Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking two shared repeaters
Hi again Jim With your thinking below .My remote private site should work in the same sort of way as what you are suggesting except while s2 has a signal on it it sends this signal to both s2 users and back to s1 repeater at the same time.In return the signal works the same as your first 3-5 lines below.I only require one link radio on the remote sites and not one at each end of the link .However with our open we have a separate link repeater paired with the s1 (explained better in my response to skip) so the link system works at the same time as the central site repeater.In the open system we don't link the TX frequencies directly from site to site .I.e.(s1tx to s2rx)(s2tx to s1rx) due to a error in frequency allocation,which will be fixed and which we expect to link directly with our private system as we wont get the sites frequencies licensed so close together next time Thank You, Ian Wells, Kerinvale Comaudio, 361 Camboon Road.Biloela.4715 www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au ---Original Message--- From: Jim Brown Date: 4/01/2008 8:25:48 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking two shared repeaters Ian, here is my thinking. When site 1 has a signal on the repeater input, the signal from site 2 is blocked because of the circuit that gives precedence to the local site repeater receiver. When a site 1 user unkeys, there will be no CTCSS tone coming back from site 2 to key the site 1 repeater. The combination of the precedence circuit and CTCSS requirement for both repeaters keeps the system from locking up. The same circuit would be required between the receivers at site 2 as in site 1. And both repeaters would have to be configured to only transmit a CTCSS tone when a user keys the input, not during the squelch tail. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- Kerincom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I will have a look at the circuit and see .The problem we found with link setup 1 upper design is we could not have one link radio on one site and one on another site as when the site 2 link stops transmitting and rx site 1 tail retrips site 2 and keeps them on .Another problem was while s1 link in transmitting s2 receiver is trying to pick up the incoming signal and s1 link transmission at the same time . __ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/ _ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking two shared repeaters
I think I understand what you are saying Ian. Your #2 repeater has it's input frequency on the #1 repeater's output frequency. That way you would only require one extra receiver (on a third frequency) and precedence circuit at the #1 repeater site. The #2 site would have to have it's output on the third frequency to make it all work. I think you have simplified the system down to the minimum required hardware to make it work. CTCSS transmitted only while an input is present would round out the system requirement. Your multi-user CTCSS controllers should keep things private as different users use the different tones. Sometimes thinking outside the box can make for a real worthwhile reduction in hardware. 73- Jim W5ZIT --- Kerincom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi again Jim With your thinking below .My remote private site should work in the same sort of way as what you are suggesting except while s2 has a signal on it it sends this signal to both s2 users and back to s1 repeater at the same time.In return the signal works the same as your first 3-5 lines below.I only require one link radio on the remote sites and not one at each end of the link .However with our open we have a separate link repeater paired with the s1 (explained better in my response to skip) so the link system works at the same time as the central site repeater.In the open system we don't link the TX frequencies directly from site to site .I.e.(s1tx to s2rx)(s2tx to s1rx) due to a error in frequency allocation,which will be fixed and which we expect to link directly with our private system as we wont get the sites frequencies licensed so close together next time Thank You, Ian Wells, Kerinvale Comaudio, 361 Camboon Road.Biloela.4715 www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au ---Original Message--- From: Jim Brown Date: 4/01/2008 8:25:48 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking two shared repeaters Ian, here is my thinking. When site 1 has a signal on the repeater input, the signal from site 2 is blocked because of the circuit that gives precedence to the local site repeater receiver. When a site 1 user unkeys, there will be no CTCSS tone coming back from site 2 to key the site 1 repeater. The combination of the precedence circuit and CTCSS requirement for both repeaters keeps the system from locking up. The same circuit would be required between the receivers at site 2 as in site 1. And both repeaters would have to be configured to only transmit a CTCSS tone when a user keys the input, not during the squelch tail. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- Kerincom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I will have a look at the circuit and see .The problem we found with link setup 1 upper design is we could not have one link radio on one site and one on another site as when the site 2 link stops transmitting and rx site 1 tail retrips site 2 and keeps them on .Another problem was while s1 link in transmitting s2 receiver is trying to pick up the incoming signal and s1 link transmission at the same time . Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking two shared repeaters
