[sage-devel] Re: Useful methods for graphics objects

[Kwankyu Lee]

>
> I have no idea what your argument is for the second part. Separations of 
> concerns means ...
>

I didn't use the phrase in its precise meaning (so I quoted it) 

I meant that you can write pythagorean formula, which is just what you need 
to compute the length of a line segment object,  without using Sage vectors 
and norms heavy machinery. For drawing, you only need simple maths. 
Moreover "Python only" seems necessary because of sage modularization 
effort.  

 

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: 9.7.beta8 build error jupyter_jsmol

[Kazuyoshi Furutaka]

It also happened to me on one of my system (fedora 36).

After removing yarnpkg rpm, it builds ok.

(will post the log later...)
Kazuyoshi


2022年8月25日(木) 1:28 Samuel Lelievre :

> Now tracked at
>
> - Sage Trac ticket #34421
>   Fix timeout in jupyter_jsmol installation
>   https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/34421
>
> (thanks Dima for opening the ticket).
>
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> 
> .
>

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[sage-devel] Re: If I run make twice in a row, shouldn't the second run be instant?

['Travis Scrimshaw' via sage-devel]

However, I don't think it should take 30 minutes, that seems far too long 
to me to check everything, even on a slow system. The longest part to me 
always seems to be checking the documentation part.

Samuel, how long does "make build" take for you?

Best,
Travis


On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 4:45:13 AM UTC+9 Matthias Koeppe wrote:

> Our build system does not know the precise dependence of sagelib on its 
> source files and other components. 
> To know if it needs to be rebuilt, we just invoke sagelib's build system. 
> This is akin to https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/29711
>
> Likewise for the docbuild: It kind of depends on source files and on the 
> built Sage library, but our build system does not know how it depends.
> So we just invoke the docbuild's build system and rely on its incremental 
> work to be as fast as it can be.
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 12:19:59 PM UTC-7 Samuel Lelievre wrote:
>
>> Dear sage-devel,
>>
>> Having built Sage successfully from source with the command
>> `make configure && make`, if I then immediately run `make`
>> a second time in the same shell session, shouldn't that second
>> run have nothing to build, and thus terminate almost instantly?
>>
>> Here is an example of building Sage successfully:
>>
>> ```
>> $ source .homebrew-build-env # recommended on macOS
>> $ make -s V=0 configure
>> $ make -s V=0
>>
>> ...
>>
>> [sage_conf-9.7.beta8] installing. Log file:
>> /opt/s/sage-9-7b8-fresh-clone/logs/pkgs/sage_conf-9.7.beta8.log
>> [sage_conf-9.7.beta8] successfully installed.
>> [sagelib-9.7.beta8] installing. Log file:
>> /opt/s/sage-9-7b8-fresh-clone/logs/pkgs/sagelib-9.7.beta8.log
>> [sagelib-9.7.beta8] successfully installed.
>> [sagemath_doc_html-none] installing. Log file:
>> /opt/s/sage-9-7b8-fresh-clone/logs/pkgs/sagemath_doc_html-none.log
>> [sagemath_doc_html-none] successfully installed.
>>
>> real 31m44.059s
>> user 23m35.949s
>> sys 4m3.652s
>> Sage build/upgrade complete!
>> ```
>>
>> Immediately after that, in the same session,
>> without having modified any file:
>>
>> ```
>> $ make -s V=0
>>
>> ...
>>
>> [sagelib-9.7.beta8] installing. Log file:
>> /opt/s/sage-9-7b8-fresh-clone/logs/pkgs/sagelib-9.7.beta8.log
>> [sagelib-9.7.beta8] successfully installed.
>> [sagemath_doc_html-none] installing. Log file:
>> /opt/s/sage-9-7b8-fresh-clone/logs/pkgs/sagemath_doc_html-none.log
>> [sagemath_doc_html-none] successfully installed.
>>
>> real 31m28.059s
>> user 22m3.713s
>> sys 4m12.429s
>> Sage build/upgrade complete!
>> ```
>>
>> I would have hoped for this to complete in a few seconds
>> and I find it surprising that it takes half an hour.
>>
>> Has that been reported and discussed already, either on
>> Sage Trac or on mailing lists?
>>
>> Doesn't that create problems for our Docker images?
>>
>> Apologies if I have already asked and forgotten, in which case
>> please refresh my memory. --Samuel
>>
>

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[sage-devel] Re: Useful methods for graphics objects

['Travis Scrimshaw' via sage-devel]

Yes we do, otherwise it doesn't make sense mathematically. There are lots 
of different metrics I can use on 2D vectors that make sense. Otherwise any 
(physical paper) maps would be very impractical. I think it is generally 
bad practice to assign mathematical significant things to classes that are 
not used for mathematical purposes.

