RE: [Repeater-Builder]Zetron 45B
Good afternoon I am looking for the users manual/service manual for the Zetron 45B interconnect . Anyone have one they wish to sell or lead me to a source to get one. I inherited a site that has one but no documentation was found with it thanks EdVA6EF OLCN
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 900 MHz WISP on repeater tower?
Laryn Lohman wrote: An ISP installed some Motorola Canopy equipment with the antennas about 20 ft. horizontally from our 2M receive antenna. The noise floor went up at least 10db. In this case, I had the option of moving our antenna so it is now about 80 ft. horizontally away. No noise at all from their equipment now. I believe that the bulk of the noise is digital processing junk, not related to their transmitter(s). (But could easily be proven wrong on that one...) It's pretty broadband in the VHF region, but I have not heard any problem at all with a 70cm receiver using an antenna in the same position that the 2M antenna was mounted. Laryn K8TVZ Right. The Canopy that I have seen uses unshielded satin cable to the antennas. Not even Cat5. And what's on those cables is essentially 10-baseT data and power for the actual transceiver, I believe. It would be VERY dirty in any case.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE Master II Pa decks
With regard to the Intermittent Duty 50 watt Stations, what is the lowest these will tune down to without excessive spurs? I have a Mastr2 VHF station we're looking at placing in our command trailer for temporary operations - AC power most of the time, but would like to have it draw as little power as possible (within reason) for times when working on battery power only. 250 mw off the exciter just isn't enough, 65 watts out of the P/A is just too much. 73s, AJ, K6LOR/R 147.080+ 444.750+ On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com wrote: An isolator with appropriate harmonic filtering AFTER it (they create harmonics, which are not friendly to your neighbors), presents a nice solid non-reactive 50 ohm load to the transmitter. It doesn't matter if it's a GE MASTR II PA, or someone elses. Many Motorola PA's have the isolator built in, for example. The GE PA likes a 50 ohm load or it tends to do squirrelly things, like die. You can get this by proper choice of QUALITY products for your filtering/feedline/antenna system, or you can use an isolator, or you can have the belt and suspenders mentality and always run an isolator on the output of the PA. Another good reason to do this at high RF commercial sites is that the PA (depending on how you may have modified it) has transistors in the final section that are always on, thus... mixing can occur in the PA if RF from the outside world can get down INTO the PA from elsewhere. Also not a nice thing for your neighbors. The final benefit to a properly sized dummy load on your isolator is that the antenna can literally fall off the tower, and the PA will still be driving into a solid 50 ohm dummy load. As long as that load is the correct size for your PA's power level, no damage to the PA will occur, even though your antenna is gone. Some late-model MASTR II PA's have built in Z-matchers on their output Low-Pass Filter board on the right lower side. These have to be adjusted correctly per the manual any time a new PA is installed on a new antenna system, or anything changes in the antenna system. Older PA's do not have this feature, but an off-board Z-matcher can be added in lieu of an isolator if all you're concerned about is matching the source (PA) to the load (antenna system). The GE PA comes in different sizes for different power level needs. The VHF 100W (original with four final driver transistors) was known to get spurious and throw stuff up and down the band for various reasons. The newer three-final-transistor PA's (the most commonly seen) are less prone to do this, but can also become RF noisemakers if turned down too much. No MASTR II tech I know of will recommend turning any MASTR II PA any further down than roughly 2/3's its maximum rated power output, ESPECIALLY not without looking at it on a spectrum analyzer to make sure it's not spurring. When they go spurious, which is rare enough people get away with turning the PA's down more than 2/3's, they also typically overheat drastically and they'll destroy themselves relatively quickly. If you need less power than 50W it's highly recommended to remove stages of the PA to get to the lower power level you need, bypassing them completely, or moving to a lower power/lower-duty-cycle PA in the model line. Done right, even after 20 years of commercial service, the VHF MASTR II PA will happily sit there and put out 85W all day long, without batting an eyelash. Many will still do a strong 110W and never care, either. It's just a little easier on the gear to run the power back just a little bit. The difference (in dB) between 85W and 110W often isn't significant, depending on your area you're wanting to cover. Why are you wanting to turn your MASTR II back so far? After duplexer losses, you're down to roughly 20W if you're putting 45W into a duplexer (if you're running split antenna, with no duplexer and vertical separation, nevermind -- but I doubt you are), and 20W doesn't balance well with 50W mobiles. If you're trying to balance for HT coverage only, I could see it maybe... My personal rule for the MASTR II PA's is: Set 'em to 85W and forget 'em. Put an isolator on for ALL of the good reasons for an isolator, filter it properly, and forget about it. The vast majority of them will run for 10 or more years without touching them again after doing that. Look carefully at the Repeater-Builder company specifications -- you may be looking at a MASTR II *MOBILE* rig converted into a repeater. That's NOT a MASTR II Repeater PA. They're de-rating the PA to save it from overheating and dying, as it's not rated for 100% continuous duty at full power in the mobile rig with the small heatsink. The MASTR II REPEATER PA is a giant heavy thing with plenty of heatsink fins, 19 wide and multiple RU tall, that is EIA rated to do continuous-duty cycle at 110W for at least 24 hours. Nate WY0X -Original Message- From:
