Re: [Repeater-Builder] Dual receivers on one antenna for RX only site
On Mar 9, 2010, at 5:54 PM, Gary Schafer wrote: Yep, that's what we got on the e-mail side of things... did you mean to send a completely blank reply, Gary? -- Nate Duehr, WY0X n...@natetech.com facebook.com/denverpilot twitter.com/denverpilot
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Dual receivers on one antenna for RX only site
On Mar 9, 2010, at 8:37 PM, n...@no6b.com wrote: t most certainly does. Try random length cables from the cavities to the T instead of 1/4 wavelength (like one local did several years ago) watch your sensitivity drop by over 20 dB if you're unlucky (as he was). That mistake literally killed off a local radio club, as few of the members were able to use the repeater following the addition of the T wrong cables. Thanks both Bob and Skipp for explaining that one odd-ball configuration that would crush the receivers with random cable lengths that just happen to hit the right sweet spot to do this. I suspect, that if someone saw a 20 dB loss while installing this setup, they'd at least STOP and start asking questions -- maybe they wouldn't get it that they'd hit this perfect storm combination -- maybe they'd think they had some kind of receiver failure when it suddenly was really deaf -- but I also doubt that *most* people would hit the problem. Would you agree with that assessment? (Skipp's comment that if there's a train wreck to be found, he'll be there... I know that feeling.) I guess what I'm saying here in a round-about way is... random cable lengths really shouldn't be that much of an issue in a setup like this, but yeah... agreed... once in a while it'll bite you like an alligator (had to get that elephant/alligator theme in here, just one more time! GRIN!)... I've seen lots of people get away with it. As far as the 3dB lost in a true broadband splitter -- also true, of course, Bob -- at most of the sites where we have to share a receive antenna with multiple rigs, the site measured noise-floor is so high the 3dB doesn't have much of an impact... just keeping the local crud out of the receivers is difficult enough -- sometimes that 3dB loss helps, instead of hinders, so to speak. :-) I guess we should all probably also mention the evils of not terminating all the unused ports on a multi-splitter with 50 Ohm loads, too... if we're going to get this picky, right? ;-) -- Nate Duehr, WY0X n...@natetech.com facebook.com/denverpilot twitter.com/denverpilot
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Noise Level on a Duplexer
Kent, I have seen this sort of problem before in a simaler application. I believe that your duplexer may have a bad internal connection, possibly at a fingerstock contact. In my case the problem was solved by replacing the duplexer. I believe the problem was caused by tuning the duplexer under power rather than with a network analyser. This occured many years ago, so my memory may be faulty. Best Regards de Eric (W1EL) Eric Lowell Eastern Maine Electronics Inc. 48 Loon Road Wesley ME 04686 eme@starband.net www.satnetmaine.com 207-210-7469 From: Kent Chong kentchon...@yahoo.com.sg To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 10:31:30 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Noise Level on a Duplexer Dear Joe, Yes, we have observed the signal with a spectrum analyser. It is a broadband noise covering our entire TETRA band. Yes, the transmitter is keyed up continually. Regarding oscillation, what circuitry will develop the oscillation in 3 days? We are thinking about the heat problem too, as heat may be developed overtime. Best Regards, Kent --- On Tue, 9/3/10, Joe k1ike_m...@snet. net wrote: From: Joe k1ike_m...@snet. net Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Noise Level on a Duplexer To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Tuesday, 9 March, 2010, 8:52 PM Hello Kent, Have you looked at the noise on a spectrum analyzer? Is is broadbanded noise, or is it just on your receiver frequencies? If it is only on specific frequencies, is it frequency stable or does it drift around? Also, do any of your transmitters stay constantly keyed up? I'm wondering if something external to your system is oscillating. Your signals may be causing it to go into self-oscillation. When you shut your system off it stops. This is just a guess right now. 73, Joe, K1ike http://sg.rd. yahoo.com/ sg/mail/domainch oice/mail/ signature/ *http://mail. promotions. yahoo.com/ newdomains/ sg/ Get your new Email address! Grab the Email name you've always wanted before someone else does!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Noise Level on a Duplexer
Dear Eric, Thank you for your mail. Yes, we found that the interconnect T-Join between two system is heated up. Could we just cool down the T-Join for there is other way to solve this issue? Best Regards, Kent --- On Wed, 10/3/10, Eric Lowell elowell9...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Eric Lowell elowell9...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Noise Level on a Duplexer To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, 10 March, 2010, 8:54 PM Kent, I have seen this sort of problem before in a simaler application. I believe that your duplexer may have a bad internal connection, possibly at a fingerstock contact. In my case the problem was solved by replacing the duplexer. I believe the problem was caused by tuning the duplexer under power rather than with a network analyser. This occured many years ago, so my memory may be faulty. Best Regards de Eric (W1EL) Eric Lowell Eastern Maine Electronics Inc. 48 Loon Road Wesley ME 04686 eme@starband. net www.satnetmaine. com 207-210-7469 From: Kent Chong kentchongkm@ yahoo.com. sg To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 10:31:30 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Noise Level on a Duplexer Dear Joe, Yes, we have observed the signal with a spectrum analyser. It is a broadband noise covering our entire TETRA band. Yes, the transmitter is keyed up continually. Regarding oscillation, what circuitry will develop the oscillation in 3 days? We are thinking about the heat problem too, as heat may be developed overtime. Best Regards, Kent --- On Tue, 9/3/10, Joe k1ike_m...@snet. net wrote: From: Joe k1ike_m...@snet. net Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Noise Level on a Duplexer To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Tuesday, 9 March, 2010, 8:52 PM Hello Kent, Have you looked at the noise on a spectrum analyzer? Is is broadbanded noise, or is it just on your receiver frequencies? If it is only on specific frequencies, is it frequency stable or does it drift around? Also, do any of your transmitters stay constantly keyed up? I'm wondering if something external to your system is oscillating. Your signals may be causing it to go into self-oscillation. When you shut your system off it stops. This is just a guess right now. 73, Joe, K1ike http://sg.rd. yahoo.com/ sg/mail/domainch oice/mail/ signature/ *http://mail. promotions. yahoo.com/ newdomains/ sg/ Get your new Email address! Grab the Email name you've always wanted before someone else does! New Email names for you! Get the Email name you#39;ve always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail. Hurry before someone else does! http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/sg/
[Repeater-Builder] SPECTRA SERVICE MANUAL
HEY MEMBERS, DOES ANY MEMBERS HAS A COMPLETE SERVICE MANUAL OF SPECTRA,I HAVE SOMETHING TO TROUBLE HERE IN MY OLD SPECTRA,THANKS BOB HERE IN THE PHILS.
[Repeater-Builder] MOTOROLA MTX960
ANY BODY HAVE TRIED TO PROGRAM THIS MODEL TO 880. MHZ, ORIGINAL BAND COVERAGE IS 806 TO 869.000 THANKS AGAIN
[Repeater-Builder] MRF 847
HEY MEMBERS: I HAVE FEW STOCKS OF MRF 847 HERE IN MY SHOP, MAYBE ANY BODY NEED THIS. OPEN FOR NEGOTIATION...
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Amphenol Connex RF connectors
Anyone care to comment on the quality of the Amphenol Connex line of RF connectors? They have a pretty good price point, but only if they aren't junk. lh It is my understanding that Connex was started as a division of Amphenol after some kind of a buy-out of another manufacturer that mostly manufacturered overseas. Amphenol's strategy was to keep Connex as a RF-connectors-only subsidiary, and leverage the reduce costs of off-shore manufacturing, selling the resulting products under the Connex name rather than replacing existing products in the Amphenol product line (which extends way behind just RF connectors). I was reluctant to buy any of the Connex connectors when they first showed up, but I've bought a bunch (maybe 20 or 30) adapters and a few dozen N and BNC connectors and the quality is good. I'd say they're a step up from Amphenol's RFX product line, which had been their lower-budget line they came out with maybe 15 years or so ago to compete with some of the lower-cost manufacturers' products. While I mainly buy RF Industries connectors for run-of-the-mill applications and Huber+Suhner, Delta, and Kings for more mission-critical stuff, I wouldn't hesitate to use Connex based on what I've seen thus far. There are other manufacturers that I purposely avoid... --- - Jeff WN3A
Re: [Repeater-Builder]GE Portable - Vintage?