I have no idea what your argument is for the second part. Separations of 
concerns means object A (in this case, an object for drawing something in 
3D) only does things that are meant for object A (drawing stuff) and not do 
things that are meant for object B (a vector or line segment in Euclidean 
space). It has nothing to do with what you use to actually do the 
implementation. If you are worried about linking together stuff that 
shouldn't be needed, that to me is a code smell.

Best,
Travis

On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 10:14:22 AM UTC+9 Kwankyu Lee wrote:

> On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 9:18:06 AM UTC+9 Travis Scrimshaw wrote:
>
>> Éric, what do you think about adding such things to SageManifolds? Could 
>> this be feasible?
>>
>
> It is embarrassing that  an idea of attaching ".length()" method to a line 
> segment graphics object leads to SageManifolds. We don't need vectors and 
> inner products to compute the length of a line segment.
>
> If we ever implement the idea, then it should be done with basic python 
> only for "separations-of-concerns" and for modularization of sage.
>
>  
>

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[sage-devel] Re: Trac only displaying some comments

['Travis Scrimshaw' via sage-devel]

Ah, I see. That fixed it. Thanks. I never knew about that as I never paid 
any attention to that box. it is annoying that changed on a Firefox 
update...Oh well.

Best,
Travis


On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 10:06:05 AM UTC+9 Matthias Koeppe wrote:

> Try the checkbox "Show property changes" on the ticket?
>
> On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 6:02:53 PM UTC-7 Travis Scrimshaw wrote:
>
>> I think this is something that has to do with more recent versions of 
>> Firefox, as I can see everything in Chrome, but I only see the changes to 
>> the ticket that have comments. So if someone, say, changes only the branch 
>> field or the milestone, I do not see these. Is there something that can be 
>> done to trac to fix this? This has been annoying me for a while now, but I 
>> am now tired to the wasted time working around it.
>>
>> Best,
>> Travis
>>
>>

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[sage-devel] Re: vscode pycodestyle linter

[davida...@gmail.com]

>  If you want to work on this, could you open at ticket please?

Of course! This is now: https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/34425 

Le mercredi 24 août 2022 à 16:56:07 UTC-4, Matthias Koeppe a écrit :

> It would make sense to configure it in the same way as we do in 
> src/tox.ini (see section testenv:pycodestyle-minimal). 
> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/blob/develop/src/tox.ini#L92
>
> If you want to work on this, could you open at ticket please?
>  
> On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 1:41:40 PM UTC-7 davida...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello everybody,
>>
>> Recently, the pycodestyle linter as been enabled by default in the vscode 
>> setting file (I think in the ticket #33739 
>> ). While I'm not opposed to this 
>> as it helps me following good coding conventions, many python files are now 
>> blood red of warnings, which I find a bit distracting. Here's an example 
>> among many others:
>>
>> [image: vscode.jpg]
>>
>> Many of those errors are E3 or E5 type. Of course I could deactivate the 
>> linter but this would change the file .vscode/setting.json which is 
>> included in the git repo so it's not ideal.
>>
>> I was wondering if there was a solution to this (maybe by tuning down the 
>> linter or simply ignore the setting file)? 
>>
>> David A.
>>
>

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[sage-devel] Re: vscode pycodestyle linter

[Matthias Koeppe]

It would make sense to configure it in the same way as we do in src/tox.ini 
(see section 
testenv:pycodestyle-minimal). 
https://github.com/sagemath/sage/blob/develop/src/tox.ini#L92

If you want to work on this, could you open at ticket please?
 