RE: [Repeater-Builder] GE Master II Pa decks
AJ, You asked what is the lowest power level for the Mastr2 radio. I had taken a 250 Watt base and turned it down to 10 Watts out for testing purposes with out generating any spurs. However, If I remember to documents say to not run the poweer any lower than 50% of rated power out. Remember, you can use only the driver if you need low power out. Charles Miller _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AJ Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 10:04 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE Master II Pa decks With regard to the Intermittent Duty 50 watt Stations, what is the lowest these will tune down to without excessive spurs? I have a Mastr2 VHF station we're looking at placing in our command trailer for temporary operations - AC power most of the time, but would like to have it draw as little power as possible (within reason) for times when working on battery power only. 250 mw off the exciter just isn't enough, 65 watts out of the P/A is just too much. 73s, AJ, K6LOR/R 147.080+ 444.750+ On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com wrote: An isolator with appropriate harmonic filtering AFTER it (they create harmonics, which are not friendly to your neighbors), presents a nice solid non-reactive 50 ohm load to the transmitter. It doesn't matter if it's a GE MASTR II PA, or someone elses. Many Motorola PA's have the isolator built in, for example. The GE PA likes a 50 ohm load or it tends to do squirrelly things, like die. You can get this by proper choice of QUALITY products for your filtering/feedline/antenna system, or you can use an isolator, or you can have the belt and suspenders mentality and always run an isolator on the output of the PA. Another good reason to do this at high RF commercial sites is that the PA (depending on how you may have modified it) has transistors in the final section that are always on, thus... mixing can occur in the PA if RF from the outside world can get down INTO the PA from elsewhere. Also not a nice thing for your neighbors. The final benefit to a properly sized dummy load on your isolator is that the antenna can literally fall off the tower, and the PA will still be driving into a solid 50 ohm dummy load. As long as that load is the correct size for your PA's power level, no damage to the PA will occur, even though your antenna is gone. Some late-model MASTR II PA's have built in Z-matchers on their output Low-Pass Filter board on the right lower side. These have to be adjusted correctly per the manual any time a new PA is installed on a new antenna system, or anything changes in the antenna system. Older PA's do not have this feature, but an off-board Z-matcher can be added in lieu of an isolator if all you're concerned about is matching the source (PA) to the load (antenna system). The GE PA comes in different sizes for different power level needs. The VHF 100W (original with four final driver transistors) was known to get spurious and throw stuff up and down the band for various reasons. The newer three-final-transistor PA's (the most commonly seen) are less prone to do this, but can also become RF noisemakers if turned down too much. No MASTR II tech I know of will recommend turning any MASTR II PA any further down than roughly 2/3's its maximum rated power output, ESPECIALLY not without looking at it on a spectrum analyzer to make sure it's not spurring. When they go spurious, which is rare enough people get away with turning the PA's down more than 2/3's, they also typically overheat drastically and they'll destroy themselves relatively quickly. If you need less power than 50W it's highly recommended to remove stages of the PA to get to the lower power level you need, bypassing them completely, or moving to a lower power/lower-duty-cycle PA in the model line. Done right, even after 20 years of commercial service, the VHF MASTR II PA will happily sit there and put out 85W all day long, without batting an eyelash. Many will still do a strong 110W and never care, either. It's just a little easier on the gear to run the power back just a little bit. The difference (in dB) between 85W and 110W often isn't significant, depending on your area you're wanting to cover. Why are you wanting to turn your MASTR II back so far? After duplexer losses, you're down to roughly 20W if you're putting 45W into a duplexer (if you're running split antenna, with no duplexer and vertical separation, nevermind -- but I doubt you are), and 20W doesn't balance well with 50W mobiles. If you're trying to balance for HT coverage only, I could see it maybe... My personal rule for the MASTR II PA's is: Set 'em to 85W and forget 'em. Put an isolator on for ALL of the good reasons for an isolator, filter it properly, and forget about it. The vast majority of them will run for 10 or more years without touching them again after doing that. Look carefully
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 900 MHz WISP on repeater tower?
