ensure such a mistake does not
>> occur in the future.
>>
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 

Re: [RE-wrenches] mate 3s locking

[Jay]

Does Schneider have videos of how to operate the SCP etc?

Jay
Peltz power. 

> On Nov 18, 2018, at 7:41 AM, Howie Michaelson  
> wrote:
> 
> Drake,
> It took me years to try Trace/Xantrex/Schneider products after swearing off 
> Xantrex in 2004, becoming an Outback devotee for a decade. I finally soured 
> on Outback a few years ago after several years of poor customer service and a 
> sense that Outback was not keeping up in general. I had tried Magnum early on 
> and had a bad experience with them and the Sunny Island, while a robust 
> machine, was definitely getting outdated, so I finally decided to give 
> Schneider a try.
> While there are always things I wish could be better in all the various 
> choices (which is true for the XW as well), I've stuck with Schneider for a 
> few years now and have been happy with them. I did try the SWa couple of 
> times, but the small cost savings doesn't feel worth the lesser capabilities 
> over the XW. And their customer service has been pretty consistently good.
> Howie Michaelson
> Sun Catcher
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Nov 17, 2018, 10:43 AM > It seems like Outback has too many problems now, with the Mate 3 and the 
>> discontinuation of the original, excellent FX inverters. I had a Mate 3 
>> loose its programming on an AC coupled system so that the batteries had no 
>> protective relay until the Mate 3 was reprogrammed. Tech support said that 
>> this happens with the Mate 3. That is unacceptable. Fortunately it was a 
>> dual FX system, and I had the original Mate to put back on it. 
>> 
>> How do the Xantrex / Schneider products compare regarding reliability and 
>> user friendliness?  Are there any downsides to using this equipment. I'm 
>> considering going full circle back to this line. 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Drake 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "RE-wrenches" 
>> To:, "RE-wrenches" 
>> 
>> Cc:
>> Sent:Fri, 16 Nov 2018 19:39:26 -0800
>> Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] mate 3s locking
>> 
>> 
>> Hi william
>> 
>> Very tech fix with the relay!
>> 
>> Fortunately or unfortunately there is no reliable web at the location but 
>> someone who manually checks things. 
>> 
>> Yes the 3s still has some of the same problems 
>> 
>> Thx
>> Jay
>> Peltz power. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 16, 2018, at 2:14 PM, William Miller  wrote:
>> 
>> Jay:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I have problems with all of my Mate3 and 3s controllers locking up.  So much 
>> so that I have implemented the following steps:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 1. For most installations I leave the hub wire cover off and label the 
>> Mate lead.  Clients are instructed to unplug and re-plug the Cat5 lead 
>> whenever the Mate locks up.
>> 
>> 2. On one installation I have a Control By Web unit ping both Mate3 
>> units every 5 minutes.  If either fails to respond after 3 attempts, a relay 
>> opens and closes the Orange/white leads which power cycles the Mates. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Locking up of Mates is a fact of life with Outback equipment.  I love the 
>> equipment and I hate the equipment.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> William
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> Lic 773985
>> millersolar.com
>> 805-438-5600
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Lones Tuss
>> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 12:42 PM
>> To: RE-wrenches
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] mate 3s locking
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Hello All
>> 
>> And
>> 
>> Hello Jay
>> 
>> I just asked the tech support boss on this as I had no idea.
>> 
>> He has a test setup that allows him to switch individuals lines on the cat5 
>> cables.
>> 
>> We can duplicate Jay’s  screen shot below by opening the some of the lines 
>> to the cat 5 cable.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> So as a start try replacing the cat5 between the Mate3S and the Hub.
>> 
>> Using the silicone grease that comes with a Mate is never a bad idea.
>> 
>> If your customer does not have a cable on hand I would try removing the 
>> cable several times perhaps that could help to dislodge any corrosion or 
>> dust on the connections.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I hope this helps.
>> 
>> Take Care All
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> 
>> From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
>> jay
>> 
>> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 8:05 AM
>> 
>> To: RE-wrenches 
>> 
>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] mate 3s locking
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> ** [EXTERNAL EMAIL] - Please report any suspicious attachments, links, or 
>> requests for sensitive information to the Help Desk. ** 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> HI All,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I’m wondering if anyone else is having mate 3s locking up problems?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I’ve got 2 systems that have had this happen.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> One is a big system ( 2 radians and 5 CC).  Of course its a long ways away 
>> and no there isn’t internet so no OpticsRE.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Its been reprogramed with latest REV firmware.  No change.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> thx
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> jay
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> peltz power
>> 
>> 