On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 1:41:40 PM UTC-7 davida...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hello everybody,
>
> Recently, the pycodestyle linter as been enabled by default in the vscode 
> setting file (I think in the ticket #33739 
> ). While I'm not opposed to this 
> as it helps me following good coding conventions, many python files are now 
> blood red of warnings, which I find a bit distracting. Here's an example 
> among many others:
>
> [image: vscode.jpg]
>
> Many of those errors are E3 or E5 type. Of course I could deactivate the 
> linter but this would change the file .vscode/setting.json which is 
> included in the git repo so it's not ideal.
>
> I was wondering if there was a solution to this (maybe by tuning down the 
> linter or simply ignore the setting file)? 
>
> David A.
>

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[sage-devel] Re: If I run make twice in a row, shouldn't the second run be instant?

[Matthias Koeppe]

Our build system does not know the precise dependence of sagelib on its 
source files and other components. 
To know if it needs to be rebuilt, we just invoke sagelib's build system. 
This is akin to https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/29711

Likewise for the docbuild: It kind of depends on source files and on the 
built Sage library, but our build system does not know how it depends.
So we just invoke the docbuild's build system and rely on its incremental 
work to be as fast as it can be.


On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 12:19:59 PM UTC-7 Samuel Lelievre wrote:

> Dear sage-devel,
>
> Having built Sage successfully from source with the command
> `make configure && make`, if I then immediately run `make`
> a second time in the same shell session, shouldn't that second
> run have nothing to build, and thus terminate almost instantly?
>
> Here is an example of building Sage successfully:
>
> ```
> $ source .homebrew-build-env # recommended on macOS
> $ make -s V=0 configure
> $ make -s V=0
>
> ...
>
> [sage_conf-9.7.beta8] installing. Log file:
> /opt/s/sage-9-7b8-fresh-clone/logs/pkgs/sage_conf-9.7.beta8.log
> [sage_conf-9.7.beta8] successfully installed.
> [sagelib-9.7.beta8] installing. Log file:
> /opt/s/sage-9-7b8-fresh-clone/logs/pkgs/sagelib-9.7.beta8.log
> [sagelib-9.7.beta8] successfully installed.
> [sagemath_doc_html-none] installing. Log file:
> /opt/s/sage-9-7b8-fresh-clone/logs/pkgs/sagemath_doc_html-none.log
> [sagemath_doc_html-none] successfully installed.
>
> real 31m44.059s
> user 23m35.949s
> sys 4m3.652s
> Sage build/upgrade complete!
> ```
>
> Immediately after that, in the same session,
> without having modified any file:
>
> ```
> $ make -s V=0
>
> ...
>
> [sagelib-9.7.beta8] installing. Log file:
> /opt/s/sage-9-7b8-fresh-clone/logs/pkgs/sagelib-9.7.beta8.log
> [sagelib-9.7.beta8] successfully installed.
> [sagemath_doc_html-none] installing. Log file:
> /opt/s/sage-9-7b8-fresh-clone/logs/pkgs/sagemath_doc_html-none.log
> [sagemath_doc_html-none] successfully installed.
>
> real 31m28.059s
> user 22m3.713s
> sys 4m12.429s
> Sage build/upgrade complete!
> ```
>
> I would have hoped for this to complete in a few seconds
> and I find it surprising that it takes half an hour.
>
> Has that been reported and discussed already, either on
> Sage Trac or on mailing lists?
>
> Doesn't that create problems for our Docker images?
>
> Apologies if I have already asked and forgotten, in which case
> please refresh my memory. --Samuel
>

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[sage-devel] Re: Useful methods for graphics objects

[Kwankyu Lee]

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 4:06:14 AM UTC+9 Sébastien Labbé wrote:

> Is there already a handy way to get the same result in Sage? 
>>
>
>> You can image other useful methods attached to a graphics object.
>>
>
> For 2d lines, it returns a Graphics object which has a length.
>

Right. That every graphics object (line, circle, etc) is wrapped in 
Graphics object seems to make the implementation not straightforward...
 

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[sage-devel] If I run make twice in a row, shouldn't the second run be instant?

[Samuel Lelièvre]

Dear sage-devel,

Having built Sage successfully from source with the command
`make configure && make`, if I then immediately run `make`
a second time in the same shell session, shouldn't that second
run have nothing to build, and thus terminate almost instantly?