I had the same thing when they installed their antennas immediately adjacent to one of our 460 MHz repeaters. Swapping the TX/RX solved the problem. I suspect that one was transmitter related. Joe M. wd8chl wrote: Laryn Lohman wrote: An ISP installed some Motorola Canopy equipment with the antennas about 20 ft. horizontally from our 2M receive antenna. The noise floor went up at least 10db. In this case, I had the option of moving our antenna so it is now about 80 ft. horizontally away. No noise at all from their equipment now. I believe that the bulk of the noise is digital processing junk, not related to their transmitter(s). (But could easily be proven wrong on that one...) It's pretty broadband in the VHF region, but I have not heard any problem at all with a 70cm receiver using an antenna in the same position that the 2M antenna was mounted. Laryn K8TVZ Right. The Canopy that I have seen uses unshielded satin cable to the antennas. Not even Cat5. And what's on those cables is essentially 10-baseT data and power for the actual transceiver, I believe. It would be VERY dirty in any case. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE Master II Pa decks
Charles: Any idea what your current draw was when you had it tuned down to 10 watts? I've been doing the alignment directly off of the exciter (250 mw off of the RCA jack on the drawer) but the power output doesn't match the needs of the mobile usage. Thanks! 73s, AJ, K6LOR On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 9:22 AM, Ham-Radio ham-ra...@cap-comm.com wrote: AJ, You asked what is the lowest power level for the Mastr2 radio. I had taken a 250 Watt base and turned it down to 10 Watts out for testing purposes with out generating any spurs. However, If I remember to documents say to not run the poweer any lower than 50% of rated power out. Remember, you can use only the driver if you need low power out. Charles Miller -- *From:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto: repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *AJ *Sent:* Tuesday, February 03, 2009 10:04 AM *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE Master II Pa decks With regard to the Intermittent Duty 50 watt Stations, what is the lowest these will tune down to without excessive spurs? I have a Mastr2 VHF station we're looking at placing in our command trailer for temporary operations - AC power most of the time, but would like to have it draw as little power as possible (within reason) for times when working on battery power only. 250 mw off the exciter just isn't enough, 65 watts out of the P/A is just too much. 73s, AJ, K6LOR/R 147.080+ 444.750+ On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com wrote: An isolator with appropriate harmonic filtering AFTER it (they create harmonics, which are not friendly to your neighbors), presents a nice solid non-reactive 50 ohm load to the transmitter. It doesn't matter if it's a GE MASTR II PA, or someone elses. Many Motorola PA's have the isolator built in, for example. The GE PA likes a 50 ohm load or it tends to do squirrelly things, like die. You can get this by proper choice of QUALITY products for your filtering/feedline/antenna system, or you can use an isolator, or you can have the belt and suspenders mentality and always run an isolator on the output of the PA. Another good reason to do this at high RF commercial sites is that the PA (depending on how you may have modified it) has transistors in the final section that are always on, thus... mixing can occur in the PA if RF from the outside world can get down INTO the PA from elsewhere. Also not a nice thing for your neighbors. The final benefit to a properly sized dummy load on your isolator is that the antenna can literally fall off the tower, and the PA will still be driving into a solid 50 ohm dummy load. As long as that load is the correct size for your PA's power level, no damage to the PA will occur, even though your antenna is gone. Some late-model MASTR II PA's have built in Z-matchers on their output Low-Pass Filter board on the right lower side. These have to be adjusted correctly per the manual any time a new PA is installed on a new antenna system, or anything changes in the antenna system. Older PA's do not have this feature, but an off-board Z-matcher can be added in lieu of an isolator if all you're concerned about is matching the source (PA) to the load (antenna system). The GE PA comes in different sizes for different power level needs. The VHF 100W (original with four final driver transistors) was known to get spurious and throw stuff up and down the band for various reasons. The newer three-final-transistor PA's (the most commonly seen) are less prone to do this, but can also become RF noisemakers if turned down too much. No MASTR II tech I know of will recommend turning any MASTR II PA any further down than roughly 2/3's its maximum rated power output, ESPECIALLY not without looking at it on a spectrum analyzer to make sure it's not spurring. When they go spurious, which is rare enough people get away with turning the PA's down more than 2/3's, they also typically overheat drastically and they'll destroy themselves relatively quickly. If you need less power than 50W it's highly recommended to remove stages of the PA to get to the lower power level you need, bypassing them completely, or moving to a lower power/lower-duty-cycle PA in the model line. Done right, even after 20 years of commercial service, the VHF MASTR II PA will happily sit there and put out 85W all day long, without batting an eyelash. Many will still do a strong 110W and never care, either. It's just a little easier on the gear to run the power back just a little bit. The difference (in dB) between 85W and 110W often isn't significant, depending on your area you're wanting to cover. Why are you wanting to turn your MASTR II back so far? After duplexer losses, you're down to roughly 20W if you're putting 45W into a duplexer (if you're running split antenna, with no duplexer and vertical
[Repeater-Builder] duplexer
hi all, I have a Phelps Dodge RFS/Celwave) 522-509 old UHF 6 cavity duplexer. Each cavity has one tuning rod only. Does anyone know what type of duplexer, bpbr, bp, br, etc this critter is. I am trying to tune. 73, ron, n9ee/r
[Repeater-Builder] OT: WTB - Icom IC-22U
I'm looking for an Icom IC-22U for use at a repeater site as a remote base. Physical condition is not particularly important. I would prefer a working unit, but may consider one in repairable condition, depending on the fault. 73, Mike WM4B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] duplexer
If I remember right, it's four notches and two passes. The normal configuration was one pass and one notch on the Rx leg, and two pass and two notch on the Tx leg. --- Jeff WN3A -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 12:29 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] duplexer hi all, I have a Phelps Dodge RFS/Celwave) 522-509 old UHF 6 cavity duplexer. Each cavity has one tuning rod only. Does anyone know what type of duplexer, bpbr, bp, br, etc this critter is. I am trying to tune. 73, ron, n9ee/r No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.12/1911 - Release Date: 2/2/2009 7:21 PM
Re: [Repeater-Builder] duplexer
FROM THE LOOKS OF SIMILAR PHELPS DODGE MODELS, BAND REJECT ONLY. DAVID N1ROA From: Ron Wright mcc...@verizon.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 3, 2009 12:29:14 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] duplexer hi all, I have a Phelps Dodge RFS/Celwave) 522-509 old UHF 6 cavity duplexer. Each cavity has one tuning rod only. Does anyone know what type of duplexer, bpbr, bp, br, etc this critter is. I am trying to tune. 73, ron, n9ee/r
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: WTB - Icom IC-22U
Mike, I have one, and possibly the Xtal pair you'll need, about 10 watts output in the high posiition. $25.00 shipped, No mic. ...$30.00 with mic. Lee, K4LJP 73 On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Mike (WM4B) Besemer mwbese...@cox.netwrote: I'm looking for an Icom IC-22U for use at a repeater site as a remote base. Physical condition is not particularly important. I would prefer a working unit, but may consider one in repairable condition, depending on the fault. 73, Mike WM4B -- Smart pills are placebos, you can't fix stupid.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Are you ready for narrowbanding?