That did it! Thanks! **Sorry for the multiple posts on this same subject, I wasn't seeing it come up in my box** John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 - Original Message - From: countywifi To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder]GE Portable - Vintage? Maybe this link will lead you in the correct direction... It is a PE 66KDWDHX Personal Series Portable... 11000-6 (PC-71) http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/product-code-indexes/index-pc71-personal-pe-series.pdf
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Amphenol Connex RF connectors
Well that gives me some comfort. I have been using H+S for many years and find them to be excellent as well as their feedlines. But I have been having some trouble getting H+S since they pulled out of Canukistan 5 years ago. Thanks for the opinion. lh On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 11:37 AM, Jeff DePolo j...@broadsci.com wrote: Anyone care to comment on the quality of the Amphenol Connex line of RF connectors? They have a pretty good price point, but only if they aren't junk. lh It is my understanding that Connex was started as a division of Amphenol after some kind of a buy-out of another manufacturer that mostly manufacturered overseas. Amphenol's strategy was to keep Connex as a RF-connectors-only subsidiary, and leverage the reduce costs of off-shore manufacturing, selling the resulting products under the Connex name rather than replacing existing products in the Amphenol product line (which extends way behind just RF connectors). I was reluctant to buy any of the Connex connectors when they first showed up, but I've bought a bunch (maybe 20 or 30) adapters and a few dozen N and BNC connectors and the quality is good. I'd say they're a step up from Amphenol's RFX product line, which had been their lower-budget line they came out with maybe 15 years or so ago to compete with some of the lower-cost manufacturers' products. While I mainly buy RF Industries connectors for run-of-the-mill applications and Huber+Suhner, Delta, and Kings for more mission-critical stuff, I wouldn't hesitate to use Connex based on what I've seen thus far. There are other manufacturers that I purposely avoid... --- - Jeff WN3A
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Dual receivers on one antenna for RX only site
This is a resend of my email to Nate last night. It looks like good old yahoo stripped my reply. Hi Nate, A UHF pass band cavity for example will pass only a UHF frequency that it is tuned for. On frequency signals coming into it will see 50 ohms. Off frequency signals will see a short circuit and will be greatly attenuated. The input loop of the cavity (as well as the output loop) looks like a short circuit at all but the tuned frequency. So anything that happens to be in parallel with the loop will also see the short circuit if the frequency is not that to which the cavity is tuned to. So if you had a half wave length cable between the cavity and your T connector, then the short circuit at the cavity (off frequency short) would also look like a short circuit at the T connector. No problem for the UHF signal as that frequency sees 50 ohms at the T. but any other frequency sees a short circuit at the T and would be attenuated there. Now if that cable was a quarter wave length instead of a half wave length, the short circuit (off frequency short) would be transformed to an open circuit at the T connector. That would allow all other frequencies to be present with no attenuation at the T. If you used a random length of cable here, you may be ok and you may not be depending on how far away from a quarter wave length the cable happened to be. This is exactly how a duplexer works. The cables between the T and each cavity set is a quarter wave length at the opposite frequency for which the cavity is tuned to. The quarter wave length cable connected to the T always wants to see a short at the other end at the frequency that it does not want to pass, as the quarter wave length transforms the short to a open which does not load down the other side of the circuit.. With close spaced duplexers sometimes the two cables may be very close in length or the same, as the cable is not near as high a Q as the cavity is. Further to your current post, there is more of a chance of hitting a bad cable length than there is of not. Only a quarter wave length will transform short (low impedance) to a high impedance to the T. All other lengths will be something with lower impedance at the T, which you don't want. If everything is set up right you should be able to remove the other cable from the T and notice no difference on the remaining receiver. As far as passive splitters go rather than using the above cavity setup, it is always a good idea to use a splitter for isolation between receivers. The same thing can happen as described above (with no cavities) as the tuned input stage on the receiver will do the same thing to rob power from the other receiver depending on cable length between a T and the receivers. A splitter really does not rob any power from the system. If you think about it, each receiver is going to pull half of the power from the antenna line anyway. So just the fact that you connected the two together, the total antenna power is going to be shared between the two receivers if you are lucky enough to not have other losses due to impedance match problems sucking more than that out. So the 3 db loss that a splitter gives you is there anyway. But with the splitter everything sees the proper impedance and maximum power is transferred to each. UNUSED PORTS ON A RECEIVER MULTICOUPLER A receiver multicoupler by the way is basically just a multi way splitter. A TV splitter is built exactly the same. There are two different type of couplers used. One type the unused ports must be terminated in order to maintain 50 ohms at all other ports. The other type it doesn't matter if they are terminated or not as the port on this type is isolated by the amount of port to port isolation. Depends on the manufacturer. VSWR LOSSES ON RECEIVER ANTENNA LINE Yes you can have vswr losses on your receiver line going up the tower depending on the match that the line sees down at the BOTTOM of the tower. It works just the opposite of a transmitter line. The transmitter line requires a good match at the antenna end of the line in order to keep the vswr low on the line. This will keep lose to a minimum. But when the energy is originating at the antenna end of the line, then the match at the bottom of the line becomes important to minimize vswr loss on the line. A mismatch at the bottom of the line causes reflections (with part of the received power) to go back up the line and become attenuated by the regular line loss. At the top of the line that energy is re-reflected back down the line again and is further attenuated by the regular line loss. This re-reflected energy eventually adds to the signal (minus the amount lost). So the worse the match the more reflected energy there is going back and forth on the line and less ultimately reaches the receiver. The more original line loss there is the worse the problem becomes. This is another reason for paying attention to proper matching at the receive end. You end up with the
[Repeater-Builder] Re: HAM Mototrbo Systems
Dan, TRBO-6 network website is: www.trbo.info and has some basic info for getting repeaters onto the network. Or checkout the yahoo group: mototrbousa ...Mike, wb6...@gmail.com --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Dan Blasberg ka8...@... wrote: Mike, In the DC area there is currently one UHF machine and about 5-10 amateurs playing with MOTOTRBO. I would be interested to know what other areas are using for setting or are they leaving everything in the default setting?