Here is an example of building Sage successfully:

```
$ source .homebrew-build-env  # recommended on macOS
$ make -s V=0 configure
$ make -s V=0

...

[sage_conf-9.7.beta8] installing. Log file:
/opt/s/sage-9-7b8-fresh-clone/logs/pkgs/sage_conf-9.7.beta8.log
  [sage_conf-9.7.beta8] successfully installed.
[sagelib-9.7.beta8] installing. Log file:
/opt/s/sage-9-7b8-fresh-clone/logs/pkgs/sagelib-9.7.beta8.log
  [sagelib-9.7.beta8] successfully installed.
[sagemath_doc_html-none] installing. Log file:
/opt/s/sage-9-7b8-fresh-clone/logs/pkgs/sagemath_doc_html-none.log
  [sagemath_doc_html-none] successfully installed.

real31m44.059s
user23m35.949s
sys 4m3.652s
Sage build/upgrade complete!
```

Immediately after that, in the same session,
without having modified any file:

```
$ make -s V=0

...

[sagelib-9.7.beta8] installing. Log file:
/opt/s/sage-9-7b8-fresh-clone/logs/pkgs/sagelib-9.7.beta8.log
  [sagelib-9.7.beta8] successfully installed.
[sagemath_doc_html-none] installing. Log file:
/opt/s/sage-9-7b8-fresh-clone/logs/pkgs/sagemath_doc_html-none.log
  [sagemath_doc_html-none] successfully installed.

real31m28.059s
user22m3.713s
sys 4m12.429s
Sage build/upgrade complete!
```

I would have hoped for this to complete in a few seconds
and I find it surprising that it takes half an hour.

Has that been reported and discussed already, either on
Sage Trac or on mailing lists?

Doesn't that create problems for our Docker images?

Apologies if I have already asked and forgotten, in which case
please refresh my memory.   --Samuel

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[sage-devel] Re: Useful methods for graphics objects

[Sébastien Labbé]

> Is there already a handy way to get the same result in Sage? 
>

> You can image other useful methods attached to a graphics object.
>

For 2d lines, it returns a Graphics object which has a length: 

sage: l = line([(1,2),(10,20)])
sage: k = line([(10,20),(100,200)])
sage: len(l)
1
sage: len(k)
1

But currently, this length corresponds to the number of graphics primitives:

sage: repr(l+k)
'Graphics object consisting of 2 graphics primitives'
sage: len(l+k)
2


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Re: [sage-devel] Re: 9.7.beta8 build error jupyter_jsmol

[Samuel Lelievre]

Now tracked at

- Sage Trac ticket #34421
  Fix timeout in jupyter_jsmol installation
  https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/34421

(thanks Dima for opening the ticket).

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Re: [sage-devel] Trac #34152 needs you (to vote)!

[Vincent Delecroix]

hybrid > copy files > sage pseudo package

Vincent

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Re: [sage-devel] Trac #34152 needs you (to vote)!

[Dima Pasechnik]