Each of my repeaters operate on different frequencies .e.g. Repeater #1 rx 483.9mhz and TX on 489.1mhz 5.2 meg split. #2 may be on rx 490mhz and TX on 495.2mhz Correction my #2 repeater link receiver is tuned to #1 output frequency (489 1mhz) .and transmitt on the #1 input frequency (483.9mhz). Yes each on my clients on the private have a separate ctcss frequency assigned to their radios for TX and rx so they can only hear their own cars. Thank You, Ian Wells, Kerinvale Comaudio, 361 Camboon Road.Biloela.4715 www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au ---Original Message--- From: Jim Brown Date: 5/01/2008 12:36:06 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking two shared repeaters I think I understand what you are saying Ian. Your #2 repeater has it's input frequency on the #1 repeater's output frequency. That way you would only require one extra receiver (on a third frequency) and precedence circuit at the #1 repeater site. The #2 site would have to have it's output on the third frequency to make it all work. I think you have simplified the system down to the minimum required hardware to make it work. CTCSS Transmitted only while an input is present would round out the system requirement. Your multi-user CTCSS controllers should keep things private as different users use the different tones. Sometimes thinking outside the box can make for a real worthwhile reduction in hardware. 73- Jim W5ZIT --- Kerincom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi again Jim With your thinking below .My remote private site should work in the same sort of way as what you are suggesting except while s2 has a signal on it it sends this signal to both s2 users and back to s1 repeater at the same time.In return the signal works the same as your first 3-5 lines below.I only require one link radio on the remote sites and not one at each end of the link .However with our open we have a separate link repeater paired with the s1 (explained better in my response to skip) so the link system works at the same time as the central site repeater.In the open system we don't link the TX frequencies directly from site to site .I.e.(s1tx to s2rx)(s2tx to s1rx) due to a error in frequency allocation,which will be fixed and which we expect to link directly with our private system as we wont get the sites frequencies licensed so close together next time Thank You, Ian Wells, Kerinvale Comaudio, 361 Camboon Road.Biloela.4715 www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au ---Original Message--- From: Jim Brown Date: 4/01/2008 8:25:48 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking two shared repeaters Ian, here is my thinking. When site 1 has a signal on the repeater input, the signal from site 2 is blocked because of the circuit that gives precedence to the local site repeater receiver. When a site 1 user unkeys, there will be no CTCSS tone coming back from site 2 to key the site 1 repeater. The combination of the precedence circuit and CTCSS requirement for both repeaters keeps the system from locking up. The same circuit would be required between the receivers at site 2 as in site 1. And both repeaters would have to be configured to only transmit a CTCSS tone when a user keys the input, not during the squelch tail. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- Kerincom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I will have a look at the circuit and see .The problem we found with link setup 1 upper design is we could not have one link radio on one site and one on another site as when the site 2 link stops transmitting and rx site 1 tail retrips site 2 and keeps them on .Another problem was while s1 link in transmitting s2 receiver is trying to pick up the incoming signal and s1 link transmission at the same time . __ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking two shared repeaters
We have used a similar, and unique way of linking multiple sites here in NZ, Utilising four sites and multiple CTCSS, We utilise One repeater per site, Vertex Standard VXR-9000, programmed to scan all four frequencies (That site repeater input frequency, and the other three repeater sites output (TX) frequencies. Once valid activity has been detected, TX is on the single allocated frequency for that site location. The VXR-9000 has a tone panel integral to the repeater, so can decode/encode 16 CTCSS or DCS codes. Needless to say frequency co-ordination is very important, as each repeater site is also listening on the output frequencies as well. To make this work for our client, separate TX and RX antennas were required, as well as some clever filter engineering. What I am saying is that a repeater that has multiple channels, and that can also scan, can replace your link receiver in some instances. All the best for 08' Cheers _ Gareth Bennett This email is confidential, if you received this message in error, or you are not the intended recipient, please return it to the sender and destroy any copies. Thank you. - Original Message - From: Kerincom To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking two shared repeaters Each of my repeaters operate on different frequencies .e.g. Repeater #1 rx 483.9mhz and TX on 489.1mhz 5.2 meg split. #2 may be on rx 490mhz and TX on 495.2mhz Correction my #2 repeater link receiver is tuned to #1 output frequency (489.1mhz) .and transmitt on the #1 input frequency (483.9mhz). Yes each on my clients on the private have a separate ctcss frequency assigned to their radios for TX and rx so they can only hear their own cars. Thank You, Ian Wells, Kerinvale Comaudio, 361 Camboon Road.Biloela.4715 www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au ---Original Message--- From: Jim Brown Date: 5/01/2008 12:36:06 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking two shared repeaters I think I understand what you are saying Ian. Your #2 repeater has it's input frequency on the #1 repeater's output frequency. That way you would only require one extra receiver (on a third frequency) and precedence circuit at the #1 repeater site. The #2 site would have to have it's output on the third frequency to make it all work. I think you have simplified the system down to the minimum required hardware to make it work. CTCSS Transmitted only while an input is present would round out the system requirement. Your multi-user CTCSS controllers should keep things private as different users use the different tones. Sometimes thinking outside the box can make for a real worthwhile reduction in hardware. 