Horse Hockey. To meet the new emission masks, the deviation on most older transmitters would have to be below 2 kHz. And a hi-stab oscillator installed. And then it STILL wouldn't be type certificated for narrowband operation. As to the time required for a commercial shop to do the work, you're looking at several hundred $$. You have completely forgotten the travel time to/from the site. And no more than a 30/30 warranty [30 feet or 30 seconds]. Trying to re-vamp an older radio in a commercial/public safety operation is false economy. WalterH --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, n...@... wrote: At 2/2/2009 13:33, you wrote: n...@... wrote: At 1/16/2009 13:38, you wrote: I absolutely do. There's a TON of non-narrowbandable equipment in use, and we're not just talking about Micor/MastrII vintage equipment. Maxtacs, MSF's, even early Quantars and MastrIII's. Pretty much anything made before, I think, 1996-ish. Why would Micors Mastr IIs be non-narrowbandable? http://www.com-spec.com/narrow.htm Bob NO6B 1) There is a good likelihood that the mod will break type- acceptance. No mod. to the TX, other than simply turning the deviation down. 2) Even if it doesn't, the cost to, say a Fire Dept or business to pay a shop to do the conversion is not worth it when you consider the age of the equipment. A good tech. should be able to do the job in an hour, plus maybe another hour for removal/reinstallation. Still cheaper than installing a brand new radio. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola Maxar mods for 6M?
Dennis Ashworth wrote: I have a Motorola Maxar, plate number D31TRA2300AK I scanned through the Repeater builder site and didn't find many hits on the model. I want to put this on 6M - any experience on how difficult it would be to insert a 6M crystal set/realign? Any thoughts or referrals would be most appreciated Tnx Dennis, K7FL Battle Ground, WA I have a Maxar-80 on 6M now, and it covers 52.525 and the big local repeater just fine (no more than 400 KHz spread however). When I got it, it had already been setup on 6, so I don't know what if any modes may have been done, but I can't believe there was much done. I can see how it might not work as well on 53 MHz freqs, but below should be fine. For what you want to do, I suspect it will be much lower in band, and less of a problem. Also you more likely want a xtal controlled radio for quicker key-up/key-down times. Some synth radios are a little slow, or a little noisy in the first few mS.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Kenwood tk-190 on 6 meters
skipp025 wrote: The Kenwood TK-190 portable does go into the ham bands... the only major fly in the soup is the tk-190 radio wants to be programmed and operate within a relatively narrow range/band of frequencies (say up to a few MHz max frequency separation between high and low end channels, else it protests. You can jam the frequencies into the radio and it works.. but I suspect the receive sens will at one point suffer (drop off or go away) if you try to spread the range out wider than the radio really likes to go. A bigger fly in the soup for this or any LB handheld is the antenna. It's only going to work over a rather narrow segment, and has to be re-tuned to go beyond that. 1-2 MHz would be wide for a low band antenna, due to the loading they have to put in it to keep it from being 4-5 foot long.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: WTB - Icom IC-22U
The 22U is a synthesized radio, 144-148 MHZ. and I think I have one, let me look for it. Juan Tellez From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lee Pennington Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:40 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: WTB - Icom IC-22U Mike, I have one, and possibly the Xtal pair you'll need, about 10 watts output in the high posiition. $25.00 shipped, No mic. ...$30.00 with mic. Lee, K4LJP 73 On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Mike (WM4B) Besemer mwbese...@cox.net wrote: I'm looking for an Icom IC-22U for use at a repeater site as a remote base. Physical condition is not particularly important. I would prefer a working unit, but may consider one in repairable condition, depending on the fault. 73, Mike WM4B -- Smart pills are placebos, you can't fix stupid. __ Información de ESET Smart Security, versión de la base de firmas de virus 3819 (20090202) __ ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje. http://www.eset.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Radios and Coms in TV and Movies
neal Newman wrote: Yeah and If you notice. the HT is actually a Kenwood TH-21BT radio This radio with the optional Headset Does in fact have VOX Neal Well, all the ones I saw were the -41A versions, but they may have sneaked a 21 in or some reason. And yes, they were actually using the radios, at least some of the time.