My and djoyner votes are for
sage pseudopkg

Dima



On Wed, 24 Aug 2022, 00:38 François Bissey,  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/34152 needs help to decide what solution
> we implement going forward.
>
> The ticket is concerned with updating the bootstrap process by removing
> the current need for gettext and replacing it with gnulib (
> https://www.gnu.org/software/gnulib). gnulib is not a regular software
> library but a collection of bits and pieces to help portability across
> platforms.
>
> The issue at hand is how do we include and use gnulib in sagemath.
> Matthias Koeppe and Dima Pasechnik have been arguing for several weeks and
> across most of the ~250 comments of the ticket about the way to proceed. At
> some point it became clear that they would not agree and would need
> arbitration. This is what this post is about, I am inviting the sagemath
> community to weigh in and decide the issue.
>
> The ticket summary has been updated with summaries of the problem and of
> both options along with links to branches implementing them. I would not
> recommend diving in the comment section.
>
> There are 3 (three) options to choose from, one from Matthias, one from
> Dima and a hybrid approach they tried to create.
>
> -- copy files --
>
>- Follows approach 3 of the Gnulib manual section 'Integration with
>Version Control Systems'
>.
>- 5 files, in config/ and m4/, total 112 KB, have been imported by
>using `gnulib-tool import iconv`
> 
> and
>committed to the branch.
>- Matches our practice with imported files `m4/ax_*.m4`
> from
>autoconf-archive
>.
>Different from our practice with SPKGs because the files are needed to
>generate the configure script.
>- Introduces no new dependency.
>- Burden on a developer who authors an update ticket for these files:
>Obtain gnulib by cloning the repo, then re-run gnulib-tool import,
>remove unneeded files (that's where #29549
> went wrong), commit the
>changes. (Updates are expected to be necessary only very rarely.)
>- Burden on users and other developers: None.
>- dimpase's criticism of this approach: "gnulib's code is not Sage's
>code, it has no place in Sage git tree; this way, updating the imported
>gnulib files is tricky and error-prone by design".
>
> -- sage pseudo package --
>
>- Follows approach 2(C) of the Gnulib manual section 'Integration with
>Version Control Systems'
>,
>but instead of using Gnulib's Programs for developing in Git checkouts
>
> ,
>implements its own script (making checkout much faster, as full gnulib 
> checkout
>is 250 MB).
>- Introduces a new (although one can't really do Sage development
>without git installed) dependency on git and on availability of
>internet connection at the first run of ./bootstrap in a tree, to pull
>83 MB (fair to say that internet is needed for Sage development a lot,
>anyway).
>- Burden on a developer who authors an update ticket for these files:
>Edit the bootstrap file to change the commit hash, verify that the
>list of files removed by make bootstrap-clean is still correct, commit
>this change
>- Burden on other users: a pseudo-package needs to be installed once
>(and updated, automatically)
>- mkoeppe's criticism of this approach: "Having bootstrap operate a
>multi-megabyte git clone (on the 1st install and when there's a change of
>the gnulib commit hash) in the upstream/ directory increases
>complexity for no benefit."
>
> -- hybrid --
>
>- Resolves the criticism on the "copy files" approach: "updating the
>imported gnulib files" is now assisted by the spkg-src script (adapted
>from dimpase's branch)
>- Resolves the criticism on the "Sage pseudo-package" approach:
>"operate a multi-megabyte git clone (on the 1st install and when there's a
>change of the gnulib commit hash)" is only done by authors of tickets that
>update gnulib, not by general users of bootstrap.
>
> Vote is open now and will close - tentatively - on the 29th of August at
> 12pm New Zealand time [my time zone] when I will do the tally. If no option
> gets a majority, the voting period may be extended by a few days.
> Please vote!
> [ ] copy files
> [ ] sage pseudo package
> [ ] hybrid
>
>
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Trac #34152 needs you (to vote)!

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Wed, 24 Aug 2022, 03:49 Nils Bruin,  wrote:

> hybrid.
>
> [it provides an immediate solution to an urgent problem *and* it provides
> a reasonably automated path for updating. It does indeed put some files
> under sage git control that shouldn't be, but compared to the urgency of
> the problem at the moment, that's minor.
>
> It looks to me that avoiding the git control problem requires there to be
> a tarball to point at if we don't want to insist on git as a prereq for
> building from source.
>
Since that tarball does not exist, we'd need to make it. We did that in the
> past for nearly all the spkgs. We'd basically need to have a separate repo
> somewhere "gnulib-for-sagemath" that maintains a tool to extract and
> package the required files for sagemath in an appropriate package and then
> host that resulting package (a tarball, I presume) somewhere. We'd just
> make a derivative of gnulib that DOES have tarball releases. On itself,
> that sounds like it could have merit, but one would weigh that against the
> cost. On the plus side: once the tarball is up, it would likely not change
> for *many* years. Only when we run into trouble would one have to pull the
> lever to generate a new release.
>

we can of course do this, in sagemath org on github. We don't need to do
anything to gnulib source.
It is very little work - just put a gnulib clone there and make a (GitHub)
release.

Updating it is just refreshing the GitHub fork, and making a new Github
release.



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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Trac #34152 needs you (to vote)!

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Wed, 24 Aug 2022, 01:43 Matthias Koeppe, 
wrote:

> On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 5:34:01 PM UTC-7 Travis Scrimshaw wrote:
>
>> I also fully agree with Dima that gnulib has no business being in Sage's
>> git tree
>>
>
> This is a mischaracterization. None of the approaches puts "gnulib in the
> Sage git tree". I recommend to read the discussion on the ticket.
>
Not the whole gnulib, yet
only sage pseudo package solution does not inject parts of gnulib into Sage
git tree (the other two do inject about 100K of gnulib)



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