73- Jim W5ZIT --- Kerincom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi again Jim With your thinking below .My remote private site should work in the same sort of way as what you are suggesting except while s2 has a signal on it it sends this signal to both s2 users and back to s1 repeater at the same time.In return the signal works the same as your first 3-5 lines below.I only require one link radio on the remote sites and not one at each end of the link .However with our open we have a separate link repeater paired with the s1 (explained better in my response to skip) so the link system works at the same time as the central site repeater.In the open system we don't link the TX frequencies directly from site to site .I.e.(s1tx to s2rx)(s2tx to s1rx) due to a error in frequency allocation,which will be fixed and which we expect to link directly with our private system as we wont get the sites frequencies licensed so close together next time Thank You, Ian Wells, Kerinvale Comaudio, 361 Camboon Road.Biloela.4715 www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au ---Original Message--- From: Jim Brown Date: 4/01/2008 8:25:48 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking two shared repeaters Ian, here is my thinking. When site 1 has a signal on the repeater input, the signal from site 2 is blocked because of the circuit that gives precedence to the local site repeater receiver. When a site 1 user unkeys, there will be no CTCSS tone coming
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking two shared repeaters
Thanks Jim .The main idea is that our business clients can have some extra range and also retain privacy so other users that share it carn't hear the other businesses on the channel.We only currently have 3 businesses that share the 1st site each with their own ctcss tones.With your second paragraph we found that having a separate link radio at each end could possibly cause continous linking of the sites and lock the repeaters together in transmission .With our open uhf network we have 5 separate repeaters each on different frequencies and all are linked back to our central site using only 1 link radio per remote site so everything that goes over any one of the sites can be heard by all users over the other 5 sites so our farmers can move freely from one area to another and still maintain communications with their other mobiles.Currently I think we cover close to 2000kms in total area We found setting these sites up that we can install one link radio at the remote sites with the transmitt frequency the same as the central site receive and the link receiver the same frequency as the central site transmitt frequency.Then the link radio acts as a mobile radio with a beam which is aimed towards the central site. With the tone panel on site 2 it will decode the ctcss when a user uses it and then repeat users tone over the site 2 TX frequency and also site1 rx input frequency .The only thing I have to make sure of is when someone uses site 1the site 2 receiver is disconnected and the ctcss/audio in site 2 is received on the link receiver only and then is fed into the tone panel to decode the users tone and then transferred to site 2 transmitter only and not to the link transmitter otherwise the link radio will switch to TX and block the incoming signal from site 1 With our other open network it is really simple when someone users the central site the link receiver on the outer sites transfers the audio direct to the remotes sites transmitter and then switches back to the remote sites receiver. The only difference between the open and our private/shared system is that the private system users a tone control panel to control the repeaters and since the tone control panels only work with valid ctcss tones the whole system should maintain privacy over each site and between the sites (over the link) Thank You, Ian Wells, Kerinvale Comaudio, 361 Camboon Road.Biloela.4715 www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au ---Original Message--- From: Jim Brown Date: 3/01/2008 4:02:13 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking two shared repeaters Ian, our ham club has talked about putting one of their repeaters on a different frequency and linking them together. We operate both on the same frequency now, one at a time with separate tones. My proposal to them was to put a receiver at each site for the other repeater and in-band link them. I think that is what you are proposing to do also, except you would use a separate transmitter to do the in-band link. Using a separate transmitter in your case may be more easily accomplished since you can use the same receiver CTCSS tone and transmit audio to both your repeater transmitter and link transmitter. Using a separate receiver as I proposed to our club would be easy for our single CTCSS system with each receiver feeding the controller input through a circuit which gives priority to the local repeater receiver. In your case, you could put your link transmitter on a separate beam pointed at the other site and let the normal tone controller take care of the other repeater. The only thing I would suggest is that you configure your controllers to only transmit the CTCSS while a user is key down, and not during any ID or squelch tail. With a decent link, you would have full interoperability with both systems, and no key up delays due to the other station being on the other repeater. I have not run across a two repeater system linked in this manner, but it does seem to be the easiest way to get the same audio on both repeaters. In your case, that may be a slight detrement since users on the second repeater would be prevented from using the repeater when the first repeater was busy. Using the receiver link I proposed would allow a station to use the second repeater by overriding the audio from the first repeater by simply keying the second repeater input. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- Kerincom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys .I have one shared uhf commercial repeater using a tp-163 panel and I am going to install another repeater on different frequencies 50kms away and are looking at installing a tp-163 ctcss panel to it but also looking for a easy way to link the two repeaters together allowing clients on one site to be able to use the same tone on both repeaters just by changing channel and still maintain the privacy on both sites . One option I came up with was on the 2nd site when someone uses it the panel detects their tone