[Repeater-Builder] Antenna Phasing Question
Hello Folks I have three (3) Antel [BCD 80010] 806-900 mHz vertical antennae that I would like to mount on the three legs of my tower for omni pattern (Rec. only). Several questions come to mind. 1.) At the rated frequency, how many inches should the side arm place the ant. from the tower? 2.)What would be the best way to phase the antennae? I have a Andrews three port Splitter, and will use LDF4-50A for feedline. I would suspect the length of the pigtail from each antenna to splitter is going to be critical...or not, for receive only? BTW..How good of an antenna is the Antel BCD 80010? Many thanks for any guidance and wisdom. Tim Hardy W7TRH/AFA0TP Vashon Is. Wa.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Dual receivers on one antenna for RX only site
-Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wd8chl Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:07 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Dual receivers on one antenna for RX only site It you are not combining the UHF and VHF signals with cavities then a signal splitter should be used. Even a TV cable type splitter will work ok for this. Don't worry about it being 75 ohms rather than 50 ohms. Without a splitter one receiver can load the input of the other considerably (depending on the luck of cable lengths) if just a simple T is used to connect the antenna to the two receivers. I know of a system that has 2 VHF receivers tied to one antenna with a 'T' connector and random coax-deliberately. At the T junction, the receivers need *many* uV of signal...plus the squelch is all the way tight. Too many problems with out-of-town junk on the input. So it has many rx's and a big voter. It proves your point-if you just use a 'T' connector, it'll be deaf as a doorknob. In this case the receivers would benefit from a splitter. That would make everything see 50 ohms regardless of cable lengths. Also the splitter 3 db loss per side will probably be less that what it is now as each receiver takes half the power to start with no matter if you have a splitter or not. 73 Gary K4FMX
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Noise Level on a Duplexer
On Wed, 10 Mar 2010, Kent Chong wrote: Yes, we found that the interconnect T-Join between two system is heated up. Could we just cool down the T-Join for there is other way to solve this issue? Replace the tee. It has failed, or one of the connectors attached to the coax has failed and the heat is conducting into the tee. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR Disinformation Analyst
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Dual receivers on one antenna for RX only site
One thing was missed regarding cable lengths. The loops in the cans are part of the equation for figuring the 1/4 wave length. I've seen that discussed here many times in postings related to inter-cable lengths on duplexers. But the 1/4 wave length issue only applies to the inter-cabling between the cans. It is my understanding that the antenna to duplexer lengths are irrelevant since the T connector and the rest of the feedline are all part of the equation. It's not like the T is some magical device that makes the rest of the feedline disappear electrically. The only time length might be a problem is if the entire feedline happens to be a resonant length. If by some chance that happens, then changing the jumper a couple of inches will clear that. Dan N8DJP Posted by: n...@no6b.com n...@no6b.com no6b Date: Tue Mar 9, 2010 8:29 pm ((PST)) At 3/9/2010 20:12, you wrote: OK, question... If you put a cable which is 1/4-wavelength at VHF between the T and the UHF cavity, it's 3/4-wavelength at UHF. Since any odd multiple of a quarter wavelength will invert the impedance, what will this really accomplish on the UHF cavity side? Doesn't matter at UHF, since the cavity looks like (hopefully something close to) 50 + j0 ohms @ UHF, so the cable length has no effect (other than plain ol' cable loss) @ UHF. At VHF, the short at the UHF cavity connector (I'll take Gary's word that it looks like a short off-resonance, though to be sure you'd want to put the can on a VNA to get the actual phase angle at the connector) needs to be transformed to an open at the T so it has no effect VHF. The short-to-open transformation @ VHF is accomplished with a 1/4 wavelength of coax @ VHF. The dual-band diplexers are usually high-pass/low-pass arrangements, and lose something like 0.2 dB while providing 40 dB or more isolation. Assuming you get a real one, and not something made with PIM-prne materials, would this not be a safer bet? It's true you wouldn't need to mess with cable lengths if a cross-band diplexer were used, but OTOH it would be another piece of hardware in the system that really isn't necessary, since the cavities are already there. Plus if you're really worried about PIM, you'd probably have to move up to something like a cross-band coupler from TX-RX, which IIRC runs over $300. Bob NO6B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Noise Level on a Duplexer
Hello Kent, Everybody go in the same trail but not at the same time Many year ago I have had a trouble and similar than yours, a Q202 duplexer refuse to work properly and my final approach was to replace all the N type T connectors by new one, good one, silver plated with real Mil spec and our problem disappear. Some T adaptor use a little spring in between the line to do contact on the center pin of the T, these type are so cheap and they are made by Provo. (Please, NEVER USE THAT KIND OF ... ) I hope this help you a little bit... 73 Eric VE2VXT / VE7YBC _ De : Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Kent Chong Envoyé : 10 mars 2010 07:12 À : Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Objet : Re: [Repeater-Builder] Noise Level on a Duplexer Dear Eric, Thank you for your mail. Yes, we found that the interconnect T-Join between two system is heated up. Could we just cool down the T-Join for there is other way to solve this issue? Best Regards, Kent --- On Wed, 10/3/10, Eric Lowell elowell9...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Eric Lowell elowell9...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Noise Level on a Duplexer To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, 10 March, 2010, 8:54 PM Kent, I have seen this sort of problem before in a simaler application. I believe that your duplexer may have a bad internal connection, possibly at a fingerstock contact. In my case the problem was solved by replacing the duplexer. I believe the problem was caused by tuning the duplexer under power rather than with a network analyser. This occured many years ago, so my memory may be faulty. Best Regards de Eric (W1EL) Eric Lowell Eastern Maine Electronics Inc. 48 Loon Road Wesley ME 04686 eme@starband. net www.satnetmaine. com 207-210-7469 _ From: Kent Chong kentchongkm@ yahoo.com. sg To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 10:31:30 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Noise Level on a Duplexer Dear Joe, Yes, we have observed the signal with a spectrum analyser. It is a broadband noise covering our entire TETRA band. Yes, the transmitter is keyed up continually. Regarding oscillation, what circuitry will develop the oscillation in 3 days? We are thinking about the heat problem too, as heat may be developed overtime. Best Regards, Kent --- On Tue, 9/3/10, Joe k1ike_m...@snet. net wrote: From: Joe k1ike_m...@snet. net Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Noise Level on a Duplexer To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Tuesday, 9 March, 2010, 8:52 PM Hello Kent, Have you looked at the noise on a spectrum analyzer? Is is broadbanded noise, or is it just on your receiver frequencies? If it is only on specific frequencies, is it frequency stable or does it drift around? Also, do any of your transmitters stay constantly keyed up? I'm wondering if something external to your system is oscillating. Your signals may be causing it to go into self-oscillation. When you shut your system off it stops. This is just a guess right now. 73, Joe, K1ike http://sg.rd. yahoo.com/ sg/mail/domainch oice/mail/ http://sg.rd.yahoo.com/sg/mail/domainchoice/mail/signature/*http:/mail.prom otions.yahoo.com/newdomains/sg/ signature/ *http://mail. promotions. yahoo.com/ newdomains/ sg/ _ Get your new Email address! http://sg.rd.yahoo.com/sg/mail/domainchoice/mail/signature/*http:/mail.prom otions.yahoo.com/newdomains/sg/ Grab the Email name you've always wanted before someone else does! _ New http://sg.rd.yahoo.com/sg/mail/domainchoice/mail/signature/*http:/mail.prom otions.yahoo.com/newdomains/sg/ Email names for you! Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail. Hurry before someone else does! __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4932 (20100310) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4932 (20100310) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4932 (20100310) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Dual receivers on one antenna for RX only site-cable length
In all of the discussion on cable lengths between a T and cavities to split to receivers, I'm wondering if the loop length inside of each cavity is to be included in cable lengths. It seems it always is included when calculating cavity interconnect cables on a duplexer, for example, but has not been mentioned in this thread. If loop length IS to be included, what is the assumed velocity factor of a cavity loop? Laryn K8TVZ
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna Phasing Question