[Repeater-Builder] Non-Standard Reverse Burst WAS: Kenwood TKR-850 question
That's not exactly true. TIA-603-C clearly states that there are two reverse-burst formats, 120 (AKA 240) and 180 degrees, and gives neither one special standard status. Motorola found that a 120-degree reverse-burst shift stopped the mechanical reeds quicker than a 180-degree shift. Now that DSP has replaced mechanical reeds, the technical aspect has lost its importance. Nate is correct that the shift is now a marketing ploy, wherein a newly-installed Brand X repeater will suddenly cause all Brand Y radios to have squelch crashes, and the Brand X sales rep will claim that the Brand Y radios use obsolete technology. That happened in my local police department when a Brand X repeater was installed; a large number of Brand Y radios were immediately replaced with Brand X radios. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wd8chl Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 11:22 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Kenwood TKR-850 question snip Snuck a little Marketing into their programming software, did they? :-) Nate WY0X Yeah-especially since the 120 degree shift is the 'non-standard' shift. WD8CHI
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Non-Standard Reverse Burst WAS: Kenwood TKR-850 question
I was going to bring up TIA-603-C, but I figured it wasn't worth the resulting religious battles that would result in the Gaza Strip here. (GRIN) I've also seen at least one (clueless) agency switch radios instead of simply demanding the manufacturer support their existing radios. Wasted of taxpayer dollars. Stupid is as stupid does! They could have demanded proper support or thrown the repeater manufacturer out. But there were other politics involved... if someone high enough up is a Brand X fanatic, it just means the taxpayers lose... What bugs me about the above, is that I'm just an Amateur and I can figure out that there's two prevailing standards. Why can't some professionals? Most get it, but there's still people out there who don't. Perhaps they shouldn't be working on Public Safety systems? Mmm? Just a thought... Nate WY0X -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 1:09 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Non-Standard Reverse Burst WAS: Kenwood TKR-850 question That's not exactly true. TIA-603-C clearly states that there are two reverse-burst formats, 120 (AKA 240) and 180 degrees, and gives neither one special standard status. Motorola found that a 120-degree reverse-burst shift stopped the mechanical reeds quicker than a 180-degree shift. Now that DSP has replaced mechanical reeds, the technical aspect has lost its importance. Nate is correct that the shift is now a marketing ploy, wherein a newly-installed Brand X repeater will suddenly cause all Brand Y radios to have squelch crashes, and the Brand X sales rep will claim that the Brand Y radios use obsolete technology. That happened in my local police department when a Brand X repeater was installed; a large number of Brand Y radios were immediately replaced with Brand X radios. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wd8chl Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 11:22 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Kenwood TKR-850 question snip Snuck a little Marketing into their programming software, did they? :-) Nate WY0X Yeah-especially since the 120 degree shift is the 'non-standard' shift. WD8CHI Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Fwd: Best ever football play!!
At 22:27 2/2/2009, Ron wrote: Best ever football play!! Nah, http://alumni.berkeley.edu/KCAA_Multimedia/The_Play_1982.asp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Play -- Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html -
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Fwd: Best ever football play!!
At 22:27 2/2/2009, Ron wrote: Best ever football play!! Nah, http://alumni.berkeley.edu/KCAA_Multimedia/The_Play_1982.asp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Play -- Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html -
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola Maxar mods for 6M?
There's also the Maxar-50... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wd8chl Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 12:31 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola Maxar mods for 6M? Eric Lemmon wrote: Keep in mind that a Maxar-80 is not the same as a Maxar. There are some similarities, to be sure, but what works in a Maxar-80 may not necessarily work in a Maxar. Each radio model has its own idiosyncrasies. Some individual radios of a given model may convert to 6m easily, while other identical radios require some work. YMMV... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY Well, about the only difference between the Moxy, Maxar, and Maxar-80, other than vintage (the M-80 is newer), is that basically, to get to the next model down, they pretty much just took out parts. The M-80 has the most helicals and filtering, the Maxar has had some of that removed, and the Moxy has had most of it removed. Among a few other things.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] duplexer
I just uploaded the manual for the application/pdf PD-522-509.pdf http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/QKKISXVJzk1H25Gw-jX2o6QkQaLp7PwFU4-gc_uABT4ful y5TVGc2b536zWTjbBUM_MMhUUfS_8DVxpBedWJwoed/PD-522-509.pdf In the files section of this Yahoo Group W6CBS - Bill Hudson _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff DePolo Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:31 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] duplexer If I remember right, it's four notches and two passes. The normal configuration was one pass and one notch on the Rx leg, and two pass and two notch on the Tx leg. --- Jeff WN3A -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 12:29 PM To: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] duplexer hi all, I have a Phelps Dodge RFS/Celwave) 522-509 old UHF 6 cavity duplexer. Each cavity has one tuning rod only. Does anyone know what type of duplexer, bpbr, bp, br, etc this critter is. I am trying to tune. 73, ron, n9ee/r No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. http://www.avg.com com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.12/1911 - Release Date: 2/2/2009 7:21 PM image001.gif
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Non-Standard Reverse Burst WAS: Kenwood TKR-850 question
Nate Duehr wrote: I was going to bring up TIA-603-C, but I figured it wasn't worth the resulting religious battles that would result in the Gaza Strip here. (GRIN) I've also seen at least one (clueless) agency switch radios instead of simply demanding the manufacturer support their existing radios. Wasted of taxpayer dollars. Stupid is as stupid does! They could have demanded proper support or thrown the repeater manufacturer out. But there were other politics involved... if someone high enough up is a Brand X fanatic, it just means the taxpayers lose... What bugs me about the above, is that I'm just an Amateur and I can figure out that there's two prevailing standards. Why can't some professionals? Most get it, but there's still people out there who don't. Perhaps they shouldn't be working on Public Safety systems? Mmm? Just a thought... Nate WY0X Yeah- there sure is a lot of people who should NOT be doing commercial radio, let alone PS... And even stranger, most of the more recent Kenwoods I have played with seem to decode either just fine. My F6, my 705D and 805D, my wife's G71 and G707, as well as 830's, 840's, and 860's I've 'played' with. I haven't had much chance to play with -80 or -90 series, or the current stuff. But what I just listed all played well with either a stock Micor, MSF, TKR, MastrII (the ones that had STE), or MastrIII. It's going the other way (rx'ing with the M's) that doesn't always work, even within different vintage M radios. So it's not that hard to make a radio that will respond to either format, on the fly. No programming required...