Re: [RE-wrenches] mate 3s locking

[Howie Michaelson]

Drake,
It took me years to try Trace/Xantrex/Schneider products after swearing off
Xantrex in 2004, becoming an Outback devotee for a decade. I finally soured
on Outback a few years ago after several years of poor customer service and
a sense that Outback was not keeping up in general. I had tried Magnum
early on and had a bad experience with them and the Sunny Island, while a
robust machine, was definitely getting outdated, so I finally decided to
give Schneider a try.
While there are always things I wish could be better in all the various
choices (which is true for the XW as well), I've stuck with Schneider for a
few years now and have been happy with them. I did try the SWa couple of
times, but the small cost savings doesn't feel worth the lesser
capabilities over the XW. And their customer service has been pretty
consistently good.
Howie Michaelson
Sun Catcher


On Sat, Nov 17, 2018, 10:43 AM  It seems like Outback has too many problems now, with the Mate 3 and the
> discontinuation of the original, excellent FX inverters. I had a Mate 3
> loose its programming on an AC coupled system so that the batteries had no
> protective relay until the Mate 3 was reprogrammed. Tech support said that
> this happens with the Mate 3. That is unacceptable. Fortunately it was a
> dual FX system, and I had the original Mate to put back on it.
>
> How do the Xantrex / Schneider products compare regarding reliability and
> user friendliness?  Are there any downsides to using this equipment. I'm
> considering going full circle back to this line.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Drake
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From:
> "RE-wrenches" 
>
> To:
> , "RE-wrenches" <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Cc:
>
> Sent:
> Fri, 16 Nov 2018 19:39:26 -0800
> Subject:
> Re: [RE-wrenches] mate 3s locking
>
>
> Hi william
>
> Very tech fix with the relay!
>
> Fortunately or unfortunately there is no reliable web at the location but
> someone who manually checks things.
>
> Yes the 3s still has some of the same problems
>
> Thx
> Jay
> Peltz power.
>
>
>
> On Nov 16, 2018, at 2:14 PM, William Miller 
> wrote:
>
> Jay:
>
>
>
> I have problems with all of my Mate3 and 3s controllers locking up.  So
> much so that I have implemented the following steps:
>
>
>
> 1. For most installations I leave the hub wire cover off and label
> the Mate lead.  Clients are instructed to unplug and re-plug the Cat5 lead
> whenever the Mate locks up.
>
> 2. On one installation I have a Control By Web unit ping both Mate3
> units every 5 minutes.  If either fails to respond after 3 attempts, a
> relay opens and closes the Orange/white leads which power cycles the
> Mates.
>
>
>
> Locking up of Mates is a fact of life with Outback equipment.  I love the
> equipment and I hate the equipment.
>
>
>
> William
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> Lic 773985
> millersolar.com 
> 805-438-5600
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Lones Tuss
> *Sent:* Friday, November 16, 2018 12:42 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] mate 3s locking
>
>
>
> Hello All
>
> And
>
> Hello Jay
>
> I just asked the tech support boss on this as I had no idea.
>
> He has a test setup that allows him to switch individuals lines on the
> cat5 cables.
>
> We can duplicate Jay’s  screen shot below by opening the some of the lines
> to the cat 5 cable.
>
> 
>
>
>
> So as a start try replacing the cat5 between the Mate3S and the Hub.
>
> Using the silicone grease that comes with a Mate is never a bad idea.
>
> If your customer does not have a cable on hand I would try removing the
> cable several times perhaps that could help to dislodge any corrosion or
> dust on the connections.
>
>
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Take Care All
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf
> Of jay
>
> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 8:05 AM
>
> To: RE-wrenches 
>
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] mate 3s locking
>
>
>
> ** [EXTERNAL EMAIL] - Please report any suspicious attachments, links, or
> requests for sensitive information to the Help Desk. **
> 
>
>
>
> HI All,
>
>
>
> I’m wondering if anyone else is having mate 3s locking up problems?
>
>
>
> I’ve got 2 systems that have had this happen.
>
>
>
> One is a big system ( 2 radians and 5 CC).  Of course its a long ways away
> and no there isn’t internet so no OpticsRE.
>
>
>
> Its been reprogramed with latest REV firmware.  No change.
>
>
>
> thx
>
>
>
> jay
>
>
>
> peltz power
>
> ___
>
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
>
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
>
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
>
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
>
>
> List rules & etiquette:
>
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
>
>
> Check