As far as phasing the antennas around the tower, it can't be done. Well it can but you will end up with more nulls and a worse pattern than you started with. The problem is that most signals will arrive at more than one antenna. Because they are different distances apart to the mobile there will be a time difference between the two. So you say ok, I will just make the phasing harness that same length as the antennas are apart. That would work great for one specific direction. But what happens when that mobile moves to a new azimuth location? Then there will not be the same distance to him between the two antennas as there was when you made the phasing harness. Now you have a new time difference between arriving signals but you have the same length phasing lines. The result is that the combined signals are no longer in phase so you have less gain. If the two signals fall out of phase then they will cancel. You have a big null in the pattern there. 73 Gary K4FMX -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of afa5tp Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:31 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna Phasing Question Hello Folks I have three (3) Antel [BCD 80010] 806-900 mHz vertical antennae that I would like to mount on the three legs of my tower for omni pattern (Rec. only). Several questions come to mind. 1.) At the rated frequency, how many inches should the side arm place the ant. from the tower? 2.)What would be the best way to phase the antennae? I have a Andrews three port Splitter, and will use LDF4-50A for feedline. I would suspect the length of the pigtail from each antenna to splitter is going to be critical...or not, for receive only? BTW..How good of an antenna is the Antel BCD 80010? Many thanks for any guidance and wisdom. Tim Hardy W7TRH/AFA0TP Vashon Is. Wa. Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Fw: FCC RO Involving the Amateur 70cm Band
i picked your reply to keep the topic going atv down here in florida in the space coast has been chased off up to 900 mhz there is a real good reason for this the destruct sequencer uses freqs below the amateur bands on uhf the mars probes and oher deep space projects also use uhf 431mhz? for communication you would think the FCC would have learned to just tell these idiots to use better freqs like 900 or above a gig they cant be bothered to allocate for anyone the fcc is in total chaos ...whats new? Revised restrictions on 70 cm bear repeating (Nov 8, 2005) -- In 2004, a revised Footnote US7 in Part 2.106 of the Code of Federal Regulations went info effect, further expanding the 50 W maximum output power restriction in place for the 420-450 MHz band in the US Southwest. (The applicable Part 97 Amateur Service rule is §97.303, which incorporates §2.106 by reference.) In talking to people at hamfests and other Amateur Radio meetings, I've found that very few people are aware of this rule, says Bill Kauffman, W5YEJ, of the New Mexico Frequency Coordinating Committee. While the previous version of §2.106(a), essentially covered the White Sands Missile Range area of New Mexico, language effective as of January 2004 expanded it to include all of New Mexico and Texas lying west of 104° W. The 70 cm band is a shared allocation in the US, and federal government users are primary. Amateur Radio, as a secondary occupant, may not cause interference to primary government stations and must tolerate any interference from government stations. Kauffman explains that the FCC acted at the request of the National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) to protect sensitive receivers at various fixed and mobile locations on military bases. The 50 W restriction continues to apply to all of Arizona and Florida as well as parts of several other states, including California, Nevada, Massachusetts, Alaska, North Dakota, Alabama, Georgia and South Carolina. Exceptions to the power limit must be expressly authorized by the FCC after mutual agreement, on a case-by-case basis, between the FCC District Director in the applicable district and the Military Area Frequency Coordinator at the applicable military base. Link to this item --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, DCFluX dcf...@... wrote: Until they start bringing up ATV repeaters, The common input frequencies are 439.25, 434.0, 433.25, 427.25 and 421.25. Now, see the channel assignments for the analog video? Since the video carrier is 1.25 MHz above the bottom of each channel, we can predict where most of the energy is going to fall: 437.25, 443.25 431.25, in descending order of occupancy. If your input isn't near one of those frequencies, you're probably never going to hear from one. Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] spectra 900 mhz radio looking for feedback
im not gonna bother with it i got it to the point where it needs programming but cant be bothered with it its too old after checking with batlabs , i just havent found a good feel for another brand I would drop the money for a kenwood tk981 anyone use this radio ? thanks for your opinions i need something easier to program that uses more recent hardware and software
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Dual receivers on one antenna for RX only site
Well yes the T is sort of a magical device that makes the OTHER SIDE of the T disappear electrically. Actually it is not the T itself that does the job (that is just where IT happens) but it is the quarter wave length cables that perform the magic! Without the quarter wave length cables between the T and each set of cavities the duplexer would not work! That is what provides the 50 ohm isolation between tx and rx cans so the feed line still sees 50 ohms. The quarter wave cable effectively disconnects the transmitter from the feed line at the T (at the receive frequency). The quarter wave cable on the receive side of the T effectively disconnects the receive side from the feed line (at the transmit frequency). Without doing this each would load the other down and there would not be 50 ohms at the antenna port of the T. Once you are on the other side of the T (the antenna port) the feed line length has no effect on the duplexer operation. All that the quarter wave lines do on the duplexer side of the T are to give isolation to the opposite side (tx-rx) so each does not short out the feed line. A similar thing happens between can cables in a duplexer but rather than using them for isolation they are used to enhance the notch of each can by presenting a high impedance at each cans T from the previous cavity. Working with a high impedance is easier to notch out than a low impedance. The notch in the first cavity presents a short (low impedance) at the unwanted frequency and 50 ohms at the wanted frequency. By coupling the next cavity with a quarter wave length cable (at the unwanted frequency) that short is transformed to a quite high impedance at the next cavity while at the same time the wanted signal being at 50 ohms is passed to the next cavity where it sees 50 ohms and goes on its way unatenuated. But we are left with the high impedance at the unwanted frequency that was transformed by the quarter wave cable. The second cavity notch is also tuned to the unwanted frequency which it pulls down to a short (low impedance) to give further attenuation. When I say the notch presents a short it is not really a short but a very low impedance of say a few ohms. But by having the unwanted source impedance high rather than at 50 ohms it is much easier to pull the high impedance down with the few ohms short circuit than it would be if we were working at 50 ohms for the unwanted. It works like a voltage divider between the two impedances. The higher the source is (from previous cavity) to the short the more loss there will be which is just what we are looking for. In the case of the quarter wave cable to the T on the output of the duplexer we want to transform the low impedance up to a very high impedance at the T so that it does not load the circuit at that point on that frequency. 73 Gary K4FMX _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dan Hancock Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:50 PM To: repeater builders Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Dual receivers on one antenna for RX only site One thing was missed regarding cable lengths. The loops in the cans are part of the equation for figuring the 1/4 wave length. I've seen that discussed here many times in postings related to inter-cable lengths on duplexers. But the 1/4 wave length issue only applies to the inter-cabling between the cans. It is my understanding that the antenna to duplexer lengths are irrelevant since the T connector and the rest of the feedline are all part of the equation. It's not like the T is some magical device that makes the rest of the feedline disappear electrically. The only time length might be a problem is if the entire feedline happens to be a resonant length. If by some chance that happens, then changing the jumper a couple of inches will clear that. Dan N8DJP Posted by: n...@no6b.com http://us.mc1104.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=n...@no6b.com n...@no6b.com http://us.mc1104.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=n...@no6b.com no6b Date: Tue Mar 9, 2010 8:29 pm ((PST)) At 3/9/2010 20:12, you wrote: OK, question... If you put a cable which is 1/4-wavelength at VHF between the T and the UHF cavity, it's 3/4-wavelength at UHF. Since any odd multiple of a quarter wavelength will invert the impedance, what will this really accomplish on the UHF cavity side? Doesn't matter at UHF, since the cavity looks like (hopefully something close to) 50 + j0 ohms @ UHF, so the cable length has no effect (other than plain ol' cable loss) @ UHF. At VHF, the short at the UHF cavity connector (I'll take Gary's word that it looks like a short off-resonance, though to be sure you'd want to put the can on a VNA to get the actual phase angle at the connector) needs to be transformed to an open at the T so it has no effect VHF. The short-to-open transformation @ VHF is accomplished with a 1/4 wavelength of coax @ VHF. The
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna Phasing Question
I have three (3) Antel [BCD 80010] 806-900 mHz vertical antennae that I would like to mount on the three legs of my tower for omni pattern (Rec. only). Several questions come to mind. 1.) At the rated frequency, how many inches should the side arm place the ant. from the tower? 2.)What would be the best way to phase the antennae? I have a Andrews three port Splitter, and will use LDF4-50A for feedline. I would suspect the length of the pigtail from each antenna to splitter is going to be critical...or not, for receive only? Any time you start to try to phase omni antennas like you're describing, you're going to end up with nothing like the omni pattern you're hoping to achieve. You'll have deep nulls all over the place, it's just a bad idea. If you were willing to run the three antennas to three separate feedlines and feed three separate receivers and vote between them, that would make more sense, but passively combining the three antennas into one feedline is going to yield extremely disappointing results. You're better off with a single omni and eating whatever tower nulls you end up with... BTW..How good of an antenna is the Antel BCD 80010? I'm using a BCD87010, which is the 870-960 MHz 10 dBd omni with the standard 1.25 degrees of downtilt on a ham repeater in Philly. It works well and is built well. Bought it from Tessco a few years ago. Receive performance is impaired by all of the Part 15 junk, but that's not the fault of the antenna. The BCD800 series is 806-900 MHz; I don't think I'd want to use it in the ham band if that's your intention, I'd get an 870 series. --- Jeff WN3A