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola Maxar mods for 6M?
Eric Lemmon wrote: There's also the Maxar-50... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY Well, yeah...but it WAS a horse of a different color ;c}
[Repeater-Builder] OT: Chicken Stick
Does any one know where I can obtain a fiberglass chicken stick? I had one at Collins Radio that was about a foot long, 1/4 inch in diameter and would like to obtain the same. It is sure a lot safer probing around the anode of a Klystron with a chicken stick than a metal screwdriver. 73 and TNX Bernie Parker K5BP
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Chicken Stick
dallasreact112 wrote: Does any one know where I can obtain a fiberglass chicken stick? I had one at Collins Radio that was about a foot long, 1/4 inch in diameter and would like to obtain the same. It is sure a lot safer probing around the anode of a Klystron with a chicken stick than a metal screwdriver. Go to your local CB shop and ask them for a broken whip (the ones with the copper wire wrapped around the fiberglass rod). Easy to trim with a grinder or dremel tool. Stay away from the Francis antennas as the wire is embedded into the rod. Most are 1/4 to 3/8 in diameter. Oh ya they're free :) Tedd Doda, VE3TJD Lazer Audio and Electronics http://www.ve3tjd.com My idea of a symphony: 8 pistons playing the tune my right foot tells them to.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Chicken Stick
At 02:22 PM 2/3/2009, dallasreact112 wrote: Does any one know where I can obtain a fiberglass chicken stick? I had one at Collins Radio that was about a foot long, 1/4 inch in diameter and would like to obtain the same. It is sure a lot safer probing around the anode of a Klystron with a chicken stick than a metal screwdriver. ---Then again there's always wood. Never had a problem with a kiln dried dowel before Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Chicken Stick
I'd be wary of wood. it can attract enough moisture to become conductive. Mike WM4B From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken Arck Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 6:03 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Chicken Stick At 02:22 PM 2/3/2009, dallasreact112 wrote: Does any one know where I can obtain a fiberglass chicken stick? I had one at Collins Radio that was about a foot long, 1/4 inch in diameter and would like to obtain the same. It is sure a lot safer probing around the anode of a Klystron with a chicken stick than a metal screwdriver. ---Then again there's always wood. Never had a problem with a kiln dried dowel before Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em! image001.jpgimage002.jpg
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola Maxar mods for 6M?
Keep in mind that a Maxar-80 is not the same as a Maxar. There are some similarities, to be sure, but what works in a Maxar-80 may not necessarily work in a Maxar. Each radio model has its own idiosyncrasies. Some individual radios of a given model may convert to 6m easily, while other identical radios require some work. YMMV... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wd8chl Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 11:37 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola Maxar mods for 6M? Dennis Ashworth wrote: I have a Motorola Maxar, plate number D31TRA2300AK I scanned through the Repeater builder site and didn't find many hits on the model. I want to put this on 6M - any experience on how difficult it would be to insert a 6M crystal set/realign? Any thoughts or referrals would be most appreciated Tnx Dennis, K7FL Battle Ground, WA I have a Maxar-80 on 6M now, and it covers 52.525 and the big local repeater just fine (no more than 400 KHz spread however). When I got it, it had already been setup on 6, so I don't know what if any modes may have been done, but I can't believe there was much done. I can see how it might not work as well on 53 MHz freqs, but below should be fine. For what you want to do, I suspect it will be much lower in band, and less of a problem. Also you more likely want a xtal controlled radio for quicker key-up/key-down times. Some synth radios are a little slow, or a little noisy in the first few mS.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: duplexer
Bill, Thanks so much. Just what I needed. 73, ron, n9ee/r --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Bill Hudson w6...@... wrote: I just uploaded the manual for the application/pdf PD-522-509.pdf http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/QKKISXVJzk1H25Gw-jX2o6QkQaLp7PwFU4- gc_uABT4ful y5TVGc2b536zWTjbBUM_MMhUUfS_8DVxpBedWJwoed/PD-522-509.pdf In the files section of this Yahoo Group W6CBS - Bill Hudson _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff DePolo Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:31 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] duplexer If I remember right, it's four notches and two passes. The normal configuration was one pass and one notch on the Rx leg, and two pass and two notch on the Tx leg. --- Jeff WN3A -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder% 40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder% 40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 12:29 PM To: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] duplexer hi all, I have a Phelps Dodge RFS/Celwave) 522-509 old UHF 6 cavity duplexer. Each cavity has one tuning rod only. Does anyone know what type of duplexer, bpbr, bp, br, etc this critter is. I am trying to tune. 73, ron, n9ee/r No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. http://www.avg.com com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.12/1911 - Release Date: 2/2/2009 7:21 PM
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Chicken Stick