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking two shared repeaters
Ian, I think you missed my comment on the way the extra receiver implementation would work. I proposed using a circuit that gives priority to the regular repeater receiver for that system. This would lock out the auxillary receiver during input on one repeater, and by transmitting CTCSS only while a user is active, there would never be a case where both auxillary receivers would be enabled, so that locking the two together continuously would not happen. I even have a custom circuit that I have posted to the group that provides that priority to one receiver. I still think it is a viable solution to linking two repeaters together, but I have not implemented it so can't be for certain sure. I'll be interested in your solution if and when you get it implemented. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- Kerincom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Jim .The main idea is that our business clients can have some extra range and also retain privacy so other users that share it carn't hear the other businesses on the channel.We only currently have 3 businesses that share the 1st site each with their own ctcss tones.With your second paragraph we found that having a separate link radio at each end could possibly cause continous linking of the sites and lock the repeaters together in transmission Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking two shared repeaters
Ian, here is my thinking. When site 1 has a signal on the repeater input, the signal from site 2 is blocked because of the circuit that gives precedence to the local site repeater receiver. When a site 1 user unkeys, there will be no CTCSS tone coming back from site 2 to key the site 1 repeater. The combination of the precedence circuit and CTCSS requirement for both repeaters keeps the system from locking up. The same circuit would be required between the receivers at site 2 as in site 1. And both repeaters would have to be configured to only transmit a CTCSS tone when a user keys the input, not during the squelch tail. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- Kerincom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I will have a look at the circuit and see .The problem we found with link setup 1 upper design is we could not have one link radio on one site and one on another site as when the site 2 link stops transmitting and rx site 1 tail retrips site 2 and keeps them on .Another problem was while s1 link in transmitting s2 receiver is trying to pick up the incoming signal and s1 link transmission at the same time . Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Linking two shared repeaters
Ian, our ham club has talked about putting one of their repeaters on a different frequency and linking them together. We operate both on the same frequency now, one at a time with separate tones. My proposal to them was to put a receiver at each site for the other repeater and in-band link them. I think that is what you are proposing to do also, except you would use a separate transmitter to do the in-band link. Using a separate transmitter in your case may be more easily accomplished since you can use the same receiver CTCSS tone and transmit audio to both your repeater transmitter and link transmitter. Using a separate receiver as I proposed to our club would be easy for our single CTCSS system with each receiver feeding the controller input through a circuit which gives priority to the local repeater receiver. In your case, you could put your link transmitter on a separate beam pointed at the other site and let the normal tone controller take care of the other repeater. The only thing I would suggest is that you configure your controllers to only transmit the CTCSS while a user is key down, and not during any ID or squelch tail. With a decent link, you would have full interoperability with both systems, and no key up delays due to the other station being on the other repeater. I have not run across a two repeater system linked in this manner, but it does seem to be the easiest way to get the same audio on both repeaters. In your case, that may be a slight detrement since users on the second repeater would be prevented from using the repeater when the first repeater was busy. Using the receiver link I proposed would allow a station to use the second repeater by overriding the audio from the first repeater by simply keying the second repeater input. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- Kerincom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys .I have one shared uhf commercial repeater using a tp-163 panel and I am going to install another repeater on different frequencies 50kms away and are looking at installing a tp-163 ctcss panel to it but also looking for a easy way to link the two repeaters together allowing clients on one site to be able to use the same tone on both repeaters just by changing channel and still maintain the privacy on both sites . One option I came up with was on the 2nd site when someone uses it the panel detects their tone and feeds site 2 audio/ctcss to the site2 transmitter and also a link radio to send it at the same time to site 1.When someone uses site1 ,a ctcss/audio signal is received by the link receiver which disconnects the link transmitter and also site2 receiver and the link rx ctcss/audio is then fed into the tone panel to decode and then is fed to site 2 transmitter . Link radio transmitter feeds site 1 rx frequency input Link radio receiver receives site 1 TX frequency output. Does anyone have any further suggestions or know of web pages detailing linking two or more shared repeaters Thank You, Ian Wells, Kerinvale Comaudio, 361 Camboon Road.Biloela.4715 www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