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna Phasing Question
Everyone who voiced an opinion. I see the error of my ways! I shall use only (1) antenna! Just want to rec. a better signal from a 800 trunking transmitter, about 30 mi. distant. Thanks guys, for setting me straight! Best Regards, Tim Hardy W7TRH/AFA0TP Vashon Is. Wa. - Original Message - From: Jeff DePolo j...@broadsci.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 10:50:38 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna Phasing Question I have three (3) Antel [BCD 80010] 806-900 mHz vertical antennae that I would like to mount on the three legs of my tower for omni pattern (Rec. only). Several questions come to mind. 1.) At the rated frequency, how many inches should the side arm place the ant. from the tower? 2.)What would be the best way to phase the antennae? I have a Andrews three port Splitter, and will use LDF4-50A for feedline. I would suspect the length of the pigtail from each antenna to splitter is going to be critical...or not, for receive only? Any time you start to try to phase omni antennas like you're describing, you're going to end up with nothing like the omni pattern you're hoping to achieve. You'll have deep nulls all over the place, it's just a bad idea. If you were willing to run the three antennas to three separate feedlines and feed three separate receivers and vote between them, that would make more sense, but passively combining the three antennas into one feedline is going to yield extremely disappointing results. You're better off with a single omni and eating whatever tower nulls you end up with... BTW..How good of an antenna is the Antel BCD 80010? I'm using a BCD87010, which is the 870-960 MHz 10 dBd omni with the standard 1.25 degrees of downtilt on a ham repeater in Philly. It works well and is built well. Bought it from Tessco a few years ago. Receive performance is impaired by all of the Part 15 junk, but that's not the fault of the antenna. The BCD800 series is 806-900 MHz; I don't think I'd want to use it in the ham band if that's your intention, I'd get an 870 series. --- Jeff WN3A
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Dual receivers on one antenna for RX only site
When I say the notch presents a short it is not really a short but a very low impedance of say a few ohms. But by having the unwanted source impedance high rather than at 50 ohms it is much easier to pull the high impedance down with the few ohms short circuit than it would be if we were working at 50 ohms for the unwanted. It works like a voltage divider between the two impedances. The higher the source is (from previous cavity) to the short the more loss there will be which is just what we are looking for. Your use of the voltage divider description is probably the best way to explain the effect, and shows why having the correct intra-cavity cable length is important for getting the maximum rejection. Using exactly the right cable length between two cavity filters will give somewhere around 5 or 6 dB of additional rejection (i.e. if the cavities individually afforded 40 dB of isolation, when cascaded with the right cable length you'll get about 85 dB total). If you use exactly the wrong cable length (i.e. if you're off by a quarter-wave), the combined isolation will be LESS than that of the cavities individually; a good indication that you have the wrong cable length is when you can't get the notches to overlay at the same frequency (often the notches will look like they're chasing each other on the VNA as you adjust them). Between the right and wrong cable lengths you'll end up with a net isolation somewhere between the two extremes. Assuming the cavities individually present a good match at the pass frequency, varying the interconnecting cable length between two cascaded filters will not affect the insertion loss or return loss. In contrast, the cable length from the tee to the first cavity on each side of the duplexer primarily affects only the insertion loss through the duplexer, and the return loss from antenna to/from either Tx or Rx port, unlike the cable between adjacent cavities which affects the isolation (rejection) afforded by that half of the duplexer. A while back I posted a blurb that demonstrates the effects of using the wrong cable length between cascaded filters. I don't know if that made it to the web site? --- Jeff WN3A
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Dual receivers on one antenna for RX only site
Actually, Gary, you are 180 degrees out. On a pass cavity, off frequency signals see a very high impedence path, an open not a short. If your version were true you could never use pass cans as a duplexer since both sets of cans together would show a short to EVERYTHING. The T connector is just an impedence bump to the radio equipment, nothing more. It is not an active device, like a preamp would be, that makes the rest of the feedline disappear. He can use the T connector and any random length of cable to connect, as long as the whole feedline doesn't show up as a resonant length. Dan N8DJP Posted by: Gary Schafer gascha...@comcast.net k4fmx Date: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:47 am ((PST)) Well yes the T is sort of a magical device that makes the OTHER SIDE of the T disappear electrically. Actually it is not the T itself that does the job (that is just where IT happens) but it is the quarter wave length cables that perform the magic! Without the quarter wave length cables between the T and each set of cavities the duplexer would not work! That is what provides the 50 ohm isolation between tx and rx cans so the feed line still sees 50 ohms. The quarter wave cable effectively disconnects the transmitter from the feed line at the T (at the receive frequency). The quarter wave cable on the receive side of the T effectively disconnects the receive side from the feed line (at the transmit frequency). Without doing this each would load the other down and there would not be 50 ohms at the antenna port of the T. Once you are on the other side of the T (the antenna port) the feed line length has no effect on the duplexer operation. All that the quarter wave lines do on the duplexer side of the T are to give isolation to the opposite side (tx-rx) so each does not short out the feed line. A similar thing happens between can cables in a duplexer but rather than using them for isolation they are used to enhance the notch of each can by presenting a high impedance at each cans T from the previous cavity. Working with a high impedance is easier to notch out than a low impedance. The notch in the first cavity presents a short (low impedance) at the unwanted frequency and 50 ohms at the wanted frequency. By coupling the next cavity with a quarter wave length cable (at the unwanted frequency) that short is transformed to a quite high impedance at the next cavity while at the same time the wanted signal being at 50 ohms is passed to the next cavity where it sees 50 ohms and goes on its way unatenuated. But we are left with the high impedance at the unwanted frequency that was transformed by the quarter wave cable. The second cavity notch is also tuned to the unwanted frequency which it pulls down to a short (low impedance) to give further attenuation. When I say the notch presents a short it is not really a short but a very low impedance of say a few ohms. But by having the unwanted source impedance high rather than at 50 ohms it is much easier to pull the high impedance down with the few ohms short circuit than it would be if we were working at 50 ohms for the unwanted. It works like a voltage divider between the two impedances. The higher the source is (from previous cavity) to the short the more loss there will be which is just what we are looking for. In the case of the quarter wave cable to the T on the output of the duplexer we want to transform the low impedance up to a very high impedance at the T so that it does not load the circuit at that point on that frequency. 73 Gary K4FMX
[Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon
I ordered a Pion and Simon PSE 508-3 controller and have not received it yet here in Florida. They don't answer E mails and I can't find a telephone number for that company. Does anyone know their tel number ? Are they still in business ? 541-273-8958 does not work..This is the number shown on Paypal. 73 John VE3AMZ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon
John If you paid them on paypal, and it hasnt been 45 days yet since the transaction, institute a paypal chargeback. You can do this if you havent been given any valid tracking number on your item. This should get someone's attention on the other end. If after 30 days (i think) paypal will credit you your expense. its called seller protection. Paypal has a toll free number that works from Canada, so give them a call for details. Good luck Ian VA2IR At 03:14 PM 3/10/2010, you wrote: I ordered a Pion and Simon PSE 508-3 controller and have not received it yet here in Florida. They don't answer E mails and I can't find a telephone number for that company. Does anyone know their tel number ? Are they still in business ? 541-273-8958 does not work..This is the number shown on Paypal. 73 John VE3AMZ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.436 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2734 - Release Date: 03/10/10 07:33:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon
Might try contacting their Web Site Hosting contact: Registrant: Pion Simon Electronics P.O. Box 1039 Keno, Oregon 97627 US Domain name: PIONSIMON.COM Administrative Contact: Network, CVC http://www.domaintools.com/registrant-search/?email=d57d9ad35e132a196a7623f89cdef5ff 2250 South 6th Street Klamath Falls, Oregon 97601 US (541) 884-5488X21Fax: (541) 884-8943 Technical Contact: Network, CVC http://www.domaintools.com/registrant-search/?email=d57d9ad35e132a196a7623f89cdef5ff 2250 South 6th Street Klamath Falls, Oregon 97601 US (541) 884-5488X21Fax: (541) 884-8943 Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC. Record last updated on 21-Jul-2008. Record expires on 26-Jul-2010. Record created on 26-Jul-2000. Registrar Domain Name Help Center: http://tucowsdomains.com/help/ Domain servers in listed order: CVC5.CVC.NET QICLAB.SCN.RAIN.COM Domain status: clientDeleteProhibited clientTransferProhibited clientUpdateProhibited On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 1:20 PM, va...@securenet.net wrote: John If you paid them on paypal, and it hasnt been 45 days yet since the transaction, institute a paypal chargeback. You can do this if you havent been given any valid tracking number on your item. This should get someone's attention on the other end. If after 30 days (i think) paypal will credit you your expense. its called seller protection. Paypal has a toll free number that works from Canada, so give them a call for details. Good luck Ian VA2IR At 03:14 PM 3/10/2010, you wrote: I ordered a Pion and Simon PSE 508-3 controller and have not received it yet here in Florida. They don't answer E mails and I can't find a telephone number for that company. Does anyone know their tel number ? Are they still in business ? 541-273-8958 does not work..This is the number shown on Paypal. 73 John VE3AMZ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.436 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2734 - Release Date: 03/10/10 07:33:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: HAM Mototrbo Systems
Along those lines? How many groups of users will the standard MotoTRBO repeater support in digital mode? I know it will do 2 simultaneously, but how many overall? Also, I know it will support a single NBFM user - can a CTCSS panel be attached to it? Thanks, Joe M. wb6wui wrote: Dan, TRBO-6 network website is: www.trbo.info and has some basic info for getting repeaters onto the network. Or checkout the yahoo group: mototrbousa ...Mike, wb6...@gmail.com --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Dan Blasberg ka8...@... wrote: Mike, In the DC area there is currently one UHF machine and about 5-10 amateurs playing with MOTOTRBO. I would be interested to know what other areas are using for setting or are they leaving everything in the default setting? Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2734 - Release Date: 03/10/10 02:33:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: HAM Mototrbo Systems
Thanks for the info Mike. Dan KA8YPY On Mar 10, 2010, at 12:19 PM, wb6wui wrote: Dan, TRBO-6 network website is: www.trbo.info and has some basic info for getting repeaters onto the network. Or checkout the yahoo group: mototrbousa ...Mike, wb6...@gmail.com --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Dan Blasberg ka8...@... wrote: Mike, In the DC area there is currently one UHF machine and about 5-10 amateurs playing with MOTOTRBO. I would be interested to know what other areas are using for setting or are they leaving everything in the default setting? Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon
Was it bought on eBay? Post the item number / link. I'd like to see this. Ian has a good point, although its called BUYER protection. Seller protection works the same way, but for sellers. Just my OCD kicking in. John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 - Original Message - From: va...@securenet.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon John If you paid them on paypal, and it hasnt been 45 days yet since the transaction, institute a paypal chargeback. You can do this if you havent been given any valid tracking number on your item. This should get someone's attention on the other end. If after 30 days (i think) paypal will credit you your expense. its called seller protection. Paypal has a toll free number that works from Canada, so give them a call for details. Good luck Ian VA2IR At 03:14 PM 3/10/2010, you wrote: I ordered a Pion and Simon PSE 508-3 controller and have not received it yet here in Florida. They don't answer E mails and I can't find a telephone number for that company. Does anyone know their tel number ? Are they still in business ? 541-273-8958 does not work..This is the number shown on Paypal. 73 John VE3AMZ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.436 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2734 - Release Date: 03/10/10 07:33:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon
On Wed, 10 Mar 2010, John J. Riddell wrote: I ordered a Pion and Simon PSE 508-3 controller and have not received it yet here in Florida. They don't answer E mails and I can't find a telephone number for that company. Does anyone know their tel number ? Are they still in business ? 541-273-8958 does not work..This is the number shown on Paypal. 73 John VE3AMZ Last time I bought a controller from them, it took a long time to get here, like about a month. But when I ordered one from ICS, the lead time was like 60-90 days. I actually forgot I had ordered it when it showed up. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR Disinformation Analyst
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon
Sorry John. You are correct. In this case buyer protection. I only had to invoke it once years ago. Some doofus refused to ship me my 2 Micor mobile beige speakers after 6 weeks - a big $23. The chargeback got his attention. Ian VA2IR At 04:13 PM 3/10/2010, you wrote: Was it bought on eBay? Post the item number / link. I'd like to see this. Ian has a good point, although its called BUYER protection. Seller protection works the same way, but for sellers. Just my OCD kicking in. John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 - Original Message - From: mailto:va...@securenet.netva...@securenet.net To: mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon John If you paid them on paypal, and it hasnt been 45 days yet since the transaction, institute a paypal chargeback. You can do this if you havent been given any valid tracking number on your item. This should get someone's attention on the other end. If after 30 days (i think) paypal will credit you your expense. its called seller protection. Paypal has a toll free number that works from Canada, so give them a call for details. Good luck Ian VA2IR At 03:14 PM 3/10/2010, you wrote: I ordered a Pion and Simon PSE 508-3 controller and have not received it yet here in Florida. They don't answer E mails and I can't find a telephone number for that company. Does anyone know their tel number ? Are they still in business ? 541-273-8958 does not work..This is the number shown on Paypal. 73 John VE3AMZ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.436 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2734 - Release Date: 03/10/10 07:33:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.436 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2734 - Release Date: 03/10/10 07:33:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] SPECTRA SERVICE MANUAL
At 08:56 PM 03/09/10, you wrote: HEY MEMBERS, DOES ANY MEMBERS HAS A COMPLETE SERVICE MANUAL OF SPECTRA,I HAVE SOMETHING TO TROUBLE HERE IN MY OLD SPECTRA,THANKS BOB HERE IN THE PHILS. Saying Spectra is like saying Ford. There are a lot of other things that need to be asked. There are a lot of different manuals depending on what band, power level and vintage, plus if you had any options like siren, encryption, direct entry keyboard etc. Please post your complete model number, and if present, the ID number. If you have any external plug-in options (siren, DEK) please mention that. Then look here http://www.onfreq.com/syntorx/spectra/manualss.html Mike
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon
It was ordered directly from their web site and paid for by Paypal. John VE3AMZ - Original Message - From: La Rue Communications To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon Was it bought on eBay? Post the item number / link. I'd like to see this. Ian has a good point, although its called BUYER protection. Seller protection works the same way, but for sellers. Just my OCD kicking in. John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 - Original Message - From: va...@securenet.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon John If you paid them on paypal, and it hasnt been 45 days yet since the transaction, institute a paypal chargeback. You can do this if you havent been given any valid tracking number on your item. This should get someone's attention on the other end. If after 30 days (i think) paypal will credit you your expense. its called seller protection. Paypal has a toll free number that works from Canada, so give them a call for details. Good luck Ian VA2IR At 03:14 PM 3/10/2010, you wrote: I ordered a Pion and Simon PSE 508-3 controller and have not received it yet here in Florida. They don't answer E mails and I can't find a telephone number for that company. Does anyone know their tel number ? Are they still in business ? 541-273-8958 does not work..This is the number shown on Paypal. 73 John VE3AMZ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.436 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2734 - Release Date: 03/10/10 07:33:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon
Their web site says: We can be reached by sending mail to one of the addresses listed below: *Postal address:* PO Box 23651, Tigard, OR 97281 *Electronic mail* Al Pion alp...@pionsimon.com Elizabeth Simon easi...@pionsimon.com I use there product and am very happy, especially with the service I received from Al. Good Luck JIM KA2AJH On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 4:29 PM, John J. Riddell ve3...@earthlink.netwrote: It was ordered directly from their web site and paid for by Paypal. John VE3AMZ - Original Message - *From:* La Rue Communications laruec...@gmail.com *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:13 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon Was it bought on eBay? Post the item number / link. I'd like to see this. Ian has a good point, although its called BUYER protection. Seller protection works the same way, but for sellers. Just my OCD kicking in. John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 - Original Message - *From:* va...@securenet.net *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:20 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon John If you paid them on paypal, and it hasnt been 45 days yet since the transaction, institute a paypal chargeback. You can do this if you havent been given any valid tracking number on your item. This should get someone's attention on the other end. If after 30 days (i think) paypal will credit you your expense. its called seller protection. Paypal has a toll free number that works from Canada, so give them a call for details. Good luck Ian VA2IR At 03:14 PM 3/10/2010, you wrote: I ordered a Pion and Simon PSE 508-3 controller and have not received it yet here in Florida. They don't answer E mails and I can't find a telephone number for that company. Does anyone know their tel number ? Are they still in business ? 541-273-8958 does not work..This is the number shown on Paypal. 73 John VE3AMZ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.436 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2734 - Release Date: 03/10/10 07:33:00 -- Jim Cicirello 181 Stevens Street Wellsville, N.Y. 14895 (585)593-4655