Thats what I use, an old bicycle safety flag stick cut off to what ever length I need. They are very close to .250. Collin -Original Message- From: Mike Besemer (WM4B) mwbese...@cox.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 5:25 pm Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Chicken Stick How about the shaft from a bicycle flag? Also, I’ve seen driveway reflectors at Lowes that have fiberglass shafts for about $2. If it were me, I’d put a Megger on them to make sure they don’t conduct. You never know if they might have some carbon fiber added for strength. The ones we had when I was in the Air Force were Phenolic, but generally too big to do any probing. 73, Mike WM4B From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dallasreact112 Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 5:23 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Chicken Stick Does any one know where I can obtain a fiberglass chicken stick? I had one at Collins Radio that was about a foot long, 1/4 inch in diameter and would like to obtain the same. It is sure a lot safer probing around the anode of a Klystron with a chicken stick than a metal screwdriver. 73 and TNX Bernie Parker K5BP [Image Removed] [Image Removed]
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: WTB - Icom IC-22U
Mike, I will be keeping my eyes open and get one if it shows up. Collin -Original Message- From: Mike (WM4B) Besemer mwbese...@cox.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:31 pm Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT: WTB - Icom IC-22U I'm looking for an Icom IC-22U for use at a repeater site as a remote base. Physical condition is not particularly important. I would prefer a working unit, but may consider one in repairable condition, depending on the fault. 73, Mike WM4B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Kenwood TKR-850 question
Nate Duehr wrote: On Jan 28, 2009, at 10:06 PM, Eric Lemmon wrote: If the Motorola radios are Professional Series (HT1250, CDM1550, etc.) you can go into CPS and select Non Standard Reverse Burst on the Advanced tab. This will program the radio to encode and decode in the 180 degree format, on a channel-by-channel basis. Kenwood will provide a firmware upgrade to accomplish the same thing- but for a fee, of course, and you must send the radio back to the depot to have this done. Non-standard. Tee Hee. Cute, Motorola. Snuck a little Marketing into their programming software, did they? :-) Nate WY0X Yeah-especially since the 120 degree shift is the 'non-standard' shift.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Fwd: Best ever football play!!
But that's not football... to the rest of the world . To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com; jwin...@ocsnet.net; m.shorewal...@gmail.com CC: chowchi...@sbcglobal.net; jackan...@sbcglobal.net; repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com; ronle...@contractor.net From: da...@wcf.com Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:28:12 -0800 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Fwd: Best ever football play!! At 22:27 2/2/2009, Ron wrote: Best ever football play!! Nah, http://alumni.berkeley.edu/KCAA_Multimedia/The_Play_1982.asp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Play -- Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html -- _ Get the most out of your life online! Click here for the latest news and tips. http://livelife.ninemsn.com.au/
[Repeater-Builder] Re:Comparison Between P25 Conventional Radio Data Transmission
I would hardly consider moving from conventional analog to digital an upgrade.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Chicken Stick
How about the shaft from a bicycle flag? Also, I've seen driveway reflectors at Lowes that have fiberglass shafts for about $2. If it were me, I'd put a Megger on them to make sure they don't conduct. You never know if they might have some carbon fiber added for strength. The ones we had when I was in the Air Force were Phenolic, but generally too big to do any probing. 73, Mike WM4B From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dallasreact112 Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 5:23 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Chicken Stick Does any one know where I can obtain a fiberglass chicken stick? I had one at Collins Radio that was about a foot long, 1/4 inch in diameter and would like to obtain the same. It is sure a lot safer probing around the anode of a Klystron with a chicken stick than a metal screwdriver. 73 and TNX Bernie Parker K5BP image001.jpgimage002.jpg
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Non-Standard Reverse Burst WAS: Kenwood TKR-850 question
I readily agree that it IS possible, but darned if the commercial manufacturers are not using that DSP capability to discriminate between 120 degrees and 180 degrees of reverse-burst tone shift. A case in point: The local PD has a Kenwood repeater, and the County SO has a Motorola repeater- on separate public-safety frequencies, of course. The PD has Kenwood TK-380 and TK-390 portables, and TK-890 mobiles. The SO has HT1000, MT2000, and HT1250 portables, and both Spectra and CDM mobiles. Since the HT1250 and CDM1550-LS+ radios have the CPS-selectable reverse-burst shift, the SO deputies with those radios can use the mutual-aid channel with the PD and have silent muting. The PD officers, on the other hand, always create and suffer annoying squelch crashes when using the mutual aid channel. I agree with Nate- suppliers of commercial radios should be REQUIRED to furnish radios that automatically select the phase shift to eliminate squelch crashes, not to ensure that they occur! Fans of the old Highway Patrol show with Broderick Crawford may recall that the obligatory squelch crash followed every radio communication. That gets really old after a few minutes! Curiously, there are some old-timers who declare that they really like to hear squelch crashes. Let's hope that these people never are permitted to select public-safety radio systems... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wd8chl Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 1:40 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Non-Standard Reverse Burst WAS: Kenwood TKR-850 question Nate Duehr wrote: I was going to bring up TIA-603-C, but I figured it wasn't worth the resulting religious battles that would result in the Gaza Strip here. (GRIN) I've also seen at least one (clueless) agency switch radios instead of simply demanding the manufacturer support their existing radios. Wasted of taxpayer dollars. Stupid is as stupid does! They could have demanded proper support or thrown the repeater manufacturer out. But there were other politics involved... if someone high enough up is a Brand X fanatic, it just means the taxpayers lose... What bugs me about the above, is that I'm just an Amateur and I can figure out that there's two prevailing standards. Why can't some professionals? Most get it, but there's still people out there who don't. Perhaps they shouldn't be working on Public Safety systems? Mmm? Just a thought... Nate WY0X Yeah- there sure is a lot of people who should NOT be doing commercial radio, let alone PS... And even stranger, most of the more recent Kenwoods I have played with seem to decode either just fine. My F6, my 705D and 805D, my wife's G71 and G707, as well as 830's, 840's, and 860's I've 'played' with. I haven't had much chance to play with -80 or -90 series, or the current stuff. But what I just listed all played well with either a stock Micor, MSF, TKR, MastrII (the ones that had STE), or MastrIII. It's going the other way (rx'ing with the M's) that doesn't always work, even within different vintage M radios. So it's not that hard to make a radio that will respond to either format, on the fly. No programming required...
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 2 meter noise help!
Mike Besemer (WM4B) wrote: H. got one of those on our systems too. We even told him to stay off. sent him certified mail, email, and have recordings of control ops telling him to stay off. but he's still there. Apparently he's never read Part 97.205(e). I guess we're all going to have to deal with the occasional problem-child now and then. Send him a registered letter that he is no longer allowed to use your repeater, then back it up. If he even HICCUPS on the frequency, turn the repeater off. And be CONSISTENT about it! And copy the FCC and your repeater council! And if you have some buddies in law enforcement locally, get them in the loop too.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola Maxar mods for 6M?
Eric Lemmon wrote: Keep in mind that a Maxar-80 is not the same as a Maxar. There are some similarities, to be sure, but what works in a Maxar-80 may not necessarily work in a Maxar. Each radio model has its own idiosyncrasies. Some individual radios of a given model may convert to 6m easily, while other identical radios require some work. YMMV... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY Well, about the only difference between the Moxy, Maxar, and Maxar-80, other than vintage (the M-80 is newer), is that basically, to get to the next model down, they pretty much just took out parts. The M-80 has the most helicals and filtering, the Maxar has had some of that removed, and the Moxy has had most of it removed. Among a few other things.
[Repeater-Builder] Motorola CM300 UHF
Is there anyway to take the CM300 down below 438Mhz. Mike K7PFJ Colorado Telecom, L.L.C Mike Mullarkey 6886 Sage Ave Firestone, Co 80504 303-954-9695 Home 303-954-9693 Home Office Fax 303-718-8052 Cellular
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Kenwood tk-190 on 6 meters
Yes, the factory standard antenna is fairly narrow beast. With a little bit of magic, mirrors and a modification I can get one to perform good enough for my 43 to 53 MHz needs. cheers, s. wd8chl wd8...@... wrote: A bigger fly in the soup for this or any LB handheld is the antenna. It's only going to work over a rather narrow segment, and has to be re-tuned to go beyond that. 1-2 MHz would be wide for a low band antenna, due to the loading they have to put in it to keep it from being 4-5 foot long. skipp025 wrote: The Kenwood TK-190 portable does go into the ham bands... the only major fly in the soup is the tk-190 radio wants to be programmed and operate within a relatively narrow range/band of frequencies (say up to a few MHz max frequency separation between high and low end channels, else it protests. You can jam the frequencies into the radio and it works.. but I suspect the receive sens will at one point suffer (drop off or go away) if you try to spread the range out wider than the radio really likes to go.
[Repeater-Builder] Nominal impedance of a Telewave T-1560 Dual Isolator???
What exactly should the nominal impedance of a VHF Telewave T-1560 Dual Isolator be? The reason I ask... I broke out the DMM this evening trying to make some sense of a repeater issue we've been having... Removed each one of the 35 watt dummies off of the load port of the isolator, one at a time, and verified they sit right at 52 Ohms from pin to shield (male N-type connector). Then I check the load ports on the isolator itself where the 35 watt dummies were connected - 0 Ohms (direct short) from pin to shield. I then checked the in and out ports of the isolator (tx and antenna ports). These both showed a direct short from pin to shield. I also verified that there is a direct short from pin to pin on all 4 connectors (tx, ant, load 1, load 2), along with shield (chassis/ground) to shield all around. So... My question is... Should there be a direct short from center pin to chassis on this isolator? 73s, AJ, K6LOR/R 147.080+ 444.750+