[Repeater-Builder] Re: MSF5000 EPROM Controller
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Mike Morris wa6i...@... wrote: At 02:47 PM 03/07/10, you wrote: Hey folks, Any idea what would make an MSF5000 CLB EPROM controller randomly reset (test lights coming on)? When it's not in self-check mode, it works fine, but roughly every 3 mins, it resets itself. Thanks, Jared One thing that comes to mind is the power supply caps. Go to this page http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/msf/msf-tour.html Scroll down to the paragraph on the Analog Control Tray. Change C702, C706 and C851. C706 is especially troublesome. In fact, these should be looked at, and probably changed before the station goes into amateur service. Mike WA6ILQ I figured that might be it. It kinda stank inside of cap juice. I've since scrubbed the board with dish soap and hot water. Waiting on caps from Mouser right now. Thanks, Jared
[Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR2000 UHF exciter (update)
You are correct Eric. Did put a pig tail on just to see what it would do. 100 watts of spurs and other messy junk. I was thinking of building a filter that could go between the exciter and the PA. Not sure how that would work out tho. Its looking like I have a UHF MSR2000 that is useless at this point. Unless I can find a low spit exciter in hopes that FL101 will tune up. There is a Moto rep in town. Going to look into maybe getting a new filter that will work, and replacing it. Not to many options at this point. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Eric Lemmon wb6...@... wrote: Jason, You definitely should not bypass FL101, because it performs an important function. Although the service manual does not provide any information about tuning FL101, the schematic diagram reveals that it contains four helical resonators that do appear to have tuning slugs which act as variable capacitors. As you have noted, the stock tuning favors the 450-470 MHz band for which the station is designed. I have not done this myself, but perhaps other readers can advise you on the means and method of adjusting FL101 to pass a carrier near 440 MHz. You will likely have to carefully remove the filter cover in order to reach the slugs. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kc7stw Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 8:49 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MSR2000 UHF exciter (update) Hello again. So after messing with the exciter. (last post on this topic the exciter only put out .1 mw) The exciter will put out, 300mw to the input of FL101. This is just a simple tune up. But FL101 blocks the RF 'since it seems to be out of range'. Can the filter be re-build, changed, by passed, and a external filter used, etc? Also, at this point. Anyone have a UHF exciter that will play nice at 440.300 that they want to sell? or trade for a exciter that plays nice in the upper 70cm range? Thanks -Jason
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR2000 UHF exciter (update)
Not knowing what the MSR filter looks like I wonder if you could kludge a Micor exciter filter in there somehow? tom kc7stw wrote: You are correct Eric. Did put a pig tail on just to see what it would do. 100 watts of spurs and other messy junk. I was thinking of building a filter that could go between the exciter and the PA. Not sure how that would work out tho. Its looking like I have a UHF MSR2000 that is useless at this point. Unless I can find a low spit exciter in hopes that FL101 will tune up. There is a Moto rep in town. Going to look into maybe getting a new filter that will work, and replacing it. Not to many options at this point. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Eric Lemmon wb6...@... wrote: Jason, You definitely should not bypass FL101, because it performs an important function. Although the service manual does not provide any information about tuning FL101, the schematic diagram reveals that it contains four helical resonators that do appear to have tuning slugs which act as variable capacitors. As you have noted, the stock tuning favors the 450-470 MHz band for which the station is designed. I have not done this myself, but perhaps other readers can advise you on the means and method of adjusting FL101 to pass a carrier near 440 MHz. You will likely have to carefully remove the filter cover in order to reach the slugs. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kc7stw Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 8:49 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MSR2000 UHF exciter (update) Hello again. So after messing with the exciter. (last post on this topic the exciter only put out .1 mw) The exciter will put out, 300mw to the input of FL101. This is just a simple tune up. But FL101 blocks the RF 'since it seems to be out of range'. Can the filter be re-build, changed, by passed, and a external filter used, etc? Also, at this point. Anyone have a UHF exciter that will play nice at 440.300 that they want to sell? or trade for a exciter that plays nice in the upper 70cm range? Thanks -Jason Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR2000 UHF exciter (update)
Dont know the dimensions of the filter, but perhaps you should try replacing the tunning slugs with brass screws of the same threading that are longer as well. On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Thomas Oliver tsoli...@tir.com wrote: Not knowing what the MSR filter looks like I wonder if you could kludge a Micor exciter filter in there somehow? tom
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon
Thanks, James.but you'll recall that my question was for a phone number. I sent two E mails with no reply..to the address shown... 73 John VE3AMZ - Original Message - From: James Cicirello To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon Their web site says: We can be reached by sending mail to one of the addresses listed below: Postal address: PO Box 23651, Tigard, OR 97281 Electronic mail Al Pion Elizabeth Simon I use there product and am very happy, especially with the service I received from Al. Good Luck JIM KA2AJH On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 4:29 PM, John J. Riddell ve3...@earthlink.net wrote: It was ordered directly from their web site and paid for by Paypal. John VE3AMZ - Original Message - From: La Rue Communications To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon Was it bought on eBay? Post the item number / link. I'd like to see this. Ian has a good point, although its called BUYER protection. Seller protection works the same way, but for sellers. Just my OCD kicking in. John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 - Original Message - From: va...@securenet.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon John If you paid them on paypal, and it hasnt been 45 days yet since the transaction, institute a paypal chargeback. You can do this if you havent been given any valid tracking number on your item. This should get someone's attention on the other end. If after 30 days (i think) paypal will credit you your expense. its called seller protection. Paypal has a toll free number that works from Canada, so give them a call for details. Good luck Ian VA2IR At 03:14 PM 3/10/2010, you wrote: I ordered a Pion and Simon PSE 508-3 controller and have not received it yet here in Florida. They don't answer E mails and I can't find a telephone number for that company. Does anyone know their tel number ? Are they still in business ? 541-273-8958 does not work..This is the number shown on Paypal. 73 John VE3AMZ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.436 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2734 - Release Date: 03/10/10 07:33:00 -- Jim Cicirello 181 Stevens Street Wellsville, N.Y. 14895 (585)593-4655
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon
On Wed, 10 Mar 2010, John J. Riddell wrote: Thanks, James.but you'll recall that my question was for a phone number. I sent two E mails with no reply..to the address shown... Bear in mind that some people don't reply to emails because they are working on whatever spawned the email. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR Disinformation Analyst
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: HAM Mototrbo Systems
On 3/10/2010 1:47 PM, MCH wrote: Along those lines? How many groups of users will the standard MotoTRBO repeater support in digital mode? I know it will do 2 simultaneously, but how many overall? Also, I know it will support a single NBFM user - can a CTCSS panel be attached to it? Thanks, Joe M. I don't know the answer, Joe but I see a problem with the question... Are you talking about how many unique user ID's on a MotoTRBO system, or how many talk groups, or how many repeaters can be linked or...? So now you've had me Googling for an hour, and good ol' Moto and friends haven't bothered to document this level of detail anywhere public, other than mysterious marketing comments like saying, 1000's of users. Sigh. Where's the beef?! Annoying. Page after page of pretty PDF specs, without a single mention of these numbers, all over the place. Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: HAM Mototrbo Systems
Just to clarify, I'm talking about what would be equal to talkgroups. Although it does make me feel better others cannot find the answer either. :-) Joe M. Nate Duehr wrote: On 3/10/2010 1:47 PM, MCH wrote: Along those lines? How many groups of users will the standard MotoTRBO repeater support in digital mode? I know it will do 2 simultaneously, but how many overall? Also, I know it will support a single NBFM user - can a CTCSS panel be attached to it? Thanks, Joe M. I don't know the answer, Joe but I see a problem with the question... Are you talking about how many unique user ID's on a MotoTRBO system, or how many talk groups, or how many repeaters can be linked or...? So now you've had me Googling for an hour, and good ol' Moto and friends haven't bothered to document this level of detail anywhere public, other than mysterious marketing comments like saying, 1000's of users. Sigh. Where's the beef?! Annoying. Page after page of pretty PDF specs, without a single mention of these numbers, all over the place. Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Dual receivers on one antenna for RX only site
At 3/10/2010 11:16, you wrote: Actually, Gary, you are 180 degrees out. On a pass cavity, off frequency signals see a very high impedence path, an open not a short. If your version were true you could never use pass cans as a duplexer since both sets of cans together would show a short to EVERYTHING. I wish I had the VNA data from the pass cavities I measured several years ago when I built a 2-port UHF combiner using them, but they were measured while the pen plotter was connected to the VNA before I wrote a program to convert the Citifile output from the VNA to Excel spreadsheets, so the data was only saved on paper I have no idea where I would've stuffed the plots. But my best recollection is that at the reference plane of the cavities (front surface of the female N or SO-239 connector, they looked fairly close to an open, but not quite - maybe 10 to 15 degrees off of an open, on the inductive side. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: HAM Mototrbo Systems
Hi all, It may a bit out of topic . For increase the coverage of a single site TDMA format repeater. Dual to the time delay from distance . Can we put a power Amp. to do that . Or Add a power Amp . on the FDMA fromat repeater may more , less better ? TNX 73s de VR2XVD On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 9:33 AM, MCH m...@nb.net wrote: Just to clarify, I'm talking about what would be equal to talkgroups. Although it does make me feel better others cannot find the answer either. :-) Joe M. Nate Duehr wrote: On 3/10/2010 1:47 PM, MCH wrote: Along those lines? How many groups of users will the standard MotoTRBO repeater support in digital mode? I know it will do 2 simultaneously, but how many overall? Also, I know it will support a single NBFM user - can a CTCSS panel be attached to it? Thanks, Joe M. I don't know the answer, Joe but I see a problem with the question... Are you talking about how many unique user ID's on a MotoTRBO system, or how many talk groups, or how many repeaters can be linked or...? So now you've had me Googling for an hour, and good ol' Moto and friends haven't bothered to document this level of detail anywhere public, other than mysterious marketing comments like saying, 1000's of users. Sigh. Where's the beef?! Annoying. Page after page of pretty PDF specs, without a single mention of these numbers, all over the place. Nate WY0X -- HKARA website : http://www.hkara.org.hk VR2XVD email : vr2...@yahoo.com,vr2...@gmail.com Please consider the environment before printing the email.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon
John J. Riddell wrote: Thanks, James.but you'll recall that my question was for a phone number. I sent two E mails with no reply..to the address shown... I have sent a message to Al and Elizabeth as well - asking for help here. Maybe your messages are getting caught in a SPAM filter or something. This is not their normal practice and I can only assume your messages are not getting delivered. I'll let you know when I get their reply. Kevin Custer List Owner
[Repeater-Builder] Sinclair 210C8 questions
Our club has two 210C8 antennas, one on a 48 triangular tower and one in a barn being stored. 1- Both antennas seem to have a problem with a failed T connection where the upper and lower segments join. Any hints to effect a good repair without butchering the antenna. 2- We would like to hook up both either: - one above the other with an appropriate phasing harness - or the two beside each other on the sides of the tower either on the corner or the flat. I'm not sure this would be a situation without a lot of pattern issues. 73 Steve VE6VS
[Repeater-Builder] Ot: Need a Power Supply
Hi Group, I am need of a Micor Power supply, I have a new style micor supply that voltage spiked upon powering see 32-40 volts and than 11.1 volts. If anyone has a idea how to remedy this problem or has a ferro-resident supply I would be intersted. Also in need of a Micor audio squelch board due to power supply issue. used to have several but now in use. Thanks in advance, Ryan n3ssl
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon
From their web page 541-273-8958 John J. Riddell wrote: Thanks, James.but you'll recall that my question was for a phone number. I sent two E mails with no reply..to the address shown... 73 John VE3AMZ - Original Message - *From:* James Cicirello mailto:ka2...@gmail.com *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, March 10, 2010 5:50 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon Their web site says: We can be reached by sending mail to one of the addresses listed below: *Postal address:* PO Box 23651, Tigard, OR 97281 *Electronic mail* Al Pion mailto:alp...@pionsimon.com Elizabeth Simon mailto:easi...@pionsimon.com I use there product and am very happy, especially with the service I received from Al. Good Luck JIM KA2AJH On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 4:29 PM, John J. Riddell ve3...@earthlink.net mailto:ve3...@earthlink.net wrote: It was ordered directly from their web site and paid for by Paypal. John VE3AMZ - Original Message - *From:* La Rue Communications mailto:laruec...@gmail.com *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:13 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon Was it bought on eBay? Post the item number / link. I'd like to see this. Ian has a good point, although its called BUYER protection. Seller protection works the same way, but for sellers. Just my OCD kicking in. John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 - Original Message - *From:* va...@securenet.net mailto:va...@securenet.net *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:20 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon John If you paid them on paypal, and it hasnt been 45 days yet since the transaction, institute a paypal chargeback. You can do this if you havent been given any valid tracking number on your item. This should get someone's attention on the other end. If after 30 days (i think) paypal will credit you your expense. its called seller protection. Paypal has a toll free number that works from Canada, so give them a call for details. Good luck Ian VA2IR At 03:14 PM 3/10/2010, you wrote: I ordered a Pion and Simon PSE 508-3 controller and have not received it yet here in Florida. They don't answer E mails and I can't find a telephone number for that company. Does anyone know their tel number ? Are they still in business ? 541-273-8958 does not work..This is the number shown on Paypal. 73 John VE3AMZ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com http://www.avg.com/ Version: 8.5.436 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2734 - Release Date: 03/10/10 07:33:00 -- Jim Cicirello 181 Stevens Street Wellsville, N.Y. 14895 (585)593-4655 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon
They don't live there anymore (Area Code 541 is Southern Oregon)... -Original Message- From: Dennis Wieck dwi...@att.net Sent: Mar 10, 2010 9:22 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon From their web page 541-273-8958 John J. Riddell wrote: Thanks, James.but you'll recall that my question was for a phone number. I sent two E mails with no reply..to the address shown... 73 John VE3AMZ - Original Message - *From:* James Cicirello mailto:ka2...@gmail.com *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, March 10, 2010 5:50 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon Their web site says: We can be reached by sending mail to one of the addresses listed below: *Postal address:* PO Box 23651, Tigard, OR 97281 *Electronic mail* Al Pion mailto:alp...@pionsimon.com Elizabeth Simon mailto:easi...@pionsimon.com I use there product and am very happy, especially with the service I received from Al. Good Luck JIM KA2AJH On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 4:29 PM, John J. Riddell ve3...@earthlink.net mailto:ve3...@earthlink.net wrote: It was ordered directly from their web site and paid for by Paypal. John VE3AMZ - Original Message - *From:* La Rue Communications mailto:laruec...@gmail.com *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:13 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon Was it bought on eBay? Post the item number / link. I'd like to see this. Ian has a good point, although its called BUYER protection. Seller protection works the same way, but for sellers. Just my OCD kicking in. John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 - Original Message - *From:* va...@securenet.net mailto:va...@securenet.net *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:20 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pion and Simon John If you paid them on paypal, and it hasnt been 45 days yet since the transaction, institute a paypal chargeback. You can do this if you havent been given any valid tracking number on your item. This should get someone's attention on the other end. If after 30 days (i think) paypal will credit you your expense. its called seller protection. Paypal has a toll free number that works from Canada, so give them a call for details. Good luck Ian VA2IR At 03:14 PM 3/10/2010, you wrote: I ordered a Pion and Simon PSE 508-3 controller and have not received it yet here in Florida. They don't answer E mails and I can't find a telephone number for that company. Does anyone know their tel number ? Are they still in business ? 541-273-8958 does not work..This is the number shown on Paypal. 73 John VE3AMZ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com http://www.avg.com/ Version: 8.5.436 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2734 - Release Date: 03/10/10 07:33:00 -- Jim Cicirello 181 Stevens Street Wellsville, N.Y. 14895 (585)593-4655 Yahoo! Groups Links
